[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[DarinM]

The MTB will have a threadless steerer (didn’t specify diameter) and 73mm BB 
shell according to yesterday’s blahg. I love the way Grant casually drops these 
details.

Darin

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

He'll kill me for bringing it up again, but I can't see going to threadless and 
73mm, then still stopping short of discs. The people want the little discs, man!

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Ryan Merrill]

I’m a disc fan, but if I can still get quality rims/wheels and use modern MTB 
tires I can definitely use rim brakes. V brakes work pretty well, and cantis do 
if i get over the initial setup frustrations I seem to always have with them.  
I look forward to an MTB Riv...excited about it, actually. 

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

What MTB advantage(s), threadless headset and 72mm bb?

With abandon,
Patrick (who would be interested but for verticle dropouts, which is 
surmountable but not at a price I can do in the near future having blown my wad 
on the HunqaBeam)

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

Threadless: Easier adjustment on the trail, conversely offset by being less 
likely to go out of adjustment on the trail. 

73mm: Wider shell for modern mtb cranks which clear wider tires. 

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

*Clears wider STAYS for wider tires. My bad!

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Steven Sweedler]

Has the wheel size been announced, 650 B for smaller frames and 700C for
larger, or is 26” (559) a possiblilty? Steve

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:28 PM Grant Petersen  wrote:

> aside from whatever real or imagined benefits there are to riders, the
> benefits of carbon and threadless to manufacturers are real and as concrete
> as concrete. Threadless forks eliminate a HUGE ongoing hassle and storage
> problem of stocking replacements for different sized frames. The fact that
> it helps manufacturers is a GOOD thing, but *that* is why they were so
> wholly instantly adopted. Going to carbon fiber piggybacked on that by
> offering a perceived cool-factor fork that flaunted its material and saved
> bike manufacturers from having to stock color-matches for their bikes every
> year. A third benefit to manufacturers is that forks are a PITA to make.
> There isn't a frame builder in the world who likes making forks (I have not
> surveyed them all, I've just never heard of one, and the fact that so many
> offer carbon forks as standard supports this "theory.")  Forks are
> difficult and intolerant of even slight goofs. If a frame is slightly out
> of alignment, you'll never know by casual observation (need measuring
> tools) and it probably won't matter in the ride. (Our frames are aligned
> during the process of building and checked at the end, and I've watched
> them do it.)  It depends where it's out of alignment, but if you think most
> of the bikes in the world are perfectly aligned, o my.   But when a fork is
> out of alignment, it's way more visually obvious, because the tire gap is
> different.
> Any one of the points I'm trying to make--I'm making them quickly and
> without any nuance or noting other important details in the discussion--but
> they're honestly fundamentally true. Our Taiwan frame builders farm out the
> forks. Artisinal custom builders for the most part prefer to (I know there
> are exceptions).
> It's easy-er for me here at RIvendell with our relatively low volume to
> stock crash replacement forks forks, but even when we order two extra per
> size per color, as models and colors change, it doesn't take too many years
> to accumulate 200 forks. At Bstone, we had --- thousands? At least a
> thousand. We tossed them when we closed. I think one of the guys gathered
> up some MB forks and maybe a few RBs, but basically, they were vamooshed.
> There's no market for a Regulus brown fork for a 23-inch frame, or any of
> the others.
>
> I'm not picking on masmojo. He (or she?) is right--that stuff can work
> fine. It's when it doesn't that things get scary, and when you consider
> that carbon doesn't age well, there's still a good reason to avoid it.
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:26 AM, masmojo  wrote:
>
>> I certainly don't endorse change for the sake of change, but if something
>> works,  it's better or solves a problem; I'll embrace it eventually, maybe
>> begrudgingly, but I will & my enthusiasm & conviction will grow from there.
>> I guess about the time I turned 50, I reaffirmed my conviction to keep my
>> mind open & question any preferences or prejudices I might have.
>> Didn't like Carbon fiber,  but as these things go, most road bikes these
>> days have Carbon Fiber forks; so it was kind of forced on me. (I also got
>> carbon fiber cranks & handlebars in the deal🙄) Well, guess what? They work
>> fine, better than fine really. Will, I make a point  of buying CF in the
>> future? Hmm,  I doubt it, but my resistance has been weakened.
>> Just sayin, there's a reason for everything.
>>
>
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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Jeremy Till]

This might be a stretch, but hey, what's the fun in following a guru if you 
can't spend hours parsing his words and interpreting them?  I think there 
might be a hint towards an upcoming trail-oriented Riv (or update to an 
existing Riv) hidden in this passage from Grant's post yesterday 

: 

In mountain bike racing and just riding, it's gone the other way. The early 
> guys were riding unsuitably low-tech bikes, then bikes reached a basic good 
> level of appropriate technology in the late '80s, and now they've borrowed 
> as much as possible—for now—from cars and motorcycles. There are reactions 
> to it the other way, with one-speed mountain bikes, but those are fading 
> fast because...one gear is too limiting for varied terrain. *There's no 
> restraint at that end, and we're going to show 'em all what-for sometime 
> late this year, if we can pull it off.*


I wonder what it could be...the before-hinted plus-tire Hunqapillar?  
Bringing back the Bombadil (probably can't be done under the LOTR gag 
order)?  Some other new trail-oriented rig?

Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with my Jones-barred Clem as my MTB 
(well...a threadless fork would be nice), so I'm not anxiously awaiting 
anything, but it would be interesting to see what they come up with.  

Let the speculation begin! 

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

I predict a plus-tire MIT Hunqa with disc brakes because I want one and will 
buy it. Yeah!

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[iamkeith]

Whoa, hadn't read this yet, but seems like more than a 'hint.'  I've been 
telling myself that with a pending purchase of the new Atlantis, I would own 
all the Rivendells (if not bikes) that I'd ever need.  But that assumed "making 
due" with my too-big-frame but just-right-700c Clem. I think I'd better budget 
carefully and keep my discretionary bike spending in check until I hear what 
this is about.

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[EasyRider]

My guess is a MIT 1x MB-1ish 27.5 plus Riv. A slightly higher bb. Grant has 
said that if you need bigger than 2 inch tire to get a pugsley and a dozen 
years the reader mentioned that bike favorably. Hard to imagine a Riv fatbike 
though ... discs and all.

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Drw]

I spoke to will maybe a year ago, and he said the plus hunq was happening but 
it’d be over a year before anything happened for real. Its about that time now 
and then you factor in inevitable delays my money is on plus hunq.

Which I think is a great, great idea. 

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Bill Eberle in Columbus, Ohio]

What??? A 27.5+ Hunqadiscer (or Diacapillar)? Here, take my money 💰💰💰.

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

Don't get your hopes up, Bill. I'm trying to talk Grant into it (via this 
forum), but I'm not sure I'm the most convincing salesman ("Oh good, Joe has 
another idea!).

I need to get my new Crust Lightning Bolt over there and send him down the road 
on it: "These tires, these brakes, but it looks and rides like a Rivendell. 
Build it and they will come." :-)

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Mastodon.

You're welcome,
Eamon in Seattle

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Jacob]

https://www.rivbike.com/pages/graphics

A few answers to a few questions concerning the decals.

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Lum Gim Fong]

“Sir” is decidedly un-American. Smacks of knighthoods and feudal Europe.

I don’t like the human names either. But if we are gonna do human names,
I vote for “Bubbie Hurwitz”.

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Lum Gim Fong]

or Barry Kalmen

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Lum Gim Fong]

Non-human names:

Rivendell Juggernaut

If that is too serious sounding then:

Alfalfa Banjo

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Philip Williamson]

“Brand or model names shouldn't sound like inside jokes thought up over beer & 
pizza.”
Oops.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

I guess my name for the new bike, Rockbobber, is outta the question then..

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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

Joe, you have a lot of equity to burn thru before murder comes to mine, so
no worries there. There are lots of bikes with disc brakes, and I know I
run the small considerable risk of being accused of being stubborn or
hurting Rivendell or being a dinosaur and all that, but I just love the
high visible actuation beauty and function of rim brakes. So...duly noted
your opinion, but it ain't going anywhere. We're not neeeding to do a
mountain bike at all, but if we do it (it seems we will, but not 100
percent yet) it won't be diluted or woke or anything. I want to be able to
take some stands without risking offending existing disc brake fans, etc.
I'm not the world's expert, I'm just trying to make a line of bikes that
tie together in certain ways. Our reach and market or whatever is small, so
we don't have to please the whole world. I would not be surprised if you
got one of these, though.

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> He'll kill me for bringing it up again, but I can't see going to
> threadless and 73mm, then still stopping short of discs. The people want
> the little discs, man!
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

"...before murder comes to MIND..."
Let's not start a thread with "murder" in it, OK?

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 9:52 PM, Grant Petersen  wrote:

> Joe, you have a lot of equity to burn thru before murder comes to mine, so
> no worries there. There are lots of bikes with disc brakes, and I know I
> run the small considerable risk of being accused of being stubborn or
> hurting Rivendell or being a dinosaur and all that, but I just love the
> high visible actuation beauty and function of rim brakes. So...duly noted
> your opinion, but it ain't going anywhere. We're not neeeding to do a
> mountain bike at all, but if we do it (it seems we will, but not 100
> percent yet) it won't be diluted or woke or anything. I want to be able to
> take some stands without risking offending existing disc brake fans, etc.
> I'm not the world's expert, I'm just trying to make a line of bikes that
> tie together in certain ways. Our reach and market or whatever is small, so
> we don't have to please the whole world. I would not be surprised if you
> got one of these, though.
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> He'll kill me for bringing it up again, but I can't see going to
>> threadless and 73mm, then still stopping short of discs. The people want
>> the little discs, man!
>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

"I would not be surprised if you got one of these, though."

Oh the chances are extremely high, my friend. I'll take one with those spiffy 
Shimano DXR v-brakes!

Joe "too old to woke" Bernard
Novato CA. 

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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

Btw, Swan Arcade would be an AWESOME name for a bike. 

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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Eric Floden]

Likely not workable but a fun name would be Corto Maltese. Thinking
sailor-adventurer from 1900 to 1920s

EricF
Peterborough ON

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corto_Maltese

On 22 July 2018 at 01:55, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Btw, Swan Arcade would be an AWESOME name for a bike.
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

Theoretically easier to adjust with the tools you're likely to have with
you on a trail, but a few weeks ago I took a poll at work, and it revealed
that in more than 100 years of cumulative riding on dirt and roads, nobody
has ever had a threaded headset come loose. It can happen, but probably
won't. We "went threadless" only because we wanted riders to be able to
swap parts from existing bikes (stems, bars--if 31.8 to match the stem).
Rather than having to buy the bars and stems from us. WHich--we'll have a
good assortment, but still.
The 73 shell, yes, so you can have a fatty tire not riding too close to the
chain. It's not a big problem with 68, but now and then when you're going
down a bouncy trail, the chain will flop into the tire and the tire will
drag it down toward the chainstay and won't let go until you stop. It
sounds worse than it is. You're going down the trail, and all of a sudden
it sounds like you've picked up the mother of all leaves, but the bike
still goes.
Also, if you want to use a single-ring crank and external bb, those are
optimized for 73mm shells.
The debate was: 73mm shells and threadless, or Carbon Fiber and shocks, and
the right ones won!

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Threadless: Easier adjustment on the trail, conversely offset by being
> less likely to go out of adjustment on the trail.
>
> 73mm: Wider shell for modern mtb cranks which clear wider tires.
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

To be clear (I wasn't), I was trying to answer Patrick the Deacon's questions 
from the perspective of how that stuff got to be on mountain bikes as the niche 
developed, not specifically why Riv is doing it now. 

I've had plenty of threaded headsets come loose over the years, but never a Riv 
headset over 15 years of owning/riding them, and I used to ride some gnarly 
singletrack at China Camp, Marin County on my Romulus. 

Joe "also too old to say gnarly" Bernard
Novato CA. 

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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

SML 27.5
XL 29


On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Steven Sweedler 
wrote:

>
> Has the wheel size been announced, 650 B for smaller frames and 700C for
> larger, or is 26” (559) a possiblilty? Steve
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:28 PM Grant Petersen 
> wrote:
>
>> aside from whatever real or imagined benefits there are to riders, the
>> benefits of carbon and threadless to manufacturers are real and as concrete
>> as concrete. Threadless forks eliminate a HUGE ongoing hassle and storage
>> problem of stocking replacements for different sized frames. The fact that
>> it helps manufacturers is a GOOD thing, but *that* is why they were so
>> wholly instantly adopted. Going to carbon fiber piggybacked on that by
>> offering a perceived cool-factor fork that flaunted its material and saved
>> bike manufacturers from having to stock color-matches for their bikes every
>> year. A third benefit to manufacturers is that forks are a PITA to make.
>> There isn't a frame builder in the world who likes making forks (I have not
>> surveyed them all, I've just never heard of one, and the fact that so many
>> offer carbon forks as standard supports this "theory.")  Forks are
>> difficult and intolerant of even slight goofs. If a frame is slightly out
>> of alignment, you'll never know by casual observation (need measuring
>> tools) and it probably won't matter in the ride. (Our frames are aligned
>> during the process of building and checked at the end, and I've watched
>> them do it.)  It depends where it's out of alignment, but if you think most
>> of the bikes in the world are perfectly aligned, o my.   But when a fork is
>> out of alignment, it's way more visually obvious, because the tire gap is
>> different.
>> Any one of the points I'm trying to make--I'm making them quickly and
>> without any nuance or noting other important details in the discussion--but
>> they're honestly fundamentally true. Our Taiwan frame builders farm out the
>> forks. Artisinal custom builders for the most part prefer to (I know there
>> are exceptions).
>> It's easy-er for me here at RIvendell with our relatively low volume to
>> stock crash replacement forks forks, but even when we order two extra per
>> size per color, as models and colors change, it doesn't take too many years
>> to accumulate 200 forks. At Bstone, we had --- thousands? At least a
>> thousand. We tossed them when we closed. I think one of the guys gathered
>> up some MB forks and maybe a few RBs, but basically, they were vamooshed.
>> There's no market for a Regulus brown fork for a 23-inch frame, or any of
>> the others.
>>
>> I'm not picking on masmojo. He (or she?) is right--that stuff can work
>> fine. It's when it doesn't that things get scary, and when you consider
>> that carbon doesn't age well, there's still a good reason to avoid it.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:26 AM, masmojo  wrote:
>>
>>> I certainly don't endorse change for the sake of change, but if
>>> something works,  it's better or solves a problem; I'll embrace it
>>> eventually, maybe begrudgingly, but I will & my enthusiasm & conviction
>>> will grow from there.
>>> I guess about the time I turned 50, I reaffirmed my conviction to keep
>>> my mind open & question any preferences or prejudices I might have.
>>> Didn't like Carbon fiber,  but as these things go, most road bikes these
>>> days have Carbon Fiber forks; so it was kind of forced on me. (I also got
>>> carbon fiber cranks & handlebars in the deal🙄) Well, guess what? They work
>>> fine, better than fine really. Will, I make a point  of buying CF in the
>>> future? Hmm,  I doubt it, but my resistance has been weakened.
>>> Just sayin, there's a reason for everything.
>>>
>>
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> Plymouth, New Hampshire
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Kainalu V.]

XL as in huge? Or xl as in big. Is there a PBH cap in mind? 
Thanks 
-Kai 
BKNY (though currently in Utah, wishing I had a huge mountain bike on hand)

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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Eric Daume]

Making a special rim just to use rim brakes with plus tires seems, I dunno,
deliberately retro. It would make your replacement parts very hard to find,
for what advantage? I’ve never had to replace a disc caliper due to
failure, while I have had to replace rims.

The again, once down this path, what’s next? Thru axles?

Eric

On Friday, May 4, 2018, Jeremy Till  wrote:

> I actually wouldn't be surprised if a plus-tired Riv used canti brakes.
> V-brakes have an absolute tire clearance limit based on their arm length,
> and I think most v-brakes, especially the Shimano ones that Rivendell uses,
> wouldn't be able to clear a 3-inch tire.  You may be able to do it with
> something like the long-arm v-brakes that are spec'ed on the rim brake Yuba
> Mundo cargo bikes, but you'd be pretty limited in your component choice.
> Cantilever brakes have a bit more flexibility since you can adjust straddle
> length, especially if you can find those extra-wide straddle hangers that
> are intended to increase tire clearance.  Then, as others have pointed out,
> your only problem would be finding rims with brake tracks wide enough to
> properly fit a 3" tire.
>
> Back when Riv tested out the Surly Pugsley, they used cantilever brakes
> (and drop bars!) on their build, since the first-gen Pugsley frames and
> Large Marge rims were rim brake compatible.
>
> As to Bill's speculation about spec'ing a 9/8" threadless steerer a la the
> tandem, if that's the case, I'm going to be sorely tempted by this beast.
>
>
> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:39:21 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Eh, Riv was canti over v-brakes back in the day, too..now it's v-brakes
>> over discs. I'm holding out hope for cable discs over hydros ;-)
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

Oh don't even get me started on thru axles! Now that I have one on the front of 
my Crust I wonder why we ever messed with those ridiculous quick-releases made 
slow by lawyer lips. Slide the wheel into the forks, slam the axle through, 
grab that wrench and thread it into the right-side fork end. Easy, safe, I like 
it 👍

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