Re: [RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-09-02 Thread Brewster Fong 

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 3:12:02 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 09/01/2015 06:09 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote: 
> > I have ver little experience with V brakes, but as long as they don't 
> > crowd the fender I can't see why they wouldn't work as well as 
> > traditional cantis. 
>
> Don't most V brakes have a cable pull incompatibility with road bike 
> brake levers and integrated brake/shift levers like SIS, DoubleTap & Ergo? 
>
 
Yes, "regular v-brakes" (i.e., 90mm or more length arms) are designed to 
work with levers that have a longer pull. However, the "mini-v" (i.e., 84mm 
or so length arms) works works well with integrated shifters.  On my old 
cross bike, I had a pair of crappy Suntour xc pro canti brakes with Campy 
ergo shifters. No matter what I did, I just couldn't keep the front brake 
from shuddering, squealing and vibrating. It was so bad that I could easy 
see my fork vibrating as I was braking, it was terrible!  Even when 
adjusted, it would last like a day or so and then back to the racket!  
 
Then I tried a cheapie $20 Tektro 926al mini-v on just the front and wow, 
night and day!  No more shuddering, squealing or vibrating!  
The braking was as good as my road bikes that have single pivot brakes.  
I gave away the suntour and am now a big believer in mini-v brakes for road 
levers.  
 
Good Luck! 
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-09-01 Thread Mark Reimer 
I can also lift my rear wheel off the ground on my CX bike with neo-retros,
though it takes some doing. I have a high straddle cable for mud clearance
and optimal straddle cable angle. The touring cant's have a lower straddle,
same brake pads on both sets. I've always found the touring canti's to stop
me much faster and have better modulation.

When it comes to the physics of it, I usually defer to this article, which
says it all much better than I can:

http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/canti-geometry.pdf

And this one, for great photos of examples:
http://www.blackmtncycles.com/2013/03/get-most-out-of-your-canit-brake.html

All this does make me curious to try lowering my neo-retro straddle cable
for increased mechanical advantage. My experience mimics how the first
linked article describes a straddle cable which is too high - feels great
at the lever, but doesn't have as much stopping power as you'd hope for.
I'll try lowering it a bit and see if I can increase my stopping power.

Either way, I love Paul canti's and canti's in general. But I still affirm
that the next time I do loaded touring in the mountains and I'm coming down
at 75km/h on a 90lb bike, in the rain maybe, I want v-brakes or discs.

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> Mark, I'm disinclined to dispute someones personal experience, but yours
> doesn't match mine. I wonder if your experience comes from set up.  The
> neos want a hi straddle cable and the touring a very low one. This makes
> sense to me from my, admittedly limited, knowledge of Newtonian Physics. I
> have never used the touring cantis but have had a pair of neos on a pair of
> singles for many years.  They can easily lift my rear wheel off the ground
> and stop my bike in short order.
>
> In addition the Paul's site says this about the neos:
>
> These are very powerful brakes and have a tendency to over power thin
> tubed frames (in any material). For none-  too-stout frames and forks
> we recommend our Touring Canti 
> .
>
> And this about the touring canti:
>
> The Touring Canti is a powerful cantilever brake with a similar design to
> the Neo-Retro , but
> with the arms angled upward. This gives the brake a much narrower profile
> without significantly reducing stopping power.
>
> I'm 71, and together the tandem team is 140, so we are not thrill
> seekers.  We ride the hills of Vt unloaded quite successfully with
> theRacers on our tandem and tour in gentler terrain with the tandem fully
> loaded.  I'm looking for increased tire clearance w/out any loss of power.
>
> Peace,
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:15:22 AM UTC-4, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>
>> No way Neo Retro's on a tandem in my opinion. I have the neo-retros on my
>> CX bike and the touring canit's on my Atlantis. The touring canti's have
>> substantially more stopping power than the neo retros. However, they still
>> aren't anywhere near what I'd consider safe when descending a steep
>> hill/mountain with a heavy load, particularly in the rain.
>>
>> Mini motos would have tons more stopping power than the canti's, but
>> fender clearance would be the bit challenge as the cable is quite low. As
>> was mentioned, the moto-lite's would ensure you can use basically any tire
>> you want (with a fender) and have the most stopping power of any Paul
>> brake. Just need to have a long-pull brake lever.
>>
>> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>>>
>>> Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look
>>> very good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender
>>> however as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to
>>> other Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP
>>> mini-vs instead.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-09-01 Thread Matthew J 
> Don't most V brakes have a cable pull incompatibility with road bike 
> brake levers and integrated brake/shift levers like SIS, DoubleTap & 
Ergo? 

Many do not work well with modern road bike levers.*  Certainly the 
Motolites would prove touchy.  Mini-Moto's and the TRP Mini-Vs do work.

*Just goofing around a few years back I paired Motolites to vintage Campy 
non-aero levers which seemed to pull the Pauls just fine.  Maybe an 
engineer here understands the design difference from then and now?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-09-01 Thread Steve Palincsar 


On 09/01/2015 06:09 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
I have ver little experience with V brakes, but as long as they don't 
crowd the fender I can't see why they wouldn't work as well as 
traditional cantis. 


Don't most V brakes have a cable pull incompatibility with road bike 
brake levers and integrated brake/shift levers like SIS, DoubleTap & Ergo?



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Re: [RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-09-01 Thread Michael Hechmer 
Mark, as I wrote in my last post, I never dispute someones personal 
experience.  If you feel you are getting better braking out of the low 
profile brake, stay with it.

I don't have the energy now to wade through the mathematics of the first 
article you linked, but the second one clearly makes my point, the straddle 
wire wants to be 90o to the brake arm, hence hi profile wants hi straddle 
and low profile wants low straddle.  

Disks and V brakes were originally designed for mountain bikes and although 
they may work well on tandems and touring bikes, that is not their design 
goal.  Disks have a reputation for overheating and warping on tandems.  I 
have ver little experience with V brakes, but as long as they don't crowd 
the fender I can't see why they wouldn't work as well as traditional 
cantis.  I guess what we agree on here is how well Pauls brakes work.

Michael



On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 1:50:01 PM UTC-4, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> I can also lift my rear wheel off the ground on my CX bike with 
> neo-retros, though it takes some doing. I have a high straddle cable for 
> mud clearance and optimal straddle cable angle. The touring cant's have a 
> lower straddle, same brake pads on both sets. I've always found the touring 
> canti's to stop me much faster and have better modulation. 
>
> When it comes to the physics of it, I usually defer to this article, which 
> says it all much better than I can:
>
> http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/canti-geometry.pdf
>
> And this one, for great photos of examples: 
> http://www.blackmtncycles.com/2013/03/get-most-out-of-your-canit-brake.html
>
> All this does make me curious to try lowering my neo-retro straddle cable 
> for increased mechanical advantage. My experience mimics how the first 
> linked article describes a straddle cable which is too high - feels great 
> at the lever, but doesn't have as much stopping power as you'd hope for. 
> I'll try lowering it a bit and see if I can increase my stopping power.
>
> Either way, I love Paul canti's and canti's in general. But I still affirm 
> that the next time I do loaded touring in the mountains and I'm coming down 
> at 75km/h on a 90lb bike, in the rain maybe, I want v-brakes or discs.
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Michael Hechmer  > wrote:
>
>> Mark, I'm disinclined to dispute someones personal experience, but yours 
>> doesn't match mine. I wonder if your experience comes from set up.  The 
>> neos want a hi straddle cable and the touring a very low one. This makes 
>> sense to me from my, admittedly limited, knowledge of Newtonian Physics. I 
>> have never used the touring cantis but have had a pair of neos on a pair of 
>> singles for many years.  They can easily lift my rear wheel off the ground 
>> and stop my bike in short order.
>>
>> In addition the Paul's site says this about the neos:
>>
>> These are very powerful brakes and have a tendency to over power thin 
>> tubed frames (in any material). For none-  too-stout frames and forks 
>> we recommend our Touring Canti 
>> .
>>
>> And this about the touring canti:
>>
>> The Touring Canti is a powerful cantilever brake with a similar design to 
>> the Neo-Retro , but 
>> with the arms angled upward. This gives the brake a much narrower profile 
>> without significantly reducing stopping power. 
>>
>> I'm 71, and together the tandem team is 140, so we are not thrill 
>> seekers.  We ride the hills of Vt unloaded quite successfully with 
>> theRacers on our tandem and tour in gentler terrain with the tandem fully 
>> loaded.  I'm looking for increased tire clearance w/out any loss of power.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:15:22 AM UTC-4, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>>
>>> No way Neo Retro's on a tandem in my opinion. I have the neo-retros on 
>>> my CX bike and the touring canit's on my Atlantis. The touring canti's have 
>>> substantially more stopping power than the neo retros. However, they still 
>>> aren't anywhere near what I'd consider safe when descending a steep 
>>> hill/mountain with a heavy load, particularly in the rain. 
>>>
>>> Mini motos would have tons more stopping power than the canti's, but 
>>> fender clearance would be the bit challenge as the cable is quite low. As 
>>> was mentioned, the moto-lite's would ensure you can use basically any tire 
>>> you want (with a fender) and have the most stopping power of any Paul 
>>> brake. Just need to have a long-pull brake lever.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:

 Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look 
 very good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender 
 however as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to 
 other Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP

[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Justin August 
If the Moto-lites are out due to levers and not wanting to use a travel 
agent, you could always cut a slit in the fender to allow the Mini-Moto to 
have it's wire there. The Mini-Moto will definitely open wider than the 
Racer, since you can easily unhook the noodle. 

-J

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 7:15:22 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> No way Neo Retro's on a tandem in my opinion. I have the neo-retros on my 
> CX bike and the touring canit's on my Atlantis. The touring canti's have 
> substantially more stopping power than the neo retros. However, they still 
> aren't anywhere near what I'd consider safe when descending a steep 
> hill/mountain with a heavy load, particularly in the rain. 
>
> Mini motos would have tons more stopping power than the canti's, but 
> fender clearance would be the bit challenge as the cable is quite low. As 
> was mentioned, the moto-lite's would ensure you can use basically any tire 
> you want (with a fender) and have the most stopping power of any Paul 
> brake. Just need to have a long-pull brake lever.
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>>
>> Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look 
>> very good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender 
>> however as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to 
>> other Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP 
>> mini-vs instead.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread David Person 
If you went to a V brake that required a long pull brake lever or the use 
of Travel Agents (TA) I would avoid the TA's.  I tried them and did not 
like them at all.  The brake action did not feel smooth at all with them 
installed.  

David

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 5:08:14 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I have decide to get our tandem repainted over the winter and as part of 
> that am considering moving from the Paul's Racer (studded) brakes to either 
> Mini Motos or  Neo Retros.  I want to  increase brake clearance from the 
> 38MM w/fenders of the ctr pulls, which otherwise are great brakes.  I have 
> lots of experience and love my Neo-Retros but no experience with V brakes. 
>  Can  someone help me understand a bit about steup/stability of the 
> mini-moto and the braking power vs either good CP or the neo retros?
>
> Braking on a tandem is rather different than a single.  On the one hand 
> you have twice the mass and on the other hand the rear wheel has much less 
> tendency to lift and therefore more braking power.
>
> Thanks, Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Tony DeFilippo 
Interesting thread to me!  I've got a Burley canti-braked tandem and a pair 
of Moto-Lite brakes I've been considering trying.  Actually the wait has 
been getting the 700C from 27" wheel conversion, 38mm tire install and 
fender install complete to make sure I retain enough clearance...

I'm only missing the fender install but they are in the garage now to so 
I'm about out of excuses...  I'll need to re-run cable housing/replace the 
cable housing of course which is a pain and I'll need to get some 
appropriate levers.  I'll try to move it up on the priority list so I can 
give you some feedback Michael!

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread T.O.M. 
Here's another option (Canti's) from Rodriguez Cycles: 
http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/bigsqueeze.html  Seem to have lots of 
fender clearance and perhaps allow  use of your current levers.  We've not 
tried them thus can not provide any opinion on their effectiveness. 

Our non-Riv-type tandem runs BB7 disc brakes, they're great.  Do have the 
Moto Lites that we briefly used on the tandem's OE wheels while we were 
sorting out rim failures with the disc brake wheels. The Moto's performed 
quite well while they were on; wet or dry conditions.  Much better than the 
(Tektro?) OE V-Brakes the bike came with. Must say though, we don't run 
fenders or do any loaded touring. YMMV

T.O.M. (The Other Manny)

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 5:08:14 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:

> I have decide to get our tandem repainted over the winter and as part of 
> that am considering moving from the Paul's Racer (studded) brakes to either 
> Mini Motos or  Neo Retros.  I want to  increase brake clearance from the 
> 38MM w/fenders of the ctr pulls, which otherwise 
> ...
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Julian 
Interesting. I've heard good things about Paul cantilevers, but is there 
something about the Paul cantilever designs that is problematic for tandem 
use, or are you saying you feel cantilevers in general are not tandem 
suitable? 

I run cantilevers (vintage Suntour XC Pros) on a custom 650b Bilenky tandem 
and have great stopping power -- we're a big team (I'm 6'7, 240 lbs, my 
stoker is small, 5'3", 110 lbs) but have no issues with those in normal 
use. We do have a drum brake we add for loaded self-supported tent-camping 
touring with a trailer, but cantilevers alone are fine when unloaded -- not 
only here in flat IL, but in trips in Western PA and in CO. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 9:15:22 AM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> No way Neo Retro's on a tandem in my opinion. I have the neo-retros on my 
> CX bike and the touring canit's on my Atlantis. The touring canti's have 
> substantially more stopping power than the neo retros. However, they still 
> aren't anywhere near what I'd consider safe when descending a steep 
> hill/mountain with a heavy load, particularly in the rain. 
>
> Mini motos would have tons more stopping power than the canti's, but 
> fender clearance would be the bit challenge as the cable is quite low. As 
> was mentioned, the moto-lite's would ensure you can use basically any tire 
> you want (with a fender) and have the most stopping power of any Paul 
> brake. Just need to have a long-pull brake lever.
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>>
>> Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look 
>> very good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender 
>> however as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to 
>> other Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP 
>> mini-vs instead.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Michael Hechmer 
Mark, I'm disinclined to dispute someones personal experience, but yours 
doesn't match mine. I wonder if your experience comes from set up.  The 
neos want a hi straddle cable and the touring a very low one. This makes 
sense to me from my, admittedly limited, knowledge of Newtonian Physics. I 
have never used the touring cantis but have had a pair of neos on a pair of 
singles for many years.  They can easily lift my rear wheel off the ground 
and stop my bike in short order.

In addition the Paul's site says this about the neos:

These are very powerful brakes and have a tendency to over power thin tubed 
frames (in any material). For none-  too-stout frames and forks we 
recommend our Touring Canti .

And this about the touring canti:

The Touring Canti is a powerful cantilever brake with a similar design to 
the Neo-Retro , but with 
the arms angled upward. This gives the brake a much narrower profile 
without significantly reducing stopping power. 

I'm 71, and together the tandem team is 140, so we are not thrill seekers. 
 We ride the hills of Vt unloaded quite successfully with theRacers on our 
tandem and tour in gentler terrain with the tandem fully loaded.  I'm 
looking for increased tire clearance w/out any loss of power.

Peace,
Michael




On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:15:22 AM UTC-4, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> No way Neo Retro's on a tandem in my opinion. I have the neo-retros on my 
> CX bike and the touring canit's on my Atlantis. The touring canti's have 
> substantially more stopping power than the neo retros. However, they still 
> aren't anywhere near what I'd consider safe when descending a steep 
> hill/mountain with a heavy load, particularly in the rain. 
>
> Mini motos would have tons more stopping power than the canti's, but 
> fender clearance would be the bit challenge as the cable is quite low. As 
> was mentioned, the moto-lite's would ensure you can use basically any tire 
> you want (with a fender) and have the most stopping power of any Paul 
> brake. Just need to have a long-pull brake lever.
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>>
>> Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look 
>> very good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender 
>> however as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to 
>> other Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP 
>> mini-vs instead.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Michael Hechmer 
Thanks Manny.  I owe my life to Paul's and that is my default position, but 
the Rodriguez design is very interesting and their overall comparison of V 
brakes, disk brakes, and cantis rings true for me.  Except for the part 
about ease of setup.  I have found some cantis really easy and some to be 
nightmarishly difficult.  I suppose if you work in a shop you get past 
that.  I'll need to ponder this.

Michael

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 6:19:35 PM UTC-4, T.O.M. wrote:
>
> Here's another option (Canti's) from Rodriguez Cycles: 
> http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/bigsqueeze.html  Seem to have lots of 
> fender clearance and perhaps allow  use of your current levers.  We've not 
> tried them thus can not provide any opinion on their effectiveness. 
>
> Our non-Riv-type tandem runs BB7 disc brakes, they're great.  Do have the 
> Moto Lites that we briefly used on the tandem's OE wheels while we were 
> sorting out rim failures with the disc brake wheels. The Moto's performed 
> quite well while they were on; wet or dry conditions.  Much better than the 
> (Tektro?) OE V-Brakes the bike came with. Must say though, we don't run 
> fenders or do any loaded touring. YMMV
>
> T.O.M. (The Other Manny)
>
> On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 5:08:14 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
>> I have decide to get our tandem repainted over the winter and as part of 
>> that am considering moving from the Paul's Racer (studded) brakes to either 
>> Mini Motos or  Neo Retros.  I want to  increase brake clearance from the 
>> 38MM w/fenders of the ctr pulls, which otherwise 
>> ...
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Michael Hechmer 
The Racers open just enough to clear our 26x1.5 Marathon Racers, which are 
near the end of life.  Those brakes have a 55mm opening at the top but I 
have managed to get 60 mm metal fenders under them by dropping them down a 
bit.  I want to go to the Compass 1.75 tire w/out having to deflate the 
tires to remove the wheel.  I think you are saying the Mini Ms will work 
but not as well as the Retros.  I don't want to change levers as I really 
like my Tecktros.

Michael

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 8:49:16 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>
> I don't think that the Mini-Moto will gain you much clearance, 
> realistically. Mud clearance, yes. Stopping power, perhaps. For more 
> clearance you'd be better off with the Moto-lites or the more traditional 
> cantis. However, with the Moto-lites you'd have to get the correct pull 
> levers.
>
> I personally LOVE the Mini-Moto and if I got another bike with canti 
> posts, I'd use them in a heartbeat if they cleared the tires. I had them on 
> my SimpleOne and they cleared Nomad Resist 700x45 tires. No fenders, 
> probably could have fit with some rubbing of the wire.
>
> -J
>
> On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 5:08:14 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> I have decide to get our tandem repainted over the winter and as part of 
>> that am considering moving from the Paul's Racer (studded) brakes to either 
>> Mini Motos or  Neo Retros.  I want to  increase brake clearance from the 
>> 38MM w/fenders of the ctr pulls, which otherwise are great brakes.  I have 
>> lots of experience and love my Neo-Retros but no experience with V brakes. 
>>  Can  someone help me understand a bit about steup/stability of the 
>> mini-moto and the braking power vs either good CP or the neo retros?
>>
>> Braking on a tandem is rather different than a single.  On the one hand 
>> you have twice the mass and on the other hand the rear wheel has much less 
>> tendency to lift and therefore more braking power.
>>
>> Thanks, Michael
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Mark Reimer 
No way Neo Retro's on a tandem in my opinion. I have the neo-retros on my 
CX bike and the touring canit's on my Atlantis. The touring canti's have 
substantially more stopping power than the neo retros. However, they still 
aren't anywhere near what I'd consider safe when descending a steep 
hill/mountain with a heavy load, particularly in the rain. 

Mini motos would have tons more stopping power than the canti's, but fender 
clearance would be the bit challenge as the cable is quite low. As was 
mentioned, the moto-lite's would ensure you can use basically any tire you 
want (with a fender) and have the most stopping power of any Paul brake. 
Just need to have a long-pull brake lever.

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>
> Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look very 
> good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender however 
> as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to other 
> Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP mini-vs 
> instead.
>

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-31 Thread Matthew J 
Mini-Motos have excellent stopping power, are easy to set up and look very 
good.  I was not able to get the front brake to work over a fender however 
as the cable between the two sides is relatively low compared to other 
Mini-Motos.  I did not want to use cantis so wound up using TRP mini-vs 
instead.

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[RBW] Re: Almost OT, Mini Moto vs Neo Retro

2015-08-30 Thread Justin August 
I don't think that the Mini-Moto will gain you much clearance, 
realistically. Mud clearance, yes. Stopping power, perhaps. For more 
clearance you'd be better off with the Moto-lites or the more traditional 
cantis. However, with the Moto-lites you'd have to get the correct pull 
levers.

I personally LOVE the Mini-Moto and if I got another bike with canti posts, 
I'd use them in a heartbeat if they cleared the tires. I had them on my 
SimpleOne and they cleared Nomad Resist 700x45 tires. No fenders, probably 
could have fit with some rubbing of the wire.

-J

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 5:08:14 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:

 I have decide to get our tandem repainted over the winter and as part of 
 that am considering moving from the Paul's Racer (studded) brakes to either 
 Mini Motos or  Neo Retros.  I want to  increase brake clearance from the 
 38MM w/fenders of the ctr pulls, which otherwise are great brakes.  I have 
 lots of experience and love my Neo-Retros but no experience with V brakes. 
  Can  someone help me understand a bit about steup/stability of the 
 mini-moto and the braking power vs either good CP or the neo retros?

 Braking on a tandem is rather different than a single.  On the one hand 
 you have twice the mass and on the other hand the rear wheel has much less 
 tendency to lift and therefore more braking power.

 Thanks, Michael


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