[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Last night I dropped off my significant other at her end-of-the- accelerated nursing program party on the University of Penn's campus in Philly.I pulled over into the dropoff lane (a real lane) and let her out. as I was about to pull out, I look into my sideview mirror to check if everything's clear, see nothing, start to go then SLAM on the brakes. In all of that nothing there was a cyclist. Riding a black bike. With black pants, black hoodie, black basket, black bag, black hat, black scarf and black helmet. The only bit of illumination this rider had in a crowded urban area with tons of traffic was an anemic RED blinky on the front of their bike that had all of the illumination output to make me think the batteries needed changed 3 years ago. As a multimodal commuter in Philly - I live in West Philly and ride or drive to my job teaching 2nd graders 3 miles away in deeper West Philly - I am constantly astonished at how many folks on bikes are not lit up. It's incredibly irresponsible to do so. The cyclist last night could have been killed, easily, by myself or several other drivers. Who's fault would it have been? The driver dutifully checking their mirrors or the cyclist riding in all black at night without adequate illumination? Frustrating. On Dec 11, 10:22 pm, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: my point was intended to question the notions floating in this thread about right/wrong, intentional/accidental that seem grounded in a sort of strange sort of positivism grown from tired traffic laws based in patently false traffic engineering theory. i don't own a car, and i think most don't need to, but i am not car-bagging with that comment. it's easy enough to demonstrably show the ethics behind mode choice, and easy enough to ignore or justify action beyond the demands of science. at the end of the day, i think: go drive a bike for awhile, it'll help. erik On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-12-11 at 18:55 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: motorists are always putting everyone else in harms way, diminishing quality of life, contributing to health problems and increased mortality, making everyone subsidize their actions through state and federal taxes, necessitating wars in foreign countries for oil field security, impelling oil-spill catastrophes in the seas, encouraging rampant urban-sprawl development policies, contributing heavily to localized air pollution, decreasing agricultural yields, reducing atmospheric visibility, aggravating global climate instability, creating noise pollution, and leaving behind 7 billion pounds of unrecycled scrap annually, without consideration at all for their actions. Enough already. This list is not supposed to be about car-hating. There are other places for those sentiments. Take it over there, please. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Amen... On Dec 12, 9:49 am, Justin August justinaug...@gmail.com wrote: Last night I dropped off my significant other at her end-of-the- accelerated nursing program party on the University of Penn's campus in Philly.I pulled over into the dropoff lane (a real lane) and let her out. as I was about to pull out, I look into my sideview mirror to check if everything's clear, see nothing, start to go then SLAM on the brakes. In all of that nothing there was a cyclist. Riding a black bike. With black pants, black hoodie, black basket, black bag, black hat, black scarf and black helmet. The only bit of illumination this rider had in a crowded urban area with tons of traffic was an anemic RED blinky on the front of their bike that had all of the illumination output to make me think the batteries needed changed 3 years ago. As a multimodal commuter in Philly - I live in West Philly and ride or drive to my job teaching 2nd graders 3 miles away in deeper West Philly - I am constantly astonished at how many folks on bikes are not lit up. It's incredibly irresponsible to do so. The cyclist last night could have been killed, easily, by myself or several other drivers. Who's fault would it have been? The driver dutifully checking their mirrors or the cyclist riding in all black at night without adequate illumination? Frustrating. On Dec 11, 10:22 pm, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: my point was intended to question the notions floating in this thread about right/wrong, intentional/accidental that seem grounded in a sort of strange sort of positivism grown from tired traffic laws based in patently false traffic engineering theory. i don't own a car, and i think most don't need to, but i am not car-bagging with that comment. it's easy enough to demonstrably show the ethics behind mode choice, and easy enough to ignore or justify action beyond the demands of science. at the end of the day, i think: go drive a bike for awhile, it'll help. erik On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-12-11 at 18:55 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: motorists are always putting everyone else in harms way, diminishing quality of life, contributing to health problems and increased mortality, making everyone subsidize their actions through state and federal taxes, necessitating wars in foreign countries for oil field security, impelling oil-spill catastrophes in the seas, encouraging rampant urban-sprawl development policies, contributing heavily to localized air pollution, decreasing agricultural yields, reducing atmospheric visibility, aggravating global climate instability, creating noise pollution, and leaving behind 7 billion pounds of unrecycled scrap annually, without consideration at all for their actions. Enough already. This list is not supposed to be about car-hating. There are other places for those sentiments. Take it over there, please. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Ray provided a link to the reflective Triangle that Rivendell sells. When I'm commuting in the dark, I always use multiple LED lights and reflective things. When I was riding home from work in the dark last year my wife drove buy me on our street. She first saw the LED lights (Planet Bike Super Flash and CatEye LD-1100), then she saw the reflective triangle, both well before she saw me. I try and light up to the stupid level...if someone hits me they are going to look stupid explaining to the police that they didn't see me. Stay safe. Angus On Dec 10, 4:54 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/back-off-triangle/31-460 From: newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 12:15:36 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary? Ray, you didn't answer the second part of the question: What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business? ... And let's not forget wildlife. I assume deer, moose and racoon should be responsible for acquiring and using their own battery- powered hi-viz gear. I guess for pets, the onus is on the cat and dog owners to adorn them in electric-light vests. Lest the blame for their deaths be on them. Just to be clear I think wearing this stuff is smarty-pants to the nines... my beef is with how the blame 'sharing' is apportioned sometimes. On Dec 10, 2:50 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Yes. newenglandbike wrote: What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
My own short way of thinking about it is I am invisible. My bikes have one or two tail lights, a couple of headlights. Usually wear a reflective vest and my bags have reflecting areas on them. With the way drivers generally react, am still totally and completely invisible. There are limits to when and how I'll ride. Right now we are in a winter storm/blizzard. Probably will not go for a ride today. Probably. Also, when the temps are well below zero, usually will not ride. At that point, mechanical failure seems to be more common. I can be fairly unlucky that way. Will also admit to being a total chicken. However, have been known in the past to not wear a helmet in terrible conditions. Mainly as my headgear of choice is a Columbia bomber hat that I've owned since 1982 and still keeps me warm. But will not fit under any helmet. For Rivendell content - this is the time of year where I won't take my Sam Hillborne outside. Unfortunately for it, the bike is relegated to trainer duty for a second year. Am actually trying studded tires on my two other bikes and they will share winter duties. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Dec 11, 6:25 am, Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Ray provided a link to the reflective Triangle that Rivendell sells. When I'm commuting in the dark, I always use multiple LED lights and reflective things. When I was riding home from work in the dark last year my wife drove buy me on our street. She first saw the LED lights (Planet Bike Super Flash and CatEye LD-1100), then she saw the reflective triangle, both well before she saw me. I try and light up to the stupid level...if someone hits me they are going to look stupid explaining to the police that they didn't see me. Stay safe. Angus -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Actually this was much better than karaoke... I had a great dinner at the pub and enjoyed 3 great beers, including one of my favorites, Ommegang Rare Vos... I was looking forward to a nice ride home, so I started up the canal path, when I encountered a veritable mob of cyclists (with blinding lights), heading the opposite way... I knew a few of these lads, and realized they were several miles into their annual 60 mile night ride to Trenton and back... Like a scene out of Doctor Zhivago, when the Bolsheviks force Yuri (on his way to town) to join up with them... I was forced to join the mob 40 miles and several hours later I had ridden into Princeton, then down to Trenton and back along the DR Canal. (I called my son at home from the streets of Trenton and told him This is Dad... I'm in Trenton, I'm on my bike, I'm OK... tell Mom I'm with a group of bikers, and not to worry, I'll be home very late) Temps were in the 20s, but there was no wind and skies were clear... PERFECT for night-riding. (And I have to say, I felt so comfortable and relaxed on my Bombadil for the entire ride, even more than most of the other riders, many who were complaining of aches and sore butts from riding their cross bikes, mountain bikes, etc...) At first, a few looked at me like I was nuts, riding this big (and comparatively heavy) bike with baskets and racks, wearing jeans and street shoes... By the end of the night they were asking WHAT kind of bike is that?... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 4:52 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: 3 and I'm singing old Bread tunes on the Karaoke machine. For all our sakes we definitely hope you stick with 2! On Dec 10, 3:24 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: You give me WAY too much credit, friend... I'm a cheap date. 2 pints is my max... 3 and I'm singing old Bread tunes on the Karaoke machine. But either way, I ALWAYS ride in control, thank you. Peace, BB On Dec 10, 4:13 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The biggest sacrifice from the big BobbyB will be if he forgoes pint number 11 in the interest of keeping his head about him. We'll see if he can take his convictions that far On Dec 10, 12:38 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: It's a shared responsibility, period... AND a matter of common sense. We debate this topic ad nauseum within the cycling community in my home state of NJ, in terms of who has what rights, and who has accountability... Although I'd much rather be cycling than driving, I spend far more time as a motorist than as a cyclist, so my take on this issue: AS A CYCLIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from being mowed down, so I try to stack the odds in my favor by any and all means necessary. That includes riding where there are fewest cars. One of the great things about riding a Riv, I can take sidewalks, paths, alleyways with rough surface... I don't have to stick to the car routes. But when that's impractical and I'm forced to ride with traffic I make sure I can be clearly seen and that I stay out of the way of motorists, regardless of what I perceive my rights as a cyclist to be. I don't care about whether I'm right; I just care about not getting hit. I say ride defensively in every way possible AS A MOTORIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from hitting another motorist, a cyclist, pedestrian, deer, etc., so again, it's a matter of stacking the odds in my favor, like slowing down, and maybe being aware of the stretches of road where people, deer, and ninja-clad-stealth-night-riders all lurk. It comes down to this: If you allow yourself to fall into a situation where someone else's misjudgment, compounded with your own misjudgment creates conditions that are ripe for an accident, it's time to rethink your role in that equation. I say drive defensively in every way possible. Tonight I'll be driving home from the office and then riding my bike to my favorite pub... First, (thanks to this enlightening conversation) I'll take my time driving home. Then before I hop on my Riv, I'll trade my jacket with the reflectorized bands for my wife's blazing DOT vest (she's an EMT)... No such thing as overkill... just gotta stack those odds... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
That is complete garbage to suggest a driver be responsible for not hitting you no matter how dark or unlit up you are. Law should and does in some places require lights. Just because you get run over by a car doesn't make you a victim. The person that hits the idiot that ran the stop or didn't bother to use lights or swerves in front of them have to live with it. Accidents happen as well. There is stupidity on the bike and in the car.. and no matter what you do .. you can't fix stupid! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
nope, wrong. yes you follow the law, but if you run into a car without its lights on from behind you're still partly liable. you have eyes, powerful headlights, and an obligation to drive at a reasonable speed for conditions such that you can brake for *anything* in the road adequately. what is more troubling is the degree of legal positivism embodied by your post, whereas i believe traffic laws should cater more readily to the capricious nature of the bicycle (as the dutch say) and the notion that streets are not gutters and arteries for the ready circulation of physical capital. never an excuse to hit a cyclist or pedestrian, period. cheers, erik On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: That is complete garbage to suggest a driver be responsible for not hitting you no matter how dark or unlit up you are. Law should and does in some places require lights. Just because you get run over by a car doesn't make you a victim. The person that hits the idiot that ran the stop or didn't bother to use lights or swerves in front of them have to live with it. Accidents happen as well. There is stupidity on the bike and in the car.. and no matter what you do .. you can't fix stupid! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Erik wrote: never an excuse to hit a cyclist or pedestrian, period. Hogwash! If a motorist does not have sufficient time and distance to avoid a collision, then there is a very legitimate excuse for colliding with a cyclist. I don't know where Erik rides, but in my city -- a very pro-cyclist city -- cyclists are always putting themselves in harms way, and without consideration at all for their actions. I see it on a daily basis while commuting to and from downtown on my bike. Bike messenger are the worst. Erik's notion of capricious cyclist --the they-have-to-look-out-for-me, I-don't-have-to-look-out-for-them just sounds exceedingly self-centered as well as fundamentally foolish. Of course I believe cyclists have every right to use the roadway, but they also must be reasonable and responsible when doing so. It also never hurts to be thoughtful and considerate. For the most part (in my opinion), cyclists are not. Ray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
nope, wrong. yes you follow the law, but if you run into a car without its lights on from behind you're still partly liable. you have eyes, powerful headlights, and an obligation to drive at a reasonable speed for conditions such that you can brake for anything in the road adequately. To many variables.. what open city street with street lights.. agreed... dark state 2 lane hwy at night nope.. the guy in the car driving disabled down the hiway without lilghts should be cited with criminal neglect and endagerment of the public. Pull the vehical off the side and out of the way. never an excuse to hit a cyclist or pedestrian, period. Except when the pedestrian is jay walking - jumps off a bridge in front of you etc... and a cyclist is NOT a pedestrian.. it is another motorist. Another motorist who does not deserve more protection than any other motorist or any less. Given the right circumstances it will happen to any driver.. and if you are a cyclist .. a farm tractor .. or a skunk.. you're going to get hit. Like the pedestrian jumping off the bridge, if you are traversing a windy hilly 45mph two lane road at night with no lights.. expect to get hit... the jury will treat the accident as though you jumped off the bridge.. In the end regardless of how legal it could be, is or should be.. being right isn't all that ... from the grave. No one else should be punished for you bad decisions either. Good luck getting that 20 mph world wide speed limit that will make that no excuse plausible. Just saying.. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
motorists are always putting everyone else in harms way, diminishing quality of life, contributing to health problems and increased mortality, making everyone subsidize their actions through state and federal taxes, necessitating wars in foreign countries for oil field security, impelling oil-spill catastrophes in the seas, encouraging rampant urban-sprawl development policies, contributing heavily to localized air pollution, decreasing agricultural yields, reducing atmospheric visibility, aggravating global climate instability, creating noise pollution, and leaving behind 7 billion pounds of unrecycled scrap annually, without consideration at all for their actions. FYP :) On Dec 11, 8:46 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Hogwash! If a motorist does not have sufficient time and distance to avoid a collision, then there is a very legitimate excuse for colliding with a cyclist. I don't know where Erik rides, but in my city -- a very pro-cyclist city -- cyclists are always putting themselves in harms way, and without consideration at all for their actions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
On Sat, 2010-12-11 at 18:55 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: motorists are always putting everyone else in harms way, diminishing quality of life, contributing to health problems and increased mortality, making everyone subsidize their actions through state and federal taxes, necessitating wars in foreign countries for oil field security, impelling oil-spill catastrophes in the seas, encouraging rampant urban-sprawl development policies, contributing heavily to localized air pollution, decreasing agricultural yields, reducing atmospheric visibility, aggravating global climate instability, creating noise pollution, and leaving behind 7 billion pounds of unrecycled scrap annually, without consideration at all for their actions. Enough already. This list is not supposed to be about car-hating. There are other places for those sentiments. Take it over there, please. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
my point was intended to question the notions floating in this thread about right/wrong, intentional/accidental that seem grounded in a sort of strange sort of positivism grown from tired traffic laws based in patently false traffic engineering theory. i don't own a car, and i think most don't need to, but i am not car-bagging with that comment. it's easy enough to demonstrably show the ethics behind mode choice, and easy enough to ignore or justify action beyond the demands of science. at the end of the day, i think: go drive a bike for awhile, it'll help. erik On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-12-11 at 18:55 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: motorists are always putting everyone else in harms way, diminishing quality of life, contributing to health problems and increased mortality, making everyone subsidize their actions through state and federal taxes, necessitating wars in foreign countries for oil field security, impelling oil-spill catastrophes in the seas, encouraging rampant urban-sprawl development policies, contributing heavily to localized air pollution, decreasing agricultural yields, reducing atmospheric visibility, aggravating global climate instability, creating noise pollution, and leaving behind 7 billion pounds of unrecycled scrap annually, without consideration at all for their actions. Enough already. This list is not supposed to be about car-hating. There are other places for those sentiments. Take it over there, please. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
I do not have a car, so am often tempted to ride the bike when and where conditions are less than optimal. Over the years I have had enough close calls that when things get really bad I either take mass transit, a taxi, walk or stay put. I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. On Dec 10, 7:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Joel, Couldn't agree more. Fortunately, having quality lights, fenders, tires etc making riding in sub-optimal (but not hideous) conditions quite fun. There is a certain satisfaction with adapting to the elements, and appetite for that sort of challenge varies widely among riders. And it blows my mind when I see people riding in the dark without decent lights or reflective clothes, etc... that's just stupid. On Dec 10, 8:13 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
I'm in the same situation, w/no car. but, it's 16 miles to work with no public transportation available, and I don't want to take a taxi.Of course now it's dark when I leave at night.I use reflective gear and lights, and it's all back roads, and it would not be dangerous at all if it weren't for all the damn cars, most of which are speeding. yes, I am a self-righteous car hater. This summer's catastrophe (now all but forgotten by the public) in the gulf of mexico in particular threw a switch in me.personally, I like riding in the cold. OK this morning's 11F was a bit nipple-y but if you dress smart it's no different than riding a bike. On Dec 10, 8:13 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I do not have a car, so am often tempted to ride the bike when and where conditions are less than optimal. Over the years I have had enough close calls that when things get really bad I either take mass transit, a taxi, walk or stay put. I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. On Dec 10, 7:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
11F, Congrats. This northeast cold snap is too sudden for me. I don't even know where my balaclava is right now. On Dec 10, 9:16 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I'm in the same situation, w/no car. but, it's 16 miles to work with no public transportation available, and I don't want to take a taxi. Of course now it's dark when I leave at night. I use reflective gear and lights, and it's all back roads, and it would not be dangerous at all if it weren't for all the damn cars, most of which are speeding. yes, I am a self-righteous car hater. This summer's catastrophe (now all but forgotten by the public) in the gulf of mexico in particular threw a switch in me. personally, I like riding in the cold. OK this morning's 11F was a bit nipple-y but if you dress smart it's no different than riding a bike. On Dec 10, 8:13 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I do not have a car, so am often tempted to ride the bike when and where conditions are less than optimal. Over the years I have had enough close calls that when things get really bad I either take mass transit, a taxi, walk or stay put. I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. On Dec 10, 7:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Cold is tolerable. I have ridden in sub-zero temps. Like the rest of you, I use very bright (BM and Schmidt) lights. The heavy wet snows we frequently get in Chicago are what get me off the bike. To much snow shrinks the streets and impacts stop and turning - mine and the cars. Almost as bad, Chicago likes to achieve critical mass with the road salt. I have to spend 20 minutes cleaning the bike on my cold back porch before taking it into my apartment. On Dec 10, 8:16 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I'm in the same situation, w/no car. but, it's 16 miles to work with no public transportation available, and I don't want to take a taxi. Of course now it's dark when I leave at night. I use reflective gear and lights, and it's all back roads, and it would not be dangerous at all if it weren't for all the damn cars, most of which are speeding. yes, I am a self-righteous car hater. This summer's catastrophe (now all but forgotten by the public) in the gulf of mexico in particular threw a switch in me. personally, I like riding in the cold. OK this morning's 11F was a bit nipple-y but if you dress smart it's no different than riding a bike. On Dec 10, 8:13 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I do not have a car, so am often tempted to ride the bike when and where conditions are less than optimal. Over the years I have had enough close calls that when things get really bad I either take mass transit, a taxi, walk or stay put. I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. On Dec 10, 7:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Yeah, Boston also seems to shoot for this 'critical mass' of salt, although I can't say if it's as bad as Chicago. On Dec 10, 9:57 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Almost as bad, Chicago likes to achieve critical mass with the road salt. I have to spend 20 minutes cleaning the bike on my cold back porch before taking it into my apartment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
I can remember about 12 or so years ago sitting in my living room on a cold and icy night in the winter in Missoula. I saw bike whiz by the busy street outside--no lights, no reflective gear, no helmet. Plenty of ice and snow on the street. I thought and then said to my wife: there's Darwin at work again. On Dec 10, 8:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
I have great admiration for all of you who can ride in those kinds of conditions. But, I do feel that safety has to always be an over riding consideration. best, JimP Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 05:13:26 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary? From: joelmatth...@mac.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com I do not have a car, so am often tempted to ride the bike when and where conditions are less than optimal. Over the years I have had enough close calls that when things get really bad I either take mass transit, a taxi, walk or stay put. I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. On Dec 10, 7:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Interesting you bring this up. I have commuted to work by bike Monday through Thursday in the dark and wet, I work hard to be visible (ligths fore and aft, yellow reflective rain slicker, helmet light etc..) and am astounded by the number of cyclist who ride after dark with little or no lighting and dark clothing, I nearly ran into a guy on the bike path last night because he was basically invisible until he was 15 feet from me. Ironically after arriving home last night - soaked for the 3rd night in a row- on a bike with lots of creaks and groans, I decided ENOUGH! tomorrow I am riding the bus and this weekend I dry dock? the bike for some TLC. So of course its relatively nice and definitely dry out today ;-). My own rule of the thumb, requested by my wife, is to avoid riding if its wet out and under 40 degrees. Ok people in the Midwest and East can laugh but here in mild Seattle its often wet and even at 40 degrees painted road lines, grates etc can get incredibly slick. And the amount of time that both conditions apply is a fairly small portion of the year. I do wish that more people who ride at night had the sensibility/ awareness/courtesy to make themselves more visible. I feel horrible for the family of the cyclist and the motorist for the accident described above. Will lights and vests and reflective clothing make us all 100% safe, of course not, but IMHO doing without is just courting disaster. Ride Safe fellow Velos R On Dec 10, 6:08 am, jim phillips thefamil...@hotmail.com wrote: I have great admiration for all of you who can ride in those kinds of conditions. But, I do feel that safety has to always be an over riding consideration. best, JimP Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 05:13:26 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary? From: joelmatth...@mac.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com I do not have a car, so am often tempted to ride the bike when and where conditions are less than optimal. Over the years I have had enough close calls that when things get really bad I either take mass transit, a taxi, walk or stay put. I want to enjoy cycling, not endure. On Dec 10, 7:00 am, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. I'm 6 miles down the road to the nearest shops and services. Sunset, this time of year is around 4:30 and until the big lakes freeze over, the weather tends to be cloudy and snowy. With the moon in its last quarter its very dark, very early. It has snowed slowly and steadily through the week, leaving about 15 of snow cover and the road shoulders with an inch or two of packed and loose snow. The skies started to clear a bit yesterday and the temps dropped , +14 at sundown and -10 by sunrise this morning. I headed into town at 5:00, in my car and drove down an unlit country road, passing a nearly steady stream of commuters headed home up the road. Suddenly I saw a very bright bicycle light coming up the road. As I passed him (her?) I saw that the tail light was just avg. My first thought was, wow that takes some guts, but my second thought was that's more risk than I would ever want to take on a bicycle, and my third thought was I don't mind riding in the dark; I don't mind riding in the cold; and I don't mind riding in the wet. But that much cold, dark, wet and risk all at the same time is something I wouldn't choose to do, unless it was absolutely necessary. What do you think? Michael on a gloriously beautiful morning -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Also, don't forget to light yourself up like a christmas tree when you walk your dog, so the guy in the 3000 lb. 50mph deth machine, on his way to buys scratch-tickets at 7-11, can see you. Sorry, I can't help myself. I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? How about not traveling at speeds that make it impossible to react to objects in your path!? Let's face it: Roads and parking lots are *everywhere* in this land. Fact: there is not a place in the lower 48 that is not within 22 miles of a road.You have to cross them or use them to get anywhere, period. This means that when you drive a car, no matter how carefully, you are either endangering people who want to travel _without_ the use of a car, or forcing them not to travel. It makes sense to me, then, that you should have the responsibility of NOT hitting a person in the road, whether they are equipped with lights or not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Yes. newenglandbike wrote: What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. Point of order, point of order! The Cascadia contingent would like to clarify that the only states intersecting the 45th parallel east of the Great Lakes are New Hampshire and Maine. Carry on, :-) -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Ray, you didn't answer the second part of the question: What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business? ... And let's not forget wildlife.I assume deer, moose and racoon should be responsible for acquiring and using their own battery- powered hi-viz gear.I guess for pets, the onus is on the cat and dog owners to adorn them in electric-light vests. Lest the blame for their deaths be on them. Just to be clear I think wearing this stuff is smarty-pants to the nines... my beef is with how the blame 'sharing' is apportioned sometimes. On Dec 10, 2:50 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Yes. newenglandbike wrote: What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
It's a shared responsibility, period... AND a matter of common sense. We debate this topic ad nauseum within the cycling community in my home state of NJ, in terms of who has what rights, and who has accountability... Although I'd much rather be cycling than driving, I spend far more time as a motorist than as a cyclist, so my take on this issue: AS A CYCLIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from being mowed down, so I try to stack the odds in my favor by any and all means necessary. That includes riding where there are fewest cars. One of the great things about riding a Riv, I can take sidewalks, paths, alleyways with rough surface... I don't have to stick to the car routes. But when that's impractical and I'm forced to ride with traffic I make sure I can be clearly seen and that I stay out of the way of motorists, regardless of what I perceive my rights as a cyclist to be. I don't care about whether I'm right; I just care about not getting hit. I say ride defensively in every way possible AS A MOTORIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from hitting another motorist, a cyclist, pedestrian, deer, etc., so again, it's a matter of stacking the odds in my favor, like slowing down, and maybe being aware of the stretches of road where people, deer, and ninja-clad-stealth-night-riders all lurk. It comes down to this: If you allow yourself to fall into a situation where someone else's misjudgment, compounded with your own misjudgment creates conditions that are ripe for an accident, it's time to rethink your role in that equation. I say drive defensively in every way possible. Tonight I'll be driving home from the office and then riding my bike to my favorite pub... First, (thanks to this enlightening conversation) I'll take my time driving home. Then before I hop on my Riv, I'll trade my jacket with the reflectorized bands for my wife's blazing DOT vest (she's an EMT)... No such thing as overkill... just gotta stack those odds... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
The biggest sacrifice from the big BobbyB will be if he forgoes pint number 11 in the interest of keeping his head about him. We'll see if he can take his convictions that far On Dec 10, 12:38 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: It's a shared responsibility, period... AND a matter of common sense. We debate this topic ad nauseum within the cycling community in my home state of NJ, in terms of who has what rights, and who has accountability... Although I'd much rather be cycling than driving, I spend far more time as a motorist than as a cyclist, so my take on this issue: AS A CYCLIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from being mowed down, so I try to stack the odds in my favor by any and all means necessary. That includes riding where there are fewest cars. One of the great things about riding a Riv, I can take sidewalks, paths, alleyways with rough surface... I don't have to stick to the car routes. But when that's impractical and I'm forced to ride with traffic I make sure I can be clearly seen and that I stay out of the way of motorists, regardless of what I perceive my rights as a cyclist to be. I don't care about whether I'm right; I just care about not getting hit. I say ride defensively in every way possible AS A MOTORIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from hitting another motorist, a cyclist, pedestrian, deer, etc., so again, it's a matter of stacking the odds in my favor, like slowing down, and maybe being aware of the stretches of road where people, deer, and ninja-clad-stealth-night-riders all lurk. It comes down to this: If you allow yourself to fall into a situation where someone else's misjudgment, compounded with your own misjudgment creates conditions that are ripe for an accident, it's time to rethink your role in that equation. I say drive defensively in every way possible. Tonight I'll be driving home from the office and then riding my bike to my favorite pub... First, (thanks to this enlightening conversation) I'll take my time driving home. Then before I hop on my Riv, I'll trade my jacket with the reflectorized bands for my wife's blazing DOT vest (she's an EMT)... No such thing as overkill... just gotta stack those odds... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
You give me WAY too much credit, friend... I'm a cheap date. 2 pints is my max... 3 and I'm singing old Bread tunes on the Karaoke machine. But either way, I ALWAYS ride in control, thank you. Peace, BB On Dec 10, 4:13 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The biggest sacrifice from the big BobbyB will be if he forgoes pint number 11 in the interest of keeping his head about him. We'll see if he can take his convictions that far On Dec 10, 12:38 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: It's a shared responsibility, period... AND a matter of common sense. We debate this topic ad nauseum within the cycling community in my home state of NJ, in terms of who has what rights, and who has accountability... Although I'd much rather be cycling than driving, I spend far more time as a motorist than as a cyclist, so my take on this issue: AS A CYCLIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from being mowed down, so I try to stack the odds in my favor by any and all means necessary. That includes riding where there are fewest cars. One of the great things about riding a Riv, I can take sidewalks, paths, alleyways with rough surface... I don't have to stick to the car routes. But when that's impractical and I'm forced to ride with traffic I make sure I can be clearly seen and that I stay out of the way of motorists, regardless of what I perceive my rights as a cyclist to be. I don't care about whether I'm right; I just care about not getting hit. I say ride defensively in every way possible AS A MOTORIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from hitting another motorist, a cyclist, pedestrian, deer, etc., so again, it's a matter of stacking the odds in my favor, like slowing down, and maybe being aware of the stretches of road where people, deer, and ninja-clad-stealth-night-riders all lurk. It comes down to this: If you allow yourself to fall into a situation where someone else's misjudgment, compounded with your own misjudgment creates conditions that are ripe for an accident, it's time to rethink your role in that equation. I say drive defensively in every way possible. Tonight I'll be driving home from the office and then riding my bike to my favorite pub... First, (thanks to this enlightening conversation) I'll take my time driving home. Then before I hop on my Riv, I'll trade my jacket with the reflectorized bands for my wife's blazing DOT vest (she's an EMT)... No such thing as overkill... just gotta stack those odds... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
actually the parallel is right at the border, about 30 miles from my home. On Dec 10, 3:04 pm, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.com wrote: I live in northern Vt, one ride below the 45th parallel. Point of order, point of order! The Cascadia contingent would like to clarify that the only states intersecting the 45th parallel east of the Great Lakes are New Hampshire and Maine. Carry on, :-) -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
BB You took the words right out of my mouth- shared responsibility. NEBike I do not absolve Motorist of blame, people (myself included) do need to slow down when its dark put down the cell phone and pay attention. But IMHO riding a bike in the dark with no lights and dark clothing greatly increases your chances of being hit because you are invisible to others. If a black car was driving in the dark with no lights on and got hit by another motorist would you say the driver of the black car was blameless? The other driver should have paid more attention? As a Motorist when I drive at night and see another motorist driving sans lights I think - that is dangerous, and I feel the same way about cyclists who cycle at night on roads with no lights and dark clothing. I realize that some folks are out there riding because its their only option not a choice, and money is a factor, however I don't think lights/reflective tape/etc are so cost prohibitive that it creates a barrier for the majority of folks. We are lucky in our city that the local bicycle club is even giving away free lights. And if you can't get free then a Hawk 2 way safety flasher is available in white or red for $3 each, reflective tape and or reflective stickers can be had for less than 2 bucks. Heck a royce union bottle dynamo with front and rear lights is about 5 bucks. I don't want laws or mandates I would just hope that riders can be safe and responsible On Dec 10, 12:38 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: It's a shared responsibility, period... AND a matter of common sense. We debate this topic ad nauseum within the cycling community in my home state of NJ, in terms of who has what rights, and who has accountability... Although I'd much rather be cycling than driving, I spend far more time as a motorist than as a cyclist, so my take on this issue: AS A CYCLIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from being mowed down, so I try to stack the odds in my favor by any and all means necessary. That includes riding where there are fewest cars. One of the great things about riding a Riv, I can take sidewalks, paths, alleyways with rough surface... I don't have to stick to the car routes. But when that's impractical and I'm forced to ride with traffic I make sure I can be clearly seen and that I stay out of the way of motorists, regardless of what I perceive my rights as a cyclist to be. I don't care about whether I'm right; I just care about not getting hit. I say ride defensively in every way possible AS A MOTORIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from hitting another motorist, a cyclist, pedestrian, deer, etc., so again, it's a matter of stacking the odds in my favor, like slowing down, and maybe being aware of the stretches of road where people, deer, and ninja-clad-stealth-night-riders all lurk. It comes down to this: If you allow yourself to fall into a situation where someone else's misjudgment, compounded with your own misjudgment creates conditions that are ripe for an accident, it's time to rethink your role in that equation. I say drive defensively in every way possible. Tonight I'll be driving home from the office and then riding my bike to my favorite pub... First, (thanks to this enlightening conversation) I'll take my time driving home. Then before I hop on my Riv, I'll trade my jacket with the reflectorized bands for my wife's blazing DOT vest (she's an EMT)... No such thing as overkill... just gotta stack those odds... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me. I agree to a point. (Same as NewEnglander, I am not a car driver). A recent study of New York City car / pedestrian and car / bike accidents show that the highest percentage of serious fatalities involved male drivers turning left and hitting cyclists and pedestrians travelling in the direction opposite to the driver before the driver made the turn. I seem to recall the article nearly 70% of the time the drivers were male. The authors of the study made no conclusions - perhaps wisely. I am less so. I suspect the results show in urban areas anyway, impatient drivers are overestimating their ability to account for all the possible consequences of taking a left turn in an admittedly crowded environment. The cyclists proceeding through the intersection with the light, and the pedestrian in the cross walk both need to exercise due care. But the majority of care rests with the driver of the several ton machine making the more complex maneuver. I suspect female drivers are more willing to wait one more light when uncertain of the consequences than male. Driver agression and impatience are not the fault of either the pedestrian or the cyclist. On Dec 10, 1:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
3 and I'm singing old Bread tunes on the Karaoke machine. For all our sakes we definitely hope you stick with 2! On Dec 10, 3:24 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: You give me WAY too much credit, friend... I'm a cheap date. 2 pints is my max... 3 and I'm singing old Bread tunes on the Karaoke machine. But either way, I ALWAYS ride in control, thank you. Peace, BB On Dec 10, 4:13 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The biggest sacrifice from the big BobbyB will be if he forgoes pint number 11 in the interest of keeping his head about him. We'll see if he can take his convictions that far On Dec 10, 12:38 pm, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: It's a shared responsibility, period... AND a matter of common sense. We debate this topic ad nauseum within the cycling community in my home state of NJ, in terms of who has what rights, and who has accountability... Although I'd much rather be cycling than driving, I spend far more time as a motorist than as a cyclist, so my take on this issue: AS A CYCLIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from being mowed down, so I try to stack the odds in my favor by any and all means necessary. That includes riding where there are fewest cars. One of the great things about riding a Riv, I can take sidewalks, paths, alleyways with rough surface... I don't have to stick to the car routes. But when that's impractical and I'm forced to ride with traffic I make sure I can be clearly seen and that I stay out of the way of motorists, regardless of what I perceive my rights as a cyclist to be. I don't care about whether I'm right; I just care about not getting hit. I say ride defensively in every way possible AS A MOTORIST I try to maintain the mindset that I'm merely one bad situation away from hitting another motorist, a cyclist, pedestrian, deer, etc., so again, it's a matter of stacking the odds in my favor, like slowing down, and maybe being aware of the stretches of road where people, deer, and ninja-clad-stealth-night-riders all lurk. It comes down to this: If you allow yourself to fall into a situation where someone else's misjudgment, compounded with your own misjudgment creates conditions that are ripe for an accident, it's time to rethink your role in that equation. I say drive defensively in every way possible. Tonight I'll be driving home from the office and then riding my bike to my favorite pub... First, (thanks to this enlightening conversation) I'll take my time driving home. Then before I hop on my Riv, I'll trade my jacket with the reflectorized bands for my wife's blazing DOT vest (she's an EMT)... No such thing as overkill... just gotta stack those odds... Peace, BB On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Drivers.. they're you and me. They're not me... i don't drive. nor do many others. Most who don't, can't afford to own a car. That's the real world. On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:20 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I'm all for riding with lights and reflective gear, and do it myself, but take umbrage to the blame-the-victim attitude that puts the responsibility for not getting hit by a car on all on the cyclist. What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business trying to make themselves look like a bipedal quasar? Nice rant. Now back in the real world, if you are virtually invisible in the dark you certainly have yourself to blame if someone fails to see you and runs into you. Responsibility is shared, and if you're wearing nighttime camouflage -- dark clothing, no lighting, no reflectors, dark gloves, black balaclava pulled down over the face -- as so many cyclists and pedestrians seem to do, blame yourself if you aren't seen. Drivers are neither demigods nor demons. They're you and me.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/back-off-triangle/31-460 From: newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 12:15:36 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary? Ray, you didn't answer the second part of the question: What about people who can't afford to keep CatEye in business? ... And let's not forget wildlife.I assume deer, moose and racoon should be responsible for acquiring and using their own battery- powered hi-viz gear.I guess for pets, the onus is on the cat and dog owners to adorn them in electric-light vests. Lest the blame for their deaths be on them. Just to be clear I think wearing this stuff is smarty-pants to the nines... my beef is with how the blame 'sharing' is apportioned sometimes. On Dec 10, 2:50 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Yes. newenglandbike wrote: What about pedestrians, should they be all ablaze too? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
actually the parallel is right at the border, about 30 miles from my home. My bad. For some reason when I read that the first time it registered as Vi, as in Virginia. Yeah, I should be wearing glasses. -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Furthermore, the Empire State of New York peeks above the 45th Parallel for a few km as it follows the contour of the St Lawrence. Not that we're getting nitpicky or anything. On Dec 10, 4:39 pm, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.com wrote: actually the parallel is right at the border, about 30 miles from my home. My bad. For some reason when I read that the first time it registered as Vi, as in Virginia. Yeah, I should be wearing glasses. -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Brave, Foolish, or maybe necessary?
Along with a nice set of lights/reflectors/bright clothing etc...the 'ol Back-Off-Triangle provides a little added peace of mind for me. I'm able to get out of work just in time to avoid dark, dark conditions but lights are a must have. On a positive note, the shortest day of the year is coming up soon... and then they start getting longer minute by minute. But then, I'm way down here in the South where we get a little extra light and a lot more heat (no snow). Don't know how you guys do it in the dark/cold for months at a time. Be safe out there!! Joel On Dec 10, 6:50 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Furthermore, the Empire State of New York peeks above the 45th Parallel for a few km as it follows the contour of the St Lawrence. Not that we're getting nitpicky or anything. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
