[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Ian Strader]

If the 56cm 650B Atlantis can take 2.2" knobbies, I wonder if you could 
squeeze some 2.35" slicks in there...

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/racing_tires/G-ONE_Speed



On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 11:20:14 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

Andy

Asking for the pros and cons of 650B vs 26" deserves it's own thread, if 
you sincerely want this group to cover that ground for you.  As the ~60th 
post on a thread that has nothing about your topic in the thread title or 
in my original post, you won't likely get the best perspectives asking that 
here.  There are tons of opinion pieces on the internet comparing them all, 
from all different perspectives.  Both wheel sizes are great.  Read up 
some, ride a few bikes if you can, talk with people you trust and go with 
your gut.  Start a thread on this topic if you want to have a big swath of 
this group chime in.  Many will ask you "what kind of riding are you going 
to do?"  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 9:15:42 AM UTC-8, Andy Williams wrote:
>
> I currently ride a 53 cm Bleriot 
> , 
> and am considering an Atlantis as the last bike I will ever buy, until the 
> next one (N+1, you know.)
>
> But, I'm curious about the wheel size and the considerations for either 
> 650B or 26"?   Pros and cons of each?
>
> Andy
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Andy Williams]

I currently ride a 53 cm Bleriot 
, 
and am considering an Atlantis as the last bike I will ever buy, until the 
next one (N+1, you know.)

But, I'm curious about the wheel size and the considerations for either 
650B or 26"?   Pros and cons of each?

Andy

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Patrick Moore]

Now that is interesting news. Please keep us updated.

What will be different from the stock model?

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 8:50 AM, masmojo  wrote:

> I  may have a semi-custom Hunq. In my near future ..
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

This is a quote from an article written by Jeremiah Knupp and published in 
the April, 2016 edition of American Rifleman.  The article is about one of 
Ernest Hemingway's favorite rifles but I think this paragraph is a perfect 
summation of how I feel about an Atlantis/Hunqapillar vs an LHT or maybe an 
A. Homer Hilsen vs a Surly Pacer. 

"Good means “adequate.” A good car is one that gets you to work every day, 
picks up the kids after school, hauls the groceries twice a week and starts 
every time you turn the key. A good rifle goes bang every time you pull the 
trigger, fires a cartridge that accomplishes what it was intended for and 
lets the average shooter put all of his rounds into an area the size of a 
dinner plate at 100 yds. As a hunter, Ernest Hemingway owned and used some 
of the best firearms the 20th century had to offer—guns with names such as 
Griffin & Howe, Westley Richards and Boss engraved on them. He understood 
the difference between “good” and “really good.” Good gets the job done. 
Really good reaches down and touches something deep inside you while it’s 
getting the job done. For a man like “The Man” to add the adverb “really” 
to a rifle he calls “good” is something to take note of."


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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[masmojo]

I am envious! That sounds a great plan! 
Like you I also got my Atlantis on this board & I totally love it.
I have several 650B bikes & in the middle frame sizes I think it makes the most 
sense. I  consider myself to be at the lower limit of what is idesl for 650B & 
most frames my size are 26" I've riden 26" for most of my adult life so no big 
deal. My Atlantis is 26" & after Grant announced that Atlanti were going to 
650B I  was keen to get one in 26" before the switch, when one popped up here. 
That may sound somewhat contradictory, but I had just ridden a 26" wheeled 
Hunq. And I liked it! After riding an XO-1 for so long I really liked the 
"squirtyness" of the 26" wheels, they just go when you mash the pedals which is 
important to me because most of the time I am commuting or getting around town. 
I love the roll of 650B tires though, they are certainly more plush.
I  may have a semi-custom Hunq. In my near future so I'll be interested in how 
that works out.
Regarding timing; Waterford must be awful busy, because I know someone else who 
recently ordered a 650b Atlantis!?
Hunting? Not a hunter myself, but I would hardly characterize it a brutality or 
violence either. Most game animals have relatively short life spans, if they 
are not hunted by men and they grow old & die then imagine the effects of their 
decaying flesh on the environment. Everything living, dies, it's energy 
consumed by some other organism. I've not eaten meat before, but I felt My 
energy level was always low, so I  embrace the fact that I am a carnivore. To a 
certain extent I personally believe what you eat effects our brain chemistry & 
how we think; the longer a person goes without eating meat, it mskes sense that 
the thought of it will be more repellent. I also agree that I would rather eat 
an animal whose been allowed to live a more or less normal  life  then one 
thats been confined and fattened for slaughter. Sorry, had to get that off my 
chest, in fairness, I did not bring it up! 😉
Here in Texas its dangerous to ride certain places during deer season! 
Sorry for the novel!

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[dougP]

I bought my Atlantis after quite a bit of discussion with Rivendell.  I 
wanted a custom touring bike but after the measurements, questions about 
current bike, etc, they said, "Well, what we'd build would pretty much be 
an Atlantis with S&S couplings.  How badly do you want that feature?"  
There were a few other fiddly bits involved but as it turned out a stock 
Atlantis exceeded expectations.  That was in 2003.  

RE: LHT v Atlantis.  One of my touring buds got an Atlantis after years on 
a LHT.  Hopping back'n'forth between them, he concluded the difference was 
real.  Not huge but noticeable.  So you really do get something more than 
pretty lugs & 2 tone paint.  Will it change your life in mystical ways?  
Probably not.  

dougP

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 6:53:38 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> A lugged steel frame made to order by Waterford in the USA sounds pretty 
> custom to me. I don't agree with the conventional wisdom that a full custom 
> - even one from Rivendell - always gets you a better bike if the Atlantis 
> already fits, and does the stuff one wants to do with their $2300 frameset.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

They vigorously encouraged me to order the 56 Atlantis over the 59 that I had 
also considered, given that I'm doing a drop bar build.  Brian was probably the 
one I've talked with the most about this particular bike. 

I haven't ordered a Hunqapillar yet, and still may end up on the 56 instead of 
the 53.  It is a lot of post showing. They never give me a hard time though. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Joe Bernard]

A lugged steel frame made to order by Waterford in the USA sounds pretty custom 
to me. I don't agree with the conventional wisdom that a full custom - even one 
from Rivendell - always gets you a better bike if the Atlantis already fits, 
and does the stuff one wants to do with their $2300 frameset.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[RichS]

>From an Atlantis owner: absolutely worth the price of ownership.

Regards,
Richard

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Dave Johnston]

Bill,
Did the folks at RivHQ give you a hard time for ordering bikes that are 
"too small" by their standards. There is a lot more than a Fistful of 
seatpost showing there. 

-Dave

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:20:14 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

People who love their LHT and hate the Atlantis are better off with the LHT. 
People capable of specifying a custom frameset that is superior to a 
masterpiece like the Atlantis should go ahead and do that. People who love the 
Atlantis, but think it should cost $500 are doomed to be unhappy. 

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[George Schick]

I like the looks of the Atlantis, too.  And I can see why those who own one 
tout it's general purpose effectiveness for everything from off-road to 
self supported touring.  However, when bringing the model up as such an 
example during discussions on other blogs I frequently encounter push-back 
that it's too expensive for what's worth.  Examples include the much 
cheaper Surly LHT or a "nice custom" which could be built for the same 
price or less.  So I guess it's a niche market and all depends on how much 
one is willing to spend.  

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 12:47:10 PM UTC-6, Tim wrote:
>
> I love the looks of that Atlantis Bill! If there's a next Riv in my stable 
> (ha! That's so funny...IF there's a next Riv...) it will be an Atlantis. 
> I'll probably need a 61. I've never experienced toe overlap on any bikes so 
> I think maybe that won't be anise for a 700c in 61. Am I right about that? 
> My only 650B bike is my MAP rando bike and the jury is still out on it 
> because I've not ridden over 30 miles on it. I'm intrigued by 650B 
> though... Anyway, those are both really sweet rides!

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I love the looks of that Atlantis Bill! If there's a next Riv in my stable (ha! 
That's so funny...IF there's a next Riv...) it will be an Atlantis. I'll 
probably need a 61. I've never experienced toe overlap on any bikes so I think 
maybe that won't be anise for a 700c in 61. Am I right about that? My only 650B 
bike is my MAP rando bike and the jury is still out on it because I've not 
ridden over 30 miles on it. I'm intrigued by 650B though... Anyway, those are 
both really sweet rides!

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Hugh Smitham]

Bill, super happy for you. I sold my 56cm  Atlantis for a number of reasons 
one being the toe overlap the other tire width, too skinny. Looking forward 
to seeing the builds. 

I Love  Radiolab. Drew can you share the audio link? Or share the the name 
and date of the episode?

Without reading the articles that Leah and Kieran shared hunting is normal. 
No matter what, you're not going to stop it. If you kill it and eat it, I 
see nothing wrong. I'm a vegetarian because I want to do my part in 
reducing my carbon footprint. It's also healthier for me. Not you! You may 
have a different biology. IMO mass animal husbandry is cruel and is a huge 
(statistical fact) producer of greenhouse gases. And to top it off and mass 
consumer of water. 

~Hugh (adding more fuel to the fire) Smitham  

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 3:09:51 PM UTC-8, drew wrote:
>
> Do you have any info on the 56 hunq? I have an itchy feeling it may fit me 
> better, but I'm curious about whether or not it will have a Diagatube.
>
> Also, for those who like their beliefs shaken, there is a great radiolab 
> episode about hunting and I don't think you could listen to it without 
> taking a step out of whatever camp you're in, and into the gray areas of 
> human decisions.
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Ron Mc]

good job Bill - those look worth the effort

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Kellie]

Wow! I'm really glad I ordered my Atlantis when I did. It took 2-1/2 months 
and I'm in the process of building it now.

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 11:20:14 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Joe Bernard]

I love lamp. 

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Christopher Cote]

Thanks for the report and pics! I'm surprised to see so much seat post 
showing on the 650b Hunq. I have a similar saddle height, so I also 
appreciate the pics. I re-entered the world of off-road biking a few years 
ago via a fat bike and later a 29er. So much different than the 26x1.95 we 
had in the mid-90s. I love the better rollingoverness of the bigger wheels. 
I'm hesitant to try 650b (although I did ride a full suspension 650b for a 
short ride, but not enough to get a full impression). The Hunqapillar is a 
bike on my want list, but in 700c/29 guise. I wonder what the TCO would be 
like on that. I'd ride a 54cm Hunq. The front-center is 630mm. My 59cm 
Heron has a front center of 600mm, and I get TCO with 700x40mm tires and 
fenders.


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:20:14 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Daniel D.]

well that's certainly an unbiased source

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 3:25:15 PM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote:
>
> Steve, who says I know nothing about it? No one has proven that. And why, 
> because I'm not a hunter? I've done more than my share of evidence-based 
> research into my eating habits and the influential factors therein.
>
> Leah, I respect your position and agree to disagree. As far as the link 
> you shared, sadly the website is basically the conservative equivalent of 
> the Huffington Post and is not a credible source of information. It is 
> heavily (and obviously) biased and is not even close to being scientific in 
> nature. In this age of Jan Heine and rigorous scientific analysis, we 
> should apply the same requirements here.
>
> Here is a piece, complete with source material, that offers a 
> counter-argument. It also takes aim at the myth that overpopulation is a 
> problem without human intervention. 
>
> http://www.peta.org/issues/wildlife/wildlife-factsheets/sport-hunting-cruel-unnecessary/
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:58:04 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned you can eat what you like, but I think you are on 
>> very shaky ground taking a "moral stance" on something you obviously know 
>> nothing about (i.e., hunting).  Especially since it's off topic.
>>
>> On 12/02/2016 05:49 PM, Kieran J wrote:
>>
>> I wrapped up my piece, but since you asked: in depth research into this 
>> topic and other food industry issues led me to stop eating meat long ago.  
>>
>> Are you arguing against taking a moral stance on an important issue? 
>>
>> KJ
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:45:47 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote: 
>>>
>>> Do you think paying others to kill your food and wrap it nicely in saran 
>>> wrap with nary a drop of blood gives you some kind of moral high ground? 
>>>  The average shopper doesn't give much thought that something had to die so 
>>> they could eat.  A hunter does... 
>>>
>>> "violent rampage" comparing hunting with racism  don't know whether to 
>>> smh or lol.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:02:54 PM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote: 

 Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't 
 "be respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing spree. 
 Some of us get through life very well without feeling the need to go on a 
 violent rampage ..


 Peace,


 KJ


 On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote: 
>
> I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as 
> God's Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no 
> school on the opener to this day. 
>
> Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader 
> season. One of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after 
> hours 
> in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time 
> missing the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but 
> fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and 
> sent it to be processed at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.
>
> I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife 
> and great conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture 
> may have a different impression when they read this. 
>
> Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how 
> you can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got 
> my 
> husband's Clem.
>
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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Bill,  

Thanks for posting those photos with the saddles at 75.5cm.  I know you 
offered to do this and I appreciate you following thru with it.  




On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes.  Obsessing over Toe Clip Overlap has for the first time in my life 
caused me to obsess over Front Center.  Front Center is the distance 
between the front axle and the BB, center to center.  

I have a bike already that has 584x42 tires and fenders.  The fenders clear 
the tires by 15mm.  The Front Center is 626mm, and my toes clear the 
fenders by about 15mm.  The 56cm Atlantis has a Front Center of 618mm, so I 
am confident my toes will still clear, even with fenders.  They clear by a 
lot as pictured with fatter tires and no fenders.  

The 53cm Hunqapillar has a massively long Front Center, because it is has a 
long TT to go with upright bars.  It's Front Center is 637mm, so I'm 
completely sure it will clear no matter what tires I put on, because it has 
584mm wheels.  

The 55cm Appaloosa had a 628mm Front Center, which is long, but with 
622x50mm tires, plus fenders, it wasn't enough.  Low speed maneuvers, 
climbing slow, or weaving through the gates onto the bike path, I'd kick 
the fender with my toes from time to time.  It's not the end of the world, 
but I had the opportunity to make that issue go away with no compromises 
except money.  

Bill



On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:03:20 PM UTC-8, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Bill
>
> Did the 650B with wide tires eliminate the TOC???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

Did the 650B with wide tires eliminate the TOC???

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Scott McLain]

Hi Bill,
Love your bikes.  Your and inspiration for others with the +1 itch.  I have 
an AHH and can't make up my mind to go +1 with a Hunq or an Atlantis.  

I live in Utah and manage construction projects.  We always have to budget 
times into our project schedules for hunting season.  Even in Utah, it is 
much more about getting up in the mountains and enjoying time together. 
 The best hunters usually don't kill anything, because that leads to a lot 
of work (especially an elk) and ruins all the fun/relaxation.  The kids 
still get out of school on the first day of hunting season.  When I first 
moved here, I went on a mountain bike ride on opening day, and scared the 
 out of myself because there were men with guns around every bend!



On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:20:14 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Kieran J]

Sorry, Bill. I think we're done :-s
Enjoy the Rivs.

KJ


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 6:31:13 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Drew
>
> I do have a build sheet PDF for the 56cm Hunqapillar.  Send me a PM and I 
> will email it to you.  If you want to get it straight from Rivendell, email 
> Brian.  It does not have a Diagatube.  
>
> To everybody else arguing back and forth about meat, please allow me to 
> politely invite you to take it somewhere else.  If you insist on continuing 
> it on RBW Owners Group, start your own thread so I can avoid reading it.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 3:09:51 PM UTC-8, drew wrote:
>>
>> Do you have any info on the 56 hunq? I have an itchy feeling it may fit 
>> me better, but I'm curious about whether or not it will have a Diagatube.
>>
>> Also, for those who like their beliefs shaken, there is a great radiolab 
>> episode about hunting and I don't think you could listen to it without 
>> taking a step out of whatever camp you're in, and into the gray areas of 
>> human decisions.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

George 

The mountain bike folks call ISO 584 "27.5".  The same way the mountain 
bike folks call ISO 622 "29".  The Atlantis I pictured in the OP had some 
584x57 knobby tires on it.  

Bill

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 3:12:39 PM UTC-8, George Schick wrote:
>
> Bill - thanks for steering the thread back to the OP.  I have a question 
> about the Atlantis, too:  I'm a little fuzzy on what you mean by "27.5 x 
> 2.2" knobbies".  "27.5"?  Can you put that into ISO terms, please.  Thanks.
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:03:38 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>> I am happy to try to steer this thread back to my original post.  :-)
>>
>> First, on the Atlantis front:
>>
>> I had a 700c 58cm Atlantis.  I bought the frameset used here on this 
>> group for $1000.  At the time it came available it was too inexpensive to 
>> pass on, and I jumped at it.  I did a really nice build that I was super 
>> proud of, with several unique details.  The only thing I didn't like about 
>> the bike was toe-clip-overlap with fenders or really fat tires.  I have a 
>> paid sabbatical this coming fall, and I'm planning on doing a 2 week tour. 
>>  I have a neighbor whose wife has a 700c Atlantis and who told me "if you 
>> ever want to sell it I'll buy it".  So, when the 650B Atlantis came 
>> available, I sold my 700C Atlantis to my neighbor, at a great price to him 
>> since I only had $1000 into the frameset.  I'm going to set up this 
>> Atlantis as a 650x48 road bike, and it will potentially be the bike I take 
>> on my two week tour.  It will have drop bars and a light build.  
>>
>> On the Appaloosa/Hunqapillar Front:  
>>
>> When I was test riding the 650B Atlantis, Grant said "you better ride the 
>> 650B Hunq.  It's amazing".  I rode it and it is amazing.  I came back from 
>> the ride thinking "how can I get one of these?".  Selling my Appaloosa was 
>> the only way to partially justify it.  My 55cm Appaloosa also had toe clip 
>> overlap with fenders.  So, I sold my Appaloosa frameset and wheelset.  It 
>> will be a knockabout town and trail bike, and it will be my son's S24O 
>> bike, and sometimes mine.  It will have Albatross bars and a basket and fat 
>> knobby tires.  
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:42:49 PM UTC-8, Edwin W wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> I have seen you write about the quest for these two bikes, but am hazy 
>>> on the details. Can you let us know why you are getting these two bikes, 
>>> and what you are going to do with them?
>>>
>>> I like the look of both and can't wait to see your color.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
 two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to 
 help 
 pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to 
 my 
 saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  


 

 56cm 650B Atlantis



 

 53cm 650B Hunqapillar


 Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it 
 look super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because 
 that 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a 
 little bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to 
 bike when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me 
 and 
 not likely to get to 5'-10".  


 So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went 
 with a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  
 I 
 will keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color. 
  One of you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks 
 so darn good.  


 I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me 
 that everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting 
 season!  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for 
 frame turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as 
 I've got plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are 
 going to order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get 
 it.  


 Bill Lindsay

 El Cerrito, CA





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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

Drew

I do have a build sheet PDF for the 56cm Hunqapillar.  Send me a PM and I 
will email it to you.  If you want to get it straight from Rivendell, email 
Brian.  It does not have a Diagatube.  

To everybody else arguing back and forth about meat, please allow me to 
politely invite you to take it somewhere else.  If you insist on continuing 
it on RBW Owners Group, start your own thread so I can avoid reading it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 3:09:51 PM UTC-8, drew wrote:
>
> Do you have any info on the 56 hunq? I have an itchy feeling it may fit me 
> better, but I'm curious about whether or not it will have a Diagatube.
>
> Also, for those who like their beliefs shaken, there is a great radiolab 
> episode about hunting and I don't think you could listen to it without 
> taking a step out of whatever camp you're in, and into the gray areas of 
> human decisions.
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[sameness]

Choose your own adventure!

A) Back on topic

or 

B) Lock thread

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Kieran J]

Steve, who says I know nothing about it? No one has proven that. And why, 
because I'm not a hunter? I've done more than my share of evidence-based 
research into my eating habits and the influential factors therein.

Leah, I respect your position and agree to disagree. As far as the link you 
shared, sadly the website is basically the conservative equivalent of the 
Huffington Post and is not a credible source of information. It is heavily 
(and obviously) biased and is not even close to being scientific in nature. 
In this age of Jan Heine and rigorous scientific analysis, we should apply 
the same requirements here.

Here is a piece, complete with source material, that offers a 
counter-argument. It also takes aim at the myth that overpopulation is a 
problem without human intervention. 
http://www.peta.org/issues/wildlife/wildlife-factsheets/sport-hunting-cruel-unnecessary/

KJ


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:58:04 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> As far as I'm concerned you can eat what you like, but I think you are on 
> very shaky ground taking a "moral stance" on something you obviously know 
> nothing about (i.e., hunting).  Especially since it's off topic.
>
> On 12/02/2016 05:49 PM, Kieran J wrote:
>
> I wrapped up my piece, but since you asked: in depth research into this 
> topic and other food industry issues led me to stop eating meat long ago.  
>
> Are you arguing against taking a moral stance on an important issue? 
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:45:47 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote: 
>>
>> Do you think paying others to kill your food and wrap it nicely in saran 
>> wrap with nary a drop of blood gives you some kind of moral high ground? 
>>  The average shopper doesn't give much thought that something had to die so 
>> they could eat.  A hunter does... 
>>
>> "violent rampage" comparing hunting with racism  don't know whether to 
>> smh or lol.
>>
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:02:54 PM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote: 
>>>
>>> Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't 
>>> "be respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing spree. 
>>> Some of us get through life very well without feeling the need to go on a 
>>> violent rampage ..
>>>
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>>
>>> KJ
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote: 

 I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as God's 
 Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no school on 
 the opener to this day. 

 Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader 
 season. One of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after hours 
 in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time 
 missing the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but 
 fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and 
 sent it to be processed at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.

 I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife 
 and great conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture 
 may have a different impression when they read this. 

 Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how 
 you can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got 
 my 
 husband's Clem.

>>> -- 
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Patrick Moore]

+1; if Keiren has given up meat, that's proof of real sincerity.

But if the Rivendell Way is Paleo, how do we square this circle?

Me, I eat meat sometimes, not often; and I'm not at all Paleo.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:56 PM, LeahFoy  wrote:

> I can respect our differences, Kieren, especially because you've given up
> meat. That's real conviction - misguided, according to The Book of Leah,
> but genuine. Meat-eaters who get on their pedestal about hunting are a
> special kind of stupid, and there's just no kind way to say that. My
> experience with hunting couldn't be more different than the killing rampage
> you reference, but I can see you get there. I found this article online
> that I thought was excellent - AND IT HAS BIKES! I'll take Kieran's lead
> and be quiet now. Back to your regular programming, folks!
>
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2012/02/
> 01/how-hunting-helps-wildlife/?client=safari
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Patrick Moore]

I disagree, at least partly. I've shot exactly one real gun, a cheap .22,
about 20 times, plinking at old appliances on the far west mesa desert, and
that's it, apart from home-made firecracker matchlocks made in high school,
but I truly believe that hunting, given the right circumstances, is normal.
I've loved reading about guns, and one day I may own one, hopefully a black
powder gun. (At my age, I'd better hurry.)

Hunting is just too much a part of human cultures worldwide and in all
times - *quod semper et ubique et ab omnibus,* to borrow the Roman Catholic
phrase defining right doctrine (I'm *Orthodox,* OK?) not to somehow be
normal. Sure, many Buddhists and Jains and upper caste Hindus don't eat
meat, but the practice is still so universal that principle still holds.

I do despise rich people who engage in comfortable slaughters with animals
beaten toward a convenient shooting point -- autumn British upperclass
pheasant shoots, Raj shikaris, the idiot dentist who payed thousands to
shoot a famous lion; and rednecks with automatics and a fuck you mindset
toward killing; but hunting can easily be "normal".

I do think that the normal way to hunt is to hunt for food; and to make
some sort of sacrifice to re-establish the spiritual equilibrium broken by
causing death; after all, life is something we cannot make or own; it is
somehow transcendent. The American Indians traditionally did this;
Christians already have a bloody sacrifice, but an at least mental
acknowledgement that life is something irreducible and that we don't own is
clearly necessary.

And the arguments about overpopulation are certainly valid too, as is the
argument for maintaining the health of the species, and the argument from
nature; after all, man isn't the only thing that kills for food.

Certainly, for a healthy mature deer to be killed competently by a hunter
seems to me to be better than for a cow or what have you to be raised in
the horrible and unnatural conditions imposed by industrial farming.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Kieran J  wrote:

> Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't "be
> respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing spree. Some
> of us get through life very well without feeling the need to go on a
> violent rampage ..
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>>
>> I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as God's
>> Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no school on
>> the opener to this day.
>>
>> Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader
>> season. One of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after hours
>> in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time
>> missing the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but
>> fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and
>> sent it to be processed at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.
>>
>> I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife and
>> great conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture may
>> have a different impression when they read this.
>>
>> Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how you
>> can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got my
>> husband's Clem.
>>
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individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

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world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[George Schick]

Bill - thanks for steering the thread back to the OP.  I have a question 
about the Atlantis, too:  I'm a little fuzzy on what you mean by "27.5 x 
2.2" knobbies".  "27.5"?  Can you put that into ISO terms, please.  Thanks.

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:03:38 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Edwin
>
> I am happy to try to steer this thread back to my original post.  :-)
>
> First, on the Atlantis front:
>
> I had a 700c 58cm Atlantis.  I bought the frameset used here on this group 
> for $1000.  At the time it came available it was too inexpensive to pass 
> on, and I jumped at it.  I did a really nice build that I was super proud 
> of, with several unique details.  The only thing I didn't like about the 
> bike was toe-clip-overlap with fenders or really fat tires.  I have a paid 
> sabbatical this coming fall, and I'm planning on doing a 2 week tour.  I 
> have a neighbor whose wife has a 700c Atlantis and who told me "if you ever 
> want to sell it I'll buy it".  So, when the 650B Atlantis came available, I 
> sold my 700C Atlantis to my neighbor, at a great price to him since I only 
> had $1000 into the frameset.  I'm going to set up this Atlantis as a 650x48 
> road bike, and it will potentially be the bike I take on my two week tour. 
>  It will have drop bars and a light build.  
>
> On the Appaloosa/Hunqapillar Front:  
>
> When I was test riding the 650B Atlantis, Grant said "you better ride the 
> 650B Hunq.  It's amazing".  I rode it and it is amazing.  I came back from 
> the ride thinking "how can I get one of these?".  Selling my Appaloosa was 
> the only way to partially justify it.  My 55cm Appaloosa also had toe clip 
> overlap with fenders.  So, I sold my Appaloosa frameset and wheelset.  It 
> will be a knockabout town and trail bike, and it will be my son's S24O 
> bike, and sometimes mine.  It will have Albatross bars and a basket and fat 
> knobby tires.  
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:42:49 PM UTC-8, Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I have seen you write about the quest for these two bikes, but am hazy on 
>> the details. Can you let us know why you are getting these two bikes, and 
>> what you are going to do with them?
>>
>> I like the look of both and can't wait to see your color.
>>
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
>>> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
>>> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
>>> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>>>
>>>
>>> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it 
>>> look super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because 
>>> that 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a 
>>> little bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to 
>>> bike when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and 
>>> not likely to get to 5'-10".  
>>>
>>>
>>> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went 
>>> with a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I 
>>> will keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color. 
>>>  One of you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks 
>>> so darn good.  
>>>
>>>
>>> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
>>> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>>>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
>>> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
>>> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
>>> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[drew]

Do you have any info on the 56 hunq? I have an itchy feeling it may fit me 
better, but I'm curious about whether or not it will have a Diagatube.

Also, for those who like their beliefs shaken, there is a great radiolab 
episode about hunting and I don't think you could listen to it without taking a 
step out of whatever camp you're in, and into the gray areas of human decisions.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

Edwin

I am happy to try to steer this thread back to my original post.  :-)

First, on the Atlantis front:

I had a 700c 58cm Atlantis.  I bought the frameset used here on this group 
for $1000.  At the time it came available it was too inexpensive to pass 
on, and I jumped at it.  I did a really nice build that I was super proud 
of, with several unique details.  The only thing I didn't like about the 
bike was toe-clip-overlap with fenders or really fat tires.  I have a paid 
sabbatical this coming fall, and I'm planning on doing a 2 week tour.  I 
have a neighbor whose wife has a 700c Atlantis and who told me "if you ever 
want to sell it I'll buy it".  So, when the 650B Atlantis came available, I 
sold my 700C Atlantis to my neighbor, at a great price to him since I only 
had $1000 into the frameset.  I'm going to set up this Atlantis as a 650x48 
road bike, and it will potentially be the bike I take on my two week tour. 
 It will have drop bars and a light build.  

On the Appaloosa/Hunqapillar Front:  

When I was test riding the 650B Atlantis, Grant said "you better ride the 
650B Hunq.  It's amazing".  I rode it and it is amazing.  I came back from 
the ride thinking "how can I get one of these?".  Selling my Appaloosa was 
the only way to partially justify it.  My 55cm Appaloosa also had toe clip 
overlap with fenders.  So, I sold my Appaloosa frameset and wheelset.  It 
will be a knockabout town and trail bike, and it will be my son's S24O 
bike, and sometimes mine.  It will have Albatross bars and a basket and fat 
knobby tires.  

Bill


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:42:49 PM UTC-8, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I have seen you write about the quest for these two bikes, but am hazy on 
> the details. Can you let us know why you are getting these two bikes, and 
> what you are going to do with them?
>
> I like the look of both and can't wait to see your color.
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
>> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
>> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
>> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>>
>>
>> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it 
>> look super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because 
>> that 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a 
>> little bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to 
>> bike when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and 
>> not likely to get to 5'-10".  
>>
>>
>> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went 
>> with a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I 
>> will keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color. 
>>  One of you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks 
>> so darn good.  
>>
>>
>> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
>> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
>> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
>> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
>> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>>
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>>
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Steve Palincsar]

As far as I'm concerned you can eat what you like, but I think you are 
on very shaky ground taking a "moral stance" on something you obviously 
know nothing about (i.e., hunting).  Especially since it's off topic.



On 12/02/2016 05:49 PM, Kieran J wrote:
I wrapped up my piece, but since you asked: in depth research into 
this topic and other food industry issues led me to stop eating meat 
long ago.


Are you arguing against taking a moral stance on an important issue?

KJ


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:45:47 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote:

Do you think paying others to kill your food and wrap it nicely in
saran wrap with nary a drop of blood gives you some kind of moral
high ground?  The average shopper doesn't give much thought that
something had to die so they could eat.  A hunter does...

"violent rampage" comparing hunting with racism  don't know
whether to smh or lol.

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:02:54 PM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote:

Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age,
you can't "be respectful of wildlife" while also participating
in a killing spree. Some of us get through life very well
without feeling the need to go on a violent rampage ..


Peace,


KJ



On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:

I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be
referred to as God's Country) where deer hunting is also
alive and well. There is no school on the opener to this day.

Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in
muzzleloader season. One of my best friends just got her
for a few days ago after hours in a tree, perched on a
deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time missing
the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death,
but fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field
dressed it herself and sent it to be processed at a meat
plant as venison to feed her family.

I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful
of wildlife and great conservationists. I add that because
some not from the culture may have a different impression
when they read this.

Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I
don't know how you can stand the excitement. I nearly
tipped over last year when we got my husband's Clem.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[LeahFoy]

I can respect our differences, Kieren, especially because you've given up meat. 
That's real conviction - misguided, according to The Book of Leah, but genuine. 
Meat-eaters who get on their pedestal about hunting are a special kind of 
stupid, and there's just no kind way to say that. My experience with hunting 
couldn't be more different than the killing rampage you reference, but I can 
see you get there. I found this article online that I thought was excellent - 
AND IT HAS BIKES! I'll take Kieran's lead and be quiet now. Back to your 
regular programming, folks!

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2012/02/01/how-hunting-helps-wildlife/?client=safari

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Kieran J]

I wrapped up my piece, but since you asked: in depth research into this 
topic and other food industry issues led me to stop eating meat long ago. 

Are you arguing against taking a moral stance on an important issue? 

KJ


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:45:47 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> Do you think paying others to kill your food and wrap it nicely in saran 
> wrap with nary a drop of blood gives you some kind of moral high ground? 
>  The average shopper doesn't give much thought that something had to die so 
> they could eat.  A hunter does...
>
> "violent rampage" comparing hunting with racism  don't know whether to smh 
> or lol.
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:02:54 PM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote:
>>
>> Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't "be 
>> respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing spree. Some 
>> of us get through life very well without feeling the need to go on a 
>> violent rampage ..
>>
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>>
>> KJ
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>>>
>>> I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as God's 
>>> Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no school on 
>>> the opener to this day. 
>>>
>>> Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader 
>>> season. One of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after hours 
>>> in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time 
>>> missing the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but 
>>> fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and 
>>> sent it to be processed at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.
>>>
>>> I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife 
>>> and great conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture 
>>> may have a different impression when they read this. 
>>>
>>> Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how 
>>> you can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got my 
>>> husband's Clem.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Daniel D.]

Do you think paying others to kill your food and wrap it nicely in saran 
wrap with nary a drop of blood gives you some kind of moral high ground? 
 The average shopper doesn't give much thought that something had to die so 
they could eat.  A hunter does...

"violent rampage" comparing hunting with racism  don't know whether to smh 
or lol.

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:02:54 PM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote:
>
> Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't "be 
> respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing spree. Some 
> of us get through life very well without feeling the need to go on a 
> violent rampage ..
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>>
>> I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as God's 
>> Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no school on 
>> the opener to this day. 
>>
>> Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader 
>> season. One of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after hours 
>> in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time 
>> missing the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but 
>> fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and 
>> sent it to be processed at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.
>>
>> I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife and 
>> great conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture may 
>> have a different impression when they read this. 
>>
>> Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how you 
>> can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got my 
>> husband's Clem.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Edwin W]

Bill,

I have seen you write about the quest for these two bikes, but am hazy on 
the details. Can you let us know why you are getting these two bikes, and 
what you are going to do with them?

I like the look of both and can't wait to see your color.

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Belopsky]

ug

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Kieran J]

Sure, nature can be cruel but the balance is there for a reason. Hunting 
for sport and unnecessary food stocks is indefensible, period. It's a 
practice steeped in tradition and dogma, like racism and fossil fuel 
extraction. It's a textbook display of human arrogance.

I understand this is not the forum for this stuff; I'll stand down. It does 
make my blood boil though - obviously.

KJ


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:09:21 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Kieran, do you know what happens to deer when there is overpopulation? You 
> know not of what you speak.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Daniel D.]

Yeah why can't hunters get their meat from Safeway like everyone else.  That 
way nothing has to die.  "Violent rampage"SMH...

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Steve Palincsar]

I've never been hunting, but I can't imagine "violent rampage" is any 
kind of accurate description, no more so than "spree."   I'm guessing 
you are "not from the culture"...



On 12/02/2016 05:02 PM, Kieran J wrote:


Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't 
"be respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing 
spree. Some of us get through life very well without feeling the need 
to go on a violent rampage ..



Peace,


KJ



On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:

I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as
God's Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is
no school on the opener to this day.

Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in
muzzleloader season. One of my best friends just got her for a few
days ago after hours in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the
cold. It was her first time missing the spinal cord, which affords
a clean and quick death, but fortunately a liver shot is also
deadly. She field dressed it herself and sent it to be processed
at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.

I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of
wildlife and great conservationists. I add that because some not
from the culture may have a different impression when they read this.

Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know
how you can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year
when we got my husband's Clem.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[LeahFoy]

Kieran, do you know what happens to deer when there is overpopulation? You know 
not of what you speak.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Kieran J]

Sorry if I sounds confrontational, but in this day and age, you can't "be 
respectful of wildlife" while also participating in a killing spree. Some 
of us get through life very well without feeling the need to go on a 
violent rampage ..


Peace,


KJ


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as God's 
> Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no school on 
> the opener to this day. 
>
> Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader 
> season. One of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after hours 
> in a tree, perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time 
> missing the spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but 
> fortunately a liver shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and 
> sent it to be processed at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.
>
> I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife and 
> great conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture may 
> have a different impression when they read this. 
>
> Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how you 
> can stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got my 
> husband's Clem.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

Haha Jeff.  I was trying to go for a PEOTUS speech transcript.  

Bill

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:15:52 PM UTC-8, sameness wrote:
>
> Holy Grant PetersEn Ghost Writer! I'd say today's visit really rubbed off 
> on you, if not your keyboard.
>
> Jeff Hagedorn
> Los Angeles, CA USA
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:11:05 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> OK, well, *practically *everybody.  I'm telling you, if we had a vote, 
>> believe me, it would be a landslide.  I'm telling you a landslide.  The 
>> people, and these are all good honest people, have almost all of them 
>> played, all except those crooked people, duck duck something.  Those people 
>> who say they didn't play it, they haven't heard of duck duck something. 
>>  Let me tell you something, between you and me, these are very dishonest 
>> people, and you never can tell what they are telling you, the things they 
>> tell you.  Are they made up?  These things.  Are they lying?  These people. 
>>  I don't know, to be honest, I can't tell, but believe me a landslide we're 
>> having, because of this duck duck something game that we played, most of 
>> us, when we were children.  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[dougP]

Argh!  The insanity is spreading!

Gonna be a lng 4 years (heavy sigh).

dougP

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:11:05 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> OK, well, *practically *everybody.  I'm telling you, if we had a vote, 
> believe me, it would be a landslide.  I'm telling you a landslide.  The 
> people, and these are all good honest people, have almost all of them 
> played, all except those crooked people, duck duck something.  Those people 
> who say they didn't play it, they haven't heard of duck duck something. 
>  Let me tell you something, between you and me, these are very dishonest 
> people, and you never can tell what they are telling you, the things they 
> tell you.  Are they made up?  These things.  Are they lying?  These people. 
>  I don't know, to be honest, I can't tell, but believe me a landslide we're 
> having, because of this duck duck something game that we played, most of 
> us, when we were children.  
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:58:47 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> "Everybody"...?  There was no such game that I ever saw in New York 
>> City.   We did have "Tag You're It," though; and of course, the two games 
>> that of all things you ever learned in school were best able to prepare you 
>> for a career as a bureaucrat, "Mother May I" and "Simon Says."  
>>
>> On 12/02/2016 03:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> This is just classic.  I love it.  Who knew?  I feel like I did when I 
>> learned about Duck Duck Gray-Duck.  Everybody played a game called "duck, 
>> duck, goose" in grade school, right?  Wrong!  Everybody*except 
>> *everybody 
>> from Minnesota.  Everybody from Minnesota played a game called "duck, duck, 
>> gray duck".  Tell a friend from Minnesota that you played "duck, duck, 
>> goose" as a kid, and they will think you are pulling their leg.  
>>
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:31:56 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/02/2016 03:21 PM, John Hawrylak wrote: 
>>> > Bill stated; 
>>> > "...everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting 
>>> > season!..." 
>>> > 
>>> > The "deer hunting season" phenomena is standard from central PA out 
>>> > through the Midwest, especially in the industrial areas.  It may seem 
>>> > strange to west Coast foks, but is quite normal. 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>>
>>> When I moved from the Bronx to the Mid-Hudson Valley in 1958 I was 
>>> shocked to discover that the high school closed on the first day of deer 
>>> hunting season: so many teachers took the day off they couldn't keep the 
>>> school open. 
>>>
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>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Sky Coulter]

Bill,

That's awesome.

Sky in new west

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[sameness]

Holy Grant PetersEn Ghost Writer! I'd say today's visit really rubbed off 
on you, if not your keyboard.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:11:05 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> OK, well, *practically *everybody.  I'm telling you, if we had a vote, 
> believe me, it would be a landslide.  I'm telling you a landslide.  The 
> people, and these are all good honest people, have almost all of them 
> played, all except those crooked people, duck duck something.  Those people 
> who say they didn't play it, they haven't heard of duck duck something. 
>  Let me tell you something, between you and me, these are very dishonest 
> people, and you never can tell what they are telling you, the things they 
> tell you.  Are they made up?  These things.  Are they lying?  These people. 
>  I don't know, to be honest, I can't tell, but believe me a landslide we're 
> having, because of this duck duck something game that we played, most of 
> us, when we were children.  
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[LeahFoy]

I hail from North Dakota (which hereafter shall be referred to as God's 
Country) where deer hunting is also alive and well. There is no school on the 
opener to this day. 

Our friendly neighbors to the east in Minnesota are in muzzleloader season. One 
of my best friends just got her for a few days ago after hours in a tree, 
perched on a deer stand out in the cold. It was her first time missing the 
spinal cord, which affords a clean and quick death, but fortunately a liver 
shot is also deadly. She field dressed it herself and sent it to be processed 
at a meat plant as venison to feed her family.

I might also add that hunters are usually very respectful of wildlife and great 
conservationists. I add that because some not from the culture may have a 
different impression when they read this. 

Bill - Merry Christmas indeed! TWO new Rivendells?!? I don't know how you can 
stand the excitement. I nearly tipped over last year when we got my husband's 
Clem.

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

OK, well, *practically *everybody.  I'm telling you, if we had a vote, 
believe me, it would be a landslide.  I'm telling you a landslide.  The 
people, and these are all good honest people, have almost all of them 
played, all except those crooked people, duck duck something.  Those people 
who say they didn't play it, they haven't heard of duck duck something. 
 Let me tell you something, between you and me, these are very dishonest 
people, and you never can tell what they are telling you, the things they 
tell you.  Are they made up?  These things.  Are they lying?  These people. 
 I don't know, to be honest, I can't tell, but believe me a landslide we're 
having, because of this duck duck something game that we played, most of 
us, when we were children.  

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:58:47 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> "Everybody"...?  There was no such game that I ever saw in New York 
> City.   We did have "Tag You're It," though; and of course, the two games 
> that of all things you ever learned in school were best able to prepare you 
> for a career as a bureaucrat, "Mother May I" and "Simon Says."  
>
> On 12/02/2016 03:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> This is just classic.  I love it.  Who knew?  I feel like I did when I 
> learned about Duck Duck Gray-Duck.  Everybody played a game called "duck, 
> duck, goose" in grade school, right?  Wrong!  Everybody*except *everybody 
> from Minnesota.  Everybody from Minnesota played a game called "duck, duck, 
> gray duck".  Tell a friend from Minnesota that you played "duck, duck, 
> goose" as a kid, and they will think you are pulling their leg.  
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:31:56 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/02/2016 03:21 PM, John Hawrylak wrote: 
>> > Bill stated; 
>> > "...everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting 
>> > season!..." 
>> > 
>> > The "deer hunting season" phenomena is standard from central PA out 
>> > through the Midwest, especially in the industrial areas.  It may seem 
>> > strange to west Coast foks, but is quite normal. 
>> > 
>> > 
>>
>> When I moved from the Bronx to the Mid-Hudson Valley in 1958 I was 
>> shocked to discover that the high school closed on the first day of deer 
>> hunting season: so many teachers took the day off they couldn't keep the 
>> school open. 
>>
> -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Steve Palincsar]

"Everybody"...?  There was no such game that I ever saw in New York 
City.   We did have "Tag You're It," though; and of course, the two 
games that of all things you ever learned in school were best able to 
prepare you for a career as a bureaucrat, "Mother May I" and "Simon Says."



On 12/02/2016 03:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
This is just classic.  I love it.  Who knew?  I feel like I did when I 
learned about Duck Duck Gray-Duck.  Everybody played a game called 
"duck, duck, goose" in grade school, right?  Wrong! 
 Everybody/except /everybody from Minnesota.  Everybody from 
Minnesota played a game called "duck, duck, gray duck".  Tell a friend 
from Minnesota that you played "duck, duck, goose" as a kid, and they 
will think you are pulling their leg.


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:31:56 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:



On 12/02/2016 03:21 PM, John Hawrylak wrote:
> Bill stated;
> "...everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for
deer-hunting
> season!..."
>
> The "deer hunting season" phenomena is standard from central PA out
> through the Midwest, especially in the industrial areas.  It may
seem
> strange to west Coast foks, but is quite normal.
>
>

When I moved from the Bronx to the Mid-Hudson Valley in 1958 I was
shocked to discover that the high school closed on the first day
of deer
hunting season: so many teachers took the day off they couldn't
keep the
school open.

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Ryan Fleming]

And, of course, for customs , you have to be really, really 
 patient...that's one of the criteria ...and have other bikes to ride 
...that's another

But after seeing that purple Mixte a little while ago, I'm looking forward 
to what I'm gonna get.

Anyway, Bill ...2 new rivendells sounds pretty sweet  :) hope you  and your 
son  enjoy them!



On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Bill Lindsay]

This is just classic.  I love it.  Who knew?  I feel like I did when I 
learned about Duck Duck Gray-Duck.  Everybody played a game called "duck, 
duck, goose" in grade school, right?  Wrong!  Everybody*except *everybody 
from Minnesota.  Everybody from Minnesota played a game called "duck, duck, 
gray duck".  Tell a friend from Minnesota that you played "duck, duck, 
goose" as a kid, and they will think you are pulling their leg.  

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 12:31:56 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/02/2016 03:21 PM, John Hawrylak wrote: 
> > Bill stated; 
> > "...everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting 
> > season!..." 
> > 
> > The "deer hunting season" phenomena is standard from central PA out 
> > through the Midwest, especially in the industrial areas.  It may seem 
> > strange to west Coast foks, but is quite normal. 
> > 
> > 
>
> When I moved from the Bronx to the Mid-Hudson Valley in 1958 I was 
> shocked to discover that the high school closed on the first day of deer 
> hunting season: so many teachers took the day off they couldn't keep the 
> school open. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/02/2016 03:21 PM, John Hawrylak wrote:

Bill stated;
"...everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting 
season!..."


The "deer hunting season" phenomena is standard from central PA out 
through the Midwest, especially in the industrial areas.  It may seem 
strange to west Coast foks, but is quite normal.





When I moved from the Bronx to the Mid-Hudson Valley in 1958 I was 
shocked to discover that the high school closed on the first day of deer 
hunting season: so many teachers took the day off they couldn't keep the 
school open.


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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[John Hawrylak]

Bill stated;
"...everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting 
season!..."

The "deer hunting season" phenomena is standard from central PA out through 
the Midwest, especially in the industrial areas.  It may seem strange to 
west Coast foks, but is quite normal.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ, but from Pittsburgh PA, but never hunted, but knows many 
hunters, and all are normal

>
>

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[RBW] Re: News around today's RBWHQ visit

[Belopsky]

I was at a local Waterford dealer yesterday and two of the guys just 
ordered some Waterford frames. 2+months they were told.


On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:20:14 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Today I visited RBW headquarters to order a frameset.  This year I sold 
> two 700c Rivendells (a 58cm Atlantis and a 55cm Appaloosa) in order to help 
> pay for two 650B Rivendells.  I mocked up both of the 650B candidates to my 
> saddle height (75.5cm) and took the canonical garage door photo of each:  
>
>
> 
>
> 56cm 650B Atlantis
>
>
>
> 
>
> 53cm 650B Hunqapillar
>
>
> Notably the Atlantis was wearing 27.5 x ~2.2" knobbies, which made it look 
> super butch.  That's the main reason I'm sharing the photo(s) because that 
> 2017 Fat-Lantis is a bit of a novelty.  The 53cm Hunqapillar is a little 
> bit of a downsize for me, but I think that would be my son's go-to bike 
> when we do S24Os together, and he's an inch or two shorter than me and not 
> likely to get to 5'-10".  
>
>
> So, I went ahead and ordered the Atlantis, which is exciting.  I went with 
> a small upcharge to order a non-standard but Waterford stock color.  I will 
> keep it a secret, but I promise it is not a unique Atlantis color.  One of 
> you has an Atlantis that I am blatantly copying, because it looks so darn 
> good.  
>
>
> I was expecting a not-too-long turnaround, but Will explained to me that 
> everybody from Waterford takes massive time off for deer-hunting season! 
>  That cracked me up.  Anyway, now is just about the worst time for frame 
> turnaround from those good Wisconsinites.  No harm done to me, as I've got 
> plenty of other bikes to tide me over, but be warned if you are going to 
> order something, that you will be well into Spring before you get it.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
>
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
>

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