Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
That is precisely why I gave riding time rather than distance. There is a huge difference between 25 miles depending on if it is: mountainous single track, rolling desert dirt roads, or paved roads. Then adding in rider differences, and the equation spreads out even more. Regardless, if anyone does find themselves having to conserve water, breathe only through your nose. You lose dramatically less that way. I nose breathe all the time except when climbing at higher altitudes (usually starting at 11k feet). Since making the shift, I use 1/3 less water than without. Also, being low carb helps. For every gram of carbs processed, the body needs 3 grams of water (and ends up retaining that weight as well, that's part of why weight comes off so dramatically early on with a shift to low carb diet). With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:32:17 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote: One time when I was touring up in far northern California I started off the day with three full water bottles. Come mid-afternoon, they were empty, but I figured I only had 12-14 flattish miles, so I didn't go down to the Feather River to treat water. Stupid move. I had 14 miles through the desert into a headwind with no water. It was miserable, and when I finally found a bar, I just sat at the bar while the bartender fed me glass after glass of water before I could even think about anything else. The Oregon Outback is high desert, often with headwinds. I probably wouldn't die if I rode for five hours there without water, but I certainly don't want to do the experiment. And I'm a lot slower than Jan, so I need to adjust my water stops and water reservoirs accordingly. On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com javascript: wrote: Jan's point is excellent, and I'll say that most of us, regardless of conditions, could likely bike for five or more hours if need be without water. I've run in 100˚F+ Utah desert for over eight hours at high summer with 44 oz of water. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
My water consumption depends very much on the temperature. In the early morning, I often ride 50+ miles on half a bottle. (I usually start rides well-hydrated.) If it's very hot and dry, I may drink a bottle every 10 miles. Listening to my body is key to completing challenging rides. I also don't plan to ride for 5 hours without water. However, I also don't limit myself by the fear of discomfort. If I have a 5% chance of being very uncomfortable, but not seriously hurting myself, then that is a risk I am willing to take in exchange for an unforgettable experience. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
I'm not going to limit myself-- I'm going to do the Oregon Outback. And I'd say that there is, not a 5% chance, but a 100% chance, that at some point I'll be very uncomfortable. But I'm going to carry extra water. I'd rather arrive back with water to spare than ride 14 miles in the desert into a headwind. And if that makes me slower-- well, take a look at my sig. I'm not racing. I just want to have fun. (Not meaning to imply that racers aren't having fun, but I'm a tourist.) On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote: My water consumption depends very much on the temperature. In the early morning, I often ride 50+ miles on half a bottle. (I usually start rides well-hydrated.) If it's very hot and dry, I may drink a bottle every 10 miles. Listening to my body is key to completing challenging rides. I also don't plan to ride for 5 hours without water. However, I also don't limit myself by the fear of discomfort. If I have a 5% chance of being very uncomfortable, but not seriously hurting myself, then that is a risk I am willing to take in exchange for an unforgettable experience. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
Anne, You don't sound like somebody who is limiting herself. I was thinking about the people who write to me asking how I can ride these rides and not be scared. The precautions you plan to take are good ones. It's one thing to follow your dream, and an entirely different thing to be foolhardy. Funny thing about being tourists – I consider myself a cyclotourist, too. I stopped numerous times to take photos during the Oregon Outback. I had a choice between carrying a spare tire or my camera. It was an easy decision... When I raced, I carried neither! I hope to meet you at next year's Oregon Outback. I am sure you'll find the ride enjoyable and rewarding. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:50:14 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote: I'm not going to limit myself-- I'm going to do the Oregon Outback. And I'd say that there is, not a 5% chance, but a 100% chance, that at some point I'll be very uncomfortable. But I'm going to carry extra water. I'd rather arrive back with water to spare than ride 14 miles in the desert into a headwind. And if that makes me slower-- well, take a look at my sig. I'm not racing. I just want to have fun. (Not meaning to imply that racers aren't having fun, but I'm a tourist.) On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jan Heine hei...@earthlink.net javascript: wrote: My water consumption depends very much on the temperature. In the early morning, I often ride 50+ miles on half a bottle. (I usually start rides well-hydrated.) If it's very hot and dry, I may drink a bottle every 10 miles. Listening to my body is key to completing challenging rides. I also don't plan to ride for 5 hours without water. However, I also don't limit myself by the fear of discomfort. If I have a 5% chance of being very uncomfortable, but not seriously hurting myself, then that is a risk I am willing to take in exchange for an unforgettable experience. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
The 40 miles per bottle were on soft gravel in daytime, which resulted in more work per mile than the stretch from Fort Rock to Prineville, most of which is on harder gravel or even pavement. Plus, I did half of that stretch at night, with cooler temperatures. If I was concerned, I'd put a disposable water bottle or two in my jersey pockets, thus increasing my capacity by 40%. It's important to be prepared, but not be scared off. In the end, you just have to go out and do it! If you have to ride 20 miles without water, it'll probably be fine. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Monday, November 24, 2014 7:28:38 PM UTC-8, ted wrote: Thanks for weighing in with your experience Jan. Sounds like you got 40 miles per bottle, so with 3 bottles you had at least 50% margin for an 80 mile gap between water. No worries, pretty simple. I presume warmer sunnier conditions would reduce your miles per bottle, and would eat into that margin. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
Jan's point is excellent, and I'll say that most of us, regardless of conditions, could likely bike for five or more hours if need be without water. I've run in 100˚F+ Utah desert for over eight hours at high summer with 44 oz of water. I have biked 5+ hours being completely out of water. Yes, we need water to live, but not in the amounts we've come to believe. See Noikes' Waterlogged. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
I am lucky enough that pretty much nothing to do with my cycling is driven by need. I am way past needs and well into preferences. No doubt I could ride for 5+ hours without water without dying, but I rather think I would rather not. Ride without water that is. On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:17:55 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote: Jan's point is excellent, and I'll say that most of us, regardless of conditions, could likely bike for five or more hours if need be without water. I've run in 100˚F+ Utah desert for over eight hours at high summer with 44 oz of water. I have biked 5+ hours being completely out of water. Yes, we need water to live, but not in the amounts we've come to believe. See Noikes' Waterlogged. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
Jan, do most of the riders you know consume water at a similar rate? On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:07:35 AM UTC-8, Jan Heine wrote: The 40 miles per bottle were on soft gravel in daytime, which resulted in more work per mile than the stretch from Fort Rock to Prineville, most of which is on harder gravel or even pavement. Plus, I did half of that stretch at night, with cooler temperatures. If I was concerned, I'd put a disposable water bottle or two in my jersey pockets, thus increasing my capacity by 40%. It's important to be prepared, but not be scared off. In the end, you just have to go out and do it! If you have to ride 20 miles without water, it'll probably be fine. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Monday, November 24, 2014 7:28:38 PM UTC-8, ted wrote: Thanks for weighing in with your experience Jan. Sounds like you got 40 miles per bottle, so with 3 bottles you had at least 50% margin for an 80 mile gap between water. No worries, pretty simple. I presume warmer sunnier conditions would reduce your miles per bottle, and would eat into that margin. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
One time when I was touring up in far northern California I started off the day with three full water bottles. Come mid-afternoon, they were empty, but I figured I only had 12-14 flattish miles, so I didn't go down to the Feather River to treat water. Stupid move. I had 14 miles through the desert into a headwind with no water. It was miserable, and when I finally found a bar, I just sat at the bar while the bartender fed me glass after glass of water before I could even think about anything else. The Oregon Outback is high desert, often with headwinds. I probably wouldn't die if I rode for five hours there without water, but I certainly don't want to do the experiment. And I'm a lot slower than Jan, so I need to adjust my water stops and water reservoirs accordingly. On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: Jan's point is excellent, and I'll say that most of us, regardless of conditions, could likely bike for five or more hours if need be without water. I've run in 100˚F+ Utah desert for over eight hours at high summer with 44 oz of water. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
I think the longest stretch without water was about 40 miles, maybe a bit more during the night. I think the organizers carried a lot of water because they camped in places with no water. If you want to cook dinner, you'll need some extra water. I carried three large cycling water bottles. That meant that I could skip the first two places where I could have got water on or near the route. (It was an overcast day, so I didn't sweat a lot.) I refilled my bottles for the first time at mile 120. I think the ride is doable for most riders with just three bottles, even if you go slower and sweat more. You should use every opportunity to top off in some parts of the course, but it's never so remote that you'll die if you are stranded. Cars use those roads (or the one's paralleling the trail), even if infrequently. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
The organizers assert: Water is very limited in several sections of the route. There are points of interest (POI) on the GPS link above that note the last reliable water for the most significant sections, the longest of which is ~80 miles. There are several other sections of 50+ miles without reliable water. The organizers also do not identify any water sources between Fort Rock and Prineville, a distance of 80 miles. Do you know of water between those spots? On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote: I think the longest stretch without water was about 40 miles, maybe a bit more during the night. I think the organizers carried a lot of water because they camped in places with no water. If you want to cook dinner, you'll need some extra water. I carried three large cycling water bottles. That meant that I could skip the first two places where I could have got water on or near the route. (It was an overcast day, so I didn't sweat a lot.) I refilled my bottles for the first time at mile 120. I think the ride is doable for most riders with just three bottles, even if you go slower and sweat more. You should use every opportunity to top off in some parts of the course, but it's never so remote that you'll die if you are stranded. Cars use those roads (or the one's paralleling the trail), even if infrequently. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
There are a bunch of campgrounds about 10 miles or so before Prineville in the canyon of the Crooked River. There were tons of people camping there, and I would be very surprised if they didn't have water. There were some farms about half-way between Fort Rock and Prineville. Assuming they aren't abandoned, you probably could get water there in an emergency. You also cross a major highway around there. It may be worth while investigating whether that highway gets you to a town sooner, in case you really are running low. I didn't stop during that stretch, except to take a few photos, so my experience is limited. In any case, it's a splendid adventure, but there are also some stretches that are a little monotonous. As you pass Fort Rock, you are going straight toward the horizon for a few hours... Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Monday, November 24, 2014 9:24:33 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote: The organizers assert: Water is very limited in several sections of the route. There are points of interest (POI) on the GPS link above that note the last reliable water for the most significant sections, the longest of which is ~80 miles. There are several other sections of 50+ miles without reliable water. The organizers also do not identify any water sources between Fort Rock and Prineville, a distance of 80 miles. Do you know of water between those spots? On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Jan Heine hei...@earthlink.net javascript: wrote: I think the longest stretch without water was about 40 miles, maybe a bit more during the night. I think the organizers carried a lot of water because they camped in places with no water. If you want to cook dinner, you'll need some extra water. I carried three large cycling water bottles. That meant that I could skip the first two places where I could have got water on or near the route. (It was an overcast day, so I didn't sweat a lot.) I refilled my bottles for the first time at mile 120. I think the ride is doable for most riders with just three bottles, even if you go slower and sweat more. You should use every opportunity to top off in some parts of the course, but it's never so remote that you'll die if you are stranded. Cars use those roads (or the one's paralleling the trail), even if infrequently. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
Thanks for weighing in with your experience Jan. Sounds like you got 40 miles per bottle, so with 3 bottles you had at least 50% margin for an 80 mile gap between water. No worries, pretty simple. I presume warmer sunnier conditions would reduce your miles per bottle, and would eat into that margin. On Monday, November 24, 2014 8:49:14 AM UTC-8, Jan Heine wrote: I think the longest stretch without water was about 40 miles, maybe a bit more during the night. I think the organizers carried a lot of water because they camped in places with no water. If you want to cook dinner, you'll need some extra water. I carried three large cycling water bottles. That meant that I could skip the first two places where I could have got water on or near the route. (It was an overcast day, so I didn't sweat a lot.) I refilled my bottles for the first time at mile 120. I think the ride is doable for most riders with just three bottles, even if you go slower and sweat more. You should use every opportunity to top off in some parts of the course, but it's never so remote that you'll die if you are stranded. Cars use those roads (or the one's paralleling the trail), even if infrequently. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water
I carry three 28 oz bottles in my Hunqapillars bottle cages, and one empty 100oz. water bladder which I've cut the outbound hose very short on. I've done sections of various trails that have a day or two between water, and am very thankful I don't go through very much compared with most folks. What is really challenging is when a water spot your were counting on in dry for whatever reason (despite checking as much as possible online and using guides). That makes for a long 15 miles slog up and over the next pass. The most challenging section I've done was a section on the Great Divide MTB trail. I misread the map (and was using a very poor one without too lines at that) and thought I followed a stream up a valley. Instead I climbed a ridge that dropped to a stream way below, with no access. That led to an entire area with plenty of water, but none of it potable because of natural heavy metal deposits. I did get water after riding many steep miles and hours dry, though I don't remember exactly how (because I met someone who gave me water, I believe), then ran out again the next day until I was out of the non-potable area. A solution presents itself and is part of the adventure. Plan ahead as much as you reasonably can, then go anyway! Grin. With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:55:17 AM UTC-7, ted wrote: I am intrigued by the route but hough the trip sounds very appealing, it also sounds very daunting. For example this from http://velodirt.com/the-oregon-outback/: ... At the longest no-water section we each carried 2+ gallons of water. ... Yet Jan Heine did it on a rando bike, and several riders did it in about a day and a half. In another thread several posters say they are planing to do the ride next season. If some of them would comment on how much stuff they plan to carry and how they deal with water I would appreciate it. I am not sure how I would go about hauling 2+ gallons on my bike. Grocery panniers and a milk jug on either side? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
