Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

2018

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 3:26 PM David Person  wrote:

> No prob on the pedals.  Thought I'd throw it out there.  I have two
> individuals interested in the rims, so that worked out.  Do you know what
> year your Atlantis was made (approx)?
>
> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 11:22:32 AM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> I have plenty of VP pedals. I wish they were 650b :)
>>
>> The Atlantis arrived yesterday. Can't wait to build it up.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 7:07 AM David Person  wrote:
>>
>>> Hugh, too bad (for me) that you need 650b Voyagers,  as I have a set of
>>> 700c Voyager rims hanging up.  I built them up into wheels but decided to
>>> go with Dyads.  Could have made you a good deal.  I do have a set of silver
>>> VP Vice pedals in excellent condition, if you are in need of a pair.  I
>>> gotta get around to listing some of items it's time to purge from the
>>> collection.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 2:25:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Hiya Bill,

 I appreciate the compliment on the previous build. Good to hear your
 wheel tire combination work.

 On this build I'm going with a more around town lighter setup.

 Since I posted this on the forum I believe I've decided I'd like to run
 a tire from 47 mm up to~55mm. I may start out with a WTB horizon or byway.
 For rims I am leaning towards the Velo Orange Voyager rims in 650B setup
 tubeless. Unfortunately they're out of stock!!

 Albatross bars. I really want to keep my cockpit clean so I'm
 considering downtube shifters or stem shifters. My preference would be the
 downtube shifters, just simpler and cleaner lines. I don't care about
 indexing so friction is my preference. Drivetrain 9-speed with a white
 industries double crank.

 Small Nitto rack up front and small Nitto rear rack both of which I
 have. I'm considering Paul Minimoto brakes and I have Paul brake levers.
 Vice silver pedals to complete the build.

 Hugh

 On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, 12:29 PM Bill Fulford 
 wrote:

> Hugh, I run g ones 2.25 on my Atlantis with Atlas rims. The tire
> pushes the limit but does work. The tires are solid on turns. I have an
> older model Atlantis so they barely fit on the frame. I’m curious how you
> plan on setting up your bike. Your previous Atlantis is one of my
> favorites, a true touring bike!
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do
>> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 
>> 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
>> Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth 
>> it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and 
>> speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian 
>> rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
>> the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with 
>> let
>> me know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[David Person]

No prob on the pedals.  Thought I'd throw it out there.  I have two 
individuals interested in the rims, so that worked out.  Do you know what 
year your Atlantis was made (approx)? 

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 11:22:32 AM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> I have plenty of VP pedals. I wish they were 650b :)
>
> The Atlantis arrived yesterday. Can't wait to build it up.
>
> Hugh
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 7:07 AM David Person  wrote:
>
>> Hugh, too bad (for me) that you need 650b Voyagers,  as I have a set of 
>> 700c Voyager rims hanging up.  I built them up into wheels but decided to 
>> go with Dyads.  Could have made you a good deal.  I do have a set of silver 
>> VP Vice pedals in excellent condition, if you are in need of a pair.  I 
>> gotta get around to listing some of items it's time to purge from the 
>> collection.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 2:25:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Hiya Bill,
>>>
>>> I appreciate the compliment on the previous build. Good to hear your 
>>> wheel tire combination work.
>>>
>>> On this build I'm going with a more around town lighter setup.
>>>
>>> Since I posted this on the forum I believe I've decided I'd like to run 
>>> a tire from 47 mm up to~55mm. I may start out with a WTB horizon or byway. 
>>> For rims I am leaning towards the Velo Orange Voyager rims in 650B setup 
>>> tubeless. Unfortunately they're out of stock!!
>>>
>>> Albatross bars. I really want to keep my cockpit clean so I'm 
>>> considering downtube shifters or stem shifters. My preference would be the 
>>> downtube shifters, just simpler and cleaner lines. I don't care about 
>>> indexing so friction is my preference. Drivetrain 9-speed with a white 
>>> industries double crank. 
>>>
>>> Small Nitto rack up front and small Nitto rear rack both of which I 
>>> have. I'm considering Paul Minimoto brakes and I have Paul brake levers. 
>>> Vice silver pedals to complete the build.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, 12:29 PM Bill Fulford  wrote:
>>>
 Hugh, I run g ones 2.25 on my Atlantis with Atlas rims. The tire pushes 
 the limit but does work. The tires are solid on turns. I have an older 
 model Atlantis so they barely fit on the frame. I’m curious how you plan 
 on 
 setting up your bike. Your previous Atlantis is one of my favorites, a 
 true 
 touring bike!

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do 
> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 
> 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
> Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth 
> it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and 
> speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian 
> rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on 
> the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with 
> let 
> me know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>
 -- 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi David,

I have plenty of VP pedals. I wish they were 650b :)

The Atlantis arrived yesterday. Can't wait to build it up.

Hugh

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 7:07 AM David Person  wrote:

> Hugh, too bad (for me) that you need 650b Voyagers,  as I have a set of
> 700c Voyager rims hanging up.  I built them up into wheels but decided to
> go with Dyads.  Could have made you a good deal.  I do have a set of silver
> VP Vice pedals in excellent condition, if you are in need of a pair.  I
> gotta get around to listing some of items it's time to purge from the
> collection.
>
> David
>
> On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 2:25:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hiya Bill,
>>
>> I appreciate the compliment on the previous build. Good to hear your
>> wheel tire combination work.
>>
>> On this build I'm going with a more around town lighter setup.
>>
>> Since I posted this on the forum I believe I've decided I'd like to run a
>> tire from 47 mm up to~55mm. I may start out with a WTB horizon or byway.
>> For rims I am leaning towards the Velo Orange Voyager rims in 650B setup
>> tubeless. Unfortunately they're out of stock!!
>>
>> Albatross bars. I really want to keep my cockpit clean so I'm considering
>> downtube shifters or stem shifters. My preference would be the downtube
>> shifters, just simpler and cleaner lines. I don't care about indexing so
>> friction is my preference. Drivetrain 9-speed with a white industries
>> double crank.
>>
>> Small Nitto rack up front and small Nitto rear rack both of which I have.
>> I'm considering Paul Minimoto brakes and I have Paul brake levers. Vice
>> silver pedals to complete the build.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, 12:29 PM Bill Fulford  wrote:
>>
>>> Hugh, I run g ones 2.25 on my Atlantis with Atlas rims. The tire pushes
>>> the limit but does work. The tires are solid on turns. I have an older
>>> model Atlantis so they barely fit on the frame. I’m curious how you plan on
>>> setting up your bike. Your previous Atlantis is one of my favorites, a true
>>> touring bike!
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
 at $165 nope!

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let
 me know?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
 preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
 an esi like grip that's removes simply?

>>> --
>>>
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>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/32be1dca-bff6-4110-8bb5-507a51eeb71fn%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Brett Callahan]

Hi David, I might be interested in those 700c voyagers you're hanging onto. 
I'll send a PM, too, but I know they don't always come through. If you're 
interested in selling and don't get a PM, feel free to email me: 
waterfowl04 (at) gmail (dot) com

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 7:07:36 AM UTC-8 David Person wrote:

> Hugh, too bad (for me) that you need 650b Voyagers,  as I have a set of 
> 700c Voyager rims hanging up.  I built them up into wheels but decided to 
> go with Dyads.  Could have made you a good deal.  I do have a set of silver 
> VP Vice pedals in excellent condition, if you are in need of a pair.  I 
> gotta get around to listing some of items it's time to purge from the 
> collection.
>
> David
>
>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[David Person]

Hugh, too bad (for me) that you need 650b Voyagers,  as I have a set of 
700c Voyager rims hanging up.  I built them up into wheels but decided to 
go with Dyads.  Could have made you a good deal.  I do have a set of silver 
VP Vice pedals in excellent condition, if you are in need of a pair.  I 
gotta get around to listing some of items it's time to purge from the 
collection.

David

On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 2:25:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hiya Bill,
>
> I appreciate the compliment on the previous build. Good to hear your wheel 
> tire combination work.
>
> On this build I'm going with a more around town lighter setup.
>
> Since I posted this on the forum I believe I've decided I'd like to run a 
> tire from 47 mm up to~55mm. I may start out with a WTB horizon or byway. 
> For rims I am leaning towards the Velo Orange Voyager rims in 650B setup 
> tubeless. Unfortunately they're out of stock!!
>
> Albatross bars. I really want to keep my cockpit clean so I'm considering 
> downtube shifters or stem shifters. My preference would be the downtube 
> shifters, just simpler and cleaner lines. I don't care about indexing so 
> friction is my preference. Drivetrain 9-speed with a white industries 
> double crank. 
>
> Small Nitto rack up front and small Nitto rear rack both of which I have. 
> I'm considering Paul Minimoto brakes and I have Paul brake levers. Vice 
> silver pedals to complete the build.
>
> Hugh
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, 12:29 PM Bill Fulford  wrote:
>
>> Hugh, I run g ones 2.25 on my Atlantis with Atlas rims. The tire pushes 
>> the limit but does work. The tires are solid on turns. I have an older 
>> model Atlantis so they barely fit on the frame. I’m curious how you plan on 
>> setting up your bike. Your previous Atlantis is one of my favorites, a true 
>> touring bike!
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>>
>>> On with the question,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>>> quality and then later impressions.
>>>
>>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>>> at $165 nope! 
>>>
>>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>>> know? 
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>>
>>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/32be1dca-bff6-4110-8bb5-507a51eeb71fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hiya Bill,

I appreciate the compliment on the previous build. Good to hear your wheel
tire combination work.

On this build I'm going with a more around town lighter setup.

Since I posted this on the forum I believe I've decided I'd like to run a
tire from 47 mm up to~55mm. I may start out with a WTB horizon or byway.
For rims I am leaning towards the Velo Orange Voyager rims in 650B setup
tubeless. Unfortunately they're out of stock!!

Albatross bars. I really want to keep my cockpit clean so I'm considering
downtube shifters or stem shifters. My preference would be the downtube
shifters, just simpler and cleaner lines. I don't care about indexing so
friction is my preference. Drivetrain 9-speed with a white industries
double crank.

Small Nitto rack up front and small Nitto rear rack both of which I have.
I'm considering Paul Minimoto brakes and I have Paul brake levers. Vice
silver pedals to complete the build.

Hugh

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, 12:29 PM Bill Fulford  wrote:

> Hugh, I run g ones 2.25 on my Atlantis with Atlas rims. The tire pushes
> the limit but does work. The tires are solid on turns. I have an older
> model Atlantis so they barely fit on the frame. I’m curious how you plan on
> setting up your bike. Your previous Atlantis is one of my favorites, a true
> touring bike!
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me
>> know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
> --
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Bill Fulford]

Hugh, I run g ones 2.25 on my Atlantis with Atlas rims. The tire pushes the 
limit but does work. The tires are solid on turns. I have an older model 
Atlantis so they barely fit on the frame. I’m curious how you plan on 
setting up your bike. Your previous Atlantis is one of my favorites, a true 
touring bike!

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[James Cooper]

Id go with those cliff hangers based on the tire width you want to run. The 
A23 might work but it will look odd to have such a wide tire on a narrower 
rim. 

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:42:45 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hey Andy,
>
> Great minds think alike.
>
> I need to learn more about this Suzue Classica cassette rear. New to me. 
> I'll ask you the same question I've asked others. Do you think the Pacenti 
> Brevet rims would handle a 55mm tire well?
>
> Hugh
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:25 AM ascpgh  wrote:
>
>> I like shiny silver as well. My 650B rando bike has a SON front hub and a 
>> Suzue Classica cassette rear with Pacenti Brevet rims and 650B x 42 BSPs.
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>>
>>> On with the question,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>>> quality and then later impressions.
>>>
>>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>>> at $165 nope! 
>>>
>>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>>> know? 
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>>
>>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>>
>> -- 
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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Dean Henderson]

Hugh,

I have VO Grand Cru hubs on Homer... 2130.9 trouble-free, shiny, silent 
miles, so far. 

Dean

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Pancake]

I also wanted to point out the VO Voyager rim, exactly between the Atlas 
and Cliffhanger width, polished silver, rim brake and tubeless compatible. 
Excellent and will go on my "one day" wheelset when I'm ready for a dyno 
build with the best stuff (e.g., maybe some hub beyond Shimano's "great but 
not fancy looking" options). 

For anyone looking for *significantly cheaper but similar* width, tubeless 
ready rims, see that Alex Adventurer 
2 https://alexrims.com/products/adventurer2/ - sometimes called the 
Adventure. Ticks all the boxes EXCEPT it's not all silver (only the rim 
brake surface is silver). But a screaming deal at $36 / rim. I had some 
built by universalcycles (DT double butted spokes, LX hubs) so I could try 
a tubeless setup on my Hillborne - it was excellent until I put too much 
air in the tire and popped it of the rim (entirely my fault, didn't read 
the separate and lower tubeless PSI max limit on the rene herse website for 
my snoqualmie pass tires). Now with tubes I'm still very happy with them. 
Nice for 35mm-52mm wide tires. 

The old rule of thumb was "tire size should be about 2-3 times the rim 
interior width." Sheldon's thoughts on rim vs. tire width 
- https://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width
Many have said, and it seems supported by actual use reports, that the 
Panceti rims are nice with wider tires than the above chart indicates. 
Clearly 90's mountain bikes had narrower rimes relative to tire width 
(easily 3-4 times wider than the rim width) with success. In fact, there 
seems to be a consensus that there's a "wider" (forgive me) range than the 
Sheldon chart suggests.

Abe
On Friday, 5 February 2021 at 05:57:17 UTC-8 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> Hugh,
> No personal or first hand usage experience to offer and I've not yet had a 
> chance to fully read all replies so this may have already been mentioned 
> but it might be worth checking out Velo Orange's Voyager rim - it made it's 
> way onto my shortlist for a potential wheel build based on similar 
> wants/needs and the Voyager fits somewhere in between the Cliffhanger and 
> the narrower rims like the Dyad and Atlas, comes in silver finish, and 
> tubeless compatible. I forget the exact tire range VO stated for the 
> Voyager compared to the Cliffhanger but I at least recall the narrow end 
> was down to 38mm tires and covered a range of widths I'm considering.
>
> Best,
> Brian Cole
> Lawrence NJ
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>> at $165 nope! 
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>> know? 
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[ascpgh]

Hugh,

I am riding 650B x 42 BSPs on those Pacenti Brevet rims and it's taken me 
some time to get used to the smoothness they can provide without delving 
below the PSI necessary to keep the sidewalls structural enough for quick 
steering changes and high pedal efforts during a turn. I had to learn this 
envelope with the 700 x 32 Stampede Pass on my Rambouillet too. 

I can't imagine how badly a 55mm wide tire's sidewall would luff if I 
unknowingly got below that structure supporting pressure with them. I don't 
have experience with any wider tires on the Brevets, just the memory of 
summer 1988 in southwest Colorado and a new pair of Specialized HardPack 
2.2 (not the neutered HardPack II) tires. They provided me the baseline 
education regarding what is "just enough" PSI and how your intended riding 
dictates that, not your thumb, the pump dial or a couple of leans on the 
handlebar with the front brakes clamped. Ouch. Continental Divide decent 
ouch. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:42:45 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hey Andy,
>
> Great minds think alike.
>
> I need to learn more about this Suzue Classica cassette rear. New to me. 
> I'll ask you the same question I've asked others. Do you think the Pacenti 
> Brevet rims would handle a 55mm tire well?
>
> Hugh
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:25 AM ascpgh  wrote:
>
>> I like shiny silver as well. My 650B rando bike has a SON front hub and a 
>> Suzue Classica cassette rear with Pacenti Brevet rims and 650B x 42 BSPs.
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>>
>>> On with the question,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>>> quality and then later impressions.
>>>
>>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>>> at $165 nope! 
>>>
>>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>>> know? 
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>>
>>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>>
>> -- 
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hugh,
No personal or first hand usage experience to offer and I've not yet had a 
chance to fully read all replies so this may have already been mentioned 
but it might be worth checking out Velo Orange's Voyager rim - it made it's 
way onto my shortlist for a potential wheel build based on similar 
wants/needs and the Voyager fits somewhere in between the Cliffhanger and 
the narrower rims like the Dyad and Atlas, comes in silver finish, and 
tubeless compatible. I forget the exact tire range VO stated for the 
Voyager compared to the Cliffhanger but I at least recall the narrow end 
was down to 38mm tires and covered a range of widths I'm considering.

Best,
Brian Cole
Lawrence NJ

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[brendonoid]

I should have said that every fancy hub out there no matter the horrific, 
inexplicable pricetag pretty much all use the same 6902 bearings and if 
they ever wear out are very easily replaced. I had to replace the bearings 
in a Phil Wood and chucked $5 bearings in there and boom smooth as anything.

That said I still buy the expensive stuff because I'm an idiot. All the 
truly great hubs though are cup and cone shimano's from the 90s. Can't beat 
Japanese made stuff from the 90s. See used hub prices on Ebay. Sheesh.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[brendonoid]

In regards to the VO hub; I just relaced one I have been using on my 
commuter to it's 3rd rim. Had it since 2013? It is still going fine 
although I changed, weirdly, the bearings on the freehub a few years back 
because they had gone a bit crunchy, presumably from me being overly 
zealous with chain lube at some point washing dirt into them. The main hub 
bearings are still the originals and very smooth.

Caveats: Other than when I have serious accidents I seem to be super gentle 
on my gear and a bit obsessive about maintenance. I am over 6 foot and only 
80kgs and have hyperactive mechanical sympathy. Oher peoples mileage may 
literally vary. I also enjoy the silver look though its practicality in the 
long term has in recent years made it somewhat less desirable. Also *hate* 
setting up brakes on a polished rim.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Ben,

I did. Thanks you.

Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 6:48 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> Hugh,
>
> Sounds like you may have already found it, based upon your previous
> comment. But he is a link to the online article
> https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/
>
> Ben
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:11:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Weston,
>>
>> I haven't made it through Jan's entire argument yet still waiting for him
>> to talk tire pressure. So far he's said that the air not the tire side wall
>> hold bike and rider. To your point, that seems like a reasonable
>> expectation, low pressure vs medium to high pressures. To be honest I'm
>> just not sure,  I do recall on my Bantam running DT SWISS XR 551's i-40,
>> 44mm external wrapped with 3.0 schwabe Rocket Ron's with a pressure in the
>> neighborhood of 12- 15 psi the sidewall felt squishy and unsettling and led
>> me to run pressures between 18 and 20 PSI. I think my experience runs a
>> little contrary to yours in that one instance. I do think that there are so
>> many tire and rim combinations that it's hard to really pin it down as to
>> what's the ideal pressure. I think the ideal pressure is whatever the rider
>> decides based on their comfort and safety level. Obviously based on what
>> tire and rim combination they're running.
>>
>> I need to finish reading Jan's article. I'll report back.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:48 PM Weston Hein  wrote:
>>
>>> Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire
>>> pressure is the most important variable.
>>>
>>> I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a
>>> spin and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the
>>> rim the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run
>>> the 55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed
>>> with the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the
>>> AccuGauge. The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any
>>> instability.
>>>
>>> When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no
>>> difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument
>>> comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher
>>> pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you
>>> run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on
>>> the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.
>>>
>>> Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
>>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Bruce,

 I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?

 I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think
 I'd like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure
 which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas.

 Thanks,

 Hugh


 On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter 
 wrote:

> Hello Hugh:
>
> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow
> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to
> consider with 55 tires.
>
> Bruce
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Bruce,
>
> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm
> tire well?
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub
>> for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if 
>> you
>> can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I
>> built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More 
>> recently
>> I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious
>>> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone
>>> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences
>>> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire 
>>> roll
>>> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire
>>> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on 
>>> a
>>> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires
>>> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion 
>>> was

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

Hugh, 

Sounds like you may have already found it, based upon your previous 
comment. But he is a link to the online 
article https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/

Ben

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:11:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Weston,
>
> I haven't made it through Jan's entire argument yet still waiting for him 
> to talk tire pressure. So far he's said that the air not the tire side wall 
> hold bike and rider. To your point, that seems like a reasonable 
> expectation, low pressure vs medium to high pressures. To be honest I'm 
> just not sure,  I do recall on my Bantam running DT SWISS XR 551's i-40, 
> 44mm external wrapped with 3.0 schwabe Rocket Ron's with a pressure in the 
> neighborhood of 12- 15 psi the sidewall felt squishy and unsettling and led 
> me to run pressures between 18 and 20 PSI. I think my experience runs a 
> little contrary to yours in that one instance. I do think that there are so 
> many tire and rim combinations that it's hard to really pin it down as to 
> what's the ideal pressure. I think the ideal pressure is whatever the rider 
> decides based on their comfort and safety level. Obviously based on what 
> tire and rim combination they're running.
>
> I need to finish reading Jan's article. I'll report back.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:48 PM Weston Hein  wrote:
>
>> Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire 
>> pressure is the most important variable. 
>>
>> I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a 
>> spin and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the 
>> rim the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run 
>> the 55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed 
>> with the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the 
>> AccuGauge. The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any 
>> instability. 
>>
>> When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no 
>> difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument 
>> comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher 
>> pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you 
>> run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on 
>> the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.
>>
>> Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>> I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?
>>>
>>> I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think 
>>> I'd like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure 
>>> which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas. 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Hugh:

 The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow 
 compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to 
 consider with 55 tires.

 Bruce

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:

 
 Hi Bruce,

 And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm 
 tire well? 

 Hugh


 On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:

> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub 
> for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if 
> you 
> can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I 
> built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More 
> recently 
> I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious 
>> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone 
>> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences 
>> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire 
>> roll 
>> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire 
>> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on 
>> a 
>> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires 
>> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion 
>> was 
>> simply the j hook that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's 
>> but 
>> good god $165 per rim. I actually like the look of the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Weston,

I haven't made it through Jan's entire argument yet still waiting for him
to talk tire pressure. So far he's said that the air not the tire side wall
hold bike and rider. To your point, that seems like a reasonable
expectation, low pressure vs medium to high pressures. To be honest I'm
just not sure,  I do recall on my Bantam running DT SWISS XR 551's i-40,
44mm external wrapped with 3.0 schwabe Rocket Ron's with a pressure in the
neighborhood of 12- 15 psi the sidewall felt squishy and unsettling and led
me to run pressures between 18 and 20 PSI. I think my experience runs a
little contrary to yours in that one instance. I do think that there are so
many tire and rim combinations that it's hard to really pin it down as to
what's the ideal pressure. I think the ideal pressure is whatever the rider
decides based on their comfort and safety level. Obviously based on what
tire and rim combination they're running.

I need to finish reading Jan's article. I'll report back.

Hugh


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:48 PM Weston Hein  wrote:

> Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire
> pressure is the most important variable.
>
> I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a spin
> and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the rim
> the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run the
> 55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed with
> the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the AccuGauge.
> The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any instability.
>
> When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no
> difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument
> comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher
> pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you
> run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on
> the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.
>
> Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Bruce,
>>
>> I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?
>>
>> I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think
>> I'd like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure
>> which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Hugh:
>>>
>>> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow
>>> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to
>>> consider with 55 tires.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>
>>> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire
>>> well?
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>>>
 Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub
 for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you
 can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I
 built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently
 I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
 tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
 and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.

 On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Ben,
>
> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>
> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious
> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone
> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences
> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll
> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire
> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a
> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires
> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was
> simply the j hook that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but
> good god $165 per rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim.
> Although I can't recall where I heard this but they were difficult to set
> up tubeless? I may be wrong on this matter. If you have first had
> experience with the Pacenti I'm happy to listen/hear.
>
> Best,
>
> ~Hugh
>
> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Hugh,

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Weston Hein]

Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire 
pressure is the most important variable. 

I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a spin 
and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the rim 
the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run the 
55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed with 
the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the AccuGauge. 
The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any instability. 

When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no 
difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument 
comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher 
pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you 
run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on 
the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.

Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?
>
> I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think I'd 
> like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure 
> which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter  wrote:
>
>> Hello Hugh:
>>
>> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow 
>> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to 
>> consider with 55 tires.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire 
>> well? 
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>>
>>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub 
>>> for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you 
>>> can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I 
>>> built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently 
>>> I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Ben,

 You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.

 Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
 read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
 which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger 
 tires 
 and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
 cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
 had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
 rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 
 42mm. 
 As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j 
 hook 
 that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
 rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
 where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
 wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti 
 I'm 
 happy to listen/hear.

 Best, 

 ~Hugh

 “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
 moving.” ― Albert Einstein






 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> Hi Hugh,
>
> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
> as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>
> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer 
> a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of 
> Bicycle 
> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>
> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of 
> the best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. 
> I'm sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of 
> luck.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>
>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Bruce,

I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?

I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think I'd
like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure
which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas.

Thanks,

Hugh


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter 
wrote:

> Hello Hugh:
>
> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow
> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to
> consider with 55 tires.
>
> Bruce
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Bruce,
>
> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire
> well?
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged 
> wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub
> as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being
> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that
> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet
> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore
> off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.
>
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light
> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service 
> and
> the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace 
> them).
> All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
> wheelset, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Bruce Herbitter]

Hello Hugh:

The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow compared to 
the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to consider with 55 
tires.

Bruce

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire 
> well? 
> 
> Hugh
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>> 
>>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>> Ben,
>>> 
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>> 
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>> 
>>> Best, 
>>> 
>>> ~Hugh
>>> 
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
 Hi Hugh,
 
 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as 
 you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
 
 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
 counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
 
 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
 
 
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
> tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
> 
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as 
> medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being 
> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that 
> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet 
> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore 
> off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother 
> me. 
> 
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light 
> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service 
> and the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace 
> them). All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no 
> nonsense hub. Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're 
> looking for a lower price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed 
> another 135 qr wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the 
> excellent customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hey Andy,

Great minds think alike.

I need to learn more about this Suzue Classica cassette rear. New to me.
I'll ask you the same question I've asked others. Do you think the Pacenti
Brevet rims would handle a 55mm tire well?

Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:25 AM ascpgh  wrote:

> I like shiny silver as well. My 650B rando bike has a SON front hub and a
> Suzue Classica cassette rear with Pacenti Brevet rims and 650B x 42 BSPs.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me
>> know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Steve,

I like "I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the remainder of my
riding" I have a similar thought regarding this Atlantis build.

I know nothing about the Bitex hubs other than they are a UK based company.
I was actually planning on 32 hole rims. I currently weigh in at 180# and
figured that would be sufficient. I think the velocity quills or
cliffhangers would be great.

I think it's a good aesthetic :)

I appreciate to recommendation.

Hugh Smitham
LALA land


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:35 AM Steve Cole  wrote:

> Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I
> purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims.
> I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make
> my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub
> fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H
> Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are
> shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my
> wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not
> inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the
> remainder of my riding.  Good luck,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub
> as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being
> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that
> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet
> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore
> off and I stopped 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Bruce,

And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire
well?

Hugh


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:

> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for
> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can
> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built
> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I
> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
>> happy to listen/hear.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> ~Hugh
>>
>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Hugh,
>>>
>>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah
>>> as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a
>>> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
>>> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
>>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
>>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
>>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
>>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>>
>>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
>>> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
>>> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>>
 The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO
 touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35
 G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very
 easily tubeless using velocity rim tape.

 I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have
 minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub
 as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being
 unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that
 makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet
 it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore
 off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.

 Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light
 touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and
 the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them).
 All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
 Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
 price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
 wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent
 customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Weston,

Really helpful info much appreciated Sir. Considering the PNW climate
that's a pretty good review.

Hugh

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 9:29 PM Weston Hein  wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring
> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One
> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily
> tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal
> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium
> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually
> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you
> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down
> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I
> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.
>
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light touring
> and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and the
> bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). All
> in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent
> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>
>>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
>>> brake track.
>>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down
>>> the right hubs.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
 at $165 nope!

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let
 me know?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
 preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
 an esi like grip that's removes simply?

>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fbf2c16a-a744-4c77-9227-59306f8e8e0dn%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Mike,

I misstated,  velocity doesn't say "optimal" anything on the A23. I
extrapolated that from their specs. Meaning 35mm was their recommended max
tire width. They use the term"optimal" with the cliffhanger's specs. Sorry
for the confusion.


Specs

RIMS (CLICK FOR COLOR OPTIONS):
A23 650c  : 23mm - 35mm
tires
A23 700c  : 23mm - 35mm
tires
A23 OC 700c  : 23mm -
35mm tires


I think that's just what they feel comfortable listing perhaps based on
their testing? I ran 42mm on a similar velocity rim. Report back how your
47's do on these rims?


Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 9:39 AM velomann  wrote:

> "You'll notice the A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm"
>
> I'm not sure why Velocity says that. And what is "optimal max?" It seems
> like Optimal and Max are 2 different things?
> Anyway...
> I use the chart WTB has on their website here:
> https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart
> I've found it to be accurate and extremely useful.
> I will be running Panaracer Gravelking SK's - 650b x 47 - on these rims
> and expect it to be just fine based on experience with rims of similar
> width.
> BTW, Will at Rivendell recommended these rims for similar size tires.
> But I probably would go wider if I was interested in running 55's.
>
> MIke M
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>
>>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
>>> brake track.
>>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down
>>> the right hubs.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
 at $165 nope!

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let
 me know?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
 preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
 an esi like grip that's removes simply?

>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fbf2c16a-a744-4c77-9227-59306f8e8e0dn%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[velomann]

"You'll notice the A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm"

I'm not sure why Velocity says that. And what is "optimal max?" It seems 
like Optimal and Max are 2 different things?
Anyway...
I use the chart WTB has on their website 
here: https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart  
I've found it to be accurate and extremely useful. 
I will be running Panaracer Gravelking SK's - 650b x 47 - on these rims and 
expect it to be just fine based on experience with rims of similar width.
BTW, Will at Rivendell recommended these rims for similar size tires.
But I probably would go wider if I was interested in running 55's.

MIke M

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the A23's 
> optimal max tire width is 35mm 
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>
>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
>> brake track.
>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down the 
>> right hubs.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>>
>>> On with the question,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>>> quality and then later impressions.
>>>
>>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>>> at $165 nope! 
>>>
>>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>>> know? 
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>>
>>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fbf2c16a-a744-4c77-9227-59306f8e8e0dn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Patrick Cronin]

Hugh,

Here's a quick observation from master wheel builder Bill Mould, who 
inspected my abused White Industries MI5/Velocity Dyad wheelset:

Bill took a magnifying glass to each and every spoke hole and nipple and 
found significant flaking and cracks. He recommended replacing the rim. 
Next, he said, "let's see about this hub." He spun it in his hands and 
said, "Here, you hold this wheel while I spin it and then we'll swap it 
with this wheel over here with a brand new MI5 hub." There was no 
observable difference in feel. He then took the old wheel and placed it on 
the truing stand and spun it slowly; we laughed as it just kept on turning, 
refusing to stop. He smiled and said, "arguably the best hub ever made."

Spend the money on the White Industries hub. 

-Patrick



On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:35:02 AM UTC-5 Steve Cole wrote:

> Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I 
> purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims. 
>  I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make 
> my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub 
> fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H 
> Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are 
> shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my 
> wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not 
> inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the 
> remainder of my riding.  Good luck,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best, 
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer 
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very 
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have 
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the 

[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[lconley]

Any Velocity rim can be had in silver, they are simply not stocked in 
silver, you can also get polished or many custom colors. You can also get 
them in any drilling. It is only necessary to wait for the next production 
run. I have sets of polished silver 650B Cliffhangers in 40 spoke on my 
Bombadil and 48 spoke on my "Keven's" Bike (cargo bike). You just need to 
contact Velocity directly or have your wheelbuilder do it. I generally 
build my own, but also have had Peter White and Hands on Wheels build them. 
Their wheels are better than mine, but I am getting better.

I have had a set VO touring hubs - 9 speed shimano, for several year and 
have had no problems.

Laing 
Delray Beach FL

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[ascpgh]

I like shiny silver as well. My 650B rando bike has a SON front hub and a 
Suzue Classica cassette rear with Pacenti Brevet rims and 650B x 42 BSPs.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Steve Cole]

Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I 
purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims. 
 I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make 
my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub 
fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H 
Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are 
shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my 
wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not 
inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the 
remainder of my riding.  Good luck,

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:

> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>> happy to listen/hear.
>>
>> Best, 
>>
>> ~Hugh
>>
>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Hugh,
>>>
>>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
>>> as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
>>> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
>>> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
>>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
>>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
>>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
>>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>>
>>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
>>> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
>>> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>>
 The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 
 touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 
 G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very 
 easily tubeless using velocity rim tape. 

 I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have 
 minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub 
 as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being 
 unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that 
 makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet 
 it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore 
 off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 

 Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light 
 touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service 
 and 
 the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace 
 them). 
 All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
 Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
 price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
 wheelset, I'd choose these hubs 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Fullylugged]

Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
$61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Ben,
>
> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>
> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
> happy to listen/hear.
>
> Best, 
>
> ~Hugh
>
> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>
>> Hi Hugh,
>>
>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as 
>> you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>>
>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
>> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
>> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>
>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
>> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
>> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>
>>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
>>> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
>>> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
>>> tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>>>
>>> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
>>> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium 
>>> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually 
>>> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you 
>>> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down 
>>> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I 
>>> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 
>>>
>>> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light 
>>> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and 
>>> the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). 
>>> All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
>>> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
>>> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
>>> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent 
>>> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Hi Michael,

 Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the 
 A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm 

 https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

 And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
 schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.

 https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

 I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh

 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:

> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
> brake track.
> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Ben,

You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.

Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
happy to listen/hear.

Best,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
moving.” ― Albert Einstein






On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> Hi Hugh,
>
> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as
> you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.
>
> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a
> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>
> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>
>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring
>> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One
>> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily
>> tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>>
>> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal
>> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium
>> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually
>> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you
>> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down
>> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I
>> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.
>>
>> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light
>> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and
>> the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them).
>> All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
>> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
>> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
>> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent
>> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
>>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>>>
>>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>>
>>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
>>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>>
>>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>>
>>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>>
 Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
 brake track.
 I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down
 the right hubs.

 Mike M

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do
> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
> Does
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
> loud 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

Hi Hugh,

Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as 
you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 

I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
> tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium 
> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually 
> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you 
> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down 
> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I 
> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 
>
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light touring 
> and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and the 
> bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). All 
> in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent 
> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the 
>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm 
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>
>>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
>>> brake track.
>>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down 
>>> the right hubs.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
 Does 
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
 at $165 nope! 

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on 
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with 
 let 
 me know? 

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
 preference is a easily 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Weston Hein]

The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
tubeless using velocity rim tape. 

I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium 
loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually 
loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you 
focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down 
some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I 
stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 

Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light touring 
and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and the 
bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). All 
in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent 
customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the A23's 
> optimal max tire width is 35mm 
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>
>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
>> brake track.
>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down the 
>> right hubs.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>>
>>> On with the question,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>>> quality and then later impressions.
>>>
>>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>>> at $165 nope! 
>>>
>>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>>> know? 
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>>
>>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>>
>> -- 
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Michael,

Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the A23's
optimal max tire width is 35mm

https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.

https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?

Best Regards,

Hugh

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:

> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
> brake track.
> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down the
> right hubs.
>
> Mike M
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me
>> know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Ben,

I appreciate the feedback.

I was advised by a buddy with a ton more wheel knowledge than I that
the Pacenti rims  are targeted for Rando bikes with 42-47mm tires. They are
narrower than the HED or Quills. I'm going to run a ~55-57mm tire/2.25" g
one's. I think I could get away with the Pacenti's but he also said with a
larger tire it would have a greater tendency under low pressure and
cornering to lose its bead and fall off. Something about the j hook design.

Best,

Hugh


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:22 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> I built up a rear wheel for a friend's bike build using older generation
> VO Grand Cru hub. Was fine building up and riding. Alas, the bike wasn't
> ridden long enough for me to report on long term performance.
>
> An other option is Suzue's rear hub. I haven't used their rim brake hub,
> but I'm about to build up a disc brake one. That also seems fine in the
> hand. And I have a White Ind rear hub with over 1 km on it, so I know
> what that's like. I'm hopeful the Suzue will perform the same!
>
> As far as rims, you mentioned the HED belgium, but not Pacenti rims, any
> reason? I'm build that Suzue rear wheel with them. Almost half the price
> and lighter than equalilent velocity rims. I know some people don't like
> them, but I definitely think they're a great option
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:40:40 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hiya Joe,
>>
>> I agree the WI hubs are nice. I have a WI rear hub on my Bantam adventure
>> bike. The buzzing noise is cool except that to the horses in our area it
>> sounds like a rattlesnake :0 Honestly I was hoping to save a little bit of
>> coin on a wheel build. Seriously with the white industry hub it'll put the
>> wheel build nearly what I paid for the frame.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:34 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> I have polished WI hubs with Velocity Atlas rims that Rich @ Riv/Hands
>>> On Wheels built me. My rim choice won't help you and I can't vouch for V-O
>>> hubs, but White Industries is light and smooth and makes a cool buzzing
>>> sound at the freehub without being loud. Worth every penny in my opinion, I
>>> love em.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:10:46 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Nice to hear from you. I think I'm going to have pro-wheel builder
 build the wheels and I don't think the ones that you're getting from Peter
 White are an option? I think those are a custom option The velocity will
 do?? I look forward to seeing your build. Please post it up on the group
 when your finished.

 Hugh

 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:08 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> I just ordered a custom pair of silver anodized MSW Cliffhangers
> through Peter White Cycles, though they won't arrive until late March or
> early April.  I also had checked in with Velocity by email a few weeks 
> back
> and was told that their standard silver anodized rims (unlike my machined
> sidewall custom order) would be back in stock in mid February.  I believe
> they also make the Cliffhanger in a polished finish, but I'm not sure if
> those are in stock anywhere.
>
> Good luck with your "shiny" build.  My Cliffhangers will be part of a
> VERY shiny build on a Bombadil I'm working on.
>
> Willet M.
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:32:18 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do
>> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 
>> 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
>> Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth 
>> it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and 
>> speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian 
>> rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters 

[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[velomann]

Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
brake track.
I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down the 
right hubs.

Mike M

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

I built up a rear wheel for a friend's bike build using older generation VO 
Grand Cru hub. Was fine building up and riding. Alas, the bike wasn't 
ridden long enough for me to report on long term performance. 

An other option is Suzue's rear hub. I haven't used their rim brake hub, 
but I'm about to build up a disc brake one. That also seems fine in the 
hand. And I have a White Ind rear hub with over 1 km on it, so I know 
what that's like. I'm hopeful the Suzue will perform the same!

As far as rims, you mentioned the HED belgium, but not Pacenti rims, any 
reason? I'm build that Suzue rear wheel with them. Almost half the price 
and lighter than equalilent velocity rims. I know some people don't like 
them, but I definitely think they're a great option
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:40:40 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hiya Joe,
>
> I agree the WI hubs are nice. I have a WI rear hub on my Bantam adventure 
> bike. The buzzing noise is cool except that to the horses in our area it 
> sounds like a rattlesnake :0 Honestly I was hoping to save a little bit of 
> coin on a wheel build. Seriously with the white industry hub it'll put the 
> wheel build nearly what I paid for the frame.
>
> Best,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:34 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I have polished WI hubs with Velocity Atlas rims that Rich @ Riv/Hands On 
>> Wheels built me. My rim choice won't help you and I can't vouch for V-O 
>> hubs, but White Industries is light and smooth and makes a cool buzzing 
>> sound at the freehub without being loud. Worth every penny in my opinion, I 
>> love em. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:10:46 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Nice to hear from you. I think I'm going to have pro-wheel builder build 
>>> the wheels and I don't think the ones that you're getting from Peter White 
>>> are an option? I think those are a custom option The velocity will do?? I 
>>> look forward to seeing your build. Please post it up on the group when your 
>>> finished.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:08 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>

 I just ordered a custom pair of silver anodized MSW Cliffhangers 
 through Peter White Cycles, though they won't arrive until late March or 
 early April.  I also had checked in with Velocity by email a few weeks 
 back 
 and was told that their standard silver anodized rims (unlike my machined 
 sidewall custom order) would be back in stock in mid February.  I believe 
 they also make the Cliffhanger in a polished finish, but I'm not sure if 
 those are in stock anywhere.

 Good luck with your "shiny" build.  My Cliffhangers will be part of a 
 VERY shiny build on a Bombadil I'm working on.

 Willet M.

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:32:18 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do 
> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 
> 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
> Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth 
> it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and 
> speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian 
> rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on 
> the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with 
> let 
> me know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>
 -- 

>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
 Google 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hiya Joe,

I agree the WI hubs are nice. I have a WI rear hub on my Bantam adventure
bike. The buzzing noise is cool except that to the horses in our area it
sounds like a rattlesnake :0 Honestly I was hoping to save a little bit of
coin on a wheel build. Seriously with the white industry hub it'll put the
wheel build nearly what I paid for the frame.

Best,

Hugh

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:34 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I have polished WI hubs with Velocity Atlas rims that Rich @ Riv/Hands On
> Wheels built me. My rim choice won't help you and I can't vouch for V-O
> hubs, but White Industries is light and smooth and makes a cool buzzing
> sound at the freehub without being loud. Worth every penny in my opinion, I
> love em.
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:10:46 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Nice to hear from you. I think I'm going to have pro-wheel builder build
>> the wheels and I don't think the ones that you're getting from Peter White
>> are an option? I think those are a custom option The velocity will do?? I
>> look forward to seeing your build. Please post it up on the group when your
>> finished.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:08 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I just ordered a custom pair of silver anodized MSW Cliffhangers through
>>> Peter White Cycles, though they won't arrive until late March or early
>>> April.  I also had checked in with Velocity by email a few weeks back and
>>> was told that their standard silver anodized rims (unlike my machined
>>> sidewall custom order) would be back in stock in mid February.  I believe
>>> they also make the Cliffhanger in a polished finish, but I'm not sure if
>>> those are in stock anywhere.
>>>
>>> Good luck with your "shiny" build.  My Cliffhangers will be part of a
>>> VERY shiny build on a Bombadil I'm working on.
>>>
>>> Willet M.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:32:18 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
 at $165 nope!

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let
 me know?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
 preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
 an esi like grip that's removes simply?

>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8c7db431-429e-427a-b7be-f1516f0a386an%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Nice to hear from you. I think I'm going to have pro-wheel builder build
the wheels and I don't think the ones that you're getting from Peter White
are an option? I think those are a custom option The velocity will do?? I
look forward to seeing your build. Please post it up on the group when your
finished.

Hugh

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:08 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> I just ordered a custom pair of silver anodized MSW Cliffhangers through
> Peter White Cycles, though they won't arrive until late March or early
> April.  I also had checked in with Velocity by email a few weeks back and
> was told that their standard silver anodized rims (unlike my machined
> sidewall custom order) would be back in stock in mid February.  I believe
> they also make the Cliffhanger in a polished finish, but I'm not sure if
> those are in stock anywhere.
>
> Good luck with your "shiny" build.  My Cliffhangers will be part of a VERY
> shiny build on a Bombadil I'm working on.
>
> Willet M.
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:32:18 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me
>> know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8W1k4G1UUc/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8c7db431-429e-427a-b7be-f1516f0a386an%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

['WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I just ordered a custom pair of silver anodized MSW Cliffhangers through 
Peter White Cycles, though they won't arrive until late March or early 
April.  I also had checked in with Velocity by email a few weeks back and 
was told that their standard silver anodized rims (unlike my machined 
sidewall custom order) would be back in stock in mid February.  I believe 
they also make the Cliffhanger in a polished finish, but I'm not sure if 
those are in stock anywhere.

Good luck with your "shiny" build.  My Cliffhangers will be part of a VERY 
shiny build on a Bombadil I'm working on.

Willet M.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:32:18 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Thanks for your recommendation. Glad I could give you a laugh :)

Hugh

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 5:43 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I laughed out loud.
>
> Good luck with your question re: wheels! As for grips, I can offer a plug
> for the white Ergon grips, which somehow are much sportier than the black
> ones. I love them on my Platy, and I think they would look smashing on your
> Atlantis.
> Leah
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me
>> know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I laughed out loud. 

Good luck with your question re: wheels! As for grips, I can offer a plug 
for the white Ergon grips, which somehow are much sportier than the black 
ones. I love them on my Platy, and I think they would look smashing on your 
Atlantis. 
Leah

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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