[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Steve Cole]

Hi,

First, thanks to all who replied to my post and the questions I posed.  A 
lot of help, but so far not all of the problems have been solved.  I've 
played with the cable adjusters and the tension seems to be reduced 
somewhat.  The manual says, "When winding the cable adjusters out, the 
cable tension is increased."  This suggests that with the cable adjusters 
tightened all the way (in), the shifters should be easiest to turn.  I 
don't think there's much I can do beyond this to make shifting easier; I 
guess I'll develop a right forearm like a tennis pro, which should allow me 
to spin some yarns.

As for the freewheeling, I've pretty much isolated the issue to a couple of 
gear shifts -- from 5th to 6th and 10th to 11th, and the equivalent 
downshifts.  As others have noted, a slight pause and the shifting is 
pretty seamless.  I would have hoped and expected that shifting would have 
been seamless between all gears with the possible exception of the oft 
noted 7th to 8th.  Comments on this would be appreciated.

With respect to the questions asked by those of you who replied.  Here are 
some answers:

1.  The Simpleone normally has a 120 mm rear drop out spacing.  The Rohloff 
hub spacing is 135 mm.  Respecting is relatively easy for a steel framed 
bicycle.  My respecting was done by a custom frame builder.  He also reset 
the dropouts to ensure they are parallel.

2.  Some suggested that having the hub serviced might resolve the 
freewheeling issue.  Unfortunately, it was serviced completely just before 
the build.  Oh well.

3. Noise.  Some respondents suggested that their hub is pretty much silent. 
 I've found mine to be silent in the "upper register," gears 8-14.  7th 
gear is clearly the loudest and the other gears in the lower register also 
are accompanied with some friction-related noise.  I'm not bothered but am 
curious whether a perfectly operating hub should be virtually silent in all 
gears when not shifting.

Even with these issues, I find I falling for this bike.  I find myself 
finding opportunities to ride it that I might have otherwise passed up.  I 
also find I'm not want to take my AHH out as of yet.  It may still be the 
newness or my continuing curiosity about this new machine.  Still, I love 
the ride and the quirks.  More to come with more experience with it.

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA 22203 




On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff 
> and have been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The 
> experience is different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want 
> to see whether my experience is typical or uncommon.  
>
> I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I 
> don't want to clutter the discussion group postings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Evan Baird]

Have y'all seen these yet?

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2015/10/30/cycle-monkey-distributing-gebla-rohbox-us#.Vj-UnMvTnqA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/08/2015 11:52 AM, Steve Cole wrote:

Hi,

First, thanks to all who replied to my post and the questions I posed. 
 A lot of help, but so far not all of the problems have been solved. 
 I've played with the cable adjusters and the tension seems to be 
reduced somewhat.  The manual says, "When winding the cable adjusters 
out, the cable tension is increased." This suggests that with the 
cable adjusters tightened all the way (in), the shifters should be 
easiest to turn.


Screwing adjusters out increases cable tension, while screwing them in 
decreases cable tension.  One should not assume that cable tension has 
anything to do with whether shifters are easy to turn or not.   I've 
tried a number of different types of shifters, even a twist grip once or 
twice, and I don't recall any where the shifter became more difficult to 
turn (whatever that means) as you shifted into lower and lower gears.   
I think you need to look elsewhere to find the source of your problem.





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Re: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Daniel Jackson]

Get rid of the GB shifter; get a Rohloff shifter. Very likely this will ease 
shifting. I've seen this problem on a few GB setups and issues were solved with 
swapping out for a rohloff shifter. 

It may be that in these cases the recabling is what fixed the issue, but 
unlikely because in two cases I've seen both the GB and he Rohloff cabling were 
done by the same experienced mechanic. 

My 2 cents...

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Matthew J]

Front is 46.  Rear cassette is a Jeff Jones Bike modified Shimano 9 Speed 
.  Jeff altered the cassette 
so it works on a single speed hub, allowing a dishless wheel.

I tour mainly in the upper Midwest with its relatively flat terrain (but 
occasional and sometimes quite steep hills).  Jeff''s standard gearing was 
a little loose, so the gearing is now 14, 17, 20, 26, 30, 34.  

Unfortunately it does not appear Jeff is making these anymore.  I imagine 
you could do pretty much the same with a standard 9 speed cassette using an 
offset rim instead of dishless.  

Pictures of the bike here 
. 
 Handlebars are now MAP / Ahearne.  Wound up having to switch to TRP mini-v 
brakes as the Paul Mini Motos would not accommodate fenders with the tire 
size I wanted.  Too bad as the Mini Motos stop much better than the TRP.

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Matthew J]

> Curious: Since modern derailleur drivetrains are so amazingly reliable -- 
I can speak with certainty of 9 speeds and with some confidence about 10 
speeds, and 
> these both frictioned and indexed -- what is the value of Rohloff if you 
are not doing a world tour?

Pretty much what drove me to sell the Rohloff Oswald.  For the touring I 
do, 1x6 (the range carefully selected to incorporate my preferred gear for 
near every condition I encounter) works great.  The fact the rear wheel 
weighs so much less than the Rohloff is gravy.
>
>
Maybe if I ever find time to cycle the Andes ...

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[JohnS]

Please provide the details on your 1x6 set up. I've often thought about 
doing the same for my Salsa Casseroll.
 
Thanks!
JohnS

On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 7:00:26 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:

> > Curious: Since modern derailleur drivetrains are so amazingly reliable 
> -- I can speak with certainty of 9 speeds and with some confidence about 10 
> speeds, and 
> > these both frictioned and indexed -- what is the value of Rohloff if you 
> are not doing a world tour?
>
> Pretty much what drove me to sell the Rohloff Oswald.  For the touring I 
> do, 1x6 (the range carefully selected to incorporate my preferred gear for 
> near every condition I encounter) works great.  The fact the rear wheel 
> weighs so much less than the Rohloff is gravy.
>>
>>
> Maybe if I ever find time to cycle the Andes ...
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Matthew J]

> I think its the ultimate technology for worry-free world touring. Not 
everyone likes these hubs, but aside from incredibly rare hub flange 
cracks, Ive heard *zero* 
> legitimate problems with them. As of a few years ago, the record was many 
100's of K hubs with zero mechanical failures...  

Rohloff are definitely well made.  However the oil leak I experienced with 
mine and which another poster above experienced was indeed a legitimate 
problem with the early run.

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[BSWP]

I continue to be drawn to a Rohloph IGH for a new bike. One aspect that 
slows me down is getting the OEM2 torque arm fixed to the frame. I much 
much much prefer a clean install over the unsightly long extension links 
that I see, strapped to the left chainstay on many installs. And I have no 
interest at all in those cast rear dropouts that have been promoted for the 
hubs (like from Paragon) - they just ruin the clean lines of a frame, IMHO. 
What I've seen, that looks like a great solution, is a bit of custom 
fabrication in the rear triangle to give the OEM2 torque arm a fixing 
point, as done here:

http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Framebuilding/Wetmorian11/i-T4DZ3pX

Has anyone else found a similar clean way to anchor the OEM2 arm?

- Andrew, Berkeley

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Matthew J]

Another picture here 

.

(I still have those grips, BTW.  Have not since owned a bike in a color 
that works with white grips. 

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Matthew J]

Maybe I am biased, although as I say above, I never warmed to the Rolloff 
(Riv content: not long after selling this I bought my Hilsen), but I think 
Oswald did a very good job with the lines on my custom Rohloff 

. 

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 11:48:43 AM UTC-5, BSWP wrote:
>
> I continue to be drawn to a Rohloph IGH for a new bike. One aspect that 
> slows me down is getting the OEM2 torque arm fixed to the frame. I much 
> much much prefer a clean install over the unsightly long extension links 
> that I see, strapped to the left chainstay on many installs. And I have no 
> interest at all in those cast rear dropouts that have been promoted for the 
> hubs (like from Paragon) - they just ruin the clean lines of a frame, IMHO. 
> What I've seen, that looks like a great solution, is a bit of custom 
> fabrication in the rear triangle to give the OEM2 torque arm a fixing 
> point, as done here:
>
>
> http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Framebuilding/Wetmorian11/i-T4DZ3pX
>
> Has anyone else found a similar clean way to anchor the OEM2 arm?
>
> - Andrew, Berkeley
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Nick Payne]

I retrofitted a Litespeed Blue Ridge with a Rohloff hub about 17 years ago 
- I think my hub serial number is in the 2000s. It's never given me any 
problems, and has been toured on extensively, including several trips in 
Europe. It's definitely noisier in most gears than a well-adjusted 
derailleur setup, and vibration can be felt in several gears as well, but I 
don't think the efficiency is much different. When I started with it I used 
the recommended 46t chainring and 16t cog, but before a two month tour in 
Switzerland I swapped to a 38t chainring, which turned out to be a good 
choice, as we went up quite a few climbs with gradients like this:


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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Sam Day]

Ive got a Rohloffed Tout Terrain Silkroad, which is, as mentioned by others 
is very, very, bombproof, drivetrain and otherwise. 

I think its the ultimate technology for worry-free world touring. Not 
everyone likes these hubs, but aside from incredibly rare hub flange 
cracks, Ive heard *zero* legitimate problems with them. As of a few years 
ago, the record was many 100's of K hubs with zero mechanical failures...  

Agree that cable slackness/tension is likely the culprit for the OP's 
shifting woes. 

Regarding shifting itself, the gears are not as immediate to change as a 
derailleur with a clean drivetrain and new chain, but is on the order of a 
1/4 turn of the cranks or less. 

Some people take issue with the mechanical noise of the drivetrain itself, 
and I understand that, but save for the mental torture I've experienced on 
a few all-day climbs, the feeling of inefficiency has never really bothered 
me. I say* feeling* of inefficiency, because I recall that measured 
efficiency is not far off from a dirty drivetrain. 

The weight concentration in the back wheel is why Ive never been a fan for 
MTB use (original design intention of rohloff BTW)... but its a non-issue 
on the loaded touring bike. 

Finally, my favorite aspect of these hubs for loaded touring (aside from 
the incredible longevity of all drivetrain components) is the ability to 
shift to any gear while stopped. This is such a simple feature that 
functionally improves living with a loaded bike in hilly areas or stop and 
go situations quite dramatically. 

Pro tip: I bought my hub online years ago from starbike.com in Deutschland 
and got it for hundreds of $ less than the best US price (they remove 20% 
VAT). Same with Schmidt hubs.
 
Anyway, Be well.

Sam in Seattle, Denver, and Tucson. 




On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 2:26:33 PM UTC-7, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff 
> and have been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The 
> experience is different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want 
> to see whether my experience is typical or uncommon.  
>
> I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I 
> don't want to clutter the discussion group postings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>

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RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

He does, and he's extremely knowledgeable about them.  Great source.  I bought 
mine from Peter.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Dukeman in the 
foothills of Colorado
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 6:25 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

I'm enjoying this conversation. Very informative and interesting.
I'd love to use one on a future build.
Doesn't Peter White sell Rohloff hubs?
Jon


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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[ctbiker]

I’ll jump into the Rohloff discussion with a few of my data points:


I have two Dean bikes with Rohloffs, a mtb and a randonneur. My mtb is a 
29er and weighs 36# with dual suspension and S couplers while my rando 
weighs 31# with fenders over 32mm tires, dyno hub, S couplers and f/r 
lights. 


As has been mentioned, the Rohloff hub has a 526% overall range of gears, 
which means gear #14 is 5.26 times greater than gear #1. The hub gearing 
has 14 equally spaced gears of about 13% gain/loss between shifts. Gear # 
11 is the straight, unaltered gear with all others mechanically geared up 
or down. Gearing depends on wheel size, front chainring and rear cog. 


I just finished an offroad tour in Utah with Adventure Cycling and was very 
happy with the performance of my Rohloff. My mtb gearing is at the highest 
ratio Rohloff recommends with its 17 tooth rear cog with 32 tooth 
chainring. That’s 15 gear inches, equivalent to a derailleured bike with 
22t chainring and 42t rear cog.  If I understand it correctly, Rohloff 
claims using a smaller chainring or larger rear cog would overstrain the 
hub.


My Dean Randonneur came with 48t chainring and 16t cog. That gave a gear 
range of about 23 to 119 gear inches. That’s too high for me so I changed 
to a 39t chainring giving me18 to 96 gear inches. I rode this bike on my 
End-to-End in (very) hilly UK and loved its low end. I couldn’t keep up 
with my fellow riders in most places, but I often beat them up long, steep 
hills. 


As far as riding with a Rohloff, my experience is that it’s great if you’re 
riding with slower riders or by yourself but, if fellow riders are equally 
strong and on light bikes, you’ll soon be off the back or straining to keep 
pace.


Rohloff claims a 1000km break-in period, after which shifting effort and 
noise should be reduced.


For some Rohloff pros/cons from an expert, see 
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff-impressions.html


It’s been reported that Rohloffs never break down. Sarah Outen is presently 
finishing her round-the-earth human powered journey. She has biked, kayaked 
and rowed her way for over 25,000 miles. She chose a Rohloff for its 
reputed robustness but ”…we noticed that the phlange of the Rohloff hub 
(the centre barrell of the wheel which houses the gearing mechanism) had 
cracked in two places and would be causing bigger issues in time. 
...Hercules (her name for her bike), [after being worked on by a 
professional mechanic] is [now] doing well and his rear wheel should last 
until we reach Winnipeg and meet up with the replacement Rohloff hub, 
kindly provided by Santos bikes in the Netherlands." So they DO break.


During my End-to-End my shifter cable started disintegrating rapidly. It 
jammed the twist shifter. I was able to jury rig another cable but it was 
not optimum. I’d recommend for anyone traveling away from expert wrenching 
to replace their own cables before starting. Not only would you know you 
had good cables but you’d also learn the intricacies of the unintuitive 
cabling scenario.


Ray

Lisbon, CT

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

['doc' via RBW Owners Bunch]

What kind of gear/inch range do you typically get with the Rohloff?

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff 
> and have been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The 
> experience is different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want 
> to see whether my experience is typical or uncommon.  
>
> I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I 
> don't want to clutter the discussion group postings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Matthew J]

> So thanks to the moderators for putting my first reply in so late it 
makes me look like  moron. :-P

Forum has a single moderator with a busy life who does this as a labor of 
love.  We are very lucky to have him and this forum.

On topic - I was a very early Rohloff adopter - deciding on Rohloff early 
in the process of my first custom build.  

The technology is fascinating.  The quality undeniable.  

That said, I never warmed to riding a bike with so much weight concentrated 
in one spot.  I ultimately sold the bike to a favorite local mechanic who 
has continues to ride it through all the variety of weather Chicago throws 
at us.

For my part, I have gone to 1x set ups and single speeds which match my 
riding preference much better than IGH.  My current city bike has a 
Velosteel single speed coaster hub which I grow to love more with every 
passing ride.

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RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

One more comment about my Bombaloff/Rohladil.

Because the frame wasn't built with the Rohloff hub in mind, I had to do two 
things that would be unnecessary on a bike designed for the hub: (i) install a 
torque arm, to prevent rotation in the dropout; and (ii) use Rohloff's chain 
tensioner.  Neither one has caused the slightest problem, and I loved my Bomba 
from the moment I climbed on it (it was the first of 8 or 9 Rivs I've owned), 
so I have no regrets about these "fixes."  When I told Stephen Bilenky (who had 
just repainted the Bomba frame for me) that I was going to try a Rohloff hub in 
it, he asked me why I hadn't had him put in an eccentric bottom bracket.  Duh.  
Now that failure I do kind of regret.

I have to say, though – a Bombadil with a Rohloff hub is da bomb for loaded 
touring.  And a conversation-starter to boot.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 9:09 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

I agree.  I want to hear all about people's experiences with a Rohloff because 
I'm very interested in possibly going in that direction in the future.



On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 4:26:33 PM UTC-5, Steve Cole wrote:
I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond to 
some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff and have 
been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The experience is 
different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want to see whether my 
experience is typical or uncommon.

I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I don't 
want to clutter the discussion group postings.

Thanks,

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA
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RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

>From Sheldon:

"The Speedhub  36 500/14 has a gear range of 526%, which means that the highest 
gear is 5.26 times higher than the lowest gear. Across the entire range of the 
14 gears shifts increase or decrease in even increments of 13.6%."

I'm running mine with a 44 tooth ring and a 16 tooth cog, which (with a 650B 
wheel shod with Thunder Burts) gives this range:

Low

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

High

19.9


22.6


25.7


29.2


33.2


37.8


42.9


48.8


55.3


63.0


71.5


81.2


92.4


104.9



The equal steps, linear shifts, and ability to shift at a stop are clutch.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 9:15 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

What kind of gear/inch range do you typically get with the Rohloff?

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond to 
some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff and have 
been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The experience is 
different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want to see whether my 
experience is typical or uncommon.

I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I don't 
want to clutter the discussion group postings.

Thanks,

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA
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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Ginz]

Something is wrong.  The cables, I agree, are probably way too tight.  As 
for the "non-shifting" issue, try removing the external shift box (Assuming 
you have the external shift box.)  Put the bike in the workstand and try 
pedaling and shifting with a box end wrench.  If the probably persists, 
there is a demon in that hub.  Maybe contact Cycle Monkey and send it in 
for service.

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RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Wow – what a sweet-looking bike.  I wondered if Steve Cole was the Steve I 
remembered from the Boathouse – now I know.

I have zero issues shifting my Rohloff, except from 7th to 8th, and even then 
only when I try to make that shift under load.  All other shifts can be made at 
rest or under anything short of a full load (of course better not to shift an 
IGH under any significant load – I'm just reporting that it works if you do, as 
long as the shift cable is adjusted correctly).  Your experience is definitely 
NOT normal.  You shouldn't have to do anything to make the hub disappear when 
riding – to me, the ease of shifting – any time, without any advance planning 
-- is half the benefit of the hub.  (Of course, thinking ahead for upcoming 
shifts is fun, too.)

Like others, I would suggest that you loosen the cables.  If I recall 
correctly, I couldn't get mine to shift when I first installed it, and that was 
the solution.  That's several years back, though, so the memory may be faulty.



From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cole
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 9:21 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

Well, I guess I'll try to explain my situation.  I hope others find it of 
interest.

Background.  For a few years, I've been doing a deep dive on bicycles and 
cycling, a source of constant and great enjoyment. For years, I commuted to 
work on my 1968 Falcon San Remo, a bike that was my very first purchase with 
the first credit card I ever had (credit limit: $200; bike cost: $195).  As 
part of my deep dive, I had this bike restored.  I also have a 1973 Gitane 
tandem, also recently restored.  When I began my dive, I purchased a 
Kickstarter bamboo bike (see: www.herobike.com<http://www.herobike.com>; check 
out the Semester bike).  I found it great in some respects -- it had 650B Col 
de Vie tires which made for an extremely comfortable ride.  The frame, however, 
suffered from shimmy in the front end, which a need-bearing headset did not 
fix, so, I started to look for a more satisfying ride.   I found it in an  A 
Homer Hilsen (59cm), which I've been riding with great pleasure. (Tom, we met 
at Fletcher's Boat House, when you and the group that Pondero put together 
headed up the C I didn't go along.  I admired your Rohloff-converted 
Bombadil.) The AHH in addition to replacing the bamboo bike also replaced a 
Specialized Rubaix Comp and a Scott city bike.  I guess I'm always in search of 
the perfect ride.

When I heard about the Rohloff hub, I thought this might be the key.   It seems 
like Daniel, I had a fascination with the design, German engineering, and I had 
been riding a bike with an 8-speed Shimano Alfine IGH (the aforementioned 
Scott).  I liked the Shimano a great deal; the only issue for me was that it 
did not have sufficient range (I've since sold that bike) and thought the 
14-speed Rohloff would address this.   I found a used Rohloff, purchased it, 
and set it aside.  I wasn't sure what to do with it; I expected some 
opportunity would present itself.  When it did, I thought, I could learn how 
the Rohloff compared to my AHH drivetrain, a Shimano Deore Riv standard 
buildup.  It has even occurred to me that after some time riding both bikes, I 
would settle on one and make it my life's ride.  We'll see.

I purchased a Simpleone frame (58 cm) off the RBW list a couple of months ago 
to have it built up with my Rohloff.  I'd seen a similar conversion so I knew 
it could be done with some adjustments.  A framebuilder did respace and reset 
(make them parallel again) the rear dropouts to accommodate the wider hub 
(135mm vs 120mm).  I then had the bike built up mostly with components of my 
choosing -- Paul Cantis, Albatross handlebars, Brooks Saddle, Nitto stem, 
seatpost, and racks Shimano bottom bracket, SP dynamo and the Rohloff 
drivetrain, importantly with a Berthoud shifter rather than the standard 
Rohloff shifter.  The shifter choice was mostly aesthetic -- all of the other 
components are silver, so I wanted the shifter also to be silver -- the Rohloff 
shifter is black.  I also had the hub serviced and added an external gear 
mechanisms.  With the QR axle it came with, the external gear mechanism would 
make fixing flats pretty much like other bikes.

So, what are my issues? First, I find the shifter, a grip shifter,  incredibly 
difficult to turn from one gear to the next, up or down. I don't think I'm 
stronger or weaker than most riders.  Still, if the shifter were any more 
difficult to turn, it would come close to seeming frozen.  Second, when I 
change from almost any gear to the next highest or lowest, I often, but not 
always, find that for a revolution or so of the pedals I feel like I am not in 
gear.  When this happens, if I stop pedaling or pedal backwards I then can 
pedal forward in the gear I have chosen.  I've read about the problem with 
shifting fr

[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Deacon Patrick]

Welcome, Noel! If its any consolation, you did a much better job of it 
yourself with this comment. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 12:14:10 AM UTC-6, CyclesNoel wrote:
>
> So thanks to the moderators for putting my first reply in so late it makes 
> me look like  moron. :-P
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[CyclesNoel]

So thanks to the moderators for putting my first reply in so late it makes 
me look like  moron. :-P

WRT to the OP's question: I agree that the problem is probably that the 
cables are too tight. Backing off both adjustors half a turn or so will 
probably make a big difference. Of course, the Rohloff is never as 
quick/positive as a well set-up indexing derailleur, but I find that a 
half-revolution of "soft" pedaling is enough to allow a positive change, 
even between seven and eight.

I have found, though, that on hot days my hands are sweaty enough that 
turning the slick rubber shifter can be tough. I eventfully glued some 
skateboard tape onto the shifter. This looks like hell, but works a treat.

HTH, 

Noel

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 6:21:11 PM UTC-7, Steve Cole wrote:

> Well, I guess I'll try to explain my situation.  I hope others find it of 
> interest.
>
> *Background*.  For a few years, I've been doing a deep dive on bicycles 
> and cycling, a source of constant and great enjoyment. For years, I 
> commuted to work on my 1968 Falcon San Remo, a bike that was my very first 
> purchase with the first credit card I ever had (credit limit: $200; bike 
> cost: $195).  As part of my deep dive, I had this bike restored.  I also 
> have a 1973 Gitane tandem, also recently restored.  When I began my dive, I 
> purchased 
> a Kickstarter bamboo bike (see: www.herobike.com; check out the Semester 
> bike).  I found it great in some respects -- it had 650B Col de Vie tires 
> which made for an extremely comfortable ride.  The frame, however, suffered 
> from shimmy in the front end, which a need-bearing headset did not fix, so, 
> I started to look for a more satisfying ride.   I found it in an  A Homer 
> Hilsen (59cm), which I've been riding with great pleasure. (Tom, we met at 
> Fletcher's Boat House, when you and the group that Pondero put together 
> headed up the C I didn't go along.  I admired your Rohloff-converted 
> Bombadil.) The AHH in addition to replacing the bamboo bike also replaced a 
> Specialized Rubaix Comp and a Scott city bike.  I guess I'm always in 
> search of the perfect ride. 
>
> When I heard about the Rohloff hub, I thought this might be the key.   It 
> seems like Daniel, I had a fascination with the design, German engineering, 
> and I had been riding a bike with an 8-speed Shimano Alfine IGH (the 
> aforementioned Scott).  I liked the Shimano a great deal; the only issue 
> for me was that it did not have sufficient range (I've since sold that 
> bike) and thought the 14-speed Rohloff would address this.   I found a 
> used Rohloff, purchased it, and set it aside.  I wasn't sure what to do 
> with it; I expected some opportunity would present itself.  When it did, I 
> thought, I could learn how the Rohloff compared to my AHH drivetrain, a 
> Shimano Deore Riv standard buildup.  It has even occurred to me that after 
> some time riding both bikes, I would settle on one and make it my life's 
> ride.  We'll see.
>
> I purchased a Simpleone frame (58 cm) off the RBW list a couple of months 
> ago to have it built up with my Rohloff.  I'd seen a similar conversion so 
> I knew it could be done with some adjustments.  A framebuilder did respace 
> and reset (make them parallel again) the rear dropouts to accommodate the 
> wider hub (135mm vs 120mm).  I then had the bike built up mostly with 
> components of my choosing -- Paul Cantis, Albatross handlebars, Brooks 
> Saddle, Nitto stem, seatpost, and racks Shimano bottom bracket, SP dynamo 
> and the Rohloff drivetrain, importantly with a Berthoud shifter rather than 
> the standard Rohloff shifter.  The shifter choice was mostly aesthetic -- 
> all of the other components are silver, so I wanted the shifter also to be 
> silver -- the Rohloff shifter is black.  I also had the hub serviced and 
> added an external gear mechanisms.  With the QR axle it came with, the 
> external gear mechanism would make fixing flats pretty much like other 
> bikes.
>
> So, what are my issues? First, I find the shifter, a grip shifter, 
>  incredibly difficult to turn from one gear to the next, up or down. I 
> don't think I'm stronger or weaker than most riders.  Still, if the shifter 
> were any more difficult to turn, it would come close to seeming frozen. 
>  Second, when I change from almost any gear to the next highest or lowest, 
> I often, but not always, find that for a revolution or so of the pedals I 
> feel like I am not in gear.  When this happens, if I stop pedaling or pedal 
> backwards I then can pedal forward in the gear I have chosen.  I've read 
> about the problem with shifting from 7th to 8th gear and don't think this 
> is what am experiencing.  I worry that this isn't safe as I have less 
> control over the bicycle  and cannot depend on being able to do what is 
> sometimes needed to avoid problems.
>
> I have never ridden another bike with a Rohloff hub. I have no point of 
> reference -- I simply don't know what 

FW: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions, now S-A X-RF8

[olofstroh]

 

 

From: Olof Stroh [mailto:o...@stroh.ee] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:11 PM
To: 'rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions, now S-A X-RF8

 

I have no need for 14 gears and 526%, but have looked more than once upon 
Sturmey-Archers x-rf8 on the net. 8 gears and a comfortable difference of 14% 
between normal gears. Somebody with experience?

 

Olof Stroh

Uppsala Sweden

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RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Daniel M]

Another multi-Rohloff owner chiming in here. First, regarding shifting effort, 
it definitely requires more effort than a derailer or a Shimano IGH, but the 
reason is that you are feeling the effort required to change the gears in the 
hub itself, as opposed to just advancing the indexing in the shifter. That is 
to say, if you disconnect the shift box from the hub, the shifter will simply 
freewheel back and forth through its range. If you feel a shift, you got a 
shift, unlike the Shimano IGHs, which have a nice snappy click that only means 
that the shift cable moved; sometimes you are left waiting for he shift to take 
place. If, however, the shifting effort is as you describe, something is wrong 
with the cable or the shifter. I recently replaced my cable and housing for the 
first time after four years of touring and daily commuting, in addition to 
replacing my original twist shifter with the 2nd generation shifter (I kept the 
original as a backup), and the shift effort is reduced dramatically. It was 
perfectly fine before, even though the cable was starting to fray - now it's 
easier and has less free play. 

As for momentary freewheeling, this should never happen and the hub is covered 
by a lifetime warranty regardless of whether or not you are the original buyer. 
Contact Cycle Monkey; they will either fix it or swap in a new (maybe 
refurbished) gear mechanism into your existing hub/wheel. Of course, pausing 
while shifting cures most problems, but the hub is designed to never freewheel. 
And that's precicely why I'm so in love with my Rohloffs - the failure mode is 
still a workable condition that would allow me to finish any trip. Very low 
temperatures can cause the gear oil to gel which can result in freewheeling. In 
those conditions, you are advised to run a 50/50 mixture of the normal oil and 
the light cleaning oil. In extreme cold applications, you can run 100% cleaning 
oil, but if the bike is brought into room temperature, some of the thin oil can 
leak past the seals. 

My first Rohloff was a Craigslist find, new in box with all the documentation 
but between 5 and 10 years old. When I brought it to Cycle Monkey, they 
commented that my serial number was in the 10,000s, whereas production was past 
100,000 at that point. I originally had a wheel built and had the system 
retrofitted on to my old Gary Fisher Hoo Koo e Koo for touring with a Bob 
trailer. This required both the long torque arm and the chain tensioner. Both 
are so extremely well thought-out and executed that they never caused any 
hassle whatsoever. I did have a bit of freewheeling and Cycle Monkey made a 
small adjustment which fixed the problem.

Eventually, I realized that I wanted a fully rigid touring bike so I could run 
front panniers, so I went with a Thorn Raven Tour. Without any insult intended 
to Riv, it is a lot like a TIGed, Rohloff-specific Bombadil. It has a massive 
twin-plate fork crown, a big, simple, eccentric bottom bracket so no tensioner 
is needed, and an OEM 2 rear dropout which makes the torque arm unnecessary. I 
have done everything on this bike. Thousands of miles of fully loaded and 
self-supported tours including many miles of rough dirt roads and trails, plus 
everyday commuting and grocery getting, and the occasional cargo extravagance, 
like strapping a gas grill to the rear rack and riding it to a park for a 
picnic, or a case of beer in bottles on the rear and a full load of groceries 
in the panniers. In all that time, zero dropped chains, ever. Zero missed 
shifts, ever. Total maintenance in four years is two oil changes and one 
replacement of cables and housing. 

The bike is a tank, however; around 39lbs without anything on the racks. So I 
became obsessed with Surly's Troll, found a frame on Craigslist, and then found 
the ultimate Craigslist miracle: a Rohloff-equipped mountain bike for $1100. I 
bought it, removed the wheelset and drivetrain, converted it to single-speed, 
and sold it for about $600. My Troll is now up and running with Rohloff 
wheelset, 26"x60mm Schwalbe Big Apples, and Salsa Woodchipper bars. It's my 
first self-built, self spec'd bike, and it is so fantastically versatile it 
blows my mind. Slick tires and drop bars means long days on pavement are no 
problem. The huge air volume means fire roads and singletrack are completely in 
the realm of possibility with a little drop in air pressure. And the 
reliability of the Rohloff means I just jump on and ride with no thought to 
shifting, ever.

Daniel M
Berkeley, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Jon Dukeman in the foothills of Colorado]

I'm enjoying this conversation. Very informative and interesting.
I'd love to use one on a future build.
Doesn't Peter White sell Rohloff hubs?
Jon


>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Deacon Patrick]

I would be interested in learning your experience, Steve, and I don't see 
it as clutter for the group. The Quickbeam has been set up as a 2, 3, and 
14 speed, including by some folks on this list.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 3:26:33 PM UTC-6, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Daniel Jackson]

Hi Steve,

I'd be happy to help. And (obviously, as I've posted here), i agree with 
Deacon that this is likely not group clutter (despite the fact that Grant 
seems to dislike these divine pieces of German engineering). 

I've got two Rohloff rigs. One rando bike and one 29+ bikepacking 
singletracker. Currently in the MAP queue for a custom Rohloff rando frame. 
I have bikes with "normal" drivetrains (e.g. Hunq a la Riv build), but 
obviously am committed to IGH setups. 

Shoot away with questions, concerns, etc. Only questions I can't answer 
pertain to what some insidious German Rohloff engineer may have coaxed into 
the software for this black box of engineering (too soon?).

Rohloffs do rule.   

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff 
> and have been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The 
> experience is different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want 
> to see whether my experience is typical or uncommon.  
>
> I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I 
> don't want to clutter the discussion group postings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Deacon Patrick]

Steve, I don't have a Rohloff and have never ridden one, but the tactile 
description of shifting and not engaging triggered a memory that may or may 
not be accurate, but I had an recumbent trike with an IG BB, and I tactilly 
recall incorporating a brief, quick backpedal or stop pedal into the gear 
shifting process such that it was simply the way it worked. The memory 
thing itself is pretty cool, if it is accurate, as that almost never 
happens, but when it does it's smell or tactile memory.

Perhaps if you simply incorporate the pause/backpedal into your shifting it 
will become "normal"? and a non-issue?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 7:21:11 PM UTC-6, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> Second, when I change from almost any gear to the next highest or lowest, 
> I often, but not always, find that for a revolution or so of the pedals I 
> feel like I am not in gear.  When this happens, if I stop pedaling or pedal 
> backwards I then can pedal forward in the gear I have chosen.
>

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RE: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Well, since Deac and Daniel have suggested it's ok, I'll repost my private 
reply to Steve here.  Riv content – I installed my Rohloff on my Bomba.  I like 
it a lot, but the vote was not unanimous – one of my sons rode it for around 
100 miles, and disliked it.  But he's a single speed true believer.


Hi, Steve – I installed a Rohloff on my Bombadil a couple of years ago.  I 
probably have less than 1000 miles on it, and I like it a lot.  But my son (who 
was the first to ride it any distance (maybe 125 miles)) found it very tiring.  
In fact, he described the bike as a "dog."   OTOH, I just rode it on a three 
day trip on the C Towpath, and I thought it was great.  I was riding with a 
half dozen or so Riv owners, all on derailleured bikes, and I wasn't the 
fastest but wasn't the slowest, and I don't think the bike was holding me back. 
 As a theoretical matter, IG hubs are not as efficient as derailleur setups, 
but the Rohloff is renowned as the most efficient of the IGHs.  One of the 
gears (I think it's 7th?) is supposed to be noticeably less efficient than the 
others; I've never noticed that.  And one of the gears (maybe 9th?) is a direct 
drive, so the most efficient.  Those are both working from memory, but you can 
find all that information online.  Also, a number of Rohloff riders have 
remarked online that it took several hundred miles to break in the Rohloff, 
after which it becomes quieter and (I gather) a little more efficient.

I assume you had to respace the rear of your QB to jam a Rohloff in there – QB 
OLD is 120mm, as I recall, and the Rohloffs are 135mm.  Did you do it yourself 
or get a shop to respace it for you?  In what way is the Rohloff "more 
challenging"?  Just feeling more resistance from the hub?



From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Jackson
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 7:08 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

Hi Steve,

I'd be happy to help. And (obviously, as I've posted here), i agree with Deacon 
that this is likely not group clutter (despite the fact that Grant seems to 
dislike these divine pieces of German engineering).

I've got two Rohloff rigs. One rando bike and one 29+ bikepacking 
singletracker. Currently in the MAP queue for a custom Rohloff rando frame. I 
have bikes with "normal" drivetrains (e.g. Hunq a la Riv build), but obviously 
am committed to IGH setups.

Shoot away with questions, concerns, etc. Only questions I can't answer pertain 
to what some insidious German Rohloff engineer may have coaxed into the 
software for this black box of engineering (too soon?).

Rohloffs do rule.

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond to 
some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff and have 
been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The experience is 
different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want to see whether my 
experience is typical or uncommon.

I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I don't 
want to clutter the discussion group postings.

Thanks,

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA
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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I agree.  I want to hear all about people's experiences with a Rohloff 
because I'm very interested in possibly going in that direction in the 
future.



On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 4:26:33 PM UTC-5, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff 
> and have been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The 
> experience is different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want 
> to see whether my experience is typical or uncommon.  
>
> I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I 
> don't want to clutter the discussion group postings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[iamkeith]

Thanks for keeping the discussion public.  I'm a Roholoff true believer - 
though I only have one - and am interested in hearing  input and wisdom 
from this particular  group too.

To take a stab at some of your questions:  

-  The shifting can become very hard if the cables are too tight.  Try 
loosening them.  A lot.   It takes some getting used to and you'll think 
you're being sloppy about your wrenching skills, but the precision doesn't 
come from the shifter.  It's all indexed internally.

- I experience the same "between gears" feeling that you describe when 
riding in extremely cold weather - like 10 degrees F or colder.   I know 
the problem is that the oil bath is thickened and gummed up due to cold in 
my case, but perhaps its thick and gummed up due to age or dirt in your 
case?   If you haven't already, and since it's used, you should try a good 
cleanse and replacement of the oil bath.  Use the Rohloff cleaning oil.  
You can even use it to dilute the oil to make it thinner if it still 
"sticks" between shifts, which is now actually the new factory-recommended 
method for dealing with cold weather.

A question for you too:  I daydream about doing this to my quickbeam quite 
often.   I see you used the long torque arm for rotation resistance.   By 
any chance did you try or consider using the OEM axle plate, and using the 
long dropout slot to provide the rotation resistance?

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[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[Steve Cole]

Well, I guess I'll try to explain my situation.  I hope others find it of 
interest.

*Background*.  For a few years, I've been doing a deep dive on bicycles and 
cycling, a source of constant and great enjoyment. For years, I commuted to 
work on my 1968 Falcon San Remo, a bike that was my very first purchase 
with the first credit card I ever had (credit limit: $200; bike cost: 
$195).  As part of my deep dive, I had this bike restored.  I also have a 
1973 Gitane tandem, also recently restored.  When I began my dive, I purchased 
a Kickstarter bamboo bike (see: www.herobike.com; check out the Semester 
bike).  I found it great in some respects -- it had 650B Col de Vie tires 
which made for an extremely comfortable ride.  The frame, however, suffered 
from shimmy in the front end, which a need-bearing headset did not fix, so, 
I started to look for a more satisfying ride.   I found it in an  A Homer 
Hilsen (59cm), which I've been riding with great pleasure. (Tom, we met at 
Fletcher's Boat House, when you and the group that Pondero put together 
headed up the C I didn't go along.  I admired your Rohloff-converted 
Bombadil.) The AHH in addition to replacing the bamboo bike also replaced a 
Specialized Rubaix Comp and a Scott city bike.  I guess I'm always in 
search of the perfect ride. 

When I heard about the Rohloff hub, I thought this might be the key.   It 
seems like Daniel, I had a fascination with the design, German engineering, 
and I had been riding a bike with an 8-speed Shimano Alfine IGH (the 
aforementioned Scott).  I liked the Shimano a great deal; the only issue 
for me was that it did not have sufficient range (I've since sold that 
bike) and thought the 14-speed Rohloff would address this.   I found a used 
Rohloff, purchased it, and set it aside.  I wasn't sure what to do with 
it; I expected some opportunity would present itself.  When it did, I 
thought, I could learn how the Rohloff compared to my AHH drivetrain, a 
Shimano Deore Riv standard buildup.  It has even occurred to me that after 
some time riding both bikes, I would settle on one and make it my life's 
ride.  We'll see.

I purchased a Simpleone frame (58 cm) off the RBW list a couple of months 
ago to have it built up with my Rohloff.  I'd seen a similar conversion so 
I knew it could be done with some adjustments.  A framebuilder did respace 
and reset (make them parallel again) the rear dropouts to accommodate the 
wider hub (135mm vs 120mm).  I then had the bike built up mostly with 
components of my choosing -- Paul Cantis, Albatross handlebars, Brooks 
Saddle, Nitto stem, seatpost, and racks Shimano bottom bracket, SP dynamo 
and the Rohloff drivetrain, importantly with a Berthoud shifter rather than 
the standard Rohloff shifter.  The shifter choice was mostly aesthetic -- 
all of the other components are silver, so I wanted the shifter also to be 
silver -- the Rohloff shifter is black.  I also had the hub serviced and 
added an external gear mechanisms.  With the QR axle it came with, the 
external gear mechanism would make fixing flats pretty much like other 
bikes.

So, what are my issues? First, I find the shifter, a grip shifter, 
 incredibly difficult to turn from one gear to the next, up or down. I 
don't think I'm stronger or weaker than most riders.  Still, if the shifter 
were any more difficult to turn, it would come close to seeming frozen. 
 Second, when I change from almost any gear to the next highest or lowest, 
I often, but not always, find that for a revolution or so of the pedals I 
feel like I am not in gear.  When this happens, if I stop pedaling or pedal 
backwards I then can pedal forward in the gear I have chosen.  I've read 
about the problem with shifting from 7th to 8th gear and don't think this 
is what am experiencing.  I worry that this isn't safe as I have less 
control over the bicycle  and cannot depend on being able to do what is 
sometimes needed to avoid problems.

I have never ridden another bike with a Rohloff hub. I have no point of 
reference -- I simply don't know what is normal, what to expect.  If my 
experience is normal, I assume I will become increasingly familiar with the 
mechanism and will know what little things I can do in riding it to 
optimize performance. I may also look for other changes to address the 
shifter issue (e.g., a different shifter).  On the other hand, if what I 
have described is not normal, I want to know this so I can seek changes to 
the drivetrain to make it normal.

I welcome any and all advice, reactions, etc.  I truly want this experiment 
to work.  I'll  close by adding that already it seems to me that the 
Simpleone handles at least as well as the AHH, in fact, probably better. 
 If you have thoughts on this, I'd be interested as well.

Thanks,

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA

p.s. Here's a photo of the Simpleone




On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the 

[RBW] Re: Rohloff IGH Questions

[CyclesNoel]

A friend spotted this post and emailed me thinking I might be useful. I've 
been using the Rohloff on and off road for about five years and have built 
several frames for it. I'd be happy to try to address any questions - or if 
you really don't want to "go public", we can do the PM thing.

Noel H.
Orange County, CA.

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 2:26:33 PM UTC-7, Steve Cole wrote:

> I'm looking for a rider who is experienced with the Rohloff hub to respond 
> to some questions I have.  I recently converted a Simpleone to a Rohloff 
> and have been riding it for about a week, a couple of hundred miles.  The 
> experience is different than I expected -- more challenging -- and I want 
> to see whether my experience is typical or uncommon.  
>
> I would those who might help me to respond with a private message.  I 
> don't want to clutter the discussion group postings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>

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