subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Re\: What Is a Cheviot\?"

Ooh, are v-brakes a thing with this? Or just a (very good yes they should do 
it) wish? I've had so many conversations about this bike - I think I was the 
first "outsider" to know about it when Grant and Will mentioned it to me at RBW 
last year - that I've lost track of what I know and what's rumor and hope. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread JAS

Leah, count me in!  I want a Cheviot to compliment my Clem that lets me:

   - Feel light, agile and "fast" for road riding while upright and seeing 
   everything
   - Put one foot on the pavement when I stop at an intersection without 
   getting off the saddle (love that about Clem)
   - Easily lift the bike onto my One-Up rack or the bus rack (maybe it 
   will fit on the bus rack?)
   - Use fenders with a cushy tire
   - Use V-brakes which I like a lot 

I don't want that awful mustard color that seems to please a lot of people 
(sorry folks).  Blue is my thing, but I'd be open to something else that's 
pretty.
Let's get these Cheviots going and then I could just see us organizing a 
couple of group rides to gather the sheep. 

Let us know when you get the word from Vince!
--Joyce  

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I won’t rehash how *I* feel about the Riv mixtes, because I’ve belabored 
> that point, but I’d be really excited for you got join the club with the 
> rest of us. I just don’t see the downside of a mixte. I’m going to start 
> the hashtag on Instagram - #toptubeswhoneedsem. 
>
> Last I heard, YES, there will be a pre-order. And I think we’ll have our 
> answer about if/when the batch arrives soon. Hopefully Friday. I’ll be 
> happy to share that info if I hear and if Will says ok. 
>
> While I’m at it, should I get a head count here and tell Will how many of 
> you fine folks want your own Riv Mixte? Maybe that will really encourage 
> them to make the order... 
>
> Joyce, Ann, Leah...and Doug?  That’s 4, and I think that’s a pretty good 
> start. 
>
> Sent from my iPad 
>
> > On Mar 30, 2020, at 5:33 PM, DHans > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > I’ve been buying stuff from Joe B. and chatting by text with him about 
> Riv bikes. I’ve been considering either a Clem L or an Atlantis. But, this 
> topic is making me strongly consider a Cheviot. I like the idea of a lower 
> bar as my flexibility ain’t what it used to be. I’m enjoying these comments 
> too, Leah. I may just get in line when the new batch goes on sale. Will 
> there be a preorder? 
> > Doug 
> > 
> > -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread Leah Peterson

I won’t rehash how *I* feel about the Riv mixtes, because I’ve belabored that 
point, but I’d be really excited for you got join the club with the rest of us. 
I just don’t see the downside of a mixte. I’m going to start the hashtag on 
Instagram - #toptubeswhoneedsem. 

Last I heard, YES, there will be a pre-order. And I think we’ll have our answer 
about if/when the batch arrives soon. Hopefully Friday. I’ll be happy to share 
that info if I hear and if Will says ok. 

While I’m at it, should I get a head count here and tell Will how many of you 
fine folks want your own Riv Mixte? Maybe that will really encourage them to 
make the order...

Joyce, Ann, Leah...and Doug?  That’s 4, and I think that’s a pretty good 
start. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 5:33 PM, DHans  wrote:
> 
> I’ve been buying stuff from Joe B. and chatting by text with him about Riv 
> bikes. I’ve been considering either a Clem L or an Atlantis. But, this topic 
> is making me strongly consider a Cheviot. I like the idea of a lower bar as 
> my flexibility ain’t what it used to be. I’m enjoying these comments too, 
> Leah. I may just get in line when the new batch goes on sale. Will there be a 
> preorder?
> Doug
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread DHans

I’ve been buying stuff from Joe B. and chatting by text with him about Riv 
bikes. I’ve been considering either a Clem L or an Atlantis. But, this topic is 
making me strongly consider a Cheviot. I like the idea of a lower bar as my 
flexibility ain’t what it used to be. I’m enjoying these comments too, Leah. I 
may just get in line when the new batch goes on sale. Will there be a preorder?
Doug

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread Leah Peterson

Ann, I nominate us both. Let’s go crash their company meeting. We’ll wear masks 
and gloves. It will be fine.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 4:06 PM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I currently ride a Soma San Marcos and an Appaloosa.  For those not familiar, 
> the San Marcos frame was a collaboration between RBW and Soma Fabrications.  
> I think my San Marcos is closest to the Roadini, but I would be very 
> interested in hearing from someone who has ridden both as to the 
> similarities/differences.  I absolutely adore both my bicycles and ride one 
> or both everyday.  The San Marcos is stripped down, no racks or fenders, with 
> 35 mm tires, and is my good weather/easy to carry up stairs/fast bike.  The 
> Appaloosa has a rack, fenders, Wald bolt on basket and is my bad 
> weather/smooth rider/haul stuff bike.  I want a mixte because it will be 
> completely different from my other bikes and am already plotting how to build 
> it up to make it a unique ride.  
> 
> I also nominate you to be on the Design Committee (and will second myself, 
> that sounds like an awesome job). 
> 
>> On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 5:19:24 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> I hope they do a Blug post on the new Cheviot soon, Ann. Then we shall know 
>> all these vital details! And if they would like to put me on their Cheviot 
>> Design Committee, I nominate myself.  
>> 
>> Ann, what made you decide you wanted a mixte? What bikes do you currently 
>> ride? 
>> 
>> Fun!
>> Leah
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Mar 29, 2020, at 2:59 PM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch 
  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  I decided my next bike will be a mixte and am very interested in the next 
>>> batch of Cheviots.  Does anyone have information on the colors?  We haven't 
>>> seen a red yet for Rivendell's and that would be nice (GP: hint, hint, 
>>> hint).
>>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch

I currently ride a Soma San Marcos and an Appaloosa.  For those not 
familiar, the San Marcos frame was a collaboration between RBW and Soma 
Fabrications.  I think my San Marcos is closest to the Roadini, but I would 
be very interested in hearing from someone who has ridden both as to the 
similarities/differences.  I absolutely adore both my bicycles and ride one 
or both everyday.  The San Marcos is stripped down, no racks or fenders, 
with 35 mm tires, and is my good weather/easy to carry up stairs/fast 
bike.  The Appaloosa has a rack, fenders, Wald bolt on basket and is my bad 
weather/smooth rider/haul stuff bike.  I want a mixte because it will be 
completely different from my other bikes and am already plotting how to 
build it up to make it a unique ride.  

I also nominate you to be on the Design Committee (and will second myself, 
that sounds like an awesome job).  

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 5:19:24 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I hope they do a Blug post on the new Cheviot soon, Ann. Then we shall 
> know all these vital details! And if they would like to put me on their 
> Cheviot Design Committee, I nominate myself.  
>
> Ann, what made you decide you wanted a mixte? What bikes do you currently 
> ride? 
>
> Fun!
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 2:59 PM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> 
>
>  I decided my next bike will be a mixte and am very interested in the next 
> batch of Cheviots.  Does anyone have information on the colors?  We haven't 
> seen a red yet for Rivendell's and that would be nice (GP: hint, hint, 
> hint).
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Joe,

Ibid, and god bless. Have a great ride.

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 12:45:29 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Hey Ted, 
>
> We could argue about this for days and drive everybody crazy, but we're 
> probably all a little crazy from the coronavirus lockdown already so I'll 
> leave it at stuff I've already said. If I haven't convinced readers of my 
> POV by now, I'm not going to get there. It's a new week and I'm going 
> riding! ‍♂️

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Oy, crossposting! My reply is to the previous Ted reply, not the last Ted 
reply. Have I said "reply" enough? 

Joe "reply guy" Bernard

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Hey Ted,

We could argue about this for days and drive everybody crazy, but we're 
probably all a little crazy from the coronavirus lockdown already so I'll leave 
it at stuff I've already said. If I haven't convinced readers of my POV by now, 
I'm not going to get there. It's a new week and I'm going riding! ‍♂️

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

I completely agree that there are a host of good reasons to get a RBW 
custom, including "i want thinner tubes cause it's lighter and I just like 
knowing that my bike is a bit lighter and not unnecessarily stout".

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:39:02 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Also, I believe the issue under discussion isn't strictly about dropping a 
> couple pounds from a Clem, it's (if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly): 
> "I would like a nice new lugged steel Riv mixte in metallic cranberry red, 
> what's the best path to this outcome?"
>
> I have no stake in whether the young lady gets a custom or not, I'm just 
> not sure waiting for the Cheviot to land is worth it. In my opinion a 
> person in prime riding years with "bike priorities", as Grant says, who 
> uses the bike every day for transportation and can scrape up the cash, 
> should consider making the Riv Custom jump now. Especially someone 
> considerably lighter/smaller than the average Riv rider. Is what I'm 
> saying.   
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Hey Joe,

My perhaps ill informed view is that once you get reasonably stiff more 
stiff is not noticeable, and that rivs by and large are stiffer than what 
the flexy frame proponents have in mind. E.g. one notable guy once told me 
that an AHH was not a performance bike because it had oversize tubes and GP 
uses thick walls. So, thought experiment, if you built an AHH design bike 
with stouter tubing would it really have a different feel due to the 
increased stiffness? I'm skeptical but too cheep to run the experiment. 
Would GP sell a really flexy custom? I dunno. 

I may be less discerning than the average rider, but I regularly go on 
group rides where everybody else is on MCFRBs and I'm on a 19, 21, or 24 lb 
bike and I find what my numbers suggest quite plausible.

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 11:20:37 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Ted, it's a matter of stiffness and feel, too. I believe the difference in 
> frames are more noticeable to the average rider on a big hill than your 
> numbers suggest. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread Leah Peterson

Yeah, I realize what I want might not be actually possible. And I hear you, 
Ted, on weights of frames and stuff. I’m willing to go back to the drawing 
board, though. The lovely stable ride of the Clem may come at a cost that I 
can’t have in a whippier frame.

Will is working from home and thus answering emails, so I’m trying to get an 
estimate of when the Cheviots will arrive (spoiler alert: I don’t think it’s 
this summer any longer) and if ordering a custom would actually be FASTER.

I’ll keep you posted. 

On the other hand, I was remembering my little boy’s 20 inch Giant. Baby Bear 
was in 1st grade and I had decided that it was indeed possible to bike commute 
to and from our new school, even with the mountain in between. He was so proud 
to have a new, bright yellow and blue bike WITH GEARS, but when he tried to 
ride it up the hill he just struggled. He was so discouraged every day because 
my older son and I could do it much more easily. Baby Bear would always have to 
jump off and walk. One day I took it in for service and the mechanic, familiar 
with our hill because the roadies ride it, said, “Ma’am, if you have a 6 year 
old who will ride this bike up that hill and not complain or refuse, you have a 
very good kid. This bike weighs way too much.” I was stung. I felt terrible. I 
sold that lemon on Craigslist (sorry to whoever bought it!) and bought him an 
Islabike. He was a new kid. He danced up that hill from that day forth and 
never complained again. We called his bike The Red Rocket and Baby Bear was 
tickled.

I know the weight percentage differs, but the memory came to mind...

Leah
Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 11:06 AM, ted  wrote:
> 
> 
> Going from a 35 lb bike to one in the low 20s is a reduction of what say 13 
> lbs, or over 33%. Start from the lighter bike and the increase is over 50%. 
> That is a fairly extreme comparison.
> 
> The RBW page states a 55 Roadeo frame is just under 4 lbs. In the pre MIT 
> days think I heard an Atlantis frame was ~ 1 lb heavier than an AHH. Suppose 
> an AHH was another lb heavier than a Roadeo. That would suggest about a 2lb 
> delta between a Roadeo and an Atlantis. I think it's reasonable to guess a 
> custom light gauge Cheviot wouldn't be more than 2.5 lbs lighter than a 
> production frame and fork. With a $2600 upcharge that's over $100 per lb. Is 
> that good value? Is 2.5 lbs a big deal? Keep in mind how much fenders, racks, 
> baskets, bags, kickstands etc. can weigh. YMMV
> 
> It's a fact of physics that a lighter mass takes less work to push up a hill. 
> But physics doesn't tell us how noticeable a particular difference will be.
> Suppose our "light" rider weighs 100 lbs ready to ride, and the bike weighs 
> 25 lbs. Shaving 2.5 lbs off the frame and fork reduces the work of climbing a 
> steep hill ~2%.
> How noticeable is 2%? YMMV
> 
> I'm not a mountain biker, in the 80s i was riding road bikes, so I'm not 
> familiar with the bikes Mark references. However I can definitely tell the 
> difference between my Bombadil and my AHH, I just don't believe that's down 
> to the difference in frame weights. If Leah wants something that rides and 
> handles just like her Clem L but is substantially easier to ride up a hill, 
> I'm not at all certain than anything short of a motor is going to do that. 
> But I'd suggest starting by getting rid of anything not needed to make the 
> bike rideable (e.g. fenders, racks, baskets, bags) and then move to lighter 
> tires, wheels and components, I'd suggest chasing extra light gauge frame 
> tubes last. Oh, and make sure that lowest gear is sub 20".
> 
> Of course if she just has to have that lovely red Joe Bell paint job, well 
> hey the heart wants what it wants eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 1:05:09 PM UTC-7, Mark Roland wrote:
>> I would be the last one to tell people to get worked up about frame weight. 
>> But it is a fact of physics that lighter weight riders experience the ride 
>> qualities of many bikes differently -- partly as a frame to body proportion, 
>> partly as a power output/wattage proportion. Certainly high quality tires 
>> like Rene Herse will have an affect--Leah could put a set of Switchbacks on 
>> her Clem L for that matter. (Though he may have changed his opinion, Grant 
>> in the past has disputed the idea of supple tires being any better. On that 
>> I definitely disagree.) My son could ride the 35 pound vintage GT I built up 
>> for him, but when I got him a WOOM in the low 20s, it was a totally new 
>> experience, one that he immediately recognized. Not saying always "better" 
>> (though in Mack's case it was) but certainly "different." And that I believe 
>> is Leah's objective--a ride distinct from the Clem L ride qualities, such as 
>> they are.
>> 
>> I personally can be happy on almost anything these days--I'm loving, loving 
>> my overbuilt virtually stock 1980s mountain bikes right now for any rides, 
>> while I

Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Also, I believe the issue under discussion isn't strictly about dropping a 
couple pounds from a Clem, it's (if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly): "I 
would like a nice new lugged steel Riv mixte in metallic cranberry red, what's 
the best path to this outcome?"

I have no stake in whether the young lady gets a custom or not, I'm just not 
sure waiting for the Cheviot to land is worth it. In my opinion a person in 
prime riding years with "bike priorities", as Grant says, who uses the bike 
every day for transportation and can scrape up the cash, should consider making 
the Riv Custom jump now. Especially someone considerably lighter/smaller than 
the average Riv rider. Is what I'm saying.   

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Ted, it's a matter of stiffness and feel, too. I believe the difference in 
frames are more noticeable to the average rider on a big hill than your numbers 
suggest. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Going from a 35 lb bike to one in the low 20s is a reduction of what say 13 
lbs, or over 33%. Start from the lighter bike and the increase is over 50%. 
That is a fairly extreme comparison.

The RBW page states a 55 Roadeo frame is just under 4 lbs. In the pre MIT 
days think I heard an Atlantis frame was ~ 1 lb heavier than an AHH. 
Suppose an AHH was another lb heavier than a Roadeo. That would suggest 
about a 2lb delta between a Roadeo and an Atlantis. I think it's reasonable 
to guess a custom light gauge Cheviot wouldn't be more than 2.5 lbs lighter 
than a production frame and fork. With a $2600 upcharge that's over $100 
per lb. Is that good value? Is 2.5 lbs a big deal? Keep in mind how much 
fenders, racks, baskets, bags, kickstands etc. can weigh. YMMV

It's a fact of physics that a lighter mass takes less work to push up a 
hill. But physics doesn't tell us how noticeable a particular difference 
will be.
Suppose our "light" rider weighs 100 lbs ready to ride, and the bike weighs 
25 lbs. Shaving 2.5 lbs off the frame and fork reduces the work of climbing 
a steep hill ~2%.
How noticeable is 2%? YMMV

I'm not a mountain biker, in the 80s i was riding road bikes, so I'm not 
familiar with the bikes Mark references. However I can definitely tell the 
difference between my Bombadil and my AHH, I just don't believe that's down 
to the difference in frame weights. If Leah wants something that rides and 
handles just like her Clem L but is substantially easier to ride up a hill, 
I'm not at all certain than anything short of a motor is going to do that. 
But I'd suggest starting by getting rid of anything not needed to make the 
bike rideable (e.g. fenders, racks, baskets, bags) and then move to lighter 
tires, wheels and components, I'd suggest chasing extra light gauge frame 
tubes last. Oh, and make sure that lowest gear is sub 20".

Of course if she just has to have that lovely red Joe Bell paint job, well 
hey the heart wants what it wants eh?

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 1:05:09 PM UTC-7, Mark Roland wrote:
>
> I would be the last one to tell people to get worked up about frame 
> weight. But it is a fact of physics that lighter weight riders experience 
> the ride qualities of many bikes differently -- partly as a frame to body 
> proportion, partly as a power output/wattage proportion. Certainly high 
> quality tires like Rene Herse will have an affect--Leah could put a set of 
> Switchbacks on her Clem L for that matter. (Though he may have changed his 
> opinion, Grant in the past has disputed the idea of supple tires being any 
> better. On that I definitely disagree.) My son could ride the 35 pound 
> vintage GT I built up for him, but when I got him a WOOM in the low 20s, it 
> was a totally new experience, one that he immediately recognized. Not 
> saying always "better" (though in Mack's case it was) but certainly 
> "different." And that I believe is Leah's objective--a ride distinct from 
> the Clem L ride qualities, such as they are.
>
> I personally can be happy on almost anything these days--I'm loving, 
> loving my overbuilt virtually stock 1980s mountain bikes right now for any 
> rides, while I procrastinate on a few builds, including my Clem L. But I 
> can very much tell the difference between these and my Ron Kitching or my 
> Panasonic DX 5000 (and I have the advantage of being able to throw more 
> power at the heavier bikes) If Leah is looking for something that "feels" 
> substantially different than her Clem L, and the Betty didn't provide it, 
> I'm not at all certain a Cheviot will, even with fancy tires and red paint.
>
> On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 2:34:49 PM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>
>> Leah,
>>
>> I encourage you to try and avoid getting wrapped up in frame weight 
>> worries.
>> Though I'm not immune to bouts of weight weeniesm (I've got a sub 19lb 
>> black mountain and my AHH is under 21lbs) I think bike weight is at best a 
>> third order effect, and frame weight is only part of total bike weight. 
>> Choice of components tires etc, let alone bags with stuff in them can add 
>> up to more than the difference in frame weights. Bike weight is most 
>> noticeable when maneuvering the bike before or after a ride. I.e. up or 
>> down porch steps, on or off a car rack, etc. If your not bothered doing 
>> those sorts of things try to forget about it. If you are bothered by it, 
>> buy light parts, don't opt for the larger frame if you've got two options, 
>> and think about tubing last.
>> I also don't subscribe to the "too stiff" frame school. If you like 
>> feeling your fame flex when you stand on the pedals fine, but I don't care 
>> for it myself. Decades ago I was racing on a Nobilette sport touringish 
>> frame and between one weekend and the next I changed to a Gios Torino 
>> (italian race frame). The Gios was noticeably stiffer and quicker handling. 
>> I liked the ride better for racing but it did not make me slower or faster 
>> (note, that frame is

Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-30 Thread Lyman Labry

Everyone, great discussion on the Cheviot attributes and capabilities. I’m
new to Riv family. Thanks.
Lyman
ATX

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 5:19 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> I hope they do a Blug post on the new Cheviot soon, Ann. Then we shall
> know all these vital details! And if they would like to put me on their
> Cheviot Design Committee, I nominate myself. 
>
> Ann, what made you decide you wanted a mixte? What bikes do you currently
> ride?
>
> Fun!
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 2:59 PM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
>  I decided my next bike will be a mixte and am very interested in the next
> batch of Cheviots.  Does anyone have information on the colors?  We haven't
> seen a red yet for Rivendell's and that would be nice (GP: hint, hint,
> hint).
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Leah Peterson

I hope they do a Blug post on the new Cheviot soon, Ann. Then we shall know all 
these vital details! And if they would like to put me on their Cheviot Design 
Committee, I nominate myself.  

Ann, what made you decide you wanted a mixte? What bikes do you currently ride? 

Fun!
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 2:59 PM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  I decided my next bike will be a mixte and am very interested in the next 
> batch of Cheviots.  Does anyone have information on the colors?  We haven't 
> seen a red yet for Rivendell's and that would be nice (GP: hint, hint, hint).
> -- 
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> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Joe Bernard

Reiterating a thing because I think it'll get lost in the walls of texts I've 
posted (I've GOT to get off the internet, this is my last post on this thread): 

I think whatever Mark Nobilette's timeline will be on a Riv Custom will be 
somewhat reliable. Mine has slowed down in the paint booth because Joe Bell 
sent his help home, but the actual frame construction came along as expected 
(I'll have it in a few weeks). I'm not convinced any Cheviot timeline can be 
counted on right now. Ok bye ‍♂️

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Mark Roland

Reading this cross post, I'm confused again! Get one of everything. You 
don't have enough bikes yet anyway.

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 4:01:16 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Deborah, it’s a Jaguar!  Yes, I love this. 
>
> So based on your 5’ 2” height, did you get the 50 cm? What year did you 
> get your bike? I ask because I know the Cheviot is longer in later 
> iterations. The first gen wasn’t much different than the BF. I remember a 
> Lister named Michael saying his wife had a BF and daughter had a Chev and 
> there was no discernible difference. 
>
> Several folks have mentioned my Betty Foy, and that my Cheviot might be 
> too close in ride to the Clem L. I loved that Betty Foy for a lot of years, 
> but when I got a Clementine I loved that ride so much more. When I took 
> both bikes to my sister’s house we fought over who got the Clementine; it 
> was just that good. Neither of us could say why it was good, but IT JUST 
> WAS and when you know you know. Both bikes had Brooks and Bosco bars, and 
> were set up similarly - so it wasn’t the setup, it was in the marrow of the 
> bikes themselves. I’d have died happy with my Betty Foy if I hadn’t known 
> what a Clem felt like, but now that I do, the Betty plays second fiddle to 
> that unassuming Clem. I attribute the nice ride to longer chainstays, and I 
> figured that if I got the Cheviot I could have a nicer Clem-like ride but 
> with less weight to the bike. 
>
> I adore the Riv mixtes. They call to me. They look so romantic and lovely 
> and irresistible. I am so pleased to have the step-through Clem, but I 
> still want a Riv mixte for my 2nd bike. And if Rivendell made a 3rd mixte, 
> I might try to have that one, too. I just love love love Rivendell mixtes. 
>
> I have 2 inch tires and front and rear racks on my Clem and  I’m a lot 
> slower up hills than I was on my Betty. I ride it anyway because I love the 
> Clem ride and will just accept the extra workout that is piloting that big 
> Clem L. As I said, I have some muscles I wouldn’t have earned on a lighter 
> bike, and I’m pleased about that. 
>
> So, a lighter (and thus quicker) version of the comfy Clem ride is what 
> I’m trying to obtain, and maybe with $$$ light wheels and parts I can get 
> most of that. I suppose worst case, I could order a custom later with 
> lighter tubing. Though waiting too long for a custom worries me too, 
> because I don’t know what Rivendell’s future looks like in these dark 
> times. 
>
> Thanks for listening to all that. This thread has been so interesting. I 
> need to reread some of your responses again. So much great info. 
>
> Leah 
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad 
>
> > On Mar 29, 2020, at 11:16 AM, Deborah Coffin  > wrote: 
> > 
> > The first bike I tried when I visited Riv was the Cheviot I purchased. 
> I’d ridden the same Specialized road bike always, and I’d bonded with it 
> profoundly, but I hadn’t ridden a bike much in a long time. I tried a Surly 
> Long Haul Trucker—and really wanted to love it—but thought it felt really 
> stodgy somehow. It was a dull feeling, despite fitting me nicely. It made 
> me want my twitchy road bike. I’ll add that I used to be 5’4” and now I’m 
> 5’2” (I lost two inches by my early 40s, which I’m mentioning cause my legs 
> didn’t shrink). Anyway, when I saw the Cheviot, I thought it was the most 
> beautiful bike I’d ever seen, and when I rode it, I was stunned. It was 
> ridiculously comfortable, smooth, but NOT stodgy. I rode it up and down the 
> short steep entrance to a parking garage, over and over, sitting down, 
> something I’d never have done on my road bike. I had to have that bike—and 
> I insisted it had to be that exact one. I fell in love with it in a way 
> that’s hard to describe. I hadn’t wanted something so much in a long time, 
> but I’d never thought about paying so much for a bike. I’m still glad to 
> have it. I love riding again and have used it as my town and touring ride. 
> I use it to get groceries. I commuted with it, though I’m paranoid about 
> leaving it locked anywhere. The only place I’ve had trouble riding it was 
> when trying to climb a steep, super-narrow dirt hill; it felt like I might 
> flip over backwards. That might be from having the wrong tires? Maybe my 
> position?  I wondered if it was because the bike is relatively long? I 
> don’t normally ride trails like that one, so I don’t have enough experience 
> to account for it. 
> > But—I found my Cheviot really difficult to transport on my bike rack. I 
> wrote a post about it, got tons of ideas about how to resolve the problem, 
> none of which worked. So I bought a small Joe Appaloosa to stick on my car, 
> for when I drive to ride. 
> > I consider the Cheviot to be a Jaguar (not that I’ve driven one) instead 
> of a Cadillac. That’s just cause I think a Jaguar is sexier. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch"

Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Mark Roland

I would be the last one to tell people to get worked up about frame weight. 
But it is a fact of physics that lighter weight riders experience the ride 
qualities of many bikes differently -- partly as a frame to body 
proportion, partly as a power output/wattage proportion. Certainly high 
quality tires like Rene Herse will have an affect--Leah could put a set of 
Switchbacks on her Clem L for that matter. (Though he may have changed his 
opinion, Grant in the past has disputed the idea of supple tires being any 
better. On that I definitely disagree.) My son could ride the 35 pound 
vintage GT I built up for him, but when I got him a WOOM in the low 20s, it 
was a totally new experience, one that he immediately recognized. Not 
saying always "better" (though in Mack's case it was) but certainly 
"different." And that I believe is Leah's objective--a ride distinct from 
the Clem L ride qualities, such as they are.

I personally can be happy on almost anything these days--I'm loving, loving 
my overbuilt virtually stock 1980s mountain bikes right now for any rides, 
while I procrastinate on a few builds, including my Clem L. But I can very 
much tell the difference between these and my Ron Kitching or my Panasonic 
DX 5000 (and I have the advantage of being able to throw more power at the 
heavier bikes) If Leah is looking for something that "feels" substantially 
different than her Clem L, and the Betty didn't provide it, I'm not at all 
certain a Cheviot will, even with fancy tires and red paint.

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 2:34:49 PM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>
> Leah,
>
> I encourage you to try and avoid getting wrapped up in frame weight 
> worries.
> Though I'm not immune to bouts of weight weeniesm (I've got a sub 19lb 
> black mountain and my AHH is under 21lbs) I think bike weight is at best a 
> third order effect, and frame weight is only part of total bike weight. 
> Choice of components tires etc, let alone bags with stuff in them can add 
> up to more than the difference in frame weights. Bike weight is most 
> noticeable when maneuvering the bike before or after a ride. I.e. up or 
> down porch steps, on or off a car rack, etc. If your not bothered doing 
> those sorts of things try to forget about it. If you are bothered by it, 
> buy light parts, don't opt for the larger frame if you've got two options, 
> and think about tubing last.
> I also don't subscribe to the "too stiff" frame school. If you like 
> feeling your fame flex when you stand on the pedals fine, but I don't care 
> for it myself. Decades ago I was racing on a Nobilette sport touringish 
> frame and between one weekend and the next I changed to a Gios Torino 
> (italian race frame). The Gios was noticeably stiffer and quicker handling. 
> I liked the ride better for racing but it did not make me slower or faster 
> (note, that frame is in my garage rafters now).
> I think you would be better served by focusing on the ride and handling 
> you want and let GP and co worry about the tubing. I'm convinced that the 
> ride and handling of a bike are dominated by the geometry and the tires. 
> Unless the tubing is really light and you like bottom bracket flex under 
> power, the effect of tubing is way down in the weeds. I don't believe 
> substituting roadeo tubing into the cheviot geometry would result in a 
> mixte that rides like a roadeo. 
> When Riv "steered you toward production" did you tell them you wanted a 
> mixte that rides like a Roadeo? Is that what you want? If it is I expect GP 
> would say that is a custom.
> If you want a bike that rides like a Betty, Cheviot or Clem L but faster, 
> buy a production bike and put easier rolling more fragile tires, lower 
> narrower bars, and light components on it.
> Custom frame (4K) minus cheviot frame (1.4K) leaves $2600, you can buy a 
> fair number of fancy parts upgrades with that much money.
> Unless you have $$ to burn, I think a custom Riv only makes sense if the 
> geometry you want isn't available any other way.
>
>
> On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 9:51:12 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Ugh, I know that Melanie and Mark make excellent points. Points I weighed 
>> when I was trying to decide custom mixte vs. production mixte. I knew that 
>> Riv would steer me toward production, and they did, and it seemed like I 
>> could get enough of what I wanted with a Cheviot. But the more I think 
>> about it, I wonder if I should just pay the extra money and get in 
>> Nobilette’s line.
>>
>> I also wonder if I’m making up problems I don’t have. I *can* pedal a 
>> Rivendell just fine; it’s just that a custom could be mo’ better. Is that 
>> worth the extra money? I do have kids to put through college, you know...
>>
>> How light is Roadeo tubing? If, and it’s a big if, I were to make a mixte 
>> out of it, I wonder if it would be strong enough...
>>
>> But the other really big factor here is if the Cheviots are being 
>> extensively delayed. I was hoping to have

Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Leah Peterson

Deborah, it’s a Jaguar!  Yes, I love this. 

So based on your 5’ 2” height, did you get the 50 cm? What year did you get 
your bike? I ask because I know the Cheviot is longer in later iterations. The 
first gen wasn’t much different than the BF. I remember a Lister named Michael 
saying his wife had a BF and daughter had a Chev and there was no discernible 
difference. 

Several folks have mentioned my Betty Foy, and that my Cheviot might be too 
close in ride to the Clem L. I loved that Betty Foy for a lot of years, but 
when I got a Clementine I loved that ride so much more. When I took both bikes 
to my sister’s house we fought over who got the Clementine; it was just that 
good. Neither of us could say why it was good, but IT JUST WAS and when you 
know you know. Both bikes had Brooks and Bosco bars, and were set up similarly 
- so it wasn’t the setup, it was in the marrow of the bikes themselves. I’d 
have died happy with my Betty Foy if I hadn’t known what a Clem felt like, but 
now that I do, the Betty plays second fiddle to that unassuming Clem. I 
attribute the nice ride to longer chainstays, and I figured that if I got the 
Cheviot I could have a nicer Clem-like ride but with less weight to the bike.

I adore the Riv mixtes. They call to me. They look so romantic and lovely and 
irresistible. I am so pleased to have the step-through Clem, but I still want a 
Riv mixte for my 2nd bike. And if Rivendell made a 3rd mixte, I might try to 
have that one, too. I just love love love Rivendell mixtes. 

I have 2 inch tires and front and rear racks on my Clem and  I’m a lot slower 
up hills than I was on my Betty. I ride it anyway because I love the Clem ride 
and will just accept the extra workout that is piloting that big Clem L. As I 
said, I have some muscles I wouldn’t have earned on a lighter bike, and I’m 
pleased about that. 

So, a lighter (and thus quicker) version of the comfy Clem ride is what I’m 
trying to obtain, and maybe with $$$ light wheels and parts I can get most of 
that. I suppose worst case, I could order a custom later with lighter tubing. 
Though waiting too long for a custom worries me too, because I don’t know what 
Rivendell’s future looks like in these dark times. 

Thanks for listening to all that. This thread has been so interesting. I need 
to reread some of your responses again. So much great info. 

Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 11:16 AM, Deborah Coffin  wrote:
> 
> The first bike I tried when I visited Riv was the Cheviot I purchased. I’d 
> ridden the same Specialized road bike always, and I’d bonded with it 
> profoundly, but I hadn’t ridden a bike much in a long time. I tried a Surly 
> Long Haul Trucker—and really wanted to love it—but thought it felt really 
> stodgy somehow. It was a dull feeling, despite fitting me nicely. It made me 
> want my twitchy road bike. I’ll add that I used to be 5’4” and now I’m 5’2” 
> (I lost two inches by my early 40s, which I’m mentioning cause my legs didn’t 
> shrink). Anyway, when I saw the Cheviot, I thought it was the most beautiful 
> bike I’d ever seen, and when I rode it, I was stunned. It was ridiculously 
> comfortable, smooth, but NOT stodgy. I rode it up and down the short steep 
> entrance to a parking garage, over and over, sitting down, something I’d 
> never have done on my road bike. I had to have that bike—and I insisted it 
> had to be that exact one. I fell in love with it in a way that’s hard to 
> describe. I hadn’t wanted something so much in a long time, but I’d never 
> thought about paying so much for a bike. I’m still glad to have it. I love 
> riding again and have used it as my town and touring ride. I use it to get 
> groceries. I commuted with it, though I’m paranoid about leaving it locked 
> anywhere. The only place I’ve had trouble riding it was when trying to climb 
> a steep, super-narrow dirt hill; it felt like I might flip over backwards. 
> That might be from having the wrong tires? Maybe my position?  I wondered if 
> it was because the bike is relatively long? I don’t normally ride trails like 
> that one, so I don’t have enough experience to account for it.
> But—I found my Cheviot really difficult to transport on my bike rack. I wrote 
> a post about it, got tons of ideas about how to resolve the problem, none of 
> which worked. So I bought a small Joe Appaloosa to stick on my car, for when 
> I drive to ride. 
> I consider the Cheviot to be a Jaguar (not that I’ve driven one) instead of a 
> Cadillac. That’s just cause I think a Jaguar is sexier. 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/E1ezDPhtnSk/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Joe Bernard

Also (climbs back on soapbox because I meant to add the Melanie shoutout), I 
think Melanie is right about the custom mixte being ordered in the Roadeo 
weight class, which I think is similar to my new Frank Jones. Transposing from 
that bike to mine, hoo boy is there a weight difference you feel lifting AND 
riding. I'm probably pushing the load limit on this frame (I'll be careful how 
hard I push it, definitely not loading bags up on this one), but I think it 
would be perfect for lighter folks like Leah and Melanie. 

But I wouldn't worry about it being TOO flimsy; customs are ordered to your 
size, weight and riding style. It won't be "just like a Roadeo or Frank Jones", 
it'll be exactly what YOU need.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread ted

Leah,

I encourage you to try and avoid getting wrapped up in frame weight worries.
Though I'm not immune to bouts of weight weeniesm (I've got a sub 19lb 
black mountain and my AHH is under 21lbs) I think bike weight is at best a 
third order effect, and frame weight is only part of total bike weight. 
Choice of components tires etc, let alone bags with stuff in them can add 
up to more than the difference in frame weights. Bike weight is most 
noticeable when maneuvering the bike before or after a ride. I.e. up or 
down porch steps, on or off a car rack, etc. If your not bothered doing 
those sorts of things try to forget about it. If you are bothered by it, 
buy light parts, don't opt for the larger frame if you've got two options, 
and think about tubing last.
I also don't subscribe to the "too stiff" frame school. If you like feeling 
your fame flex when you stand on the pedals fine, but I don't care for it 
myself. Decades ago I was racing on a Nobilette sport touringish frame and 
between one weekend and the next I changed to a Gios Torino (italian race 
frame). The Gios was noticeably stiffer and quicker handling. I liked the 
ride better for racing but it did not make me slower or faster (note, that 
frame is in my garage rafters now).
I think you would be better served by focusing on the ride and handling you 
want and let GP and co worry about the tubing. I'm convinced that the ride 
and handling of a bike are dominated by the geometry and the tires. Unless 
the tubing is really light and you like bottom bracket flex under power, 
the effect of tubing is way down in the weeds. I don't believe substituting 
roadeo tubing into the cheviot geometry would result in a mixte that rides 
like a roadeo. 
When Riv "steered you toward production" did you tell them you wanted a 
mixte that rides like a Roadeo? Is that what you want? If it is I expect GP 
would say that is a custom.
If you want a bike that rides like a Betty, Cheviot or Clem L but faster, 
buy a production bike and put easier rolling more fragile tires, lower 
narrower bars, and light components on it.
Custom frame (4K) minus cheviot frame (1.4K) leaves $2600, you can buy a 
fair number of fancy parts upgrades with that much money.
Unless you have $$ to burn, I think a custom Riv only makes sense if the 
geometry you want isn't available any other way.

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 9:51:12 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Ugh, I know that Melanie and Mark make excellent points. Points I weighed 
> when I was trying to decide custom mixte vs. production mixte. I knew that 
> Riv would steer me toward production, and they did, and it seemed like I 
> could get enough of what I wanted with a Cheviot. But the more I think 
> about it, I wonder if I should just pay the extra money and get in 
> Nobilette’s line.
>
> I also wonder if I’m making up problems I don’t have. I *can* pedal a 
> Rivendell just fine; it’s just that a custom could be mo’ better. Is that 
> worth the extra money? I do have kids to put through college, you know...
>
> How light is Roadeo tubing? If, and it’s a big if, I were to make a mixte 
> out of it, I wonder if it would be strong enough...
>
> But the other really big factor here is if the Cheviots are being 
> extensively delayed. I was hoping to have one in April (that was the 
> rumored drop date) but then Rivendell said June or July. Then they said 
> Cheviots would ship in July so not until mid to late August. And that was 
> BEFORE the COVID crisis.
>
> If the delay is worse than August, maybe I should try to get a flyweight 
> mixte via the custom route. Hopefully THAT line is not so long...
> Leah
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 7:33 AM, Melanie > 
> wrote:
>
> 
>  I agree with Mark Roland. You need a Roadeo-weight mixte. The weight of 
> my Roadeo is perfect for my under-125 lbs. body.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Joe Bernard

Mark, you make a point that has crossed my mind a couple times in these
discussions: How would the Cheviot be that much different from the Betty Foy?
Leah has one and likes it, but it's not her dream Riv Mixte that she was
looking for in the apparently-never-to-be Anniversary Mixte. Which leads me
to...

Leah, I've banged the custom drum before so you'll have a bit of "yeah yeah,
Joe wants me to get a custom" bias and plug your ears and run away, but things
are a little different now so hear me out 

The new Cheviot will be great and a good bit cheaper, but the timing on it
arriving keeps getting longer and getting the custom color on there is going to
drag that out even more. And it's going to be lighter than your Clem L, but
still in my opinion massively overbuilt for itty bitty you and what is even the
point of that?? I could see living with the production frame compromise if you
could just call 'em right now and get it in a box and to your door next week,
but that's not happening. So..

Get a custom! Built to your size and weight, which means spindly little tubes
which will fit in fancy little lugs, you can make the mixte stays coming off
the toptube straight or curvy (or not there at all like my custom), and Joe
Bell will paint it any dang shade of cranberry red metallic you can possibly
throw at him. With a nifty "JB" decal on the chainstay to prove it.

Yes it's more  but you're going to ride it 20 years at least and - as we've
discussed before (she's plugging her ears now) - it's real transportation for
you, you use it instead of a car all the time. And you'll actually get it. Do I
think the new Cheviot will eventually show up? Yes. Do I have any confidence in
delivery timelines right now? I do not. I think getting in line with Nobilette
now gets you a bike sooner.

So there!

Joe "climbs off his soapbox" Bernard

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Deborah Coffin

The first bike I tried when I visited Riv was the Cheviot I purchased. I’d
ridden the same Specialized road bike always, and I’d bonded with it
profoundly, but I hadn’t ridden a bike much in a long time. I tried a Surly
Long Haul Trucker—and really wanted to love it—but thought it felt really
stodgy somehow. It was a dull feeling, despite fitting me nicely. It made me
want my twitchy road bike. I’ll add that I used to be 5’4” and now I’m 5’2” (I
lost two inches by my early 40s, which I’m mentioning cause my legs didn’t
shrink). Anyway, when I saw the Cheviot, I thought it was the most beautiful
bike I’d ever seen, and when I rode it, I was stunned. It was ridiculously
comfortable, smooth, but NOT stodgy. I rode it up and down the short steep
entrance to a parking garage, over and over, sitting down, something I’d never
have done on my road bike. I had to have that bike—and I insisted it had to be
that exact one. I fell in love with it in a way that’s hard to describe. I
hadn’t wanted something so much in a long time, but I’d never thought about
paying so much for a bike. I’m still glad to have it. I love riding again and
have used it as my town and touring ride. I use it to get groceries. I commuted
with it, though I’m paranoid about leaving it locked anywhere. The only place
I’ve had trouble riding it was when trying to climb a steep, super-narrow dirt
hill; it felt like I might flip over backwards. That might be from having the
wrong tires? Maybe my position? I wondered if it was because the bike is
relatively long? I don’t normally ride trails like that one, so I don’t have
enough experience to account for it.
But—I found my Cheviot really difficult to transport on my bike rack. I wrote a
post about it, got tons of ideas about how to resolve the problem, none of
which worked. So I bought a small Joe Appaloosa to stick on my car, for when I
drive to ride.
I consider the Cheviot to be a Jaguar (not that I’ve driven one) instead of a
Cadillac. That’s just cause I think a Jaguar is sexier.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-29 Thread Leah Peterson

Ugh, I know that Melanie and Mark make excellent points. Points I weighed when 
I was trying to decide custom mixte vs. production mixte. I knew that Riv would 
steer me toward production, and they did, and it seemed like I could get enough 
of what I wanted with a Cheviot. But the more I think about it, I wonder if I 
should just pay the extra money and get in Nobilette’s line.

I also wonder if I’m making up problems I don’t have. I *can* pedal a Rivendell 
just fine; it’s just that a custom could be mo’ better. Is that worth the extra 
money? I do have kids to put through college, you know...

How light is Roadeo tubing? If, and it’s a big if, I were to make a mixte out 
of it, I wonder if it would be strong enough...

But the other really big factor here is if the Cheviots are being extensively 
delayed. I was hoping to have one in April (that was the rumored drop date) but 
then Rivendell said June or July. Then they said Cheviots would ship in July so 
not until mid to late August. And that was BEFORE the COVID crisis.

If the delay is worse than August, maybe I should try to get a flyweight mixte 
via the custom route. Hopefully THAT line is not so long...
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 7:33 AM, Melanie  wrote:
> 
> 
>  I agree with Mark Roland. You need a Roadeo-weight mixte. The weight of my 
> Roadeo is perfect for my under-125 lbs. body.
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

I'm wrong, it's "trip through", which she already said in this thread. I knew 
I'd heard it somewhere! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

"Best part is swinging your leg over the top tube instead of trying to clear 
all the stuff on your rack, its a whole new world."

Hehe, that didn't quite work for my stubby legs. I can step through a Clem L, 
but usually kicked my Chev. Roberta calls them "kick throughs" 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-28 Thread lambbo

I find the Cheviot to be great on trails, amazing around town, and have ridden 
a century on mine comfortably too!  Best part is swinging your leg over the top 
tube instead of trying to clear all the stuff on your rack, its a whole new 
world. 




On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:22:04 PM UTC-4, Mark Roland wrote:
> 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-28 Thread Mark Roland



[image: cheviut.jpg]

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-28 Thread hugh flynn

I don't know enough to say who is wrong or right, and suspect it doesn't
matter anyway.  Given all the bad press the R559s have received, I was just
surprised when they worked so very well for my 650B conversion w/road
levers.

Hugh "haven't crashed yet" Flynn
Newburyport, MA

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 5:48 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> To clarify - this became a long convoluted thread on the 650B group with
> considerable disagreement - I've used new versions of these brakes, too,
> with mtb short-pull levers and still don't love them. YRMV because several
> people said I was full of the bollocks about this. Ride what you like, be
> happy! 
>
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>
-- 
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Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-28 Thread ted

My 700x35 shod 57 FJsr feels light plush and zippy.
My 650x38 shod 56 toyo AHH also feels light plush and zippy. 
I suspect we tend to make too much of wheel size.
That said, aesthetically I really like the proportions on my  AHH and if the 
wheels were 700c and all else equal the head tube would likely be shorter and 
the bike slightly less gorgeous to my eye.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

Ah, the 650B v. 700C question is an interesting one I've been thinking a lot 
about this week after building my Frank Jones up (and probably worth its own 
thread as well, but I digress). I'm running 700 x 38 Compass Barlow Pass tires 
and it feels light and whippy and cushy and I love it. My Roadini has 700 x 
33.3 Jack Browns and it felt light and whippy and cushy and I loved it. 

Of course these are both full-on (for Riv) road bikes so I'm sure the frames 
play a part, but I'm now questioning my allegiance to 650B. Which is an issue 
because my upcoming custom is 650B! Whoops 路

I'd forgotten that the new 55cm Cheviot will be 700C, I think it's going to be 
an amazing bike!

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-28 Thread Leah Peterson

This post made me really hopeful about my upcoming Cheviot. It’s going to be 
such a long and difficult wait. I really hope the batch is still happening late 
summer. Did you all see the Hillibike shipment will now wait to ship with 
Roadinis? We can only take guesses as to whether or not this will push back the 
Cheviots, which were to ship mid-July. And the Gallop bike after that? I don’t 
know. What did it mean in the newsletter when Grant wondered aloud if he (they) 
ought to order fall bikes? Maybe we need yet another thread to toss around 
ideas about this...

I know the new 55 Cheviot will have a 700c wheel, which Grant really believes 
will improve the ride quality a ton. I know nothing of such things. If you do, 
I’d love to read about it here. 

Keep these posts coming! 
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 28, 2020, at 7:31 AM, Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> My Cheviot is the only Riv bike I own. I use it for everything -- daily 
> commuting (RIP for now), shopping, hauling stuff w/a BOB trailer, longish 
> rides (70 miles is about my limit but I don't blame the bike for that), 
> overnights/camping, some light trails, and especially gravel roads. . There 
> isn't much it can't do. I like the step-over look despite the obligatory 
> "hey, isn't that a woman's bike?" queries, which, fair enough. But there's 
> also some fun in lowering the athletic/sporty perception of cycling as much 
> as possible, and riding a mixte frame in street clothes while keeping up with 
> or beating the group to the top of the hill does just that. I like that it 
> can fit big nobby tires or regular road/commuter tires w/fenders. t's a 
> incredibly comfortable and functional all-around bike which is why I got it. 
> Here it is on a ~12 mile sunset ride last night ;-)
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>> On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>> Bicycle Belle started this topic on another thread and I think it would be 
>> interesting to dive into. I think it's a road bike or Country Bike like a 
>> Homer, someone else said it was kinda equal to a Clem, and Will @ Riv uses 
>> his as a 2-speed on dirt trails (but he's crazy!). What do YOU think a 
>> Cheviot is?
>> Joe Bernard
>> Marin County CA.
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

To clarify - this became a long convoluted thread on the 650B group with 
considerable disagreement - I've used new versions of these brakes, too, with 
mtb short-pull levers and still don't love them. YRMV because several people 
said I was full of the bollocks about this. Ride what you like, be happy! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?

2020-03-28 Thread Justin Kennedy

FYI I replaced the stock pads on mine with Kool-Stop salmon compound
pads/cartridges and there's a noticeable improvement.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 5:11 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Possibly, Hugh. I switched to the short-pull (canti) position on my Avid
> mtb levers for these brakes but it's still not great. A new set of pads
> will probably help, I just picked these Silver-branded brakes up used.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is a Cheviot?