Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback programing question

[Ray Walters]

Hi Jay;

Ah, its for load shedding.  How come the max input amps setting doesn't 
limit the total power drawn from the generator?  That should throttle 
back the charging rate to maintain full power thru to the loads.
Giving the batteries a 56 v for 5 min and dropping back to float 
wouldn't constitute a cycle,  its really more like the refloat setting 
on Outback equipment.  It actually should bring the batteries a few % 
closer to a true full charge every day without overheating the cells.
I agree programming every inverter separately is a pain, not something 
the customer would want to do.  (I'm still waiting for that app that 
lets us set up systems with a laptop or phone)

Good luck, please post your solution.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/29/2016 6:19 PM, jay wrote:

Hi Ray,

I guess my answer is that its way easier to switch one button with easy access 
than go deep into the menus and have to change 4 inverters.
This situation is a short term thing.  In this case it is an issue as the 
generator cannot handle both the chargers and the load. And he doesn’t want and 
I agree to have an additional cycle on the batteries when they don’t need it.

I’m working with OB to find out why this is happening.

Thanks

jay

peltz power
   

On Apr 29, 2016, at 11:07 AM, Ray Walters  wrote:

What's wrong with the chargers being on?  Just set the charge settings (absorb 
56 v, and absorb time 5 minutes) fairly low. It will lightly charge for a few 
minutes, and then go to float.
Just because your customer imagines this to be a problem, doesn't mean it 
actually is.  Its not going to hurt the batteries or use excessive fuel to go 
through a little refresh charge like this, and if the batteries actually are 
low, these charge settings will be helpful.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/29/2016 11:56 AM, Darren Emmons wrote:

When the generator is auto started, the inverter's charger will be enabled. 
After the generator is stopped, the inverter's charger will be returned to the 
mode before the generator started. The logic is if you are running the 
generator the Inverter's charger should be enabled. You could lower the charger 
AC limit to 0 Amps.

08:00 Inverter charger OFF
10:00 Must run start -> charger ON
11:00 Must run stop -> charger OFF


Darren


On 04/27/2016 05:31 PM, jay wrote:

HI All,

I’ve got a problem that outback tech hasn’t been able to figure out.

off grid system
mate 3
quad stacked VFX 3648

The generator is set to specific start/stop daily timer.  This works fine.

The client has plenty of solar for the day, and when he runs his generator he 
doesn’t want the chargers to operate.
OK so just hit charge off, and yes the chargers will turn off.

But next day, genny starts up, and the chargers come back on as well.

Outback says that shouldn’t be happening, but it is.

Anybody have this issue or know of a fix?

Thanks

jay

peltz power


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback programing question

[jay]

Hi Ray,

I guess my answer is that its way easier to switch one button with easy access 
than go deep into the menus and have to change 4 inverters.  
This situation is a short term thing.  In this case it is an issue as the 
generator cannot handle both the chargers and the load. And he doesn’t want and 
I agree to have an additional cycle on the batteries when they don’t need it.

I’m working with OB to find out why this is happening.  

Thanks

jay

peltz power
  
> On Apr 29, 2016, at 11:07 AM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> 
> What's wrong with the chargers being on?  Just set the charge settings 
> (absorb 56 v, and absorb time 5 minutes) fairly low. It will lightly charge 
> for a few minutes, and then go to float.
> Just because your customer imagines this to be a problem, doesn't mean it 
> actually is.  Its not going to hurt the batteries or use excessive fuel to go 
> through a little refresh charge like this, and if the batteries actually are 
> low, these charge settings will be helpful.
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> 
> On 4/29/2016 11:56 AM, Darren Emmons wrote:
>> When the generator is auto started, the inverter's charger will be enabled. 
>> After the generator is stopped, the inverter's charger will be returned to 
>> the mode before the generator started. The logic is if you are running the 
>> generator the Inverter's charger should be enabled. You could lower the 
>> charger AC limit to 0 Amps.
>> 
>> 08:00 Inverter charger OFF
>> 10:00 Must run start -> charger ON
>> 11:00 Must run stop -> charger OFF
>> 
>> >Darren
>> 
>> 
>> On 04/27/2016 05:31 PM, jay wrote:
>>> HI All,
>>> 
>>> I’ve got a problem that outback tech hasn’t been able to figure out.
>>> 
>>> off grid system
>>> mate 3
>>> quad stacked VFX 3648
>>> 
>>> The generator is set to specific start/stop daily timer.  This works fine.
>>> 
>>> The client has plenty of solar for the day, and when he runs his generator 
>>> he doesn’t want the chargers to operate.
>>> OK so just hit charge off, and yes the chargers will turn off.
>>> 
>>> But next day, genny starts up, and the chargers come back on as well.
>>> 
>>> Outback says that shouldn’t be happening, but it is.
>>> 
>>> Anybody have this issue or know of a fix?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> jay
>>> 
>>> peltz power
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid Generator

[Travis Jordan]

I have found the local Cummins rep to be very happy to set us up as a
dealer for their generators. We buy through Cummins Northwest in either
Missoula MT or Spokane WA. Last time I bought one I thought it was a bit
over $4k if you hit me up off-line I will forward you my sales reps
name and info

Sorry about the slow response, got busy and didn't see the question till
now!

Later,

Travis Jordan
tra...@jordansolar.net
tra...@mtsolar.us
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[August Goers]

Benn,



We’ve done it several ways including putting four 14 x 1.5” TYPE 17 screws
per attachment point through the metal and into the 1” x wood purlin. The
key is that the load path all the way down needs to be capable of handling
the worst case loads. So we had to check that too. Some racking
manufactures such as Unirac have online calculators to give point loads.



Best, August



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Benn Kilburn
*Sent:* Friday, April 29, 2016 2:17 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing



August, et al;

If the purlins are only 1"x4" or 1"x6" or1"x anything, are you only
relying on the 1" purlin as the attachment point or are you hitting the
vertical trusses below the purlins?



We are working on a corrugated roof right now and using a Schletter roof
bracket. The name of it escapes me at the moment. Maybe FixT?

We are attaching to purlins which are 2"x6".  I wouldn't think 1"x anything
would provide enough pull-out?

Benn Kilburn

SkyFire Energy Inc.

780-906-7807




On Apr 29, 2016, at 9:09 AM, August Goers  wrote:

Hi Bill,



It sounds like you’re talking about a purlin type setup – 4’ sounds a
little far apart but I guess that’s what you have to deal with. If you have
a corrugated metal roof, we’ve used S-5 CurruBrackets screwed through the
metal and into the purlins and then either run the solar rail up and down
the roof or install a sub-rack system (with strut or angle aluminum)
perpendicular to your solar rail.



Best,



August



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *frenergy
*Sent:* Friday, April 29, 2016 6:55 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing



Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a
"handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6
stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4
feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at
the stringers.  I'm sure he had a *great* reason for doing so.  So now I
have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft"
the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are walking on
air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with
possible feet/post locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem
solving but I'm accepting ideas.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

Bill Battagin, Owner

4291 Nelson St.

Taylorsville, CA 95983

530.284.7849

CA Lic 874049

www.frenergy.net

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[Benn Kilburn]

August, et al;
If the purlins are only 1"x4" or 1"x6" or1"x anything, are you only relying 
on the 1" purlin as the attachment point or are you hitting the vertical 
trusses below the purlins?

We are working on a corrugated roof right now and using a Schletter roof 
bracket. The name of it escapes me at the moment. Maybe FixT?  
We are attaching to purlins which are 2"x6".  I wouldn't think 1"x anything 
would provide enough pull-out?

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy Inc. 
780-906-7807


> On Apr 29, 2016, at 9:09 AM, August Goers  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
>  
> It sounds like you’re talking about a purlin type setup – 4’ sounds a little 
> far apart but I guess that’s what you have to deal with. If you have a 
> corrugated metal roof, we’ve used S-5 CurruBrackets screwed through the metal 
> and into the purlins and then either run the solar rail up and down the roof 
> or install a sub-rack system (with strut or angle aluminum) perpendicular to 
> your solar rail.
>  
> Best,
>  
> August
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of frenergy
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 6:55 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing
>  
> Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a 
> "handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6 
> stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4 feet 
> (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at the 
> stringers.  I'm sure he had a great reason for doing so.  So now I have been 
> asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft" the roof is 
> as you walk on it of course because you are walking on air-below-metal for 
> most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with possible feet/post 
> locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem solving but I'm 
> accepting ideas.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Jason Szumlanski]

If it's 240V single phase center tapped between two legs of a 480V delta
transformer, then one of the 240V legs *is* technically a neutral. What you
have is two 240V legs between two of three 480V phases. That said, if the
service from the utility is this type of 480/240V "split-phase," which
presumably is exclusively to run pumps, then you're probably going to have
a hard time coming up with a good solution, and the utility will probably
not appreciate the phase imbalance that would be introduced. On the other
hand, if the load is constant and greater than the solar production, they
may appreciate it, provided you can find a suitable inverter, which I don't
know of for this type of service.

If the service is actually 480V delta and they are providing 240V for the
customer's convenience with a center tapped neutral, then obviously the
3-phase 480V is where you want to connect, but because you have 3 wires and
not 4 this does not seem to be the case. See if the utility will supply the
third hot 480V conductor and switch the service to 3-phase. They can leave
the neutral in place to support the 240V loads.


[image: Inline image 1]


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Chris Mason 
wrote:

> If it's delta there is no neutral.
> On Apr 29, 2016 12:40, "jay"  wrote:
>
>> HI Jerry and all,
>>
>> I’m sorry if I confused the issue.
>> I haven’t seen this, I’m doing the research for a friend.
>> It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line
>> to neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.
>>
>> The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible
>> system to do.
>> And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.
>>
>> Thanks for the input.
>>
>> jay
>>
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the
>> three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the
>> term delta is three points
>> Jerry
>> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay"  wrote:
>>
>> Great inverter but this is single phase.
>> Jay
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Chris Mason
>> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>>
>> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay"  wrote:
>>
>>> HI All,
>>>
>>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
>>> water pumping site with
>>>
>>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>>>
>>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>>>
>>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> jay
>>>
>>> peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Chris Mason]

If it's delta there is no neutral.
On Apr 29, 2016 12:40, "jay"  wrote:

> HI Jerry and all,
>
> I’m sorry if I confused the issue.
> I haven’t seen this, I’m doing the research for a friend.
> It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line to
> neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.
>
> The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible
> system to do.
> And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> jay
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the
> three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the
> term delta is three points
> Jerry
> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay"  wrote:
>
> Great inverter but this is single phase.
> Jay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 
> wrote:
>
> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
> Jerry
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Chris Mason
> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>
> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay"  wrote:
>
>> HI All,
>>
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
>> water pumping site with
>>
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>>
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>>
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> jay
>>
>> peltz power
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[Chris Mason]

I would use Everest Express rail pop riveted to every trapezoid, it will
add a lot of strength to the roofing. You may not bee able to get it any
more though.
On Apr 29, 2016 09:54, "frenergy"  wrote:

> Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a
> "handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6
> stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4
> feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at
> the stringers.  I'm sure he had a *great* reason for doing so.  So now I
> have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft"
> the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are walking on
> air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with
> possible feet/post locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem
> solving but I'm accepting ideas.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[Jason Szumlanski]

Look into the Versabracket. We get quite a lot of metal roofing installed
around here over existing shingles with horizontal 1x4 battens. Spacing is
usually 2', however.


Jason Szumlanski



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 9:55 AM, frenergy  wrote:

> Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a
> "handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6
> stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4
> feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at
> the stringers.  I'm sure he had a *great* reason for doing so.  So now I
> have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft"
> the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are walking on
> air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with
> possible feet/post locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem
> solving but I'm accepting ideas.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[don]

Hi Jay -Usually 408 delta will have 3 legs.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_powerUnlike Wye, the neutral is center tapped from the winding between two of the legs.The third is a hi leg or "stinger" leg that is 1.5 times the others voltage to neutral.Sounds like what you have is two of three legs with a center tapped neutral; the the hi leg is probably around somewhere on site. If you can find it then a 3-phase inverter will work. Otherwise, as mentioned you will need a transformer to get 240 across the legs you have. But 10kW of solar will unbalance the phases. Best to find that third leg and use a 3-phase inverter. I have used the Fronius IG Plus 11.4 for this with good results. Don BarchEnergy Solar
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:03:26 -0700
From: jay 
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

HI Jerry and all,

I?m sorry if I confused the issue.  
I haven?t seen this, I?m doing the research for a friend.  
It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line to neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.

The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible system to do.  
And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.

Thanks for the input.  

jay


> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the term delta is three points
> Jerry
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay" > wrote:
> Great inverter but this is single phase. 
> Jay
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 > wrote:
> 
>> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S? III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Chris Mason
>> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>> 
>> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" > wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial water pumping site with
>> 
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>> 
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>> 
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback programing question

[Ray Walters]

What's wrong with the chargers being on?  Just set the charge settings 
(absorb 56 v, and absorb time 5 minutes) fairly low. It will lightly 
charge for a few minutes, and then go to float.
Just because your customer imagines this to be a problem, doesn't mean 
it actually is.  Its not going to hurt the batteries or use excessive 
fuel to go through a little refresh charge like this, and if the 
batteries actually are low, these charge settings will be helpful.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/29/2016 11:56 AM, Darren Emmons wrote:
When the generator is auto started, the inverter's charger will be 
enabled. After the generator is stopped, the inverter's charger will 
be returned to the mode before the generator started. The logic is if 
you are running the generator the Inverter's charger should be 
enabled. You could lower the charger AC limit to 0 Amps.


08:00 Inverter charger OFF
10:00 Must run start -> charger ON
11:00 Must run stop -> charger OFF

>Darren


On 04/27/2016 05:31 PM, jay wrote:

HI All,

I’ve got a problem that outback tech hasn’t been able to figure out.

off grid system
mate 3
quad stacked VFX 3648

The generator is set to specific start/stop daily timer.  This works 
fine.


The client has plenty of solar for the day, and when he runs his 
generator he doesn’t want the chargers to operate.

OK so just hit charge off, and yes the chargers will turn off.

But next day, genny starts up, and the chargers come back on as well.

Outback says that shouldn’t be happening, but it is.

Anybody have this issue or know of a fix?

Thanks

jay

peltz power


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback programing question

[Darren Emmons]

When the generator is auto started, the inverter's charger will be 
enabled. After the generator is stopped, the inverter's charger will be 
returned to the mode before the generator started. The logic is if you 
are running the generator the Inverter's charger should be enabled. You 
could lower the charger AC limit to 0 Amps.


08:00 Inverter charger OFF
10:00 Must run start -> charger ON
11:00 Must run stop -> charger OFF

>Darren


On 04/27/2016 05:31 PM, jay wrote:

HI All,

I’ve got a problem that outback tech hasn’t been able to figure out.

off grid system
mate 3
quad stacked VFX 3648

The generator is set to specific start/stop daily timer.  This works fine.

The client has plenty of solar for the day, and when he runs his generator he 
doesn’t want the chargers to operate.
OK so just hit charge off, and yes the chargers will turn off.

But next day, genny starts up, and the chargers come back on as well.

Outback says that shouldn’t be happening, but it is.

Anybody have this issue or know of a fix?

Thanks

jay

peltz power


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac EcoGen problem

[Rich Nicol]

I've seen a number of Eco Gen's go with no issues for a long time and 2
others blow all the oil out just as Drake noted. Rather worrisome!
Rich

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Drake
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 1:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac EcoGen problem

The one and only EcoGen I installed blew out its oil in within the first
couple hours of running. 
It severely damaged the engine. Generac did the service and ultimately
replaced the unit. It had something to do with the two reservoirs and the
hoses.


At 11:59 AM 4/29/2016, you wrote:
>Wrenches,
>
>I service an off grid home that has an EcoGen 6kW Model 58181 LP gen 
>with a Serial Number of 8301854. It has 1,175 hrs on it during 2-1/2 
>years of service.
>
>. It appears that the crankcase is 
>filling with excessive amounts of oil.
>. There was a Generac Service Bulletin 
>in July of 2013 which predates this generators Serial Number. This 
>bulletin alerted the possibility of excessive oil in the crankcase due 
>to "incorrect routing of the pulse pump hoses".
>. From the pictures on the service 
>bulletin (and with the SN being higher) it looks like the generator in 
>question has properly routed hoses. See photo attached if you are 
>familiar with this problem.
>. There is an extra oil reservoir on 
>these units. The engine takes 1.7 quarts and the reservoir takes 4.2
Quarts.
>. I last changed the oil (and properly 
>filled both engine and reservoir) at 1,124 hours
>. Now at 1,175 hrs the generator runs 
>very roughly and blows lots of oily smelling blue/grey smoke. Most of 
>the oil is gone from the reservoir so it's pretty obvious that the oil 
>has flooded into the crankcase.
>. If the Pulse Pump hoses are routed 
>correctly and I'd say they are since the SN is later than the 
>recognized problem AND the fact this generator ran great for over 1,100 
>hours then maybe is the pulse pump itself is bad?
>. I wanted to run this by this list 
>before talking to Generac because I know there are a number of wrenches 
>whom have experience with the EcoGen.
>. Can I simply just drain the oil and 
>only refill the 1.7 Qts in the engine and run the unit?
>
>Thanks for your time,
>
>David Palumbo
>Independent Power LLC
>462 Solar Way Drive
>Hyde Park, VT 05655
>802-371-8678 cell
>802-888-4917 home
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac EcoGen problem

[Drake]

The one and only EcoGen I installed blew out its 
oil in within the first couple hours of running. 
It severely damaged the engine. Generac did the 
service and ultimately replaced the unit. It had 
something to do with the two reservoirs and the hoses.



At 11:59 AM 4/29/2016, you wrote:

Wrenches,

I service an off grid home that has an EcoGen 
6kW Model 58181 LP gen with a Serial Number of 
8301854. It has 1,175 hrs on it during 2-1/2 years of service.


· It appears that the crankcase is 
filling with excessive amounts of oil.
· There was a Generac Service Bulletin 
in July of 2013 which predates this generators 
Serial Number. This bulletin alerted the 
possibility of excessive oil in the crankcase 
due to "incorrect routing of the pulse pump hoses".
· From the pictures on the service 
bulletin (and with the SN being higher) it looks 
like the generator in question has properly 
routed hoses. See photo attached if you are familiar with this problem.
· There is an extra oil reservoir on 
these units. The engine takes 1.7 quarts and the reservoir takes 4.2 Quarts.
· I last changed the oil (and properly 
filled both engine and reservoir) at 1,124 hours
· Now at 1,175 hrs the generator runs 
very roughly and blows lots of oily smelling 
blue/grey smoke. Most of the oil is gone from 
the reservoir so it's pretty obvious that the 
oil has flooded into the crankcase.
· If the Pulse Pump hoses are routed 
correctly and I'd say they are since the SN is 
later than the recognized problem AND the fact 
this generator ran great for over 1,100 hours 
then maybe is the pulse pump itself is bad?
· I wanted to run this by this list 
before talking to Generac because I know there 
are a number of wrenches whom have experience with the EcoGen.
· Can I simply just drain the oil and 
only refill the 1.7 Qts in the engine and run the unit?


Thanks for your time,

David Palumbo
Independent Power LLC
462 Solar Way Drive
Hyde Park, VT 05655
802-371-8678 cell
802-888-4917 home


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[Gordon Woodcock]

Or if you have to be in portrait you can run strut from peak to gutter and
then add your rails to that. A little cumbersome and more material costs,
so if you can get away with landscape it's definitely better.

Thanks,

Gordon

--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:55:22 -0700
> From: frenergy <frene...@psln.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing
> Message-ID: <3504a6c6-f711-364e-00c0-86baff558...@psln.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a
> "handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran
> 1X6 stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about
> every 4 feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing
> screws are at the stringers.  I'm sure he had a /great/ reason for doing
> so.  So now I have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can
> feel how "soft" the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are
> walking on air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations
> don't jive with possible feet/post locations for rail. I'm usually
> pretty good at problem solving but I'm accepting ideas.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
>
> ------ next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160429/7a62a058/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:56:18 -0700
> From: Kirpal Khalsa <solarwo...@gmail.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[jay]

HI Jerry and all,

I’m sorry if I confused the issue.  
I haven’t seen this, I’m doing the research for a friend.  
It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line to 
neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.

The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible system 
to do.  
And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.

Thanks for the input.  

jay


> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the three 
> legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the term 
> delta is three points
> Jerry
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay"  > wrote:
> Great inverter but this is single phase. 
> Jay
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01  > wrote:
> 
>> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Chris Mason
>> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>> 
>> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" > > wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial 
>> water pumping site with
>> 
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>> 
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>> 
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[jay]

Hi Bill,

What about installing unistrut to the roof on those attachment points, then 
installing the racking to the unistrut?

jay

peltz power
> On Apr 29, 2016, at 6:55 AM, frenergy  wrote:
> 
> Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a 
> "handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6 
> stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4 feet 
> (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at the 
> stringers.  I'm sure he had a great reason for doing so.  So now I have been 
> asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft" the roof is 
> as you walk on it of course because you are walking on air-below-metal for 
> most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with possible feet/post 
> locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem solving but I'm 
> accepting   ideas.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Siemens P4JF 75 watt PV module spec sheet

[billbrooks7]

Dana,

 

Reaching back into my brain archives, having done a few projects with these 
modules, I know that many, if not all, of these modules were rated for a 
maximum system voltage of 48-volts. They can’t be used on higher voltage PV 
arrays.

 

This was a budget version of their standard product. The picture from William 
has the basic specs.


Bill.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Siemens P4JF 75 watt PV module spec sheet

 

Dana:

 

Best I can do is a photo of a module data placard, attached.

 

William

 

 


Lic 773985
millersolar.com  
805-438-5600

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
 ] On Behalf Of Dana
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:57 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Siemens P4JF 75 watt PV module spec sheet

 

Hey All,

 

I have an out of state client with Siemens P4JF 75 watt PV modules and am 
looking for a spec sheet. I did a search on the internet and did not come up 
with a hit.

 

Does anyone have a copy of this spec sheet or a suggestion?

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com    - Web - solarwork.com 
  

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[August Goers]

Hi Bill,



It sounds like you’re talking about a purlin type setup – 4’ sounds a
little far apart but I guess that’s what you have to deal with. If you have
a corrugated metal roof, we’ve used S-5 CurruBrackets screwed through the
metal and into the purlins and then either run the solar rail up and down
the roof or install a sub-rack system (with strut or angle aluminum)
perpendicular to your solar rail.



Best,



August



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *frenergy
*Sent:* Friday, April 29, 2016 6:55 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing



Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a
"handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6
stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4
feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at
the stringers.  I'm sure he had a *great* reason for doing so.  So now I
have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft"
the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are walking on
air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with
possible feet/post locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem
solving but I'm accepting ideas.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

Bill Battagin, Owner

4291 Nelson St.

Taylorsville, CA 95983

530.284.7849

CA Lic 874049

www.frenergy.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana]

Hardy has been purchased by SW Prod.; they are in of PHX, AZ.

Great unit I agree, but 1 - not everyone is happy or comfortable with owning a 
diesel & 2 - at elevation here in CO with –F° temps it is not always a good 
choice without a warmed shed.

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of RE Ellison
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 8:00 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

Check out the hardy Diesel15 kW Perkins

It's available and integrated fuel tank single or double walland a whole bunch 
of other goodies including autostart comes along with it

 

Like I mentioned in the last message the The folks I know they're in real cool 
places put them in a small insulated building with a small propane wall heater

 

Starting doesn't seem to be an issue and the belief is that it is cheaper than 
running an electric heater

 

Later

Bob


On Apr 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Dana  wrote:

Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out there, 
please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every source I 
have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about 2000+/- hours 
before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @ 3600 RPM, yuck.

There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche. 

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray Walters
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be 
looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off grid 
systems don't need anything that big.
Do you have a model that I should be looking at?

Thanks,




R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming issues 
but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid

Jerry

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Ray Walters 

Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00) 

To: RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update? 

 

FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long as 
the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
(must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to call 
customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  This is 
off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope Generac reps are 
lurking here, because these are really not much better than the crop of stand 
by generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell service 
to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?





R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 

12.5 kW w Subaru 

Jeremy Rodriguez  

Solar Installation And Design Expert 

All Solar, Inc. 

1463 M St

Penrose Colorado 81240

 

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!


On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky  wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info. 

 

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem areas:

 

First is the warranty - either 

Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 9, Issue 129

[Drake]

Hi Travis,

Can you recommend a good supplier for the Onan RV #HGJAB units?

Thanks,

Drake





At 10:59 PM 4/28/2016, Jordan Solar Sales wrote:

For off-grid generators I have found that the Onan propane RV units 
like model #HGJAB are a great unit. (Onan is owned by Cummins, same 
units as Cummins Commercial series I believe) These are only 6500 
watt units but they are low RPM, very quiet, fuel efficient, and 
start great in cold temps. (the 5500 watt model is the same unit but 
runs lower rpm=lower power) they do need an external battery and 
charger (and battery cables...) and you have to build a stand to set them on.


We sometimes have to "oversize" generators just so the customer can 
run large loads while the batteries are charging, which leads to the 
need for the 10kw (or bigger) generators. I have not found a good 
option for these either. In my opinion, these big gennys are very 
inefficient at battery charging, cost a lot, are hard to start, 
difficult to service/replace, and come with all the electronics 
issues mentioned earlier. I find if I can educate the customer to 
wait to run big loads until after the initial bulk charge cycle they 
can often get by on the 6500 watt unit and they are happier in the 
long run. If I can't win on this, I try to get them buy their own 
genny so it is their problem!


I wish we had a decent AC coupled generator option!

Travis Jordan
tra...@jordansolar.net
tra...@mtsolar.us
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[RE Ellison]

Check out the hardy Diesel15 kW Perkins
It's available and integrated fuel tank single or double walland a whole bunch 
of other goodies including autostart comes along with it

Like I mentioned in the last message the The folks I know they're in real cool 
places put them in a small insulated building with a small propane wall heater

Starting doesn't seem to be an issue and the belief is that it is cheaper than 
running an electric heater

Later
Bob

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Dana  wrote:
> 
> Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out there, 
> please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every source I 
> have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about 2000+/- hours 
> before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @ 3600 RPM, yuck.
> There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche.
>  
> 
> Dana Orzel
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
> E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com
> O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Ray Walters
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>  
> I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be 
> looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
> Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off 
> grid systems don't need anything that big.
> Do you have a model that I should be looking at?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming 
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
>  
>  
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>  
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>  
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long 
> as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
> starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
> but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to 
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  
> This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope 
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than 
> the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
> 
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
> 12.5 kW w Subaru 
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez 
> Solar Installation And Design Expert 
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>  
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky  wrote:
> 
> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
> generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so 
> I was hoping to get some more current info.
>  
> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
> run into 2 main problem areas:
>  
> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).
>  
> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" 
> aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also 
> for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time 
> from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support 
> it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only 
> during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds 
> like we can't 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Panels in landscape mode with rails running peak to gutter?
On Apr 29, 2016 6:54 AM, "frenergy"  wrote:

> Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a
> "handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 1X6
> stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about every 4
> feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing screws are at
> the stringers.  I'm sure he had a *great* reason for doing so.  So now I
> have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can feel how "soft"
> the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are walking on
> air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations don't jive with
> possible feet/post locations for rail.  I'm usually pretty good at problem
> solving but I'm accepting ideas.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Goofy roofing

[frenergy]

Recently, a customer had a metal roof (not standing seam) installed by a 
"handyman".  Pretty clean installation however for some reason he ran 
1X6 stringers across the roof  on the 1/2" plywood deck spaced about 
every 4 feet (as you go from ridge to eaves).  Of course the roofing 
screws are at the stringers.  I'm sure he had a /great/ reason for doing 
so.  So now I have been asked to install an array on this roof.  You can 
feel how "soft" the roof is as you walk on it of course because you are 
walking on air-below-metal for most of the roof.  Stringer locations 
don't jive with possible feet/post locations for rail. I'm usually 
pretty good at problem solving but I'm accepting ideas.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Garrison Riegel]

The newer Tripower STP3 can be configured for delta, but the 12000-24000 
cannot.  A step up transformer sounds like the way to go.

Best,
Garrison

Garrison Riegel
Solar Service Inc

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jerrysgarage01
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:11 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Chris Mason
Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta


You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" > 
wrote:
HI All,

I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial water 
pumping site with

480v single phase delta configuration.

PV will be in the 10kw range.

Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?



thanks

jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 2014 NEC 705.22 disconnect for inverter capable of being locked

[August Goers]

Hi Jesse,



A regular visible blade lockable AC disconnect will satisfy our plan
checker’s concern. However, the utility does not require an AC disconnect
in our area for most residential applications so oftentimes we just use the
beaker as our disconnect. If we just use a back-fed breaker, he wants us to
install a handle padlock attachment at time of inspection and keep it
there. I can see where he is coming from if you read the code sections I
listed below, I’m just trying to figure out if this is a valid
interpretation and if so how we’re going to comply.



Best,



August



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Solar
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:59 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 2014 NEC 705.22 disconnect for inverter
capable of being locked



So an AC disconnect in the inverter output between the inverter and panel
or utility disconnect if required doesn't work for him or her? The locking
provision is always in place on a standard AC disconnect.

Jesse Dahl



NABCEP PV Installation Professional

IBEW Local 292 - Electrician

Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC



Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 28, 2016, at 5:58 PM, jay  wrote:

HI August,



I guess my question is.

Are they asking for a lockout AC disconnect on a AC circuit IE from the AC
panel?

or

are they asking for a lockout from the inverter AC at the inverter?



thanks

jay



peltz power





On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:11 PM, August Goers  wrote:



Hi Wrenches,



We have a particular plan checker who wants us to provide a *lockable* AC
disconnect for our inverter output circuit. His particular issue is that he
wants the locking mechanism to be installed and on site. Here is a little
NEC background info:



2014 NEC 705.22 Disconnect Device

The disconnecting means for ungrounded conductors shall consist of a
manually or power operable switch(es) or circuit breaker(s) with the
following features:

(1)Located where readily accessible

(2)Externally operable without exposing the operator to contact with
live parts and, if power operable, of a type that could be opened by hand
in the event of a power-supply failure

(3)Plainly indicating whether in the open (off) or closed (on) position

(4)Having ratings not less than the load to be carried and the fault
current to be interrupted. For disconnect equipment energized from both
sides, a marking shall be provided to indicate that all contacts of the
disconnect equipment might be energized.

*Informational Note to (4): In parallel generation systems, some equipment,
including knife blade switches and fuses, is likely to be energized from
both directions. See 240.40.*

(5)Simultaneous disconnect of all ungrounded conductors of the circuit

(6)Capable of being locked in the open (off) position



NEC 110.25 Lockable Disconnecting Means:

Where a disconnecting means is required to be lockable open elsewhere in
this Code, it shall be capable of being locked in the open position. The
provisions for locking shall remain in place with or without the lock
installed.



Many times we are using a standard back-fed circuit breaker to comply with
705.22. Then we can supply a handle padlock attachment such as the one
shown for Square D:



http://static.schneider-electric.us/assets/pdf/retail/QO-and-Homeline-Accessories.pdf



Does anyone else have experience installing these breaker handle padlock
attachments? My concern is whether we can find them for all of the old
types of breakers that we have to deal with. Also, our plan checker is
requiring that this handle padlock attachment accessory is installed at the
time of our inspection. Is anyone else dealing with similar issues?



Best,



August

Luminalt











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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana]

Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out
there, please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every
source I have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about
2000+/- hours before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @
3600 RPM, yuck.

There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche. 

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be
looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off
grid systems don't need anything that big.
Do you have a model that I should be looking at?

Thanks,



R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming
issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid

Jerry

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Ray Walters 

Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00) 

To: RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update? 

 

FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long
as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the
starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below
0, but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them.
Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging
(must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to
call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.
This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope
Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than
the crop of stand by generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell
service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?




R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 

12.5 kW w Subaru 

Jeremy Rodriguez  

Solar Installation And Design Expert 

All Solar, Inc. 

1463 M St

Penrose Colorado 81240

 

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!


On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky  wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs
ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info. 

 

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
we run into 2 main problem areas:

 

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
year).

 

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
"off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
computer.

 

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
held to tougher emissions standards.

 

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are
cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

 

Any suggestions appreciated!