Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Look to the 110-watt flexible panel from SunPower.

Comes with MC connectors @ nominal 12V.

Contact me offline for a spec sheet.

marco

On Monday, August 20, 2018, Jay  wrote:

> Hi All
>
> What are good options for a portable module for RV use.
> One that you can move around, (it’s going to fall over)and connect with a
> cable to an camper.
>
> The old unisolar ones were perfect.
>
> Any recommendations are appreciated
> Size?  50-100 watts, 12v nominal.
>
> Thx
> Jay.
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

[Mac Lewis]

Speaking of these lightweight flexible modules, has anyone found a good
non-penetrating way to install these on RVs?  I had a friend do one with
industrial double sided tape and its been working well, but maybe there is
a better way.  Something that would allow a small air-gap between the solar
cells and the surface if the RV would be perfect.

Thanks

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:11 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Look to the 110-watt flexible panel from SunPower.
>
> Comes with MC connectors @ nominal 12V.
>
> Contact me offline for a spec sheet.
>
> marco
>
> On Monday, August 20, 2018, Jay  wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> What are good options for a portable module for RV use.
>> One that you can move around, (it’s going to fall over)and connect with a
>> cable to an camper.
>>
>> The old unisolar ones were perfect.
>>
>> Any recommendations are appreciated
>> Size?  50-100 watts, 12v nominal.
>>
>> Thx
>> Jay.
>>
>>
>> ___
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tapping Parallel Conductors

[Garrison]

Hi Wrenches,

When making a supply side connection on parallel sets of conductors is it 
required to tap all conductors on each phase?

I have a set of plans with an 800A interconnection on a 1200A service.  Service 
has three parallel sets of 500MCM. Plans call for tapping just two conductors 
on each set of three. Plans are stamped by an EE.  I had been working under the 
assumption that if tapping parallel sets all conductors must be tapped.

Any issues with not tapping all sets?

Thanks,

Garrison Riegel
Rethink Electric 
630-998-3629
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

[glenn.b...@glbcc.com]

Hi Jay,
Look at the HQST Solar modules.Easy to find on Amazon for more information.


Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
-- Original message--From: JayDate: Tue, Aug 21, 2018 12:33 AMTo: 
RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules
Hi All

What are good options for a portable module for RV use. 
One that you can move around, (it’s going to fall over)and connect with a cable 
to an camper. 

The old unisolar ones were perfect. 

Any recommendations are appreciated
Size?  50-100 watts, 12v nominal. 

Thx
Jay. 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tapping Parallel Conductors

[August Goers]

Hi Garrison,

This is a new one for me - normally we always balance everything when
dealing with paralleled conductors. NEC 310.10(H) talks about conductors in
parallel and I can't see anything the explicitly forbids what you
explained. To be safe, I think it is worth contacting the PE to double
check that they were aware that there are three sets of parallel conductors
on each phase.

August
Luminalt


On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 8:09 AM Garrison  wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> When making a supply side connection on parallel sets of conductors is it
> required to tap all conductors on each phase?
>
> I have a set of plans with an 800A interconnection on a 1200A service.
> Service has three parallel sets of 500MCM. Plans call for tapping just two
> conductors on each set of three. Plans are stamped by an EE.  I had been
> working under the assumption that if tapping parallel sets all conductors
> must be tapped.
>
> Any issues with not tapping all sets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Garrison Riegel
> Rethink Electric
> 630-998-3629
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

[chris]

These guys make some tough marine modules:  
http://www.cbcamerica.com/microsite/index.cfm?id=103682 
 
Best,
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
  www.oasismontana.com 
 
 
 
 
 
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
David Katz
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules
 
Jay. Check out Gigasolarpv.com   
They make a composite material with crystaline cells.  They get 156 watt from a 
36 cell module. 
 
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 6:07 PM Jay mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Hi All

What are good options for a portable module for RV use. 
One that you can move around, (it’s going to fall over)and connect with a cable 
to an camper. 

The old unisolar ones were perfect. 

Any recommendations are appreciated
Size?  50-100 watts, 12v nominal. 

Thx
Jay. 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Sindelar Solar]

Wrenches,
I  would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently 
installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost exclusively 
with existing off grid systems, often older systems most of which have 
TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer TM2030. Has anyone 
successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to accurately register SOC and other 
data with LFP batteries? If so can you provide some guidance as to 
program settings?

Thank you,
Allan

On 8/20/2018 6:15 PM, Lou Russo wrote:

Jay,
The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet Energy, the 8kWh 
cabinet. The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum Discharge 
Rate is 1C.


Aloha,
Lou Russo

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:27 AM Jay > wrote:


Hi Lou,
Can you tell us which LFP batteries?
And what rates of discharge/charge?
Jay
Peltz power.

On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com>> wrote:


Hello All,


Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report
accurately on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a
minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries
that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the battery
BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical  24
hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to
34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that
the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5%
difference would be acceptable.


Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.


Aloha,
Lou Russo



--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

In my opinion Blue Ion should help with this. When I was considering
becoming a dealer they said they were going to get their Soc and temp data
out to Outback and Schneider web portals. For me they never wanted to get
their product out to major suppliers and I refused to deal with sales tax
so we parted company. 

Ask them for the parameters to program. In the
Schneider monitor there are 5+ parameters and with any monitor you have to
install a shunt which is already in the Blue Ion. It is a great product but
they have work to do, in my opinion. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go
where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 10:55:03
-0600, Sindelar Solar  wrote:   Wrenches,
 I would like to broaden this
topic a bit, please: we're currently installing our first Blue Ion LFP set
(48kWh). I work almost exclusively with existing off grid systems, often
older systems most of which have TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or
newer TM2030. Has anyone successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to accurately
register SOC and other data with LFP batteries? If so can you provide some
guidance as to program settings?
 Thank you, 
 Allan

 On 8/20/2018 6:15
PM, Lou Russo wrote:  Jay, The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet
Energy, the 8kWh cabinet. The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum
Discharge Rate is 1C. 
Aloha, Lou Russo  On Sat, Aug 18,
2018 at 6:27 AM Jay  wrote:   Hi Lou, Can you tell us which LFP batteries? 
And what rates of discharge/charge? Jay Peltz power.  
 On Aug 17, 2018, at
12:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote:

Hello All, 

Does anybody have any insight in
getting the SOC to report accurately on the Outback FNDC when using
batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with
LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the
battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical 24
hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what
the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are reporting
accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable. 

Any
help or thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated. 
  
Aloha, Lou Russo-- 

ALLAN SINDELAR

al...@sindelarsolar.com [5]
 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
 Founder (Retired), Positive
Energy, Inc.
 505 780-2738 CELL 

 -- 

 

Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3]
mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com
[4] mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com
[5]
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Howie Michaelson]

Allan, have you talked directly with Bogart?
Howie

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:56 PM Sindelar Solar 
wrote:

> Wrenches,
> I  would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently
> installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost exclusively
> with existing off grid systems, often older systems most of which have
> TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer TM2030. Has anyone
> successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to accurately register SOC and other
> data with LFP batteries? If so can you provide some guidance as to program
> settings?
> Thank you,
> Allan
>
> On 8/20/2018 6:15 PM, Lou Russo wrote:
>
> Jay,
> The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet Energy, the 8kWh cabinet.
> The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum Discharge Rate is 1C.
>
> Aloha,
> Lou Russo
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:27 AM Jay  wrote:
>
>> Hi Lou,
>> Can you tell us which LFP batteries?
>> And what rates of discharge/charge?
>> Jay
>> Peltz power.
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on
>> the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I
>> have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge
>> (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly
>> different SOCs. In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the
>> FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am
>> assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5%
>> difference would be acceptable.
>>
>> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Aloha,
>> Lou Russo
>>
>> --
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 cell*
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

[Ray]

They look good, but the price/ watt is going back to the 1990s.:-( 
What's your recommended attachment method for these?


We get quite a few RVers calling, but I really am not into punching 
holes into fiberglass roofs with unknown structure beneath.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/21/18 10:26 AM, ch...@oasismontana.com wrote:


These guys make some tough marine 
modules:http://www.cbcamerica.com/microsite/index.cfm?id=103682


Best,

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com 

*From:*RE-wrenches  *On 
Behalf Of *David Katz

*Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2018 10:57 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

Jay. Check out Gigasolarpv.com

They make a composite material with crystaline cells.  They get 156 
watt from a 36 cell module.


On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 6:07 PM Jay > wrote:


Hi All

What are good options for a portable module for RV use.
One that you can move around, (it’s going to fall over)and connect
with a cable to an camper.

The old unisolar ones were perfect.

Any recommendations are appreciated
Size?  50-100 watts, 12v nominal.

Thx
Jay.


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David Katz Sent from Gmail Mobile



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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Jay]

A follow up question to all of this:

Does anyone know what parameters a BMS is using to determine SOC for lithium?

A project I installed uses the Orion BMS jr  for lithium batteries.  It uses a 
normal shunt, voltage and also measures internal cell resistance to determine 
SOC. 

Jay
Peltz Power





> On Aug 21, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Howie Michaelson  
> wrote:
> 
> Allan, have you talked directly with Bogart?
> Howie
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:56 PM Sindelar Solar  
>> wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>> I  would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently 
>> installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost exclusively 
>> with existing off grid systems, often older systems most of which have 
>> TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer TM2030. Has anyone 
>> successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to accurately register SOC and other data 
>> with LFP batteries? If so can you provide some guidance as to program 
>> settings?
>> Thank you, 
>> Allan
>> 
>>> On 8/20/2018 6:15 PM, Lou Russo wrote:
>>> Jay,
>>> The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet Energy, the 8kWh cabinet. 
>>> The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum Discharge Rate is 1C.
>>> 
>>> Aloha,
>>> Lou Russo
>>> 
 On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:27 AM Jay  wrote:
 Hi Lou,
 Can you tell us which LFP batteries?  
 And what rates of discharge/charge?
 Jay
 Peltz power. 
 
 On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote:
 
>  Hello All,
> 
> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on 
> the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? 
> I have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge 
> (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly 
> different SOCs. In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on 
> the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am 
> assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% 
> difference would be acceptable.
> 
> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Aloha,
> Lou Russo
>> -- 
>> Allan Sindelar
>> al...@sindelarsolar.com
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>> 505 780-2738 cell
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ___
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[RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[Gary Higbee]

Hi Wrenches,

I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed Lorentz ETApump 
(after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re looking for a quality DC-DC 
converter to power a not-yet- ordered Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a 24 V 
Surrette battery bank (wish it was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A and the 
curves say we’ll need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at least 70 volts 
out. Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a couple hundred feet of 
larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A (see questions).

The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a fallback for 
battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch box, which 
will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also the CU 200 SQFlex control unit, so we 
can accommodate the existing float switch up the hill, etc.

The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system should be able 
to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The pump curve says we need 600W 
for maximum performance at the lift we’ve got. It seems to me that if we’ve got 
200V and need 600W we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the Grundfos factory line is 
there should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The tech guy said he didn’t have 
specific information why we’d need 8.4A regardless of pump input voltage. 

The Grundfos Product Guide says:

Max. ratings are as follows:
• Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W
• maximum current of 8.4 A
• maximum speed of 3600 rpm (think I read somewhere it’s 3000 rpm for this 
helical rotor model)

The pump delivers its maximum performance when one of the above parameters is 
reached.

Two questions:

1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and what to make of 
the 8.4A at any input voltage factory recommendation? Maybe basic 
amps/volts/power calculations aren’t applicable given the pump electronics?

2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a nominal 24V 
battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and 200V, with an appropriate 
current limiting amp rating to get us at least 600W (depending on thoughts 
regarding the above question)?


Thank you,

Gary

Gary Higbee
Windstream Solar
Oregon License 17LRT
Renewable Energy Consulting
g...@windstreamsolar.com 
541-954-3881___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules

[glenn.b...@glbcc.com]

Prices are what they are for a premium, low volume product. They easily could 
be higher, but for a leisure type product, are not horrible.
This YouTube guy has experimented with using Eternabond to tape down the 
perimeter of a module directly to the RV rooftop with pretty good success. He 
also has videos of him screwing them down through the grommets and sealing the 
perimeter with Dicor.
A great many RV rooftops are not fiberglass, but a rubber membrane with thin 
plywood beneath, so some substance to be had. 
Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
-- Original message--From: RayDate: Tue, Aug 21, 2018 1:33 PMTo: 
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Non breakable 
RV modules

They look good, but the price/ watt is going back to the
  1990s.:-( 
  What's your recommended attachment method for these?  


We get quite a few RVers calling, but I really am not into
  punching holes into fiberglass roofs with unknown structure
  beneath.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 8/21/18 10:26 AM,
  ch...@oasismontana.com wrote:



  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
These guys make some tough marine
  modules:  http://www.cbcamerica.com/microsite/index.cfm?id=103682
  
 
Best,
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com
  
 
 
 
 
 
From:
RE-wrenches
 On Behalf Of David
Katz

Sent: Monday,
August 20, 2018 10:57 PM

To: RE-wrenches


Subject: Re:
[RE-wrenches] Non breakable RV modules
 

  
Jay. Check out
  Gigasolarpv.com   
  


  They make a composite material
with crystaline cells.  They get 156 watt from a 36 cell
module. 


   
  

  On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at
6:07 PM Jay 
wrote:


  Hi
All



What are good options for a portable module for RV
use. 

One that you can move around, (it’s going to fall
over)and connect with a cable to an camper. 



The old unisolar ones were perfect. 



Any recommendations are appreciated

Size?  50-100 watts, 12v nominal. 



Thx

Jay. 





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-- 

  David Katz Sent from Gmail
Mobile

  
  

  
  

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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[MDElectricSolar]

Is there an inverter, you could power it with 120 or 240V AC?

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM Gary Higbee 
wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed Lorentz
> ETApump (after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re looking for a quality
> DC-DC converter to power a not-yet- ordered Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a
> 24 V Surrette battery bank (wish it was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A
> and the curves say we’ll need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at
> least 70 volts out. Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a
> couple hundred feet of larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A
> (see questions).
>
> The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a fallback
> for battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch
> box, which will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also the CU 200 SQFlex
> control unit, so we can accommodate the existing float switch up the hill,
> etc.
>
> The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system should be
> able to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The pump curve says we
> need 600W for maximum performance at the lift we’ve got. It seems to me
> that if we’ve got 200V and need 600W we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the
> Grundfos factory line is there should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The
> tech guy said he didn’t have specific information why we’d need 8.4A
> regardless of pump input voltage.
>
> The Grundfos Product Guide says:
>
> *Max. ratings are as follows:*
> *• Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W*
> *• maximum current of 8.4 A*
> *• maximum speed of 3600 rpm *(think I read somewhere it’s 3000 rpm for
> this helical rotor model)
>
> *The pump delivers its maximum performance when **one of the above
> parameters is reached.*
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and what to
> make of the 8.4A at any input voltage factory recommendation? Maybe basic
> amps/volts/power calculations aren’t applicable given the pump electronics?
>
> 2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a nominal
> 24V battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and 200V, with an
> appropriate current limiting amp rating to get us at least 600W (depending
> on thoughts regarding the above question)?
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Higbee
> Windstream Solar
> Oregon License 17LRT
> Renewable Energy Consulting
> g...@windstreamsolar.com
> 541-954-3881
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-- 
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar Inc.
Office: 707-884-1862
Cell: 707-684-0064
www.mdelectricsolar.com
www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[Ray]

I agree that an inverter is your most viable voltage converter. There is 
no good reason to go DC to DC that I can see.  The other option would be 
to switch the array to operate the pump directly. Use a Charge 
controller that operates the array at the same voltage the pump needs to 
operate at, and have an array transfer switch from CC to pump.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/21/18 12:24 PM, MDElectricSolar wrote:

Is there an inverter, you could power it with 120 or 240V AC?

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM Gary Higbee > wrote:


Hi Wrenches,

I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed
Lorentz ETApump (after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re
looking for a quality DC-DC converter to power a not-yet- ordered
Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a 24 V Surrette battery bank (wish it
was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A and the curves say we’ll
need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at least 70 volts out.
Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a couple hundred
feet of larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A (see
questions).

The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a
fallback for battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101
SQFlex switch box, which will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also
the CU 200 SQFlex control unit, so we can accommodate the existing
float switch up the hill, etc.

The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system
should be able to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The
pump curve says we need 600W for maximum performance at the lift
we’ve got. It seems to me that if we’ve got 200V and need 600W
we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the Grundfos factory line is there
should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The tech guy said he didn’t
have specific information why we’d need 8.4A regardless of pump
input voltage.

The Grundfos Product Guide says:

*Max. ratings are as follows:*
*• Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W*
*• maximum current of 8.4 A*
*• maximum speed of 3600 rpm *(think I read somewhere it’s 3000
rpm for this helical rotor model)
*
*
*The pump delivers its maximum performance when **one of the above
parameters is reached.*

Two questions:

1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and
what to make of the 8.4A at any input voltage factory
recommendation? Maybe basic amps/volts/power calculations aren’t
applicable given the pump electronics?

2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a
nominal 24V battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and
200V, with an appropriate current limiting amp rating to get us at
least 600W (depending on thoughts regarding the above question)?


Thank you,

Gary

Gary Higbee
Windstream Solar
Oregon License 17LRT
Renewable Energy Consulting
g...@windstreamsolar.com 
541-954-3881
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--
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar Inc.
Office: 707-884-1862
Cell: 707-684-0064
www.mdelectricsolar.com 
www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar 






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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Sindelar Solar]

Yes, I just did. Ralph retired last year and I spoke with the new owner. 
In short, little change - use 2% of capacity for amp threshold and set 
CEF to 98% from default 94%. I was also told to stick with the default 
14.1V voltage threshold, but that equates to 56.4V for a 48V system, 
which is above the normal range of these batteries, so I'm reluctant to 
take that advice.


I'm working with Kyle Bolger of Blue Planet on this first installation, 
and will post to the list what I learn that will benefit others.


Thank you, Allan

On 8/21/2018 11:29 AM, Howie Michaelson wrote:

Allan, have you talked directly with Bogart?
Howie

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:56 PM Sindelar Solar 
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:


Wrenches,
I  would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently
installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost
exclusively with existing off grid systems, often older systems
most of which have TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer
TM2030. Has anyone successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to
accurately register SOC and other data with LFP batteries? If so
can you provide some guidance as to program settings?
Thank you,
Allan


--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Gary,

The SQFlex is current limited to 8.4A regardless of voltage. I have not had 
positive experiences running SQFlex from DC voltage from a battery. It can 
work, but you will not get full output volume if you are restricted to 48VDC. 
The SQFlex is really designed to work with higher DC voltages up to 300 VDC 
from PV arrays. We run many at 120VDC PV direct and that works well. I expect, 
not tested, that a 120VDC battery bank would also run it well but that is 
uncommon.

Have you considered having a second small inverter from the battery to fulfil 
customer's request for redundant power supply? Lots simpler. That is what we 
ended up doing on a few sites we did try DC, 24V 600W inverters are low cost 
and simple. Or could you switch some of the PV to use as DC-direct as a backup?

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Gary Higbee
Sent: August-21-18 11:18 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

Hi Wrenches,

I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed Lorentz ETApump 
(after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re looking for a quality DC-DC 
converter to power a not-yet- ordered Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a 24 V 
Surrette battery bank (wish it was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A and the 
curves say we’ll need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at least 70 volts 
out. Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a couple hundred feet of 
larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A (see questions).

The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a fallback for 
battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch box, which 
will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also the CU 200 SQFlex control unit, so we 
can accommodate the existing float switch up the hill, etc.

The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system should be able 
to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The pump curve says we need 600W 
for maximum performance at the lift we’ve got. It seems to me that if we’ve got 
200V and need 600W we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the Grundfos factory line is 
there should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The tech guy said he didn’t have 
specific information why we’d need 8.4A regardless of pump input voltage.

The Grundfos Product Guide says:

Max. ratings are as follows:
• Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W
• maximum current of 8.4 A
• maximum speed of 3600 rpm (think I read somewhere it’s 3000 rpm for this 
helical rotor model)

The pump delivers its maximum performance when one of the above parameters is 
reached.

Two questions:

1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and what to make of 
the 8.4A at any input voltage factory recommendation? Maybe basic 
amps/volts/power calculations aren’t applicable given the pump electronics?

2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a nominal 24V 
battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and 200V, with an appropriate 
current limiting amp rating to get us at least 600W (depending on thoughts 
regarding the above question)?


Thank you,

Gary

Gary Higbee
Windstream Solar
Oregon License 17LRT
Renewable Energy Consulting
g...@windstreamsolar.com
541-954-3881
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[jay]

HI Gary,

The customer is always right, ha.

If they want a DC option, I know you can find the right part.
As to how big of a DC DC converter, yea I would want it to handle whatever the 
pump could draw.  If there is any way that a valve could be closed or a pipe 
frozen or clogged, the pump will push and push and push and draw max amount of 
watts. Under normal load, it won’t of course.  PV direct you’ll be watt 
limited, but with a battery, no limits up to max pump watt draw and you don’t 
want the converter to fail.  

jay

peltz power





> On Aug 21, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Gary Higbee  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wrenches,
> 
> I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed Lorentz 
> ETApump (after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re looking for a quality 
> DC-DC converter to power a not-yet- ordered Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a 24 
> V Surrette battery bank (wish it was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A and 
> the curves say we’ll need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at least 70 
> volts out. Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a couple hundred 
> feet of larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A (see questions).
> 
> The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a fallback for 
> battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch box, 
> which will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also the CU 200 SQFlex control unit, 
> so we can accommodate the existing float switch up the hill, etc.
> 
> The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system should be able 
> to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The pump curve says we need 600W 
> for maximum performance at the lift we’ve got. It seems to me that if we’ve 
> got 200V and need 600W we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the Grundfos factory line 
> is there should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The tech guy said he didn’t 
> have specific information why we’d need 8.4A regardless of pump input 
> voltage. 
> 
> The Grundfos Product Guide says:
> 
> Max. ratings are as follows:
> • Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W
> • maximum current of 8.4 A
> • maximum speed of 3600 rpm (think I read somewhere it’s 3000 rpm for this 
> helical rotor model)
> 
> The pump delivers its maximum performance when one of the above parameters is 
> reached.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and what to make 
> of the 8.4A at any input voltage factory recommendation? Maybe basic 
> amps/volts/power calculations aren’t applicable given the pump electronics?
> 
> 2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a nominal 24V 
> battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and 200V, with an appropriate 
> current limiting amp rating to get us at least 600W (depending on thoughts 
> regarding the above question)?
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Gary
> 
> Gary Higbee
> Windstream Solar
> Oregon License 17LRT
> Renewable Energy Consulting
> g...@windstreamsolar.com 
> 541-954-3881
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> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Hi Allan,

All LFP batteries can be charged to a much higher voltage than we will ever 
use. Some as high as 4.2Vpc. A disconnect voltage of 3.8 Vpc is typical 
protection voltage for LFP batteries which is below the well maximum charge 
voltage. Some recommend charging to 3.65Vpc, others a little less. 56.4 is low 
at 3.52V. Our cell balancers don’t even start to function until 3.5 volts and 
above. Using a  low voltage can also cause a problem with the SoC calculations.

Using a Trimetric is easy if you use a high enough charge voltage of 3.55Vpc or 
higher and charge at .5C or less.  
You can use L1 settings only, P7 Off. 
Simply setup the reset parameter P1 voltage about 0.2V below charge voltage. 
Leave P2 Charge Amps off. 
Set P3 AH to match actual capacity. 
When voltage parameter is met, you are close enough and it resets to 100%. This 
is due to internal resistance. Your voltage will not go high until you are at 
about 98% or so.

FWIW, if your concern is about harming the Li cells, we have never had a single 
cell failure. We have had several ruined cells from neglect caused by over 
discharging when people did not follow EMS assembly instructions. With 4 cells 
in a 12 volt battery pack, I am talking about thousands of cells we have sold 
in the last 5 years. LFP is rugged, very fast to charge and will last a long 
time with little care.

When I read things about Li batteries on the internet, it makes my head spin 
from all the folklore, falsehoods and fear-born myths. Careful what you read.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On Aug 21, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Sindelar Solar  wrote:

Yes, I just did. Ralph retired last year and I spoke with the new owner. In 
short, little change - use 2% of capacity for amp threshold and set CEF to 98% 
from default 94%. I was also told to stick with the default 14.1V voltage 
threshold, but that equates to 56.4V for a 48V system, which is above the 
normal range of these batteries, so I'm reluctant to take that advice.

I'm working with Kyle Bolger of Blue Planet on this first installation, and 
will post to the list what I learn that will benefit others.

Thank you, Allan


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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[Darryl Thayer]

let me make a stupid suggestion, why not dedicate an inverter?  Ask
Grundfos if modified sine wave would be OK or use something like the
Outback FXR sine wave inverter or the Magnum, or the Schneider.SW4024.

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:17 PM Gary Higbee 
wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed Lorentz
> ETApump (after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re looking for a quality
> DC-DC converter to power a not-yet- ordered Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a
> 24 V Surrette battery bank (wish it was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A
> and the curves say we’ll need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at
> least 70 volts out. Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a
> couple hundred feet of larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A
> (see questions).
>
> The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a fallback
> for battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch
> box, which will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also the CU 200 SQFlex
> control unit, so we can accommodate the existing float switch up the hill,
> etc.
>
> The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system should be
> able to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The pump curve says we
> need 600W for maximum performance at the lift we’ve got. It seems to me
> that if we’ve got 200V and need 600W we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the
> Grundfos factory line is there should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The
> tech guy said he didn’t have specific information why we’d need 8.4A
> regardless of pump input voltage.
>
> The Grundfos Product Guide says:
>
> *Max. ratings are as follows:*
> *• Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W*
> *• maximum current of 8.4 A*
> *• maximum speed of 3600 rpm *(think I read somewhere it’s 3000 rpm for
> this helical rotor model)
>
> *The pump delivers its maximum performance when **one of the above
> parameters is reached.*
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and what to
> make of the 8.4A at any input voltage factory recommendation? Maybe basic
> amps/volts/power calculations aren’t applicable given the pump electronics?
>
> 2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a nominal
> 24V battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and 200V, with an
> appropriate current limiting amp rating to get us at least 600W (depending
> on thoughts regarding the above question)?
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Higbee
> Windstream Solar
> Oregon License 17LRT
> Renewable Energy Consulting
> g...@windstreamsolar.com
> 541-954-3881
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