Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Jay,

Is version 3.0 OK? I have a few of those.

Larry




On Aug 6, 2021, at 7:06 AM, Jay  wrote:

Speaking of magnum

Does anyone have a arc-50 lying around needing a home. ( could be used)A 
customer has an inverter and really needs the control. 
Thx
Jay



> On Aug 6, 2021, at 3:04 AM, RE Ellison  wrote:
> 
> 
> Magnum has been my off grid inverter basically since they first come out 
> I actually had serial number one of one of them and it would take a lot of 
> research to figure out how many over the years but I used to buy direct from 
> Magnum (I was simply in the right place at the right time talking to the 
> right individual)!
> 
> I understand that they have shipped production overseas and as you might 
> expect apparently it’s not working out well.
> 
> I have two that I would like to get some boards for to get them up and 
> working instead of having them just laying around and I can’t stand to throw 
> out what would be a good inverter with a simple board change ! But I’m not in 
> a critical position so I will just wait just more dust to knock off them 
> that’s all !
> 
> I hope they get it straightened around,
> 
> Bob Ellison
> 
> On Aug 5, 2021, at 8:12 PM, Andrew Perkins  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hey Ron,
>>It's not just you it's hard for us down here in the states. I had an 
>> RMA that took months to get a new inverter only to have FedEx abuse it so 
>> bad that I needed another RMA for an inverter I can't get so I'm looking at 
>> another month. They are starting to show back up though. 
>> 
>> 
>> Andrew Perkins
>> Greenwired
>> 
>> 
>>  On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 17:07:41 -0700 solarea...@solareagle.com 
>>  wrote 
>> 
>> Magnum has been my go to inverter for off-grid systems for years, always 
>> found them to be solid and reliable. This year (at least in Canada) we are 
>> waiting literally months to fill orders on 4024’s, 4448 and other 
>> components. I know that in general there are supply line issues on 
>> everything due to Covid fallout of various kinds. But are US 
>> dealers/installers having the same problem with Magnum supply or is this a 
>> Canadian issue?
>> 
>> Any comments on the new Midnite DIY inverters?
>> 
>> Ron Young
>> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a 108V battery bank

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Hi Jason,

Considering temperature affect on voltage, you would choose something just 
above the Vmp. As the array becomes illuminated, voltage will rise but the 
battery is always a full load to the PV array. Voltage will never go higher 
than battery OV protection while connected or the open circuit voltage when 
disconnected. 

If the Vmp is close to the battery max voltage, MPPT does not matter as the 
gains are small. The battery can be charged at 3C so current is not an issue 
either. 


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Jul 1, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Rockisland  wrote:

Hi Larry,

So no MPPT in that situation and how much extra Vmp on the PV’s is recommended 
above operating battery Voltage?

Thanks,

Jason

RemoteEnergy.org <http://remoteenergy.org/>


> On Jul 1, 2021, at 2:18 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
> <mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:
> 
> Just thought I would throw out that with an Elite Power Solutions Li-ion 
> battery system you can connect a PV solar source directly to the battery, no 
> PV controller needed. The EMS will monitor each cell and open the charge 
> relay when the battery is full. The dual solenoid controller will allow loads 
> to operate uninterrupted. 
> 
> Use a DC down converter to share power to the 48V battery or loads.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 30, 2021, at 1:50 PM, Dave Tedeyan  <mailto:d...@sungineersolar.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> I am going to be working with someone who plans to completely electrify a 
> boat. The electric motor is meant to run on nine 12V batteries, or 108V. The 
> motor manufacturer recommends a charger that can run on 120V or 240V. But has 
> anyone seen a charger that can take solar power and directly charge a battery 
> bank of 108V? The alternative that I see here is to have two separate battery 
> banks, one for the motor, and one for house loads. Then we would have the 
> solar charge a 48V battery bank, and then use an inverter to charge the 108V 
> battery bank. It seems inefficient, although that may be the only choice.
> 
> A separate but related question: what is special about a marine inverter? If 
> there is a 5kw charger for the battery bank, we will need a large inverter to 
> handle this plus other AC loads, and I am not sure if there are "marine" 
> inverters this large. And so other than concerns about getting wet, is there 
> harm to putting a Radian, or a Sol-Ark on a boat?
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 
> -- 
>  <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
> c: (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a 108V battery bank

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Just thought I would throw out that with an Elite Power Solutions Li-ion 
battery system you can connect a PV solar source directly to the battery, no PV 
controller needed. The EMS will monitor each cell and open the charge relay 
when the battery is full. The dual solenoid controller will allow loads to 
operate uninterrupted. 

Use a DC down converter to share power to the 48V battery or loads.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Jun 30, 2021, at 1:50 PM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:

Hi All, 

I am going to be working with someone who plans to completely electrify a boat. 
The electric motor is meant to run on nine 12V batteries, or 108V. The motor 
manufacturer recommends a charger that can run on 120V or 240V. But has anyone 
seen a charger that can take solar power and directly charge a battery bank of 
108V? The alternative that I see here is to have two separate battery banks, 
one for the motor, and one for house loads. Then we would have the solar charge 
a 48V battery bank, and then use an inverter to charge the 108V battery bank. 
It seems inefficient, although that may be the only choice.

A separate but related question: what is special about a marine inverter? If 
there is a 5kw charger for the battery bank, we will need a large inverter to 
handle this plus other AC loads, and I am not sure if there are "marine" 
inverters this large. And so other than concerns about getting wet, is there 
harm to putting a Radian, or a Sol-Ark on a boat?

Cheers,
Dave

-- 
   
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Air Conditioning energy usage

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

William,

The LRA of an A/C system is the peak current demand. The inverter must be sized 
for that and all other potential loads if using a single inverter. For that 
reason, we have almost always used a dedicated inverter for an A/C systems and 
leave the primary inverter for all other loads. That way the A/C will start no 
matter what other loads are on the primary inverter. 

Install a hard start capacitor unit (sometimes now called soft start) if it is 
not factory equipped with one. Using Li-ion batteries is also recommended due 
to voltage sag using LA. Otherwise, you may want to size a LA bank larger for 
the additional current demand while starting.

We have been doing separate inverters for 120V RV A/C’s and 240V mini splits 
this way for years and it has been trouble free. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems





On Jun 23, 2021, at 9:30 AM, William Miller  wrote:

Friends:
 
In the old days when a client suggested they might want to run air conditioning 
equipment on an off-grid system we would just laugh.  Now I find I get that 
request more frequently and clients are willing to pay to acquire enough system 
capacity to run AC equipment.
 
This means I need to size off-grid installations appropriately for the loads.  
I have a job pending with a 5 ton AC unit.  I cannot find real-life energy 
specs.
 
I do have a new, fairly efficient 3 ton unit at my grid-connected home and I do 
have energy monitoring.  On a real hot day recently we used a little less than 
11kWh in this unit.  The max power draw was about 2.5 kW.
 
Here are my questions:  
 
1.   Can I linearly extrapolate my usage to a 5 ton unit?
2.   Do any of you have real-life, measured energy data on modern AC condenser 
units that you would be willing to share?
 
Thanks in advance!
 
William Miller
 
Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com 
CA Lic. 773985
 
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] in search of 31" wide solar panel

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Hello Nik,

I believe I have 1 new VBHN235SA06 (HIT 235S) in stock. I’ll contact our 
warehouse and have them do a hands on verification.

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103





On Jun 18, 2021, at 8:41 AM, Nik Ponzio, Building Energy 
 wrote:

We need a single panel to replace a damaged unit in a very visible location. 
The original panel is a Panasonic HIT225 (circa 2013) with dimensions 62.2 x 
31.4 x 1.8 in. The critical dimension is the width. I have about 4 inches to 
work with on the mounting rails, but can't go all the way up to a 40" wide 
panel. Ideally black-on-white, but this is less critical than dimensions. 

Any suggestions? Please respond off-list.

 
--
Nik Ponzio
Building Energy
1570 South Brownell Road
Williston, VT 05495
direct: 802-318-7003
npon...@buildingenergyus.com
http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com 

 
"Building Solutions for a Sustainable Future"


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Exploding LFP battery

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Damaged Li battery safety, For information only.
Our procedure to decommission any suspect failed LFP cell is to apply small 
load (<0.05C) until all electrochemical energy is removed. This should 
preferably be done in a safe area outside. After full discharge, physically 
damage the cell terminals so it can not find it’s way back into service. 

No stored energy the battery means you just have a container with various 
elements like Aluminum, copper, lithium, graphite and so forth. See MSDS your 
battery. Unfortunately, carriers still consider this a Li battery and apply UN 
hazmat shipping rules. For now, we are storing cells until recycling is cost 
effective for us. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Jun 15, 2021, at 11:00 PM, Jeff Clearwater  
wrote:

Hey Jay,

So I don't believe ReLion batteries are openable - so it's most likely that 
when he decided to open it he cut into it and shorted the leads.

As for recycling - first is health safety!  I'd suggest he contact the 
manufacturer and get specific instructions for safing the mess.  Will Prowess 
of DIY Solar Youtube channel had some leaky cells and the manufacturer sent 
specific instructions to contain and ship back the unit.  You could contact him 
and he might know but the manufacturer might know better for that specific 
model.

Hope that helps!

Jeff C.
Village Power Design

> frenergy  June 15, 2021 at 9:39 PM
> Very few details...What does it mean "he opened it up"  I would even know how 
> to do that with the L-ions I've been around, seems like its something a 
> manufacturer should be doing.  Temperature?  charge rate? recent usage 
> history? Age? Was it disconnected? Did contacts touch a conductor?
> 
> You can probably get water to explode if you abuse it just right.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric  
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net 
> On 6/15/2021 8:14 PM, Jay wrote:
> -- 
> 
> 
>  
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com 
>  
> 
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> Jay  June 15, 2021 at 8:14 PM
> A fellow installer sent me this just now. 
> The battery wasn’t working, 5v. 
> He opened it up and it exploded when he opened it. The lid hit the roof. 
> Fortunately no one was injured. 
> 
> Anyone know what to do with this? IE recycling?
> 
> And just another example of non explosive lithium batteries exploding
> 
> Jay
> Peltz power. 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 Low Temp Charging Damage

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

The problem with Battle born heated battery is that it was an after thought. It 
uses power from the battery to heat itself and may fully discharge the battery.

LiFeBlue battery does not use any energy from the battery for heating. It also 
has an advanced BMS-heater controller that can pass low current, up to 0.07C, 
directly to the cells so early morning PV solar power is fully utilized until 
enough charge current is available to turn on the internal heater. In addition 
to all batteries having Bluetooth SoC monitoring built in, the Version 3 
batteries have dual modbus ports for developing communications and control.
https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/300ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(Disclosure: I have a financial interest in LiFeBlue Battery)




On Jun 5, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Chris Worcester  wrote:

Check out Battle Born Batteries out of Reno, they have heater kits available 
for their LiFePO4 100 ah batteries. Just came out with a 280 ah 8D size, don't 
see a heater kit for it yet. Will check back in with them soon to see if it's 
on the shelf. 

Chris Worcester
Solar Wind Works
NABCEP PV Installation Professional
Cell 530-448-9692
www.solarwindworks.com
ch...@solarwindworks.com

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 12:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 Low Temp Charging Damage

I can think of a few other things for the wish list! l Closed loop charging 
with multiple sources. 
Robust BMS design to not be a new source of power failures Offgrid.
Spare BMS for sale with product that is servicable.
Gets Soc and temp into Insight and Optics A company that will be there when I 
need them. Too many players in the battery game right now that I do not know 
of! Only a few that do most all of these for me.

Friday !

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On Fri, 21 May 2021 12:24:11 -0400, Ray  wrote:
> This is the only company I know of that has dealt with the low 
> temperature charging issue.  Its a great product, and the blue tooth 
> monitoring is an excellent feature too.  This is what the other Li+ 
> batteries should be doing.  The big down side is they are currently 
> limited to 12v.  Wish they made a 48v pack.
> 
> 
https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/index.html
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> 
> On 5/21/21 12:12 PM, Larry wrote:
>> My personal opinion is that you should not buy any lithium battery 
>> that does not provide adequate protection for all modes of operation.
>> 
>> Freezing does not damage the battery; charging a frozen battery may 
>> damage it quickly. Trickle charging the battery is not the solution.
>> 
>> There are two solutions: provide a heat source to keep the batteries 
>> above freezing or incorporate a temperature controller to disable the 
>> charger if the battery is unsafe to charge.
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 21, 2021, at 8:44 AM, Mark Frye 
wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks,
>>> 
>>> If I have a charger that does not have low battery charge cut-off, I 
>>> can get in trouble if I have a frozen pack and apply a charging
voltage.
>>> 
>>> But, if I start with a pack that is above freezing and keep a 
>>> trickle charge on it, can I keep that pack safe from freezing and damage?
>>> 
>>> Or at some point, as ambient temperature drops, the pack will freeze 
>>> and be damaged anyway?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Mark Frye
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Mac,

You can charge with DC directly from a PV solar array without an inverter or 
regulator. The current is self limiting by the amount of PV solar power you are 
making at any moment.

The magic is knowing know how to trigger the charge port communications so your 
EV controller knows that there is a safe connection to a DC power source. 
Perhaps the will get you started: 
https://www.evcreate.nl/chademo-fast-charging-in-diy/

Be safe when working with 500Vdc.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Apr 12, 2021, at 5:05 PM, Matt Sherald  wrote:

Mac,

Our car gobbles 11,500W when it's plugged in to the grid.  Even if we reduced 
the charge rate it would still be a heck of a draw - the chargers in the EVs 
are greedy.  I'll be curious to hear if anyone has a solution, but my bet is 
that you need to give the EV a deep well to pull from (probably deeper than a 
battery bank or PV array can directly and consistently satisfy).

-Matt

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 7:55 PM Mac Lewis mailto:maclew...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry, I should have clarified, I am interested in EV charging with no grid 
available.  I think that Solaredge requires a grid

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:51 PM Dana Orzel mailto:d...@solarwork.com>> wrote:
SolarEdge

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.greatsolarworks.com 

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> On Behalf Of Mac Lewis
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM
To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

 

Hey wrenches,

 

Are there any purpose built inverters designed to charge an EV,  PV direct 
without batteries?

 

Thanks in advance



 

--

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

We have used a few of the Genasun up converters on 48V golf carts. They have 
worked flawlessly. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Apr 13, 2021, at 10:13 AM, Alex MeVay  wrote:

Hi Jason, et al.,

Applications in our size range don't come up too often on this list,
so I've been mostly an appreciative lurker, but I'd like to introduce
myself as the contact for Genasun and Blue Sky Energy, (and the
engineer behind the GVB-8 controller in question).

To address a few of the questions that have been asked, the GVB-8 can
be programmed at the factory with any custom charge profile desired if
none of the off-the-shelf options are a good match.  Efficiency at
~48V nominal is >98% over most of the power range, and the controllers
employ true MPPT, so no configuration is necessary for different
panels.

As mentioned, 10A Imp input is on the high side for the GVB.  Most
Genasun controllers were designed when PV was expensive and panels
were smaller.  Although they do have current limits and thermal
rollback for self-protection, running continuously at the standard
current limit would be hard on the electronics.  Panels have grown,
and there is more interest in PV-heavy installations.  As we redesign
and re-qualify our controllers, we have developed a few workarounds.
The GVB-8 can be ordered with the LOWCURLIM (low current limit)
firmware option, which limits the input current to about the rated 8A,
allowing use with oversize panels, such as the 420W panel in question.

Separately, thank you all for the expertise you share on this list.
I've learned a lot about installation and code issues for small (and
large) solar, and it's given me a great appreciation for the
challenges you face trying to integrate all the various pieces of
equipment to give your customers a good experience.

Regards,

Alex MeVay

Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible panel install on airstream

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

We have always used Dicor 501LSW and screws for flexible modules. Apply a few 
ounces to back of module and around the screw holes if using screws, place the 
module on roof, roll in with a roller to spread the sealant some. If it oozes 
out the edges it will self level. Apply 501 over screw tops (photo is example 
of 501LSW covering 5 lag bolts and mounting foot) Great stuff.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Mar 24, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Andrew Perkins  wrote:

Hey Wrenches,
   Here to get some advice on mounting options for some Renogy flexible 
panels on an airstream. I usually say no to any rvs but they are friends of the 
owner so it's in my lap now. The panels have 6 eyelets on them for mounting so 
I was thinking of using some sikaflex adhesive for the pack of the panels and 
then some blind rivets for the eyelets with small piece of butyl between the 
the bottom of the eyelet and the roof of the airstream to seal the holes. 
Anyone done these before or have any advise?



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Concorde Lifeline Batteries

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

FWIW, after selling Lifeline for about 13 years, we discontinued sales due to 
early battery failures. The capacity loss of a single battery in a series bank 
became very high to where some battery banks needed replacing in 1-3 years. 
Earlier batteries (from about 2001)  were lasting 6 to 10 years. We had one 
customer that followed our recommendation to use high voltage and equalize 
regularly that had the batteries for 13 years before changing to Li-ion. That 
battery bank (12kWh, average discharge about 20% DoD) was sold to someone who 
is still using it. 

The early batteries were great and had our highest recommendation. We changed 
to installing Fullriver instead which has been as good as the early Lifeline 
batteries. 

I spoke with Lifeline about the early failures and their conclusion was that we 
or our customers were doing something wrong. We have probably installed over 
600 Lifeline battery systems (2S2P and larger) over the years using practically 
identical power systems. I’m sure we did not decrease the care of our 
installations or customer education on proper use. I would like to know if 
anyone else experienced premature Lifeline failures, especially if it is 
recent.   

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

A typical install of Lifeline 2V cells, 15kWh bank, RV system, Magnum Energy, 
Midnite Solar



On Mar 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

Is there any reason to use Concorde Sun Xtender batteries instead of Concorde 
Lifeline batteries with PV systems?

The Lifeline is what is available from my supplier at this time?

Thanks,

Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Residential tax credit

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Hi Drake,

Whoever owns the property claims the credit. Unless things have changed, the 
unused portion of the credit can be carried over for up to 20 years. He could 
use portion of it each year.

Larry


On Mar 15, 2021, at 12:55 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

A client would like to have an 11 kW residential system installed. He would 
like to utilize the federal tax credit, but is retired and doesn’t have 
sufficient income to benefit.

His son would finance most of the system if he could get the credit. His son is 
grown and lives out of state. Is there a good way to accomplish this? Should 
they set up a PPA?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
athens-electric.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

You can have 120V circuits that would never need line balancing and 240V loads 
on the main panel. Then put any 120V circuits that may need line balancing on 
the PSX sub panel.   

Larry

On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:21 PM, Amos Post  wrote:

Thanks Larry,

This would be a 240V to 120V step down configuration correct?  So the sub panel 
would be 120V only?

Best,
Amos


   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com <http://www.ienergyvt.com/>
Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl>

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
> <mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:
> 
> Amos,
> 
> When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will 
> provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. 
> A 240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and 
> any 240Vac loads stay on the main panel.
> 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post  <mailto:integrityenergy...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
> build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
> Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
> sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
> but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
> saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
> motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
> inverter’s output.  
> 
> Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
> “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
> 120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
> but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  
> Would be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house 
> loads using the PSX-240?..
> 
> 
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
>     ienergyVT.com <http://www.ienergyvt.com/>
> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl>
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
>> <mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:
>> 
>> If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to 
>> balance the loads?
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese > <mailto:luccheseso...@me.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning Wrenches,
>> 
>> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
>> heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
>> inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? 
>> I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to 
>> detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 
>> watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems 
>> like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled 
>> scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple 
>> weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right equipment.
>> 
>> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
>> had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
>> 
>> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
>> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX 
>> mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if 
>> the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
>> batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority 
>> of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
>> shutdowns.
>> 
>> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the 
>> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 
>> 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these 
>> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long 
>> enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most 
>> reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to 
>&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to balance 
the loads?

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote:

Good morning Wrenches,

I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I 
could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail on 
balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that might 
occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would also be 
less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d 
be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that 
trusted me to offer the right equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode 
and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the 
continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority of 
the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
shutdowns.

There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the thought 
of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 115 but I’m 
kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these shutdowns occur 
even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long enough history with 
them to chime in with your observations? Are they most reliable for AC coupled 
with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to Home” mode?

Thanks for your time, 
Nick A Lucchese

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Programmable battery chargers

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

I have never seen a DLS converter with rivets. Screws are used in the sides or 
top panel. Are you thinking of the DLS-X series?

Larry

On Jan 5, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Andrew Perkins  wrote:

Yeah we used to be able to open up the IOTAs and do that now they are all 
riveted shut! I was using Powermax for a long while but they kept failing on us 
so I went back to iota. I am selling those Rolls S6 series L16s and they need 
to be charged at a higher voltage but none of the standard presets will go that 
high. Maybe ill give them another shot.

Thanks for the reminder.




Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com 

<1596050015677007_1701277005.png>



 On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 22:38:14 +  wrote 

Andrew,

We open the Iota DLS series and adjust the output voltage for our needs. Have 
done that for many years. The dual voltage jack can then be used for 0.6 Volts 
switching. We have also used relays and external voltage controllers to 
automate the DLS voltage switching when the IQ module is insufficient.  

Also look at the Powermax PM series. They have a voltage adjustment but don’t 
have the dual voltage that DLS offers.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Jan 5, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Andrew Perkins mailto:and...@greenwired.com>> wrote:

Hello Wrenches,
  I have been looking for some programmable battery chargers probably 
around 50 amps that I can set a specific voltage, I have been using IOTA in the 
past but its only a fixed voltage and some of the batteries I have been selling 
require higher charge setpoints. I am mainly using these on 12v systems any 
thing higher I have just been using inverter/chargers like Magnum or Schneider. 
Just seeing what other people have been using out there. 



Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com 

<1596050015677007_1701277005.png>


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Programmable battery chargers

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Andrew,

We open the Iota DLS series and adjust the output voltage for our needs. Have 
done that for many years. The dual voltage jack can then be used for 0.6 Volts 
switching. We have also used relays and external voltage controllers to 
automate the DLS voltage switching when the IQ module is insufficient.  

Also look at the Powermax PM series. They have a voltage adjustment but don’t 
have the dual voltage that DLS offers.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Jan 5, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Andrew Perkins  wrote:

Hello Wrenches,
  I have been looking for some programmable battery chargers probably 
around 50 amps that I can set a specific voltage, I have been using IOTA in the 
past but its only a fixed voltage and some of the batteries I have been selling 
require higher charge setpoints. I am mainly using these on 12v systems any 
thing higher I have just been using inverter/chargers like Magnum or Schneider. 
Just seeing what other people have been using out there. 



Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com 

<1596050015677007_1701277005.png>


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sound Equipment Inverter

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

I second the Outback power quality. We built a mobile medical lab that has 
Xray, ultrasound and other sensitive lab electronics. A 120kWh Li-ion battery 
package with 8 Outback 3.6kW stacked inverters @ 48 volts has been operating 
almost weekly for over 3 years.

Run from Samlex. We were burned SO many times with poor quality inverters and 
worthless dealer support. If you want high quality, low cost, look at GoPower 
industrial models made by Cotek. Many sold, none come back. Able to start heavy 
loads like air compressors and circular saws.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Oct 22, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:

Wrenches
I have built solar powered sound stages, power trailers for both music and 
drive in movies, l only use outback, never any complaints, some acts prefer 
over dirty grid power. I had sunpower positive grounded arrays, AC-DC Coupled 
arrays. I had a guy use SMA and had all kinds of issues, mainly operator error. 
We did a full trailer, green room and light bars, powered drop down doors, but 
it was a little big.
Jerry

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 3:42 PM Ray mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:
Hi All;

I've just had an inquiry on building a portable sound stage and 
recording setup.  Traditionally we've always used Exeltech, as they've 
had the cleanest output, with background buzz on tube amps being lower 
than grid power.  Modsine were horrible, Old Trace SWs were pretty 
intolerable, Magnum's were usable, but still noticeably more buzz than 
grid.  I think THD is roughly associated with the background buzz, but 
there might be certain harmonics that are particularly problematic.  I 
haven't gotten into looking at the separate harmonics relative to what 
induces the most noise in these old vacuum tube circuits.

This is a 48 v application that also needs a built in charger with 
transfer switching.  Exeltech does not appear to have anything in that 
department.  Any other choices?  How are Samlex?

As always, thanks in advance for your time and expertise,

-- 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] lithium battery question

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

This is now common. As energy density increases, these cells are packaged in 
existing battery cases. I typically see about 15% more storage in GBS cells and 
about 10% for LiFeBlue Battery. 


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Aug 25, 2020, at 10:40 AM, Hugh Piggott  wrote:

First time I cycled my BYD batteries I got 20% more than rated kWh out of them. 
Based on third party Ah reading. 

Hugh


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Re: [RE-wrenches] lithium battery question

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Hello Jay,

No. Battery conditioning is not necessary for Li chemistry batteries. 
Conditioning is used in other chemistries like NiMH and NiCd. Even LA batteries 
are “conditioned” and increase their capacity during the first few months of 
cycles.

We see some confusion about Li battery for the above reasons. We also get 
questions about this because of the recommended initial charge that LiFeBlue 
Battery requires to calibrate the built in SoC meter. Basically for any Li 
battery, just connect it, charge it and use it. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:54 PM, jay  wrote:


Dear lithium experts

Do lithium LFP or NMC batteries have a break in period ( a certain number of 
cycles or any other specific parameters) to have full capacity?

Thx

jay 

peltz power


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tracker manual needed

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

William, 

Thank you for the larger pictures.The mount is a DIY unit converted from a 
polar axis mount that was originally made for a C band satellite antenna. The 
elevation adjustment mounting hole can be clearly seen. A pole cap has been 
fabricated and welded to the axis bar making it non adjustable for elevation. 
You can tell this because there is no mounting hole for the elevation 
adjustment on the cap.

Your best performance gain would be to orient N-S and let the actuator track 
E-W during the day.  

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On 7/22/20 3:53 PM, William Miller wrote:
> Friends:
>  
> So far it looks like I have stumped all of you on identifying these trackers. 
>  
>  
> These trackers are trying to work.  The electronics and motors are operable.  
> Unlike the diagram below, these trackers do not have an inclined axis to 
> allow the tracking to sweep from east to west with the panels inclined to 
> compensate for latitude and season.   
>  
> The trackers spun around their mounting poles and I simply want to know how 
> to orient the axis so I can put them back to work:
>  
> A.If I orient the axis N-S the tracker would track east to west with no 
> tilt towards the south.  
> B. If I orient the axis E-W the tracker would alter tilt angle as the day 
> progressed, but never facing other than due south.
>  
> This all seems strange, but maybe I just don’t have my mind wrapped around 
> the concept as applies to these units.  Maybe these mounts were modified in 
> the ancient past when they were installed.  The original installer is no 
> longer on this planet so he can’t be asked.
>  
> I created a web site to post all of the photos so anyone who is curious can 
> look at full sized images.  The web site is here 
> <https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/26-Mystery_tracker/Mystery_Tracker.html>.
>  
> Thanks everyone for trying to help.  This is a real head scratcher.
>  
> William
> 805-438-5600
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of 
> la...@starlightsolar.com <mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:53 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tracker manual needed
>  
> William,
>  
> This type of mount is a polar axis type and should be aligned with the pivot 
> N-S. The actuator can then swing the array E-W. The attached photo is an 
> example of how the mount was used in the C-band antenna days. (1980’s for the 
> young folks)
>  
> It’s hard to tell but it looks like the elevation bolt is missing that 
> connects the azimuth bar to the pole mount cap. Can you supply a better photo 
> of the mount? 
>  
> Set the elevation angle to latitude for best all year performance. Elevation 
> can also be seasonally adjusted for more gain. 
>  
> There are 3 types of sensors most commonly used in this style of linear 
> actuator. Hall effect, reed switch or a 10 turn potentiometer. 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>  
> 
>  
>  
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 8:33 AM, William Miller  <mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:
>  
> Dave:
>  
> The trackers appear to work. I am not clear on what  direction to orient 
> them. Do you know?
> 
> William Miller
> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>  
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

This, from a Nov 03, 2017 Powerwall 2 document, makes sense. Generator input in 
place of utility syncs with PV inverters and Powerwall inverter.

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Jul 20, 2020, at 1:25 PM, August Goers  wrote:

Tesla released new offgrid design and installation instructions April of this 
year. As a Powerwall dealer, we're under NDA not to share the document, but the 
Powerwall will now charge from the generator when it hits a certain SOC 
threshold if the PV is not running. I'm not sure about that caveat of not 
allowing the generator to run while the PV is running. It seems like there are 
plenty of times where there is low solar production and you want to fire up the 
generator to top off the batteries. They also have a low state of charge mode 
when SOC reaches 10%, that the Powerwall will turn on during the day for short 
periods of time just to test to see if the PV system will couple up to charge 
the battery. This AC-coupling method of reviving the battery may or not work 
depending on loads and PV sizing / production levels.

One limitation to the NMC battery technology is that it doesn't work well 
particularly in the cold, so offrige Powerwall batteries should be installed in 
the heated envelope of the home. 

August


On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:09 AM Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:
The Powerwall 2 is now supported by Tesla in an off-grid configuration from 
what I heard. It is AC coupled. It cannot interact with generators whatsoever. 
You can't charge the battery with a generator and you can't AC couple a 
generator to it. If you want a generator, you put a transfer switch on the load 
side of the gateway device. If the battery dies, the generator starts. The 
generator powers loads, but does not recharge the battery because it becomes 
isolated via the transfer switch. The big downside I see with that is there 
would be a loss of power to the loads until the generator fires up. I don't see 
a way around that.

I'm not a Tesla certified installer, but I have seen some of these batteries 
out in the wild and that's just the way it is - it's an integrated unit. I'd 
call it an "AC Battery," kind of like an AC PV Module. To answer another point 
in this thread, if the battery reaches its LBCO it can only recharge with PV in 
an off-grid scenario. It reserves battery capacity to turn on occasionally to 
see if there is PV input. At least that's how I understand it to work. I don't 
know what would happen if the battery actually reached 0%. Seems risky. I'm not 
sure how you would "jump start" it. Publicly available details seem scant on 
this, but there are a few system owners talking about it if you dig deep on the 
Interwebs.

It will be interesting to see what Enphase comes up with. There are generator 
inputs on their Ensemble system, but no software support for this yet. The 
concept is very similar to Tesla in that there is a gateway device, essentially 
a transfer switch with battery controls inside. The Gateway acts as the AC 
point of coupling for everything to tie in together. 

I'm not sure why you couldn't use a generator to charge the Powerwall battery 
the same way you would charge with the grid. However, you would need a way to 
disable PV AC coupling when the generator is running. I can see how Enphase 
would be able to do this pretty easily. But Tesla is clear in that they do not 
allow a generator to interact with the Powerwall in any way.

Jason Szumlanski





On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 11:43 AM Hilton Dier III  wrote:
Greetings, Wrenches,

I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla 
Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it 
appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but 
apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology, and 
I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, this was 
the best solution.

Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV system? 
Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing? What is the 
lead time on these?

Many Thanks,

Hilton

-- 
Hilton Dier III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?/Generator charging

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Hi William,

Thank you for your response. I was responding to the question of use off grid 
and Hiltons question about generator use. Jason said, "But Tesla is clear in 
that they do not allow a generator to interact with the Powerwall in any way.” 
This is true.

Powerwall uses AC coupled inverters for off grid charging. If AC from the 
micro-inverters was switched off and the generator provided the 240 Volt to the 
Powerwal inverter inputl, would that not be a temporary solution to the 
generator prohibition? The power wall would see incoming power and sync. Of 
course, the system must be monitored. If the power wall calls for cutback or 
disconnect by raising frequency, the generator should be disconnected, if it 
indeed works like that. If Powerwall provides an internal disconnect, then it 
would be safer for the user. Just trying to think outside the box.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Jul 20, 2020, at 12:01 PM, William Miller  wrote:

Larry:
 
I am not Tesla conversant but allow me to speculate:  If any grid-tied system 
can be fed from a generator it could also feed back to the generator, which may 
damage said generator.  The grid-tied system should therefore be connected 
upstream of any transfer switching, making it ineligible to be charged from the 
generator.
 
William
 
 
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of la...@starlightsolar.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 10:52 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?
 
Since the Powerwall is AC coupled, how will it know if the power source is a PV 
solar array or a generator if either feed the PV input? It seems simple AC 
switching is all that would be needed. I like to think outside the box but I’m 
not familiar with Powerwall.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

 
 
On Jul 20, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:
 
The Powerwall 2 is now supported by Tesla in an off-grid configuration from 
what I heard. It is AC coupled. It cannot interact with generators whatsoever. 
You can't charge the battery with a generator and you can't AC couple a 
generator to it. If you want a generator, you put a transfer switch on the load 
side of the gateway device. If the battery dies, the generator starts. The 
generator powers loads, but does not recharge the battery because it becomes 
isolated via the transfer switch. The big downside I see with that is there 
would be a loss of power to the loads until the generator fires up. I don't see 
a way around that.
 
I'm not a Tesla certified installer, but I have seen some of these batteries 
out in the wild and that's just the way it is - it's an integrated unit. I'd 
call it an "AC Battery," kind of like an AC PV Module. To answer another point 
in this thread, if the battery reaches its LBCO it can only recharge with PV in 
an off-grid scenario. It reserves battery capacity to turn on occasionally to 
see if there is PV input. At least that's how I understand it to work. I don't 
know what would happen if the battery actually reached 0%. Seems risky. I'm not 
sure how you would "jump start" it. Publicly available details seem scant on 
this, but there are a few system owners talking about it if you dig deep on the 
Interwebs.
 
It will be interesting to see what Enphase comes up with. There are generator 
inputs on their Ensemble system, but no software support for this yet. The 
concept is very similar to Tesla in that there is a gateway device, essentially 
a transfer switch with battery controls inside. The Gateway acts as the AC 
point of coupling for everything to tie in together. 
 
I'm not sure why you couldn't use a generator to charge the Powerwall battery 
the same way you would charge with the grid. However, you would need a way to 
disable PV AC coupling when the generator is running. I can see how Enphase 
would be able to do this pretty easily. But Tesla is clear in that they do not 
allow a generator to interact with the Powerwall in any way.
 
Jason Szumlanski
 
 
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 11:43 AM Hilton Dier III  wrote:
> Greetings, Wrenches,
> I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla 
> Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it 
> appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but 
> apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology, 
> and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, 
> this was the best solution.
> Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV 
> system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing? 
> What is the lead time on these?
> Many Thanks,
> Hilton
> -- 
> Hilton Dier III
> Missisquoi River Hydro
> Renewable Energy Design
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Since the Powerwall is AC coupled, how will it know if the power source is a PV 
solar array or a generator if either feed the PV input? It seems simple AC 
switching is all that would be needed. I like to think outside the box but I’m 
not familiar with Powerwall.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Jul 20, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:

The Powerwall 2 is now supported by Tesla in an off-grid configuration from 
what I heard. It is AC coupled. It cannot interact with generators whatsoever. 
You can't charge the battery with a generator and you can't AC couple a 
generator to it. If you want a generator, you put a transfer switch on the load 
side of the gateway device. If the battery dies, the generator starts. The 
generator powers loads, but does not recharge the battery because it becomes 
isolated via the transfer switch. The big downside I see with that is there 
would be a loss of power to the loads until the generator fires up. I don't see 
a way around that.

I'm not a Tesla certified installer, but I have seen some of these batteries 
out in the wild and that's just the way it is - it's an integrated unit. I'd 
call it an "AC Battery," kind of like an AC PV Module. To answer another point 
in this thread, if the battery reaches its LBCO it can only recharge with PV in 
an off-grid scenario. It reserves battery capacity to turn on occasionally to 
see if there is PV input. At least that's how I understand it to work. I don't 
know what would happen if the battery actually reached 0%. Seems risky. I'm not 
sure how you would "jump start" it. Publicly available details seem scant on 
this, but there are a few system owners talking about it if you dig deep on the 
Interwebs.

It will be interesting to see what Enphase comes up with. There are generator 
inputs on their Ensemble system, but no software support for this yet. The 
concept is very similar to Tesla in that there is a gateway device, essentially 
a transfer switch with battery controls inside. The Gateway acts as the AC 
point of coupling for everything to tie in together. 

I'm not sure why you couldn't use a generator to charge the Powerwall battery 
the same way you would charge with the grid. However, you would need a way to 
disable PV AC coupling when the generator is running. I can see how Enphase 
would be able to do this pretty easily. But Tesla is clear in that they do not 
allow a generator to interact with the Powerwall in any way.

Jason Szumlanski


On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 11:43 AM Hilton Dier III mailto:hiltond...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Greetings, Wrenches,

I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla 
Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it 
appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but 
apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology, and 
I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, this was 
the best solution.

Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV system? 
Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing? What is the 
lead time on these?

Many Thanks,

Hilton

-- 
Hilton Dier III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

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Re: [RE-wrenches] LI Batteries

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Peter,

This may be of interest to anyone looking into cheap Li battery products. For 7 
years we have been dealing in Li batteries as a retailer, installer, 
distributor and importer. Not a single day goes by that I don’t receive 1 or 
more emails from a Li-ion battery company in China. I’m not exaggerating. All 
are requesting that we import and sell their brand of battery. Most of them 
claim to have been in business for many years, have hundreds of employees and a 
huge variety of battery models. 

I asked our battery manufacturer (LiFeBlue Battery) about the growing number of 
cheap battery offerings I receive daily; their explanation follows: In China 
over the last 10 years there have been many startup cell manufacturers. Most of 
these companies fail leaving literally tons of orphaned battery cell 
inventories. These batteries may sit for years in unknown climates. Right now 
there are battery cells being sold on eB….auction site that I know were 
manufactured 5 years ago!  

Battery cell lots are eventually bought up and packaged under a new company 
name. These are usually very small businesses with just a few employees but 
with a big web presence. In China many use advertising guile (lying) to promote 
their product. The products are offered at much lower than current wholesale 
prices. For example, I can buy a 100Ah, 12V LFP drop in battery with BMS for 
$260. 

My point to all is, buyer beware when considering cheap Li battery offerings. 
Nervous is good, Peter.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:16 PM,   
wrote:

Hello Fellow wrenchers. Has anyone purchased and used any batteries from 
Electric Car Parts out of Utah. They have a 48 volt, 5, 7.5 and 10 KW Lipo 
battery made by Energetech ( China ) . I have a customer that would like to use 
the product ( low cost ) but it is tough getting any actual info from the 
company i.e UL Certification paperwork or do the batteries have a BMS. If 
anyone has any experience with these folks please let me know. Just looking out 
for my customer and the lack of response and follow up from ECP is making me 
nervous. Thank you all in advance.
 
Thx
Peter Giroux
American Solar
Roswell Ga
678 525 0468
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] How much Li battery?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Mark,

It is conceivable to use Li-ion without protection. To do so you must ALWAYS 
guarantee that you will not over charge, over current, over discharge or charge 
frozen cells…ever. This is a 0 tolerance rule. In a RE system, how can you be 
100% sure? 

Modest rates is not the issue. It’s already difficult to overcurrent the GBS 
cells. Over voltage a cell just once and you can cause damage or possibly fire. 
Similarly, if you over discharge a cell just once you can damage it and may 
cause a future fire while charging it normally.

Cell balancers only reduce a small amount of current on a single cell that is 
becoming saturated. It won’t stop over voltage.

To my knowledge there is no safe way to have a Li battery system without 
BMS/EMS unless you are always in control of charge/discharge events. 

Scold…now that you know, yes, consider yourself scolded.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On May 26, 2020, at 12:24 PM, Mark Frye  wrote:

Thanks Larry,

I am familiar with GBS cells. Would you scold me too badly if I told you my 
thought that with modest discharge rates and on the charge side, with cell 
balancers installed, and limiting the charge current to 15A, one doesn't really 
need the BMS for the 60AH pack? 

On 5/26/2020 10:47 AM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
<mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> One of the many benefits of Li-ion is the ability to provide much higher 
> continuous current than any comparable size LA battery.  
> 
> You don’t need more than 2kWh (40Ah) and want to know the smallest battery 
> you can use. To directly answer your question: A 60AH Elite Power Solutions 
> (GBS cells) battery bank @ 48V has about 3 kWh of energy storage. This is a 
> tiny battery bank, just 20”L x 11”W and weighs only 80 pounds. However, it 
> can provide a whopping 9kW (3C) continuous output and up to 31kW momentarily! 
> Thats much more than you will likely ever use. 
> 
> Though hard to imagine, this will work with your inverter. We have built 
> several 3kW inverter systems @ 12V with a single 100AH battery for starting 
> heavy loads like air compressors and air conditioners. No problem. Whether 
> this is the “best practice” will require more discussion. Let me know if you 
> need more detailed help as we have many years experience with Li-ion battery 
> systems.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> From: Mark Frye mailto:ma...@berkeleysolar.com>>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] How much Li battery?
> 
> In the way back machine I remember being at a product roll out meeting 
> for the brand new Outback FX inverter. I asked the engineer, what was 
> the smallest battery bank that could be connected to the inverter. He 
> said on the fly that probably you would want the battery to "weight" at 
> least as much as the inverter. I thought that was a great answer.
> 
> Fast forward, with a 4000w Outback Radian, AC coupled with 2000w of PV, 
> what is the smallest Li battery I would want for stable operation?
> 
> My loads don't really need more than 40ah of capacity.
> 
> What is the latest best practice on this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] How much Li battery?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Hi Mark,

One of the many benefits of Li-ion is the ability to provide much higher 
continuous current than any comparable size LA battery.  

You don’t need more than 2kWh (40Ah) and want to know the smallest battery you 
can use. To directly answer your question: A 60AH Elite Power Solutions (GBS 
cells) battery bank @ 48V has about 3 kWh of energy storage. This is a tiny 
battery bank, just 20”L x 11”W and weighs only 80 pounds. However, it can 
provide a whopping 9kW (3C) continuous output and up to 31kW momentarily! Thats 
much more than you will likely ever use. 

Though hard to imagine, this will work with your inverter. We have built 
several 3kW inverter systems @ 12V with a single 100AH battery for starting 
heavy loads like air compressors and air conditioners. No problem. Whether this 
is the “best practice” will require more discussion. Let me know if you need 
more detailed help as we have many years experience with Li-ion battery systems.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

From: Mark Frye mailto:ma...@berkeleysolar.com>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] How much Li battery?

In the way back machine I remember being at a product roll out meeting 
for the brand new Outback FX inverter. I asked the engineer, what was 
the smallest battery bank that could be connected to the inverter. He 
said on the fly that probably you would want the battery to "weight" at 
least as much as the inverter. I thought that was a great answer.

Fast forward, with a 4000w Outback Radian, AC coupled with 2000w of PV, 
what is the smallest Li battery I would want for stable operation?

My loads don't really need more than 40ah of capacity.

What is the latest best practice on this?

Thanks.

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[RE-wrenches] Battery purchase scam warning

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Has anyone received a request to quote 50 Lifeline GPL-6CT batteries? I think a 
scam might be going on. Contact me off list: la...@starlightsolar.com

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
11871 S Fortuna Road, #210
Yuma, AZ 85367

la...@starlightsolar.com
(928) 342-9103
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