[RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread benn kilburn 
Wrenches,

What is your take on this product from Ilsco?  It appears to be a good
option for bonding module frames and has been suggested by a distributor for
bonding rails as well….  But industry best practice has steered us away from
using aluminum lugs in favour of tin-plated copper lugs.

SGB SOLAR GRND BND 

SGB-4 

The info on the linked page does not state 'rated for outdoor use' but it
does mention "Tested to ASTM B117-09 for operating in a salt spray (fog)
environment"  Would this not imply 'outdoor use'?

Benn

DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
Certificate # 0007S
HAVE A SUNNY DAY


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Brian Mehalic 
I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
burial/outdoor use.

Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132

PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:49 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> What is your take on this product from Ilsco?  It appears to be a good
> option for bonding module frames and has been suggested by a distributor
> for bonding rails as well….  But industry best practice has steered us away
> from using aluminum lugs in favour of tin-plated copper lugs.
>
> SGB SOLAR GRND 
> BND
> SGB-4 
>
> The info on the linked page does not state 'rated for outdoor use' but it
> does mention "Tested to ASTM B117-09 for operating in a salt spray (fog)
> environment"  Would this not imply 'outdoor use'?
>
> Benn
>
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
Grounding rods that are UL467 listed don't necessarily list outdoor rated
as a specification. That is implied I believe.

You probably wouldn't need these lugs for those indoor PV modules. :)

I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs too long to go
back now.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:49 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> What is your take on this product from Ilsco?  It appears to be a good
> option for bonding module frames and has been suggested by a distributor
> for bonding rails as well….  But industry best practice has steered us away
> from using aluminum lugs in favour of tin-plated copper lugs.
>
> SGB SOLAR GRND 
> BND
> SGB-4 
>
> The info on the linked page does not state 'rated for outdoor use' but it
> does mention "Tested to ASTM B117-09 for operating in a salt spray (fog)
> environment"  Would this not imply 'outdoor use'?
>
> Benn
>
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Jay Peltz 
Hi Brian

Isn't another way to go:
Use the AL lugs and AL grounding wire?

Jay
Peltz power 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:

> I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct burial/outdoor 
> use.
> 
> Brian Mehalic 
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
> 
> PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
> .org
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Bill Hoffer 
Jay

Seems to be the preferred method in salt spray environments like the South
Pacific Islands!  Copper and Aluminum don't play well together under those
conditions

Bill Hoffer

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:

> Hi Brian
>
> Isn't another way to go:
> Use the AL lugs and AL grounding wire?
>
> Jay
> Peltz power
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>
> I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
> burial/outdoor use.
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>
> PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
> .org
>
>
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-- 
Bill Hoffer PE
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC
2504 Columbia Ave NW
East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941
suneng...@gmail.com Cell:(509)679-6165
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread David Brearley 
Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will rust in 
an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic John Wiles slides. I'd just 
watch out for that

On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:04 PM, Jay Peltz wrote:

> Hi Brian
> 
> Isn't another way to go:
> Use the AL lugs and AL grounding wire?
> 
> Jay
> Peltz power 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:
> 
>> I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct burial/outdoor 
>> use.
>> 
>> Brian Mehalic 
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
>> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>> 
>> PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
>> Solar Energy International
>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>> .org
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe to
say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to
double-check, of course.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley <
david.brear...@solarprofessional.com> wrote:

> Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will
> rust in an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic John Wiles
> slides. I'd just watch out for that
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>
> I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
> burial/outdoor use.
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>
> PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
> .org
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread David Brearley 
Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks quicker 
and easier and robust.

On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

> Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe to 
> say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to 
> double-check, of course.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley 
>  wrote:
> Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will rust 
> in an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic John Wiles slides. I'd 
> just watch out for that
>> 
>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>> 
>>> I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct 
>>> burial/outdoor use.
>>> 
>>> Brian Mehalic 
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
>>> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>>> 
>>> PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
>>> Solar Energy International
>>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>>> .org
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Gary Willett 
Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and 
Bonding Equipment":

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1

The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:

   _Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems _--- Grounding
   and bonding equipment intended for use in PV systems are
   additionally investigated in combination with the PV module/panel
   (see QIGU) to the applicable requirements for such products.
   Installation instructions provided with the PV system (see QIGU)
   identify the specific grounding and bonding device that has been
   investigated and intended for use with that system.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1


Regards,

Gary Willett, PE

On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks 
quicker and easier and robust.


On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's 
safe to say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always 
good to double-check, of course.


Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley 
> wrote:


Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw
will rust in an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic
John Wiles slides. I'd just watch out for that


On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic
mailto:br...@solarenergy.org>> wrote:


I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
burial/outdoor use.

Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer^(TM) R031508-59
IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132

PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org 
.org




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread William Miller 

Benn:

Good looking lug, looks very useful.  It won't do any good on the Solar 
World Plus series unless they have the version 2.5 frame.  The standard 
frame has no flange!


William Miller


At 12:49 PM 8/27/2012, you wrote:

Wrenches,

What is your take on this product from Ilsco?  It appears to be a good 
option for bonding module frames and has been suggested by a distributor 
for bonding rails as well….  But industry best practice has steered us 
away from using aluminum lugs in favour of tin-plated copper lugs.


SGB 
SOLAR GRND BND

SGB-4
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread benn kilburn 
Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,

However I'm still wonderingŠ..
How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?
Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar lug).
As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the aluminum
lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See hereŠGBL LAY-IN AL/CU
 .

As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module
bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the
module manufacturer, no?
Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the
blessing  of each mod mfgr.
(by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across
inspectors that actually look for this.

Jason, 
you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs too
long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs with
these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use for
the bonding connection from the ?rails?
This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.


Benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
Certificate # 0007S
HAVE A SUNNY DAY

On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:


 
Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and
Bonding Equipment":
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name
=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&
cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
 
 The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
  
> Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems ‹ Grounding and bonding
> equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally investigated in
> combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the applicable requirements
> for such products. Installation instructions provided with the PV system (see
> QIGU) identify the specific grounding and bonding device that has been
> investigated and intended for use with that system.
>  
 http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&na
me=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=107409
8839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
 
 
  
   
 

Regards,
 
 Gary Willett, PE
 
 
 On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
 
 
> Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks quicker
> and easier and robust.
> 
>  
>  
> On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>  
>  
>> Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe to
>> say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to
>> double-check, of course.
>> 
>>  Jason Szumlanski
>> Fafco Solar
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley
>>  wrote:
>>  
>>>  
>>> Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will rust
>>> in an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic John Wiles slides. I'd
>>> just watch out for that
>>>  
  
  
  
  
 
  On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:
  
  
  
>  
> I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
> burial/outdoor use.
>  
> 
>  
>  
> Brian Mehalic
>  NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer R031508-59
>  IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>  
> 
>  
>  
> PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
> Solar Energy International
>  http://www.solarenergy.org 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
  
>  
> .org


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Kirpal Khalsa 
Benn...it looks like that lug has "stainless hardware for corrosion
resistance"  as stated on the brochureThat would be the biggest
consideration as David Brearly mentioned earlier in regards to rust
potential.  Stainless hardware and tin plating is equivalent to the WEEB
lugsTin plating and stainless hardware is as good as anything else
available as far as outdoor ratings are concerned.
I see your point that it is not explicitly stated for outdoor
usehowever being marketed for use with solar panels also seems to imply
rather obviously that it is outdoor rated.in my unofficial opinion.

-- 
Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,
>
> However I'm still wondering…..
> How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?
> Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar
> lug).  As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the
> aluminum lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See here…GBL LAY-IN 
> AL/CU.
>
>
> As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module
> bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the
> module manufacturer, no?
> Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the
> blessing  of each mod mfgr.
> (by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across
> inspectors that actually look for this.
>
> Jason,
> you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs
> too long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs
> with these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use
> for the bonding connection from the ?rails?
> This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.
>
>
> Benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
> On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:
>
>  Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and
> Bonding Equipment":
>
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>
> The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
>
> *Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems *— Grounding and
> bonding equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally
> investigated in combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the
> applicable requirements for such products. Installation instructions
> provided with the PV system (see QIGU) identify the specific grounding and
> bonding device that has been investigated and intended for use with that
> system.
>
>
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>
>
>   Regards,
>
> Gary Willett, PE
>  On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
>
> Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks
> quicker and easier and robust.
>
>  On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe
> to say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to
> double-check, of course.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley <
> david.brear...@solarprofessional.com> wrote:
>
>> Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will
>> rust in an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic John Wiles
>> slides. I'd just watch out for that
>>
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
>> burial/outdoor use.
>>
>>  Brian Mehalic
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
>> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>>
>>  PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
>> Solar Energy International
>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>>
>>  .org
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Exeltech 
When in doubt .. ask the manufacturer.

Dan


--- On Mon, 8/27/12, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:

From: Kirpal Khalsa 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 6:42 PM

Benn...it looks like that lug has "stainless hardware for corrosion 
resistance"  as stated on the brochureThat would be the biggest 
consideration as David Brearly mentioned earlier in regards to rust potential.  
Stainless hardware and tin plating is equivalent to the WEEB lugsTin 
plating and stainless hardware is as good as anything else available as far as 
outdoor ratings are concerned.

I see your point that it is not explicitly stated for outdoor usehowever 
being marketed for use with solar panels also seems to imply rather obviously 
that it is outdoor rated.in my unofficial opinion.  

-- 

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,

However I'm still wondering…..How does one confirm that it is specifically 
approved for outdoor use?  Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 
'marketed' as a solar lug).  As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply 
"outdoor rated" as the aluminum lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See here…GBL 
LAY-IN AL/CU.  

As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module 
bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the module 
manufacturer, no?Which means that any new bonding product on the market must 
have the blessing  of each mod mfgr.  
(by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across 
inspectors that actually look for this.
Jason, you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs 
too long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs with 
these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use for the 
bonding connection from the ?rails?  
This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.

BennDayStar Renewable Energy Inc. www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems CertifiedCertificate # 
0007SHAVE A SUNNY DAY
On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:


  

  
  
Here's the Ilsco
listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and Bonding
Equipment":
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1




The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:

  
  Grounding and Bonding for
Photovoltaic (PV) Systems — Grounding and bonding
  equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally
  investigated in combination with the PV module/panel (see
  QIGU) to the applicable requirements for such products.
  Installation instructions provided with the PV system (see
  QIGU) identify the specific grounding and bonding device that
  has been investigated and intended for use with that system.

  
  
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1






  
  











  Regards,

  

  Gary Willett, PE

  
  On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:


Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the
  redesign. Looks quicker and easier and robust.
  


  On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
  

  Yeah, but this one is marketed as a
solar bonding lug. I think it's safe to say that it
appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to
double-check, of course.


  Jason Szumlanski
  Fafco Solar
  

  
  

  

  On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM,
David Brearley 
wrote:


  Some of the aluminum
lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will
rust in an outdoor environment. That's one of the
classic John Wiles slides. I'd just watch out for
that

Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread benn kilburn 
Kirpal.

The Ilsco lug GBL-4 also comes with a stainless steel set-screwŠ as stated
hereŠ.GBL LAY-IN AL/CU

if that is all it takes to use the AL lug outdoors (stainless steel
set-screw), then why have we been steered towards the 'direct burial rated'
tin-plated copper lug instead of an AL lug with SS set-screw?

I'm not trying to make a case to not use the SGB lug, I like it and would
like to keep some in stock, as they seem pretty useful, I just want to have
my bases covered if/when an inspector questions me on them being approved
for the application.

Dan,
Agreed!  Been trying to get an answer from Ilsco, just tracking down the
right person with the answers.

Cheers,
benn

DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
Certificate # 0007S
HAVE A SUNNY DAY

On 27/08/12 5:42 PM, "Kirpal Khalsa"  wrote:

Benn...it looks like that lug has "stainless hardware for corrosion
resistance"  as stated on the brochureThat would be the biggest
consideration as David Brearly mentioned earlier in regards to rust
potential.  Stainless hardware and tin plating is equivalent to the WEEB
lugsTin plating and stainless hardware is as good as anything else
available as far as outdoor ratings are concerned.
I see your point that it is not explicitly stated for outdoor usehowever
being marketed for use with solar panels also seems to imply rather
obviously that it is outdoor rated.in my unofficial opinion.

-- 
Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer



On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,
> 
> However I'm still wonderingŠ..
> How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?
> Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar lug).
> As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the aluminum lug
> "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See hereŠGBL LAY-IN AL/CU
>  fhjhj=nY1wgyVO%2fE%2bFsQNfsmn%2f4OZ3BP5vHo5NcMahtvvHLIc%3d> .
> 
> As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module
> bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the module
> manufacturer, no?
> Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the blessing
> of each mod mfgr.
> (by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across
> inspectors that actually look for this.
> 
> Jason, 
> you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs too
> long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs with
> these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use for the
> bonding connection from the ?rails?
> This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.
> 
> 
> Benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> www.daystarsolar.ca    *  Ph: 780-906-7807
> 
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
> 
> On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:
> 
> 
>  
> Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and Bonding
> Equipment":
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=K
> DER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgi
> d=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>  
>  The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
>   
>> Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems ‹ Grounding and bonding
>> equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally investigated in
>> combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the applicable
>> requirements for such products. Installation instructions provided with the
>> PV system (see QIGU) identify the specific grounding and bonding device that
>> has been investigated and intended for use with that system.
>>  
>  
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=
> KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&
> cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>  
>  
>   
>
>  
> 
> Regards,
>  
>  Gary Willett, PE
>  
>  
>  On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
>  
>  
>> Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks
>> quicker and easier and robust.
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>  
>>  
>>> Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe to
>>> say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to
>>> double-check, of course.
>>> 
>>>  Jason Szumlanski
>>> Fafco Solar
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Brian Mehalic 
I think the tin plating is to minimize/eliminate galvanic corrosion. Tim plated 
aluminum - now that sounds smart!

Typos courtesy of my iPhone. 

On Aug 27, 2012, at 8:52 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

> Kirpal.
> 
> The Ilsco lug GBL-4 also comes with a stainless steel set-screw… as stated 
> here….GBL LAY-IN AL/CU 
> if that is all it takes to use the AL lug outdoors (stainless steel 
> set-screw), then why have we been steered towards the 'direct burial rated' 
> tin-plated copper lug instead of an AL lug with SS set-screw?  
> 
> I'm not trying to make a case to not use the SGB lug, I like it and would 
> like to keep some in stock, as they seem pretty useful, I just want to have 
> my bases covered if/when an inspector questions me on them being approved for 
> the application.
> 
> Dan,
> Agreed!  Been trying to get an answer from Ilsco, just tracking down the 
> right person with the answers.
> 
> Cheers,
> benn
> 
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
> 
> On 27/08/12 5:42 PM, "Kirpal Khalsa"  wrote:
> 
> Benn...it looks like that lug has "stainless hardware for corrosion 
> resistance"  as stated on the brochureThat would be the biggest 
> consideration as David Brearly mentioned earlier in regards to rust 
> potential.  Stainless hardware and tin plating is equivalent to the WEEB 
> lugsTin plating and stainless hardware is as good as anything else 
> available as far as outdoor ratings are concerned.
> I see your point that it is not explicitly stated for outdoor usehowever 
> being marketed for use with solar panels also seems to imply rather obviously 
> that it is outdoor rated.in my unofficial opinion.  
> 
> -- 
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,
> 
> However I'm still wondering…..
> How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?  
> Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar lug).  
> As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the aluminum 
> lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See here…GBL LAY-IN AL/CU.  
> 
> As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module 
> bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the 
> module manufacturer, no?
> Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the blessing 
>  of each mod mfgr.  
> (by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across 
> inspectors that actually look for this.
> 
> Jason, 
> you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs too 
> long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs with 
> these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use for 
> the bonding connection from the ?rails?  
> This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.
> 
> 
> Benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
> 
> On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:
> 
> Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and 
> Bonding Equipment":
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
> 
> The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
> Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems — Grounding and bonding 
> equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally investigated in 
> combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the applicable 
> requirements for such products. Installation instructions provided with the 
> PV system (see QIGU) identify the specific grounding and bonding device that 
> has been investigated and intended for use with that system.
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gary Willett, PE
> On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
>> Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks 
>> quicker and easier and robust.
>> 
>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe to 
>>> say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to 
>>> double-check, of course.
>>> 
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Fafco Solar
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Some of the aluminum lugs are indo

Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread Bill Brooks 
Benn,

 

This product appears to be significantly superior to the old-school ILSCO
tin-plated copper lugs. While those lugs may have been the best thing going
10 years ago, there have been many improvements. This looks like one of
them. I would argue with the statement that tin-plated copper is industry
"best practice". This tin-plated aluminum product is more likely to hold up
in direct contact to a PV module. We have seen the old ILSCO tin-copper lug
deteriorate over time in more corrosive environments. Also, if you use bare
aluminum equipment grounding conductors, all dissimilar metal issues would
be resolved -even though this lug is clearly listed for copper or aluminum
conductors.

 

UL467 is the Grounding and Bonding equipment standard and does not have much
in the way of environmental tests for outdoor use. That is why ILSCO is
marketing that they have passed the additional ASTM B117-09 salt fog test
since UL467 does not test outdoor conditions all that well. We are
incorporating similar test requirements into the UL1703 (PV module) and
UL2703 (PV mounting systems) standards. 

 

The only catch with this product is that if an AHJ insists that the PV
module be listed with this device, very few, if any module manufacturers
will have evaluated this device with their modules. As we change the UL1703
standard, it will be much simpler and cheaper for products like this to be
evaluated for application on PV modules. If an AHJ accepts this product, I
would definitely use it in place of the old ILSCO lay-in tin-copper lug.

 

Bill.

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Miller
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 1:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

 

Benn:

Good looking lug, looks very useful.  It won't do any good on the Solar
World Plus series unless they have the version 2.5 frame.  The standard
frame has no flange!

William Miller


At 12:49 PM 8/27/2012, you wrote:



Wrenches,

What is your take on this product from Ilsco?  It appears to be a good
option for bonding module frames and has been suggested by a distributor for
bonding rails as well..  But industry best practice has steered us away from
using aluminum lugs in favour of tin-plated copper lugs.

SGB SOLAR GRND BND
<http://ilsco.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?kfjkff=0kMVXKLlROO4l5EwarhvPw%3d%3d&fj
jfhjhj=nFBt62Axh6IhPmrswva0nAkQKTu46vPAzpM1xJdnS3Y%3d> 
SGB-4 <http://ilsco.com/TechnicalDrawing/G1040.pdf> 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-27 Thread David Brearley 
Yep. Definitely lower cost that tin-plated copper. Designed with PV frame 
grounding in mind. Lots to like


On Aug 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:

> I think the tin plating is to minimize/eliminate galvanic corrosion. Tim 
> plated aluminum - now that sounds smart!
> 
> Typos courtesy of my iPhone. 
> 
> On Aug 27, 2012, at 8:52 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:
> 
>> Kirpal.
>> 
>> The Ilsco lug GBL-4 also comes with a stainless steel set-screw… as stated 
>> here….GBL LAY-IN AL/CU 
>> if that is all it takes to use the AL lug outdoors (stainless steel 
>> set-screw), then why have we been steered towards the 'direct burial rated' 
>> tin-plated copper lug instead of an AL lug with SS set-screw?  
>> 
>> I'm not trying to make a case to not use the SGB lug, I like it and would 
>> like to keep some in stock, as they seem pretty useful, I just want to have 
>> my bases covered if/when an inspector questions me on them being approved 
>> for the application.
>> 
>> Dan,
>> Agreed!  Been trying to get an answer from Ilsco, just tracking down the 
>> right person with the answers.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> benn
>> 
>> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
>> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
>> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
>> Certificate # 0007S
>> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>> 
>> On 27/08/12 5:42 PM, "Kirpal Khalsa"  wrote:
>> 
>> Benn...it looks like that lug has "stainless hardware for corrosion 
>> resistance"  as stated on the brochureThat would be the biggest 
>> consideration as David Brearly mentioned earlier in regards to rust 
>> potential.  Stainless hardware and tin plating is equivalent to the WEEB 
>> lugsTin plating and stainless hardware is as good as anything else 
>> available as far as outdoor ratings are concerned.
>> I see your point that it is not explicitly stated for outdoor usehowever 
>> being marketed for use with solar panels also seems to imply rather 
>> obviously that it is outdoor rated.in my unofficial opinion.  
>> 
>> -- 
>> Sunny Regards,
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:
>> Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,
>> 
>> However I'm still wondering…..
>> How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?  
>> Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar lug). 
>>  As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the aluminum 
>> lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See here…GBL LAY-IN AL/CU.  
>> 
>> As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module 
>> bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the 
>> module manufacturer, no?
>> Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the 
>> blessing  of each mod mfgr.  
>> (by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across 
>> inspectors that actually look for this.
>> 
>> Jason, 
>> you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs too 
>> long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs with 
>> these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use for 
>> the bonding connection from the ?rails? 
>> This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Benn
>> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
>> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
>> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
>> Certificate # 0007S
>> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>> 
>> On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:
>> 
>> Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and 
>> Bonding Equipment":
>> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>> 
>> The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
>> Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems — Grounding and bonding 
>> equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally investigated in 
>> combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the applicable 
>> requirements for such products. Installation instructions provided with the 
>> PV system (see QIGU) identify the specific grounding and bonding device that 
>> has been investigated and intended for use with that system.
>> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gary Willett, PE
>> On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
>>> Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks 
>>> quicker and easier and robust.
>>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>> 
 Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I thi

Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-08-28 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
The WEEB-LUG is great for rail bonding:
http://www.we-llc.com/grounding-lug.html

It is UL467, marked Outdoor Use, made of tin-plated copper. The only
disadvantage is that the stainless steel clip must be sacrificed if the lug
is moved - a disadvantage of all WEEB grounding products.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar


On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,
>
> However I'm still wondering…..
> How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?
> Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar
> lug).  As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the
> aluminum lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See here…GBL LAY-IN 
> AL/CU.
>
>
> As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module
> bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the
> module manufacturer, no?
> Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the
> blessing  of each mod mfgr.
> (by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across
> inspectors that actually look for this.
>
> Jason,
> you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs
> too long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs
> with these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use
> for the bonding connection from the ?rails?
> This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.
>
>
> Benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
> Certificate # 0007S
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
> On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:
>
>  Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and
> Bonding Equipment":
>
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>
> The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
>
> *Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems *— Grounding and
> bonding equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally
> investigated in combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the
> applicable requirements for such products. Installation instructions
> provided with the PV system (see QIGU) identify the specific grounding and
> bonding device that has been investigated and intended for use with that
> system.
>
>
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>
>
>   Regards,
>
> Gary Willett, PE
>  On 8/27/2012 3:20 PM, David Brearley wrote:
>
> Yes, sorry. I wasn't speaking of this lug...I like the redesign. Looks
> quicker and easier and robust.
>
>  On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> Yeah, but this one is marketed as a solar bonding lug. I think it's safe
> to say that it appropriately rated for outdoor use. It's always good to
> double-check, of course.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Brearley <
> david.brear...@solarprofessional.com> wrote:
>
>> Some of the aluminum lugs are indoor-rated. They have a set screw will
>> rust in an outdoor environment. That's one of the classic John Wiles
>> slides. I'd just watch out for that
>>
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Brian Mehalic 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I believe the UL467 listing means that it is rated for direct
>> burial/outdoor use.
>>
>>  Brian Mehalic
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59
>> IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
>>
>>  PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
>> Solar Energy International
>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>>
>>  .org
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco SGB bonding lug

2012-09-07 Thread Bob-O Schultze 
A downside might be that the SS screw will corrode into the AL lug and won't 
ever unscrew after 9 months or so in the weather unless you put some sort of 
anti-seize on it. This tip also applies to S5! clips. I got it from the S5! 
tech guy.
Bob-o

On Aug 27, 2012, at 7:37 PM, David Brearley wrote:

Yep. Definitely lower cost that tin-plated copper. Designed with PV frame 
grounding in mind. Lots to like


On Aug 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:

> I think the tin plating is to minimize/eliminate galvanic corrosion. Tim 
> plated aluminum - now that sounds smart!
> 
> Typos courtesy of my iPhone. 
> 
> On Aug 27, 2012, at 8:52 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:
> 
>> Kirpal.
>> 
>> The Ilsco lug GBL-4 also comes with a stainless steel set-screw… as stated 
>> here….GBL LAY-IN AL/CU 
>> if that is all it takes to use the AL lug outdoors (stainless steel 
>> set-screw), then why have we been steered towards the 'direct burial rated' 
>> tin-plated copper lug instead of an AL lug with SS set-screw?  
>> 
>> I'm not trying to make a case to not use the SGB lug, I like it and would 
>> like to keep some in stock, as they seem pretty useful, I just want to have 
>> my bases covered if/when an inspector questions me on them being approved 
>> for the application.
>> 
>> Dan,
>> Agreed!  Been trying to get an answer from Ilsco, just tracking down the 
>> right person with the answers.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> benn
>> 
>> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
>> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
>> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
>> Certificate # 0007S
>> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>> 
>> On 27/08/12 5:42 PM, "Kirpal Khalsa"  wrote:
>> 
>> Benn...it looks like that lug has "stainless hardware for corrosion 
>> resistance"  as stated on the brochureThat would be the biggest 
>> consideration as David Brearly mentioned earlier in regards to rust 
>> potential.  Stainless hardware and tin plating is equivalent to the WEEB 
>> lugsTin plating and stainless hardware is as good as anything else 
>> available as far as outdoor ratings are concerned.
>> I see your point that it is not explicitly stated for outdoor usehowever 
>> being marketed for use with solar panels also seems to imply rather 
>> obviously that it is outdoor rated.in my unofficial opinion.  
>> 
>> -- 
>> Sunny Regards,
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:
>> Thanks for the feedback Wrenches, lots of interesting comments,
>> 
>> However I'm still wondering…..
>> How does one confirm that it is specifically approved for outdoor use?  
>> Other than assuming it is implied (because it is 'marketed' as a solar lug). 
>>  As far as I can tell UL 467 does not imply "outdoor rated" as the aluminum 
>> lug "GBL-4" is also UL467 listed.  See here…GBL LAY-IN AL/CU.  
>> 
>> As well, and as Gary pointed out with his second link, for a module 
>> bonding/grounding method to be acceptable, it must be recognized by the 
>> module manufacturer, no?
>> Which means that any new bonding product on the market must have the 
>> blessing  of each mod mfgr.  
>> (by way of letter or mention in its install manual).  I have come across 
>> inspectors that actually look for this.
>> 
>> Jason, 
>> you wrote "I like the looks of that lug. However, I've been using WEEBs too 
>> long to go back now." I agree, and i'm not looking to replace weebs with 
>> these, but these certainly seem to have a place in the What do you use for 
>> the bonding connection from the ?rails?  
>> This SGB lug was suggested for this purpose as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Benn
>> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
>> www.daystarsolar.ca  *  Ph: 780-906-7807 
>> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
>> Certificate # 0007S
>> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>> 
>> On 27/08/12 2:35 PM, "Gary Willett"  wrote:
>> 
>> Here's the Ilsco listing from UL, where it's classed as "Grounding and 
>> Bonding Equipment":
>> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=KDER.E34440&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074099002&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>> 
>> The GuideInfo for Grounding & Bonding Equipment lists:
>> Grounding and Bonding for Photovoltaic (PV) Systems — Grounding and bonding 
>> equipment intended for use in PV systems are additionally investigated in 
>> combination with the PV module/panel (see QIGU) to the applicable 
>> requirements for such products. Installation instructions provided with the 
>> PV system (see QIGU) identify the specific grounding and bonding device that 
>> has been investigated and intended for use with that system.
>> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=KDER.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Grounding+and+Bonding+Equipment&objid=1074098839&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gary