Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread James Rudolph 
Maybe the inspector just didn't like the look of it for some reason?
Sometimes it's just easiest to ask the inspector what he would like to see.

If he didnt give the code reference it may be one of these items below:

* 2020 NEC*
Article 110.12 Workmanship ( the catch all of many issues for some
inspectors)
Article 300.2(B) Conductor & ground needs to be in the same raceway ( this
might be the one).
Article 352.12(C) Subject to physical damage (not likely?)
Article 352.28 Trimming and removing all rough edges ( maybe?)
Article 352.46 Bushings installed where conduit enters
box/enclosure-provided to protect conductors ( maybe?)


Please let us know how this one ends up.

Happy Trails & Good Luck.


James B. Rudolph


Independent Energy

C-39784 ES #10816

NABCEP Certified PV Installer since 2009  #091209-155

C. 808.313.9701













On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 2:25 PM Jay  wrote:

> I’m not the code expert.
> But here is a company making parts used for code installations.
>
> https://www.cabproducts.com/solar/
>
> Maybe one of theirs will work instead of the plastic chase.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Mar 22, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Without question the wires are either supported via a rail or strut
> between the rows of modules or trenched underground if a ground mount. I
> have seen fly over and it will be a point of failure by someone that should
> be there but is and if you damage one JB/diode pack on the back of a module
> you will pay more than the trench would cost.
> Jerry
> NABCEP PV Inspector
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:43 PM Dave Tedeyan 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between
>> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was
>> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by
>> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two
>> separate arrays.
>>
>> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC
>> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past
>> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
>> 
>> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
>> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
>> 
>> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as
>> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all
>> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is
>> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap
>> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed
>> for that gap, there would have been no problem.
>>
>> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
>> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> [image: Logo] 
>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>> p: he | him | his
>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
>> c: (607) 288-2898
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Jay 
I’m not the code expert. 
But here is a company making parts used for code installations. 

https://www.cabproducts.com/solar/

Maybe one of theirs will work instead of the plastic chase. 

Jay



> On Mar 22, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Without question the wires are either supported via a rail or strut between 
> the rows of modules or trenched underground if a ground mount. I have seen 
> fly over and it will be a point of failure by someone that should be there 
> but is and if you damage one JB/diode pack on the back of a module you will 
> pay more than the trench would cost.
> Jerry 
> NABCEP PV Inspector
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:43 PM Dave Tedeyan  wrote:
>> Hi All, 
>> 
>> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two 
>> ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too 
>> large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, 
>> with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate 
>> arrays. 
>> 
>> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for 
>> protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC 
>> on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
>> 
>> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be 
>> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
>> 
>> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the 
>> wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is, do 
>> you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not okay? 
>> I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a ground 
>> mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for that 
>> gap, there would have been no problem.
>> 
>> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
>> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
>> Cheers, 
>> Dave
>> 
>> -- 
>>  
>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>> p: he | him | his
>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>> w: www.sungineersolar.com
>> c: (607) 288-2898
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Jerry Shafer 
Without question the wires are either supported via a rail or strut between
the rows of modules or trenched underground if a ground mount. I have seen
fly over and it will be a point of failure by someone that should be there
but is and if you damage one JB/diode pack on the back of a module you will
pay more than the trench would cost.
Jerry
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:43 PM Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between
> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was
> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by
> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two
> separate arrays.
>
> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC
> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past
> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
> 
> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
> 
> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as
> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all
> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is
> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap
> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed
> for that gap, there would have been no problem.
>
> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread August Goers 
This IAEI Magazine article may address this issue a bit:

https://iaeimagazine.org/features/electrical-systems-are-you-protected/

Your inspector might be concerned with the rough edges portion of the
article:

[image: image.png]
You may be able to argue with the inspector that you have simply used the
PVC as a sleeve, and properly smoothed off the edges to avoid conductor
abrasion. Otherwise, typically you would need to install a connector and
plastic pull bushing, strain relief, or box of some sort.

Best,

August
Luminalt


On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:32 PM Glenn Burt  wrote:

> There is a code citation that prohibits the use of conduit without an end
> or fitting of some kind.
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Darryl Thayer
> *Date: *Tue, Mar 22, 2022 5:48 PM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *
> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays
>
> Once in my life i had an inspector concerned about strain relief, i used a
> GBC on each end of the pipe, it surficed. I think i could have used a bell
> mouth connector.
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 3:43 PM Dave Tedeyan 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between
>> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was
>> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by
>> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two
>> separate arrays.
>>
>> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC
>> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past
>> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
>> 
>> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
>> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
>> 
>> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as
>> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all
>> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is
>> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap
>> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed
>> for that gap, there would have been no problem.
>>
>> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
>> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>> p: he | him | his
>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>> w: <http://www.sungineersolar.com/> www.sungineersolar.com
>> <http://%C2%A0www.sungineersolar.com>
>> c: (607) 288-2898
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>> other:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread William Miller 
Dave:



If there is a child-proof fence around this installation, please disregard
everything I write below.  I am curious:  Is there such a fence?



Question:  Is that plastic snow fence attached to the back of the racking
with Tek screws?



You are lucky I am not your inspector.  The smallest issue I see is the
flimsy wire bridge.  I don’t think any part of this looks code complaint
regarding wire protection.  The guarding is supposed to keep little fingers
away from the conductors, insulated or not.  You would not cover a gutter
or pull-box with this snow fence material would you?  It is not suitable as
conductor covering material.



Remember the code is designed to protect people of all ages from harm.
Kids view ground mount arrays as jungle gyms.  The first kid that grabs
onto the snow fence attached with Tek screws and no fender washers is going
to rip the plastic right off of that array.



While swinging around they could easily pull hard on a wire, pulling it out
of a crimp connector or across a sharp edge, exposing some of the energized
conductor.  The possibility of death from this installation is
significantly greater than zero.



I see a lot of ground mount arrays that are kind of guarded but not
really.  We should be doing better with our craftsmanship.  We have a
responsibility.



If you want some pointers on how to fix this, I’d be happy to help.
Contact me off-line.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 1:43 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays



Hi All,



I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two
ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too
large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side,
with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate
arrays.



We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for
protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the
PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:



Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.



They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the
wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is,
do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not
okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a
ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for
that gap, there would have been no problem.



I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.

I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!

Cheers,

Dave



-- 

[image: Logo] 


*Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar*

*p: *he | him | his
*a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
*w:* www.sungineersolar.com 
*c:* (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Glenn Burt 
There is a code citation that prohibits the use of conduit without an end or 
fitting of some kind.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos 
and spelling errors.-- Original message--From: Darryl ThayerDate: Tue, 
Mar 22, 2022 5:48 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between 
arraysOnce in my life i had an inspector concerned about strain relief, i used 
a GBC on each end of the pipe, it surficed. I think i could have used a bell 
mouth connector.  On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 3:43 PM Dave Tedeyan 
 wrote:Hi All, I have an inspector giving me a hard 
time about wire management between two ground mounted arrays. The racking is 
Unirac GFT, and the system was too large to have one continuous array. So there 
are two arrays, side by side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules 
from the two separate arrays. We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through 
a short section of PVC for protection, and the wires are secured to the
 rails about a foot past the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the 
following:Array conductors found disconnected or
improperly connected, which may be
causing portions of the array to be
inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.They say that they are citing this 
because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of 
conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says 
that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others 
do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the 
conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem.I attached a 
couple of photos to help with my written description.I appreciate the knowledge 
of this hive mind!Cheers, Dave-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he 
| him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: 
www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Chris Worcester 
I would slide 3" of 3/4" 600 volt heat shrink over the end of a stainless steel 
hose clamp and secure the wire to the rail where it comes out of the conduit at 
each end. Chris Worcester chris@solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent from my 
Samsung Galaxy s9.
 Original message From: Dave Tedeyan  
Date: 3/22/22  1:44 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches 
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays 
Hi All, I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between 
two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too 
large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, with 
only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate arrays. We 
jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for 
protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC on 
either end. The inspector is citing the following:Array conductors found 
disconnected or
improperly connected, which may be
causing portions of the array to be
inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.They say that they are citing this 
because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of 
conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says 
that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others 
do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the 
conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem.I attached a 
couple of photos to help with my written description.I appreciate the knowledge 
of this hive mind!Cheers, Dave-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he 
| him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: 
www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Darryl Thayer 
Once in my life i had an inspector concerned about strain relief, i used a
GBC on each end of the pipe, it surficed. I think i could have used a bell
mouth connector.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 3:43 PM Dave Tedeyan  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between
> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was
> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by
> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two
> separate arrays.
>
> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC
> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past
> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
> 
> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
> 
> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as
> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all
> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is
> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap
> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed
> for that gap, there would have been no problem.
>
> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Chris Sparadeo 
Hi Dave,

I typically use the same method you do for running conductors between two
non-continuous arrays. I have never had an issue with either AHJ blowback
or actual compromised conductors due to a lack of strain relief.

The only code reference I can think of is 300.4 regarding protection
against physical damage, but you have that covered with the use of a
secured conduit.

To appease the AHJ, you could add some pvc female adapters and gland seals.

Best,

Chris

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:43 PM Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between
> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was
> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by
> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two
> separate arrays.
>
> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC
> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past
> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
> 
> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
> 
> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as
> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all
> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is
> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap
> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed
> for that gap, there would have been no problem.
>
> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd.
> 
>
> |
>  Ithaca,
> NY 14850
> 
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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> --
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays

2022-03-22 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
In Florida, the AHJ is required to cite the section of code when rejecting
work. I always ask for that if rejected. I'm not sure how things work in NY.

You might start with 690.31(C)(1) that allows PV wire to be exposed within
the PV array. The array boundary is defined elsewhere as within 1 ft of the
array in all directions, although that pertains to rapid shutdown
specifically.

You're right - you might just remove the PVC and ask them how it doesn't
comply then, considering you only have to support it at 4.5 ft intervals.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group




On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:43 PM Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between
> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was
> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by
> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two
> separate arrays.
>
> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC
> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past
> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:
> 
> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be
> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.
> 
> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as
> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all
> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is
> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap
> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed
> for that gap, there would have been no problem.
>
> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.
> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
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