Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Jay]

Can I ask a question about which OEM’s folks want to recommend in terms of 
warranty, repair, tech support?  

These horror stories are really disappointing. 

Thx

Jay




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Drake]

Vic,

It does seem like tech support everywhere is on 
the decline. Especially with more complicated 
equipment, it is needed more than ever.


Drake


At 02:19 PM 8/18/2020, Vic Guillot wrote:

Drake,
How long does it take to get Hasan on the phone, 
when you're onsite doing a service call?
How many staff other than Hasan are trained to 
help installers  with their battery inverters, 
who are onsite doing service calls?
Do you happen to know if Hasan and crew have 
figured out a way for installers to change 
storage profiles without returning to the site?

Some sites are an hour drive away which means 2 hours of drive time.

[]

Vic Guillot
Sol Sierra, Inc.
209.795.3554 office
209.768.3560 mobile/text



On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:23 AM 
<drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> 
wrote:

I wrote to Hassan Taylor at SMA. He says they are still there.
Â

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:36 AM Hasan Taylor 
<hasan.tay...@sma-america.com> wrote:


All I can say is rumors of the Hybrid Energy 
Team’s demise were greatly exaggerated. 
We’re still here, and I have no idea where this person got their info from.


Thank you,

Hasan Taylor


SMA America, LLC

Regional Senior Expert, Hybrid Energy Systems

Tel: (877) 697-6283 (option 4 for Hybrid)

www.SMA-America.com


On 2020-08-16 13:55, Ray wrote:


I haven't used that combo, but I spent quite a 
bit of time researching, and SMA only warrants 
their equipment when used with batteries from 
their 'recommended' list.  LG Chem is not on 
the list, BYD is.  Personally I would be 
picking an inverter that has better tech 
support (SMA fired all their off grid team) and 
is better suited for the design.  The only 
reason I could think to use the Sunny Island 
would be if it was a 208, 3 phase setup.


Â

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Vic Guillot]

Drake,
How long does it take to get Hasan on the phone, when you're onsite doing a
service call?
How many staff other than Hasan are trained to help installers  with their
battery inverters, who are onsite doing service calls?
Do you happen to know if Hasan and crew have figured out a way for
installers to change storage profiles without returning to the site?
Some sites are an hour drive away which means 2 hours of drive time.

Vic Guillot
Sol Sierra, Inc.
209.795.3554 office
209.768.3560 mobile/text



On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:23 AM 
wrote:

> I wrote to Hassan Taylor at SMA. He says they are still there.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:36 AM Hasan Taylor <
> hasan.tay...@sma-america.com> wrote:
>
> All I can say is rumors of the Hybrid Energy Team’s demise were greatly
> exaggerated. We’re still here, and I have no idea where this person got
> their info from.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Hasan Taylor
>
>
> SMA America, LLC
>
> Regional Senior Expert, Hybrid Energy Systems
>
> Tel: (877) 697-6283 (option 4 for Hybrid)
>
> www.SMA-America.com
> 
>
>
> On 2020-08-16 13:55, Ray wrote:
>
> I haven't used that combo, but I spent quite a bit of time researching,
> and SMA only warrants their equipment when used with batteries from their
> 'recommended' list.  LG Chem is not on the list, BYD is.  Personally I
> would be picking an inverter that has better tech support (*SMA fired all
> their off grid team*) and is better suited for the design.  The only
> reason I could think to use the Sunny Island would be if it was a 208, 3
> phase setup.
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[drake . chamberlin]

I wrote to Hassan Taylor at SMA. He says they are still there.

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:36 AM Hasan Taylor
 wrote: 


All I can say is rumors of the Hybrid Energy Team's demise were greatly
exaggerated. We're still here, and I have no idea where this person got
their info from. 

Thank you, 

Hasan Taylor 

SMA America, LLC 

Regional Senior Expert, Hybrid Energy Systems 

Tel: (877) 697-6283 (option 4 for Hybrid) 

www.SMA-America.com [1] 


On 2020-08-16 13:55, Ray wrote:


I haven't used that combo, but I spent quite a bit of time researching, and SMA 
only warrants their equipment when used with batteries from their 'recommended' 
list.  LG Chem is not on the list, BYD is.  Personally I would be picking an 
inverter that has better tech support (SMA fired all their off grid team) and 
is better suited for the design.  The only reason I could think to use the 
Sunny Island would be if it was a 208, 3 phase setup.



Links:
--
[1]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Vic Guillot]

Hey Dave,
Thanks for your input. The issue at stake here is that one or more large
solar supply companies misrepresented the facts on this combination of
inverter gear and battery. They did start the year out with LG Chem being
the first battery on the compatibility list. After months of complaints
they quickly pivoted somewhere around June. I know there are other
installers out there, we hope to hear from them too.
Vic Guillot

Vic Guillot
Sol Sierra, Inc.
209.795.3554 office
209.768.3560 mobile/text



On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 7:10 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> As others have said, it is an LG problem. I did the field test here for
> Schneider and LG on the 48vdc battery. I got to look at the 400v resu 10H
> and it was worse than the 48v resu 10. At that time the 10h only worked
> with Solar Edge the Israeli company.
>
> The bad part, to me, was that LG never cared to finish the test here and
> do a failure analysis on what killed their resu 10. The other one still
> works but I cut the charge current way below spec, and use it only with a
> CSW and not the XW it was meant for.
>
> In Australia they use the resu 10 with Victron, but it has had alot of
> issues and never has been listed for offgrid. LG needs to re-engineer the
> whole ESS line. They are NMC based and that too is an issue that LFP has
> solved!
>
> My advice to the problem here, is to get the supplier to put pressure on
> both SMA and LG for a refund or credit. What a nightmare for you!  Good
> Luck!
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 17:06:49 -0500, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:
>
> I would like to share my experience.
>
>
>
> It does not in any way provide the AC Coupling experience that is
> represented. The LG Chem should never been on any “compatible” list.
> Perhaps they have removed it but it was clearly there (listed in front of
> BYD, even) and we used that representation to install components we have
> trusted in separate designs in two SMA/LG/SMA-Automatic Backup Unit systems.
>
>
>
> Now I have two systems in the field where the AC Coupling is completely
> useless. Because the SMA SBS has no way to continue operations when the LG
> Chem battery switches from discharge to charge and vice versa, it causes
> the SMA to drop off momentarily and that of course takes away the
> conditions under which the AC Coupled PV inverter operates.
>
>
>
> In backup mode (grid off) conditions, it retards the PV inverter output so
> much so that it minimizes the switching I describe above, but once a system
> load is put on, the system momentarily switches off and the SBS re-boot /
> PV inverter reconnect cycle starts again. Not elegant. Not in the least bit
> what we expect from an AC-Coupled design, especially one with an Automatic
> Backup Unit integration that is there for the sole purpose of aggregating
> the combined output of the SBS and PV inverter to provide large backed up
> load capability.
>
>
>
> SMA advises me that I need to put BYD into the two systems. Sure…but I
> bought LG based on what you represented in documentation so I really want
> to see SMA reimburse me for two BYD batteries before I spend money on legal
> help to join a class-action suit regarding the misrepresentation.
>
>
>
> I expect more from SMA.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

As others have said, it is an LG problem. I did the field test here for
Schneider and LG on the 48vdc battery. I got to look at the 400v resu 10H
and it was worse than the 48v resu 10. At that time the 10h only worked
with Solar Edge the Israeli company.  

The bad part, to me, was that LG
never cared to finish the test here and do a failure analysis on what
killed their resu 10. The other one still works but I cut the charge
current way below spec, and use it only with a CSW and not the XW it was
meant for. 

In Australia they use the resu 10 with Victron, but it has had
alot of issues and never has been listed for offgrid. LG needs to
re-engineer the whole ESS line. They are NMC based and that too is an issue
that LFP has solved! 

My advice to the problem here, is to get the
supplier to put pressure on both SMA and LG for a refund or credit. What a
nightmare for you! Good Luck!  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where
powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 17:06:49
-0500, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:   

I would like to share my
experience. 

It does not in any way provide the AC Coupling experience
that is represented. The LG Chem should never been on any "compatible"
list. Perhaps they have removed it but it was clearly there (listed in
front of BYD, even) and we used that representation to install components
we have trusted in separate designs in two SMA/LG/SMA-Automatic Backup Unit
systems. 

Now I have two systems in the field where the AC Coupling is
completely useless. Because the SMA SBS has no way to continue operations
when the LG Chem battery switches from discharge to charge and vice versa,
it causes the SMA to drop off momentarily and that of course takes away the
conditions under which the AC Coupled PV inverter operates. 

In backup
mode (grid off) conditions, it retards the PV inverter output so much so
that it minimizes the switching I describe above, but once a system load is
put on, the system momentarily switches off and the SBS re-boot / PV
inverter reconnect cycle starts again. Not elegant. Not in the least bit
what we expect from an AC-Coupled design, especially one with an Automatic
Backup Unit integration that is there for the sole purpose of aggregating
the combined output of the SBS and PV inverter to provide large backed up
load capability. 

SMA advises me that I need to put BYD into the two
systems. Sure…but I bought LG based on what you represented in
documentation so I really want to see SMA reimburse me for two BYD
batteries before I spend money on legal help to join a class-action suit
regarding the misrepresentation. 

I expect more from SMA. 

  


Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2]
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
This is interesting, first nothing comes up with a "class action suit" l
personally researched the sma and battery compatibility, we sell solaredge
and LG all the time and in all my conversations l never was told or read
about the compatibility so l can only assume it was a early first draft. It
sounds more like LG is the issue not SMA with the switching issue
andsoftware may be the actual solution. But that's just me talking.
Jerry
NABCEP PV inspector

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:17 PM  wrote:

> I would like to share my experience.
>
>
>
> It does not in any way provide the AC Coupling experience that is
> represented. The LG Chem should never been on any “compatible” list.
> Perhaps they have removed it but it was clearly there (listed in front of
> BYD, even) and we used that representation to install components we have
> trusted in separate designs in two SMA/LG/SMA-Automatic Backup Unit systems.
>
>
>
> Now I have two systems in the field where the AC Coupling is completely
> useless. Because the SMA SBS has no way to continue operations when the LG
> Chem battery switches from discharge to charge and vice versa, it causes
> the SMA to drop off momentarily and that of course takes away the
> conditions under which the AC Coupled PV inverter operates.
>
>
>
> In backup mode (grid off) conditions, it retards the PV inverter output so
> much so that it minimizes the switching I describe above, but once a system
> load is put on, the system momentarily switches off and the SBS re-boot /
> PV inverter reconnect cycle starts again. Not elegant. Not in the least bit
> what we expect from an AC-Coupled design, especially one with an Automatic
> Backup Unit integration that is there for the sole purpose of aggregating
> the combined output of the SBS and PV inverter to provide large backed up
> load capability.
>
>
>
> SMA advises me that I need to put BYD into the two systems. Sure…but I
> bought LG based on what you represented in documentation so I really want
> to see SMA reimburse me for two BYD batteries before I spend money on legal
> help to join a class-action suit regarding the misrepresentation.
>
>
>
> I expect more from SMA.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[scot.arey]

I would like to share my experience.

 

It does not in any way provide the AC Coupling experience that is
represented. The LG Chem should never been on any "compatible" list. Perhaps
they have removed it but it was clearly there (listed in front of BYD, even)
and we used that representation to install components we have trusted in
separate designs in two SMA/LG/SMA-Automatic Backup Unit systems.

 

Now I have two systems in the field where the AC Coupling is completely
useless. Because the SMA SBS has no way to continue operations when the LG
Chem battery switches from discharge to charge and vice versa, it causes the
SMA to drop off momentarily and that of course takes away the conditions
under which the AC Coupled PV inverter operates.

 

In backup mode (grid off) conditions, it retards the PV inverter output so
much so that it minimizes the switching I describe above, but once a system
load is put on, the system momentarily switches off and the SBS re-boot / PV
inverter reconnect cycle starts again. Not elegant. Not in the least bit
what we expect from an AC-Coupled design, especially one with an Automatic
Backup Unit integration that is there for the sole purpose of aggregating
the combined output of the SBS and PV inverter to provide large backed up
load capability.

 

SMA advises me that I need to put BYD into the two systems. Sure.but I
bought LG based on what you represented in documentation so I really want to
see SMA reimburse me for two BYD batteries before I spend money on legal
help to join a class-action suit regarding the misrepresentation.

 

I expect more from SMA.

 

 

 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Vic Guillot]

Actually LG Chem was first on that list earlier this year. After recent
developments they started changing their views in June, and now it seems
like BYD is their first choice. We are most interested in talking to
installers who have used the LG Chem/SBS 6.0 with some success.
Thanks,
Vic


Vic Guillot
Sol Sierra, Inc.
209.795.3554 office
209.768.3560 mobile/text



On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 10:55 AM Ray  wrote:

> I haven't used that combo, but I spent quite a bit of time researching,
> and SMA only warrants their equipment when used with batteries from their
> 'recommended' list.  LG Chem is not on the list, BYD is.  Personally I
> would be picking an inverter that has better tech support (SMA fired all
> their off grid team) and is better suited for the design.  The only reason
> I could think to use the Sunny Island would be if it was a 208, 3 phase
> setup.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 8/15/20 8:45 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>
> I have only heard that it does not work well, l have used the BYD and its
> works.
> Jerry
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:14 PM Vic Guillot  wrote:
>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>> We would like to hear from anyone who has had recent experiences dealing
>> with installation and operation of SMA-America SBS 6.0 battery inverters,
>> ABU's etc. along with LG Chem batteries. We would like to discuss the
>> functionality of this combination of inverter/battery in comparison to
>> other inverter battery options out there.
>> Thanks,
>> Vic Guillot
>> Sol Sierra, Inc.
>>
>> Vic Guillot
>> Sol Sierra, Inc.
>> 209.795.3554 office
>> 209.768.3560 mobile/text
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Ray]

I haven't used that combo, but I spent quite a bit of time researching, 
and SMA only warrants their equipment when used with batteries from 
their 'recommended' list.  LG Chem is not on the list, BYD is.  
Personally I would be picking an inverter that has better tech support 
(SMA fired all their off grid team) and is better suited for the 
design.  The only reason I could think to use the Sunny Island would be 
if it was a 208, 3 phase setup.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/15/20 8:45 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
I have only heard that it does not work well, l have used the BYD and 
its works.

Jerry

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:14 PM Vic Guillot > wrote:


Hello Wrenches,
We would like to hear from anyone who has had recent experiences
dealing with installation and operation of SMA-America SBS 6.0
battery inverters, ABU's etc. along with LG Chem batteries. We
would like to discuss the functionality of this combination of
inverter/battery in comparison to other inverter battery options
out there.
Thanks,
Vic Guillot
Sol Sierra, Inc.

Vic Guillot
Sol Sierra, Inc.
209.795.3554 office
209.768.3560 mobile/text

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Working with SBS 6.0 and LG Chem batteries

[Jerry Shafer]

I have only heard that it does not work well, l have used the BYD and its
works.
Jerry

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:14 PM Vic Guillot  wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
> We would like to hear from anyone who has had recent experiences dealing
> with installation and operation of SMA-America SBS 6.0 battery inverters,
> ABU's etc. along with LG Chem batteries. We would like to discuss the
> functionality of this combination of inverter/battery in comparison to
> other inverter battery options out there.
> Thanks,
> Vic Guillot
> Sol Sierra, Inc.
>
> Vic Guillot
> Sol Sierra, Inc.
> 209.795.3554 office
> 209.768.3560 mobile/text
>
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>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>
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