Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
At 17:16 2/08/99 +1000, you wrote: >Suzanne I'd like you to explain this comment please if you would >if u are not oppositional, then u would rejoyce in 'other' groups also finding their voices on predator 'issues' -?? >Are you telling me that as males we are all predators ? communication is difficult as everyone is on their circuit, thanks for the opportunity to explain what i must have poorly written or expressed i meant - i can relate to yr gendered ie men only space as i respect the women and children only space of reclaim the night annual march - both agree so far - single gender spaces are to be frequently found in mainstream without looking too hard, with your group being the most dominant - a lot of other people must agree that it is ok for females to organise amongst themselves and for males to do the same judging by the number of groups that exclude one or the other that exist right now - no-one has told me why this is not ok, yet many each year object to the march because men are not 'in' it - from a female point of view - men are in jst about everything else tho i walk in other spaces also, not just this single gender space these are not based on exclusively women's or men's business but on corroboree business - the 'all of us stuff' like land destruction, national health, incarceration as social control, language dessimation, trade manipulation, genocide ... this makes me the saddest/maddest of all and it is predator behaviour to me - crimes of the body - physical and social and spiritual in short - anyone who preys on humanity in ways that with knowledge, diminishes ANY individual's lived experience, is committing a crime of the body to me - and is a predator and it must stop - no matter who is doing it - women, children, men meaning governments, business ... circuits of power that exploit the women, men and kids of our communities to the max - black or grey or white or pink or rainbow or ... eg true story a medical doctor, health minister and minister for aboriginal affairs - 'leader' having gained the knowledge of all three 'offices' -of the relationship between needles and the spread of deadly diseases -of the racial composition of his 'target' community did remove, without notice to the community, 'the' needle exchange from a high drug traffic area predator behaviour to me and i am shamed that he is still holding public office and has not been punished for his crime of genocide i cannot only protest on behalf of women who suffer genocidal practices, as its victims are all women and men and children ie the whole mob as well as all mobs - 'men's business doesn't make much sense to me in this context as we haven't got our acts together in gendered arenas to say that all women or men are represented or even visible in our speak - otherwise 'we' would have eliminated violence from our lives, in all its forms, surely :) i'm tired, so if anything needs further exchange let me know cheers susanne --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
My argument is still central then Sandyare we afraid to objective what we see and how we see it/them/us whatever construct you come from. Is it discourteous of a person to mention the word fat (in frontofa fat person), sheila (in front of women) , blokes (in front of males) , guys (in front of women and men) , girls (in front of groups adult women). Im reminded of redress I have recived infront of some women aboutcallingthem Ladies and Im also reminded of redress I get when I say "woman". There in lies truth. Iwould rather think that we could overcome our delusionary stances oververbal diatribe and move onto what we really understand about racism. IE the lack of action in society, the apathy that exists, the anger that one must tolerate if one talks about these issues. The unacceptance of people other than our own gender or close family. Areyou afraid todeny yourself whoyou areby thewayyou look? Any salesman will tell you if you want the sale you have to be the part and look the part. Lets start getting back to truths- if you dont look the same you are different doesnt matter what society you live in. Its your actions that makeup how people see you and how you present to people. Despite years of words people still see that as the uncompromising truth, its only the few 10%. This society is moving toward anarchy becuase of it, its the actions of onenation thatlostthem their power, but you comehere in the wilderenss of North Queensland and youll seeone nation supportters everywhere still. While ever we continue playing on words wewill neveracheive the real endand that is justification,validation and equalityfor allpeople. Regards, Lance. - Original Message - From: Sandy Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > Lance, this is an interesting posting, but I think you're wrong to > worry that choices of words are all just "political correctness". > Someone once pointed out to me that "political correctness" is > really just a fancy name for courtesy. The deeper problem with > your posting is that you think naming a skin colour is bravely > stating "who we are". I am not the equivalent of my skin colour. I > share many characteristics with other "white" people. And I share > some characteristics with "red" and "yellow" and "black" and > "brown" people, as well as with the little green guys who come > down in the spaceship for occasional chats. To use a stereotyped > name for a skin colour (who, after all, is really "white" or "black" or > "red") is the very definition of racism. We are all at least the sum > of our parts, if not greater than the sum of our parts. What "race" > we were born into is only a very small part of who we are. > > Cheers, > Sandy > > > Theres a simple answer to your dilemma acknowledge your difference and > > accept that you as everyone else in society have inbuilt racism your > > inability to accept others choice of words (and thas all they are is words) > > suggests you have a bigger problem and that is as a result of this so called > > "politically correct" society which lacks the decency of people to express > > themselves in anyway they wish. > > If they have made a perosnal statement to you about your colour or creed > > your anger and frustration is acceptable. But if you chastising society > > becuase its celebrates the difference of people and the ability of > > marketeers and economic minded people to express and advertise themselves to > > sell product then I find your arguments difficult to accept. > > We are all differentiated from people individually, collectively as a race > > and as next door neighbours. > > Politically correctedness is not the way society is heading and rather than > > segregating people by controlling speech, we should be grasping the words > > and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin, > > yellowskin or any other skin that people are at least being acknowledged for > > who we are. > > Be proud and happy of who you are first, show by actions and affirmation > > that you are proud to be who you are then you are in front of the racists > > who slander people and denigrate them. You are better than that. I say > > DOWN with political correctedness. > > Regards, Lance. > > > > "For equal society based on active particpation and not words." > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, August
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Suzanne I'd like you to explain this comment please if you would if u are not oppositional, then u would rejoyce in 'other' groups also finding their voices on predator 'issues' -?? Are you telling me that as males we are all predators ? eg. women, children, the land, survival, pollution, violence, reconciliation, sovereignty etc - concerns of a community of peoples - yr focus is on the male form/being rather than it seems on what individual males do or say - Original Message - From: webweave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > political correctness - pc - is the platform you yourself are using to assert > the male voice in this space > > many have gone before u, who laid the 'floorboards' that u now stand on, to > assert yourself or your group identity and rights for legitimated space > > some would call u separatist because u will 'hear' of nothing but maleness, > itself non pc on the pc circuit > > if u are not oppositional, then u would rejoyce in 'other' groups also finding > their voices on predator 'issues' - eg. women, children, the land, survival, > pollution, violence, reconciliation, sovereignty etc - concerns of a community > of peoples - yr focus is on the male form/being rather than it seems on what > individual males do or say > > to me yr 'group' is just one thread that contributes or not, to the whole > fabric > in humanhood > susanne > > > > > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
political correctness - pc - is the platform you yourself are using to assert the male voice in this space many have gone before u, who laid the 'floorboards' that u now stand on, to assert yourself or your group identity and rights for legitimated space some would call u separatist because u will 'hear' of nothing but maleness, itself non pc on the pc circuit if u are not oppositional, then u would rejoyce in 'other' groups also finding their voices on predator 'issues' - eg. women, children, the land, survival, pollution, violence, reconciliation, sovereignty etc - concerns of a community of peoples - yr focus is on the male form/being rather than it seems on what individual males do or say to me yr 'group' is just one thread that contributes or not, to the whole fabric in humanhood susanne --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
irene wrote yes you are being sensitive and i agree, the words should be spoken, we need the softness the sensitiveness, the hardness is what is killing iw -- > From: Sandy Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > Date: Sunday, August 01, 1999 10:28 AM > > > Yes, Sioux, I think I know exactly how you feel. When I first > moved to Australia, I was appalled at all the "Golliwogs" in the > charming little craft shops. In the States, African American people > have been trying for decades to show how utterly unacceptable > such stereotyped representations (BIG eyes, BIG lips. How > clever.) are. Here in Australia, no one, as far as I know, gives them > a second thought. People think that as long as they don't intend > any harm, no offense should be taken. It's very difficult to convince > people that they need to expand their sensitivities. I guess you're > doing the right thing to keep bringing it up, just to put the issue on > the agenda. People won't change, though, unless it's coming from > a lot of other sources, too. Get some of your friends with > Australian accents to join in the cause! (After all, the candy > called "Fags" was renamed "Fads"!) > > Sandy > > > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro the > > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, but > > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > > wrapper! > > > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't either! > > > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > > > ~~~ > Sandy Sanders > Wormhole Books > 27A Main Street > Upwey VIC 3158 > ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 > > WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Yes, Sioux, I think I know exactly how you feel. When I first moved to Australia, I was appalled at all the "Golliwogs" in the charming little craft shops. In the States, African American people have been trying for decades to show how utterly unacceptable such stereotyped representations (BIG eyes, BIG lips. How clever.) are. Here in Australia, no one, as far as I know, gives them a second thought. People think that as long as they don't intend any harm, no offense should be taken. It's very difficult to convince people that they need to expand their sensitivities. I guess you're doing the right thing to keep bringing it up, just to put the issue on the agenda. People won't change, though, unless it's coming from a lot of other sources, too. Get some of your friends with Australian accents to join in the cause! (After all, the candy called "Fags" was renamed "Fads"!) Sandy > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro the > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, but > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > wrapper! > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't either! > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > ~~~ Sandy Sanders Wormhole Books 27A Main Street Upwey VIC 3158 ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Lance, this is an interesting posting, but I think you're wrong to worry that choices of words are all just "political correctness". Someone once pointed out to me that "political correctness" is really just a fancy name for courtesy. The deeper problem with your posting is that you think naming a skin colour is bravely stating "who we are". I am not the equivalent of my skin colour. I share many characteristics with other "white" people. And I share some characteristics with "red" and "yellow" and "black" and "brown" people, as well as with the little green guys who come down in the spaceship for occasional chats. To use a stereotyped name for a skin colour (who, after all, is really "white" or "black" or "red") is the very definition of racism. We are all at least the sum of our parts, if not greater than the sum of our parts. What "race" we were born into is only a very small part of who we are. Cheers, Sandy > Theres a simple answer to your dilemma acknowledge your difference and > accept that you as everyone else in society have inbuilt racism your > inability to accept others choice of words (and thas all they are is words) > suggests you have a bigger problem and that is as a result of this so called > "politically correct" society which lacks the decency of people to express > themselves in anyway they wish. > If they have made a perosnal statement to you about your colour or creed > your anger and frustration is acceptable. But if you chastising society > becuase its celebrates the difference of people and the ability of > marketeers and economic minded people to express and advertise themselves to > sell product then I find your arguments difficult to accept. > We are all differentiated from people individually, collectively as a race > and as next door neighbours. > Politically correctedness is not the way society is heading and rather than > segregating people by controlling speech, we should be grasping the words > and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin, > yellowskin or any other skin that people are at least being acknowledged for > who we are. > Be proud and happy of who you are first, show by actions and affirmation > that you are proud to be who you are then you are in front of the racists > who slander people and denigrate them. You are better than that. I say > DOWN with political correctedness. > Regards, Lance. > > "For equal society based on active particpation and not words." > > > > - Original Message - > From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM > Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > > > > Hau kola-pi, > > > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro > the > > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, > but > > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > > wrapper! > > > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't > either! > > > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, > > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the > > compar
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Lance Kelly wrote , we should be grasping the words >and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin, >yellowskin or any other skin that people are at least being acknowledged for >who we are. Lance, We are more than the colour of our skins. To claim that our skin colour defines ''who we are" is rubbish. E.G. The colour of my skin is indescribable in less than 2000words (approx.)---By your definition of ''who we are'', I don't exist, and as you can see by my meanderings, I do exist---so you are demonstrably wrong, Lance. Keep your eye on the bottom line, Lance---what Sioux says is correct ---we are inundated with racist messages and it is about time we did something about it. Laurie. Laurie and Desley Forde [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>- Original Message - >From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM >Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > > >> Hau kola-pi, >> >> Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro >the >> removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. >> >> In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before >> and spoken to the store owner or counter person. >> >> The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy >> thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and >> whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or >> sales person, and explain just how I feel. >> >> Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, >but >> I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be >> tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to >> these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the >> wrapper! >> >> Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and >> attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove >> the item form display and preferably from stock. >> >> I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice >> candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or >> Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't >> thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't >either! >> >> My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red >> chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? >> >> I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, >> they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the >> comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native >> american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and >> sisters here. >> >> But Please can someone see what I am saying?> >> >> I am very sad today >> >> Sioux >> --- >> RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived >at http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the >body >> of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce >> This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without >permission from the >> copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and >research under the "fair >> use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be >distributed further without >> permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." >> >> RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> > >--- >RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ >To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body >of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce >This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the >copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair >use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without >permission of the copyright owner, except
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Hi Sioux, Didn't you know? Because these people aren't intending to be offensive, they aren't actually offensive. You see, to be offensive, you must have intention. They're actually honoring Indians. [sarcasm, if you missed it :) ] I've made several complaints to Nestle' over this candy thing over the past, no response as of yet. Am trying to think of another way to handle it, this isn't working to well. I am thinking about starting a petition going with the group I'm with (KOLA, heard of us? probably not...not many people here...mainly Turtle Island based) Which Lakhota Nation are you from? peace p.s. here's part of a poem I wrote about a week ago...a history lesson for you, as I've been told the girl in the seat next to me ate a Redskin candy i wanted to ask her if shed still be enjoying it if it was called Nigger i wanted to tell her when traders hunters trappers soldiers ranchers would bring their bear skins elk skins buffalo skins to a trader for money they would bring their Indian scalps with them they called the scalps Redskins i have a Friend who was called a Redskin at school He was then punched this girl will tell me it honors remembers Indians this girl will tell me it isnt racist prejudiced discriminatory this girl will tell me she isnt racist ignorant it will turn into a Pissing match no one ever wins a Pissing match >Hau kola-pi, > >Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro the >removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > >In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before >and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > >The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy >thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and >whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or >sales person, and explain just how I feel. > >Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, but >I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be >tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to >these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the >wrapper! > >Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and >attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove >the item form display and preferably from stock. > >I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice >candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or >Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't >thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't either! > >My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red >chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > >I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, >they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the >comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native >american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and >sisters here. > >But Please can someone see what I am saying?> > >I am very sad today > >Sioux --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Well Trudy, Good luck with that, I see more serious issues that society needs to deal with than that. I think everyone is mature enough to see what a "sambo or an american indian is" thats how we know they exist ...we all played cowboys and indians as children. We all grow in our recognition of what that meant and what we now see. My only wish is and I know Ill get flamed for this is.that perhaps we should have taught our children white fella / black fella when we were kids maybe we wouldnt have the mindless lack of knowledge about aboriginal people as we do now.? People in cities have no knowledge of aboriginal people only what the media would have them believe.and now we have whole generations of people with no knowledge of first australians only what their parents assume to know. How do you find ways to make people more aware of things - I think you can use racism to beat racism really by getting some black and white stuff in play going. As children are not to know the difference and shouldnt be expected to either. However by growing and learning along with play they'll come to see what isn't right and what isworking together playing together is the only waybuilds Social Capital and Community Spirit. Anyway ciao for now. Regards, Lance. - Original Message - From: Trudy and Rod Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > Lance, > > And in many places they still have wooden "Indians" outside stores or they have black "Sambos" in the > garden. It is to be hoped that one day we will reach the level of maturity that will make such things as > repulsive to us as they are to American "Indians" and African-Americans. > > Trudy > > Lance Kelly wrote: > > > We have redskin iceblocks and redskins chewy things here in Australia to. > > Everytime I buy one I think of the plight of the American indian as thats > > what it reminds me of. > > Perhaps approaching the company that makes them to see if they support the > > American Indian and whether the have rights of access to American artwork on > > their candy/lollies might help? > > They might even be a comapany who are American Indians making money or > > business from their own idea? > > Have you been able to found out anything about that? > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM > > Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > > > > > Hau kola-pi, > > > > > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro > > the > > > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > > > > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > > > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > > > > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > > > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > > > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > > > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > > > > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, > > but > > > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > > > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > > > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > > > wrapper! > > > > > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > > > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > > > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > > > > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > > > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > > > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > > > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't > > either! > > > > > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > > > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > > > > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, > > > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the > > > comparison! My people
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
You must have been in different sixties than I was in, Lance. I think that people get too hung up on judging what is "politically correct" and lose sight of the issues because they can't get beyond that term. I prefer not to use the term, think about it or worry about it. If it so far off the spectrum that it gets noticed then I usually have a good laugh at it. The term was coined by people making fun of other people who cared about the language they used in order not to perpetuate the linguistic injustices meted out to people. In other words, "politically correct" is a sneer used by those who think it is perfectly alright to call someone a "fat bastard" whether or not it hurts. Trudy Lance Kelly wrote: > Thanks Trudy, > I guess Im trying to play 'devils advocate' because I sincerely believe > people are missing the real picture. > Can I just say I'm happy to be a "bloke" and happy to support active and > real action, but I have a real difficulty when the politically correct have > control. I believe people find it somewhat condescending and that real > genuineness is overlooked in the politically correct sphere. > I reckon that half the problem is that people cant get anywhere anyway with > real issues and that people cant be understood because part of the control > that the politcally correct use is redefining (and may I suggest pacifying) > what are real and everyday issues for people. > The sixities generation to which I belong is to blame for it, because we've > copped out of the revolution for change. > > Regards, > Lance. > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at >http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission >from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under >the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further >without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ -- ** "... and so were in a situation where were far from Parliament or Congress being there to protect people from the external powers, i.e., to control the economy in the interest of the people. Parliament is now there to control the people in the interests of the economy." --Tony Benn, MP, as quoted in the July 24, 1999, New York Times ** --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Thanks Trudy, I guess Im trying to play 'devils advocate' because I sincerely believe people are missing the real picture. Can I just say I'm happy to be a "bloke" and happy to support active and real action, but I have a real difficulty when the politically correct have control. I believe people find it somewhat condescending and that real genuineness is overlooked in the politically correct sphere. I reckon that half the problem is that people cant get anywhere anyway with real issues and that people cant be understood because part of the control that the politcally correct use is redefining (and may I suggest pacifying) what are real and everyday issues for people. The sixities generation to which I belong is to blame for it, because we've copped out of the revolution for change. Regards, Lance. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Lance, And in many places they still have wooden "Indians" outside stores or they have black "Sambos" in the garden. It is to be hoped that one day we will reach the level of maturity that will make such things as repulsive to us as they are to American "Indians" and African-Americans. Trudy Lance Kelly wrote: > We have redskin iceblocks and redskins chewy things here in Australia to. > Everytime I buy one I think of the plight of the American indian as thats > what it reminds me of. > Perhaps approaching the company that makes them to see if they support the > American Indian and whether the have rights of access to American artwork on > their candy/lollies might help? > They might even be a comapany who are American Indians making money or > business from their own idea? > Have you been able to found out anything about that? > > - Original Message - > From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM > Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > > > Hau kola-pi, > > > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro > the > > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, > but > > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > > wrapper! > > > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't > either! > > > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, > > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the > > comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native > > american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and > > sisters here. > > > > But Please can someone see what I am saying?> > > > > I am very sad today > > > > Sioux > > --- > > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived > at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be > distributed further without > > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at >http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission >from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under >th
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Lance, Lance Kelly wrote: > Trudy the trouble is no one accept the politically motivated corect use it. > Walk out on the street and listen to any conversation and the denigration > and insulting manner that people use. I agree, this happens all the time. > Oh sure people put their other hat on in an exclusive environment and try to > use the political terminology when in the presence of another but listen to > what they say when not in the presence of others and I ask the question is > this more about values and beliefs than actual activism. Depends on what result the language has. Take police for instance. In their own environment they swear all the time and then they go out an uphold the peace by arresting Aboriginal people who use the same language that the police have been using all day. Now, I would not bother about how the police talk but it is certainly worth a fight to get justice for Aboriginal people who are jailed for using the same language within earshot of the police. > I agree with you in most of your statements, but the point I am trying to > make its all about lack of concern this politically correct terminology. > In this instance at some time in the past a man was called "Nigger" Brown in > a time when it was an accepted form of expression as was many other words > and types of language. This is true. And in many places they are trying to censor books which contain the language of times past when it was acceptable to use that language. I don't agree with revisionist history in this way. > The trouble is as we become globalised through economy and society everyone > is losing their ability to freely express themselves and whatever we say and > do cannot not be expected to please everyone the world would be a very quiet > place if this was to be because some dominant philosophy would say "Ok world > you cant say this word any more or that word." It is not through globalisation that this is happening but through understanding that these kinds of words are offensive. They have always been offensive - even 200 years ago - but then the offended people had no power and the rest of the people were not aware or did not care that it was offensive. They considered it their right to use those terms because they saw themselves as superior. Today, however, many people do realise that these words are offensive and hurtful and they rightly feel that they should no longer offend people on purpose. Once it is known that people are offended a caring person doesn't use them anymore if they believe in justice for all. > If we could do this it would be great, but we cant and its not a realistic > expectation to expect people to change so much that they must not say one > word or the other. We can try to educate them. > I get castigated just for saying bloke and sheila which for 200 years of > development of the australian colloquialism has been an acceptable form or > words to use amongst friends. However its ok if I say Guys which is an > american colloquialism. > Im saying Trudy we should be trying to change the world as it exists here > and now not what has happened in the past, the past is impossible to change. I agree with you on that. > We can reconstruct it with all these new ideas about how we see the world, > but basically it is the same world with the same problems just more of em' > (the problems I mean). > A product is called fat free I find that repulsive as Im a fat person can > you change that for me? Why do you feel offended by that when the 'fat' they speak of is not the same? > Ned Kelly was a Bushranger and a bad bugger, I dont like that fact but Im > still with the surname Kelly. He wasn't bad in everybody's eyes. From what I understand there were a lot of lies told about him. The police didn't invent verballing yesterday. > People still call me Ned occasionally. > Does an insult hurt as much as being denied medical asistance when it is > freely available to others around Australia. I imagine that in some cases and for some people it can. And where we should insist on access to quality health care for all we can also insist that hurtful language not be used against people. We don't have to settle for one or the other. Especially when one costs nothing and only takes a little effort and caring. > Language does hurt and insults hurt as well, however how much time and > resource do we want to waste on a word when the quite significant real > issues beyond words that need action. > Thats all Im saying - Actions always speak Louder than Words. And sometimes the actions require a word not be used when someone says they are hurt and offended by it. Trudy > > > Regards, Lance. > > - Original Message - > From: Trudy and Rod Bray <[EMAIL PROTECT
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
We have redskin iceblocks and redskins chewy things here in Australia to. Everytime I buy one I think of the plight of the American indian as thats what it reminds me of. Perhaps approaching the company that makes them to see if they support the American Indian and whether the have rights of access to American artwork on their candy/lollies might help? They might even be a comapany who are American Indians making money or business from their own idea? Have you been able to found out anything about that? - Original Message - From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > Hau kola-pi, > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro the > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, but > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > wrapper! > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't either! > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the > comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native > american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and > sisters here. > > But Please can someone see what I am saying?> > > I am very sad today > > Sioux > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Trudy the trouble is no one accept the politically motivated corect use it. Walk out on the street and listen to any conversation and the denigration and insulting manner that people use. Oh sure people put their other hat on in an exclusive environment and try to use the political terminology when in the presence of another but listen to what they say when not in the presence of others and I ask the question is this more about values and beliefs than actual activism. I agree with you in most of your statements, but the point I am trying to make its all about lack of concern this politically correct terminology. In this instance at some time in the past a man was called "Nigger" Brown in a time when it was an accepted form of expression as was many other words and types of language. The trouble is as we become globalised through economy and society everyone is losing their ability to freely express themselves and whatever we say and do cannot not be expected to please everyone the world would be a very quiet place if this was to be because some dominant philosophy would say "Ok world you cant say this word any more or that word." If we could do this it would be great, but we cant and its not a realistic expectation to expect people to change so much that they must not say one word or the other. I get castigated just for saying bloke and sheila which for 200 years of development of the australian colloquialism has been an acceptable form or words to use amongst friends. However its ok if I say Guys which is an american colloquialism. Im saying Trudy we should be trying to change the world as it exists here and now not what has happened in the past, the past is impossible to change. We can reconstruct it with all these new ideas about how we see the world, but basically it is the same world with the same problems just more of em' (the problems I mean). A product is called fat free I find that repulsive as Im a fat person can you change that for me? Ned Kelly was a Bushranger and a bad bugger, I dont like that fact but Im still with the surname Kelly. People still call me Ned occasionally. Does an insult hurt as much as being denied medical asistance when it is freely available to others around Australia. Language does hurt and insults hurt as well, however how much time and resource do we want to waste on a word when the quite significant real issues beyond words that need action. Thats all Im saying - Actions always speak Louder than Words. Regards, Lance. - Original Message - From: Trudy and Rod Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > Lance, > > What some people call 'political correctness' others call 'good manners' and a "respect for others' > feelings". > For some people to feel that they have the right to denigrate and insult and hurt people through the > language they use because they don't want to temper their expressions and then fall back on 'freedom of > speech' is one of the most ill-mannered and callous things one can do. > Language and how one uses it can reach out and heal or it can hurt and destroy. Language is important and is > one of the ways people express to the world how they see things. > If the language one uses hurts and insults others then that person is showing the world their lack of > concern for others and often, their racism. This has nothing to do with political correctness but plain > humanity or the lack of it. > > Trudy > > Lance Kelly wrote: > > > Theres a simple answer to your dilemma acknowledge your difference and > > accept that you as everyone else in society have inbuilt racism your > > inability to accept others choice of words (and thas all they are is words) > > suggests you have a bigger problem and that is as a result of this so called > > "politically correct" society which lacks the decency of people to express > > themselves in anyway they wish. > > If they have made a perosnal statement to you about your colour or creed > > your anger and frustration is acceptable. But if you chastising society > > becuase its celebrates the difference of people and the ability of > > marketeers and economic minded people to express and advertise themselves to > > sell product then I find your arguments difficult to accept. > > We are all differentiated from people individually, collectively as a race > > and as next door neighbours. > > Politically correctedness is not the way society is heading and rather than > > segregating people by controlling speech, we should be grasping the words > > and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin, > > yellowskin or any other skin that peopl
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Lance, What some people call 'political correctness' others call 'good manners' and a "respect for others' feelings". For some people to feel that they have the right to denigrate and insult and hurt people through the language they use because they don't want to temper their expressions and then fall back on 'freedom of speech' is one of the most ill-mannered and callous things one can do. Language and how one uses it can reach out and heal or it can hurt and destroy. Language is important and is one of the ways people express to the world how they see things. If the language one uses hurts and insults others then that person is showing the world their lack of concern for others and often, their racism. This has nothing to do with political correctness but plain humanity or the lack of it. Trudy Lance Kelly wrote: > Theres a simple answer to your dilemma acknowledge your difference and > accept that you as everyone else in society have inbuilt racism your > inability to accept others choice of words (and thas all they are is words) > suggests you have a bigger problem and that is as a result of this so called > "politically correct" society which lacks the decency of people to express > themselves in anyway they wish. > If they have made a perosnal statement to you about your colour or creed > your anger and frustration is acceptable. But if you chastising society > becuase its celebrates the difference of people and the ability of > marketeers and economic minded people to express and advertise themselves to > sell product then I find your arguments difficult to accept. > We are all differentiated from people individually, collectively as a race > and as next door neighbours. > Politically correctedness is not the way society is heading and rather than > segregating people by controlling speech, we should be grasping the words > and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin, > yellowskin or any other skin that people are at least being acknowledged for > who we are. > Be proud and happy of who you are first, show by actions and affirmation > that you are proud to be who you are then you are in front of the racists > who slander people and denigrate them. You are better than that. I say > DOWN with political correctedness. > Regards, Lance. > > "For equal society based on active particpation and not words." > > - Original Message - > From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM > Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > > > Hau kola-pi, > > > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro > the > > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, > but > > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > > wrapper! > > > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't > either! > > > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, > > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the > > comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native > > american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and > > sisters here. > > > > But Please can someo
Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Theres a simple answer to your dilemma acknowledge your difference and accept that you as everyone else in society have inbuilt racism your inability to accept others choice of words (and thas all they are is words) suggests you have a bigger problem and that is as a result of this so called "politically correct" society which lacks the decency of people to express themselves in anyway they wish. If they have made a perosnal statement to you about your colour or creed your anger and frustration is acceptable. But if you chastising society becuase its celebrates the difference of people and the ability of marketeers and economic minded people to express and advertise themselves to sell product then I find your arguments difficult to accept. We are all differentiated from people individually, collectively as a race and as next door neighbours. Politically correctedness is not the way society is heading and rather than segregating people by controlling speech, we should be grasping the words and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin, yellowskin or any other skin that people are at least being acknowledged for who we are. Be proud and happy of who you are first, show by actions and affirmation that you are proud to be who you are then you are in front of the racists who slander people and denigrate them. You are better than that. I say DOWN with political correctedness. Regards, Lance. "For equal society based on active particpation and not words." - Original Message - From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers? > Hau kola-pi, > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro the > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before > and spoken to the store owner or counter person. > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or > sales person, and explain just how I feel. > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, but > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the > wrapper! > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove > the item form display and preferably from stock. > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't > thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't either! > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the > comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native > american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and > sisters here. > > But Please can someone see what I am saying?> > > I am very sad today > > Sioux > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mail
[recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
Hau kola-pi, Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking fro the removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter top. In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this before and spoken to the store owner or counter person. The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive, and whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner or sales person, and explain just how I feel. Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over this, but I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would be tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it sending to these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the wrapper! Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly, and attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please remove the item form display and preferably from stock. I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called Blackskins or Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't thing of doing such a thing...and of course they shouldn't either! My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a nigger? I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such words, they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and sisters here. But Please can someone see what I am saying?> I am very sad today Sioux --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
