Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:29:55PM +, Alan Harding wrote: I must admit that for the last year or so I have been running red-carpet and up2date. Red carpet is used for all my package updates, and it has never given any problems. Up2date is run only to do kernel upgrades. I use red-carpet exclusively, although I manually install kernel, glibc and openssl updates because redhat releases i686 binaries for them. If up2date was smart enough to download the proper machine-specific binaries, that would definitely be a point in its favor. Other than that I prefer red-carpet because the downloads are so much faster. -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 06:37:50AM -0500, Kevin MacNeil wrote:
I must admit that for the last year or so I have been running
red-carpet and up2date.
Red carpet is used for all my package updates, and it has never given
any problems.
Up2date is run only to do kernel upgrades.
I use red-carpet exclusively, although I manually install kernel, glibc
and openssl updates because redhat releases i686 binaries for them. If
up2date was smart enough to download the proper machine-specific
binaries, that would definitely be a point in its favor. Other than
that I prefer red-carpet because the downloads are so much faster.
Huh? Check again. Up2date *does* know about architectures, and will
install the correct i686 packages as needed.
I've just updated my kernel using up2date, and this is what I have:
$ rpm -q --queryformat %{arch}\n kernel
i686
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Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 12:57:23PM +0100, Anand Buddhdev wrote: On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 06:37:50AM -0500, Kevin MacNeil wrote: I use red-carpet exclusively, although I manually install kernel, glibc and openssl updates because redhat releases i686 binaries for them. If up2date was smart enough to download the proper machine-specific binaries, that would definitely be a point in its favor. Other than that I prefer red-carpet because the downloads are so much faster. Huh? Check again. Up2date *does* know about architectures, and will install the correct i686 packages as needed. I suppose I could have been more clear. What I meant was I didn't know if up2date installed machine specific binaries, but that it would be a point in its favor if it did. -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 23:45, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 00:32, Bill Anderson wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 23:24, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: All I've heard today still makes me feel like I shouldn't mix them. What specifically have you heard that makes you think that? Seriously. Maybe I'm not getting all the posts, but so far, the only complaints I've seen are problems running Ximian customized packages instead of Red Hat customized packages of GNOME. none of that is due to the packaging tools, but that Ximian and Red hat use different versions of libraries, and make customizations, as does Ximian. If you run the Ximian modified GNOME desktop and RPM, you need their packages, whether your update tool is RC, up2date, or ftp and rpm on the command line. Your points are valid. However, nothing of what I have said is meant to imply that either is a better tool than the other, or that either tool is in some way inferior. For users with the (not too complicated) knowledge to manage their updates properly, it is obviously a viable solution to use both for their respective packages. BUT... When you run an office with 15 people and none of them know whether their computer has four or six cylinders, you choose specific paths. And In my case that path is not letting them handle the updates on their boxes. :^) in my case, one of those paths is to say that those who use Red Hat are told and taught how to use up2date and are given written instructions with pictures should they choose to consult it. Adding a second update manager to the mix would lead my users straight to But Windows was simpler and me straight through the roof. Now I just wish Red Hat would issue an update for Evolution! 8.0 is at 1.0.8-10, gnomehide is at 1.1.2-1, and I see Rawhide is way ahead at 1.2.1-4. Can we get a little help for the rest of us here? I'm with you here! -- Bill Anderson RHCE #807302597505773 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 01:13, Bill Anderson wrote: Oh. Unfortunately, Red Carpet and up2date do not seem to mix very well, so Red Carpet is a solution I am not willing to implement. How so? I use them both on the same machines w/zero problems. This is why I said seem to; I have seen numerous comments on this list about Red Carpet not mixing well with up2date, and it is from this that I derive my unwillingness to risk it. I have test servers and I can experiment there; however, I have only the one notebook on which I work daily, and I cannot risk interrupting my work for stuff that might mess up my machine. -- Rodolfo J. Paiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
For what it's worth, I've been told by developers at Ximian that it's really not a good idea to try having both Red-Carpet and Up2Date on the same machine. On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 07:56, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 01:13, Bill Anderson wrote: Oh. Unfortunately, Red Carpet and up2date do not seem to mix very well, so Red Carpet is a solution I am not willing to implement. How so? I use them both on the same machines w/zero problems. This is why I said seem to; I have seen numerous comments on this list about Red Carpet not mixing well with up2date, and it is from this that I derive my unwillingness to risk it. I have test servers and I can experiment there; however, I have only the one notebook on which I work daily, and I cannot risk interrupting my work for stuff that might mess up my machine. -- Rodolfo J. Paiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Slainte, Richard S. Crawford AIM: Buffalo2K / Y!: rscrawford / ICQ: 11640404 http://www.mossroot.com http://www.stonegoose.com It is only with our heart that we can see clearly. What is essential is invisible to the eye. --Antoine de Saint Exupery signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
I used to run red-carpet and up2date on the same machine. It seemed convenient at the time if up2date wouldn't work due to a high number of users. The problems I ran into were between the Ximian stuff and the RedHat stuff. One would install a new package which would be uninstalled by the other in favor of its package. The other gotcha was with the Ximian desktop and that when I tried to upgrade to new RedHat release, none of the gnome stuff would be upgraded because it was there in the Ximian packages. I ended up getting rid of red-carpet because of the hassles, but I believe that if you only subscribe to the RedHat channel (if that's even possible) that it may be of some convenience. my $.02 -Steve -Original Message- From: Rodolfo J. Paiz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 01:13, Bill Anderson wrote: Oh. Unfortunately, Red Carpet and up2date do not seem to mix very well, so Red Carpet is a solution I am not willing to implement. How so? I use them both on the same machines w/zero problems. This is why I said seem to; I have seen numerous comments on this list about Red Carpet not mixing well with up2date, and it is from this that I derive my unwillingness to risk it. I have test servers and I can experiment there; however, I have only the one notebook on which I work daily, and I cannot risk interrupting my work for stuff that might mess up my machine. -- Rodolfo J. Paiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 09:50, Rigler, S C (Steve) wrote: I used to run red-carpet and up2date on the same machine. It seemed convenient at the time if up2date wouldn't work due to a high number of users. The problems I ran into were between the Ximian stuff and the RedHat stuff. One would install a new package which would be uninstalled by the other in favor of its package. The other gotcha was with the Ximian desktop and that when I tried to upgrade to new RedHat release, none of the gnome stuff would be upgraded because it was there in the Ximian packages. I'd classify that as a problem between the Ximian Desktop and packages and Redhat's desktop and packages, not red-carpet and up2date. I ended up getting rid of red-carpet because of the hassles, but I believe that if you only subscribe to the RedHat channel (if that's even possible) that it may be of some convenience. It is possible, in fact, if you are running RH8.0 you can't subscribe to a Ximian desktop channel. :) -- Bill Anderson RHCE #807302597505773 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 09:07, Richard S. Crawford wrote: For what it's worth, I've been told by developers at Ximian that it's really not a good idea to try having both Red-Carpet and Up2Date on the same machine. Well they are competition. RedHat wants you to pay for RHN, Ximian wants to you pay for RC premium services. ;^) Seriously though, look at what they do. They download and install RPMs, and do dependency checking. Neither of them munge the RPMD DB in a particular way that screws up the others (That's RPM's job ;) ). If you have a problem between conflicting packages, you'll have a problem between conflicting packages. If you have a conflict between Ximian's packages and Red Hat's that problem will exist independently of the tool used to download and install them. That's why you pick one desktop package set and use it. Jumping back and forth will be a problem, but it is a human error, not one related to the use of the tool. They both suffer from the same problem: namely that if it doesn't know where to get a dependency, it barfs. IMO, if they don't tell you *why*, get it from them. Those are my thoughts anyway. -- Bill Anderson RHCE #807302597505773 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
I must admit that for the last year or so I have been running red-carpet and up2date. Red carpet is used for all my package updates, and it has never given any problems. Up2date is run only to do kernel upgrades. works for me my 2p worth On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 16:50, Rigler, S C (Steve) wrote: I used to run red-carpet and up2date on the same machine. It seemed convenient at the time if up2date wouldn't work due to a high number of users. The problems I ran into were between the Ximian stuff and the RedHat stuff. One would install a new package which would be uninstalled by the other in favor of its package. The other gotcha was with the Ximian desktop and that when I tried to upgrade to new RedHat release, none of the gnome stuff would be upgraded because it was there in the Ximian packages. I ended up getting rid of red-carpet because of the hassles, but I believe that if you only subscribe to the RedHat channel (if that's even possible) that it may be of some convenience. my $.02 -Steve -Original Message- From: Rodolfo J. Paiz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: red-carpet and up2date on same machine On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 01:13, Bill Anderson wrote: Oh. Unfortunately, Red Carpet and up2date do not seem to mix very well, so Red Carpet is a solution I am not willing to implement. How so? I use them both on the same machines w/zero problems. This is why I said seem to; I have seen numerous comments on this list about Red Carpet not mixing well with up2date, and it is from this that I derive my unwillingness to risk it. I have test servers and I can experiment there; however, I have only the one notebook on which I work daily, and I cannot risk interrupting my work for stuff that might mess up my machine. -- Rodolfo J. Paiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list -- Alan Jan Harding Tel: 07715 539272 Unchain the Hot Petunia -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 16:29, Alan Harding wrote: I must admit that for the last year or so I have been running red-carpet and up2date. Red carpet is used for all my package updates, and it has never given any problems. Up2date is run only to do kernel upgrades. But again, you are consciously deciding not to mix them by doing different updates with one or the other. This does _not_ qualify as peaceful and harmonious coexistence in my book. I, on the other hand, would like both myself and my people to use a single tool if possible. But, far more importantly, I would like to minimize human error when someone inevitably updates the wrong thing with the wrong tool. All I've heard today still makes me feel like I shouldn't mix them. -- Rodolfo J. Paiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 23:24, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 16:29, Alan Harding wrote: I must admit that for the last year or so I have been running red-carpet and up2date. Red carpet is used for all my package updates, and it has never given any problems. Up2date is run only to do kernel upgrades. But again, you are consciously deciding not to mix them by doing different updates with one or the other. This does _not_ qualify as peaceful and harmonious coexistence in my book. Not entirely, Red-carpet doesn't do kernel updates. The choice really isn't there for kernel updates. I, on the other hand, would like both myself and my people to use a single tool if possible. But, far more importantly, I would like to minimize human error when someone inevitably updates the wrong thing with the wrong tool. All I've heard today still makes me feel like I shouldn't mix them. What specifically have you heard that makes you think that? Seriously. Maybe I'm not getting all the posts, but so far, the only complaints I've seen are problems running Ximian customized packages instead of Red Hat customized packages of GNOME. none of that is due to the packaging tools, but that Ximian and Red hat use different versions of libraries, and make customizations, as does Ximian. If you run the Ximian modified GNOME desktop and RPM, you need their packages, whether your update tool is RC, up2date, or ftp and rpm on the command line. I teach this stuff, so that is why I want to see the arguments; nothing personal. -- Bill Anderson RHCE #807302597505773 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
RE: red-carpet and up2date on same machine
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 00:32, Bill Anderson wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 23:24, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: All I've heard today still makes me feel like I shouldn't mix them. What specifically have you heard that makes you think that? Seriously. Maybe I'm not getting all the posts, but so far, the only complaints I've seen are problems running Ximian customized packages instead of Red Hat customized packages of GNOME. none of that is due to the packaging tools, but that Ximian and Red hat use different versions of libraries, and make customizations, as does Ximian. If you run the Ximian modified GNOME desktop and RPM, you need their packages, whether your update tool is RC, up2date, or ftp and rpm on the command line. Your points are valid. However, nothing of what I have said is meant to imply that either is a better tool than the other, or that either tool is in some way inferior. For users with the (not too complicated) knowledge to manage their updates properly, it is obviously a viable solution to use both for their respective packages. BUT... When you run an office with 15 people and none of them know whether their computer has four or six cylinders, you choose specific paths. And in my case, one of those paths is to say that those who use Red Hat are told and taught how to use up2date and are given written instructions with pictures should they choose to consult it. Adding a second update manager to the mix would lead my users straight to But Windows was simpler and me straight through the roof. Now I just wish Red Hat would issue an update for Evolution! 8.0 is at 1.0.8-10, gnomehide is at 1.1.2-1, and I see Rawhide is way ahead at 1.2.1-4. Can we get a little help for the rest of us here? -- Rodolfo J. Paiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
