Re: [Repeater-Builder] Using a beam and a omni to TX at the same time?

[Mike WA6ILQ]

At 11:17 AM 9/30/04, you wrote:

>I want to be able to run a beam to one location but still run the omni
>for all round coverage, what kind of equipment do I need? Going to be
>using the repeater for warehouse coverage but need the beam to get the
>signal to the house some distance away. So both antennas are TX at the
>same time. Does or is there anything out there on the market that does
>this?
>Dakota


If you are going to run two antennas, you need  a power splitter.
Think of it doing the same function as a cable TV splitter, but
with the repeater TX taking the place of the incoming cable, and
the two antennas taking the place of the two TV sets.

But do you actually need two antennas?  If the repeater is to
cover the warehouse only, could you relocate it to the end of
the warehouse that is furthest from the house and replace
the omni with a 2-element beam pointed at the house?  This
would place the warehouse in the pattern of the beam (and
a 2-el is broad), plus put have the house as the beam's "target".

If you do decide that you want to use two antennas realize
that you are getting into a whole new field - antenna system
design.

Common power splitters are made in 2 ports and 4 ports,
and naturally the 2-port have 3db per port and the 4 port
are 6db.  Hams that run huge arrays of beams
(i.e. moonbounce) use these splitters a lot.

KLM corp used to be a big player in them, but they folded.
You might find one of their units at a hamfest.
M Squared is now making them, and HRO stocks both
them and MECA corp.  A 2-port (i.e. 3db) model that
handles 200w is less than $100
The M in M Squared is the same Mike that was part of KLM.

http://www.e-meca.com
http://www.m2inc.com

Problems:
1) 3db reduced power to each port, as expected. Your
repeaters omni footprint will shrink, and you will have
less penetration than you do now.
2) weird pattern on the omni if the beam is anywhere
in or even near the omni pattern - two hot antennas do
interact.
To minimize the effect you will need to mount the beam
a couple of wavelengths below the omni on the tower
(on high band that's 12-15 feet of vertical separation,
or 5-6 feet on UHF).
And you will want to use a low-gain beam - maybe 2 or
4 elements at the most. The higher gain will cause more
pattern distortion
3) restricted mounting.  Some units typically have a "weep
hole" that allows condensation to drain, and if you have one
of those units it has to be down.  The fastest way to kill one
(aside from pumping a kw into a 200w unit)  is to mount it
upside down (or to plug the weep hole somehow), let it fill
up with rain or snow water and then have a cold snap that
freezes the water.
4) waterproof the splitter and all antenna cable connections.
May even have to put the splitter in a weatherproof box.

Mike WA6ILQ  





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update (Discussion)

[Eric Lemmon]

Tim,

You stated the problem quite well, even for a Saturday morning!

Since power transfer between RF circuits is maximum when the source and
load impedances are matched, that happy state is what we seek to
achieve.  If an RF power amplifier's output impedance was a stable 50
ohms at all drive levels, we would not be having a problem with
impedance matching and cable lengths.

Solid-state PAs, especially those at the low end of the price scale, are
notorious for unstable output impedances.  They seem to work great when
feeding a nice 50 ohm resistive load, but they sometimes go bonkers when
presented with a highly reactive load- such as a duplexer TX cavity. 
Tube-type PAs, such as many of those made by GE, are far more docile in
this regard because they have tuned output stages.

The tuning instructions for most commercial duplexers invariably call
for the use of a network analyzer or a high-end spectrum analyzer with a
return-loss bridge.  These instruments present a precise 50 ohm source
to the cavity under test, so that the bandpass peaks and notch depths
are adjusted to present a 50 ohm load to the transmitter at the precise
frequencies of interest.  Remember that cavities are resonant circuits
by definition, so they should NEVER be detuned once they have been
properly adjusted.

Okay, we use high-quality 50 ohm coaxial cable, such as RG-400 or
RG-214, to connect our 50 ohm cavity to the power amplifier- and we find
that the power loss through the duplexer is far more than it should be. 
The correct action is to adjust the PA so that it 50 ohms.  If that is
not possible, perhaps because the PA is a broadband solid-state unit,
then the next best action is to transform its output impedance to 50
ohms.  One way to do this is to create an impedance transformer of sorts
by adjusting the cable length of the TX-to-duplexer jumper, or by
installing an impedance matching device (Z-matcher) at the PA output
connector.  In any case, the duplexer cavity should NOT be detuned to
fix this mismatch.

Some solid-state PAs settle down if a ferrite circulator is installed at
the output.  While a circulator is often provided as a means to present
the PA with a constant load impedance, it also serves to shunt incoming
RF to a dummy load, thereby greatly minimizing the possibility of
intermodulation.  When a circulator is paired with a dummy load, many
manufacturers call it an isolator.  Most high-tier transmitters being
made today have at least one circulator built-in to the PA, especially
UHF stations.  A ferrite circulator will generate a second harmonic,
since it is a nonlinear device, so there must be a low-pass or notch
filter following the circulator.

Finally, be aware that changing the drive level on a solid-state PA will
usually change its output impedance, thereby upsetting the impedance
balance achieved earlier.  This must be considered on repeater systems
that switch to a lower power level when operating on backup batteries.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

"Tim S." wrote:
> 
> So from what I am getting here.
> 
> Only some PA's are affected by the cable length.  Mine happens to be a
> Master II Tband. It's only trial and error to discover it the problem.  It's
> trial and error to make the cable length right so the PA is happy.
> 
> If I understand this right, what cause the problem is the PA's output is not
> a true 50 ohms by failure or design.  This causes the 50 ohm coax to not be
> matched to transfer the power from the PA to the duplexer.
> 
> So you alter the cable length to make it match the output of the PA
> impedance.  Which in turn helps it to transfer the power to the duplexer.
> 
> Why does this work?  Isn't the input to the duplexer also 50 ohms?
> 
> Too much thinking for a Saturday morning!
>




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Does the R100 need duplexer if using two antennas?

[Eric Lemmon]

Since the purpose of a duplexer is to combine TX and RX in one antenna,
the simple answer is "no."

However, you might need to use cavities separately to prevent desense. 
Assuming a 50 watt transmitter, a 0.35 uV receiver, and a 5 MHz
separation, two antennas separated vertically by 35 feet might work
without too much desense.  This only works well if 100% shielded
feedlines and well-shielded radios are used.  Otherwise, some form of
bandpass filtering and double-shielded jumper cables are necessary.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Dakota Summerhawk wrote:
> 
> I have a UHF R100 and need to know if I need a duplexer if I am going to
> be using two antennas. Can someone help?
> Thanks
> Dakota
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>




 
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[Repeater-Builder] WTB: Harmonic filter for a 2 stage isolator

[Steve Rodgers]

I'm looking for a harmonic filter to use with a 2 stage isolator I acquired 
recently for my 70cm repeater. I know EMR makes one for the 300-650MHz band,
but they are pricey at $90.00 list. If anyone has an extra one they aren't 
using, and wants to sell it for a more reaonable price, please contact me off 
list.

Steve
WA6ZFT
 




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Using a beam and a omni to TX at the same time?

[Eric Lemmon]

You may be creating a severe phasing problem when attempting to use
dissimilar antennas simultaneously.  There will be many narrow lobes of
high gain adjacent to narrow lobes of very low response.

It might be better to use just a modest-gain Yagi, say four elements, at
the end of the warehouse away from your house so that its primary lobe
passes over the warehouse.  The vertical response of a low-gain Yagi is
quite broad, and will give you surprisingly good close-in coverage.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Dakota Summerhawk wrote:
> 
> I want to be able to run a beam to one location but still run the omni
> for all round coverage, what kind of equipment do I need? Going to be
> using the repeater for warehouse coverage but need the beam to get the
> signal to the house some distance away. So both antennas are TX at the
> same time. Does or is there anything out there on the market that does
> this?
> Dakota
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Tim S.]

Wow, thanks Fred and Kevin.

That sums it up quite well for me.

I'm one of those guys who needs to know why its fixed even after its fixed!

I appreciate the detailed explanations.

-Tim

> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin Custer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 10:07 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update
> 
> 
> Tim S. wrote:
> 
> >So from what I am getting here.
> >
> >Only some PA's are affected by the cable length.  Mine happens to be a
> >Master II Tband. It's only trial and error to discover it the problem.
> It's
> >trial and error to make the cable length right so the PA is happy.
> >
> 
> Right.  Wacom pointed this out in this document:
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/wacom/wp6xxVHFtuninginstructions.pdf
> Look o page 4
> 
> Many of us choose to use commercial equipment converted to the ham
> band.  While this equipment *may* have presented a 50 ohm load or source
> at its design frequency, it may not when moved to another portion of the
> spectrum.  Even equipment designed to work, and operated on a particular
> band *may* not present a 50 ohm load.  Motorola realized when designing
> that vintage of PA's for the UHF Micor that things could easily go
> wrong; and is why every Micor UHF Station and Mobile came with a
> circulator.  GE eventually adapted to it as well; in their UHF stations:
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/mastrIIuhfpacomments.html
> 
> >If I understand this right, what cause the problem is the PA's output is
> not
> >a true 50 ohms by failure or design.  This causes the 50 ohm coax to not
> be
> >matched to transfer the power from the PA to the duplexer.
> >
> 
> Right, failure not necessarily by design, may be a better way to put it.
> 
> >So you alter the cable length to make it match the output of the PA
> >impedance.  Which in turn helps it to transfer the power to the duplexer.
> >
> >Why does this work?  Isn't the input to the duplexer also 50 ohms?
> >
> 
> The transmitter output *may* not be 50 ohms.  The duplexer *may* not be
> presenting a stable load to the transmitter due to the fact that the
> load is reactive and not consistent over a wide frequency range.  The
> duplexer may not be looking at a perfect 50 ohm antenna over its
> operating range.
> 
> With all of the variables, it would be difficult to impossible to
> predict 'perfect' cable lengths between the duplexer and radio set,
> that's why using a matcher or experimenting with lengths is likely
> quicker.
> 
> Kevin Custer
> 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Kevin Custer]

Tim S. wrote:

>So from what I am getting here.  
>
>Only some PA's are affected by the cable length.  Mine happens to be a
>Master II Tband. It's only trial and error to discover it the problem.  It's
>trial and error to make the cable length right so the PA is happy.
>

Right.  Wacom pointed this out in this document:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/wacom/wp6xxVHFtuninginstructions.pdf
Look o page 4

Many of us choose to use commercial equipment converted to the ham 
band.  While this equipment *may* have presented a 50 ohm load or source 
at its design frequency, it may not when moved to another portion of the 
spectrum.  Even equipment designed to work, and operated on a particular 
band *may* not present a 50 ohm load.  Motorola realized when designing 
that vintage of PA's for the UHF Micor that things could easily go 
wrong; and is why every Micor UHF Station and Mobile came with a 
circulator.  GE eventually adapted to it as well; in their UHF stations:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/mastrIIuhfpacomments.html

>If I understand this right, what cause the problem is the PA's output is not
>a true 50 ohms by failure or design.  This causes the 50 ohm coax to not be
>matched to transfer the power from the PA to the duplexer.
>

Right, failure not necessarily by design, may be a better way to put it.

>So you alter the cable length to make it match the output of the PA
>impedance.  Which in turn helps it to transfer the power to the duplexer.
>
>Why does this work?  Isn't the input to the duplexer also 50 ohms?
>

The transmitter output *may* not be 50 ohms.  The duplexer *may* not be 
presenting a stable load to the transmitter due to the fact that the 
load is reactive and not consistent over a wide frequency range.  The 
duplexer may not be looking at a perfect 50 ohm antenna over its 
operating range.

With all of the variables, it would be difficult to impossible to 
predict 'perfect' cable lengths between the duplexer and radio set, 
that's why using a matcher or experimenting with lengths is likely quicker.

Kevin Custer






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Fred Seamans]

I would like to offer a few points from working on MII for 35 years. Ex
Engineer retired now!
1. The output Impedance of the MII Amps is a nominal 50 ohms; actually it
varies over quite a wide range and both inductive and capacitive
reactance's. The mfg tolerances of the output transistors could not be
tightly controlled by the suppliers. This is why the Z Matcher was
introduced, to match the output impedance of the PA to a 50 ohm load.
2. The input impedance to a duplexer is 50 ohms only at the resonant
frequency of the duplexer. All other frequencies are reactive. A compelling
reason to place a Ferrite Isolator between the PA and the Duplexer.
3. It is not recommended that you place a Thru-line watt meter in the cable
between the PA and the duplexer unless you plan to leave it there for all
time. Erroneous indications will be indicated and detuning as indicated by
the PA's collector current changes.
4. The best installation for MII PA's is to have the PA output connected to
a Z Matcher, then to a Ferrite Isolator, then to a low pass filter and then
to the duplexer. ( Proper alignment is required in all cases)

Fred W5VAY
- Original Message -
From: "Tim S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update


>
> So from what I am getting here.
>
> Only some PA's are affected by the cable length.  Mine happens to be a
> Master II Tband. It's only trial and error to discover it the problem.
It's
> trial and error to make the cable length right so the PA is happy.
>
> If I understand this right, what cause the problem is the PA's output is
not
> a true 50 ohms by failure or design.  This causes the 50 ohm coax to not
be
> matched to transfer the power from the PA to the duplexer.
>
> So you alter the cable length to make it match the output of the PA
> impedance.  Which in turn helps it to transfer the power to the duplexer.
>
> Why does this work?  Isn't the input to the duplexer also 50 ohms?
>
> Too much thinking for a Saturday morning!
>
> -Tim
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 4:45 AM
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update
> >
> >
> > I have used a short cable, then used various coax
> > adapters to lengthen the cable.  This is easier than
> > the "cut and try" technique.  I have one of those
> > adapter kits that allows you to put together any
> > combination of adapters.  For example, I can make a
> > male UHF to female UHF adapter.  This will add length
> > to the cable easily and quickly.
> >
> > If I see that cable length is effecting matching, I
> > then take the time to cut a cable to that magic
> > length.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > > If you have several hours of free time, and
> > > nothing else to do, you can use the "cut and try"
> > >method of finding the magic length of cable that
> > >transforms the output impedance of your PA to the
> > input >impedance of your duplexer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Tim S.]

.  Although the length of the
> > cable is certainly a factor, you should also check to be
> > certain that the cable is not defective.

What would be the best way to check the cable for not being defective?

I checked the output directly off the PA and then through the cable and it
was the same.  The cable was visually inspected and looked fine.

-Tim






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Tim S.]

So from what I am getting here.  

Only some PA's are affected by the cable length.  Mine happens to be a
Master II Tband. It's only trial and error to discover it the problem.  It's
trial and error to make the cable length right so the PA is happy.

If I understand this right, what cause the problem is the PA's output is not
a true 50 ohms by failure or design.  This causes the 50 ohm coax to not be
matched to transfer the power from the PA to the duplexer.

So you alter the cable length to make it match the output of the PA
impedance.  Which in turn helps it to transfer the power to the duplexer.

Why does this work?  Isn't the input to the duplexer also 50 ohms?

Too much thinking for a Saturday morning!

-Tim

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 4:45 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update
> 
> 
> I have used a short cable, then used various coax
> adapters to lengthen the cable.  This is easier than
> the "cut and try" technique.  I have one of those
> adapter kits that allows you to put together any
> combination of adapters.  For example, I can make a
> male UHF to female UHF adapter.  This will add length
> to the cable easily and quickly.
> 
> If I see that cable length is effecting matching, I
> then take the time to cut a cable to that magic
> length.
> 
> Joe
> 
> > If you have several hours of free time, and
> > nothing else to do, you can use the "cut and try"
> >method of finding the magic length of cable that
> >transforms the output impedance of your PA to the
> input >impedance of your duplexer.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxtrac conversion to 220?

[James]

What did you do to get the Receive and Exciter to go there?? I would
love to use some of my more "modern" moto stuff on that band.

James

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just wondering if anyone else has attempted to
convert a vhf Maxtrac to 222mhz? I would be interested in the results.
I was able to get the receiver to go up and meet original specs easily.
Even the exiter went easily. The pa seems to be my biggest hurdle.
Hoped someone else may had broken this ground before. I am going to
install one now as our repeater receiver. I would also like to replace
our transmitter with one in the future.
  
Thanks,
Glenn W8AK
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  














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[Repeater-Builder] Slow messages

[Kevin Custer]

John,  et,all

Yahoo has had some serious trouble with the list server the last few 
weeks.  In talking with someone that seems to have some insight, they 
are making changes and doing upgrades which has caused this mess.  I 
have been told that it should clear up in a few days.   I guess we'll see.

Kevin

JOHN MACKEY wrote:

>OK, here is my test.  I am sending this at 1:56 PM Pacific time.
>It seems to take nearly a day for messages to clear this list.
>






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Controller

[Steve Strobel]

The Club Deluxe II functions almost identically to the RLC-3 and costs a lot 
less.  I will handle up to six radios plus an autopatch (included) for under 
$1200.  You can find more information at 
.  Disclaimer:  I work for Link 
Communications.

Steve


At 07:16 AM 9/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>And a bigger price. << Grin >>
>
>I do like the RLC3, but was hoping for an alternative.
>
>Ed
>
>Sean Fitzharris wrote:
>
>> Ed,
>>
>> You'll want to look at Link-comm's RLC-3 controller which is upgradable to
>> 8 radio ports.
>>
>> http://www.link-comm.com/rlc3.html
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Mr. Edgar McKinney wrote:
>>
>> > Ok... I'd like one to run a  42 Mcsr, 146 mcs, 225 Mcs, 444 Mcs, and a
>> > 900 pluss a remote base.
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> > Paul Guello wrote:
>> >
>> > >  Ed,The Link RLC-4 is a 4 port controller, I don't think NHRC has
>> > > anything like that.Paul
>> > >
>> > > "Mr. Edgar McKinney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  Do they have a controller like the LINK's RLC-4?
>> > >
>> > >  Ed
>> > >
>> > >  Paul Guello wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  > Have you checked out the inexpensive controller kits
>> > >  > from NHRC? They may have more features than you need,
>> > >  > but they are easy to build and small.
>> > >  >
>> > >  > http://www.nhrc.net/
>> > >  >
>> > >  > Paul, KB9WLC
>> > >  >
>> > >  > --- goreks2000 wrote:
>> > >  >
>> > >  > > Hello
>> > >  > > I want to build a simple repeater controller to have
>> > >  > > as a portable
>> > >  > > repeater along wit my Motorola HT800 (407-435mhz)to
>> > >  > > use on small
>> > >  > > motor sports event but I don't find (I think I use
>> > >  > > one HT800 as RX
>> > >  > > and a mobile rig as TX ex yaesu FT7800)
>> > >  > > Any thing simple, most controllers have DTMF or CTSS
>> > >  > > in it
>> > >  > > The only thing I need is PTT opening (maybe 1750
>> > >  > > hz )
>> > >  > > And a Audio isolation/amplifier if necessary
>> > >  > > Can any one help me with building instructions
>> > >  > > Manny thanks and 73
>> > >  > > Göran SM1YCE
>> > >  > > Sweden
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > > Sorry for my bad spelling I hope you understand any
>> > >  > > way
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
>> > >  > >
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[Repeater-Builder] Does the R100 need duplexer if using two anetnnas?

[Dakota Summerhawk]

I have a UHF R100 and need to know if I need a duplexer if I am going to
be using two antennas. Can someone help?
Thanks
Dakota

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Re: FW: [Repeater-Builder] Slow messages

[JOHN MACKEY]

OK, here is my test.  I am sending this at 1:56 PM Pacific time.

It seems to take nearly a day for messages to clear this list.


-- Original Message --
Received: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 02:49:00 PM CDT
From: "Paul Finch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED] com" 
Subject: FW: [Repeater-Builder] Slow messages

> It is slow, I just got this email from the group at 3:49 PM Thursday.  Not
> days hours, wonder if all messages are moderated because of spam, if so
> sorry for the bother with this email.  Just for information anyway.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Finch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:36 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Slow messages
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> I sent this at8:35 AM Thursday morning but the point is the group could be
> in the moderated mode.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: JOHN MACKEY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:29 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Slow messages
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed lately that this list has been very slow to process
> messages?  It seems like it takes about a day for messages to post!
> 
> That is really poor performance.
> 
> :(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
> 










 
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[Repeater-Builder] Using a beam and a onmi to TX at the same time?

[Dakota Summerhawk]

I want to be able to run a beam to one location but still run the omni
for all round coverage, what kind of equipment do I need? Going to be
using the repeater for warehouse coverage but need the beam to get the
signal to the house some distance away. So both antennas are TX at the
same time. Does or is there anything out there on the market that does
this?
Dakota

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[Repeater-Builder] Maxtrac conversion to 220?

[w8ak]

Just wondering if anyone else has attempted to convert a vhf Maxtrac to 222mhz? I would be interested in the results. I was able to get the receiver to go up and meet original specs easily. Even the exiter went easily. The pa seems to be my biggest hurdle. Hoped someone else may had broken this ground before. I am going to install one now as our repeater receiver. I would also like to replace our transmitter with one in the future.

Thanks,
Glenn W8AK













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Weather proof band splitter?

[Joe]

I have one of these too.  If it were my tower, I would
try putting it in one of those plastic watertight
electrical boxes and weatherseal it.

If I was getting free space on someone else's tower, I
would go out an buy the best splitter I could afford
and only climb the tower once.  I have always said
that if you get free tower space, keep your tower
climbing to an absolute minimum and use the best
material you can on the tower installation.  Repeated
climbing of the tower can lead to being asked to leave
the site due to liabilities.

Joe

--- Gran Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a Larsen AD 2/70 "Antenna Duplexer" that
> looks like it would do with judicious use of coax
>seal.
> 
> Gran K6RIF






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Joe]

I have used a short cable, then used various coax
adapters to lengthen the cable.  This is easier than
the "cut and try" technique.  I have one of those
adapter kits that allows you to put together any
combination of adapters.  For example, I can make a
male UHF to female UHF adapter.  This will add length
to the cable easily and quickly.

If I see that cable length is effecting matching, I
then take the time to cut a cable to that magic
length.

Joe

> If you have several hours of free time, and
> nothing else to do, you can use the "cut and try"
>method of finding the magic length of cable that
>transforms the output impedance of your PA to the
input >impedance of your duplexer.




 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: nice 3 tones courtesy beep(repeater controler)

[Coy Hilton]

The MCC RC-1000 will give you the three tone Courtesy tone that you 
desire look here > http://home1.gte.net/k4lk/mcc 
73 
AC0Y


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, XE2SI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lo que deseas y mucho mas lo puedes tener con el controlador
> RI-300 y lo puedes ver en el siguiente link:
> http://www.pacres.com/rpt_controller.htm
> 
> Espero te sirva la informacion.
> Juan
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: DIGITEL S.A. 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] nice 3 tones courtesy beep
(repeater controler)
> 
> 
> hi, a kind person toll me that i can found that 3 tones sound 
in a cat 250 unit, i have contacted the company about  cat 250 panel, 
but they say that cat 250 is not a repeater panel and they don´t have 
the  38 analog tones and the 50 digital tones that i need in my 
comunity repeater, 
> ( they say all the products they manufacture is for amateur 
radio hobby people.)
> 
> can anyone give some more info. about the comunity repeater 
panel that make a nice 3 tones.
> thanks.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Paul Kelley]

Excellent explanation Eric. This is what I was getting at 
when I suggested he try different cable lengths, but you 
explained it much better.

I went through this on a 2 meter repeater once. It took a 
couple of hours but I arrived at a cable length that got 
the matching about right and the PA was happy. A few months 
later I changed to a different type PA and the new one 
doesn't care what length cable I use!  ;-)

Paul


On Friday 01 October 2004 09:55 pm, Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Your experience is a reminder that repeater construction
> is not an exact science!
>
> The fact that the power through the duplexer changed
> radically when the jumper cable length was changed is
> evidence that your power amplifier was not correctly
> matched to your duplexer.  Although the length of the
> cable is certainly a factor, you should also check to be
> certain that the cable is not defective.
>
> If you have several hours of free time, and nothing else
> to do, you can use the "cut and try" method of finding
> the magic length of cable that transforms the output
> impedance of your PA to the input impedance of your
> duplexer.  Simply fabricate a number of jumper cables
> that are cut to length at 1/2 inch intervals, and try
> each one until the forward power is at a peak.  Some
> proponents of this method prefer to start with a cable
> that is a foot or so too long, and then cut off 1/2 inch
> at a time, reattach the connector, and retest until the
> optimum length is found.
>
> It is difficult to establish the exact length a PA to TX
> cavity jumper must be, even if the velocity factor of the
> cable is known, because its length also depends upon the
> length of the coupling loop inside the cavity- and the
> loop length may be an unknown.
>
> If you don't have a lot of idle time to play this game,
> you can purchase an impedance matcher (Z-Matcher) for
> about $90 that will allow you to perfectly match your PA
> in about 30 seconds.  These nifty devices are made by
> Telewave, Sinclair, and others.  They are nothing more
> than a pi network inside a box, tuned with two variable
> capacitors.  You could also build one of these devices
> for much less money, but then you would be spending a lot
> of time building something that is supposed to save you a
> lot of time.
>
> It is possible that a ferrite isolator between your PA
> and the TX cavity input will improve your power
> throughput, but that device should be employed for PA and
> IM protection more than PA matching.  YMMV...
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Tim S.]

> -Original Message-
> From: Thomas Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


> I like to tune the duplexer with service monitor for best peak and notch
> like you did then hook up repeater and check reflected power at
> transmitter
> output as you did and compare foreward and reflected readings with
> duplexer
> inline and out of line. 

I compared the two as well even after the cable *fix*.  I don't know if I
would rely on that method though.  It seemed to be higher swr when I checked
it between the TX and the duplexer.  I think it's one of those cable weird
nesses.

I like the idea of reading the loss through it.

>If reflected power is more with duplexer inline
> then most likely there is an impedance mismatch between the duplexer input
> and the transmitter output. If the difference in reflected power is small
> with duplexer in/out, I just tweak the first pass adjustment (tx off) for
> minimum reflected and usually can get a good match equal to reading with
> duplexer out of line. 

When you do this, do you go back and adjust the notch?


>If the difference is great like you described then i
> try a different jumper a little shorter or longer. 

That is something I would not have thought of if not for this list and
repeater-builder.com.  Ain't the internet neat.

>Wacom had a procedure
> for finding the right length jumper it was to add right angle conectors or
> jumpers increasing in length an inch at a time (two inches at a time on
> two
> meters) until you have added 1/2 wave total and the lowest reflected
> reading was obtained then make a  new jumper with the new optimized
> length.

Nice technique.  I got lucky and had a cable already made up that was just a
few inches longer.

> You could have had a bad cable or it may just cut to a length that made
> the
> transmitter mad.

I think it was the length.  Will never know as I don't plan on putting that
cable back in service!

> 
> If your tx output and duplexer input were 50 ohms then any length 50 ohm
> cable would work. But in the real world if your service monitor  is not
> exactly 50 ohm and transmitter output and duplexer input is not  exactly
> 50 ohm Changing length of the jumper will
> improve preformance as you described because your jumper is acting like a
> transformer.

Weird stuff.  Trial and error seems to work best.

Thanks for the input!

-Tim





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Goodies from the shack for sale

[kd6hcn]

Hi there, I have no reason to believe it doesn't work,
I opened up the case and used the "nose"
method...Everything smells good, no burnt pcb stuff,
like I said I have no "N" connectors to load it up
with.

I figure at $75.00 bucks it still a deal as an
untested amp.

If you want it, it's yours...

Regards, Barry
--- jqp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> If you still have this I am verry interisted in it
> if you believe it works?
> I have a vxr 5000 UHF that I need to add it to or if
> you have any thing 5-10
> in and 50 out?
> 
> 
> 
> 1 each RF Gain Power Amplifier rack mount 19" UHF
> Model # RF 445U, I had no "N" connectors to test
> this
> unit but it's drive is 6 - 10 watts with an output
> of
> 80 watts. Asking price $75.00 or best offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:43 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Goodies from the shack
> for sale
> 
> 
> >
> > Hello list!
> >
> > As many of you may know an associate of mine is in
> the
> > process of retiring. For the past several weeks we
> > have been cleaning out the storage area full of
> radio
> > gear collected dust for many years. Today I came
> > across the following gear up for sale if anyone is
> > interested, if not I'll sell it on ebay for a
> bidders
> > market. I prefer to list it here at a fair price
> vs.
> > ebay.
> >
> > 1 each Vertex VXR-5000(1X) VHF 25 watt continuos
> duty
> > repeater set up for external controller, no
> duplexers.
> > Asking $500.00 or best offer.
> >
> > 1 each Motorola R-100 repeater UHF PN: G2932, I
> think
> > it's either a 10 watt or 25 watt repeater with DPL
> > board installed, don't have my secret decoder ring
> > handy to know what the Part Number means:) Asking
> > $250.00 or best offer.
> >
> > 1 each Mitrek UHF mobile rig unit with GMRS rocks
> > installed (462.xxx) model # T34JJA1900AK, again no
> > secret decoder ring to know what this unit has in
> it
> > other than the rocks and PL deck (visible). Asking
> > price of $75.00 or best offer.
> >
> > 2 each Icom IC-U400 UHF commercial mobile rigs
> with
> > mobile mounting brackets and HM-35 noise
> cancelling
> > microphones. Asking price of $225.00 for the pair.
> >
> > 1 each Motorola Power Amplifier UHF Model # N1275A
> > tested today with 2 watts input & 40 watts output.
> > Asking price of $25.00 or best offer.
> >
> > 1 each RF Gain Power Amplifier rack mount 19" UHF
> > Model # RF 445U, I had no "N" connectors to test
> this
> > unit but it's drive is 6 - 10 watts with an output
> of
> > 80 watts. Asking price $75.00 or best offer.
> >
> > No reasonable offer will be refused, please
> contact me
> > offline to purchase this equipment.
> >
> > Regards, Barry
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > http://vote.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 




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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Goodies from the shack for sale

[jqp]

If you still have this I am verry interisted in it if you believe it works?
I have a vxr 5000 UHF that I need to add it to or if you have any thing 5-10
in and 50 out?



1 each RF Gain Power Amplifier rack mount 19" UHF
Model # RF 445U, I had no "N" connectors to test this
unit but it's drive is 6 - 10 watts with an output of
80 watts. Asking price $75.00 or best offer.





- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Goodies from the shack for sale


>
> Hello list!
>
> As many of you may know an associate of mine is in the
> process of retiring. For the past several weeks we
> have been cleaning out the storage area full of radio
> gear collected dust for many years. Today I came
> across the following gear up for sale if anyone is
> interested, if not I'll sell it on ebay for a bidders
> market. I prefer to list it here at a fair price vs.
> ebay.
>
> 1 each Vertex VXR-5000(1X) VHF 25 watt continuos duty
> repeater set up for external controller, no duplexers.
> Asking $500.00 or best offer.
>
> 1 each Motorola R-100 repeater UHF PN: G2932, I think
> it's either a 10 watt or 25 watt repeater with DPL
> board installed, don't have my secret decoder ring
> handy to know what the Part Number means:) Asking
> $250.00 or best offer.
>
> 1 each Mitrek UHF mobile rig unit with GMRS rocks
> installed (462.xxx) model # T34JJA1900AK, again no
> secret decoder ring to know what this unit has in it
> other than the rocks and PL deck (visible). Asking
> price of $75.00 or best offer.
>
> 2 each Icom IC-U400 UHF commercial mobile rigs with
> mobile mounting brackets and HM-35 noise cancelling
> microphones. Asking price of $225.00 for the pair.
>
> 1 each Motorola Power Amplifier UHF Model # N1275A
> tested today with 2 watts input & 40 watts output.
> Asking price of $25.00 or best offer.
>
> 1 each RF Gain Power Amplifier rack mount 19" UHF
> Model # RF 445U, I had no "N" connectors to test this
> unit but it's drive is 6 - 10 watts with an output of
> 80 watts. Asking price $75.00 or best offer.
>
> No reasonable offer will be refused, please contact me
> offline to purchase this equipment.
>
> Regards, Barry
>
>
>
> ___
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Thomas Oliver]

I like to tune the duplexer with service monitor for best peak and notch
like you did then hook up repeater and check reflected power at transmitter
output as you did and compare foreward and reflected readings with duplexer
inline and out of line. If reflected power is more with duplexer inline
then most likely there is an impedance mismatch between the duplexer input
and the transmitter output. If the difference in reflected power is small
with duplexer in/out, I just tweak the first pass adjustment (tx off) for
minimum reflected and usually can get a good match equal to reading with
duplexer out of line. If the difference is great like you described then i
try a different jumper a little shorter or longer. Wacom had a procedure
for finding the right length jumper it was to add right angle conectors or
jumpers increasing in length an inch at a time (two inches at a time on two
meters) until you have added 1/2 wave total and the lowest reflected
reading was obtained then make a  new jumper with the new optimized length.
I did this on my two meter repeater and it does work. Problem is when you
take out your meter things change a little even if you cut the jumper
allowing for length of the meter but should be close enough to work
properly.

You could have had a bad cable or it may just cut to a length that made the
transmitter mad.
 
If your tx output and duplexer input were 50 ohms then any length 50 ohm
cable would work. But in the real world if your service monitor  is not 
exactly 50 ohm and transmitter output and duplexer input is not  exactly 
50 ohm Changing length of the jumper will
improve preformance as you described because your jumper is acting like a
transformer.

Feel free to add to this or correct me if I am wrong.

tom n8ies

> [Original Message]
> From: Tim S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Date: 10/1/2004 7:38:08 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update
>
>
> Thanks to all the help here and repeater-builder.com I got it figured out.
>
> Quite interesting actually.
>
> I verified the input to the duplexer had 42 watts by using a coupler on
the
> duplexer input cable and hooking it up to my service monitor.
>
> And hooked it all back up and I had 42 watts into the service monitor
> measuring the duplexer output.
>
> So 42 watts in and 22 watts out was -2.8 db loss.
>
> Next I checked the antenna reflected power with a bird.  Bare with me here
> because the bird readings are vastly different then my recently calibrated
> monitor.
>
> The ant showed 38 out and 1/2 watt back with the bird.  Pretty good.
>
> So I checked the input to the duplexer.  65 watts out 12 back.  Not good.
(I
> guess) I say I guess here because changing the length of the duplexer
input
> cable seems to affect it.
>
> I decided to check the duplexer tuning once again and pulled the unit.
> Retuned the plungers all the way up and down and could not find a better
> peak.  Reset the notches and reinstalled.
>
> Same kind of readings as before.
>
> Then I tried a new cable from the TX to the duplexer input that I had.  It
> just happened to be about 3 inches longer than the original.
>
> That gave me on the bird 65 out and 1 back on the antenna.
>
> The service monitor showed 32.5 watts out of the duplexer.  Reverified the
> 42w into the duplexer on the new cable.
>
> For a total insertion loss of -1.1 db.
>
> Also rechecked the densense and could not measure any.
>
> Now for a homework assignment.  The original *bad* cable is 24 inches
long.
> And the TX freq is 483.0875Mhz.  So what wavelength would that be that
> caused the problem.  And I assume it is the original cable when the
repeater
> was installed 25+ years ago.  Was it always wrong or did it not effect the
> original duplexer the same?...
>
> Thanks again!
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>  
>
>







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Goodies from the shack for sale

[kd6hcn]

Hello list!

As many of you may know an associate of mine is in the
process of retiring. For the past several weeks we
have been cleaning out the storage area full of radio
gear collected dust for many years. Today I came
across the following gear up for sale if anyone is
interested, if not I'll sell it on ebay for a bidders
market. I prefer to list it here at a fair price vs.
ebay.

1 each Vertex VXR-5000(1X) VHF 25 watt continuos duty
repeater set up for external controller, no duplexers.
Asking $500.00 or best offer.

1 each Motorola R-100 repeater UHF PN: G2932, I think
it's either a 10 watt or 25 watt repeater with DPL
board installed, don't have my secret decoder ring
handy to know what the Part Number means:) Asking
$250.00 or best offer.

1 each Mitrek UHF mobile rig unit with GMRS rocks
installed (462.xxx) model # T34JJA1900AK, again no
secret decoder ring to know what this unit has in it
other than the rocks and PL deck (visible). Asking
price of $75.00 or best offer.

2 each Icom IC-U400 UHF commercial mobile rigs with
mobile mounting brackets and HM-35 noise cancelling
microphones. Asking price of $225.00 for the pair.

1 each Motorola Power Amplifier UHF Model # N1275A
tested today with 2 watts input & 40 watts output.
Asking price of $25.00 or best offer.

1 each RF Gain Power Amplifier rack mount 19" UHF
Model # RF 445U, I had no "N" connectors to test this
unit but it's drive is 6 - 10 watts with an output of
80 watts. Asking price $75.00 or best offer.

No reasonable offer will be refused, please contact me
offline to purchase this equipment.

Regards, Barry



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[Repeater-Builder] Re: highest repeater site

[John Everson]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 06:21 PM 10/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >Is there a repeater on the space station?  
> >I wonder if it is a Mastr-Pro or a ??
> 
> <---No, it's a (s)Pace.
> 
> (showing my age?)
> 
> Ken
> (FWIW, my repeater was at 10,023 feet for many years. Do I win 
anything?)
> 
Well, if you're talking Hawaii, I would think that you certainly had 
the highest site as long as the Height Above Average Terrain was a 
factor! ;-)

73 de John





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Tim S.]

That is interesting that both you and Coy mentioned the z-matcher.

I have never heard of one.  I will be looking into it for the sake of
knowledge enrichment ;-)

I assumed that the input cable length from the pa to the duplexer did not
matter and that I hit some kind of magic wavelength length that botched it
up.  Adding the three inch longer cable fixed/changed it.

Since I now measure -1.1db through the duplexer I'm happy that I got it all
matched right.

I'd feel sorry for a guy trying to figure this out without a tracking
generator to tune the duplexer.  That made me feel confident enough that the
problem was somewhere else.  I considered retuning the duplexer under power
to peek it, but decided against it.  That would have worked around the
problem or made things worse.

It was a very interesting learning process this week that started with
desense and ended with a new duplexer and TX cable.

At the start was 15 watts out of the duplexer with 15db desense.  Now its 32
watts out and 0 desense.

Think they will notice the difference? ;-)


-Tim

-Original Message-
From: Eric Lemmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 6:55 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update


Tim,

Your experience is a reminder that repeater construction is not an exact
science!

The fact that the power through the duplexer changed radically when the
jumper cable length was changed is evidence that your power amplifier
was not correctly matched to your duplexer.  Although the length of the
cable is certainly a factor, you should also check to be certain that
the cable is not defective.

If you have several hours of free time, and nothing else to do, you can
use the "cut and try" method of finding the magic length of cable that
transforms the output impedance of your PA to the input impedance of
your duplexer.  Simply fabricate a number of jumper cables that are cut
to length at 1/2 inch intervals, and try each one until the forward
power is at a peak.  Some proponents of this method prefer to start with
a cable that is a foot or so too long, and then cut off 1/2 inch at a
time, reattach the connector, and retest until the optimum length is
found.

It is difficult to establish the exact length a PA to TX cavity jumper
must be, even if the velocity factor of the cable is known, because its
length also depends upon the length of the coupling loop inside the
cavity- and the loop length may be an unknown.

If you don't have a lot of idle time to play this game, you can purchase
an impedance matcher (Z-Matcher) for about $90 that will allow you to
perfectly match your PA in about 30 seconds.  These nifty devices are
made by Telewave, Sinclair, and others.  They are nothing more than a pi
network inside a box, tuned with two variable capacitors.  You could
also build one of these devices for much less money, but then you would
be spending a lot of time building something that is supposed to save
you a lot of time.

It is possible that a ferrite isolator between your PA and the TX cavity
input will improve your power throughput, but that device should be
employed for PA and IM protection more than PA matching.  YMMV...

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Triple Posts?? INFO

[Richard]

Neither of those applied to me either, but I was affected in one group. It
has since cleared up.

Richard, N7TGB




-Original Message-
From: Jim B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:21 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Triple Posts?? INFO


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:54:40 -0700 Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>   Anyone else on this list getting triple posts?
>
>
> Only a 'select few'  -- it's been happening for about a week,
> across many Y!groups, and appears to affect folks who've newly-subscribed
> -or- made address changes.  Their info has been duplicated in the member
> lists
>

Well, neither of those applies to me, so that blows that...

> So far, attempts to remove "extra" address listings have resulted in the
> removal of "all" entries for that member.
> It's a Yahoo thing, and List Owners have NO real control --  Pending a
> fix, the best opinions offered elsewhere is to ride it out...
>
Yeah, I figured that. They really are pretty incompetant. I keep getting
put into 'bounce' status for no reason. Sent them many emails, each one
nastier than the last, to no avail.

--
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL






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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Eric Lemmon]

Tim,

Your experience is a reminder that repeater construction is not an exact
science!

The fact that the power through the duplexer changed radically when the
jumper cable length was changed is evidence that your power amplifier
was not correctly matched to your duplexer.  Although the length of the
cable is certainly a factor, you should also check to be certain that
the cable is not defective.

If you have several hours of free time, and nothing else to do, you can
use the "cut and try" method of finding the magic length of cable that
transforms the output impedance of your PA to the input impedance of
your duplexer.  Simply fabricate a number of jumper cables that are cut
to length at 1/2 inch intervals, and try each one until the forward
power is at a peak.  Some proponents of this method prefer to start with
a cable that is a foot or so too long, and then cut off 1/2 inch at a
time, reattach the connector, and retest until the optimum length is
found.

It is difficult to establish the exact length a PA to TX cavity jumper
must be, even if the velocity factor of the cable is known, because its
length also depends upon the length of the coupling loop inside the
cavity- and the loop length may be an unknown.

If you don't have a lot of idle time to play this game, you can purchase
an impedance matcher (Z-Matcher) for about $90 that will allow you to
perfectly match your PA in about 30 seconds.  These nifty devices are
made by Telewave, Sinclair, and others.  They are nothing more than a pi
network inside a box, tuned with two variable capacitors.  You could
also build one of these devices for much less money, but then you would
be spending a lot of time building something that is supposed to save
you a lot of time.

It is possible that a ferrite isolator between your PA and the TX cavity
input will improve your power throughput, but that device should be
employed for PA and IM protection more than PA matching.  YMMV...

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

"Tim S." wrote:
> 
... Then I tried a new cable from the TX to the duplexer input that I
had.  It just happened to be about 3 inches longer than the original.
That gave me on the Bird 65 out and 1 back on the antenna... For a total
insertion loss of -1.1 dB...

...Now for a homework assignment.  The original *bad* cable is 24 inches
long... freq is 483.0875 MHz.  So what wavelength would that be that
caused the problem.  And I assume it is the original cable when the
repeater was installed 25+ years ago.  Was it always wrong or did it not
affect the original duplexer the same?...




 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: highest repeater site

[Ken Arck]

At 06:21 PM 10/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Is there a repeater on the space station?  
>I wonder if it is a Mastr-Pro or a ??

<---No, it's a (s)Pace.

(showing my age?)

Ken
(FWIW, my repeater was at 10,023 feet for many years. Do I win anything?)
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
We now offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Weather proof band splitter?

[Paul Finch]

Hello,

I am using the old Microwave Associates cross band couplers on my commercial
tower for high band and UHF, works well and so far in 5 years it's never
given any problems.  I have redundant 1 5/8 Heliax receive lines with
crossband couplers and one 1 5/8 Heliax line with the same crossband
couplers for the transmit side 100 feet down the tower.

If you put something up a tall tower it has to be built really well in case
of lightning.  Had some of that tonight matter of fact!  First rain in over
a month.  Also since 1998 when I erected the tower I have never had a
lightning related failure to the antenna system receive system, had one that
came through the AC line.  Blew the Transtector lightning arrestor in one
paging base, blew the main breaker and everything else was OK.

Paul
WB5IDM


-Original Message-
From: Gran Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 8:31 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Weather proof band splitter?



Hi All

I have the need to use a VHF/UHF band splitter on a tower.  Any experience
out there?

I have a Larsen AD 2/70 "Antenna Duplexer" that looks like it would do with
judicious use of   of coax seal.

Gran K6RIF






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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: highest repeater site

[Leon Ingerick]

Is there a repeater on the space station?  

That's gotta about as high as you can get I would
think..

I wonder if it is a Mastr-Pro or a ??


Leon-N2HLT


--- skipp025 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I used to work with a real bad pot-head. He'd climb 
> to the top of a tower and smoke up a storm.  Would 
> he qualify the site as the highest repeater? 
> 
> He did good enough work, just took 3 times as long 
> and you had to eat pizza after every job.  
> 
> No one said anything because he'd climb the tall 
> unsafe towers that most of the crew wouldn't
> trust... 
> or would be to fat to get climb.  
> 
> cheers
> skipp 
> 
> www.radiowrench.com 
> 
> > Bob Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At 10/1/2004 05:12 AM, you wrote:
> > >I believe the highest in Colorado (off the top of
> my head) would be
> the 
> > >Pikes Peak machines.
> > >146.970, and 448.450  at 14,109 feet above mean
> sea level.
> > 
> > Are you sure they're actually at Pike's Peak.  I
> didn't find
> anything up 
> > there when I was in the area last year.
> > 
> > Bob NO6B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 




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[Repeater-Builder] Weather proof band splitter?

[Gran Clark]

Hi All

I have the need to use a VHF/UHF band splitter on a tower.  Any experience 
out there?

I have a Larsen AD 2/70 "Antenna Duplexer" that looks like it would do with 
judicious use of   of coax seal.

Gran K6RIF





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer story update

[Coy Hilton]

Well Tim, that is going to be real close to 3/4 wave length at your 
freq. assuming a .66 prop facter like RG214. Still It would never 
hurt to have a matching device between the Tx and the duplexer. 
Normally it would be in the form of a pi network for the band in 
question. They are easy to build normally a home made inductor and a 
pair of veriable caps. or you can lay out 50 to 100 bucks for a 
commertial one.
73


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Tim S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Thanks to all the help here and repeater-builder.com I got it 
figured out.
> 
> Quite interesting actually.
> 
> I verified the input to the duplexer had 42 watts by using a 
coupler on the
> duplexer input cable and hooking it up to my service monitor.
> 
> And hooked it all back up and I had 42 watts into the service 
monitor
> measuring the duplexer output.
> 
> So 42 watts in and 22 watts out was -2.8 db loss.
> 
> Next I checked the antenna reflected power with a bird.  Bare with 
me here
> because the bird readings are vastly different then my recently 
calibrated
> monitor.
> 
> The ant showed 38 out and 1/2 watt back with the bird.  Pretty 
good.
> 
> So I checked the input to the duplexer.  65 watts out 12 back.  
Not good. (I
> guess) I say I guess here because changing the length of the 
duplexer input
> cable seems to affect it.
> 
> I decided to check the duplexer tuning once again and pulled the 
unit.
> Retuned the plungers all the way up and down and could not find a 
better
> peak.  Reset the notches and reinstalled.
> 
> Same kind of readings as before.
> 
> Then I tried a new cable from the TX to the duplexer input that I 
had.  It
> just happened to be about 3 inches longer than the original.
> 
> That gave me on the bird 65 out and 1 back on the antenna.
> 
> The service monitor showed 32.5 watts out of the duplexer.  
Reverified the
> 42w into the duplexer on the new cable.
> 
> For a total insertion loss of -1.1 db.
> 
> Also rechecked the densense and could not measure any.
> 
> Now for a homework assignment.  The original *bad* cable is 24 
inches long.
> And the TX freq is 483.0875Mhz.  So what wavelength would that be 
that
> caused the problem.  And I assume it is the original cable when 
the repeater
> was installed 25+ years ago.  Was it always wrong or did it not 
effect the
> original duplexer the same?...
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> -Tim





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update

[Tim S.]

Sorry Glenn.  Don't have that info.

I vaguely remember R9P or something.

-Tim
www.ldservice.com/tim/tim

-Original Message-
From: Glenn Little WB4UIV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 5:18 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update


In order to do a meaningful calculation, I would have to know the type of 
dielectric in the coax to determine the velocity factor. The VF will be 
less than one.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV

At 07:36 PM 10/01/04, Tim S. wrote:

>Thanks to all the help here and repeater-builder.com I got it figured out.
>
>Quite interesting actually.
>
>I verified the input to the duplexer had 42 watts by using a coupler on the
>duplexer input cable and hooking it up to my service monitor.
>
>And hooked it all back up and I had 42 watts into the service monitor
>measuring the duplexer output.
>
>So 42 watts in and 22 watts out was -2.8 db loss.
>
>Next I checked the antenna reflected power with a bird.  Bare with me here
>because the bird readings are vastly different then my recently calibrated
>monitor.
>
>The ant showed 38 out and 1/2 watt back with the bird.  Pretty good.
>
>So I checked the input to the duplexer.  65 watts out 12 back.  Not good.
(I
>guess) I say I guess here because changing the length of the duplexer input
>cable seems to affect it.
>
>I decided to check the duplexer tuning once again and pulled the unit.
>Retuned the plungers all the way up and down and could not find a better
>peak.  Reset the notches and reinstalled.
>
>Same kind of readings as before.
>
>Then I tried a new cable from the TX to the duplexer input that I had.  It
>just happened to be about 3 inches longer than the original.
>
>That gave me on the bird 65 out and 1 back on the antenna.
>
>The service monitor showed 32.5 watts out of the duplexer.  Reverified the
>42w into the duplexer on the new cable.
>
>For a total insertion loss of -1.1 db.
>
>Also rechecked the densense and could not measure any.
>
>Now for a homework assignment.  The original *bad* cable is 24 inches long.
>And the TX freq is 483.0875Mhz.  So what wavelength would that be that
>caused the problem.  And I assume it is the original cable when the
repeater
>was installed 25+ years ago.  Was it always wrong or did it not effect the
>original duplexer the same?...
>
>Thanks again!
>
>-Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>






 
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