[Repeater-Builder] Re: TX RX Systems Model Number Nomenclature
Yes, thanks Mike - I already scanned through that - but that is for duplexers. I am looking for the same thing but for the entire tx rx product line if it exists..dan n2aym --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 06:55 PM 12/28/07, you wrote: Anyone know where I can find the model number decoding matrix for the TX RX product lines? I have been through there web site and they dont seem to offer much info on this subject? If you have any idea where I can find this info please email me at my address on qrz.com as I do not get emails from this group or check here often - TIA.dan n2aym Look at the Antenna Systems page at www.repeater-builder.com Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TX RX Systems Model Number Nomenclature
Some of the numbers that TX RX used were one-of-a-kind. I remember calling them about a combiner they built for a company I worked for. They had all the records of when it was built, who it was built for, and all the specifications. There record keeping was great, they could find the document in a very short time. I don't know if they still do this but you might give them a call. Joe -- Original message -- From: fineshot1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone know where I can find the model number decoding matrix for the TX RX product lines? I have been through there web site and they dont seem to offer much info on this subject? If you have any idea where I can find this info please email me at my address on qrz.com as I do not get emails from this group or check here often - TIA.dan n2aym ---BeginMessage--- Anyone know where I can find the model number decoding matrix for the TX RX product lines? I have been through there web site and they dont seem to offer much info on this subject? If you have any idea where I can find this info please email me at my address on qrz.com as I do not get emails from this group or check here often - TIA.dan n2aym ---End Message---
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TX RX Systems Model Number Nomenclature
I think I can provide a scan of model numbers if you can wait till later today when i get my honey do list done. I have a complete txrx catalog with all that information in it. Mike KA2NDW -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of fineshot1 Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TX RX Systems Model Number Nomenclature Yes, thanks Mike - I already scanned through that - but that is for duplexers. I am looking for the same thing but for the entire tx rx product line if it exists..dan n2aym --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 06:55 PM 12/28/07, you wrote: Anyone know where I can find the model number decoding matrix for the TX RX product lines? I have been through there web site and they dont seem to offer much info on this subject? If you have any idea where I can find this info please email me at my address on qrz.com as I do not get emails from this group or check here often - TIA.dan n2aym Look at the Antenna Systems page at www.repeater-builder.com Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] GLB Preselector Files and Photos added to YahooGroups
For those of you who are interested in GLB Preselectors, I added some things to the Files and Photos area of this group. 73, Joe, K1ike ,___
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek Transmitter Tuning
You can easily figure out the connections to the Mitrek test sockets by examining the Mitrek Super Consolette test meter circuit here: www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/test-sets/hln4138a-mitrek-consolette-mete ring-kit.pdf All you need is a meter with a 50 uA movement and a 17,500 ohm resistor. A sensitive analog meter is far superior to a digital meter for this purpose, since you can easily see the voltage peaks- many of which are quite subtle. Since I have many Mitreks to convert and align, I'm building a Mitrek Test Box based upon the above circuit, and using a couple of the 12-pin plugs P/N 0180754A26 shown here, about 1/3 down the page: www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/test-sets/test-set-index.html My test cables come from an RS-232 DE-9M/DE-9F data extension cord, which has nine stranded wires with an overall shield. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sgreact47 Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 8:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek Transmitter Tuning The accual meter circuit IS one volt full scale at 50uA. The Motorola test sets all used a 19K (give or take) resistor in series with the 50uA meter. That = 20K resistance. Measurements are refered to the 0 to 50 scale. Richard Bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, what do I need to measure when they say, Meter position 3 (Which I understand is pin 3 on the test socket) but what do I need to measure with my multi-meter? Milli-volts? Milli-amps? Micro-amps?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual
According to another source, the LBI-4100 is not the one I need, but the LBI-4938C is. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know where I can obtain the manual for GE LBI #4100 ? It is not found in: The 'Mastr' Index of GE LBI's
[Repeater-Builder] Re: TX RX Systems Model Number Nomenclature
Thanks Mike - if you could email it to my email address on qrz i would appreciate it and perhaps you could post it on the files section of this board for the benefit of everyone.dan n2aym --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MikeDeWaele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I can provide a scan of model numbers if you can wait till later today when i get my honey do list done. I have a complete txrx catalog with all that information in it. Mike KA2NDW -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of fineshot1 Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TX RX Systems Model Number Nomenclature Yes, thanks Mike - I already scanned through that - but that is for duplexers. I am looking for the same thing but for the entire tx rx product line if it exists..dan n2aym --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wa6ilq@ wrote: At 06:55 PM 12/28/07, you wrote: Anyone know where I can find the model number decoding matrix for the TX RX product lines? I have been through there web site and they dont seem to offer much info on this subject? If you have any idea where I can find this info please email me at my address on qrz.com as I do not get emails from this group or check here often - TIA.dan n2aym Look at the Antenna Systems page at www.repeater-builder.com Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater conversion
Randy, The same information is covered in LBI-4938C, in the Ericsson format, here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4938c.pdf I found this LBI by using Google to search for 4EF4A3 and found several sources. This LBI is intended to print in landscape orientation on 11 by 17 inch paper. You can use the Adobe Reader Snapshot tool to select portions of the image to print on standard 8.5 by 11 inch paper. Many of the scanned LBIs on the GE Mastr Index are in full-page format, and the Snapshot tool allows one to select and print just the image portions that are needed. If you don't have access to a printer that has 11 by 17 inch capability, you can save the above PDF file to a floppy or memory stick and take it to a Kinko's or commercial graphics shop for printing in the original format. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 8:52 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater conversion Thankyou Eric for this information. Would anyone know where I can find the LBI-4100 ??? I have already searched The 'Mastr' Index of GE LBI's, The 4100 is not listed. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randy, There's nothing to convert; the 4EF4A3 Mastr Progress Line power amplifier is already designed to cover the 6m (50-54 MHz) band. My data identifies this unit as a continuous-duty amplifier that is rated at 150-300 watts, using a 4CX250B tube. It's a real workhorse. It will require careful tuning per the instructions found in LBI-4100, of course, but I don't think any modifications are needed. However, that statement applies only to the power amplifier; the other RF components of a 6m repeater, depending upon their model numbers, may require some modification for peak performance in the 6m band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:51 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater conversion I have access to a GE Power Amp Model# 4EF4A3 The freq is 42-54 MHz Can this repeater be converted to 6m (easily)? I also have the Duplexer.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual
It's the same manual. When Ericsson took over GE's product line, many of the LBIs were re-issued in a uniform 11 by 17 inch format. Unfortunately, newer is not always better. Some of Ericsson's LBIs do not contain all of the information and/or details found in the older GE versions. Also, Ericsson decided to chop up some of the long foldout schematic diagrams into two or three sections, greatly reducing their usefulness. Worse still, Ericsson reduced some schematics by 50% or more, to fit on an 11 by 17 inch page. You need a magnifying glass to read such schematics! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:24 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual According to another source, the LBI-4100 is not the one I need, but the LBI-4938C is. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know where I can obtain the manual for GE LBI #4100 ? It is not found in: The 'Mastr' Index of GE LBI's
[Repeater-Builder] 220 Notes, Remember this old newsletter?
I probably have most of the 220 Notes that were published. This newsletter was Established in 1977 to promote the use of the 220Mhz band and the most recent editor was Art Reis K9XI. The publication ended in the early 1990's and I was sorry to see it go. This newsletter was a wealth of information for all of us trying to put a Midland 13-509 on the air as a repeater. (Actually, mine was a Clegg FM-76 a clone of the midland 13-509). Today, the Internet and reflectors like this one fill the void of these past newsletters. Anyone trying to resurrect an old Midland 13-509 repeater might be interested in what was published in 220 Notes. 73, Joe, K1ike
[Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
My 2 friends just linked their 440 machines together using an Alinco DR-235T at each end for the link. They did find that there is a delay in time in which the decoder takes to decode and release. They are going to fix this by using Audio Delay Modules in the controllers at each end of the link. Also, using a high PL tone should help the decoder decode faster. 73, Joe, K1ike The Alinco 435T may be easy to set up, but the quality of the radio is lacking. The CTCSS decoder takes a minimum of 1 second to release, sometimes as long as 10 seconds. The RX front end also has an oscillation problem, causing blocking of random frequencies. The DB9 may be convenient but the 6 pin packet connector found on many radios isn't difficult to work with at all. If you buy a PS/2 mouse extension cable at your local computer store or eBay cut off the female connector, you can wire that to your IRLP board the male end plugs right into the radio. On the Kenwood G707 some of these cables don't quite fit out of the box because the radio's connector is recessed. A little carving of the molding on the PS/2 cable connector with an Exacto knife or Dremel takes care of that. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: My 2 friends just linked their 440 machines together using an Alinco DR-235T at each end for the link. They did find that there is a delay in time in which the decoder takes to decode and release. They are going to fix this by using Audio Delay Modules in the controllers at each end of the link. Also, using a high PL tone should help the decoder decode faster. Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual
Again; Thankyou Eric for your time on this issue. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the same manual. When Ericsson took over GE's product line, many of the LBIs were re-issued in a uniform 11 by 17 inch format. Unfortunately, newer is not always better. Some of Ericsson's LBIs do not contain all of the information and/or details found in the older GE versions. Also, Ericsson decided to chop up some of the long foldout schematic diagrams into two or three sections, greatly reducing their usefulness. Worse still, Ericsson reduced some schematics by 50% or more, to fit on an 11 by 17 inch page. You need a magnifying glass to read such schematics! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:24 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual According to another source, the LBI-4100 is not the one I need, but the LBI-4938C is. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Randy kb9zes@ wrote: Anyone know where I can obtain the manual for GE LBI #4100 ? It is not found in: The 'Mastr' Index of GE LBI's
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 220 Notes, Remember this old newsletter?
Thanks for reminding us old 220 FM types of this newsletter. I had totally forgotten about it. It was invaluable to me back in the 1979 when I was building my very first repeater. I had already ordered a Spec. Comm. RX and TX and, of course, that was my first mistake. The newsletter really showed me the way to put together a quick 220 repeater using the Midlands/Cleggs and to this date, I still have a number of the transceivers and even a repeater with split RX and TX boards from an old brown face Midland around. There never was a better receiver built, bar none, for 220. I have since changed out my Midland/Clegg repeaters with Maggiores, but they still hold fond memories of my first taste into the world of repeaters. Have these newsletters ever been put on computer media or do they only exist as the old paper copies? Roger W5RD --Murphy, Texas 224.18 Dallas 223.82 Murphy 927.1125 Dallas 927.0750 Murphy Original Message - From: Joe To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 220 Notes, Remember this old newsletter? I probably have most of the 220 Notes that were published. This newsletter was Established in 1977 to promote the use of the 220Mhz band and the most recent editor was Art Reis K9XI. The publication ended in the early 1990's and I was sorry to see it go. This newsletter was a wealth of information for all of us trying to put a Midland 13-509 on the air as a repeater. (Actually, mine was a Clegg FM-76 a clone of the midland 13-509). Today, the Internet and reflectors like this one fill the void of these past newsletters. Anyone trying to resurrect an old Midland 13-509 repeater might be interested in what was published in 220 Notes. 73, Joe, K1ike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.0/1180 - Release Date: 12/10/2007 2:51 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
Have you ever used a delay board and know what it can do? Ken Arck wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 220 Notes, Remember this old newsletter?
Unfortunately these are all paper copies. They're fun to look through once in a while. 73, Joe, K1ike res1q6fs wrote: Have these newsletters ever been put on computer media or do they only exist as the old paper copies? Roger W5RD --Murphy, Texas 224.18 Dallas 223.82 Murphy 927.1125 Dallas 927.0750 Murphy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
At 04:32 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Have you ever used a delay board and know what it can do? ---Oh I think I have an idea what they do, yes. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
Let's see what is wrong with my statement. The repeater controller keys up the link radio via the PTT. The Audio Delay Board places a one second delay on the audio being sent to the link radio. This allows the 2 Alinco radios on either side of the link to key up and the PL encode/decode functions to complete. After the 1 second delay, the audio is passed through to the other repeater that is being linked to. Why will this not work? Ken Arck wrote: At 04:32 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Have you ever used a delay board and know what it can do? ---Oh I think I have an idea what they do, yes. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
At 04:47 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Let's see what is wrong with my statement. The repeater controller keys up the link radio via the PTT. The Audio Delay Board places a one second delay on the audio being sent to the link radio. This allows the 2 Alinco radios on either side of the link to key up and the PL encode/decode functions to complete. After the 1 second delay, the audio is passed through to the other repeater that is being linked to. Why will this not work? ---You're missing the point. Using the delay board as you explain above will help with the slow takeup of the Alinco's decoder but it will do nothing for the extraordinarily long delay when the decoder STOPS decoding. Not to mention adding a 1 second delay to audio passing between the 2 repeaters. Your users are gonna hate it, trust me. IMHO, your best option is to use an external decoder in each radio and be done with it. The delay board bandaid is simply that - a bandaid and not a fix. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
One other thing to consider. If one user is on repeater A and the other user being talked with is on the other repeater, you have a 2 second delay in turnover between the two. As I said, your users are gonna hate it. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
[Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times
Ken, TIA/EIA-603-C, the international standard for Land Mobile Radio performance, states that CTCSS decoder response times may vary between 224 milliseconds at 67.0 Hz to no more than 150 milliseconds at 100.0 Hz and above. I have measured response times of 80 milliseconds in some radios to tones of 250.3 Hz, when the response at 67.0 Hz was close to 200 milliseconds. So, you are correct that the difference in response times between low and high tones can be measured in microseconds- in my experience the difference can be 120,000 microseconds and still meet the spec. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- Ken Arck wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
Your original comment was: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. A delay board will help fix both problems. The only question is how much delay needs to be put into the system to make it work acceptably (not perfectly). The delay board we are going to be using is adjustable for 64, 128, 256, 512 or 1024 milliseconds of delay. (NHRC-DAD board). I really doubt that 1 second will be required, but I gave my example using the longest delay available to make a point. All we need to do is to experiment with the delay value and find and acceptable value. 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times
I'm curious if you're talking mechanical or something else? Except for a funky MSF5000 I've been beating on (which takes a good 900 ms to decode 1Z), I've never seen performance as bad as you point out in an electronic type decoder. Mechanical, sure. For example, I have a reedless Mitrek decoder and that puppy is very fast, even at 67 Hz. Ken At 05:04 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Ken, TIA/EIA-603-C, the international standard for Land Mobile Radio performance, states that CTCSS decoder response times may vary between 224 milliseconds at 67.0 Hz to no more than 150 milliseconds at 100.0 Hz and above. I have measured response times of 80 milliseconds in some radios to tones of 250.3 Hz, when the response at 67.0 Hz was close to 200 milliseconds. So, you are correct that the difference in response times between low and high tones can be measured in microseconds- in my experience the difference can be 120,000 microseconds and still meet the spec. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- Ken Arck wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
Like I said, IMHO you're applying a band aid instead of fixing the root problem. Butto each his own :-) Are you going to use COS from the receiver to gate the audio in/out of the delay board? Ken At 05:11 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Your original comment was: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. A delay board will help fix both problems. The only question is how much delay needs to be put into the system to make it work acceptably (not perfectly). The delay board we are going to be using is adjustable for 64, 128, 256, 512 or 1024 milliseconds of delay. (NHRC-DAD board). I really doubt that 1 second will be required, but I gave my example using the longest delay available to make a point. All we need to do is to experiment with the delay value and find and acceptable value. 73, Joe, K1ike -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
I haven't figured out exactly what Pin #1 SQC Squelch Signal Output lead characteristics of the Alinco DR-235T is. This is probably the COS that I will use from the receiver. I would like it to be a AND PL+COS output, but it probably is only PL decode out. We are going to experiment with DCS , as the DR-235T does CTCSS or DCS. Maybe the DCS encode/decode on the radio is better than the CTCSS operation. Yes, this is not the best fix for the problem. My attempt is to make off-the-shelf products work in an acceptable configuration. Given an unlimited budget and unlimited time one could come up with a much better setup. 73, Joe, K1ike Nothing is totally useless, as it can always serve as a bad example. Ken Arck wrote: Like I said, IMHO you're applying a band aid instead of fixing the root problem. Butto each his own :-) Are you going to use COS from the receiver to gate the audio in/out of the delay board? Ken At 05:11 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Your original comment was: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. A delay board will help fix both problems. The only question is how much delay needs to be put into the system to make it work acceptably (not perfectly). The delay board we are going to be using is adjustable for 64, 128, 256, 512 or 1024 milliseconds of delay. (NHRC-DAD board). I really doubt that 1 second will be required, but I gave my example using the longest delay available to make a point. All we need to do is to experiment with the delay value and find and acceptable value. 73, Joe, K1ike -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net http://www.irlp.net/ We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times
My measurements were made on an Alinco DR-605T radio which, given the known deficiencies of the brand, may be unrepresentative of the state of the art. The TIA Standard 603 is dated December 2004, so it is likely designed to have rather liberal limits on decoder responses. I agree that modern DSP chips are capable of very fast tone recognition, but often those capabilities are poorly implemented in some transceiver brands. The TIA standard also gives 250 ms as the maximum time for audio cutoff upon removal of the CTCSS tone without reverse burst STE, and 50 ms with reverse burst STE. The world would be a better place if repeater controller manufacturers included reverse burst capability... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:50 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times I'm curious if you're talking mechanical or something else? Except for a funky MSF5000 I've been beating on (which takes a good 900 ms to decode 1Z), I've never seen performance as bad as you point out in an electronic type decoder. Mechanical, sure. For example, I have a reedless Mitrek decoder and that puppy is very fast, even at 67 Hz. Ken At 05:04 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Ken, TIA/EIA-603-C, the international standard for Land Mobile Radio performance, states that CTCSS decoder response times may vary between 224 milliseconds at 67.0 Hz to no more than 150 milliseconds at 100.0 Hz and above. I have measured response times of 80 milliseconds in some radios to tones of 250.3 Hz, when the response at 67.0 Hz was close to 200 milliseconds. So, you are correct that the difference in response times between low and high tones can be measured in microseconds- in my experience the difference can be 120,000 microseconds and still meet the spec. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- Ken Arck wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net http://www.irlp.net/ We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times
Hi Eric, The world would be a better place if repeater controller manufacturers included reverse burst capability..i S -- don't tell anybody, but the 7330 supports both standard reverse burst formats... :-) 73, Bob, WA9FBO **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
Hi Joe, The delay board we are going to be using is adjustable for 64, 128, 256, 512 or 1024 milliseconds of delay. (NHRC-DAD board). That delay board uses the MX609 Delta Modulation CODEC, a device with a S/N ratio of 30-35 dB (at the highest sampling rate; varies with frequency) and a frequency response of 300-3400 Hz (MX-COM document 20480069.004). ICS (_www.ics-ctrl.com_ (http://www.ics-ctrl.com) ) sells the S-COM-designed DADM, a delay board with a S/N ratio of 60 dB and a frequency response of 30-5000 Hz. It's also cheaper. 73, Bob Bob Schmid, WA9FBO, Member S-COM, LLC PO Box 1546 LaPorte CO 80535-1546 970-416-6505 voice 970-419-3222 fax www.scomcontrollers.com **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
[Repeater-Builder] Pager antenna-Amateur Band modification II
In response to my earlier posting on the RB few quarries are there, hence I wish give the following for further thought: The antenna is CELWAVE PD340-TP2 with 4 Separate folded dipoles on a big aluminum pipe mast. The connecting harness is routed through the pipe mast. This particular antenna is with 12Mhz bandwidth and tunned for 162-174 MHZ. All the specs. are available in the website www.rfsworld.com. Scaling the dipole elements as per ARRL Antenna handbook are possible. It is made of 10mm rod and the length of the dipole is 80cm., cutting and adding another 5-6 cm in four lengths of the folded dipole (to make the length to 91cm approx), can be done with best craftsman, to bring it tuned to 145.5Mhz. My present concern is with the harness inside the pipe mast. Will it join happily with my modification? or have to modify the harness also? HOW ??? HELP!! PETER VU2PJP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
At 12/29/2007 14:33, you wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: My 2 friends just linked their 440 machines together using an Alinco DR-235T at each end for the link. They did find that there is a delay in time in which the decoder takes to decode and release. They are going to fix this by using Audio Delay Modules in the controllers at each end of the link. Also, using a high PL tone should help the decoder decode faster. Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken This reminds me of an experiment I did with a pair of the first Bendix/King (then just King) synthesized commercial VHF HTs. I noticed that one could program a CTCSS frequency as low at 10 Hz, so I set up a pair using this tone, they worked! The CTCSS decode speed wasn't that slow either. The reason was that the absolute decode bandwidth was just as wide at 10 Hz as it was at 100 Hz. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
At 12/29/2007 16:47, you wrote: Let's see what is wrong with my statement. The repeater controller keys up the link radio via the PTT. The Audio Delay Board places a one second delay on the audio being sent to the Who makes an ADM that can produce a 1 second delay? Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking with the Alinco DR-235T tranceivers
At 12/29/2007 17:11, you wrote: Your original comment was: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. A delay board will help fix both problems. The only question is how much delay needs to be put into the system to make it work acceptably (not perfectly). The delay board we are going to be using is adjustable for 64, 128, 256, 512 or 1024 milliseconds of delay. (NHRC-DAD board). The above answers my own question, so disregard my previous query. Still, such an ADM doesn't solve the problem for the reason Ken mentions (excessive voice delay in the system). Best to use outboard CTCSS decoders. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager antenna-Amateur Band modification II
Hi Peter, You would need to modify the cable harness... else the modified antenna would not perform as well as you expect/hope. s. Peter P J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In response to my earlier posting on the RB few quarries are there, hence I wish give the following for further thought: The antenna is CELWAVE PD340-TP2 with 4 Separate folded dipoles on a big aluminum pipe mast. The connecting harness is routed through the pipe mast. This particular antenna is with 12Mhz bandwidth and tunned for 162-174 MHZ. All the specs. are available in the website www.rfsworld.com. Scaling the dipole elements as per ARRL Antenna handbook are possible. It is made of 10mm rod and the length of the dipole is 80cm., cutting and adding another 5-6 cm in four lengths of the folded dipole (to make the length to 91cm approx), can be done with best craftsman, to bring it tuned to 145.5Mhz. My present concern is with the harness inside the pipe mast. Will it join happily with my modification? or have to modify the harness also? HOW ??? HELP!! PETER VU2PJP
[Repeater-Builder] LMR-400 Coax use for Repeater to Duplexer Connections
I remember this was a topic of discussion over a year ago and I read all the posts but I do not find a definitive yes or no answer on whether or not to use LMR-400 Coax as the interconnect between my UHF repeater and duplexer. I have two 2' cables with N-Connectors at the duplexer and PL-259s at the repeater (that is what is on the repeater). Comments or recommendations to ensure a successful build? Thanks, Rob, N4RPD
