Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Friday 24 January 2014 11:42:24 Wayne Merricks wrote: > FYI, looks fine to me. I use thunderbird and my phone. I've known > Outlook and the various iDevices to mangle things beyond recognition if > thats what you're viewing it on. I can confirm that it is messed up here reading with an old kmail. drew > > Regards, > > Wayne Merricks > The Voice Asia > > On 24/01/14 16:06, Cowboy wrote: > > On Friday 24 January 2014 11:03:06 am Cowboy wrote: > >> On Friday 24 January 2014 10:30:17 am Fred Gleason wrote:> On Jan 24, > >> 2014, at 08:47 23, Cowboy wrote:> > > Who, in their > >> right mind, would produce a piece of > > **professional** equipment that > >> *deliberately* introduces> > harmonic distortion ?> > Because it sounds > >> good! > > (“Good” being, in this context, a more-or-less completely > >> subjective, ‘aesthetic’ judgement). > > > > What, where, how, something is stripping out newlines. > > > > I'll attempt a repost in a more readable fashion, if requested. > > ___ > Rivendell-dev mailing list > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Friday 24 January 2014 11:42:24 am Wayne Merricks wrote: > I've known Outlook and the various iDevices to mangle things beyond > recognition if thats what you're viewing it on. Outlook is one of the worst e-manglers I've ever run across. ( *painful* memories of spam-o-matic ( dot com ) development ) In my case, Kmail. Not that I love it, or even like it, but it's got some features... Likely, if it isn't *nix, I probably don't have it, but I might. -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
FYI, looks fine to me. I use thunderbird and my phone. I've known Outlook and the various iDevices to mangle things beyond recognition if thats what you're viewing it on. Regards, Wayne Merricks The Voice Asia On 24/01/14 16:06, Cowboy wrote: On Friday 24 January 2014 11:03:06 am Cowboy wrote: On Friday 24 January 2014 10:30:17 am Fred Gleason wrote:> On Jan 24, 2014, at 08:47 23, Cowboy wrote:> > > Who, in their right mind, would produce a piece of > > **professional** equipment that *deliberately* introduces> > harmonic distortion ?> > Because it sounds good! > > (“Good” being, in this context, a more-or-less completely subjective, ‘aesthetic’ judgement). What, where, how, something is stripping out newlines. I'll attempt a repost in a more readable fashion, if requested. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Friday 24 January 2014 11:03:06 am Cowboy wrote: > On Friday 24 January 2014 10:30:17 am Fred Gleason wrote:> On Jan 24, 2014, > at 08:47 23, Cowboy wrote:> > > Who, in their right mind, > would produce a piece of > > **professional** equipment that *deliberately* > introduces> > harmonic distortion ?> > Because it sounds good! > > (“Good” > being, in this context, a more-or-less completely subjective, ‘aesthetic’ > judgement). What, where, how, something is stripping out newlines. I'll attempt a repost in a more readable fashion, if requested. -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Friday 24 January 2014 10:30:17 am Fred Gleason wrote: > On Jan 24, 2014, at 08:47 23, Cowboy wrote: > > > Who, in their right mind, would produce a piece of > > **professional** equipment that *deliberately* introduces > > harmonic distortion ? > > Because it sounds good! > > (“Good” being, in this context, a more-or-less completely subjective, > ‘aesthetic’ judgement). On Friday 24 January 2014 09:18:58 am Alan Peterson wrote: > The makers of guitar fuzzboxes. Been that way for about 50 years. Well, yes, of course. Kinda why I added that bit about *any* kind of audio processing is, by strict definition, distortion. However, and in spite of that, it's still my opinion that anything that does add something like harmonic distortion, fuzz boxes, Yamaha Harmonizers, ( actually a REALLY nice toy ) and the like, belong in prod, not in the air chain. There is logic and sound engineering judgment here. Air chain boxes, like Optimod and Omnia are there to accentuate nuance and make it LOUDER, and more PRONOUNCED, so any undesirable "noise" had best have been already cleaned up in prod. The more we ask of those types of boxes, the more boring and bland the sound must become. They are both great boxes, don't misunderstand, but they also work best with a prod rat who knows what they do, and what to feed them, to make the final product that which is desired. Taking this back where it started, a predominantly voice book reading kind of thing, a slow to medium AGC is what he wants, not normalization. ( in my opinion, of course ) With normalization, passages that are too low will still be too low, and passages that are too hot will still be too hot. Hum and other artifacts will still be present, and perhaps made worse. I'd mentioned the 424, and I do love that box. It essentially can do what the board op should do. Ride gain in a reasonably intelligent fashion, which would solve the book reading issues. ( except for the hum and other "noise" ) Since both attack and release were adjustable, as well as degree of de-ess, it's the perfect box for what he's seeking. Just a shame it isn't made anymore, and I've told Bob that directly. I know of no good replacement for it, either. There was another, a german thing if I recall, that was similar but also had an adjustable slew rate, and was single channel only. You could really do some serious damage with that thing ! -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Jan 24, 2014, at 08:47 23, Cowboy wrote: > Who, in their right mind, would produce a piece of > **professional** equipment that *deliberately* introduces > harmonic distortion ? Because it sounds good! (“Good” being, in this context, a more-or-less completely subjective, ‘aesthetic’ judgement). Cheers! |-| | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer | | | Paravel Systems | |-| | ... all the good computer designs are bootlegged; the formally | | designed ones, if they are built at all, are dogs! | |-- David E. Lundstrom| |"A Few Good Men from Univac" | |-| ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
- Original Message - From: "Cowboy" Who, in their right mind, would produce a piece of **professional** equipment that *deliberately* introduces harmonic distortion ? The makers of guitar fuzzboxes. Been that way for about 50 years. I forget where I read it and who said it, but to paraphrase: "its amazing how we spend so many years and so much money to create as clean and pristine a signal as possible, and then willingly and happily #$%^$! it up with a $19 box from Lafayette." -ap ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Friday 24 January 2014 08:45:00 am Chris Howard - CBR wrote: > Some cuts have hum and other artifacts that would be nice > to lose if it could be done without blood, sweat and tears. "Relatively" easy in production. Almost impossible with just an in-line processor. -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Thursday 23 January 2014 08:50:52 pm Jay Ashworth wrote: > The *Compellor* does that? > I had always heard that that was what the *Exciter* did; that was it's > raison d'etre from introduction... You may be right. It's been a while. Looking at the Aphex site today, I can't find it, on either one. I'd gone to look it up once upon a time, when I'd heard that it did, in total disbelief. Who, in their right mind, would produce a piece of **professional** equipment that *deliberately* introduces harmonic distortion ? At the time, I was shocked to see it touted as a feature ! Of course, in the strictest sense, all audio processing intentionally "distorts" what passes through it. -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
Thanks for all of the good information. My content is almost all home-recorded readings of classic books. You can try some out at librivox.org. So there are level problems and audio problems in a lot of the cuts. For one-piece cuts I can cull out bad stuff but for larger works where there were multiple collaborators I can get a bum cut in the middle of a work ( e.g. one chapter in a book). I'm not aiming for perfect audio, which would be impossible given my source content. But I would like to do a reasonable job at level control. Some cuts have hum and other artifacts that would be nice to lose if it could be done without blood, sweat and tears. Some kind of look-ahead AGC would be really nice, and the normalization thing may be enough. I'm not sure I care about latency and other live-audio type features, not at this stage of the game. The trimming tool in the RDLibrary program is letting me snip off intro and extro stuff. I wish I could also x-out an internal piece, but I can live without that. And I am trying to do leveling work at that stage but when I play the cut back it is always at the same level no matter where I set the cut gain. Or it sure seems that way. So I am just going 'by eye' with the red lines and the general visual fullness of the spectrum. This is going to go out over the air on a new LPFM and we hope to do streaming also. Besides for just general production work, I am getting sales information about LPFM transmitters and they all tout the idea of having audio processing in the transmitter box. But what I need may or may not be what they have in there and I'm trying to figure out if there is any "savings!" for me in buying such a transmitter, as the manufacturers seem to think. Side-chain gate is new terminology to me, so I'm going to do some study on that. I very much appreciate the good responses to my questions. You are helping me a lot. Chris Howard Classic Book Radio On 1/23/2014 6:47 PM, Jim Stewart wrote: > I think ideally you need a “simple and slow” AGC-like compressor that has a > “side-chain gate” so that it can be adjusted so it doesn’t “pump up” the > level during silence periods that are “supposed” to exist in spoken word. > > > > I don’t know what kind of “Radio” station you are running, but you likely > will have some sort of processing needed for guarantee legal operation (as > well as generating a proper “composite” signal if an FM) which might be able > to be able to be adjusted to do this already. If you need to buy one, > perhaps the lowest priced Omnia or Optimod products (appropriate for your > type of station) would work once properly adjusted to do what you want. > Otherwise my vote is an Aphex Compeller, that I think can be “slowed down” > enough to give the processing you desire. It certainly has the side-chain > gating you need. Overall it is an excellent single-band AGC/Leveler product > but does not provide “final radio broadcast limiting” needed for legal > operation. > > > > If you like to try to do it in software inside your Rivendell box, and have > Jack Audio running, there are lots of processor plugins (like ones previously > mentioned in this thread) that can be used. I’m using a simple single-band > compressor for a web-streamed version of our FM station and have it working > great for our purposes (my exact choice would not be best for you as it has > no gate, but you might be able to find one that does). > > > > ___ > Rivendell-dev mailing list > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
- Original Message - > From: "Cowboy" > On Thursday 23 January 2014 07:47:40 pm Jim Stewart wrote: > > Otherwise my vote is an Aphex Compeller, that I think can be "slowed > > down" enough to give the processing you desire. > > Just be aware that the Compellor deliberately generates > even order distortion ! > > The theory is that even order distortion sounds pleasant, > while odd order sounds bad. > To me, distortion is distortion, but that's me. The *Compellor* does that? I had always heard that that was what the *Exciter* did; that was it's raison d'etre from introduction... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
On Thursday 23 January 2014 07:47:40 pm Jim Stewart wrote: > Otherwise my vote is an Aphex Compeller, that I think can be "slowed down" > enough to give the processing you desire. Just be aware that the Compellor deliberately generates even order distortion ! The theory is that even order distortion sounds pleasant, while odd order sounds bad. To me, distortion is distortion, but that's me. -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com Q: How many DEC repairmen does it take to fix a flat? A: Five; four to hold the car up and one to swap tires. Q: How long does it take? A: It's indeterminate. It will depend upon how many flats they've brought with them. Q: What happens if you've got TWO flats? A: They replace your generator. ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Audio Processing -- was -- normalization (Alan Peterson)
I think ideally you need a "simple and slow" AGC-like compressor that has a "side-chain gate" so that it can be adjusted so it doesn't "pump up" the level during silence periods that are "supposed" to exist in spoken word. I don't know what kind of "Radio" station you are running, but you likely will have some sort of processing needed for guarantee legal operation (as well as generating a proper "composite" signal if an FM) which might be able to be able to be adjusted to do this already. If you need to buy one, perhaps the lowest priced Omnia or Optimod products (appropriate for your type of station) would work once properly adjusted to do what you want. Otherwise my vote is an Aphex Compeller, that I think can be "slowed down" enough to give the processing you desire. It certainly has the side-chain gating you need. Overall it is an excellent single-band AGC/Leveler product but does not provide "final radio broadcast limiting" needed for legal operation. If you like to try to do it in software inside your Rivendell box, and have Jack Audio running, there are lots of processor plugins (like ones previously mentioned in this thread) that can be used. I'm using a simple single-band compressor for a web-streamed version of our FM station and have it working great for our purposes (my exact choice would not be best for you as it has no gate, but you might be able to find one that does). ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
