Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
Hi Jori, What do you mean? - if you mean that this would modify the startup of sage, then I do not think it is a good idea - on the website, why not. Vincent 2014-12-08 8:31 UTC+01:00, Jori Mantysalo jori.mantys...@uta.fi: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014, maldun wrote: But till now I see only discussions among the devlopers. But I think we should also ask the users. Yep. So Sage should on first start query something. I guess that would be easy to implement. But we should know what to do, and first try it with small population. An idea: get a random interger from 0 to 99. If it is 0, then ask = = = Hello! You have been selected as one-question user survey. For what do you use Sage: [ ] Research on pure mathematics. [ ] Research on applied mathematics. [ ] Studying math in a course. [ ] Studying math in myself without teacher. [ ] Other: ___ [Send answer] [Postpone and answer later] [No, I won't answer this] = = = -- Jori Mäntysalo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Vincent Delecroix wrote: Hi Jori, What do you mean? - if you mean that this would modify the startup of sage, then I do not think it is a good idea Why not? Some programs already do that in a form or another. See Firefox for example, or a user counter for alpine. I guess that a user that has already answered is not so likely to answer again. Hence I suggest asking only from 1% of users. -- Jori Mäntysalo
Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
I have Sage running a bunch of numerical experiments on a cluster. If this change of start up would stop some of those running (as I wouldn't input anything) I also don't think it's a good idea. The 1% would very quickly block everything... On Mon Dec 08 2014 at 8:36:57 AM Jori Mantysalo jori.mantys...@uta.fi wrote: On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Vincent Delecroix wrote: Hi Jori, What do you mean? - if you mean that this would modify the startup of sage, then I do not think it is a good idea Why not? Some programs already do that in a form or another. See Firefox for example, or a user counter for alpine. I guess that a user that has already answered is not so likely to answer again. Hence I suggest asking only from 1% of users. -- Jori Mäntysalo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Vincent Knight wrote: I have Sage running a bunch of numerical experiments on a cluster. If this change of start up would stop some of those running (as I wouldn't input anything) I also don't think it's a good idea. Python already knows if it is used interactively or not: [jm58660@localhost ~]$ echo print 1+2 | python 3 [jm58660@localhost ~]$ python Python 2.7.5 (default, Nov 3 2014, 14:26:24) [GCC 4.8.3 20140911 (Red Hat 4.8.3-7)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. 1+2 3 No version information in first case. -- Jori Mäntysalo
Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
2014-12-08 9:36 UTC+01:00, Jori Mantysalo jori.mantys...@uta.fi: On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Vincent Delecroix wrote: Hi Jori, What do you mean? - if you mean that this would modify the startup of sage, then I do not think it is a good idea Why not? Some programs already do that in a form or another. See Firefox for example, or a user counter for alpine. Saying that some others do that is not an argument (should I recall the code of conduct ;-). More seriously why if sage is used for a web service? or just run in background for some reason? You should not expect that a software is run by someone even if most of the time this is true. More reasonable options: - ask user at download - do something for the notebook - ask William for something in SMC I guess that a user that has already answered is not so likely to answer again. Hence I suggest asking only from 1% of users. If you add if randint(0,99) == 0: annoying_pop_up() in the startup, then it will affect 1% of the starting of sage. I guess that I launch sage hundred times a day. I will not love a pop up each day (even in mean). Vincent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Where is the source tarball for Sage 6.2?
Is there any place where the reasonably-recent Sage source tarballs are stored? http://www.sagemath.org/src-old/ only has the tarballs up to 6.1.1 Jeroen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Vincent Delecroix wrote:
Saying that some others do that is not an argument (should I recall
the code of conduct ;-). More seriously why if sage is used for a web
service? or just run in background for some reason? You should not
expect that a software is run by someone even if most of the time this
is true.
If you add
if randint(0,99) == 0:
annoying_pop_up()
in the startup, then it will affect 1% of the starting of sage. I
guess that I launch sage hundred times a day.
I mean that 1% of users would _even_ see the question. Sorry for not
making this clear. I.e.
if randint(0,99) == 0:
if not file_exists('.no-user-survey'):
annoying_pop_up()
make_file('.no-user-survey')
Is it really impossible to see if Sage is used interactively or not?
--
Jori Mäntysalo
[sage-devel] Re: Where is the source tarball for Sage 6.2?
Jeroen Demeyer wrote: Is there any place where the reasonably-recent Sage source tarballs are stored? http://www.sagemath.org/src-old/ only has the tarballs up to 6.1.1 Jeroen. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/release/ has a directory sage-6.2 with tarballs of all 6.2 betas, rcs, and the final. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Where is the source tarball for Sage 6.2?
If you don’t mind not having the “upstream/spkg directory content there is always: https://github.com/sagemath/sage/releases I also have a complete tarball of sage 5.12 here. François On 8/12/2014, at 21:52, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote: Is there any place where the reasonably-recent Sage source tarballs are stored? http://www.sagemath.org/src-old/ only has the tarballs up to 6.1.1 Jeroen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] User Survey
On 2014-12-05 21:14, maldun wrote: Hi! Since William's statement, that Sage failed as a real alternative to the 4 MMs there are currently some threads with thoughts on improving Sage. But till now I see only discussions among the devlopers. But I think we should also ask the users. The most of us here are scientists. But to make Sage successful we have to be more considerate about a big block of non mathematicians and beginners, which are a big portion of potential users. I don't think that the functionality of Sage is the big problem, in fact Sage has a great features for zero cost. A bigger problem is that Sage is lacking good 'user experience'. This starts already with installation. We still don't have a good Windows version, and you can't install Sage from the standard repos of your favorite distribution. SageMathCloud overcomes some of these problems by providing an out of the box we interface, but there are still people who want something to install on their hard drive. Especially If they don't want to go online for security reasons, or want to use their own hardware. Additionally it often appears to me that sage lacks of clean design. It seems that all these issues are known, so why do we need a user survey then? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 failed build
I am using a VirtualBox Sage-6.2 and wanted to upgrade sage. It failed trying to build conway_polynomials. [sage@sagevm ~]$ python -m bitset /usr/bin/python: No module named bitset [sage@sagevm ~]$ python -V Python 2.6.6 Thread model: posix gcc version 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-4) (GCC) Traceback (most recent call last): File ./spkg-install, line 4, in module from sage.all import save File /home/sage/sage-6.2/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/all.py, line 87, in module from sage.misc.all import * # takes a while File /home/sage/sage-6.2/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/all.py, line 172, in module from bitset import FrozenBitset, Bitset ImportError: No module named bitset real0m33.122s user0m2.768s sys 0m17.005s Error installing package conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 Please email sage-devel (http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel) explaining the problem and including the relevant part of the log file /home/sage/sage-6.2/logs/pkgs/conway_polynomials-0.4.p0.log -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: Where is the source tarball for Sage 6.2?
Thank's for spotting this, it's yet another inconsistency after splitting this onto the VM. That link should point here: http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/sagemath/www-files/src-old/ -- H On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote: Is there any place where the reasonably-recent Sage source tarballs are stored? http://www.sagemath.org/src-old/ only has the tarballs up to 6.1.1 Jeroen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 failed build
The python used by sage is not the system python. So you should do ./sage -sh in SAGE_ROOT and then try “python -m bitset” François On 8/12/2014, at 18:00, Michael Somos ms...@georgetown.edu wrote: I am using a VirtualBox Sage-6.2 and wanted to upgrade sage. It failed trying to build conway_polynomials. [sage@sagevm ~]$ python -m bitset /usr/bin/python: No module named bitset [sage@sagevm ~]$ python -V Python 2.6.6 Thread model: posix gcc version 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-4) (GCC) Traceback (most recent call last): File ./spkg-install, line 4, in module from sage.all import save File /home/sage/sage-6.2/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/all.py, line 87, in module from sage.misc.all import * # takes a while File /home/sage/sage-6.2/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/all.py, line 172, in module from bitset import FrozenBitset, Bitset ImportError: No module named bitset real0m33.122s user0m2.768s sys 0m17.005s Error installing package conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 Please email sage-devel (http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel) explaining the problem and including the relevant part of the log file /home/sage/sage-6.2/logs/pkgs/conway_polynomials-0.4.p0.log -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 failed build
Hello, bitset is not a Python module. It is now in sage.data_structures and not anymore in sage.misc (since 6.3.beta4, see http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17196). The following works for me sage: from sage.data_structures.bitset import FrozenBitset, Bitset sage: Bitset type 'sage.data_structures.bitset.Bitset' sage: FrozenBitset type 'sage.data_structures.bitset.FrozenBitset' What procedure did you follow to install the package? Vincent 2014-12-08 6:00 UTC+01:00, Michael Somos ms...@georgetown.edu: I am using a VirtualBox Sage-6.2 and wanted to upgrade sage. It failed trying to build conway_polynomials. [sage@sagevm ~]$ python -m bitset /usr/bin/python: No module named bitset [sage@sagevm ~]$ python -V Python 2.6.6 Thread model: posix gcc version 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-4) (GCC) Traceback (most recent call last): File ./spkg-install, line 4, in module from sage.all import save File /home/sage/sage-6.2/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/all.py, line 87, in module from sage.misc.all import * # takes a while File /home/sage/sage-6.2/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/all.py, line 172, in module from bitset import FrozenBitset, Bitset ImportError: No module named bitset real0m33.122s user0m2.768s sys 0m17.005s Error installing package conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 Please email sage-devel (http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel) explaining the problem and including the relevant part of the log file /home/sage/sage-6.2/logs/pkgs/conway_polynomials-0.4.p0.log -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: conway_polynomials-0.4.p0 failed build
On 2014-12-08, Michael Somos ms...@georgetown.edu wrote: I am using a VirtualBox Sage-6.2 and wanted to upgrade sage. What exactly did you do? Did you try to build the current release (6.4.1) from scratch? Something else? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Le vendredi 5 décembre 2014 21:14:54 UTC+1, maldun a écrit : I don't think that the functionality of Sage is the big problem, in fact Sage has a great features for zero cost. Nothing is really free. My estimate for a google search is an energy cost of 16Wh per search (equivalent to 7g CO2). I wonder how much it is for a SMC one-cell computation or a distant sage server one-cell computation. If it's about the same order size, then it's more than a local PC computation (you can run a laptop about 1/4 hour with the same energy) and much more than a calculator computation : you can run a CAS calculator a whole day with 16Wh. If you make 60 distant computations during a lesson, it would cost about 1kWh if my estimate is correct (energy cost for the local terminal not included). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: User Survey
How do you reach your estimate of 16 Wh/Google search ? Any source ? -- Emmanuel Charpentier Le lundi 8 décembre 2014 14:44:55 UTC+1, parisse a écrit : Le vendredi 5 décembre 2014 21:14:54 UTC+1, maldun a écrit : I don't think that the functionality of Sage is the big problem, in fact Sage has a great features for zero cost. Nothing is really free. My estimate for a google search is an energy cost of 16Wh per search (equivalent to 7g CO2). I wonder how much it is for a SMC one-cell computation or a distant sage server one-cell computation. If it's about the same order size, then it's more than a local PC computation (you can run a laptop about 1/4 hour with the same energy) and much more than a calculator computation : you can run a CAS calculator a whole day with 16Wh. If you make 60 distant computations during a lesson, it would cost about 1kWh if my estimate is correct (energy cost for the local terminal not included). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Le lundi 8 décembre 2014 16:24:30 UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier a écrit : How do you reach your estimate of 16 Wh/Google search ? Any source ? In French: http://www.planetoscope.com/electronique/980-emissions-de-co2-par-les-recherches-sur-google.html 7g CO2/request. Google's own published estimates are much lower (0.2g/request), but I'm not sure we can trust them. Google power consumption is 260e6 W according to http://inhabitat.com/infographic-how-much-energy-does-google-use/google-energy-use-infographic-2/ for a little more than 200e6 requests to 1 billion requests per day (who knows), that's 6Wh to a little less than 30Wh per request. Of course Google does more than answering to requests, but one should also take care of all the energy used outside google in the net. Therefore the 16Wh per request estimate is probably in the right range. I'm curious what the estimates would be for a server-centric computing model for teaching. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Hi, On 2014-12-08, parisse bernard.pari...@ujf-grenoble.fr wrote: Le lundi 8 d=C3=A9cembre 2014 16:24:30 UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier a =C3=A9= crit : How do you reach your estimate of 16 Wh/Google search ? Any source ? In French: http://www.planetoscope.com/electronique/980-emissions-de-co2-par-les-reche= rches-sur-google.html 7g CO2/request. Google's own published estimates are much lower (0.2g/request), but I'm not= =20 sure we can trust them.=20 I think it would be fair to compare 16 Wh/Google search with the amount of energy that a human consumes when searching in the library for one hour, walking around carrying heavy books. I guess it would be similar to doing shopping, which is about 60 kcal per 15 minutes according to http://laufleistung.net/kalorienverbrauch-berechnen/. Thus, it is 240 kcal in one hour, which makes about 280 Wh. I don't know how much CO2 a human emmits in one hour. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 8:24 AM, parisse bernard.pari...@ujf-grenoble.fr wrote: Le lundi 8 décembre 2014 16:24:30 UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier a écrit : How do you reach your estimate of 16 Wh/Google search ? Any source ? In French: http://www.planetoscope.com/electronique/980-emissions-de-co2-par-les-recherches-sur-google.html 7g CO2/request. Google's own published estimates are much lower (0.2g/request), but I'm not sure we can trust them. Here is Google's published estimate: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/powering-google-search.html The published estimate ends with The Sunday Times clarified its article on the energy consumed by a Google search, accepting our calculation that a single search accounts for about 0.2g of carbon. Google power consumption is 260e6 W according to http://inhabitat.com/infographic-how-much-energy-does-google-use/google-energy-use-infographic-2/ for a little more than 200e6 requests to 1 billion requests per day (who knows), that's 6Wh to a little less than 30Wh per request. Of course Google does more than answering to requests, but one should also take care of all the energy used outside google in the net. If the question is to compute the energy used per request, it is unfair to compute the energy used by *all* of the internet (the energy used outside google in the net!). That can only give you a very non-tight upper bound. Therefore the 16Wh per request estimate is probably in the right range. I'm curious what the estimates would be for a server-centric computing model for teaching. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Simon King simon.k...@uni-jena.de wrote: Hi, On 2014-12-08, parisse bernard.pari...@ujf-grenoble.fr wrote: Le lundi 8 d=C3=A9cembre 2014 16:24:30 UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier a =C3=A9= crit : How do you reach your estimate of 16 Wh/Google search ? Any source ? In French: http://www.planetoscope.com/electronique/980-emissions-de-co2-par-les-reche= rches-sur-google.html 7g CO2/request. Google's own published estimates are much lower (0.2g/request), but I'm not= =20 sure we can trust them.=20 I think it would be fair to compare 16 Wh/Google search with the amount of energy that a human consumes when searching in the library for one hour, walking around carrying heavy books. I guess it would be similar to doing shopping, which is about 60 kcal per 15 minutes according to http://laufleistung.net/kalorienverbrauch-berechnen/. Thus, it is 240 kcal in one hour, which makes about 280 Wh. I don't know how much CO2 a human emmits in one hour. This is discussed in the link I posted: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/powering-google-search.html which claims a Google search uses just about the same amount of energy that your body burns in ten seconds. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Le lundi 8 décembre 2014 17:56:14 UTC+1, William a écrit : If the question is to compute the energy used per request, it is unfair to compute the energy used by *all* of the internet (the energy used outside google in the net!). That can only give you a very non-tight upper bound. This is clearly not what I mean. If google power consumption is 260MW, in one day that's 260*24e6Wh, if they get 1e9 request (upper bound), that's 6.24Wh per request. Of course, Google does more than requests. But when you do a request to google you are using more power than just Google servers. Therefore I think that 16Wh per request is in the right range. Note that it does not account for the client terminal and for building the infrastructure. But the real question was for the SMC or a server centric install of sage for teaching use, perhaps you have some figures (how many server does one need for how many people). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
From my point of view, the sage-devel list is turning a bit funny. Ok, this is the end of the year but I do not think that people have started to drink (at least, they certainly do not drink in front of their computer). These problems related to energy, ecology, and so on are certainly very interesting (my lab is a member of the association EcoInfo in France, so...). But be careful: people can rapidly decide that a discussion list is polluted, boring, and so on... an finally, leave. This discussion, after the very long and passionate one about the code is a bit strange and certainly hors sujet as we say in French(apologize: I cannot remember how to say it in English). My experience with a list in France devoted to calcul (computations, in the sens of PDE solving and so on) is that, after a lot of unnecessary debates -even interesting-, the only possibility was to put the list under moderation. But ok, I like to read about the watts and computing :-) t.d. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. attachment: tdumont.vcf
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
2014-12-08 19:27 UTC+01:00, Thierry Dumont tdum...@math.univ-lyon1.fr: From my point of view, the sage-devel list is turning a bit funny. Ok, this is the end of the year but I do not think that people have started to drink (at least, they certainly do not drink in front of their computer). These problems related to energy, ecology, and so on are certainly very interesting (my lab is a member of the association EcoInfo in France, so...). But be careful: people can rapidly decide that a discussion list is polluted, boring, and so on... an finally, leave. This discussion, after the very long and passionate one about the code is a bit strange and certainly hors sujet as we say in French(apologize: I cannot remember how to say it in English). +1 (off-topic) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Le lundi 8 décembre 2014 19:27:27 UTC+1, tdumont a écrit : These problems related to energy, ecology, and so on are certainly very interesting (my lab is a member of the association EcoInfo in France, so...). But be careful: people can rapidly decide that a discussion list is polluted, boring, and so on... an finally, leave. I raised the question about energy, because I think it's an important one in choosing between local vs server centric model, a question discussed earlier in this topic (windows version, use outside of research, control of data, we could also add exam). For this reason, I really don't think it's off-topic. I find your reaction a little bit strange, especially your final sentence about moderation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 11:48 AM, parisse bernard.pari...@ujf-grenoble.fr wrote: Le lundi 8 décembre 2014 19:27:27 UTC+1, tdumont a écrit : These problems related to energy, ecology, and so on are certainly very interesting (my lab is a member of the association EcoInfo in France, so...). But be careful: people can rapidly decide that a discussion list is polluted, boring, and so on... an finally, leave. I raised the question about energy, because I think it's an important one in choosing between local vs server centric model, a question discussed earlier in this topic (windows version, use outside of research, control of data, we could also add exam). For this reason, I really don't think it's off-topic. I find your reaction a little bit strange, especially your final sentence about moderation. +1 It's a relevant topic. We're brainstorming for ideas about what to put on various surveys. Asking a question of users about whether they are concerned about energy usage regarding use of Sage is very reasonable. William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Maybe support for arm architecture would be relevant in that respect. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
On Monday, December 8, 2014 9:53:51 PM UTC+1, mmarco wrote: Maybe support for arm architecture would be relevant in that respect. We do support ARM, don't we? At least I'm able to compile Sage from scratch on a Raspberry Pi and on armv7+ as well. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Jean-Pierre Flori jpfl...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, December 8, 2014 9:53:51 PM UTC+1, mmarco wrote: Maybe support for arm architecture would be relevant in that respect. We do support ARM, don't we? At least I'm able to compile Sage from scratch on a Raspberry Pi and on armv7+ as well. Awesome! And yes we do. Again, as this thread is titled User Survey, let's say that the survey question might be: Do you *care* about support for Sage on ARM devices such as Raspberry Pi, etc.? William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: User Survey
Again, as this thread is titled User Survey, let's say that the survey question might be: Do you *care* about support for Sage on ARM devices such as Raspberry Pi, etc.? Or *quick* usage on Internet-enabled devices that may not be able to run Sage very quickly (i.e., continuing updates to the sagecell+Android+iOS app ecosystem). Also, I agree that the energy use this is OT, though maybe not for this thread. Just because we can use technology doesn't mean we shouldn't. I think Sage (or a similar product) is, on the whole, beneficial, but I could imagine those whose analysis went the other way, and finding ways for Sage to use less power or hardware sounds awesome. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
