RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Keith it is true about skinner photographing better. Particularly for photographing clothes. It is probably easier to get a sellable shot with a thin model than a normal sized person or a larger person. That is not putting down the other folks,. you are seeking unnatural circumstances to sell a lie. After working in that industry, I almost never by clothes from catalogs, because I do not know how the outfit really looks on. It does not even usually look good on the skinny model without all the pins in most cases. If you think about it, candid photos to not always show the person looking as good as they do in person, because the camera often distorts. That being said, there is a limit on how skinny you should go. Also, just because skinnier is easier to shoot, it does not mean you should also opt to shoot skinny. Most actresses and actors are not as skinny as models and they work to photograph them in flattering ways. There are ways to work the camera. You have to do it for all sizes of people, so going to the extremes these “trend setters” have opted for is close to criminal in my mind. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Funny thing, i was listening to an interview with Beverly Johnson on NPR's Tell Me More recently. It was the anniversary of her breakthrough appearance on the cover of Vogue. Johnson has a daughter who's a plus-sized model, and wholeheartedly supports her. Yet in the same interview she said The main fashion industry likes slimmer woman, because I'm sorry, clothes just look better on slim women. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:41:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I do think the stick figure is a white guy thing. Not all of them, but too many for my comfort. This new weightlifted emaciated look seems to appeal to more White men than Black or Latino as well. Where I live, Asians and Indians are almost the majority. From what I can see, some of them may like slender, but I do not see any with stick figures either. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:59 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Wow, you need to write some memoirs! I didn't know all this! Not to get racial here--and apologies to my white brothers (to co-opt Cornell West), but I notice more white men who go for the look of Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Anniston, Paris Hilton, etc. I know very few black or Latino men--even younger ones--who say they prefer really thin women. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:37:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I worked as a stylist on the set a few times, as well as a model. The clothes do lay easier on a thinner model than a normal sized model, but the whole photographing process is about illusion, NOT reality. The purpose is to sell a lie. It is easier to make cheap poorly constructed clothes look better on them. I used to model in those clothing catalogs. The clothes fit horribly on all of us. BUT the stylist comes to the set with clothes pins and needles and makes them formfitting. Then they contort us in specific poses to make the clothes look better. Then the photographer does his thing with lighting and shadows……and the next thing you know, we look perfect and women are wondering why the clothes look better on us then them. The reality is we didn’t.It is false advertising. This illusion works on everyone, but best on the real skinny models IMO. Ironically, I was considered a little voluptuous at 115 and 34B at the time. Because of that, I got work doing bathing suits, Calvin Kline underwear and lingerie. I look at old pictures now, I while I do not see skinny, I do see slender… NOT voluptuous. I never got into the serious diet thing and I used to beat myself up for it. Looking back, I am relieved. Now on a separate issue, if you go on the boards sometimes like on imdb and you see the commentary by men about the female stars, I significant number like that skinny look. Why is Brad with Angelina, Harrison with Calista and a host of others. It is a specific taste that some straight men have. I’ve seen guys call women I think are hot, fat. On that note, they are not men I want anything to do with, nor do I want my daughter near them. Supposedly, these guys are straight. I do not know, if they have a daddy thing going on, it makes them feel my potent and stronger, or what, but there are men who like that. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:42 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I hear you, I understand how skinnier may be easier to photograph, and easier to work with from a technical side. It must be me, 'cause this week I've all but slobbered over Sheri Sheppard on her show (the Sister loves sweaters), Sofia Vergara (do they intentionally dress her in clothes that are crying too tight!?) It's just for me, when I say a shapely voluptuous woman modeling clothes, I'm far more attracted to her and the clothing than when it's a skinny woman. Guess it's my time, culture, and place of upbringing. Indeed, Phyllis will tell you that I often look at women modeling clothing on TV or and mags and say That dress would like a lot better on a woman who isn't so thin. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:01:14 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Keith it is true about skinner photographing better. Particularly for photographing clothes. It is probably easier to get a sellable shot with a thin model than a normal sized person or a larger person. That is not putting down the other folks,. you are seeking unnatural circumstances to sell a lie. After working in that industry, I almost never by clothes from catalogs, because I do not know how the outfit really looks on. It does not even usually look good on the skinny model without all the pins in most cases. If you think about it, candid photos to not always show the person looking as good as they do in person, because the camera often distorts. That being said, there is a limit on how skinny you should go. Also, just because skinnier is easier to shoot, it does not mean you should also opt to shoot skinny. Most actresses and actors are not as skinny as models and they work to photograph them in flattering ways. There are ways to work the camera. You have to do it for all sizes of people, so going to the extremes these “trend setters” have opted for is close to criminal in my mind. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:53 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Funny thing, i was listening to an interview with Beverly Johnson on NPR's Tell Me More recently. It was the anniversary of her breakthrough appearance on the cover of Vogue. Johnson has a daughter who's a plus-sized model, and wholeheartedly supports her. Yet in the same interview she said The main fashion industry likes slimmer woman, because I'm sorry, clothes just look better on slim women. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:41:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J . I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I think there is some pushback too. And not just among the size of women, but with the fascination with blondes as the standard of beauty. When it comes to non-Black women, I'm more attracted to brunettes and redheads. Not that there aren't some gorgeous blondes, but the darker-haired and hued women attract me. I've noticed in the last few years there's been a noticeable uptick in the number of brunette Caucasian women being put on shows from the new 90210 to Modern Family, to Stargate Atlantis (the gorgeous Morena Baccarin, who used to be on Serenity). That's one thing at least I will give to the Meagan Fox craze: nice to see a brunette being fawned over again! Interesting bit of trivia: Colombian Sofia Vergara is actually a natural blonde! But she's usually asked to dye her hair a dark black because it looks more Latin. After years of watching all those bottle blonde women speaking Spanish on Univision and Telemundo, how refreshing to see the script flipped! - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:28:11 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I agree with you, but I think a little push back is taking hold. For instance, Scarlett Johansson, Kate Winslet, the woman on Dollhouse, that Secretary on Mad Men. . Some of the female stars of TV shows are permitted to be a bit bigger than I believe that would have been in the past. Examples include Medium, Rita Rocks, Sherry and some star of some show on lifetime who was skinny and died and woke up in a fat girls body. That being said, I think all it will amount to is tokenism. It will never be the trend any time soon. However, thanks to Monsanto, and increasingly in industrialized countries around the world, women are getting bigger. So, I am noticing bigger women in commercials who would never be in commercials in the past. They are possible coming to terms with a new bigger demographic. That is also why women’s close sizes are getting smaller. So the large number of big women will feel normal. Hail Frankenfood! What a horrible solution to Lagerfeld and Ralph Lauren From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:41 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? That won't happen because the super thin women is ingrained into the minds of the people that control the industry. So what was considered thin is the new fat, and what was healthy is now the new obese. I am glad that there was a little bit of sanity that stopped people from going over the edge though. When people like Allie MacBeal and had to be hospitalized people said ok, that is too skinny! Skeletor's girlfriend or something. Waking death just isn't cute or sexy. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: My wife says the same thing about a little weight going a long way. She's only 5'1, and often complains I don't get it because I'm 6'1--and a man. The funny thing is, this model looks better to me in shots where she's obviously gained a bit of weight over older shots. And to your point, I just see it as her getting back up to slim, not even close to fat. A couple of years ago I read an article about Scarlett Johannsen in one of my wife's magazines. The writer--a man--said that she was a pretty woman, and then added she works with her size. There were other words, but the guy's point was obviously that she was borderline too big. I remember being surprised. I'm still not sure how the desired female body type in America changed. When I was a kid it was those curvy women I mentioned. Sure, people liked Twiggy, Mary Tyler Moore in her capri pants was a cool thing. But men and women also sang the praises of the likes of Marilyn Monroe. Now it's weird. Maybe it's slowly changing back? At least, I've noticed that brunette actresses and models seem to be making a resurgence, so maybe the fuller figured women will come back too? - Original Message - From: Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:21:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Yeah, I think in the main, black and Latino mean like curvier, fuller-figured women. Another thing that may help the perception of female beauty change: the entre of black women more into the mainstream. While we still have some issues with skin color and size, there are black women getting accepted--or at least becoming famous--which helps change the popular (white) culture's assessment of what is beautiful. Beyonce Knowles, for example, sports the long hair and isn't dark skinned, true. But she also has legs that are bigger than just about any white female singer you see, which helps a bit. Then there are the Williams sisters, both dark-skinned, and Serena an amazing combination of curvy and muscular. Women like Sheri Shephard getting their own shows will hopefully help. And of course we can't overestimate the change Michelle Obama and her daughters are making. Although Mrs. Obama is a slim woman, she's got that black booty! And she's dark skinned. I read that within a month of Obama taking office, people who work with children models were desperate to find young black girl models who *weren't* really light skinned. That's a good thing. So maybe as y'all gain more ascendancy, not just in dance, singing, or modeling, but in politics, business, etc., the mainstream will start realizing that beauty is more than blonde and skinny. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:06:55 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I do think the stick figure is a white guy thing. Not all of them, but too many for my comfort. This new weightlifted emaciated look seems to appeal to more White men than Black or Latino as well. Where I live, Asians and Indians are almost the majority. From what I can see, some of them may like slender, but I do not see any with stick figures either. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:59 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Wow, you need to write some memoirs! I didn't know all this! Not to get racial here--and apologies to my white brothers (to co-opt Cornell West), but I notice more white men who go for the look of Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Anniston, Paris Hilton, etc. I know very few black or Latino men--even younger ones--who say they prefer really thin women. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:37:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I worked as a stylist on the set a few times, as well as a model. The clothes do lay easier on a thinner model than a normal sized model, but the whole photographing process is about illusion, NOT reality. The purpose is to sell a lie. It is easier to make cheap poorly constructed clothes look better on them. I used to model in those clothing catalogs. The clothes fit horribly on all of us. BUT the stylist comes to the set with clothes pins and needles and makes them formfitting. Then they contort us in specific poses to make the clothes look better. Then the photographer does his thing with lighting and shadows……and the next thing you know, we look perfect and women are wondering why the clothes look better on us then them. The reality is we didn’t. It is false advertising. This illusion works on everyone, but best on the real skinny models IMO. Ironically, I was considered a little voluptuous at 115 and 34B at the time. Because of that, I got work doing bathing suits, Calvin Kline underwear and lingerie. I look at old pictures now, I while I do not see skinny, I do see slender… NOT voluptuous. I never got into the serious diet thing and I used to beat myself up for it. Looking back, I am relieved. Now on a separate issue, if you go on the boards sometimes like on imdb and you see the commentary by men about the female stars, I significant number like that skinny look. Why is Brad with Angelina, Harrison with Calista and a host of others. It is a specific taste that some straight men have. I’ve seen guys call women I think are hot, fat. On that note, they are not men I want anything to do with, nor do I want my daughter near them. Supposedly, these guys are straight. I do not know, if they have a daddy thing going on, it makes them feel my potent and stronger, or what, but there are men who like that. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:42 PM
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Yeah I get all that, guess it's just good that fashion doesn't depend on my tastes! I've listened to Shepard many times on The View. She was raised in a fairly conservative background, and it shows. But you know what? I like her, and I haven't given up on her. For one thing, unlike militant conservative Elizabeth Hasselbeck, Shepard isn't mean or malicious. She isn't given to attacking other people who disagree with her, and, even when she's a bit stubborn, it seems more defensive than combative. She made some crazy comments, but she was new to that type of show, and I can see her saying nutty stuff out of sheer nerves, especially when two or three accomplished people confront her. Again, at least she's not like hasslebeck or the unlamented Rosie O'Donnell, who both fight like pitbulls when challenged. And I also give her credit for admitting that there's a lot she doesn't know. When Obama was running, she became very excited about the election, and started looking into the issues and examining candidates for the first time in her life. I was encouraged that she actually thought about her decision, rather than just voting based on emotion. It was actually kinda cool to see the innocent look of excitement on her face as she got further into the election process. She strikes me as a nice person who has been focused more on life and family than broader issues, but is realizing she should do more, and I respect that she is doing something about it. She may be naive, even ignorant of some things, but at least she's not truly narrow-minded like the Palin crowd. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:46:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Here is one benefit. How the clothes look on the model is everything to the manufacturer or retailer. Most of the clothes will not fit any body type right. If the model is too small, you can pin, pad, or stuff. If the model is too big for the outfit, you cannot do anything. Also not all clothes are made for all body types. For instance, Sheri Shepard has a wide waist so things that accent her waist will not look great on her, unless attention is drawn to her breasts-which is not always possible if the outfit is not designed that way On a skinny woman with the same waist issue, it would be less noticeable. It is not really hard to dress for body type, but when you are selling clothes, the idea is to find the right body type for the clothes. Sheri does look way better since she lost weight. I always liked her up until she got on the View, but her views on there not being evolution and the world being flat make her difficult to like. I wish she had stuck to acting so I would not have to hear her backwards opinions in my head when she is playing a role From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:37 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I hear you, I understand how skinnier may be easier to photograph, and easier to work with from a technical side. It must be me, 'cause this week I've all but slobbered over Sheri Sheppard on her show (the Sister loves sweaters), Sofia Vergara (do they intentionally dress her in clothes that are crying too tight!?) It's just for me, when I say a shapely voluptuous woman modeling clothes, I'm far more attracted to her and the clothing than when it's a skinny woman. Guess it's my time, culture, and place of upbringing. Indeed, Phyllis will tell you that I often look at women modeling clothing on TV or and mags and say That dress would like a lot better on a woman who isn't so thin. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:01:14 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Keith it is true about skinner photographing better. Particularly for photographing clothes. It is probably easier to get a sellable shot with a thin model than a normal sized person or a larger person. That is not putting down the other folks,. you are seeking unnatural circumstances to sell a lie. After working in that industry, I almost never by clothes from catalogs, because I do not know how the outfit really looks on. It does not even usually look good on the skinny model without all the pins in most cases. If you think about it, candid photos to not always show the person looking as good as they do in person, because the camera often distorts. That being said
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I do not watch the view much. Actually, the only time I see it is when something outrageous and they show clips on TV. I agree with your assessment. It probably is not fair, but when she says something dumb, it is really dumb and it makes me cringe, and it my view makes Blacks look like idiots. Like I said, it is not fair, but that’s how it makes me feel From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:38 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Yeah I get all that, guess it's just good that fashion doesn't depend on my tastes! I've listened to Shepard many times on The View. She was raised in a fairly conservative background, and it shows. But you know what? I like her, and I haven't given up on her. For one thing, unlike militant conservative Elizabeth Hasselbeck, Shepard isn't mean or malicious. She isn't given to attacking other people who disagree with her, and, even when she's a bit stubborn, it seems more defensive than combative. She made some crazy comments, but she was new to that type of show, and I can see her saying nutty stuff out of sheer nerves, especially when two or three accomplished people confront her. Again, at least she's not like hasslebeck or the unlamented Rosie O'Donnell, who both fight like pitbulls when challenged. And I also give her credit for admitting that there's a lot she doesn't know. When Obama was running, she became very excited about the election, and started looking into the issues and examining candidates for the first time in her life. I was encouraged that she actually thought about her decision, rather than just voting based on emotion. It was actually kinda cool to see the innocent look of excitement on her face as she got further into the election process. She strikes me as a nice person who has been focused more on life and family than broader issues, but is realizing she should do more, and I respect that she is doing something about it. She may be naive, even ignorant of some things, but at least she's not truly narrow-minded like the Palin crowd. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:46:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Here is one benefit. How the clothes look on the model is everything to the manufacturer or retailer. Most of the clothes will not fit any body type right. If the model is too small, you can pin, pad, or stuff. If the model is too big for the outfit, you cannot do anything. Also not all clothes are made for all body types. For instance, Sheri Shepard has a wide waist so things that accent her waist will not look great on her, unless attention is drawn to her breasts-which is not always possible if the outfit is not designed that way On a skinny woman with the same waist issue, it would be less noticeable. It is not really hard to dress for body type, but when you are selling clothes, the idea is to find the right body type for the clothes. Sheri does look way better since she lost weight. I always liked her up until she got on the View, but her views on there not being evolution and the world being flat make her difficult to like. I wish she had stuck to acting so I would not have to hear her backwards opinions in my head when she is playing a role From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:37 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I hear you, I understand how skinnier may be easier to photograph, and easier to work with from a technical side. It must be me, 'cause this week I've all but slobbered over Sheri Sheppard on her show (the Sister loves sweaters), Sofia Vergara (do they intentionally dress her in clothes that are crying too tight!?) It's just for me, when I say a shapely voluptuous woman modeling clothes, I'm far more attracted to her and the clothing than when it's a skinny woman. Guess it's my time, culture, and place of upbringing. Indeed, Phyllis will tell you that I often look at women modeling clothing on TV or and mags and say That dress would like a lot better on a woman who isn't so thin. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:01:14 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Keith it is true about skinner photographing better. Particularly
[scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a model in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going forward will take every precaution to ensure that the caliber of our artwork represents our brand appropriately. Unfortunately,addressing the problem may have included firing the model, 23-year-old Filippa Hamilton. She is 5'10 and weighs 120 pounds--clearly more full-bodied than the photoshopped girl we see in the advertisement. Though Hamilton has modeled for Ralph Lauren since she was 15, the company let her go as a result of her inability to meet the obligations under her contract with us. But the story gets worse: Hamilton says she was let go because she'd become too fat to model for them. They fired me because they said I was overweight and I couldn't fit in their clothes anymore, she explained. I was shocked to see that super skinny girl with my face...It's very sad, I think, that Ralph Lauren could do something like that. Filippa Hamilton in a past Ralph Lauren ad Filippa Hamilton in a past Ralph Lauren ad Most of us know that a tall, young woman who weighs 120 pounds is not overweight. But Hamilton claims Ralph Lauren was dissatisfied with her body, and therefore fired her six months ago. However, the company continued to use her image, whittling down her arms, waist, thighs, and possibly several other body parts in the above ad. If they were so unhappy with how she looked, why not get another model for the campaign? Why use the photos and alter and distort them? Today, Ralph Lauren himself is distancing himself from the ad, claiming, The image in question was mistakenly released and used in a department store in Japan and was not the approved image which ran in the U.S. So we're confused. They say the photoshopping was an error, that Hamilton is beautiful and healthy, yet they allegedly fired her for her size? With all these apologies and statements it sounds like the brand still has yet to accept responsibility for their actions. Hamilton in Italian Elle Hamilton in Italian Elle Hamilton in French Vogue Hamilton in French Vogue When I searched for more images of Filippa Hamilton, I instantly remembered her—she was the face of Ralph Lauren's fragrance, Romance, has been featured on the cover of international editions of Vogue and Elle, and has appeared in many ads. She's a gorgeous woman. I think they [Ralph Lauren] owe American women an apology, a big apology, says Hamilton. I'm very proud of what I look like, and I think a role model should look healthy. The truth is,
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
As a former model, this disgusts me. When people ask me how to get their kids in the industry, I tell them, but tell them the ugly side with the hope that they will opt not to get their children involved. While my daughter has the looks, she does not take instruction well. Can’t figure out where she gets her stubbornness “she says scratching her head” I’m glad in a way because it prevents me from being tempted to take the showbiz mom route. What they do to these kids and women is horrible. What is more disturbing to me is that there are men that prefer the Alli Mc Beal types. That does not help matters From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:22 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/vu7vD17UuinS/photos/597ce10efef7ea981abcc5e023c89874/mr_b5fda2fd46300c.jpg?ug_D.b5bBnGG photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph http://shine.yahoo.com/event/fallbeauty/image-of-ultra-thin-ralph-lauren-model-sparks-outrage-521480/ Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a model in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going forward will take every precaution to ensure that the caliber of our artwork represents our brand appropriately. Unfortunately,addressing the problem may have included firing the model, 23-year-old Filippa Hamilton. She is 5'10 and weighs 120 pounds--clearly more full-bodied than the photoshopped girl we see in the advertisement. Though Hamilton has modeled for Ralph Lauren since she was 15, the company let her go as a result of her inability to meet the obligations under her contract with us. But the story gets worse: Hamilton says she was let go because she'd become too fat to model for them. They fired me because they said I was overweight and I couldn't fit in their clothes anymore, she explained. I was shocked to see that super skinny girl with my face...It's very sad, I think, that Ralph Lauren could do something like that. Filippa Hamilton in a past Ralph Lauren ad http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/QnN_NrSbXFLk/photos/434d36deb4d4d3a146f7af8eb1e62295/mr_83d94ea74bc024.jpg?ug_D_al.SAiq Filippa Hamilton in a past Ralph Lauren ad Most of us know that a tall, young woman who weighs 120 pounds is not overweight. But Hamilton claims Ralph Lauren was dissatisfied with her body, and therefore fired her six months ago. However, the company continued to use her image, whittling down her arms
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.netwrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? [image: photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com] photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a modelhttp://shine.yahoo.com/event/fallbeauty/image-of-ultra-thin-ralph-lauren-model-sparks-outrage-521480/in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going forward will take every precaution to ensure that the caliber of our artwork represents our brand appropriately. Unfortunately,addressing the problem may have included firing the model, 23-year-old Filippa Hamilton. She is 5'10 and weighs 120 pounds--clearly more full-bodied than the photoshopped girl we see in the advertisement. Though Hamilton has modeled for Ralph Lauren since she was 15, the company let her go as a result of her inability to meet the obligations under her contract with us. But the story gets worse: Hamilton says she was let go because she'd become too fat to model for them. They fired me because they said I was overweight and I couldn't fit in their clothes anymore, she explained. I was shocked to see that super skinny girl with my face...It's very sad, I think, that Ralph Lauren could do something like that. [image: Filippa Hamilton in a past Ralph Lauren ad] Filippa Hamilton in a past Ralph Lauren ad Most of us know that a tall, young woman who weighs 120 pounds is not overweight. But Hamilton claims Ralph Lauren was dissatisfied with her body, and therefore fired her six months ago. However, the company continued to use her image, whittling down her arms, waist, thighs, and possibly several other body parts in the above ad. If they were so unhappy with how she looked, why not get another model for the campaign? Why use the photos and alter and distort them? Today, Ralph Lauren
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Here something weird, I was 115 at 5'7' for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much-unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 - 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-mode l-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/vu7vD17UuinS/photos/597ce10efef7ea981abcc5e02 3c89874/mr_b5fda2fd46300c.jpg?ug_D.b5bBnGG photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an http://shine.yahoo.com/event/fallbeauty/image-of-ultra-thin-ralph-lauren-mo del-sparks-outrage-521480/ extremely altered photo of a model in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going forward will take every precaution to ensure that the caliber of our artwork represents our brand appropriately. Unfortunately,addressing the problem may have included firing the model, 23-year-old Filippa Hamilton. She is 5'10 and weighs 120 pounds--clearly more full-bodied than the photoshopped girl we see in the advertisement. Though Hamilton has modeled for Ralph Lauren since she was 15, the company let her go as a result of her inability to meet the obligations under her contract with us. But the story gets worse: Hamilton says she was let go because she'd
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Adrianne Brennan *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? [image: photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com] photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a modelhttp://shine.yahoo.com/event/fallbeauty/image-of-ultra-thin-ralph-lauren-model-sparks-outrage-521480/in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I agree, it seems to be an ugly industry. How did you survive it? I just find the change in desire of body types interesting. Back in the 50s and 60s, it was much more curvy women that were desired (at least, by certain groups' standards). I remember watching those corny beach movies with Frankie Avalon just so I could sneak a peek at Annette Funicello. She'd be considered overweight nowadays. And Sophia Loren? They'd have her on a restrictive diet so fast her head would spend. My wife tells me that Jennifer Aniston was ordered to lose weight when she was on Friends. Note that all the women on that show got significantly thinner over the years. As I was reading your response earlier, i was watching the new ABC sitcom Modern Family. Not only is it for my money the best new show of the season (hilarious!), but one of the stars is Sofia Vergara. Staring at--er, watching--her, I can't imagine how anyone could prefer a pencil thin model! - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:05:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? As a former model, this disgusts me. When people ask me how to get their kids in the industry, I tell them, but tell them the ugly side with the hope that they will opt not to get their children involved. While my daughter has the looks, she does not take instruction well. Can’t figure out where she gets her stubbornness “she says scratching her head” I’m glad in a way because it prevents me from being tempted to take the showbiz mom route. What they do to these kids and women is horrible. What is more disturbing to me is that there are men that prefer the Alli Mc Beal types. That does not help matters From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:22 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a model in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going forward will take every precaution to ensure that the caliber of our artwork represents our brand appropriately. Unfortunately,addressing the problem may have included firing the model, 23-year-old Filippa Hamilton. She is 5'10 and weighs 120 pounds--clearly more full-bodied than
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
My wife says the same thing about a little weight going a long way. She's only 5'1, and often complains I don't get it because I'm 6'1--and a man. The funny thing is, this model looks better to me in shots where she's obviously gained a bit of weight over older shots. And to your point, I just see it as her getting back up to slim, not even close to fat. A couple of years ago I read an article about Scarlett Johannsen in one of my wife's magazines. The writer--a man--said that she was a pretty woman, and then added she works with her size. There were other words, but the guy's point was obviously that she was borderline too big. I remember being surprised. I'm still not sure how the desired female body type in America changed. When I was a kid it was those curvy women I mentioned. Sure, people liked Twiggy, Mary Tyler Moore in her capri pants was a cool thing. But men and women also sang the praises of the likes of Marilyn Monroe. Now it's weird. Maybe it's slowly changing back? At least, I've noticed that brunette actresses and models seem to be making a resurgence, so maybe the fuller figured women will come back too? - Original Message - From: Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:21:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a model in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net posted the image online, and lawyers for Ralph Lauren attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Unfortunately for Ralph Lauren, this only furthered public interest and outrage over the dangerously thin looking model and, eventually, the clothing company released this apology: For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body. We have addressed the problem and going forward will take every precaution to ensure that the caliber of our artwork represents our
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
That won't happen because the super thin women is ingrained into the minds of the people that control the industry. So what was considered thin is the new fat, and what was healthy is now the new obese. I am glad that there was a little bit of sanity that stopped people from going over the edge though. When people like Allie MacBeal and had to be hospitalized people said ok, that is too skinny! Skeletor's girlfriend or something. Waking death just isn't cute or sexy. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.netwrote: My wife says the same thing about a little weight going a long way. She's only 5'1, and often complains I don't get it because I'm 6'1--and a man. The funny thing is, this model looks better to me in shots where she's obviously gained a bit of weight over older shots. And to your point, I just see it as her getting back up to slim, not even close to fat. A couple of years ago I read an article about Scarlett Johannsen in one of my wife's magazines. The writer--a man--said that she was a pretty woman, and then added she works with her size. There were other words, but the guy's point was obviously that she was borderline too big. I remember being surprised. I'm still not sure how the desired female body type in America changed. When I was a kid it was those curvy women I mentioned. Sure, people liked Twiggy, Mary Tyler Moore in her capri pants was a cool thing. But men and women also sang the praises of the likes of Marilyn Monroe. Now it's weird. Maybe it's slowly changing back? At least, I've noticed that brunette actresses and models seem to be making a resurgence, so maybe the fuller figured women will come back too? - Original Message - From: Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:21:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.netwrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? [image: photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com] photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a modelhttp://shine.yahoo.com/event/fallbeauty/image-of-ultra-thin-ralph-lauren-model-sparks-outrage-521480/in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website BoingBoing.net
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I worked as a stylist on the set a few times, as well as a model. The clothes do lay easier on a thinner model than a normal sized model, but the whole photographing process is about illusion, NOT reality. The purpose is to sell a lie. It is easier to make cheap poorly constructed clothes look better on them. I used to model in those clothing catalogs. The clothes fit horribly on all of us. BUT the stylist comes to the set with clothes pins and needles and makes them formfitting. Then they contort us in specific poses to make the clothes look better. Then the photographer does his thing with lighting and shadows……and the next thing you know, we look perfect and women are wondering why the clothes look better on us then them. The reality is we didn’t.It is false advertising. This illusion works on everyone, but best on the real skinny models IMO. Ironically, I was considered a little voluptuous at 115 and 34B at the time. Because of that, I got work doing bathing suits, Calvin Kline underwear and lingerie. I look at old pictures now, I while I do not see skinny, I do see slender… NOT voluptuous. I never got into the serious diet thing and I used to beat myself up for it. Looking back, I am relieved. Now on a separate issue, if you go on the boards sometimes like on imdb and you see the commentary by men about the female stars, I significant number like that skinny look. Why is Brad with Angelina, Harrison with Calista and a host of others. It is a specific taste that some straight men have. I’ve seen guys call women I think are hot, fat. On that note, they are not men I want anything to do with, nor do I want my daughter near them. Supposedly, these guys are straight. I do not know, if they have a daddy thing going on, it makes them feel my potent and stronger, or what, but there are men who like that. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:42 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Tracey, I'm not surprised at all. Just out of curiosity, was the attention you started getting more from black, Latino, or white guys? I'm always fascinated at how men of different cultures and ethnicities view beauty. The old wisdom was that black and Latino men definitely tend to prefer curvier women. That is by no means the truth all the time, but I just wonder. I notice that when my wife and I are out (she's very curvy, and would kill me for saying that!) she gets more looks from black and Mexican men. Quite a few from white men, but not as much. Almost always from European guys--at least, I've caught a few Spaniards and Italians trying to mack her in the diary case while I was around the corner. The sad thing is, it's not even about slim or thin women not being attractive. Beauty comes in all sizes, and slim women can be as beautiful as anyone else. Charlize Theron is very slim, and gorgeous. Same for Rosalyn Sanchez, Terry Ferrell (Dax from DS9). It's just the push to make dangerously thin women the standard of beauty in the fashion and movie industries that bothers me. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:44:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J . I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Funny thing, i was listening to an interview with Beverly Johnson on NPR's Tell Me More recently. It was the anniversary of her breakthrough appearance on the cover of Vogue. Johnson has a daughter who's a plus-sized model, and wholeheartedly supports her. Yet in the same interview she said The main fashion industry likes slimmer woman, because I'm sorry, clothes just look better on slim women. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:41:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J . I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces (the Queen Latifah's of the world notwithstanding) As a black man over 40, raised to think a good body was represented by the likes of Nichele Nichols, Chaka Khan, Pam Grier, Sophia Loren, or Racquel Welch, i guess I'll never understand how voluptuous can either be a dirty word, or applied to someone as relatively slim as Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer. I do know it must be crazy to be a woman trying to survive in the fashion or movie industries as long as this skewed view of beauty persists. No wonder so many models are anorexic and addicted to amphetamines! Remember back when TV Guide grafted Oprah Winfrey's head onto Ann Margaret's body? Man, do we ever see anyone as they really are anymore? ** http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/was-the-photoshopped-ralph-lauren-model-fired-for-being-overweight-525248/ Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com Last week Ralph Lauren came under fire for (what looked to be) an extremely altered photo of a model in one of its ads. Bloggers at the website
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Wow, you need to write some memoirs! I didn't know all this! Not to get racial here--and apologies to my white brothers (to co-opt Cornell West), but I notice more white men who go for the look of Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Anniston, Paris Hilton, etc. I know very few black or Latino men--even younger ones--who say they prefer really thin women. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:37:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I worked as a stylist on the set a few times, as well as a model. The clothes do lay easier on a thinner model than a normal sized model, but the whole photographing process is about illusion, NOT reality. The purpose is to sell a lie. It is easier to make cheap poorly constructed clothes look better on them. I used to model in those clothing catalogs. The clothes fit horribly on all of us. BUT the stylist comes to the set with clothes pins and needles and makes them formfitting. Then they contort us in specific poses to make the clothes look better. Then the photographer does his thing with lighting and shadows……and the next thing you know, we look perfect and women are wondering why the clothes look better on us then them. The reality is we didn’t. It is false advertising. This illusion works on everyone, but best on the real skinny models IMO. Ironically, I was considered a little voluptuous at 115 and 34B at the time. Because of that, I got work doing bathing suits, Calvin Kline underwear and lingerie. I look at old pictures now, I while I do not see skinny, I do see slender… NOT voluptuous. I never got into the serious diet thing and I used to beat myself up for it. Looking back, I am relieved. Now on a separate issue, if you go on the boards sometimes like on imdb and you see the commentary by men about the female stars, I significant number like that skinny look. Why is Brad with Angelina, Harrison with Calista and a host of others. It is a specific taste that some straight men have. I’ve seen guys call women I think are hot, fat. On that note, they are not men I want anything to do with, nor do I want my daughter near them. Supposedly, these guys are straight. I do not know, if they have a daddy thing going on, it makes them feel my potent and stronger, or what, but there are men who like that. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:42 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J . I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
Sometimes it depends on the guy that you hear the comments from. For example, Howard Stern (remember him? He seems to slowly disappearing) was a big critic. He would do beauty contests and weigh women on his show. Most were average weight, others he would tell them that they would look hotter if they lost 20lbs. Most of the time I found his comments off base, but for modeling that would be the norm. BBC America did a show on seeking size 0. They hired two female reporters that were already small to try to loose weight down to a size 0. I won't give it away but it is very interesting. Check it out if you have the opportunity. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: I worked as a stylist on the set a few times, as well as a model. The clothes do lay easier on a thinner model than a normal sized model, but the whole photographing process is about illusion, NOT reality. The purpose is to sell a lie. It is easier to make cheap poorly constructed clothes look better on them. I used to model in those clothing catalogs. The clothes fit horribly on all of us. BUT the stylist comes to the set with clothes pins and needles and makes them formfitting. Then they contort us in specific poses to make the clothes look better. Then the photographer does his thing with lighting and shadows……and the next thing you know, we look perfect and women are wondering why the clothes look better on us then them. The reality is we didn’t.It is false advertising. This illusion works on everyone, but best on the real skinny models IMO. Ironically, I was considered a little voluptuous at 115 and 34B at the time. Because of that, I got work doing bathing suits, Calvin Kline underwear and lingerie. I look at old pictures now, I while I do not see skinny, I do see slender… NOT voluptuous. I never got into the serious diet thing and I used to beat myself up for it. Looking back, I am relieved. Now on a separate issue, if you go on the boards sometimes like on imdb and you see the commentary by men about the female stars, I significant number like that skinny look. Why is Brad with Angelina, Harrison with Calista and a host of others. It is a specific taste that some straight men have. I’ve seen guys call women I think are hot, fat. On that note, they are not men I want anything to do with, nor do I want my daughter near them. Supposedly, these guys are straight. I do not know, if they have a daddy thing going on, it makes them feel my potent and stronger, or what, but there are men who like that. *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Worf *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:42 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Real men like curves. This sounds extremely homophobic but, most of the guys that do fashion like boys so I think it comes out subconsciously in their model choices. You choose what is attractive to you. So often they pick models that are completely featureless. This has been more apparent when you compare models of 20 years ago to the super skinny ones today. For example, Christie Brinkley, or Beverly Johnson would probably be considered too fat and too pretty now. (depending on which part of the world it is.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com wrote: Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Adrianne Brennan *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
MY DAD! He hated that I went into it, but unlike my mom, who disowned me for it, and inadvertently, pushed me back in to it when I was about to give it up.He was smart, by supporting me and being my advocate, along with the fact that I looked like jail bait, he was able to protect me. At 18, when I pulled out my NYC map, and told my father I was taking the train from philly to nyc to do the interviews with the big agencies, instead of saying, no, he drove me up there and sat in the car as I went from agency to agency that whole first day. From then on, I was required to give him my go-see or photoshoot schedule everyday and call him at designated times. He encouraged me to tell the people I met with that I had to call him and ask to use their phones . I commuted to NY from Philly for the first few years. He had me call him every morning from the train station when I arrived in NY and I had to called him to let him know what train I was getting on when I was coming home Another reason, I think I survived was because, I do not think I wanted it bad enough. I wanted to show my mother that she couldn’t control me more that I wanted to be famous. Deep down, I wanted to be like her and own my own business. So, when it came time to do the casting couch thing, either the men having a fear of my Dad, who I had to check in with several times a day, or the threat of not being a star not working, or me not needing a father figure, probably caused me to blow a huge number of casting couch “opportunities.” All my friends had boyfriends who “kept” them, I had boyfriends who could barely afford their car, or had to get to class. I dated guys they were real smart and I liked them in my own age group. So, my boyfriends tended not to be rich like most models. They tended to be geeks. I had a friend who I thought was gorgeous. Around Christmas once she called me devastated because her boyfriend got her a nose job for Christmas she did not ask for nor want, nor up until then, think she needed – at least up until that point. I think there was a lot of remaking going on with models and their “boyfriends”. I guess I was a horrible friend, because I always told them to dump them and move back home. That is not the root to stardom. What happened to Vanessa Williams with the photos, could have happened to me a few times. In the eighties/nineties nudity and showing pubic hair were not considered artistic like now. I did underwear, sheer coverings, and other camoflague covering, but no nudes. Another old fart tried to molest me, but I told him I was sixteen, and my dad was waiting for me and would come looking and he let me go. During the promotion of my rap album at a new music conference. I caught a lot of flack from my producer because I would not take the pills they kept trying to give me “to relax.” They complained that I did not trust their judgement. I would not drink any liquor, and I never drank my drink if I left it unattended whenever I was with them. Again my dad, being in my ear gently guiding let me to make safer choices than many out there on their own. A few other scary incidents occurred, but I think my system with my dad, protected me from getting hurt. One guy told me I had what it took to make it big, but if I did not play by the rules, I would never make it beyond mediocre. I do not know if I could have made it big, but I certainly would has gone much further than I did. He was right about the mediocrity. But, it was my decision, not someone controlling me. Most of the people I met that did play by the rule(not all) did not end up so great. Even some who made it further than I did, did not end up so great. Maintaining long term success in that arena is hard to achieve. Anyway, I’m s very lucky I had my dad, so I was able to come out of the experience with a more positive outlook than negative. The daily grind of just working among the mediocre was fun and nonthreatening. By the way, I think we should all want to be as hot as Sophia From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:13 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? I agree, it seems to be an ugly industry. How did you survive it? I just find the change in desire of body types interesting. Back in the 50s and 60s, it was much more curvy women that were desired (at least, by certain groups' standards). I remember watching those corny beach movies with Frankie Avalon just so I could sneak a peek at Annette Funicello. She'd be considered overweight nowadays. And Sophia Loren? They'd have her on a restrictive diet so fast her head would spend. My wife tells me that Jennifer Aniston was ordered to lose weight when she
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
I agree with you, but I think a little push back is taking hold. For instance, Scarlett Johansson, Kate Winslet, the woman on Dollhouse, that Secretary on Mad Men. . Some of the female stars of TV shows are permitted to be a bit bigger than I believe that would have been in the past. Examples include Medium, Rita Rocks, Sherry and some star of some show on lifetime who was skinny and died and woke up in a fat girls body. That being said, I think all it will amount to is tokenism. It will never be the trend any time soon. However, thanks to Monsanto, and increasingly in industrialized countries around the world, women are getting bigger. So, I am noticing bigger women in commercials who would never be in commercials in the past. They are possible coming to terms with a new bigger demographic. That is also why women’s close sizes are getting smaller. So the large number of big women will feel normal. Hail Frankenfood! What a horrible solution to Lagerfeld and Ralph Lauren From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:41 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? That won't happen because the super thin women is ingrained into the minds of the people that control the industry. So what was considered thin is the new fat, and what was healthy is now the new obese. I am glad that there was a little bit of sanity that stopped people from going over the edge though. When people like Allie MacBeal and had to be hospitalized people said ok, that is too skinny! Skeletor's girlfriend or something. Waking death just isn't cute or sexy. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: My wife says the same thing about a little weight going a long way. She's only 5'1, and often complains I don't get it because I'm 6'1--and a man. The funny thing is, this model looks better to me in shots where she's obviously gained a bit of weight over older shots. And to your point, I just see it as her getting back up to slim, not even close to fat. A couple of years ago I read an article about Scarlett Johannsen in one of my wife's magazines. The writer--a man--said that she was a pretty woman, and then added she works with her size. There were other words, but the guy's point was obviously that she was borderline too big. I remember being surprised. I'm still not sure how the desired female body type in America changed. When I was a kid it was those curvy women I mentioned. Sure, people liked Twiggy, Mary Tyler Moore in her capri pants was a cool thing. But men and women also sang the praises of the likes of Marilyn Monroe. Now it's weird. Maybe it's slowly changing back? At least, I've noticed that brunette actresses and models seem to be making a resurgence, so maybe the fuller figured women will come back too? - Original Message - From: Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:21:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: I don't know what's more disturbing: that they think this model in her current true form is overweight, or that anyone in any country in the world thought that doctored photo of her was either realistic or attractive. I have tried over and over to understand the American obsession with thin models and actresses. My wife always explains to me that clothing looks better when hung on a thin frame, since designers feel a woman's curves detract from the dress, and a thin woman's body doesn't do that. (she doesn't agree with the philosophy, but understands it). Assuming I bought that--I don't--why then do even actresses, who ostensibly aren't modeling clothing, get told to lose weight? Why are so many makeup models thin when all we should be looking at are their faces
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight?
When I was smaller, I got a lot of attention from white guys and some attention from Latino and Black guys. Interestingly enough, when I gained they all came around in larger numbers, but a larger proportion of Black guys popped up. There were a couple of things at work. I did not stop getting carded until 28 or 29. Friends called me jail bait for the longest. At twenty six one guy would not date me until I showed him my drivers license. To put it bluntly, I got breasts and hips around thirty. Those to factors had a lot to do with it. Add the very tall, in shape, over-protective father and you get the picture. Finally there is a catch 22. Out of make-up I looked like a kid, in it, I was gorgeous. I am not being arrogant. I’m amazed at how they transformed my face. My face was a palette for them to recreate. So if I left a photoshoot and did not take off the paint say to go to a party, most men would look but never come near me- unless it was an entertainment industry party. A few guys, I got to know later in life told me they thought I was out of their league back then if they met me while made up. So if you saw me in my twenties, you got either an underaged skinny kid or and unapproachable statue. So, I met less “normal” guys until I was around thirty For me, Dax and Theron are as thin as I would want to go. I think they are hot. I hate it when some of the pretty normal ones turn into sticks. Unless you are naturally thin, the weigh tloss looks like concentration camp victims. I start worrying for their mental and physical well being. One of the worse is when they lose all that weight and then stick silicon breasts on those stick figure bodies From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:50 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Tracey, I'm not surprised at all. Just out of curiosity, was the attention you started getting more from black, Latino, or white guys? I'm always fascinated at how men of different cultures and ethnicities view beauty. The old wisdom was that black and Latino men definitely tend to prefer curvier women. That is by no means the truth all the time, but I just wonder. I notice that when my wife and I are out (she's very curvy, and would kill me for saying that!) she gets more looks from black and Mexican men. Quite a few from white men, but not as much. Almost always from European guys--at least, I've caught a few Spaniards and Italians trying to mack her in the diary case while I was around the corner. The sad thing is, it's not even about slim or thin women not being attractive. Beauty comes in all sizes, and slim women can be as beautiful as anyone else. Charlize Theron is very slim, and gorgeous. Same for Rosalyn Sanchez, Terry Ferrell (Dax from DS9). It's just the push to make dangerously thin women the standard of beauty in the fashion and movie industries that bothers me. - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:44:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Here something weird, I was 115 at 5’7’ for years when I modeled back in the day. I attracted guys, but not that much—unless I had my makeup articles, and hair stylist on hand, which was not often J. I quit modeling and over the years I gained until I I was about 135 – 140. I thought I was fat, but guys started stopping me on the street and trying to get my attention. I very odd experience. Something is definitively wrong. Guys like that monster Lagerfeld, should not be defining female beauty From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:21 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Was the photoshopped Ralph Lauren model fired for being overweight? Okay, I'm going to give some stats here for a sake of comparison. At 5'4 at 120 lbs, I wear a size 2--size 0 in some clothing if the hips run loose because my waist is significantly smaller than my hips. I am also rather small-boned. For someone at 5'10 to be too fat at 120 is fucking insane. I actually will deliberately gain weight if I go below 120 because at that point I start to look unhealthy. At my height, 5 lbs goes a LONG way. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m
