RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Title: Message Hi Ed,The Friction Lid is what I was talking about, and the URL was right on. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1340649&cp=1254881.1255030.1259871&parentPage=family Correct again! The I-Beams are on the outside of the slide, Soleplate is a better word. I installed them to make it easier to see when the score-lines are parallel to the plate. Better way to do it is start the I-Beams 1-1.5" above the bed, and about .75" INSIDE the edges. This will provide for offset hosels to fit under the I-Beams with the club face resting against the I-Beam for improved accuracy. The angled mirror away from the soleplate and I-Beam permits viewing RH Club scorelines without standing on your head to view them. My delayed reply was a continuing rush of work on hand that left my lawn and garden neglected, and my email Unread Messages over 250 at current tally. My most productive year ever. ColinColin Dick-GCA Accredited Professional ClubmakerSpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Informationon http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed ReederSent: June 8, 2004 1:00 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure deviceColin,I THINK I know what you are talking about. I searched fordrop door/drawer fixture/hinge/bracket, etc. and couldn't find anything.Does it look like this "Friction Lid Support"? http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1340649&cp=1254881.1255030.1259871&parentPage=familyI'm also curious how the I-beams can interfere with a club's hosel? I'm assuming the I-beams are on the outside edges (sides) of the "slide" and the club is centered down the length of the TruMeasure.Thx,/EdColin Dick wrote:> Hi Art,>> Sorry for the poor descriptions. The True Measure has two parts, a> 48"x 4.5" fixed base, and a hinged 4.5x 4.5" pivoting piece (which I> called the "slide").>> Make that a "drop door opening fixture". They come in pairs, and> attach firm at one end of a 90° slotted arc. The other attaching> point is a bolt through the slot loose or partly tightened to control> movement of a drop drawer covering a shallow shelf. This door in the> designed cabinet use generally has a pair of light chains to stop the> door at a 90° drop, exposing the shelf. I use mine with the fixed end> down on the base and the traveling part attached to the sole plate of> the measuring device which gets moved to square up the score lines of> a club face.>> Have I confused you more?>> Colin>> Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee. GCA> Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining> Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/>> -----Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Art Sale> Sent: June 6, 2004 8:54 PM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device>>> Colin,> Would you please explain what a "drop opening fixture" is, & what> part you are referng to as the "slide"?> Thanks,> Art Sale> - Original Message -> From: "Colin Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:43 PM> Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device>>>>>Hi Ron,>>>>I built my own True Measure to start with, then bought one. I have>>made a few alterations to improve my operation of it.>>>>I epoxied a pair of I beams from an old curtain rod to the slanted bit>> (one>>>at each side) and a drop opening fixture so the slide does not move>>too readily.>>>>I installed a mirror opposite the slide to see the score lines on>>right handed clubs easier. Works great.>>>>When I get some time, I will trim the I beams so hosels cannot reach>>them. This should permit an iron to be squared up so the measurement>>will be>> more>>>accurate.>>>>I will also have a better look at my local supplier's Measuring Device>>>>http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1318.>>>>Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building>>supply stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper>>than Aluminum, and will not get bent and scarred quickly.>>>>>Colin>>>>Colin Dick->> Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee GCA>>>Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining>>Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/>>>>>
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Colin, I THINK I know what you are talking about. I searched for drop door/drawer fixture/hinge/bracket, etc. and couldn't find anything. Does it look like this "Friction Lid Support"? http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1340649&cp=1254881.1255030.1259871&parentPage=family I'm also curious how the I-beams can interfere with a club's hosel? I'm assuming the I-beams are on the outside edges (sides) of the "slide" and the club is centered down the length of the TruMeasure. Thx, /Ed Colin Dick wrote: Hi Art, Sorry for the poor descriptions. The True Measure has two parts, a 48"x 4.5" fixed base, and a hinged 4.5x 4.5" pivoting piece (which I called the "slide"). Make that a "drop door opening fixture". They come in pairs, and attach firm at one end of a 90° slotted arc. The other attaching point is a bolt through the slot loose or partly tightened to control movement of a drop drawer covering a shallow shelf. This door in the designed cabinet use generally has a pair of light chains to stop the door at a 90° drop, exposing the shelf. I use mine with the fixed end down on the base and the traveling part attached to the sole plate of the measuring device which gets moved to square up the score lines of a club face. Have I confused you more? Colin Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee. GCA Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Art Sale Sent: June 6, 2004 8:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device Colin, Would you please explain what a "drop opening fixture" is, & what part you are referng to as the "slide"? Thanks, Art Sale - Original Message - From: "Colin Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device Hi Ron, I built my own True Measure to start with, then bought one. I have made a few alterations to improve my operation of it. I epoxied a pair of I beams from an old curtain rod to the slanted bit (one at each side) and a drop opening fixture so the slide does not move too readily. I installed a mirror opposite the slide to see the score lines on right handed clubs easier. Works great. When I get some time, I will trim the I beams so hosels cannot reach them. This should permit an iron to be squared up so the measurement will be more accurate. I will also have a better look at my local supplier's Measuring Device http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1318. Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building supply stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper than Aluminum, and will not get bent and scarred quickly. Colin Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee GCA Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Thanks Colin. I understand now. Art Sale - Original Message - From: "Colin Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 8:36 AM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > Hi Art, > > Sorry for the poor descriptions. The True Measure has two parts, a 48"x > 4.5" fixed base, and a hinged 4.5x 4.5" pivoting piece (which I called the > "slide"). > > Make that a "drop door opening fixture". They come in pairs, and attach > firm at one end of a 90° slotted arc. The other attaching point is a bolt > through the slot loose or partly tightened to control movement of a drop > drawer covering a shallow shelf. This door in the designed cabinet use > generally has a pair of light chains to stop the door at a 90° drop, > exposing the shelf. I use mine with the fixed end down on the base and the > traveling part attached to the sole plate of the measuring device which gets > moved to square up the score lines of a club face. > > Have I confused you more? > > Colin > > Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee. > GCA Accredited Professional Clubmaker > SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Information > on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/ > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Art Sale > Sent: June 6, 2004 8:54 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > Colin, >Would you please explain what a "drop opening fixture" is, & what part > you are referng to as the "slide"? > Thanks, > Art Sale > - Original Message - > From: "Colin Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:43 PM > Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > I built my own True Measure to start with, then bought one. I have > > made a few alterations to improve my operation of it. > > > > I epoxied a pair of I beams from an old curtain rod to the slanted bit > (one > > at each side) and a drop opening fixture so the slide does not move > > too readily. > > > > I installed a mirror opposite the slide to see the score lines on > > right handed clubs easier. Works great. > > > > When I get some time, I will trim the I beams so hosels cannot reach > > them. This should permit an iron to be squared up so the measurement > > will be > more > > accurate. > > > > I will also have a better look at my local supplier's Measuring Device > > > > http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1318. > > > > Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building > > supply stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper > > than Aluminum, and will not get bent and scarred quickly. > >> Colin > > > > Colin Dick- > Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee GCA > > Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining > > Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/ > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
54" rulers, both wood and metal, can be obtained from upholstery supply houses. You can also get 1/8" steel rod in lengths to about 10' there. These are great for making hot rods. Just drill a 1/8" hole in the end of a piece of 3/4" dowel rod and glue the steel rod in. You have a handle and a rod for punching out epoxy from shaft tips and for heating Ping shafts, etc. For slipping shaft puller clamps, get some rubber or neoprene gas hose. Slit it down one side and attach it to the shaft. Clamp it and pull. It works. Check your local yellow pages or google.com TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device In a message dated 6/6/04 2:43:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building supplystores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper than Aluminum,and will not get bent and scarred quickly.I have several wood 48" rulers in the shop (free from carpetstores, real estate companies, etc.) which I coat with epoxy when a little too much has been mixed for club building. Now the rulers have a durable, clean clear finish. The wood rulers are not as flexible as the aluminium ones!Arnie
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
In a message dated 6/6/04 11:26:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have one wood ruler as well. However, the error in reading length is greater unless you angle the floor end at about 60*,since the wood rulers are generally thicker. Yes, and easy to do on a wood ruler with your belt sander!
RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Hi Art, Sorry for the poor descriptions. The True Measure has two parts, a 48"x 4.5" fixed base, and a hinged 4.5x 4.5" pivoting piece (which I called the "slide"). Make that a "drop door opening fixture". They come in pairs, and attach firm at one end of a 90° slotted arc. The other attaching point is a bolt through the slot loose or partly tightened to control movement of a drop drawer covering a shallow shelf. This door in the designed cabinet use generally has a pair of light chains to stop the door at a 90° drop, exposing the shelf. I use mine with the fixed end down on the base and the traveling part attached to the sole plate of the measuring device which gets moved to square up the score lines of a club face. Have I confused you more? Colin Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee. GCA Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Art Sale Sent: June 6, 2004 8:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device Colin, Would you please explain what a "drop opening fixture" is, & what part you are referng to as the "slide"? Thanks, Art Sale - Original Message - From: "Colin Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > Hi Ron, > > I built my own True Measure to start with, then bought one. I have > made a few alterations to improve my operation of it. > > I epoxied a pair of I beams from an old curtain rod to the slanted bit (one > at each side) and a drop opening fixture so the slide does not move > too readily. > > I installed a mirror opposite the slide to see the score lines on > right handed clubs easier. Works great. > > When I get some time, I will trim the I beams so hosels cannot reach > them. This should permit an iron to be squared up so the measurement > will be more > accurate. > > I will also have a better look at my local supplier's Measuring Device > > http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1318. > > Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building > supply stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper > than Aluminum, and will not get bent and scarred quickly. >> Colin > > Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee GCA > Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining > Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Arnie, I have one wood ruler as well. However, the error in reading length is greater unless you angle the floor end at about 60*,since the wood rulers are generally thicker. Art Sale - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 7:19 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device In a message dated 6/6/04 2:43:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building supplystores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper than Aluminum,and will not get bent and scarred quickly.I have several wood 48" rulers in the shop (free from carpetstores, real estate companies, etc.) which I coat with epoxy when a little too much has been mixed for club building. Now the rulers have a durable, clean clear finish. The wood rulers are not as flexible as the aluminium ones!Arnie
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Colin, Would you please explain what a "drop opening fixture" is, & what part you are referng to as the "slide"? Thanks, Art Sale - Original Message - From: "Colin Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > Hi Ron, > > I built my own True Measure to start with, then bought one. I have made a > few alterations to improve my operation of it. > > I epoxied a pair of I beams from an old curtain rod to the slanted bit (one > at each side) and a drop opening fixture so the slide does not move too > readily. > > I installed a mirror opposite the slide to see the score lines on right > handed clubs easier. Works great. > > When I get some time, I will trim the I beams so hosels cannot reach them. > This should permit an iron to be squared up so the measurement will be more > accurate. > > I will also have a better look at my local supplier's Measuring Device > > http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1318. > > Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building supply > stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper than Aluminum, > and will not get bent and scarred quickly. > > Colin > > Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee > GCA Accredited Professional Clubmaker > SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Information > on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/ > > -Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Ron Kellison > Sent: June 3, 2004 3:54 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > I've always lined the flange up with the score lines, then measured allowing > for a 1/8" butt cap. No one has ever brought a club back complaining that > it was a 1/4" short...how would they measure it anyway? > > Regards, > > Ron > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
In a message dated 6/6/04 2:43:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building supply stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper than Aluminum, and will not get bent and scarred quickly. I have several wood 48" rulers in the shop (free from carpetstores, real estate companies, etc.) which I coat with epoxy when a little too much has been mixed for club building. Now the rulers have a durable, clean clear finish. The wood rulers are not as flexible as the aluminium ones! Arnie
RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Hi Ron, I built my own True Measure to start with, then bought one. I have made a few alterations to improve my operation of it. I epoxied a pair of I beams from an old curtain rod to the slanted bit (one at each side) and a drop opening fixture so the slide does not move too readily. I installed a mirror opposite the slide to see the score lines on right handed clubs easier. Works great. When I get some time, I will trim the I beams so hosels cannot reach them. This should permit an iron to be squared up so the measurement will be more accurate. I will also have a better look at my local supplier's Measuring Device http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1318. Further findings for newbies setting up, check out a few building supply stores until you find plastic 48" rulers. They are cheaper than Aluminum, and will not get bent and scarred quickly. Colin Colin Dick- Chairman of The Devious Ways and Means Committee GCA Accredited Professional Clubmaker SpineMaster Mk.II And Spining Information on http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Kellison Sent: June 3, 2004 3:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device I've always lined the flange up with the score lines, then measured allowing for a 1/8" butt cap. No one has ever brought a club back complaining that it was a 1/4" short...how would they measure it anyway? Regards, Ron
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
I've always lined the flange up with the score lines, then measured allowing for a 1/8" butt cap. No one has ever brought a club back complaining that it was a 1/4" short...how would they measure it anyway? Regards, Ron
RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Hi Andy Once I bought the Mitchell Ruler with Sole Plate (sole touches a pin), I have never again used the TM ruler. With the TM unit, I was getting anal trying to see the exact pinpoint center of the sole, to ensure accuracy. Anyone from Canada need a True Measure ruler? I have a nearly new unit for sale that needs a good home. Thanks Harry S www.Golf54.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andy Ruigh Sent: June 4, 2004 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device This is what I thought might be my point of confusion. I was just trying to sole by the middle of the length of the face, not looking at the parallel-ness (that isn't a word) of the scorelines. Cub - I do have it on a flat work bench. I know I'm making it difficult, but I'd just hate the idea of being off 1/4". I was comparing my clubs to the lengths of OEM clubs in the course pro shop and was noticing across the board that mine were short by over the grip cap length. I did verify the lengths of the OEM clubs. Also, a buddy uses a 48" ruler bolted to the table and a door hinge mechanism for the flange, and his always seemed to be 1/4" longer than mine. He set his up by comparing the ruler down the shaft method to his homemade method. Where this all started was I was trying to determine (before receiving new heads and removing old heads) whether I could use current shafts in new heads. I knew the hosels were different lengths, just by looking, and the bore depths were different. Trying to determine the bottom bore to ground distance is where the discrepancy started appearing. I wanted to know, ahead of time, if I was going to have to order a new shaft or two. And Lord knows, I can't stand anyone's being a quarter in longer than mine! ;-) Thanks for the advice, everyone. -Andy
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Yes.. a fixed hinge would make the ruler more consistent but the club would never be measured in the "true soled position". The club will move along the ruler as the flange is adjusted. Soling the club is what matters, not the scorelines. The club will be played in the soled position, or up on the heel, or on the toe, and the scorelines will point accordingly. Cub - Original Message - From: "Dave Tutelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 1:10 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > At 01:42 AM 6/4/04 -0400, Al Taylor wrote: > >You guys are on the verge of making this difficult. > > Actually, there is an even easier way. > > If you just FIX the flange at 59 degrees, you will never be more than an > eighth of an inch off due to lie error. My own tool is a ruler with a bent > aluminum (not hinged) flange at 59 degrees. But now 60 degrees has an > additional bonus; it can measure drivers for conformance. Maybe I'll bend > mine up a degree. It will make the error even smaller for irons. The error > for fairway woods will still be negligible. The driver measurement will be > a tiny bit larger -- but the conformance measurement will be spot-on. > > >You are basically playing at the fringes of accuracy and won't affect your > >club making. The bottom line is, be consistent. > > Amen, brother Al. And a fixed, non-hinged flange is more consistent than a > hinged one. > > Cheers! > DaveT > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
I like that idea Dave. I'll rig up a "fixed" flange like that next time around. Essentially, that is what I did last night, leaving the flange pretty much set. But that only makes it consistent for that set. I could never set it exactly again, so a fixed flange would be better for set-to-set consistency. Thanks for the idea. -Andy > At 01:42 AM 6/4/04 -0400, Al Taylor wrote: >>You guys are on the verge of making this difficult. > > Actually, there is an even easier way. > > If you just FIX the flange at 59 degrees, you will never be more than an > eighth of an inch off due to lie error. My own tool is a ruler with a bent > aluminum (not hinged) flange at 59 degrees. But now 60 degrees has an > additional bonus; it can measure drivers for conformance. Maybe I'll bend > mine up a degree. It will make the error even smaller for irons. The error > for fairway woods will still be negligible. The driver measurement will be > a tiny bit larger -- but the conformance measurement will be spot-on. > >>You are basically playing at the fringes of accuracy and won't affect >> your >>club making. The bottom line is, be consistent. > > Amen, brother Al. And a fixed, non-hinged flange is more consistent than a > hinged one. > > Cheers! > DaveT > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
At 01:42 AM 6/4/04 -0400, Al Taylor wrote: You guys are on the verge of making this difficult. Actually, there is an even easier way. If you just FIX the flange at 59 degrees, you will never be more than an eighth of an inch off due to lie error. My own tool is a ruler with a bent aluminum (not hinged) flange at 59 degrees. But now 60 degrees has an additional bonus; it can measure drivers for conformance. Maybe I'll bend mine up a degree. It will make the error even smaller for irons. The error for fairway woods will still be negligible. The driver measurement will be a tiny bit larger -- but the conformance measurement will be spot-on. You are basically playing at the fringes of accuracy and won't affect your club making. The bottom line is, be consistent. Amen, brother Al. And a fixed, non-hinged flange is more consistent than a hinged one. Cheers! DaveT
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Al - Trust me, I went WAY beyond the verge. I was over the edge. :-) -Andy > You guys are on the verge of making this difficult. Most of the > measurements of heads, save weight and volume, that I can think of, has > the > score lines parallel to the ground. This is considered the normal playing > position. > > With the bench top measuring rules, the head's scored lines are placed > parallel with the ruler's sole plate. The only way to align them, that I > know of, is the MK I Eyeball.If you want to check the accuracy of your > rule, merely measure from the hinge out to one of the ruler markings. > > As for the filing of the ruler, so the etched side touches the floor, that > is fine but perhaps a bit tedious. A deep breath will move it more than > any minute error caused by the ruler thickness. > > You are basically playing at the fringes of accuracy and won't affect your > club making. The bottom line is, be consistent. > > FWIW > > Al > > >>Good idea! I was thinking about the thickness and how it could affect it >>when I was checking lengths. I think mine is probably OK, but it would >> be >>worth it to file it anyway to see. >> >>-Andy >> >>- Original Message ----- >>From: "Art Sale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:28 PM >>Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device >> >> >> > I have found that one source of error when using a ruler, is caused by >> the >> > thickness of the ruler. The thicker the ruler the larger the error. >> This >> > error can be minimized by filing the zero end of the ruler at an angle >> of >> > 60* or so, so that the tip of the graduated side of the ruler is >> actually >>on >> > the ground when measuring for length. >> >Ar Sale >> > - Original Message - >> > From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:06 PM >> > Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device >> > >> > >> > > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you >> pro's >> > > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from >> > > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure >> assembled >> > > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, >> with >>the >> > > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At >> least >> > > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the >> True >> > > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it >> doesn't >> > > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To >> accomplish >>that >> > > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches >> the >> > > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to >> come >>out >> > > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. >> > > >> > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any >>discrepancies? >> > > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a >> ruler >>down >> > > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor >>into >> > > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I >> > > should be. >> > > >> > > Thanks for any help. >> > > >> > > -Andy >> > > >> > > >> > > >
RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
This is what I thought might be my point of confusion. I was just trying to sole by the middle of the length of the face, not looking at the parallel-ness (that isn't a word) of the scorelines. Cub - I do have it on a flat work bench. I know I'm making it difficult, but I'd just hate the idea of being off 1/4". I was comparing my clubs to the lengths of OEM clubs in the course pro shop and was noticing across the board that mine were short by over the grip cap length. I did verify the lengths of the OEM clubs. Also, a buddy uses a 48" ruler bolted to the table and a door hinge mechanism for the flange, and his always seemed to be 1/4" longer than mine. He set his up by comparing the ruler down the shaft method to his homemade method. Where this all started was I was trying to determine (before receiving new heads and removing old heads) whether I could use current shafts in new heads. I knew the hosels were different lengths, just by looking, and the bore depths were different. Trying to determine the bottom bore to ground distance is where the discrepancy started appearing. I wanted to know, ahead of time, if I was going to have to order a new shaft or two. And Lord knows, I can't stand anyone's being a quarter in longer than mine! ;-) Thanks for the advice, everyone. -Andy > At the Golfsmith clubmaking course, they teach the use of the TM, and the > proper technique is to align the flange with the score lines. Clubheads > are > designed so that the score lines are parallel to the ground when the club > is > in the proper playing position...depending on the sole design, the actual > "low point" on the sole may or may not be in the middle of the > club...enough > so that it would throw off the length measurement by 1/4" or so. > > Royce > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andy Ruigh > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > I actually measured the score lines from the flange when I sole the club > in > the middle of the clubhead, and they weren't parallel. Once I flatten it > out, I can get them parallel. I guess I always focused on the location on > the sole to make contact and not on the parallel scorelines. It worked > well > doing this. It matched up with the ruler behind the shaft method. > > -Andy > > - Original Message - > From: "Steve "Cub" Culbreth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:25 PM > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > >> Andy, >> >> I've used a True Measure from Dynacraft for the past eight or more >> years. > I >> sole the club on the flange (sole plate), as do you, and the scorelines > are >> always parallel. I don't bother to test any other way. >> >> I don't understand why your scorelines aren't parallel as well. >> >> Cub >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:06 AM >> Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device >> >> >> > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's >> > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from >> > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure >> assembled >> > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with > the >> > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At >> least >> > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the >> True >> > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it >> doesn't >> > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish > that >> > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the >> > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come > out >> > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. >> > >> > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any > discrepancies? >> > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler > down >> > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor > into >> > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I >> > should be. >> > >> > Thanks for any help. >> > >> > -Andy >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >
RE: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
At the Golfsmith clubmaking course, they teach the use of the TM, and the proper technique is to align the flange with the score lines. Clubheads are designed so that the score lines are parallel to the ground when the club is in the proper playing position...depending on the sole design, the actual "low point" on the sole may or may not be in the middle of the club...enough so that it would throw off the length measurement by 1/4" or so. Royce -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andy Ruigh Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device I actually measured the score lines from the flange when I sole the club in the middle of the clubhead, and they weren't parallel. Once I flatten it out, I can get them parallel. I guess I always focused on the location on the sole to make contact and not on the parallel scorelines. It worked well doing this. It matched up with the ruler behind the shaft method. -Andy - Original Message - From: "Steve "Cub" Culbreth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > Andy, > > I've used a True Measure from Dynacraft for the past eight or more years. I > sole the club on the flange (sole plate), as do you, and the scorelines are > always parallel. I don't bother to test any other way. > > I don't understand why your scorelines aren't parallel as well. > > Cub > > - Original Message - > From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:06 AM > Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the > > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that > > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out > > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? > > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down > > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into > > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > > should be. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > -Andy > > > > > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Al, Sort of what I was getting at but I was trying to be "kindler and gentler"! ;-) For Andy I do take it that the True Measure is laying on the bench. If so, I still don't see why the lines aren't parallel... but in any case, to sole the club is to sole the club and that is what you are after anyway!! Cheers, Cub - Original Message - From: "Al Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 7:42 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > You guys are on the verge of making this difficult. Most of the > measurements of heads, save weight and volume, that I can think of, has the > score lines parallel to the ground. This is considered the normal playing > position. > > With the bench top measuring rules, the head's scored lines are placed > parallel with the ruler's sole plate. The only way to align them, that I > know of, is the MK I Eyeball.If you want to check the accuracy of your > rule, merely measure from the hinge out to one of the ruler markings. > > As for the filing of the ruler, so the etched side touches the floor, that > is fine but perhaps a bit tedious. A deep breath will move it more than > any minute error caused by the ruler thickness. > > You are basically playing at the fringes of accuracy and won't affect your > club making. The bottom line is, be consistent. > > FWIW > > Al > > > >Good idea! I was thinking about the thickness and how it could affect it > >when I was checking lengths. I think mine is probably OK, but it would be > >worth it to file it anyway to see. > > > >-Andy > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Art Sale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:28 PM > >Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > > > > I have found that one source of error when using a ruler, is caused by the > > > thickness of the ruler. The thicker the ruler the larger the error. This > > > error can be minimized by filing the zero end of the ruler at an angle of > > > 60* or so, so that the tip of the graduated side of the ruler is actually > >on > > > the ground when measuring for length. > > >Ar Sale > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:06 PM > > > Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > > > > > > > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > > > > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > > > > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > > > > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with > >the > > > > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > > > > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > > > > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > > > > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish > >that > > > > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > > > > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come > >out > > > > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > > > > > > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any > >discrepancies? > > > > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler > >down > > > > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor > >into > > > > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > > > > should be. > > > > > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > > > -Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
You guys are on the verge of making this difficult. Most of the measurements of heads, save weight and volume, that I can think of, has the score lines parallel to the ground. This is considered the normal playing position. With the bench top measuring rules, the head's scored lines are placed parallel with the ruler's sole plate. The only way to align them, that I know of, is the MK I Eyeball.If you want to check the accuracy of your rule, merely measure from the hinge out to one of the ruler markings. As for the filing of the ruler, so the etched side touches the floor, that is fine but perhaps a bit tedious. A deep breath will move it more than any minute error caused by the ruler thickness. You are basically playing at the fringes of accuracy and won't affect your club making. The bottom line is, be consistent. FWIW Al Good idea! I was thinking about the thickness and how it could affect it when I was checking lengths. I think mine is probably OK, but it would be worth it to file it anyway to see. -Andy - Original Message - From: "Art Sale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:28 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > I have found that one source of error when using a ruler, is caused by the > thickness of the ruler. The thicker the ruler the larger the error. This > error can be minimized by filing the zero end of the ruler at an angle of > 60* or so, so that the tip of the graduated side of the ruler is actually on > the ground when measuring for length. >Ar Sale > - Original Message - > From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:06 PM > Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the > > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that > > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out > > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? > > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down > > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into > > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > > should be. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > -Andy > > > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Good idea! I was thinking about the thickness and how it could affect it when I was checking lengths. I think mine is probably OK, but it would be worth it to file it anyway to see. -Andy - Original Message - From: "Art Sale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:28 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > I have found that one source of error when using a ruler, is caused by the > thickness of the ruler. The thicker the ruler the larger the error. This > error can be minimized by filing the zero end of the ruler at an angle of > 60* or so, so that the tip of the graduated side of the ruler is actually on > the ground when measuring for length. >Ar Sale > - Original Message - > From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:06 PM > Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the > > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that > > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out > > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? > > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down > > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into > > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > > should be. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > -Andy > > > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
I actually measured the score lines from the flange when I sole the club in the middle of the clubhead, and they weren't parallel. Once I flatten it out, I can get them parallel. I guess I always focused on the location on the sole to make contact and not on the parallel scorelines. It worked well doing this. It matched up with the ruler behind the shaft method. -Andy - Original Message - From: "Steve "Cub" Culbreth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > Andy, > > I've used a True Measure from Dynacraft for the past eight or more years. I > sole the club on the flange (sole plate), as do you, and the scorelines are > always parallel. I don't bother to test any other way. > > I don't understand why your scorelines aren't parallel as well. > > Cub > > - Original Message - > From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:06 AM > Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > > > > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the > > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that > > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out > > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? > > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down > > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into > > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > > should be. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > -Andy > > > > > > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
I have found that one source of error when using a ruler, is caused by the thickness of the ruler. The thicker the ruler the larger the error. This error can be minimized by filing the zero end of the ruler at an angle of 60* or so, so that the tip of the graduated side of the ruler is actually on the ground when measuring for length. Ar Sale - Original Message - From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:06 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > should be. > > Thanks for any help. > > -Andy > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Andy, I've used a True Measure from Dynacraft for the past eight or more years. I sole the club on the flange (sole plate), as do you, and the scorelines are always parallel. I don't bother to test any other way. I don't understand why your scorelines aren't parallel as well. Cub - Original Message - From: "Andy Ruigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device > I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's > probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from > Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled > club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the > club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least > 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True > Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't > appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that > parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the > flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out > closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. > > Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? > I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down > the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into > the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I > should be. > > Thanks for any help. > > -Andy > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Eyeball... Andy Ruigh wrote: Jen - do you measure or just eyeball the scorelines. It seemed like eyeball might work, but I wasn't sure. -Andy
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Jen - do you measure or just eyeball the scorelines. It seemed like eyeball might work, but I wasn't sure. -Andy > Hi Andy > > I use it too. I don't build much but when I do, I make sure my > scorelines are parallel to the flange before I measure regardless of > where the sole touches. I am not sure if that is right or wrong, but it > is my approach to measuring with that device. > > Jen > > > Andy Ruigh wrote: >> I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's >> probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from >> Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled >> club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with >> the >> club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least >> 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True >> Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't >> appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish >> that >> parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the >> flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come >> out >> closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. >> >> Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any >> discrepancies? >> I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler >> down >> the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor >> into >> the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I >> should be. >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> -Andy >> >> >> >> >> >
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
If you are measuring drivers, set the "soling" plate to 60º (on outside from bench top). This is the Official measure under USGA recent rules. Measure to end of grip butt. Arnie
Re: ShopTalk: Measuring - True Measure device
Hi Andy I use it too. I don't build much but when I do, I make sure my scorelines are parallel to the flange before I measure regardless of where the sole touches. I am not sure if that is right or wrong, but it is my approach to measuring with that device. Jen Andy Ruigh wrote: I'm guessing this is a question more for the "hobbyists", as you pro's probably use jigs for measuring. I've used a "True Measure" from Golfsmith for many years. I've just noticed that if I measure assembled club length using a 48" ruler running down the back of the shaft, with the club in the playing position, I seem to get different results. At least 1/4" longer. I've noticed that if I sole the club properly in the True Measure, touching the middle of the sole on the flange, that it doesn't appear that the scorelines are parallel to the flange. To accomplish that parallel, I have to flatten the flange so the club's sole touches the flange much more towards the heel. And oddly enough, it seems to come out closer to the "ruler down the back" measurement method. Have any of you used the True Measure? Have you noticed any discrepancies? I just find the True Measure is so convenient versus holding a ruler down the back of the club. If I just need to build a little fudge factor into the TM, I'm OK with that. I just want to know that I'm doing what I should be. Thanks for any help. -Andy
