Re: [silk] contracts vs. copyright
At 2007-02-22 12:49:13 +0530, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Why can't they write their own anyway ? Unless it is not POP3 at all > and POP3 is a placeholder (Yes, it's a placeholder for an entirely non-trivial program.) -- ams
Re: [silk] contracts vs. copyright
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: > 3. Suppose they take the GPLed POP3 server and modify it substantially >to suit their needs, and modify their program to talk to it. Releasing the modifications (in readable and compile-able format or such) and/or the modified server source code should cover all obligations I believe. But I am not a lawyer and so expert opinions should always be solicited Why can't they write their own anyway ? Unless it is not POP3 at all and POP3 is a placeholder :Sankarshan - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF3UPwXQZpNTcrCzMRAvhtAKDCrIlFWUJ1Dk2KAM0D7fUuOqlt7QCgv/uP MexQznP86OmiF991WjZ6JJQ= =orDJ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
right. your wedding was the one time i've been to bangalore in all that time Srini RamaKrishnan [22/02/07 08:54 +0530]: Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: [...] (which is how long since I've been in bangalore) :) Ahem, I have evidence to the contrary, but never mind :-) Cheeni -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | gpg EDEDEFB9 email sturmbahnfuehrer | lower middle class unix sysadmin
Re: [silk] contracts vs. copyright
*I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE DETAILS OF THE GPL* (My copyright experience has more to do with music than software) Having said that, my vague recollection of the GPL from years ago is that if you use even the tiniest amount of GPL'ed code in a new program, then you have to release the new program and its code under GPL in full. *Assuming that is true*, their obligations under the GPL basically depend on whether their proprietary program and the modified POP3 server are considered to be one program for GPL purposes or not. (This is the core issue which you have identified yourself in your post about "derivative work"). This appears to be more a question of fact, not a question of law - presumably it will depend on the precise circumstances of the case. There may even be case law on the point (assuming you're talking about US law for the moment since the GPL was conceived under the US law). Based solely on your description below, which seems to imply that the two are separate programs, I would be inclined to say that the company can satisfy its GPL obligations simply by releasing its modified POP3 server under the GPL. My days of dealing with US copyright law are several years in the past but as far as I can remember (without going into a lecture on copyright law), the fact that the proprietary program depends on the modified POP3 server which in turn depends on the GPL POP3 server does NOT make it (or a combination of the two) a derivative work of the GPL POP3 server - there would have to be some copying of code or atleast of functionality. It is of course very likely that the modified POP3 server is derivative of the GPL POP3 server, but that still means the company will satisfy its obligations by releasing the modified server under GPL. (There may be some case law on this point especially in relation to analogous cases about, say, music incorporated into movies..I could be wrong but this is my first gut instinct) The issue of whether the proprietary program+modified POP3 server form one package, the entirety of which must be released under the GPL depend more on the GPL and what it requires than any principle of copyright law if you see what I mean. I tend to agree with the final conclusion at the bottom of your message. Badri > Hi. > > Here I am again, trying to abuse the goodwill of the legal initiates > lurking on the list with a hypothetical scenario. > > 1. Suppose someone writes a GPLed POP3 server. > > 2. Suppose company X, which develops a proprietary program, needs some >of the functionality of a POP3 server. > > 3. Suppose they take the GPLed POP3 server and modify it substantially >to suit their needs, and modify their program to talk to it. > >At this point, their program depends on the modified version of the >GPLed program. It could use some other POP3 server, but that would >also need to be modified in non-trivial, company-specific ways to >serve their purpose. > > 4. Now suppose they sell their program, together with the modified POP >server. > > What are the company's obligations under the GPL? > > Now, clearly, their program itself is not a work derived from the GPLed > one. But one popular perception is that the product (i.e. their program > plus the GPLed server) is a work derived from the both their proprietary > one, and the GPLed one; and that the terms of the GPL thus apply to the > whole. > > Is that really true? > > Someone (who isn't a lawyer) said: > > A <> is not a "work of authorship". Copyright is about > "works of authorship" and cannot be used to allow or disallow > behavior based on whether you have <> two things at an > engineering level to make a product. > > And that the combination described above results neither in a derived > work, nor in a copyrightable compilation, but merely in a parcel of > goods; and that since no infringing work has been created, all the > company has to do in order to comply with the GPL is to make their > modified POP server source code available. > > Thoughts? > > -- ams > >
Re: [silk] contracts vs. copyright
On 22/02/07, Michael Silk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now, clearly, their program itself is not a work derived from the GPLed > one. Yes, it is. Without the adjustments to the GPLed program theirs wouldn't work, and they base their program around those said adjustments so it clearly relies on the adjusted functionality. I disagree. What they have done (in effect) is define an extension to the POP3 protocol and modified an existing POP3 server to be a reference implementation. In theory, they could write a completely proprietary implementation of the protocol in the future. That would work with an unmodified version of their program. It seems illogical to state that their program is a derived work but will stop being one if a third program is written. In my (completely uninformed) opinion this is "mere aggregation". > But one popular perception is that the product (i.e. their program > plus the GPLed server) is a work derived from the both their proprietary > one, and the GPLed one; and that the terms of the GPL thus apply to the > whole. > > Is that really true? Only if you modify the GPLed one; if you don't modify it you are OK. I'd say only the modified GPLed server is a derived work. The entirety in no more than a distribution. > Someone (who isn't a lawyer) said: > > A <> is not a "work of authorship". Copyright is about > "works of authorship" and cannot be used to allow or disallow > behavior based on whether you have <> two things at an > engineering level to make a product. > > And that the combination described above results neither in a derived > work, nor in a copyrightable compilation, but merely in a parcel of > goods; and that since no infringing work has been created, all the > company has to do in order to comply with the GPL is to make their > modified POP server source code available. > > Thoughts? Thoughts might be to contact the copyright holder of the GPLed product and see if he can grant you a license to sell it without releasing the source, or some similar arrangement. I'd say that if the source code of the modified server is made available then all GPL obligations are fulfilled. -- b PS: POP3 is hardly brain surgery -- write a pop3d from scratch and avoid the entire mess is my thought.
Re: [silk] contracts vs. copyright
At 2007-02-22 17:00:59 +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > What are the company's obligations under the GPL? > > To open-source their modifications. > > [...] > > > But one popular perception is that the product (i.e. their program > > plus the GPLed server) is a work derived from the both their > > proprietary one, and the GPLed one; and that the terms of the GPL > > thus apply to the whole. > > > > Is that really true? > > Only if you modify the GPLed one; if you don't modify it you are OK. It sounds to me as though you're contradicting yourself here. If the GPL applies to the distributed whole, then the company's obligation can't be only to open-source the modifications they make to the GPLed program. -- ams
Re: [silk] contracts vs. copyright
On 2/22/07, Abhijit Menon-Sen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi. Here I am again, trying to abuse the goodwill of the legal initiates lurking on the list with a hypothetical scenario. 1. Suppose someone writes a GPLed POP3 server. 2. Suppose company X, which develops a proprietary program, needs some of the functionality of a POP3 server. 3. Suppose they take the GPLed POP3 server and modify it substantially to suit their needs, and modify their program to talk to it. At this point, their program depends on the modified version of the GPLed program. It could use some other POP3 server, but that would also need to be modified in non-trivial, company-specific ways to serve their purpose. 4. Now suppose they sell their program, together with the modified POP server. What are the company's obligations under the GPL? To open-source their modifications. Now, clearly, their program itself is not a work derived from the GPLed one. Yes, it is. Without the adjustments to the GPLed program theirs wouldn't work, and they base their program around those said adjustments so it clearly relies on the adjusted functionality. But one popular perception is that the product (i.e. their program plus the GPLed server) is a work derived from the both their proprietary one, and the GPLed one; and that the terms of the GPL thus apply to the whole. Is that really true? Only if you modify the GPLed one; if you don't modify it you are OK. Someone (who isn't a lawyer) said: A <> is not a "work of authorship". Copyright is about "works of authorship" and cannot be used to allow or disallow behavior based on whether you have <> two things at an engineering level to make a product. And that the combination described above results neither in a derived work, nor in a copyrightable compilation, but merely in a parcel of goods; and that since no infringing work has been created, all the company has to do in order to comply with the GPL is to make their modified POP server source code available. Thoughts? Thoughts might be to contact the copyright holder of the GPLed product and see if he can grant you a license to sell it without releasing the source, or some similar arrangement. -- ams -- mike (as is my understanding)
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 10:52:06AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > That said - it was, as I said, competently executed. I wish he'd > spent some more time on the interplanetary internet project. You don't need new protocols, just less distance between nodes. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
[silk] contracts vs. copyright
Hi. Here I am again, trying to abuse the goodwill of the legal initiates lurking on the list with a hypothetical scenario. 1. Suppose someone writes a GPLed POP3 server. 2. Suppose company X, which develops a proprietary program, needs some of the functionality of a POP3 server. 3. Suppose they take the GPLed POP3 server and modify it substantially to suit their needs, and modify their program to talk to it. At this point, their program depends on the modified version of the GPLed program. It could use some other POP3 server, but that would also need to be modified in non-trivial, company-specific ways to serve their purpose. 4. Now suppose they sell their program, together with the modified POP server. What are the company's obligations under the GPL? Now, clearly, their program itself is not a work derived from the GPLed one. But one popular perception is that the product (i.e. their program plus the GPLed server) is a work derived from the both their proprietary one, and the GPLed one; and that the terms of the GPL thus apply to the whole. Is that really true? Someone (who isn't a lawyer) said: A <> is not a "work of authorship". Copyright is about "works of authorship" and cannot be used to allow or disallow behavior based on whether you have <> two things at an engineering level to make a product. And that the combination described above results neither in a derived work, nor in a copyrightable compilation, but merely in a parcel of goods; and that since no infringing work has been created, all the company has to do in order to comply with the GPL is to make their modified POP server source code available. Thoughts? -- ams
Re: [silk] "if all the music were free"
Touching. If only loving music was the sole prerequisite for making it well. The blogosphere is evidence of just how much people don't mind making dross for free. Supriya, cynical adult. On 2/21/07, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: i found this comment from a 13-year-old on a BBC website [1] which is a nice collection of the views of young people on the morality of downloading music (from 2003). i liked the use of the subjunctive; 13-year-old americans write good english! "If all the music were free there would only be good music because the only people making it would be people who want to make it because they love music, not because they want money." - John, 13, New York, USA 1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/chat/your_comments/newsid_2287000/2287200.stm -- Doo-bop.
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
Binand Sethumadhavan wrote [at 09:10 AM 2/22/2007] : Mouthwatering stuff aside, how was the talk? What was the talk about? Well-executed, but curiouslyflat, to my mind. The talk suffered due to the following things: * Too many concepts to do justice to any one (a high level overview of the last 35 years of internet growth, protocol design, the future of protocol design and constraints thereof, mobile phones as the first real alternative to the PC in terms of net access, why google is interested in India, &c) * The intended audience for the actual material of the talk, judging from the level it was pitched at, appeared to be the 2-3 journalists in the front row. There were some curious errors, such as one slide prominently referring to "programming languages like python and Ajax"; the notion of the Singularity being attributed to Kurzweil instead of Vinge; and Cerf claiming in response to a question that the Digital Divide was about "those who have laptops and those who don't". * The whole event was a very blatant recruiting pitch. Nothing wrong with that, but it detracted from the talk itself, as Cerf delivered various thinly-disguised (and, in at least one case, not disguised at all) pitches to the audience. That said - it was, as I said, competently executed. I wish he'd spent some more time on the interplanetary internet project. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] gamer surgeons are better surgeons
On Wednesday 21 Feb 2007 11:10 pm, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > better keyhole surgery skills This has been quoted in all surgery conferences and keyhole surgery workshops for at least a decade. I can't comment about myself because I started doing keyhole surgery before I attempted any games on computer. Anyone who has used a mouse is better than one who hasn't and gamers can probably get the hang of things before those who don't. In fact it has been shown that fighter pilots who have gamed on computer may be better at handling information rich modern cockpits than those who haven't gamed. The only thing gaming does not change is surgical judgement, which will remain as important as ability. To quote a neurosurgeon friend of mine: It took me five years to learn how to operate It took me ten years to learn when to operate But it took me twenty years to learn when not to operate. In a few years there will be no surgical trainee who has not played games on a computer. Some will be better gamers that others. Perhaps the research focus will then shift to whether better gamers are better keyhole surgeons. I have an idea for research - but it is not easy to investigate clearly. When keyhole surgery is not possible, surgeons sometimes have to open up the patient and make judgements and perform certain actions by feel alone, using one's fingers. Would someone do some research to find out whether surgeons who have groped in the dark and fondled their girlfriends/boyfriends make better operators than those who have not done that? Must remember to write to the council of Medical research and ask.. shiv
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
On 22/02/07, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well it was a great meal - nobody did order steak at the end but that did help - lots of beef salad as a result. Delicious, as usual. Mouthwatering stuff aside, how was the talk? What was the talk about? Binand
Re: [silk] Eureka!
Eugen Leitl wrote: On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:54:12AM +0400, Ramakrishnan Sundaram wrote: Bruce Metcalf said the following on 21/02/2007 07:29: I must have more sensitive radar. Or maybe it's just my wife's monthly scrutiny of the bill. Or maybe it's the A/C that brings the monthly rate up over US$200. In USsia a residential Watt for a year is worth about $1. Let's see, 1W for 1 year = 8.76kWH. At my current rate of $0.08/kWH, this would cost about $0.70, so you're not too far off. You seem to burn the equivalent of 2.4 kW, 24/7/365. That's like burning 40 60 W incandescents 24 h per day. Hello? Florida = air conditioning! Also electric stove, oven, and refrigerator. *Then* you add my half dozen computers. It's certainly the AC. A valid point, but still the CF will pay for themselves twice in their expected lifetime. Sounds like a deal to me. Now if only they would invent an AC with similar efficiency improvements. Bruce Metcalf Lake Buena Vista
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: [...] (which is how long since I've been in bangalore) :) Ahem, I have evidence to the contrary, but never mind :-) Cheeni
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
Madhu Menon [21/02/07 19:02 +0530]: Charles Haynes wrote: Ok I'm assuming plan is to go to Shiok after Vint's Tak. At least that's my plan. Mobile in case people need to get in touch: Can you folks give me a rough time and rough numbers so I can keep a table ready? Well it was a great meal - nobody did order steak at the end but that did help - lots of beef salad as a result. Delicious, as usual. Thanks all - I haven't done a silkmeet, or a dinner at shiok in a few years (which is how long since I've been in bangalore) :) srs
Re: [silk] Re 1 trick to stop trains
Semaphores as we know them in computers were invented by Dijkstra, for the THE Operating System. He, exactly, invented counting semaphores, which are different from train semaphores. "P" and "V" come from Dutch terms for (roughly) decrease and increase. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29 is a convenient reference.
[silk] "if all the music were free"
i found this comment from a 13-year-old on a BBC website [1] which is a nice collection of the views of young people on the morality of downloading music (from 2003). i liked the use of the subjunctive; 13-year-old americans write good english! "If all the music were free there would only be good music because the only people making it would be people who want to make it because they love music, not because they want money." - John, 13, New York, USA 1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/chat/your_comments/newsid_2287000/2287200.stm
[silk] gamer surgeons are better surgeons
Shiv, are you listening? ;-) Udhay http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=63580 Playing Video Games May Contribute To Keyhole Surgery Skills Article Date: 21 Feb 2007 - 8:00 PST A small US study suggests that surgeons who played video games have better keyhole surgery skills than those that did not. The study was performed by US scientists at Beth Israel Medical Centre in New York and is published in this month's issue of the Archives of Surgery. The researchers did the study because although anecdotal observations suggest that young surgeons who played video games were better at performing laparoscopies (keyhole surgery) than those who do not, this had not been empirically investigated. Laparoscopy is a type of surgery where the surgeon has to handle small instruments and go into the patient's body via a small hole or incision, hence the term "keyhole surgery". The surgeon does the operation using a television screen to see where to move the instruments; her or she cannot look straight at the place they are operating on because it is inside the body and the keyhole is too small. The researchers found a strong link between ability to play video games and performing well in keyhole surgery. The researchers studied 33 surgeons based at New York's Beth Israel Medical Centre. The participants had to play three different video games for up to 25 minutes to assess their current skill, and also answer questions on their past experience of playing video games. Their surgical skill were measured during a course that took one and a half days to complete. On the course the participants carried out a range of simulated laparoscopic and suturing procedures where their completion time and error rates were measured. The researchers also took note of the participants' level of surgical training, number of cases of laparoscopy performed, and the years they had been in medical practice. They then ran a cross-sectional analysis to compare participants' laparoscopic and suturing skills against video game experience and video game scores. The results showed that 9 young surgeons who had played video games for at least 3 hours a week made 37 per cent fewer mistakes and worked 27 per cent faster than 15 surgeons who had never played video games. The 9 surgeons with past experience of video game playing also scored 42 per cent higher overall on the range of surgical skill tests. Also, the correlation between video gaming skill and surgical skill as measured by the simulation, was stronger than either the surgeon's training or experience measured in duration. The researchers concluded that video games could help train surgeons who perform keyhole surgery. In an invited critique that accompanies the same issue of the journal, Doctor Myriam Curet re-iterates the warning that the researchers made in their article ""indiscriminate video game play is not a panacea," and invites the media not to distort the message in this study. She said parents still need to keep a check on their children's video gaming hours and the types of games they are playing. And looking at the robustness of the article, she points out that it has limitations such as the small sample size. She also draws attention to the jump from the results to the conclusion. The results showed that it was past experience of video gaming that correlated to present level of surgical skill. Perhaps the most useful contribution that this study makes is that it has opened a door that invites further investigation. One of the authors of the study, Dr Douglas Gentile did a survey in 2004 on video game playing by American teenagers and found that over 90 per cent of them are playing for an average of 9 hours a week. Excessive game playing takes the place of physical exercise, and has been linked to poorer performance at school and aggressive behaviour. Dr Gentile advises that parents should not view this study as supporting the notion that it is OK for children to play video games for more than 1 hour a day. That will not help them get into medical school, he said. "The Impact of Video Games on Training Surgeons in the 21st Century." James C. Rosser Jr; Paul J. Lynch; Laurie Cuddihy; Douglas A. Gentile; Jonathan Klonsky; Ronald Merrell Arch Surg. 2007;142:181-186. Click here for Abstract. -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Laptops no more
beleiving the manufacturer :-), btw I would go for thermography than sensitivty of lap. After all doign all that shoudl be good clean fun :-) On 2/21/07, Vatsal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone has access to IR cam :-), mind running a few tests as Ram pointed out, may be both heat up the same... but that "running few tests" part made me wonder, should this be provided as part of machine specification from the vendor... something like temperature of the motherboard or bottom surface after x hours,mins of useor "Certified Not a Lap-burner till X hours of use", will save the need of IR Cam tests.. ;) - Vatsal - It is not about a revolution (well, it could be) and neither about freedom (well, it may also be). Is mainly about having FUN!. On 2/21/07, Anish Mohammed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > interesting...I own a T43, I am thinking of T60/X60T (but keen on keeping > my > ...count). Does anyone has access to IR cam :-), mind running a few tests > ... > regards > anish > > > On 2/21/07, Ramakrishnan Sundaram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Vatsal said the following on 21/02/2007 11:01: > > > > > i use a T42 & my friend owns a latest T60 but what i have noticed is > > that > > > newer T series(T60) ones(read Lenovo laptops) get much hotter than the > > T4x > > > series(T42,T43 > > > > Not true. I have had a T21, T42 and a T60. The T60 is about as hot as > > the T42. > > > > > > Ram > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) > > > > iD8DBQFF2/BbRQoToz9njMgRCC9FAKDSb8X+TL0JiObyiQKA1ZLH9Fy7DwCg1cIH > > A8i3mELjaPR2CkEhqZ3mUMg= > > =dkY/ > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > > >
Re: [silk] Eureka!
On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:11:19AM -0500, Casey O'Donnell wrote: > >I run a rack full of hardware, which is about 30-40 EUR worth of > >electricity/month. > >The lighting part doesn't even register on the financial radar. > > Are you running servers from home? Or run a business out of your home? Most of my hardware (not that much) is running in a rented rack at my hoster (by the way, it's the best deal for rack rental I've found so far, just 99 EUR/month, with about 0.0952 EUR/GByte and 0.1904 EUR/kWh: http://hetzner.de/colocation_rack.html ), where it takes some 2.4 A at 220 V at the moment (a little bit more, actually), which is about 0.6 kW. If my math is correct, that's about 1 kEUR/year, or about 83 EUR/month. I have a file server at home which does tor, 3rd DNS server, domestic file serving, random crunch and development testing, soon accounting, asterisk, fax server, etc. > Processing something full time? Just curious why... It's supposed to become a business at some point. I don't crunch anything right now, just running a bunch of Linux vservers serving random stuff. > When I lived in the dorms in college we ran tons of hardware and > probably used more power than we needed to. When we moved off campus > four of us were running [EMAIL PROTECTED] One month we all turned it off an > our power bill dropped significantly (by roughly 20%). I certainly notice the one file server at home in the power bill. > Since then we've all been a bit more conscientious about not running > hardware that doesn't need to be run. > > Oh, and for you PS2 owners out there (and Xbox/Xbox360 owners) these > systems "leak" tons of power in standby mode. Better to unplug them. I have a ton of wall warts here which aggregate up to some considerable background drain. I wish I could install solar PV, and run everything ~12 V directly off the 12-24 V battery with DC/DC converters. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [silk] Eureka!
On 2/20/07, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I run a recent fluorescent. It sucks pretty much the same way the other systems did. I don't like the delay at lighting, the time it takes I find the delay to be a small price for reduced power consumption. I run a rack full of hardware, which is about 30-40 EUR worth of electricity/month. The lighting part doesn't even register on the financial radar. Are you running servers from home? Or run a business out of your home? Processing something full time? Just curious why... When I lived in the dorms in college we ran tons of hardware and probably used more power than we needed to. When we moved off campus four of us were running [EMAIL PROTECTED] One month we all turned it off an our power bill dropped significantly (by roughly 20%). Since then we've all been a bit more conscientious about not running hardware that doesn't need to be run. Oh, and for you PS2 owners out there (and Xbox/Xbox360 owners) these systems "leak" tons of power in standby mode. Better to unplug them. Casey
Re: [silk] Eureka!
On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:54:12AM +0400, Ramakrishnan Sundaram wrote: > Bruce Metcalf said the following on 21/02/2007 07:29: > > > I must have more sensitive radar. Or maybe it's just my wife's monthly > > scrutiny of the bill. Or maybe it's the A/C that brings the monthly rate > > up over US$200. In USsia a residential Watt for a year is worth about $1. You seem to burn the equivalent of 2.4 kW, 24/7/365. That's like burning 40 60 W incandescents 24 h per day. > It's certainly the AC. I switched the whole house to CFL two years ago - > about 40 bulbs. There's been no observable difference in the bills. > > But eight months a year here it goes above 40 degrees celsius, and the > electricity bills drop to about 30% of their summer peak in the other 4 > months. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
Charles Haynes wrote: Ok I'm assuming plan is to go to Shiok after Vint's Tak. At least that's my plan. Mobile in case people need to get in touch: Can you folks give me a rough time and rough numbers so I can keep a table ready? Thanks, Madhu PS: Only SRS asked for steak so I haven't ordered extra beef. -- <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Shiok Far-eastern Cuisine Indiranagar, Bangalore Visit us @ http://www.shiokfood.com Phone: (080) 4116 1800
Re: [silk] Laptops no more
On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 01:27:58PM +0100, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh wrote: > as was widely reported a couple of years ago, more than 15 minutes of > laptop use (as a laptop) is hazardous for health, for men at least [1]. What I don't understand is how people put up with this. I would never buy a notebook which is a) audible beta) will cause discomfort, or burn unprotected skin. What's worse, most of the notebooks run so hot they crash, and need to be mounted on little standoffs. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
I may turn up for a bit. -- b On 21/02/07, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ok I'm assuming plan is to go to Shiok after Vint's Tak. At least that's my plan. Mobile in case people need to get in touch: 99 007 55622 -- Charles On 2/14/07, Madhu Menon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > > > > > Oh and Charles - can you get Vint along to the meet by any chance? > > > > srs > > > > ps: Madhu, if its shiok, make sure you have steak available - Biju and > > Gabin kind of made me hungry with their ecstatic descriptions of what > > you can do to a steak. > > Yes, I can do steak. :) > > Just need to know how many. > > (I refuse to cook them beyond "medium" doneness, however. Alternatively, > you can chew on my leather shoe. It will be tastier.) > > I'll have to cook them myself, so I might have to disappear for about > half an hour. > > -- > <<< * >>> > Madhu Menon > Shiok Far-eastern Cuisine > Indiranagar, Bangalore > Visit us @ http://www.shiokfood.com > Phone: (080) 4116 1800 > >
Re: [silk] Laptops no more
On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 01:19 +0530, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: > When did laptops stop being "lap"tops? Every new laptop out there gets > too hot to hold on my thigh after about 1 hour (max) of usage. as was widely reported a couple of years ago, more than 15 minutes of laptop use (as a laptop) is hazardous for health, for men at least [1]. -rishab 1. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=17664
Re: [silk] Laptops no more
Does anyone has access to IR cam :-), mind running a few tests as Ram pointed out, may be both heat up the same... but that "running few tests" part made me wonder, should this be provided as part of machine specification from the vendor... something like temperature of the motherboard or bottom surface after x hours,mins of useor "Certified Not a Lap-burner till X hours of use", will save the need of IR Cam tests.. ;) - Vatsal - It is not about a revolution (well, it could be) and neither about freedom (well, it may also be). Is mainly about having FUN!. On 2/21/07, Anish Mohammed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: interesting...I own a T43, I am thinking of T60/X60T (but keen on keeping my ...count). Does anyone has access to IR cam :-), mind running a few tests ... regards anish On 2/21/07, Ramakrishnan Sundaram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Vatsal said the following on 21/02/2007 11:01: > > > i use a T42 & my friend owns a latest T60 but what i have noticed is > that > > newer T series(T60) ones(read Lenovo laptops) get much hotter than the > T4x > > series(T42,T43 > > Not true. I have had a T21, T42 and a T60. The T60 is about as hot as > the T42. > > > Ram > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) > > iD8DBQFF2/BbRQoToz9njMgRCC9FAKDSb8X+TL0JiObyiQKA1ZLH9Fy7DwCg1cIH > A8i3mELjaPR2CkEhqZ3mUMg= > =dkY/ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > >
Re: [silk] Silkmeet 2/21 (post Vint Cerf speech)
Ok I'm assuming plan is to go to Shiok after Vint's Tak. At least that's my plan. Mobile in case people need to get in touch: 99 007 55622 -- Charles On 2/14/07, Madhu Menon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > > Oh and Charles - can you get Vint along to the meet by any chance? > > srs > > ps: Madhu, if its shiok, make sure you have steak available - Biju and > Gabin kind of made me hungry with their ecstatic descriptions of what > you can do to a steak. Yes, I can do steak. :) Just need to know how many. (I refuse to cook them beyond "medium" doneness, however. Alternatively, you can chew on my leather shoe. It will be tastier.) I'll have to cook them myself, so I might have to disappear for about half an hour. -- <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Shiok Far-eastern Cuisine Indiranagar, Bangalore Visit us @ http://www.shiokfood.com Phone: (080) 4116 1800
Re: [silk] Laptops no more
On 21/02/07, Anish Mohammed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: interesting...I own a T43, I am thinking of T60/X60T (but keen on keeping my ...count). Does anyone has access to IR cam :-), mind running a few tests I hated my T43 - bad/slow HDD, mainly (windows explorer used to take sometimes upto a minute to start up). Plus I ended up with one of those recalled batteries... Right now I have an absolutely amazing X60. Light and simple, but incredibly powerful (dual core etc.). Binand
Re: [silk] Laptops no more
interesting...I own a T43, I am thinking of T60/X60T (but keen on keeping my ...count). Does anyone has access to IR cam :-), mind running a few tests ... regards anish On 2/21/07, Ramakrishnan Sundaram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Vatsal said the following on 21/02/2007 11:01: > i use a T42 & my friend owns a latest T60 but what i have noticed is that > newer T series(T60) ones(read Lenovo laptops) get much hotter than the T4x > series(T42,T43 Not true. I have had a T21, T42 and a T60. The T60 is about as hot as the T42. Ram -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQFF2/BbRQoToz9njMgRCC9FAKDSb8X+TL0JiObyiQKA1ZLH9Fy7DwCg1cIH A8i3mELjaPR2CkEhqZ3mUMg= =dkY/ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [silk] Eureka!
On Wednesday 21 Feb 2007 3:29 am, Bruce Metcalf wrote: > Fluorescents certainly did suck, and hard, once upon a time. But time > changes, and I suggest you may want to give fluorescents, especially > compact fluorescents, another look. They are far less sucky than even a > few short years ago. I shifted largescale to compact fluorescents at home many years ago. What has become better is that the yellow light producing ones are now available easily in India. I am now shifting wholesale to those. For those in India who are using old fluorescent tubes - you can get yellow ones for those too. shiv
