Re: CSRe:distilled water
The warning is to not use H2O2 and CS as a seeding solution. It's OK to add them together [it will actually break up large particles that have formed...turn a colored CS clear] but not to use it as a starter. Ken At 06:28 PM 10/5/01 -0600, you wrote: Coyote: I've never seen large flakes of silver in a CS solution where very small amounts of H2O2 have been added. I particularly like to use a H2O2 / CS solution to treat ear conditions. - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coy...@alltel.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: Re: CSRe:distilled water Seeding Add a bit of a previous batch of CS to the new batch to increase initial conductivity of the water to get things going faster without contaminating the batch with... Warning: Do not use H2O2 or CS that has any H2O2 in it. [Makes very pretty but huge metal flakes] Ken At 11:17 AM 10/3/01 -0700, you wrote: Ken ~ Your tap water sounds like my well water. Too much iron and minerals. What is CS seeding? Thanks bunches, Julie Critters I've tried tap water but mine has so much iron and minerals in it that I got grey stuff dropping out. Distilled with CS seeding works best. ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSFollowup Remarks on Bioterrorism Preparations Found on Quackwatch
No heat. Use an ultrasonic type. --Original Message Text--- From: Josephine Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:27:12 -0700 Hi Suzy, I will look for a cool mist vaporizer. Does using a vaporizer mean that the CS must be heated? If so, then will the heat affect the quality of the CS as it is inhaled? Thanks, Josephine Hi Josephine, we don't use the airbrush, but have had SUPERB results by using a cool mist vaporizer, purchased from Walgreens for under $30.00. We get the mist into the throat, deep into the lungs and nose. Suzy
Re: CSAntibiotics and the Pill
Dear Tony, Does taking antibiotics result in contraceptive pill becoming less effective? I believe it doesn't - only - why would you want to take an antibiotic? anti = against biosis=life; an against life product - it would only impair the person's immune system. Does taking CS make the pill less effective? A colloid does not interreact with a drug unless it contained fungal, bacterial or viral contamination. A young adult who is on the pill and who has just come down with 'flu wants to know. Her mother has offered her CS for the 'flu symptoms, and the CS is said to be a natural antibiotic. She seems to think that the pill is made ineffective by antibiotics, thus increasing the risk of unwanted pregnancy. She would like to take CS but doesn't want to become pregnant right now. :, giving up sex for a while doesn't seem to be an option. [The population would decline if it was ;) ] I am not aware of antibiotics affecting the pill and, if so, would really like to know the pathway. Avoid antibiotics, take the CS, continue sex, continue the pill. Regards, Judith. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments
According to Peter Lindemann ( whom I personally view as a good source of information for more than just CS ), adding salt as a primer results in particles sized from .05 to .14 microns, as determined from electon microscope photography. Particles this size, according to Peter, are too large to form a colloidal suspension. Also, silver salts are often not as effective as colloidal Silver or Silver proteins. For example, Simonetti and colleagues tested extremely dilute solutions of electro-colloidal Silver [Ag(e)] and Silver nitrate [Ag N03] against culture of two bacteria (E. coli and P. aeruginosa), a yeast (C. albicans) and a mould (A. niger). The levels of Silver ion tested were incredibly low: 108 PPB (0.108mcg/ml) and 10.8PPB (0.0108 mcg/ml). Simonetti et al concluded Our experiments showed that the contact antimicrobial activity of Ag(e) was superior to that of AgNO3 against gram-positive and negative bacteria, C. albicans, and a filamentous mycete. Our contact tests confirmed the excellent antibacterial spectrum and the high potency of electrically generated silver demonstrated previously Anodic silver ions are very effective agents at low concentrations without any detrimental effect upon normal mammalian cells, and the [low] concentrations needed to inhibit the bacteria in invitro experiments have been confirmed clinical data. (23) 23) N. Simonetti et al (1992) Electrochemical Ag+ for Preservative Use Appl Environ Microbiol 58, 3834-36. The above taken from International Anti-Aging systems... The opinion stated is that silver salts are corrosive, and act as astringents and irritants. In their opinion, mild silver protein is better than silver salts. A further quote: Electrically prepared colloidal silver [Ag(e)] is currently available from many sources, in potencies ranging from 3-5 PPM up to 500 PPM. Equally (or more) important than the silver level is the particle size and degree of dispersion. In a liquid colloid, the Silver does not actually dissolve in the liquid; rather, it exists as a suspension of microscopic particles floating around in the liquid medium. Properly made Ag(e) should contain particles approximately 0.01 to 0.001 microns in diameter (1 micron=one millionth of a meter, or 4/100,000 inch). At this tiny size, each particle is a cluster of perhaps 5-20 Silver atoms, with a positive electric charge. Also taken from International Anti-Aging Systems. Correct me if I'm wrong ( and I could be ) but most people started using salt in CS preparations because of an article written and widely publicized by Mark Metcalf. That article is still widely publicized, even though Mark later admitted that it was true that avoiding creating silver salts in the generator process was more desireable over the quick fix of adding salt, which only added the benefit of decreasing the amount of time of brew. From AHP ( brand ): Although there have been a number of different techniques developed in an attempt to achieve a true silver colloid, the best and most effective method is the electrical process since it is the only method which preserves the necessary homogeneity, minuteness of granules, purity and stability to create a true colloid. [Examples of other methods which have been employed are mechanical grind, ultrasonic and chemical-Ed.]. A true colloid of silver is composed of particles of ultrafine, 99.999% silver, electrically charged and held in suspension in a solution of deionized water. According to the Colloid Research Foundation, the highest quality colloidal silver consists of the maximum number of particles of the minimum possible size with the ultimate solution having a huge number of particles of one atom, each carrying an electrical charge. Researcher Leonard Hirschberg A.M., M.D. (Johns Hopkins) says: 'From a therapeutical point of view I need only deal with the electric colloid metals ... Only these present the necessary homogeneity, purity and stability.' According to Dr. Ronald J Gibbs, the ideal colloidal silver contains particles ranging from .01 microns to .001. In his book, Dr. Gibbs clearly demonstrates a relationship between particle size and effectiveness against bacteria, demonstrating this via in-vitro experiments. Dr. Gibbs considers safe ranges of colloidal silver to up to 12ppm. Interesting to note that Gibbs says that a 1 to 9 ratio must be used ( in-vitro) for true efficacy against bacteria ( bacteria:colloidal silver in measured in drops ). He studied time periods up to 11.5 hours. Of course, in the body, the process works differently, very differently. After spending a few minutes researching the matter, in the spirit of open-mindedness, I can't imagine why one would want to create larger particles, nor why one would want to purposefully create compounds, when it is relatively easy to avoid both. It seems like a case of reinventing the wheel square. As to why solutions made with salts still work, there could be any number of reasons,
CSDiscussion between Terry, Marshall and Co
A really useful and interesting discussion - made easy to follow by the indications of just who was expounding. Shall keep a copy in my archives! Many thanks - and more on these lines would be v welcome. Jan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSPart 2: List Guidelines and Rules
Dear List Members, Achieving the goals we share is the reason we're here on the Silver List. Guidelines and rules for conduct allow us to better serve those goals. I would like your QUESTIONS and FEEDBACK on the following proposed guidelines and rules in order to make sure they are clear, fair, and acceptable to you. Now is the time to speak up, on list or in private! GUIDELINES AND RULES: COURTESY ALWAYS: Civil, courteous, and considerate behavior is required at all times and in all discussions, regardless of topic. Aggressive behavior is not allowed. Attacks, ridicule or insults against the person, ideas, education, beliefs, or opinions of any other list member are not acceptable behavior. This applies equally to off-list behavior toward list members. Criticism of other list members' behavior or how the list is being run must be directed to the list owner, privately and not on the list. No List Cops! PERMITTED TOPICS: Any Colloidal Silver related topic or question may be raised and discussed until it is obviously exhausted. Any alternative health-related question may be asked, and answers may be given regardless of whether they are related to Colloidal Silver or not. HOWEVER... Alternative health related topics *NOT* related to Colloidal Silver will be ended or taken off list as soon as basic information is given and important resources identified. Brief heads-up messages about legislation, regulation, or politics of relevence to Colloidal Silver or *important* alternative health issues may be posted *occasionally*, with follow-up to be taken off list. A *modest* amount of humor, chit-chat, friendly banter and encouragement is condoned, and is indeed important for the well-being of the list. Such threads should be *brief*, seldom more than a small handful of messages. Such off topic noise must be allowed in order to foster the friendly, welcoming environment we seek. It is, however a privilege. Please do not abuse it. NO COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY: This is a non-commercial forum. No vendor may participate except as a private individual. No promotion of any kind is permitted without my prior, explicit approval of each occurrence. No vendor or representative may promote a particular product or malign any other. No vendor sales or solicitation is permitted except in private e-mail. It is each member's responsibility to make sure all business is conducted privately and not on the list, but it is especially the vendors' responsibility to know *how* to reply off list to avoid violating this rule. Exception: Reasonable use of signature files and taglines is permitted. The list owner will judge what is reasonable. PROHIBITED TOPICS: Experience shows that certain topics are clear losers, no matter how carefully they are treated. Politics is forbidden unless it relates *directly* to CS or *important* alternative health issues, as mentioned above. Do not discuss parties, elections, politicians, policy, or philosophy. Do not raise divisive issues -- you know which ones! Do not *reply* to political comments made by others -- Nope, not even to be fair! Religion, mysticism, or spirituality are to be avoided as topics for discussion. No comment can be made that will not risk offending someone. Overt evangelization is not permitted. Do not reply to religious remarks made by others. I am not asking you to de-God everything you say, do or think, however. Brief greetings, thanks, and prayer requests or offerings are acceptable. The occasional God bless, or you're in our prayers will not be seen as a transgression. Modest tag lines or signature files may also be used. I say again: Criticism of other list members' behavior or how the list is being run must be directed to the list owner, privately and not on the list. No List Cops! OFF TOPIC POSTS: Posts that are clearly Off Topic are generally discouraged. Do not start an obviously off topic thread. Do not reply to off topic posts made by others. If a thread morphs off-topic, end it or take it off list! There should not be lengthy threads on obviously off-topic subjects. This does *not* apply to threads that result from someone's health related questions as described in the Permitted Topics section above. If in doubt, or you have a special need you believe justifies an off topic post, please ask me in private e-mail. CONCLUSION: Again, now is the time to comment on what I'm proposing here. Some of these proposals change the way I've been running the list. I'm obviously tightening the Off Topic guidelines, but this is consistent with the availability of the... silver-off-topic-l...@yahoogroups.com I'm asking people not to respond to transgression by others on list, but rather to me in private. I'm asking people not to reply to or extend off-topic threads. All this in hopes of preventing escalation of problems from a single mis-step by someone. Inevitably there are some gray areas in the rules. This cannot be helped. If you refuse to absorb the
CSvaporizers
Damian, A regular vaporizer works by heating the water until it turns to steam. This would only get water into your lungs, not silver, since only the water would evaporate, leaving the silver behind. A cool mist vaporizer sounds like it works using a different principle than evaporation, but I would want to be sure of that before I bought one. ___ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSFiring CS onto water purifiers
Reid, I haven't jumped in because this is something I remember from discussions several years ago with the folks that produce ceramic filters similar to the Daulton or British Berkefeld type. They construct the filter element from diatomaceous earth. This gives a (memory here) absolute filteration below 1 micron (99.99%) and particles down to 0.2 microns are removed with close to 98% effectiveness. They somehow use silver nitrate to saturate the filters which is reduced to metallic silver by application of heat. The water takes 10 - 15 minutes to pass through the filter and the prolonged contact with the metallic silver produces the desired bacteriostatic action. Regards, George Martin -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSvaporizers
A cool mist vaporizer has a rapidly spinning disk that essentially throws a very fine mist into the air. The better choice is an ultrasonic type. A small electronic device (ultrasonic transducer) vibrates the water at 25-40 kHz (kHz = 1000 times / sec) and forms a very fine mist. The reason I say it is better is because they sometimes come with a warning or disclaimer that only distilled water should be used because they also will pick up minerals in the water and can cause a film (mineral deposit) to form on nearby surfaces...exactly what we want! As has been mentioned before, they can be had from Walmart. I purchased mine (Sunbeam brand) for $40. I've had more success with a nebulizer. These are designed to disperse medicines (usually asthma?) directly into the lungs. In the US they require a doctor's prescription BUT I have purchased a used one from eBay for only $25. Check out this: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResultht=1SortProperty=MetaEndSortquery=nebulizer If you have a suitable air compressor or use an O2 bottle all you would need is the mouthpiece (the actual nebulizer and some suitable tubing. Of course, you MUST ensure that the O2 or air compressor is regulated to a very low pressure (1-2 psi???) Regards, George Martin On Sun, 7 Oct 2001 08:35:23 -0400 (EDT), Terry Chamberlin wrote: =Damian, =A regular vaporizer works by heating the water until =it turns to steam. This would only get water into your =lungs, not silver, since only the water would =evaporate, leaving the silver behind. = =A cool mist vaporizer sounds like it works using a =different principle than evaporation, but I would want =to be sure of that before I bought one. = = =___ =Do You Yahoo!? =Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca = = =-- =The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. = =To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: =silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com =with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. = =To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com =Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html =List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com = =
RE: CSNebulizer info
I for one would like to see the voltage tripler version included, since 9 volt wall adapters are in most homes already I would think. Also many people have ni-cads available. Of course the simplest of all is the phone line generator. Just strip one side of a phone cord, add two alligator clips, plug it in and away you go. Brilliant in it's simplicity. I don't remember who on the list suggested that, but pat yourself on the back! Make sure you see George Martins post on vaporizers. He suggests ebay for a nebulizer. They are going for 25$-60$ USD, not sure what that works out to in AUD at the moment, but it could save you some money. Gary -Original Message- From: damian [mailto:damian...@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 1:04 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSNebulizer info I've heard people mention there use of CS in nebulizer and some say that you must use extremely high quality nebulizers to make the particle size small. However then theres those who use vaporizers and say they have good success. Surely then if i were to buy a cheaper nebulizer and not an expensive ultrasonic version there should be no problem. I've been thinking of getting one for some time now. The model ive been looking at uses a pump and not pure oxygen. Its about $140 Australian. Any thoughts people before i go and throw my money away. I seem to be doing that allot latly and are getting sick of it. Ok people take care. Oh yeah who is in charge of compiling the faq. Joseph has just about finished the schematic for a 9V CS maker with current regulator. Who does this get mailed to if it is to be included in the faq. I believe some people are against using a voltage trippler. I reckon it should be included in the faq and let the person decide. Take care damian -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS/MSM/DMSO FORMULA
Can someone please tell me approx.number of grams of MSM to use in the 8oz's of CS to reach the saturation level. Also, is 1 1/2 oz's of DMSO correct? THANKS, TOM -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSAnthrax resistance gene identified in mice-FYI
Anthrax Resistance Gene Identified in Mice -- -- WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Oct 02 - Researchers have identified a gene in mice that mediates macrophage resistance to anthrax lethal toxin (LeTx), according to a report published in the October 2nd issue of Current Biology. If demonstrated in human cells, this finding could have important implications in the event of an attack with a biological agent. While the locus responsible for anthrax toxin resistance had been mapped to chromosome 11, the exact gene responsible for resistance had never been identified, the authors state. In the current study, Dr. William F. Dietrich, from Harvard Medical School in Boston, and colleagues evaluated the susceptibility of various murine macrophage strains to LeTx. Within the previously identified locus, the researchers found only one gene that differed between susceptible and resistant strains. The gene identified encoded a kinesin-like protein, known as Kif1C. Treatment with a chemical that alters the cellular localization of Kif1C induced LeTx susceptibility in formerly resistant strains. In contrast, ectopic expression of a resistance allele of Kif1C promoted survival in susceptible strains. We don't know yet whether human macrophages vary in their susceptibility to the toxin, Dr. Dietrich told Reuters Health. However, we can isolate and test human macrophages, so this is clearly an answerable question, he said. If they do vary in their susceptibility, it will be interesting to see if this can be accounted for by differences in the human homologue of Kif1C gene, he added. If the human macrophage research pans out it might lead to some sort of diagnostic test, Dr. Dietrich noted. But then the question becomes 'what do we do with such a test?' he said. Determining a patient's susceptibility might facilitate triage and help guide clinical decision making. Dr. Dietrich also pointed out that anthrax involves a couple different processes. There's the bacterial infection component which...can be controlled, and then there's the toxin aspect which is difficult to control, he said. So if a patient is resistant to the toxin, treatment could focus on the bacterial infection aspect. I don't view the Kif1C protein as being a drug target itself, Dr. Dietrich emphasized. However, further research into the pathways involved may reveal molecules that could be pharmacologic targets, he added. Current Biol 2001;11:1503-1511. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSNebulizer info
In a message dated 10/7/2001 1:02:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, damian...@optusnet.com.au writes: Oh yeah who is in charge of compiling the faq. Joseph has just about finished the schematic for a 9V CS maker with current regulator. Who does this get mailed to if it is to be included in the faq. I believe some people are against using a voltage trippler. I reckon it should be included in the faq and let the person decide. Take care damian Damian: Send any FAQ suggestions (together with answers, if you like) to me. Roger
RE: CSPart 2: List Guidelines and Rules
I for one like what you've done. Sending concerns to you directly rather than to the list as a whole makes sense. The direction of this list pleases me a good deal! Judy Down Maine -Original Message- From: M. G. Devour [mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 7:50 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSPart 2: List Guidelines and Rules Dear List Members, Achieving the goals we share is the reason we're here on the Silver List. Guidelines and rules for conduct allow us to better serve those goals. I would like your QUESTIONS and FEEDBACK on the following proposed guidelines and rules in order to make sure they are clear, fair, and acceptable to you. Now is the time to speak up, on list or in private! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments
A.V.R.A. wrote: According to Peter Lindemann ( whom I personally view as a good source of information for more than just CS ), adding salt as a primer results in particles sized from .05 to .14 microns, as determined from electon microscope photography. Particles this size, according to Peter, are too large to form a colloidal suspension. Peter Lindemann's information has numerous scientific flaws. particles sized from .05 to .14 microns That would be 50 to 140 nanometer sized particles, which are not too large to form a colloidal suspension. Colloidal suspension can be formed by particles up to 1000 nm. Properly made Ag(e) should contain particles approximately 0.01 to 0.001 microns in diameter (1 micron=one millionth of a meter, or 4/100,000 inch). At this tiny size, each particle is a cluster of perhaps 5-20 Silver atoms, with a positive electric charge. A 1 nanometer diameter particle (0.001 microns) consists of 31 atoms, not 5. A 10 nm particle (0.010 micron) particle consists of 30978 atoms, not 20. See the table at: http://www.silver-colloids.com/Tables/Agradvolarea.PDF Silver particles have a NEGATIVE charge, not POSITIVE charge. Ions have a positive charge. See the paper Ions, Atoms and Charged Particles at: http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/IonsAtomsChargedParticles.PDF frank key -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSGeneral comments, questions
Theoretically, the smaller the particle, the greater the surface area, the more effective. Seems reasonable to assume that the smallest particles would be more able to pentrate tissues and cells. It's likely that even brown sludge CS contains significant small particles along with the boulders. Even boulders should be effective 'where ever they can get to' if there enough of them, but smaller particles shouldn't have the same limitations of location. IMO, there is probably no bad CS...but some is better and maybe ionic is better for some applications than particulate and vice versa. Ken At 09:48 AM 10/6/01 -0400, you wrote: Listers, Techies, vendors, users, spectators: (Come one, come all) Being taught by my father to Question Authority (actually, he said, Question Everything), I feel the need to reiterate what I believe are Primary Questions regarding CS. I have, as yet, seen nothing from the Scientific types on the List in response to my questions. Questions like: 1. Does particle size matter below a certain size? (1/4 chunks are too big, yes!) This is one of, if not the major, consideration. If coffee-colored, LVDC CS is just as effective (in killing pathogens) as crystal-clear, HVAC CS, then variations in voltage and current are only relevant to the speed of CS-brewing. 2. Apart from known silver compounds (silver-nitrate, and silver compounded to any already toxic metal like mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.) is the fear of making silver compounds from any other minerals found in water simply a superstition? (Minerals we think nothing of drinking such as what is found in spring or well water.) A superstition is something that is feared without any logical reason, or even in the face of logic. I have repeatedly seen newbies admonished with great authority to NOT use salt, that this is dangerous. Or, no other water but DW or Deionized (maybe RO) should ever be considered. Yet I have seen no data to substantiate these ideas. A significant amount of time, money, equipment, etc., is expended by the Technical-oriented folks on the List on determining how to make CS with small particle size, or a preponderance of ions or particles, or a CS that has no color. Yet, little if any of this research seems to address the question, Does this method improve the microbe-killing or health-enhancing benefit of CS? (Which, in my opinion, is the top priority.) Its considered to be humorous that religious theologians of 4-500 years ago used to expend serious energy discussing such weighty matters as, How Many Angels Can Sit On The Head Of A Pin? The reason its humorous is because the question is irrelevant, it doesnt matter, it has no bearing on anything. If it turned out that there was no significant difference between the pathogen-killing, health-enhancing effects of LVDC vs. HVAC CS, wouldnt we commence research in other, more important areas? To be objective, and because this may very well be true, it may be quite important, what color CS is, or what voltage or current is used, or the addition of various substances as starter. Or it may turn out that ionic CS is better at fighting some kinds of ailments and particulate CS others. But it doesnt seem that any comprehensive, methodical research is being conducted to determine this. I realize that the kind of research that measures the microbe-killing effect of CS is more expensive to conduct, and that there may be govt/legal loopholes to be resolved before such research could even be conducted. Most of the technical type people on this List have limited finances/resources for conducting the specific kinds of research I am suggesting. Yet the question still remains: How do we know any of this matters in the slightest? How do we know if one type of electro-colloidal CS is better than any other? Speaking subjectively, my own experience with the CS I make using a very simple method (that anyone else could use) is so good, it is sometimes hard for me to take seriously the discussions of ionic vs particulate, 0.1 vs .001 size particles, meso vs non-meso, colored vs clear, stirred, heated, magnetized, oxygenated, prayed-over, etc., Colloidal Silver, when there is not ALSO offered some kind of data to indicate that this particular method/technique/adjustment makes CS more effective at doing what we seek for it to do. We read impressive testimonies about nearly every kind/type/method CS made. If you build a whole method and line of reasoning on an unsubstantiated assumption, isnt that risky? The medical establishment has done that on a wide variety of issues. They are left with scrambling around trying to bolster their position, trying to save face in response to mounting scientific evidence that exposes their faulty premises. Let us not do the same. The proposed newbie CS FAQ/Info Primer (a great idea) must be careful to separate fact from unproven assumptions. It is believed by some, though not all, should be made clear, or else CS
Re: CSRe:distilled water
Ahh, thank you Coyote, I had misread your initial comment. - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coy...@alltel.net The warning is to not use H2O2 and CS as a seeding solution. It's OK to add them together [it will actually break up large particles that have formed...turn a colored CS clear] but not to use it as a starter. Ken At 06:28 PM 10/5/01 -0600, you wrote: Coyote: I've never seen large flakes of silver in a CS solution where very small amounts of H2O2 have been added. I particularly like to use a H2O2 / CS solution to treat ear conditions. - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coy...@alltel.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: Re: CSRe:distilled water Seeding Add a bit of a previous batch of CS to the new batch to increase initial conductivity of the water to get things going faster without contaminating the batch with... Warning: Do not use H2O2 or CS that has any H2O2 in it. [Makes very pretty but huge metal flakes] Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSHydrogen peroxide addition
Ken said:- The warning is to not use H2O2 and CS as a seeding solution. It's OK to add them together [it will actually break up large particles that have formed...turn a colored CS clear] but not to use it as a starter. Ken Sorry to be so thick, Ken, but are you advocating adding hydrogen peroxide to a brew once it's made? ( My CS is yellow and I'd prefer it to be colourless) And how much would you add proportionally? What strength? Jan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments
Thank you very much Frank for bringing this to my attention. I shall hit the books again, and adjust my thinking. - Original Message - From: Frank Key fr...@strsoft.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:32 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments A.V.R.A. wrote: According to Peter Lindemann ( whom I personally view as a good source of information for more than just CS ), adding salt as a primer results in particles sized from .05 to .14 microns, as determined from electon microscope photography. Particles this size, according to Peter, are too large to form a colloidal suspension. Peter Lindemann's information has numerous scientific flaws. particles sized from .05 to .14 microns That would be 50 to 140 nanometer sized particles, which are not too large to form a colloidal suspension. Colloidal suspension can be formed by particles up to 1000 nm. Properly made Ag(e) should contain particles approximately 0.01 to 0.001 microns in diameter (1 micron=one millionth of a meter, or 4/100,000 inch). At this tiny size, each particle is a cluster of perhaps 5-20 Silver atoms, with a positive electric charge. A 1 nanometer diameter particle (0.001 microns) consists of 31 atoms, not 5. A 10 nm particle (0.010 micron) particle consists of 30978 atoms, not 20. See the table at: http://www.silver-colloids.com/Tables/Agradvolarea.PDF Silver particles have a NEGATIVE charge, not POSITIVE charge. Ions have a positive charge. See the paper Ions, Atoms and Charged Particles at: http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/IonsAtomsChargedParticles.PDF frank key -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSFw: CSHow can I get Tai-Pan's Part I?
Dear George, Too right I'm interested! I'd love to have them. Can you send any suitable for a beginner? to my own e-mail. Thanks VERY much. Jan -Original Message- From: George Martin gmar...@dragonbyte.net To: Jan Carew ja...@gatorzw.com Date: Sunday, October 07, 2001 8:22 PM Subject: Re: CSHow can I get Tai-Pan's Part I? I have a bunch of stuff he has written over the years. I keep everyone of them and refer to them often. Are you interested? George On Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:11:55 +0200, Jan Carew wrote: =Yes thanks v much - got it next download - v prompt service! = =Loads of useful info - shall keep in my archives! = =Jan =-Original Message- =From: George Martin gmar...@dragonbyte.net =To: Jan Carew ja...@gatorzw.com =Date: Sunday, October 07, 2001 3:55 PM =Subject: Re: CSHow can I get Tai-Pan's Part I? = = =Did you get Part I ? = =George = = =On Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:31:52 +0200, Jan Carew wrote: = ==Tai-Pan == ==I got your intriguing Part 2 - how can I get your Part I? == ==Jan == == ==-- ==The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal =silver. == ==To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail =message to: ==silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- =silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com ==with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. == ==To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com ==Silver-list archive: =http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html ==List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com == == = = = =
Re: CSAntibiotics and the Pill
I didn't see this original post..but just for the record.antibiotics DEFINATELY interfere with the effectiveness of the pill. Your physician should tell you this when he/she prescribes them as well as the pharmacist when you pick it up. As far as CS goes.I don't know the answer to that question..but there are many more qualified listers who may be able to give a more definitive answer to that question. Just clarifying the antibiotic issue for those who weren't aware. Christiane - Original Message - From: Judith Thamm galing...@chariot.net.au To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:48 PM Subject: Re: CSAntibiotics and the Pill Dear Tony, Does taking antibiotics result in contraceptive pill becoming less effective? I believe it doesn't - only - why would you want to take an antibiotic? anti = against biosis=life; an against life product - it would only impair the person's immune system. Does taking CS make the pill less effective? A colloid does not interreact with a drug unless it contained fungal, bacterial or viral contamination. A young adult who is on the pill and who has just come down with 'flu wants to know. Her mother has offered her CS for the 'flu symptoms, and the CS is said to be a natural antibiotic. She seems to think that the pill is made ineffective by antibiotics, thus increasing the risk of unwanted pregnancy. She would like to take CS but doesn't want to become pregnant right now. :, giving up sex for a while doesn't seem to be an option. [The population would decline if it was ;) ] I am not aware of antibiotics affecting the pill and, if so, would really like to know the pathway. Avoid antibiotics, take the CS, continue sex, continue the pill. Regards, Judith. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments
How much salt is used? I think only a few grains, right? I would guess it is less than 5 ppm, so it would get reacted out fairly fast. Marshall Terry Chamberlin wrote: Marshall wrote: The problem is that in the process of making CS, the silver leaves the wire as ions. Ions are very reactive and will react immediately with many things. Once the ions combine and form colloid then the silver becomes very non-reactive. So if your water has 50 ppm of salt in it, the first silver ions will combine with the chlorine in the salt and produce silver chloride. Only after all the elements that will combine with the silver ions are consumed will sufficient quantity of ions be present to actually start making colloid. Thus depending on the water, you may have to make several hundred ppm of ionic silver, which will combine and likely precipitate out, before you ever make the first clump of colloid. Terry responds: I follow your reasoning (I think), but, if this is true, we should be able to say that folks who use a salt starter would not have much if any success using CS made this way, nor would we see reports of success. However, that is not the case. People have had such good experience with salt-seeded CS that they swear by it. Marshall wrote: The theory [small particle size being essential] is pretty sound. Silver buried inside a particle can do nothing, and particles of silver which never contact a pathogen can do nothing. When you reduce particle size then the surface to volume ratio increases, and the number of independent particles increase. Both effects should increase the effectiveness. Also you have to consider what size is required to pass through the stomach wall. We do know that when you add salt to ionic silver, the silver precipitates out. If the silver is gone out of the water, then we know that it will not be effective since nothing is left but slightly salty water. Terry responds: Again, this sound theory doesnt explain the success of CS made in ways that, according to that theory, shouldnt work. Scientifically, bumblebees cant fly, either. Marshall wrote: We know that color defines particle size, and that particle size determines stability. We know that when the particles settle out, the remaining liquid is less effective at the very least. We also know that if the particles are too big they will not make it into the blood stream. I tested this when I was a child. When I swallowed a dime, it made it through without ever making it to the blood stream (thank goodness). Terry responds: OK, I think we are in agreement, dont swallow silver dimes. But I was thinking of smaller sizes, and my question was, At what size does size become an issue? Next question: Is it even possible to make electro-colloidal silver with particles too big to be utilized by the body? Remember, the mechanically ground-up silver ingested by the blue-bloods in Europe was still effective. A silver dollar in the bottom of a milk pail had a deterring effect on bacteria, which leads me to conclude that a very big particle size (a silver dollar) was still utilized by a different dynamic than the size of the particle. Marshall wrote: How do we know if one type of electro-colloidal CS is better than any other? (Quoting Terry) What other? Grinding silver up in a machine? That is like trying to use bowling balls for a job that requires ball bearings. If you make CS by reduction of silver nitrate, then you end up with other chemicals in the product, and most likely some silver nitrate will be left as well. We know the dangers of silver nitrate. Terry responds: I meant, is one type of electro-colloidal CS better than any other type of electro-colloidal CS? Is LVDC better than HVAC, or submerged electrodes vs. suspended, or high current vs. low current, or DW vs. RO, or smiled-at vs. frowned-at? Marshall wrote: It is true that CS is such a fantastic antibiotic that all of it seems to work no matter how it is made, and whether it is primarily ionic or colloid. But why not make it the best that you can. Lets say that an anthrax has been developed that is somewhat immune to silver. Then what? One is limited as to the amount of CS they can take by how much water they can drink. Most effective CS could make a difference in you life. Terry responds: But thats the point. What determines what is the best that you can? What is the most effective CS? Marshall wrote: (Quoting Terry) If you build a whole method and line of reasoning on an unsubstantiated assumption, isnt that risky? What assumptions are unsubstantiated? We KNOW that color depends on particle size, this has been known for almost 100 years. We know that larger particles cannot make it through the stomach lining. [Larger than what? - Terry] We know that when a particle is made smaller the surface to volume ratio increases. We know that ionic silver
Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments
Frank Key wrote: Properly made Ag(e) should contain particles approximately 0.01 to 0.001 microns in diameter (1 micron=one millionth of a meter, or 4/100,000 inch). At this tiny size, each particle is a cluster of perhaps 5-20 Silver atoms, with a positive electric charge. A 1 nanometer diameter particle (0.001 microns) consists of 31 atoms, not 5. A 10 nm particle (0.010 micron) particle consists of 30978 atoms, not 20. You are assuming a spherical particle. There is no assumption of shape in the above paragraph. If a silver atom is .2nm then if the atoms were stacked end to end, making a rod, it would be 5 atoms long for a 1 nanometer particles. A sphere would contain 31 as you say. A shape other than a rod or sphere would fall in the range of 5 to 31 atoms, so the statement above is not really far off. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSFiring CS onto water purifiers
Nina, Thanks! Reid Nina's friend said, I figured this (i.e. the silver filter) was it, he wrote me, since Clark is famous for not liking very much of the products she gets for testing. To my complete surprise, my unit passed with flying colors. And it also cleaned the water. P.S. Everybody, I'll be out of Bangladesh for the next week, without access to the silver list. So I'll look forward to jumping back in after returning. Bye for now. Reid -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSFiring CS onto water purifiers
Everybody, Following is a response from a ceramist friend of mine on the issue of mixing the CS into the clay composition prior to forming the purifiers, then firing. I am reminded that there's a lot going on in the process of firing that's not always easy to predict. (Another example of this is a problem that bedevilled me while I was after the achievement of predictable, good flow. While fabricating purifiers all the same way I ended up with a big range in flow rate, anywhere from 0.25 to 1.5 liters per hour, given the filter I was using. What I learned at the time was that these results were to be expected, since there is a very complex chemistry during the sintering process. So I had to solve the problem by using permeable grog, which all gets mixed up, then there is an averaging of flow rate, a smaller range.) In any event, what my friend says as follows points up the need for lots of additional experimentation. So for the time being I am back to the business of simply doing what we know works. Thanks to all who have shown interest. Reid, Bill Walker said: Reid, Silver metal melts at 962 degrees C, and boils at 2212 degrees C. Silver oxide decomposes in air at 230 degrees C, into silver metal and oxygen gas. The silver would not burn out. But what would actually happen to it during the firing is the question. The problems that I see with mixing the colloidal silver into the clay body are: 1) the silver may diffuse into the clay body during firing -- think of it as if it just gets melted in with everything else and no longer exists as colloidal silver; 2) if the silver remains as colloidal silver, it may not be at the surface of the pores -- much of it may end up encapsulated by the rest of the clay body. On the other hand, there might be a driving force for the silver to preferentially migrate to the pore surfaces. Bill -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSBio Protection
Hi fellow listers Between 9:00 and 10:00 pm EST, this evening. I heard a radio program (amidst many interruptions), with Dave Hinkson and Larry Wayne Harris. They talked about protection in a possible bio attack. Harris talked about 1milli liter per pound of bodyweight, while Hinkson spoke of calcium ions that would take toxins out of the body while CS would work on infection (massive amounts, and best inhaled via a mister) Harris has a book out on this and gave the toll free number, as well as his website. Unless Mike says its okay to post here I will only pass it on privately. Haven't checked out the website yet. Harris spoke very favorably of a new ( to me) product which is also the name of his website. As I said I had many interruptions while listening and missed much of the info, so please don't kill the messenger. I just thought some of you might want to know about this. Brita bvjo...@email.msn.com
CSBioTerror
Anyone have any info or insight on the effectiveness of CS on any of the 'popular' BioThreats? Specifically, smallpox. Also, does anyone know if these weapons will be genetically engineered to be resistant to our common antibiotics and/or antivirals and, if so, how will CS do in combatting these? Please reply with anything, no matter how trivial it may seem. I'm in survival research mode! :^) thanks, joe... PS - been a while, nice to be back -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS Beginner Book(s)
The jeweler will have my pure silver wire ready tomorrow. What book(s) do you recommend for a beginner CS student? With all the info I am reading and only partially absorbing, I figure a good book will help keep me off your backs with stupid questions, tho a book will help prompt some questions too. I suppose either way I'll still need everyone's help here. Thanks! Happy Howling, Julie Critters Wolf Creek Ranch mailto:wolfcre...@earthlink.net http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/index.html Home of Whispering Winds Wholistic Animal Sanctuary The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. Don't dream a dream, live a dream and let reality sleep. ~ Enyo Johnson
Re: CSRe: Thoughts and comments
Marshall wrote: You are assuming a spherical particle. There is no assumption of shape in the above paragraph. If a silver atom is .2nm then if the atoms were stacked end to end, making a rod, it would be 5 atoms long for a 1 nanometer particles. A sphere would contain 31 as you say. A shape other than a rod or sphere would fall in the range of 5 to 31 atoms, so the statement above is not really far off. Yes, we are assuming spherical particles. Has anyone actually seen a rod shaped particle? All the work we are familiar with assumes the particles to be spherical. To be precise, the diameter of a silver atom is 0.288 nm. frank key -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSNebulizers
Hello, I would be interested in buying an affordable nebulizer rather than try the airbrush/oxy method -- impractical for me for various reasons.I would be happy to hear from anyone having info. about affordable, non-prescription nebulizers. JBB -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
