Re: CSppm lab results and quirks
Reid, The AA measures TOTAL silver!!! Both inoic and particulate. It is a flame or laser burn of the material and the spectrum is captures on film. Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSProper jar cleaning
Hi Mike - Last night, I put about an inch of CS in two different glasses (using two different batches of CS) as you requested. They both turned cloudy (kind of whitish) - although one seemed to have been a little cloudier than the other. Is this what it was supposed to have done? What does this tell you? I covered both glasses with saran wrap in case there were supposed to be additional changes by the time I get home this evening. Let me knowThanksRuth - Original Message - From: Mike Monett fcue0n...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:59 PM Subject: Re: CSProper jar cleaning url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60100.html Re: CSProper jar cleaning From: Ruth Bertella (view other messages by this author) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:57:04 Hi Mike - Yes, I am using the SilverPuppy - and I love it!! It's no fuss, no muss, no bother, makes clear CS - what more could a girl ask for?!? LOL Haven't had a bad batch yet... Ruth Hi Ruth - I am pleased you are having such good results. This is a long way from the first cs I made long ago with 3 nines. The manual said to add one teaspoon of salt to the water. You can imagine the mess that made. Or maybe not... Ruth, can you do me a favor? Pour about 1 inch of your cs into a glass, and add a few shakes of salt. Tell me what you see. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60147.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:35 I test each SG7 individually by running a 1 1/2 gallon batch to assure the unit works properly before shipment. I also produce a batch every day or so to use around our household and also produce and give away as much as possible locally to those needing it. I conservatively estimate at least 500 gallons have been made using the test electrode which still looks original as far as shape is concerned. That is the edges of the electrodes (4) are not thin and sharp as you keep stating will be the fact. They started out at .013 inches and they are still that thickness as best I can measure. You are right. The effect is more likely to show up on the smaller system, which uses 0.25 plates. It won't sharpen the edge, but rather smooth it and also tend to reduce the width. But the plates are too thin to show much of a V due to the edge effect. They wear through too fast. The 1.5 plates on your production unit are much too wide to show this effect, except you might see some rounding of the corners. I calculated the loss in thickness assuming you run at 15 ppm, and found you may have lost about 2.4 thousandths of an inch in thickness on the inner pair of plates. This is negligible compared to the 1.5 width. The outer plates may have lost 1.2 mils, which might be hard to measure. This assumes no silver is lost on the outward-facing sides. But the edge effect shows where the current density is the highest. If you shut off the stirring, you should to see misting occur first at the edges of the cathode, then spread to the rest of the electrode. Misting is a sign of particle generation, which tends to limit the maximum ion concentration. I have not had much success using stirring to prevent this. I get strange side effects, such as the cs is not a strong as it should be according to the number of Coulombs transferred. It is not as effective as without stirring, and one sample coalesced and formed a small silver lump at the bottom of the glass when it was placed in a refrigerator. So I have abandoned stirring. The significance of the edge effect is if you want to run below the misting level, you have to reduce the current below the value you could reach with round wires. However, you could insulate the edges as Ole Bob has done, and your production unit might be an unbeatable system, especially if you added more plates - they are cheap and you have plenty of room. I don't know if the large plates would block the dispersal and lead to higher ion concentration, which could lead to misting. The advantage of round wires is the space between the wires promotes even dispersal of the ions without the need for stirring. Reversing the polarity might delay the onset of misting. This needs to be examined separately, but if so, it could also be applied to round wires. And please don't tell me the ions made with your process are better than those made with mine. I don't believe it. Heh - you must be used to dealing with kooks. I never said that or implied it anywhere. I also don't believe that solar flares or the phase of the moon has any effect on cs production. An ion is an ion. So once again I ask the question...why would one want to watch and wait for what would be an interminable amount of time for the product to be ready to use in order to keep the electrode clean when one can make it as fast as 2 gallons per hour and have a little residue which resides in the bottom of the vessel? With a given volume of dw, the ppm is determined by the number of Coulombs transferred. With constant current, the time is easily calculated according to the number of Coulombs needed. The real difference is that running at low current densities such as 100 uA/sq. in. produces no black crud. You can deposit more Coulombs in the solution without running into misting. The electrodes stay clean. Stirring is not needed, and the cs stays clear. This means there are more silver ions in the water and available to kill germs and virus. I believe this is why it is much more effective than the stuff I used to make at 1.4 mA/sq. in. Best Regards, Mike Monett Appendix - Calculation of thickness lost on parallel plates Convert 500 gallons to litres: lt = 3.785 * gal = 3.785 * 500 = 1892.5 litres Calculate weight of silver assuming 15 ppm. ppm = mg / lt ; parts per million mg = ppm * lt = 15 * 1892.5 = 28387.5 milligrams = 28.3875 grams Calculate volume of silver at 10.5 gr/cm^3 cc = gm / 10.5 =
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60173.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Mike Monett Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:52:55 I think I goofed at the step calculating the amount of silver lost per side: Calculate thickness per side. ea = th / 3 = 7.2 / 3 = 2.4 mils The 50% duty cycle and arrangement of the plates has tripped me up several times. I thought I had it right, but now I'm not so sure. This is a tricky calculation! Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSProper jar cleaning
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60172.html Re: CSProper jar cleaning From: Ruth Bertella Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:47:44 Hi Mike - Last night, I put about an inch of CS in two different glasses (using two different batches of CS) as you requested. They both turned cloudy (kind of whitish) - although one seemed to have been a little cloudier than the other. Is this what it was supposed to have done? What does this tell you? I covered both glasses with saran wrap in case there were supposed to be additional changes by the time I get home this evening. Let me know Thanks Ruth Hi Ruth - Yes, thank you very much. The fact that you saw it easily, and it was milky instead of pale blue indicates the concentration is fairly high in both batches. The difference could be due to a number of factors: 1. The lighting must be identical for both samples. The easiest way to do this is to set them on a window ledge and step back several paces. 2. The glasses must be identical and clean. If one glass is by a differentmanufacturer,it mayhavedifferent optical characteristics. 3. If they are shaped differently, they will reflect light a different way. 4. If they have any kind of design, this will affect the apparent density of the cloud. 5. I assume you added enough salt so both solutions are saturated. Three shakes in about 1 inch of glass seems to be fine. 6. If the electrodes did turn black, this means small particles may be generated. These tend to agglomerate after a few days and reduce the concentration. 7. You mentioned your electrodes stay clean. This means very little particle generation, so few of the ions are lost making particles. 8. When all these factors are taken care of, the main reason for a difference in density is one brew may have taken longer than the other. This deposited more ions in solution, resulting in a higher ppm. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
Mike, I guess the reason for stirring is because I use higher current density because of the close electrode spacing on our high speed units and that absolutely requires it. The combination of the two speeds the process dramatically and that's what I was after when designing the unit. Most people want to make a good product and at the same time not wait a long time for the process to be done. I've accomplished that and am very pleased with the results as attested to by the fact that the CS never agglomerates (see the electron microscope photos) and is highly ionic. What more would one want than speed of production, ease of use, automatic shutoff and a good product? I'm not about to change the design just because someone says the electrodes will not blacken if I use much lower current and don't stir. That would also require increasing electrode spacing dramatically since I use one half inch spacing. I think you're not considering the water flow is vigorous enough there is minimal edge release of ions. I think the high flow rate is what contributes to even release of the ions across the entire surface of the electrodes. I may be wrong but so far I'm not in doubt. Anyway, the use of round wires is not an alternative and really isn't necessary since the generators work so well with flat electrodes. Why modify a good device? You have your ideas and that's fine but please stop knocking my generators without knowing the facts. I don't appreciate a self serving expert engineer coming along and telling people that my design and implementation is no good when in fact they are a very good product. In the years of manufacturing them I have not had one customer return one under our 30 day money back guarantee nor have I had one customer complain about yellowing which cannot be said of most of the other units available. Give me a break! Trem www.silvergen.com - Original Message - From: Mike Monett fcue0n...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:51 AM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60147.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:35 I test each SG7 individually by running a 1 1/2 gallon batch to assure the unit works properly before shipment. I also produce a batch every day or so to use around our household and also produce and give away as much as possible locally to those needing it. I conservatively estimate at least 500 gallons have been made using the test electrode which still looks original as far as shape is concerned. That is the edges of the electrodes (4) are not thin and sharp as you keep stating will be the fact. They started out at .013 inches and they are still that thickness as best I can measure. You are right. The effect is more likely to show up on the smaller system, which uses 0.25 plates. It won't sharpen the edge, but rather smooth it and also tend to reduce the width. But the plates are too thin to show much of a V due to the edge effect. They wear through too fast. The 1.5 plates on your production unit are much too wide to show this effect, except you might see some rounding of the corners. I calculated the loss in thickness assuming you run at 15 ppm, and found you may have lost about 2.4 thousandths of an inch in thickness on the inner pair of plates. This is negligible compared to the 1.5 width. The outer plates may have lost 1.2 mils, which might be hard to measure. This assumes no silver is lost on the outward-facing sides. But the edge effect shows where the current density is the highest. If you shut off the stirring, you should to see misting occur first at the edges of the cathode, then spread to the rest of the electrode. Misting is a sign of particle generation, which tends to limit the maximum ion concentration. I have not had much success using stirring to prevent this. I get strange side effects, such as the cs is not a strong as it should be according to the number of Coulombs transferred. It is not as effective as without stirring, and one sample coalesced and formed a small silver lump at the bottom of the glass when it was placed in a refrigerator. So I have abandoned stirring. The significance of the edge effect is if you want to run below the misting level, you have to reduce the current below the value you could reach with round wires. However, you could insulate the edges as Ole Bob has done, and your production unit might be an unbeatable system, especially if you added more plates - they are cheap and you have plenty of room. I don't know if the large plates would block the dispersal and lead to higher ion concentration, which could lead to misting. The advantage of round wires is the space between
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60176.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:31:40 Hi Trem, Thanks for taking the time to carefully review my post. I know we all started using the same kind of system, so everyone is used to the same result. But I was very surprised to find what happens at much lower current density. When does your system go into current limiting? At 30 ma and 22.5 sq. in. you are running at 30/22.5 = 1.33 mA/ sq. in. That is very close to what I used to use. So your process maintains a fairly high voltage across the cell for much of the brew time, and the current limiting doesn't start right away. These are ideal conditions for the formation of particles. Running at much lower current density (~100uA/sq. in) doesn't produce them for the same number of Coulombs transferred. But until we can get a good handle on measuring ppm consistently, this won't mean much to you. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60147.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:35 I test each SG7 individually by running a 1 1/2 gallon batch to assure the unit works properly before shipment. I also produce a batch every day or so to use around our household and also produce and give away as much as possible locally to those needing it. I conservatively estimate at least 500 gallons have been made using the test electrode which still looks original as far as shape is concerned. That is the edges of the electrodes (4) are not thin and sharp as you keep stating will be the fact. They started out at .013 inches and they are still that thickness as best I can measure. Trem, Something is wrong. If the electrodes started out at 0.013 inches, and you processed 500 gallons and they are still 0.013 inch, how much silver was deposited in the dw? Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
What do you guys have against particles? It might just be that they do the heavy lifting. Hey Frank, where are you when I need you? Let the game begin. - Original Message - From: Mike Monett fcue0n...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:32 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60176.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:31:40 Hi Trem, Thanks for taking the time to carefully review my post. I know we all started using the same kind of system, so everyone is used to the same result. But I was very surprised to find what happens at much lower current density. When does your system go into current limiting? At 30 ma and 22.5 sq. in. you are running at 30/22.5 = 1.33 mA/ sq. in. That is very close to what I used to use. So your process maintains a fairly high voltage across the cell for much of the brew time, and the current limiting doesn't start right away. These are ideal conditions for the formation of particles. Running at much lower current density (~100uA/sq. in) doesn't produce them for the same number of Coulombs transferred. But until we can get a good handle on measuring ppm consistently, this won't mean much to you. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
Trem, This is coming from someone who has no technical background and has no desire nor sees no need for my developing these skills. What is hard for me to understand is when others with backgrounds like mine make such a prodject out of what to me is a simple process.(fill a jar with DW, attach generator, turn power on) The way to solve running too long if their unit don't have auto shutoff would be to use a timer in the power line. I don't know why anyone would want to wash either their production jar or the storage jars. Don't CS do a better (complete) job of disinfecting than any soap or detergent? When I first started making CS I went to Mills Fleet Farm and got a case(12) qt. jars which come with lids for $7.89. I have several beneficiaries of my production. When they got their first jars full, I threatened them with excommunication and worse if they were to wash a jar. It must not be doing any harm because my neighbor has MS. At the time he started on CS symptoms of this affliction were showing up. Last week when he stopped in for a refill, he was euphoric, saying that all the symptoms were gone and that his energy level was what he felt it should be. My youngest daughter says it is the best nasal spray she has ever used. I'm not going to mention what it's done for me. Several of the list authorities on this process have at one time or the other stated that just about any type of equipment or pure silver electrodes along with good quality DS (which isn't hard to find, unless you want to have something to talk about) will make a good product. This I believe. I myself have a silvergen SG6. I have made close to 50 gal. There has never been a trace of color in any batch. I accidently used a gal. of drinking water for one batch. That was the only bad batch. As far as the silver electrodes wearing, I can barely detect a little weakness in one, and that is after about 50 gal. When it gets where I think it could be a problem, I intend to switch them. This should make the silver electrode cost about 10 cents a gal. What's the point in trying to beat that? There are apparently 2 or more mfg. of generators who contribute to the list. I'm sure they all do a creditable job. It is my sincere wish that they are all blessed with an abundance of business, until every household is equiped with one. With what is looming on the horizon, the more who are using CS the better. While on that thought, I am going to mention something that came up last week. My oldest daughter has a friend who makes a line of supplements. His hottest item is ionized silver. She told him about my making my own. He proved to be a short sighted fool by scaring the wits out of her with the turning blue B.S. I told her to tell him that he was helping to make the rope that the pharmaceutical/AMA people would hang him with. Penny wise and pound foolish. The title of the foregoing message is The Gospel on CS According To Robert. R.E.S. - Original Message - From: Trem t...@silvergen.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives Mike, I guess the reason for stirring is because I use higher current density because of the close electrode spacing on our high speed units and that absolutely requires it. The combination of the two speeds the process dramatically and that's what I was after when designing the unit. Most people want to make a good product and at the same time not wait a long time for the process to be done. I've accomplished that and am very pleased with the results as attested to by the fact that the CS never agglomerates (see the electron microscope photos) and is highly ionic. What more would one want than speed of production, ease of use, automatic shutoff and a good product? I'm not about to change the design just because someone says the electrodes will not blacken if I use much lower current and don't stir. That would also require increasing electrode spacing dramatically since I use one half inch spacing. I think you're not considering the water flow is vigorous enough there is minimal edge release of ions. I think the high flow rate is what contributes to even release of the ions across the entire surface of the electrodes. I may be wrong but so far I'm not in doubt. Anyway, the use of round wires is not an alternative and really isn't necessary since the generators work so well with flat electrodes. Why modify a good device? You have your ideas and that's fine but please stop knocking my generators without knowing the facts. I don't appreciate a self serving expert engineer coming along and telling people that my design and implementation is no good when in fact they are a very good product. In the years of manufacturing them I have not had one customer return one under our 30 day money back guarantee nor have I had one customer complain about yellowing which cannot be said of most of the
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
At 12:51 PM 6/13/03, you wrote: You are right. The effect is more likely to show up on the smaller system, which uses 0.25 plates. It won't sharpen the edge, but rather smooth it and also tend to reduce the width. But the plates are too thin to show much of a V due to the edge effect. They wear through too fast. Mike, True there is going to be some edge effect. But thats not the bulk of the current. When you place 2 flat conductors next to each other with an insulator in between you have a capacitor. And the electrostatic field covers the entire surface of both conductors connecting them with a constant supply of ions being generated between them. With the mechanical stirring sweeping the ions away as soon as they are formed. This method allows for a highly ionic solution to be made quickly. The beauty of using plates as your electrodes is the electrostatic field is larger because more surface area is aligned. +- Bentonite Clay for sale-+ http://pages.sbcglobal.net/davebe/clay.html ¦ David Bearrow ¦ ¦ dav...@sbcglobal.net ¦ + Phone: (972)722-8319 + -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
Mike, Yes, like most others I started off with constant voltage/no current limiting many years ago and immediately found that it was not repeatable. I spent some time working empirically using current limiting, no additives, various surface areas and run times before coming out with the first generator...the SG3. It had no shutoff, did not stir and used a cable to connect to the electrodes. That's basically the same as the SG5 we still sell. I always try to talk a person into the SG6 if possible because I know it has all the bells and whistles. But anyway, I found the ideal surface area to current density and have stuck with it. It works well so no need to further experiment. If it aint broke...don't fix it. Current limiting starts very quickly because of the close proximity of the electrodes to each other. It is regulating within a few minutes. Your statement that it is prone to making particles doesn't jibe. Our mix is typically 85% ionic. I don't think 15% particulate is out of reason. In fact I like to see some particles in the mix since I'm not completely sure they don't work. And as I have said many times...the particles are SMALL and do not agglomerate. And lastly, our units are highly repeatable from batch to batch so as far as I'm concerned further testing to determine strength is a moot point. Been there...done that using AA. I just received an email from a customer that is making 5 gallons a day and doing it 7 days a week. She says the electrodes are still the same shape and the water never turns color. She said it would be OK to put the post on list but since it's a testimonial I'm not comfortable doing so because it might appear to be too commercial, although I do see many folks touting their favorite generators on list. Want to see the testimonial? Hopefully you won't find something else to fault our units. I think they're the best ones available. Too bad you hadn't tried one before you started badmouthing them. Trem www.silvergen.com - Original Message - From: Mike Monett fcue0n...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:32 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60176.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:31:40 Hi Trem, Thanks for taking the time to carefully review my post. I know we all started using the same kind of system, so everyone is used to the same result. But I was very surprised to find what happens at much lower current density. When does your system go into current limiting? At 30 ma and 22.5 sq. in. you are running at 30/22.5 = 1.33 mA/ sq. in. That is very close to what I used to use. So your process maintains a fairly high voltage across the cell for much of the brew time, and the current limiting doesn't start right away. These are ideal conditions for the formation of particles. Running at much lower current density (~100uA/sq. in) doesn't produce them for the same number of Coulombs transferred. But until we can get a good handle on measuring ppm consistently, this won't mean much to you. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
Mike, No, it's just that I'm using a dial caliper and it's really hard to get a good reading because of the corrugations. Obviously it is now thinner but since the degradation appears to be evenly distributed between all the electrodes I suspect it will be some time before I can see any significant measurable change. Trem - Original Message - From: Mike Monett fcue0n...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 2:03 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60147.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:35 I test each SG7 individually by running a 1 1/2 gallon batch to assure the unit works properly before shipment. I also produce a batch every day or so to use around our household and also produce and give away as much as possible locally to those needing it. I conservatively estimate at least 500 gallons have been made using the test electrode which still looks original as far as shape is concerned. That is the edges of the electrodes (4) are not thin and sharp as you keep stating will be the fact. They started out at .013 inches and they are still that thickness as best I can measure. Trem, Something is wrong. If the electrodes started out at 0.013 inches, and you processed 500 gallons and they are still 0.013 inch, how much silver was deposited in the dw? Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
Hi Bob, Whatever you (and all CS users) do, don't wash the vessel with a liquid detergent. The detergent contains surfactants that will stick to the glass and cause agglomeration. If you feel inclined it is OK to wash them in the dishwasher because that soap doesn't have any surfactant. If you do use liquid soap or detergent my recommendation is to toss the jar and start with a new one. The CS will turn yellow until you get all the soap out of it. I have many customers that have had great success with MS using CS made with our units. I could knock your socks off with some of the anecdotal stories. And that's regarding many other maladies other than MS. I too want to see a generator in every household before the powers that be close the window of self help. It's a long uphill road however since I now see they are speeding up the disinformation campaign against us. Best regards, Trem www.silvergen.com - Original Message - From: bob smith rresm...@attbi.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 5:32 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives Trem, This is coming from someone who has no technical background and has no desire nor sees no need for my developing these skills. What is hard for me to understand is when others with backgrounds like mine make such a prodject out of what to me is a simple process.(fill a jar with DW, attach generator, turn power on) The way to solve running too long if their unit don't have auto shutoff would be to use a timer in the power line. I don't know why anyone would want to wash either their production jar or the storage jars. Don't CS do a better (complete) job of disinfecting than any soap or detergent? When I first started making CS I went to Mills Fleet Farm and got a case(12) qt. jars which come with lids for $7.89. I have several beneficiaries of my production. When they got their first jars full, I threatened them with excommunication and worse if they were to wash a jar. It must not be doing any harm because my neighbor has MS. At the time he started on CS symptoms of this affliction were showing up. Last week when he stopped in for a refill, he was euphoric, saying that all the symptoms were gone and that his energy level was what he felt it should be. My youngest daughter says it is the best nasal spray she has ever used. I'm not going to mention what it's done for me. Several of the list authorities on this process have at one time or the other stated that just about any type of equipment or pure silver electrodes along with good quality DS (which isn't hard to find, unless you want to have something to talk about) will make a good product. This I believe. I myself have a silvergen SG6. I have made close to 50 gal. There has never been a trace of color in any batch. I accidently used a gal. of drinking water for one batch. That was the only bad batch. As far as the silver electrodes wearing, I can barely detect a little weakness in one, and that is after about 50 gal. When it gets where I think it could be a problem, I intend to switch them. This should make the silver electrode cost about 10 cents a gal. What's the point in trying to beat that? There are apparently 2 or more mfg. of generators who contribute to the list. I'm sure they all do a creditable job. It is my sincere wish that they are all blessed with an abundance of business, until every household is equiped with one. With what is looming on the horizon, the more who are using CS the better. While on that thought, I am going to mention something that came up last week. My oldest daughter has a friend who makes a line of supplements. His hottest item is ionized silver. She told him about my making my own. He proved to be a short sighted fool by scaring the wits out of her with the turning blue B.S. I told her to tell him that he was helping to make the rope that the pharmaceutical/AMA people would hang him with. Penny wise and pound foolish. The title of the foregoing message is The Gospel on CS According To Robert. R.E.S. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
bob smith I just want to say, YOU are right, I make my own CS without the bells, I use an 15Vdc power supply from a went south scanner to two #12 . wires of silver, I use a Hanna PWT to check (calibrated the HI 7033 calibration solution) I haven't had one bad batch yet. I love all the talk from Trem and Mike and all the others, But man it is all good, If you are going to sale it then you need to read all this, If you are just going to use it, Then it is all good, you don't need to sale your produce so just make it and forget the sales talk they are doing. Sincerely Yours, Hank http://hdka.stormpages.com/indexf.html http://www.babelmagazine.com/wing.html http://members.myecom.net/hdka/ct/ct.html - Original Message - From: bob smith To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives Trem, This is coming from someone who has no technical background and has no desire nor sees no need for my developing these skills. What is hard for me to understand is when others with backgrounds like mine make such a prodject out of what to me is a simple process.(fill a jar with DW, attach generator, turn power on) The way to solve running too long if their unit don't have auto shutoff would be to use a timer in the power line. I don't know why anyone would want to wash either their production jar or the storage jars. Don't CS do a better (complete) job of disinfecting than any soap or detergent? When I first started making CS I went to Mills Fleet Farm and got a case(12) qt. jars which come with lids for $7.89. I have several beneficiaries of my production. When they got their first jars full, I threatened them with excommunication and worse if they were to wash a jar. It must not be doing any harm because my neighbor has MS. At the time he started on CS symptoms of this affliction were showing up. Last week when he stopped in for a refill, he was euphoric, saying that all the symptoms were gone and that his energy level was what he felt it should be. My youngest daughter says it is the best nasal spray she has ever used. I'm not going to mention what it's done for me. Several of the list authorities on this process have at one time or the other stated that just about any type of equipment or pure silver electrodes along with good quality DS (which isn't hard to find, unless you want to have something to talk about) will make a good product. This I believe. I myself have a silvergen SG6. I have made close to 50 gal. There has never been a trace of color in any batch. I accidently used a gal. of drinking water for one batch. That was the only bad batch. As far as the silver electrodes wearing, I can barely detect a little weakness in one, and that is after about 50 gal. When it gets where I think it could be a problem, I intend to switch them. This should make the silver electrode cost about 10 cents a gal. What's the point in trying to beat that? There are apparently 2 or more mfg. of generators who contribute to the list. I'm sure they all do a creditable job. It is my sincere wish that they are all blessed with an abundance of business, until every household is equiped with one. With what is looming on the horizon, the more who are using CS the better. While on that thought, I am going to mention something that came up last week. My oldest daughter has a friend who makes a line of supplements. His hottest item is ionized silver. She told him about my making my own. He proved to be a short sighted fool by scaring the wits out of her with the turning blue B.S. I told her to tell him that he was helping to make the rope that the pharmaceutical/AMA people would hang him with. Penny wise and pound foolish. The title of the foregoing message is The Gospel on CS According To Robert. R.E.S. - Original Message - From: Trem t...@silvergen.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/03
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60182.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:08:47 Hopefully you won't find something else to fault our units. I think they're the best ones available. Too bad you hadn't tried one before you started badmouthing them. Hi Trem, I really didn't know anyone made siver generators with flat electrodes until you started posting. I am not badmouthing you or your product. The field configuration on parallel plates is well understood. For example, please see Electrostatic Boundary Value Problems Many problems in ... ... above are each dependent on only one variable. ... conductors (sharp edges) where electric field fringing is seen ... www.ece.msstate.edu/~donohoe/ece3313notes6.pdf The advantage you have is you can insulate the edges and eliminate the problem. This would make your system unbeatable. We do not have this priviledge in electronics. We have to put up with the effects, and there is no way around it at high frequencies. Unfortunately, according to my calculations, the test electrodes you are holding in your hand should have disappeared long ago. This is why I thought there was a problem with my calculation and why I changed it: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60174.html But now I think my original calculation was correct. If your electrodes are still visible, and they still have 0.013 inch thickness after 500 gallons, your ppm must be very low. There is something wrong with your system, and I am sorry to be the one to have discovered it. I would spend the time to do an accurate calculation, but I don't think it is needed. If this is the depletion rate of your electrodes, and the rest of your systems perform the same, you are at least an order of magnitude off. This is the reason why your cs never turns yellow or plates out. But it can be fixed easily. After going through the calculations, I am impressed with what a system using parallel plates could achieve by using very low current density and insulating the edges. I am currently looking for local suppliers for flat silver, since monsterslayer charges an exhorbitant rate to ship to Canada. I think I have found a few, and will see what develops. I will post my findings, and I'm sure they will please you. I have no interest in producing cs generators or trying to attract any business in this area. I have other things much more challenging. Thank you for your time and interest. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSCalibrating your PWT
Greetings, Recently there have been postings regarding PWT calibration. On a CS website is a table showing the mg of salt in a liter of water to produce various readings: The following table shows a typical conversion of the PWT readings: µS/cm ReadingResistivitymg/L of NaCl 99.9 10 Kohms 48 10 100 Kohms 4.3 1 1 Mohms 0.4 0.110 Mohms 0.04 (sorry if the columns don't line up) The 10 uS one is of most interest to us. So, how could one make their own calibration solution without access to a precision scale? For example, knowing the distilled water temperature, could one saturate the solution with NaCl and have it be a predictable mg/L strength - then dilute it down to 4.3 mg/L? Chemists - what say ye? Scheme #2: The PWT meter comes apart fairly, easily exposing the two connections to the electrodes. So it is easy to bridge those connections with a precision resistor and note the digital display reading. I tried that using the resistor values above and did not get the readings shown above. So I am wondering if the sampling volume is not one cubic cm and Hanna scales the reading to make it as though it was exactly one cubic cm? If that is the case, then does anyone know the correct test resistance (actually reciprocal resistance, mhos)-to-display factor? Thanks, --Steve Y. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
500 gallons X 8lbs X 16 = 64000 X .20 (ppm?) = 1.28 ounces of silver used. I should think that that amount of missing silver would be noticeable. Something wrong with my thinking here? Mass is Mass, correct? - Original Message - From: Mike Monett fcue0n...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60182.html Re: CS$$$ perpectives From: Trem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:08:47 Hopefully you won't find something else to fault our units. I think they're the best ones available. Too bad you hadn't tried one before you started badmouthing them. Hi Trem, I really didn't know anyone made siver generators with flat electrodes until you started posting. I am not badmouthing you or your product. The field configuration on parallel plates is well understood. For example, please see Electrostatic Boundary Value Problems Many problems in ... ... above are each dependent on only one variable. ... conductors (sharp edges) where electric field fringing is seen ... www.ece.msstate.edu/~donohoe/ece3313notes6.pdf The advantage you have is you can insulate the edges and eliminate the problem. This would make your system unbeatable. We do not have this priviledge in electronics. We have to put up with the effects, and there is no way around it at high frequencies. Unfortunately, according to my calculations, the test electrodes you are holding in your hand should have disappeared long ago. This is why I thought there was a problem with my calculation and why I changed it: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60174.html But now I think my original calculation was correct. If your electrodes are still visible, and they still have 0.013 inch thickness after 500 gallons, your ppm must be very low. There is something wrong with your system, and I am sorry to be the one to have discovered it. I would spend the time to do an accurate calculation, but I don't think it is needed. If this is the depletion rate of your electrodes, and the rest of your systems perform the same, you are at least an order of magnitude off. This is the reason why your cs never turns yellow or plates out. But it can be fixed easily. After going through the calculations, I am impressed with what a system using parallel plates could achieve by using very low current density and insulating the edges. I am currently looking for local suppliers for flat silver, since monsterslayer charges an exhorbitant rate to ship to Canada. I think I have found a few, and will see what develops. I will post my findings, and I'm sure they will please you. I have no interest in producing cs generators or trying to attract any business in this area. I have other things much more challenging. Thank you for your time and interest. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSStrange results
I usually wake up a couple of times in the middle of the night and drink water. I run tap water through a Brita filter. In the last 6 months or so I have been adding CS to the glass of water that I keep by the bed. Last night the CS turned the tap water a faint red color almost instantly. Recently I changed my process from making one pint at a time to making 4 pints at a time. Instead of using a one pint beer glass, I now use a 4 pint mason jar. I use two pieces of 12 gauge silver wire that are wetted in DW to four and one half inches. To agitate the solution, I use the second hand movement from a cheap clock motor. I attach monofilament fishing line to the clock motor and suspend a small piece of silver to the bottom of the electrodes. I'm using about 300 uA to keep the electrodes from turning black. I'm running it for about 12 to 14 hours. The solution finishes clear but sometimes turns a very faint yellow after a few days. The brew vessel is always scrubbed good - without soap - and rinsed several times in DW. I've made red CS in the past by hitting it with 100 VDC and letting it run violently for a while. Lots of black streamers and bubbles (^_^). But I've never seen my clear or faint yellow CS turn the tap water red, even when I was using my older, higher current, wipe the black stuff off of the electrodes process. Any comments or suggestions? Andy
CSSludge on LVDC Electrodes
To: Mike Monett Mike, I have some photos of CS electrode coated with sludge, using LVDC. I tried sending them to your last reported address (fcue0n...@sneakemail.com), but the email was bounced. How may I get the info to you? I hope that you are feeling better, these days. Best regards, :) Marv
Re: CSStrange results
I would sure want to know what they have added to your tap water. I wouldn't drink it till I knew. Sincerely Yours, Hank - Original Message - From: ascottsil...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: CSStrange results I usually wake up a couple of times in the middle of the night and drink water. I run tap water through a Brita filter. In the last 6 months or so I have been adding CS to the glass of water that I keep by the bed. Last night the CS turned the tap water a faint red color almost instantly. Recently I changed my process from making one pint at a time to making 4 pints at a time. Instead of using a one pint beer glass, I now use a 4 pint mason jar. I use two pieces of 12 gauge silver wire that are wetted in DW to four and one half inches. To agitate the solution, I use the second hand movement from a cheap clock motor. I attach monofilament fishing line to the clock motor and suspend a small piece of silver to the bottom of the electrodes. I'm using about 300 uA to keep the electrodes from turning black. I'm running it for about 12 to 14 hours. The solution finishes clear but sometimes turns a very faint yellow after a few days. The brew vessel is always scrubbed good - without soap - and rinsed several times in DW. I've made red CS in the past by hitting it with 100 VDC and letting it run violently for a while. Lots of black streamers and bubbles (^_^). But I've never seen my clear or faint yellow CS turn the tap water red, even when I was using my older, higher current, wipe the black stuff off of the electrodes process. Any comments or suggestions? Andy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/03
Re: CS$$$ perpectives
Trem, Read my post again. I thought I made it clear that I never had or would wash any container used for CS. While I don't understand the technical discussions on production between those of you who have the background in that area, I do find it interesting. I'm sure that nothing but good can come from it. And a special word of praise to those who while they have no commercial interest in CS or any other health related matter, devote a lot of time giving good advise.Bob S. - Original Message - From: Trem t...@silvergen.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 8:10 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives Hi Bob, Whatever you (and all CS users) do, don't wash the vessel with a liquid detergent. The detergent contains surfactants that will stick to the glass and cause agglomeration. If you feel inclined it is OK to wash them in the dishwasher because that soap doesn't have any surfactant. If you do use liquid soap or detergent my recommendation is to toss the jar and start with a new one. The CS will turn yellow until you get all the soap out of it. I have many customers that have had great success with MS using CS made with our units. I could knock your socks off with some of the anecdotal stories. And that's regarding many other maladies other than MS. I too want to see a generator in every household before the powers that be close the window of self help. It's a long uphill road however since I now see they are speeding up the disinformation campaign against us. Best regards, Trem www.silvergen.com - Original Message - From: bob smith rresm...@attbi.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 5:32 PM Subject: Re: CS$$$ perpectives Trem, This is coming from someone who has no technical background and has no desire nor sees no need for my developing these skills. What is hard for me to understand is when others with backgrounds like mine make such a prodject out of what to me is a simple process.(fill a jar with DW, attach generator, turn power on) The way to solve running too long if their unit don't have auto shutoff would be to use a timer in the power line. I don't know why anyone would want to wash either their production jar or the storage jars. Don't CS do a better (complete) job of disinfecting than any soap or detergent? When I first started making CS I went to Mills Fleet Farm and got a case(12) qt. jars which come with lids for $7.89. I have several beneficiaries of my production. When they got their first jars full, I threatened them with excommunication and worse if they were to wash a jar. It must not be doing any harm because my neighbor has MS. At the time he started on CS symptoms of this affliction were showing up. Last week when he stopped in for a refill, he was euphoric, saying that all the symptoms were gone and that his energy level was what he felt it should be. My youngest daughter says it is the best nasal spray she has ever used. I'm not going to mention what it's done for me. Several of the list authorities on this process have at one time or the other stated that just about any type of equipment or pure silver electrodes along with good quality DS (which isn't hard to find, unless you want to have something to talk about) will make a good product. This I believe. I myself have a silvergen SG6. I have made close to 50 gal. There has never been a trace of color in any batch. I accidently used a gal. of drinking water for one batch. That was the only bad batch. As far as the silver electrodes wearing, I can barely detect a little weakness in one, and that is after about 50 gal. When it gets where I think it could be a problem, I intend to switch them. This should make the silver electrode cost about 10 cents a gal. What's the point in trying to beat that? There are apparently 2 or more mfg. of generators who contribute to the list. I'm sure they all do a creditable job. It is my sincere wish that they are all blessed with an abundance of business, until every household is equiped with one. With what is looming on the horizon, the more who are using CS the better. While on that thought, I am going to mention something that came up last week. My oldest daughter has a friend who makes a line of supplements. His hottest item is ionized silver. She told him about my making my own. He proved to be a short sighted fool by scaring the wits out of her with the turning blue B.S. I told her to tell him that he was helping to make the rope that the pharmaceutical/AMA people would hang him with. Penny wise and pound foolish. The title of the foregoing message is The Gospel on CS According To Robert. R.E.S. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at:
Re: CSppm lab results and quirks
Atomic absorption/emission will measure total silver which includes ions and particles. Here is the equipment used at CSL: http://www.colloidalsciencelab.com/Equipment/VarianICP.html frank key www.colloidalsciencelab.com - Original Message - From: Reid Harvey pott...@wlink.com.np To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:15 PM Subject: CSppm lab results and quirks Hi! I'm getting some confusing results here, from lab tests for ppm of concentrated CS. One lab is saying 50ppm in atomic absorption, but that they cannot measure for particulate silver with the technique. Another lab is saying 900ppm for another sample from the same batch, though telling me this is inaccurate and they'll repeat the procedure. But they're doing some titration process, which presumably does account for particulate silver. Is it true that atomic absorption will only measure ions? Does anybody know of some kind of simplified information that list all the various characterization techniques that apply? I'm thinking I'll try to get hold of the Hannah PWT device, a little more independent of the idiosyncrasies. Reid -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSquestions
Hi, am new to the list, but as reading Trem's letter in regards to stories re MS, I would like to hear them as my sister is in nursing home with MS. Also, have plenty of silver now, but would like to know some good places to get good silver reasonable. I have the generator GNC sells (elec or battery). We have been taking at least 1 tablespoon daily. Is this about normal. I usually test at 14 to 22 ppm. Is this ok? Thanks guys for all the advice. Leslie __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSppm lab results and quirks
According to Bruce Marx, very few chemists know how to accurately analyze CS. A sample I sent to a major lab in Albuquerque came back 0.6 PPM when B. Berger and Bruce measured it at within 1 PPM of the 10 that I got with wet chemistry. Just from the Tynday observation it had to be greater than 5 PPM. JOH -Original Message- From: Reid Harvey [mailto:pott...@wlink.com.np] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:15 PM To: silver list Subject: CSppm lab results and quirks Hi! I'm getting some confusing results here, from lab tests for ppm of concentrated CS. One lab is saying 50ppm in atomic absorption, but that they cannot measure for particulate silver with the technique. Another lab is saying 900ppm for another sample from the same batch, though telling me this is inaccurate and they'll repeat the procedure. But they're doing some titration process, which presumably does account for particulate silver. Is it true that atomic absorption will only measure ions? Does anybody know of some kind of simplified information that list all the various characterization techniques that apply? I'm thinking I'll try to get hold of the Hannah PWT device, a little more independent of the idiosyncrasies. Reid -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe Heating CS
would heating CS harm it. I want to try to concentrate CS via distillation. Ed Kasper Santa Cruz, CA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
