Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63423.html Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms From: Mike Monett Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:59:45 Never mind. I figured it out. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: About a extraordinary experiment
Hi: Today's comments. I will not necessarily agree with this tomorrow. I am repeating the experiment with a larger amount of water. This experiment can be conducted by anybody, so what are you guys waiting for? First, in here we are talking zero current. So we cannot invoke Faraday or any phenomenon related to electromagnetic energy. I try that experiment after after reading, Karl Reichenback The dynamics of magnetism, electricity , etc. in relation to the vital force, Published in 1845, the guy who originated the term OD (odic energy) and Whihelm Reich's, The cancer biopathy, published in 1948, who originated the term Orgone energy. Hold it don't jump on my , yet. My basic training is on physics and optomechanical engineering so I have hear all the arguments before. I must remind you that Newton believed in the existence of the ether so did Tesla, I would never risk ignoring these guys. It is true that the electromagnetic theory is very useful and have resulted in great progress in physics and chemistry, but although those are great theories they are not necessarily the final word. If Reichenback and Reich were correct (or partially so), there is a form of subtle energy that defies the second law of thermodynamics. the yogis have been talking about this for 6 thousand years and they were the same people who stated that mass and energy are the same thing and they did this way before physicist have any notions about it. This energy would emanate from the positive pole of a battery, or a coil without requiring the ground connection, also from magnets. I am not endorsing any of the about, yet. I just have started looking into this. I am posting this to show that there is no hoax involved here. I will be posting the progress ( if any ) in the near future. I have been making CS for several years. I have used from the beginning a constant current supply based on the LM334Z and the Sota supply. The resulting product are always clear and perfectly transparent. the final conductivity is from 15 to 20 uS. I cannot get a coloration if I try for it. The currents were 0.2mA, 1mA and 3mA. The electrodes were straight, U and W shaped. When I try the salt test I generally see a mild whitish cloud, when the illumination is from the top. I don't feel conformable with my observations of such small difference in cloudiness to make any sort of judgment. Regards Peter R -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: Measuring ppms
OK---to what does the Pure Water Test reading get compared? Depends on what you want to do... Let's say you acquire the PWT instrument you plan on getting and, right out of the box, it indicates your CS is 10 ppm. How do you prove the reading is correct or incorrect? jr -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms
Hi Mike, the answer is that even pure water dissociates to a limited degree, providing ions of H2O + H2O == H3O(+) + OH(-) according to the Bronsted Lowry concept, or(and) H2O == H(+) +OH(-) both of these reactions being reversible, and at 25*C producing concentrations of hydrogen ion (or hydronium ion) of 1.0*10(-7) moles per liter as well as the same hydroxide ion concentration of 1.0*10(-7) Moles per liter. Hence, ultimately, the log base ten pH scale is derived where pH = log(1/H(+)), or for pure water at 25*C: pH = log(1/1.0*10(-7)) = log(10(7)) = 7. The Bronsted Lowry Proton Transfer theory takes note of the fact that a Hydrogen ion H(+) is just a proton, since it lost it's one electron when it became an ion. This proton will immediately attach itself to a molecule of water forming the hydronium ion, above,or (in non-water solutions, for instance) to a more basic molecule or ion. Take care, Malcolm At 01:57 AM 10/12/03 -0400, you wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63420.html CSRe: Measuring ppms From: Jrowland Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:37:00 OK---to what does the Pure Water Test reading get compared? jr Depends on what you want to do. Now I have a question for you. You are an oldtimer on the list, and may have come across a discussion about it. Electrons cannot propagate in an electrolyte. Current flow is through the movement of ions only. BTW, Mike, this is not strictly true, but it may be so for aqueous electrolytes - dunno. Hey, if water swaps protons around in the form of hydronium ions, does that mean it's a semiconductor and 'holes' propagate?? In the cs process, some trace contaminants must already be in the water in the form of ions in order to start the process. The ions in the vicinity of each electrode move to their respective electrodes and gain or lose electrons as appropriate. The ones further away may know an electric field is present, but their drift velocity due to the electric field is perhaps orders of magnitude less than their thermal velocity, and much less than the diffusion velocity. Diffusion velocity?? If I'm going 100 mph back and forth randomly, and at the same time I'm propagating steadily toward San Francisco at 10 mph, I'm gonna get there; the traffic opposing me cannot be any thicker than the traffic going my way. So the ions basically cannot respond to the applied electric field. This resurfaces a question in my mind, will the electric field provoke increased ionisation in pure water? Yet for electrolysis to begin, there must be a continuous path through the water from one electrode to the other. Why? I don't know the answer. If you can figure it out, please tell me. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
For people who are testing water, a difference of 10 or 20 uS probably isn't going to kill em. Nor will it harm us...BUT [doesn't help us much in what we're trying to do.] The water people are probably not trying to compare water readings to something else or add/subtract anything to thier water where the reading is not compared before/after to get a uS gain or decrease. ..and if they were, how would they know? It would seem that us IESers are every instrument makers nightmare. :-) [We have some idea that we should be getting something specific and what it should be.] Ode At 10:47 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63382.html Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms From: Ode Coyote Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:08:22 Ken, Thanks you for some very important information on PWT problems. My turn. All I can say is WOW. I got hints of PWT problems from reading the archives, but nothing concrete and definite as you have shown. No one should be offended. You are not attacking anyone. You are simply stating the truth. If you get a bad response, then that person simply doesn't care about their responsibilities. The PWT seems to be the only inexpensive method of measuring uS. If you are experiencing problems of this magnitude for single ion species, what kind of problems are the people having who measure water quality? That's the stuff most people drink, you know:) I think you are starting to open Pandora's box. That's good. It's time. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
At 06:25 AM 10/12/03 -0400, you wrote: For people who are testing water, a difference of 10 or 20 uS probably isn't going to kill em. Nor will it harm us...BUT [doesn't help us much in what we're trying to do.] The water people are probably not trying to compare water readings to something else or add/subtract anything to thier water where the reading is not compared before/after to get a uS gain or decrease. ..and if they were, how would they know? It would seem that us IESers are every instrument makers nightmare. :-) [We have some idea that we should be getting something specific and what it should be.] Ode This is not a big-time problem; instruments that measure to 0.1 micro Siemen are available off the shelf for about $100. For 5 times that you can get down to nano. All of these can be gotten with NIST certification for under $100 additional, and can be recalibrated in the field with standard solutions and if necessary returned to the maker for NIST recert. At 10:47 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63382.html Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms From: Ode Coyote Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:08:22 Ken, Thanks you for some very important information on PWT problems. My turn. All I can say is WOW. I got hints of PWT problems from reading the archives, but nothing concrete and definite as you have shown. No one should be offended. You are not attacking anyone. You are simply stating the truth. If you get a bad response, then that person simply doesn't care about their responsibilities. The PWT seems to be the only inexpensive method of measuring uS. If you are experiencing problems of this magnitude for single ion species, what kind of problems are the people having who measure water quality? That's the stuff most people drink, you know:) I think you are starting to open Pandora's box. That's good. It's time. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
So, If it's 60 deg F the adjustment should still be to 84 uS ? It's only about a 10 uS difference. Is there a line in the calibration instructions that state that? Essentially: PWT Instructions read..insert meter, twiddle screw till it reads 84 uS. [no mention of using chart] Why is the temp chart even there? Quickie test of temp compensation with sol and PWT in baggie held warming in hand... [not too scientific but if compensation works, reading shouldn't change] Insert PTW in baggie of sol and wait for it to stop hunting, then hold it all in warm hand PWT#1- Reading increases by 8 uS within about a minute. PWT#2 -Reading increases by 3 uS within about a minute. Humm...doesn't look too good. Not intended to quantify anything as heat soak rates may be different, but it does sorta demonstrate that the temp compensation is likely a myth. [or something conductive is leaching out of the baggie when electricity is introduced?] More exact test needed as the difference between meters points to another 'possible' problem when using the chart. I'll try this: [in a pyrex lab beaker] Measure temp of sol with digital thermometer..adjust everything to chart. Increase temp of sol to a couple of levels as per the chart and see if the change in reading matches. That's not to say that the 'thermometer' is properly calibrated. [I could compare it to other questionable thermometers, ey?] or that nothing leaches out of lab glass. We just might be living in a whole instrumental world of inexactitude. Look. I'm aware that everything in life has it's limits but are still useful. So, if elements in your life don't match mine, it doesn't pay to freak out and start an arguement when it really doesn't matter. [That's the point...nothing is true...and it doesn't matter all that much ] Life has a lot of give to it. ..sorta spongy, if you catch my drift. Science is an art. CS making is even more of an art. Hanna is subject to real life too. ..and 'most' people claim they are perfect when the reality is... that none of us are. Very bottom line: If you like the CS you make and it does the job for you when used the way you use it...it's the good stuff. If you think you can do better...do better. Discussing what better 'is', helps us all progress in our efforts but doesn't exactly describe it. Words themselves are inaccurate. Besides that, no two people even live on the same planet. They only look similar enough to fool us into believing that we do. Ode At 08:26 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Vince, > >The PWT has a temperature compensator. The s.s. tube on the left side is >the probe. So, when calibrating just let it stabilize at whatever >temperature the solution is and then check the meter to make sure it reads >84.0 uS. Make sure you wait until the meter stops hunting. > >Here's the calibration info on the bottle label. You'll see that 84.0 uS is >the reading at 77 F. > >°C °F uS/cm >0 32.0 64 >5 41.0 65 >10 50.0 67 >15 59.0 68 >16 60.8 70 >17 62.6 71 >18 64.4 73 >19 66.2 74 >20 68.0 76 >21 69.8 78 >22 71.6 79 >23 73.4 81 >24 75.2 82 >25 77.0 84 >26 78.8 86 >27 80.6 87 >28 82.4 89 >29 842 90 >30 86.0 92 >31 87.8 94 > >I hope this helps. > >Trem > > > >- Original Message - >From: Vince Richter cvin...@ala.net> >To: silver-list@eskimo.com> >Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 8:13 PM >Subject: [silver_list] CS>Trem; was RE: CS>Measuring very high ppms > > >> Trem, since the subject came up, how much difference does the >> calibration temperature make? I know the cal needs to be done at a >> certain temp. Would there be a ballpark correlation between calibration >> error and temp. deviation from the standard during calibration? Is >> there a uS per degree F deviation ballpark error (in the 10-20 uS >> range)? The reason I ask is that I have both the PWT and the cal >> solution. I haven't used the solution yet because I have no reason to >> believe it's out of cal. The uS I read in my CS was within 1 ppm of the >> ppm CS Ole Bob measured. When the time comes and I calibrate my meter, >> I wondered how meticulous I need to be, and how much difference a few >> degrees would make. >> >> Thanks, Vince >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com] >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:21 PM >> To: silver-list@eskimo.com >> Subject: CS>Measuring very high ppms >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com> >> To: silver-list@eskimo.com> >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM >> Subject: [silver_list] Re: CS>Re: Measuring very high ppms >> >> >> > >> > The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find some way >> > to guarantee the calibration. Steve Young's idea to make resistive >> > standards might be an excellent solution. >> >> > Mike Monett >> >> Mike, >> >> The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution >> from >> Hanna. I got one box of
CSOT - mg/mcg
Debbie, Please take your pills and the full description of Marshalee's medications (snip) Since when are minerals considered medications?? Marshalee
Re: CSMarshalee--schematic
A friend of mine who is not very computer literate needs a schematic on how to make herself a generator. She has wire available, but is having trouble figuring out just how to hook everything up. Marshalee, I am pretty sure she has Lyme disease. She lived for years in tick country and knows she was bitten. She has been diagnosed with this and that (they finally settled on fibromyalgia), has to walk with a cane, and frequently is confined to bed. And sure, I can find a good (enough) sch. on the web, but I have a feeling it would be a good thing for her to get it from you and get acquainted with you. You are upbeat and she could use that, as well as your enthusiasm for cs. So if you can send a site addy, I will get it to her, along with this list addy. Now that I'm addled, signing offpj Maybe this will help... Marshalee To make CS, you`ll need: either 3 nine-volt batteries, the square ones, (the Lithiums last 4 times longer than the alkalines) or a Power Adapter from RadioShack,13.5/30V 1000mA Power Adapter using household electricity, filtered output. Number 263-1668. Cost is under $25.00 at RadioShack. 2 five-inch pieces of pure silver wire, 14 gauge, .999 fine, (not sterling, as it has other metals in it) 2 alligator clips, (the kind with 2 clips on either end of a plastic-coated wire, also available at Radio Shack) 2 cups of steam-distilled water in a glass measuring cup, (I always use glass to make CS in. I have a cup used solely for making my CS.) A new green scrubber, just for this purpose. An empty water bottle to store your finished CS in. A pop top plastic bottle is just fine. Rinse the cup and storage bottle with distilled water to remove any dust or soap residue. If using the batteries, snap them together, one upside down on top of the other two. This will leave two empty posts on the batteries. Connect each of the silver wires to the two empty posts with the two alligator clips. Drop the wires into the water, with about 4 inches submerged, and about 1 inch apart. (As they tend to float around, you can put a candycane bend in the top of the wires and hang that over the lip of the cup, with the connectors hooked to the bend.) Don`t let the connectors get into the water. Or, if you are using the adapter, just hook the wires onto the clips, drop them into the distilled water, set it at 30 volts, and turn it on. Either way, you leave it to run for 1/2 hour, then wipe the oxides off, and do it for another half hour. (When it is working, you can`t get shocked by it.) The buildup of black fuzz on one wire is silver oxide. It is harmless, but I always wipe it off with a paper towel halfway through. This one hour activation gives a CS of about 18 PPM. The longer it works, the higher the PPM, but the larger the particles are. When finished, wipe off the wires with a paper towel, then with the green scrubber until the wires are shiny again, and detach the batteries if that is what you are using. Store it all in a ziploc bag to keep it handy. The finished CS doesn`t need to be refrigerated. If you keep the bottle out where you see it, you`ll remember to take it. I take 3 big swallows a day for an active infection, sometimes even more. (My swallow is about 1/3 of a cup.) The silver particles are fine enough to be easily excreted, so taking more won`t hurt. If you hold the CS in your mouth for a few minutes, it will clean your mouth. I take one swallow a day for a preventive. I use it topically too, and even in the eyes. It is mild and doesn`t sting. Splash some in the pits for a natural deodorant. It is bacteria that causes BO, and since CS kills the bacteria, no BO! CS doesn`t taste too bad either. Some folks notice a metallic tang, others don`t. I put some on my skin and let it dry for a sunburn once, and was tan the next day, with no peeling. Amazing, as my Scandinavian skin burns easily. I use it for bug bites and stings, and canker sores respond quickly. I have used CS for my pet birds, curing a cockatiel of vet-diagnosed Giardiosis even. I always put some in the water bowl for my Pug dog. CS is even good for cut flowers, they will last for weeks. It is bacteria that actually kills fresh-cut flowers. This goes for cut christmas trees, too. It can also be sprayed on the leaves of houseplants with fungus or rust. A dollop of CS in the milk jug keeps the milk fresh for a long time. There are lots more uses for CS in the body and around the house, any place bacteria live can benefit from CS.
Re: CSRe: CS particle size
At 02:05 PM 10/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: Ode Coyote. , Mike Monett. Thank you for all the useful info that you have provided. I do understand that it will cause agglomeration if we do heat the water over 110 degrees. I use a very low constant current. Therefore, I have no difficulty in getting clear CS. However, what I understand in reading this sentence, taken from the web address that I had provided in my first message on this subject: (... The warmer the water, the faster the reaction will take place, and the smaller the particles will be. ) This statement is in error and is contradicted elsewhere on the same website where it says the cooler the water, the smaller the particles. But it doesn't say that when using a constant voltage generator that the cooler water has a lower conductivity and the ion generation rate and current density will also be lower with cooler water..and that the total PPM made in give time will be a LOT lower. Constant voltage generators have an acceleration curve that starts out almost flat and goes almost vertical at some point. Where you start on that curve makes a huge difference in where you wind up in a given time. Slight differences in conductivity due to different batches of water or a few degrees of temperature make great big differences in end product anf the longer you run it, the bigger the differences. Like dropping objects off a building, acceleration is feet per minute per minute and a small difference in height makes a big difference in velocity on impact. With a constant voltage generator, PPM calculations are PPM per minute per minute and can be monitered by the rate of increase of current draw. [One way to get a handle on a battery pack generator and have some idea of where to stop before it goes ballistic is to moniter current.] When using constant current, the initial conductivity of the water may not allow full set current draw and there will be a ramp up to the set current that's identical to the slope of the constant voltage setup. Just a few uS of difference can make many minutes of difference in run time..even hours of difference. But once the set current draw is reached, the curve flattens out and production rates become linear, changing from PPM per minute per minute to PPM per minute. is that, the warmer the water, the smaller the particles will be ! ## Not true isn't it that the warmer the water (above 110 degrees) the larger the particles will be ? ## True, if they agglomerate by collision. [Might not always be true] This is what I wanted to find out. My understanding of agglomeration definition may be incorrect. Simply put, agglomeration is the joining of smaller particles into bigger ones for whatever reason, under whatever conditions. There are a variety of forces that hold particles apart and a variety of forces that can overcome the other forces and cause them to join up. Particles are made from ions that have lost their charge. The closer together the thus formed particles are, the bigger the cluster they tend to make. There are forces available that tend to isolate ion/particle clusters into small groups rather than large ones. [for want of a better term for transitionary states]. If a number of ions is bonded to a water molecule, it gets isolated from other water molecules with similar bonds, so when the particle forms, it only has just so many ions to work with and you get a very small particle. Once a particle does form and goes into suspension, the water molecule is available to catch or hydrate more ions in solution. [My take on it is that the positive charge of the ion causes the ion to orient itself to the negative charge of the oxygen atoms in the water molecule, so, they sorta loosely share electrons.] The higher the concentration of ions and particles in a given space, the more likely that isolating forces will be overcome. In other words, it's not hard to make 3 PPM small particle CS but it becomes more and more touchy as the PPM exceeds 13 PPM. At over around 30 PPM, we're talking crapshoot and just about anything can kick a batch into agglomeration mode. [ A little saliva? Some stray ozone? Maybe a touch of vineger? A fast temperature change? ] Apparently, the CS-300 is not 'supposed' to make small particle colorless CS even at 5 PPM and this person goes out of his way to make sure it doesn't. [even freaks out if it does and includes instructions on how to prevent it] The concentration of particles and ions is not uniform in a given container, tending to be much greater near the electrodes. Using a low current density limits the rate of ion release in a given area to a rate that's below the rate that ion/water bonds can be made as a given local concentration dissipates through Brownian motion, natural thermal convection currents or mechanical stirring. If the water is constantly moving, the local concentration doesn't build up as fast [or not at all] and won't tend to overcome
Re: CSRe: CS particle size
Ode, I get the point now. Thank you for the clarification. I'll also keep your info for reference. Gaston -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMeasuring ppms
Hi Vince, That's correct. I assume the conversion numbers they put on the bottle are for use if you aren't using their PWT with temperature compensation but using a non-temp compensated device. I suspect the meter is hunting until the temp. compensator levels out when you immerse it. Trem - Original Message - From: Vince Richter cvin...@ala.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 8:28 PM Subject: [silver_list] CSPWT operation, was: RE: CSMeasuring very high ppms Thanks, Trem. That helps a great deal. So, as I understand it the meter senses the temperature, compensates the conductivity reading for 77 Degrees, and reads what the solution would be at 77 degrees regardless of the solution temp. One more question: when I read the conductivity of my CS during production, The reading starts out at a peak value, then rapidly drops a few uS and then steadies out at a lower value. What is happening, and which reading is right: the initial higher reading, or the final lower reading? Thanks, Vince -Original Message- From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com] Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 9:27 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSMeasuring very high ppms Hi Vince, The PWT has a temperature compensator. The s.s. tube on the left side is the probe. So, when calibrating just let it stabilize at whatever temperature the solution is and then check the meter to make sure it reads 84.0 uS. Make sure you wait until the meter stops hunting. Here's the calibration info on the bottle label. You'll see that 84.0 uS is the reading at 77 F. °C °F uS/cm 0 32.0 64 5 41.0 65 10 50.0 67 15 59.0 68 16 60.8 70 17 62.6 71 18 64.4 73 19 66.2 74 20 68.0 76 21 69.8 78 22 71.6 79 23 73.4 81 24 75.2 82 25 77.0 84 26 78.8 86 27 80.6 87 28 82.4 89 29 842 90 30 86.0 92 31 87.8 94 I hope this helps. Trem -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63427.html Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms From: Malcolm Stebbins Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:21:54 [... snip nice discussion on Bronsted Lowry Proton Transfer theory] Electrons cannot propagate in an electrolyte. Current flow is through the movement of ions only. BTW, Mike, this is not strictly true, but it may be so for aqueous electrolytes - dunno. I think it's true for any liquid electrolyte, but I'm not sure about solid polymers such as film batteries. Do you know of any examples of electron conduction in a liquid electrolyte? Hey, if water swaps protons around in the form of hydronium ions, does that mean it's a semiconductor and 'holes' propagate?? This is amusing. The same thought occurred to me. I found some web sites that discussed the movement of protons via water molecules. This apparently occurs very quickly - on the order of a few femtoseconds. So movement of the hydroxyl ion could also be explained by proton transfer in the opposite direction. Ivan's data indicated the hydroxyl ion moves 6 times faster than the silver ion under an applied field. This should mean the diffusion velocities whould also be different by the same ratio. So I set up an experiment to visualize the ions using red cabbage juice and managed to get just the right amount to see both species. The ions met in the middle between the electrodes! This was amazing. It contradicted everything I had learned up to that point. This is described in experiment #2 at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61491.html I was too astonished to take accurate notes of the time, and the hydroxyl ion turned the solution a deep color that made it impossible to see anything past the halfway point. So I repeated the experiment using salt, which did not show the hydroxyl ion. This gave the approximate velocity of the silver ion, and showed it is much slower than even very gentle convection currents: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61527.html [...] The ones further away may know an electric field is present, but their drift velocity due to the electric field is perhaps orders of magnitude less than their thermal velocity, and much less than the diffusion velocity. Diffusion velocity?? If I'm going 100 mph back and forth randomly, and at the same time I'm propagating steadily toward San Francisco at 10 mph, I'm gonna get there; the traffic opposing me cannot be any thicker than the traffic going my way. Yes, it is very similar to the Fermi velocity of electrons in metals, typically one-tenth the speed of light. Even though they are moving very fast, the drift velocity is about the same as a person walking. But that's not the problem. Current is the movement of charge carriers. This is electrons in metals, electrons and holes in semiconductors, and positive and negative ions in electrolytes. Consider a long tube with silver electrodes at each end, filled with dw. Apply a constant current. From the above experiments, there will be no silver or hydroxyl ions in the middle of the tube at the beginning when current is applied. Yet as more ions enter the solution, the conductivity increases. So my question is how do the ions know there are more of them in the solution so the conductivity can increase? Take a Hall current probe that can measure DC current. Measure the current in the wires. It will give the same value anywhere along the wires. Now measure the current anywhere along the tube. It will give the same value anywhere along the tube. It has to. The current in a series circuit is the same everywhere. But there are no silver or hydroxyl ions in the middle of the tube yet. So where are the charge carriers coming from that generate the magnetic field detected by the Hall probe? My conclusion is they must be the ions from the trace contaminants in the dw. But they have a much lower concentration than the ions we are now making at the electrodes. The second conclusion is they must move faster to keep the magnetic field the same value. Therefore there will be a non-uniform voltage distribution along the tube. This should be easy to measure. But these ions must exist. There must be a continuous path through the water from one electrode to the other, containing ions that can move. That's why my freezing experiment was doomed to failure. Hmm.. This was posted on Saturday, Sept. 27. But it doesn't show up in the archives, so I can't give you a link. I'll try to post it later when I have some time. The experiment failed, but there was a very interesting foonote. Thanks for your interesting analysis, Malcom. It's refreshing to find someone who knows the theory of chemistry. Best Regards,
Re: CSMike D's cleanse
well..proven?..I'm not sure...but it is definitely stronger.the big difference is that it doesn't use frequency [4hz] like the original beck unit does...I'm not sure if we can post the plans here or notI'm sure I could send them to you personally...Robb - Original Message - From: David Bearrow dav...@sbcglobal.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Re: CSMike D's cleanse Blood electrification. I have the plans for Becks original device. I was interested in seeing plans for an improved device. And has it been proven to be an improvement? If so, how? At 08:25 PM 10/11/03, you wrote: you want plans for the blood electrification or the pulser?..Robb - Original Message - From: David Bearrow dav...@sbcglobal.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 4:39 PM Subject: Re: CSMike D's cleanse Where can I find a schematic for the device without joining a group? At 02:31 PM 10/11/03, you wrote: Hi..I am no expert for sure.Mike and I just made the same model...but it is similar to the sota...the Blood electrification device I am using was made by me following the plans on the yahoo group microelectricitygermkiller.it is alot more powerful than the original beck unit...what health issues are you addressing?...Robb - Original Message - From: Richard Harris yr...@cfl.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Cc: Richard Harris yr...@cfl.rr.com Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:02 AM Subject: RE: CSMike D's cleanse -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRE: Vortically processed water for Fish-Scale condition
Greetings I have uploaded a few recently taken video photos of a 12 year boy presenting with a fish-scale skin problem since the age of 5. URL: http://lewfh.tripod.com/coloursarecodedfrequenciesinphotonicbandgapcrystalstructures/ Please click : Vortex : Generation of a Liquid Vortex With regards Lew Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Parasites kidney stones
Take hydrangea and lecithin. I use Natures sunshine..about 5 or 6 each per day. the hydrangea dissolves the stone and lecitihin helps keep it soft and smooth to pass easily Kim S From: Sharon tala...@teleport.com Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRe: Parasites kidney stones Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:58:35 -0700 mary- I have a friend who got rid of hers with a kidney flush--- I will get the details 4 ya Sharon Hi, Is there is any way for my husband to get rid of his kidney stone? It is 5 cm and is to have it crushed in two weeks, the only problem is that it is so large that they will have to put a small plastic tube with a string attached to it in from his bladder to his kidney so as to help pass some of the larger fragments Is he ever upset and says he doesn't want it done but his choices are nil unless there is some way that one of you can think of. Thanks, Mary H. Do you think there is any link between kidney stones and parasites? And does anyone have any formula for getting rid of the creatures -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com _ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
Re: CSMarshalee--schematic
Evening Shirley, A friend of mine who is not very computer literate needs a schematic on how to make herself a generator. She has wire available, but is having trouble figuring out just how to hook everything up. There is a big difference in computer savvy and putting together simple circuits. Usually I suggest that someone find a friend who knows how resistors, diodes, and leds work and can connect them without getting a headache to make one of the simplest generators. I have a drawing on my site that should give her an idea or two. www.fugitt.com/cs.htm This is an old page which I have not updated very much. In addition, I have a pictorial of how to build the telephone line generator. It does not require any batteries and works anywhere there is a phone outlet. The unit will fit into a shirt pocket and costs less than $ 10.00 to build. If one has never built a circuit of any kind, it may not be so easy to assemble. It does use a full wave bridge rectifier to handle the problem of reversed phone line voltage. The schematic is a bit rough. Maybe I will make a better one. Here is the pictorial. http://www.fugitt.com/files/cs_phone.jpg If you need more info, let me know. Wayne -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms Malcolm
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63427.html Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms From: Malcolm Stebbins Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:21:54 Hi Malcolm, I posted this early this morning but it seems to have disappeared. Sympatico has been unreliable all week so I assume it is lost. Please forgive if it shows up later, but I wanted to thank you for your excellent comments and help on my question. I think I figured it out - see if it makes sense to you. [... snip nice discussion on Bronsted Lowry Proton Transfer theory] Electrons cannot propagate in an electrolyte. Current flow is through the movement of ions only. BTW, Mike, this is not strictly true, but it may be so for aqueous electrolytes - dunno. I think it's true for any liquid electrolyte, but I'm not sure about solid polymers such as film batteries. Do you know of any examples of electron conduction in a liquid electrolyte? Hey, if water swaps protons around in the form of hydronium ions, does that mean it's a semiconductor and 'holes' propagate?? This is amusing. The same thought occurred to me. I found some web sites that discussed the movement of protons via water molecules. This apparently occurs very quickly - on the order of a few femtoseconds. So movement of the hydroxyl ion could also be explained by proton transfer in the opposite direction. Ivan's data indicated the hydroxyl ion moves 6 times faster than the silver ion under an applied field. This should mean the diffusion velocities whould also be different by the same ratio. So I set up an experiment to visualize the ions using red cabbage juice and managed to get just the right amount to see both species. The ions met in the middle between the electrodes! This was amazing. It contradicted everything I had learned up to that point. This is described in experiment #2 at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61491.html I was too astonished to take accurate notes of the time, and the hydroxyl ion turned the solution a deep color that made it impossible to see anything past the halfway point. So I repeated the experiment using salt, which did not show the hydroxyl ion. This gave the approximate velocity of the silver ion, and showed it is much slower than even very gentle convection currents: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61527.html [...] The ones further away may know an electric field is present, but their drift velocity due to the electric field is perhaps orders of magnitude less than their thermal velocity, and much less than the diffusion velocity. Diffusion velocity?? If I'm going 100 mph back and forth randomly, and at the same time I'm propagating steadily toward San Francisco at 10 mph, I'm gonna get there; the traffic opposing me cannot be any thicker than the traffic going my way. Yes, it is very similar to the Fermi velocity of electrons in metals, typically one-tenth the speed of light. Even though they are moving very fast, the drift velocity is about the same as a person walking. But that's not the problem. Current is the movement of charge carriers. This is electrons in metals, electrons and holes in semiconductors, and positive and negative ions in electrolytes. Consider a long tube with silver electrodes at each end, filled with dw. Apply a constant current. From the above experiments, there will be no silver or hydroxyl ions in the middle of the tube at the beginning when current is applied. Yet as more ions enter the solution, the conductivity increases. So my question is how do the ions know there are more of them in the solution so the conductivity can increase? Take a Hall current probe that can measure DC current. Measure the current in the wires. It will give the same value anywhere along the wires. Now measure the current anywhere along the tube. It will give the same value anywhere along the tube. It has to. The current in a series circuit is the same everywhere. But there are no silver or hydroxyl ions in the middle of the tube yet. So where are the charge carriers coming from that generate the magnetic field detected by the Hall probe? My conclusion is they must be the ions from the trace contaminants in the dw. But they have a much lower concentration than the ions we are now making at the electrodes. The second conclusion is they must move faster to keep the magnetic field the same value. Therefore there will be a non-uniform voltage distribution along the tube. This should be easy to measure. But these ions must exist. There must be a continuous path through the water from one electrode to the other, containing ions that can move. That's why my freezing experiment was doomed to failure. Hmm.. This was posted on Saturday,
Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms
- Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 7:04 AM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring very high ppms So, If it's 60 deg F the adjustment should still be to 84 uS ? It's only about a 10 uS difference. Why is the temp chart even there? ## For meters without temperature compensation.. and to give you something to gripe about! Al Davis -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMarshalee--schematic
Um, what does this have to do with me??? Marshalee Subject: Re: CSMarshalee--schematic Evening Shirley, A friend of mine who is not very computer literate needs a schematic on how to make herself a generator. She has wire available, but is having trouble figuring out just how to hook everything up. There is a big difference in computer savvy and putting together simple circuits. Usually I suggest that someone find a friend who knows how resistors, diodes, and leds work and can connect them without getting a headache to make one of the simplest generators. I have a drawing on my site that should give her an idea or two. www.fugitt.com/cs.htm This is an old page which I have not updated very much. In addition, I have a pictorial of how to build the telephone line generator. It does not require any batteries and works anywhere there is a phone outlet. The unit will fit into a shirt pocket and costs less than $ 10.00 to build. If one has never built a circuit of any kind, it may not be so easy to assemble. It does use a full wave bridge rectifier to handle the problem of reversed phone line voltage. The schematic is a bit rough. Maybe I will make a better one. Here is the pictorial. http://www.fugitt.com/files/cs_phone.jpg If you need more info, let me know. Wayne -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: Fish - skin problem and liquid vortex.
Greetings This is a re-sent email posting URL: http://lewfh.tripod.com/coloursarecodedfrequenciesinphotonicbandgapcrystalstructures/ I have uploaded a few recently taken video photos of a 12 year boy presenting with a fish-scale skin problem since the age of 5. Please click : Vortex : Generation of a Liquid Vortex With regards Lew Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSEmail Test Quick Question
Hi List, I'm having email problems at Sympatico. None of my posts seem to go through. If this one makes it, can anyone explain this reaction? I make colloidal copper and let it run until the cathode is coated. I shake it off and add a bit of H2O2. A day later the solution is brown. I put 800ml in a measuring cup. Can't see to the bottom. I add 200ml acetic acid (plain white vinegar), the solution instantly turns clear. Copper acetate, perhaps? That would be good. It is a fungicide. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS
Bob Berger, Have tried to send you an off topic message that I am sure will interest you but my message to 2 different adresses bounced. Would you forward your correct adress to me at rresm...@comcast.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms Malcolm
Hi Mike, I'm in up to my ankles in my unfinished projects, head first. So it will be a while before I get back to this topic, but it's fascinating. I suspect the neutralization of hydronium or hydroxyl by the electrode current alters the concentration, hence the dynamic equilibrium; thus leading to rapid formation of more . I further imagine this effect propagates to the neighboring water molecules. Analogous perhaps to the speed of travel of an electron in a metal conductor vs. the speed of charge propagation. I'll have to think a bit about the effect of the silver ions or the hydroxide on them. Cabbage is good! Anthocyanin, though, hmmm . . . How about a series of neutral sensors across the active area . . . can you really pick up a Hall effect on such a diffuse and tiny signal? Wow!! How about a mini-fish tank, flat sides, less visual distortion, close together, less volumetric spread, anyone who will put cabbage juice in their CS should be willing to chance a few molecules of acetic from mostly cured silicone rubber, . . . maybe, . . . . sorta, g Or line the innards with polybag. Dunno about sensor electrodes, kinda tricky but may be able to cancel out their electrolytic effects. I could send you a few of the pH dipsticks I get, they don't bleed; pH indicator strips, non-bleeding Cat. #9590 colorpHast pH 0-14 EM Reagents Made in Germany US Pat. 4,029,598 EM Science, 480 Democrat Road, Gibbstown, NJ 08027 I see it all now: Four thin glass droppers, capped and spaced along the area of interest, a strip in each. Quickly he pulls all four stoppers simultaneously - the tubes fill, the strips color, the voltmeters record, the stoppers go back in as the sleepless experimenter tremblingly removes the . . . . Oh, Shit! one of the stoppers is missing! The sensor slipped out the bottom! The microvoltmeter is shorting out against the positive pole . . . Blue Smoke! Hmmm, I think I need to get a little more rest; sleep dep. is usually counter-productive. Take care, Malcolm P.S. more below At 08:20 PM 10/12/03 -0400, you wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m63427.html Re: CSRe: Measuring ppms From: Malcolm Stebbins Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:21:54 Hi Malcolm, I posted this early this morning but it seems to have disappeared. Sympatico has been unreliable all week so I assume it is lost. Please forgive if it shows up later, but I wanted to thank you for your excellent comments and help on my question. I think I figured it out - see if it makes sense to you. [... snip nice discussion on Bronsted Lowry Proton Transfer theory] Electrons cannot propagate in an electrolyte. Current flow is through the movement of ions only. BTW, Mike, this is not strictly true, but it may be so for aqueous electrolytes - dunno. I think it's true for any liquid electrolyte, but I'm not sure about solid polymers such as film batteries. Do you know of any examples of electron conduction in a liquid electrolyte? Yes, Birch Reduction utilises a solution of electrons, not ions, in dry cold (I think alcohols, I'll have to look it up.) Very pretty blue color. Hey, if water swaps protons around in the form of hydronium ions, does that mean it's a semiconductor and 'holes' propagate?? This is amusing. The same thought occurred to me. I found some web sites that discussed the movement of protons via water molecules. This apparently occurs very quickly - on the order of a few femtoseconds. So movement of the hydroxyl ion could also be explained by proton transfer in the opposite direction. And There Ya Go!! Much more clearly than I said it! Ivan's data indicated the hydroxyl ion moves 6 times faster than the silver ion under an applied field. This should mean the diffusion velocities whould also be different by the same ratio. So I set up an experiment to visualize the ions using red cabbage juice and managed to get just the right amount to see both species. The ions met in the middle between the electrodes! This was amazing. It contradicted everything I had learned up to that point. This is described in experiment #2 at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61491.html I was too astonished to take accurate notes of the time, and the hydroxyl ion turned the solution a deep color that made it impossible to see anything past the halfway point. So I repeated the experiment using salt, which did not show the hydroxyl ion. This gave the approximate velocity of the silver ion, and showed it is much slower than even very gentle convection currents: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61527.html [...] The ones further away may know an electric field is present, but their drift velocity due to the electric field is perhaps orders of magnitude less than their thermal velocity, and
