CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2014 #148

[alchemysa]

From: Phil Morrison 
Date: 13 August 2014 1:54:34 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS> DOD confirms Nano Silver kills Ebola virus




Also confirms 10 ppm works best.


http://drrimatruthreports.com/dtra-confirma-ebola-nano-study/



Phil. It was a lab test! They poured pure colloidal silver into a  
petri dish. If you can't drive a truck through the holes in Dr Rima's  
conclusion you are not really trying.


Even if you do believe that 10ppm works, you will have to drink about  
1,000 gallons in one sitting to achieve a similar concentration in a  
human body. Probably better to use 20ppm then you'll only have to  
drink 500 gallons.


David



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CS>Clinical Trials

[alchemysa]

From: Ode Coyote 
Date: 12 August 2014 3:20:11 AM


Clinical trials are not considered proof of anything by the FDA
Triple Blind Studies are.

Several Clinical Trials have been performed with CS and all were  
dismissed by the FDA as they formed "The Final Word"  published in  
1999


Ode


I think I've read most of those trials.  They may have involved  
humans but I don't think they were too rigorous.


Definition - Clinical trial:  " a rigorously controlled test of a new  
drug on human subjects"


David


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CS>DOD Study finds CS works against Ebola virus

[alchemysa]

From: Phil Morrison 
Date: 12 August 2014 2:20:13 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS> DOD Study finds CS works against Ebola virus



2009 Department of Defense funded study found that silver  
nanoparticles

neutralize hemorrhagic fever viruses


http://drrimatruthreports.com/wp-content/uploads/Analysis-of-DTRA- 
Nano-Silver-Study.pdf






Its just another lab test. Its not a clinical trial. (Vero cells are  
used in cell cultures. i.e petri dishes).


Its not proof that CS cures Ebola and its not proof of a Big Pharma/ 
CIA coverup either.


What it does mean is that CS should be investigated further but we  
already knew that didn't we.



David




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CS>Clinical Trials

[alchemysa]

From: "M.G. Devour" 
Date: 11 August 2014 9:46:20 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Clinical Trials



What is probably right, though, is to say that clinical trials have  
not

and will not happen any time soon.

Mike D.



Its not hard to imagine that, under normal circumstances, a clinical  
trial for CS would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. You would  
need hundreds of participants, all having regular comprehensive  
medical assessments throughout a trial that could last for 10 years.  
It would especially be complicated by the fact that the scientists  
wouldnt really even have a clear idea what they are looking for.  
(Fewer colds? Less cancers? Longer lives?). In my opinion it will  
never happen unless someone like Bill Gates gets interested.


On the other hand, in an emergency, a fast tracked trial specifically  
addressing, say Ebola, may be something that the government might be  
interested in.


David



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CS>Clinical Trials

[alchemysa]

On 11/08/2014, at 10:16 PM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:


From: Victor Cozzetto 
Date: 11 August 2014 9:18:46 AM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: Re: CS>Clinical Trials


David,

Why do you care about clinical trials,



I think its important to know the difference between a clinical trial  
and a lab test. If you don't, you will just look like a fool and get  
shot down pretty quickly as soon as you venture into territory where  
the opponents have some scientific or medical training. But if you  
can talk their language and say " No, we don't have any clinical  
trials, but we do have thousands of pretty impressive lab tests,  
(including some using animals), and we do have tens of thousands of  
anecdotes (including many from people in the medical professions)  
then you will usually gain some respect and people will start listen.


Its also important to know that when someone says he has proof that  
his colloidal silver is more effective than someone elses, he's lying.



David


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CS>Clinical Trials

[alchemysa]

From: Phil Morrison 
Date: 11 August 2014 1:33:55 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CS> Clinical Trials



To:   alchemysa

There have been tons of clinical trials proving CS nanoparticle  
efficacy

against all pathogens, without exception, including Ebola.



They are not clinical trials, they are lab tests. I repeat, there are  
no clinical trials whatsoever.


Definition of clinical trial  " A rigorously controlled test of a  
new drug or a new invasive medical device on HUMAN SUBJECTS."




Also, as you will read below, silver is an essential element in bodily
function.



There is no scientific proof of that either.


We do ourselves a disservice by claiming there is proof where there  
is none. Its a stick that our opponents will continually beat us  
with. Far better for us to concentrate on the results of the  
thousands of lab tests and on the compelling anecdotal 'evidence'.


David


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CS>Every kind of silver kills bacteria.

[alchemysa]

From: Victor Cozzetto 
Date: 10 August 2014 7:25:43 PM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: Re: CS>Every kind of silver kills bacteria.


Whoa, I agree with your general gist that basically all silver is  
good, and even think it agrees with my earlier post that 'nano' is  
used mostly as marketing hype.  I agree with you on  1 & 2, but  
your points 2 & 3 scare me a bit:


 - Never use jewelry or sterling silver of any kind, as you could  
end up with nickel poisoning. You always want the purest silver  
available when making CS, to avoid any unwanted contaminants.




Agreed, but I was talking about 'effectiveness' not safety.


 -  There is endless documentation that shows colloidal silver is  
effective, as it was even used by the pharmaceutical companies a  
hundred years ago. And there are thousands of years of history  
showing silver being effective. In my opinion, mentioning  
published, 'official' clinical trials or trying to differentiate CS  
from nanosilver only adds confusion. (And as you said, CS has  
nanosilver).


Sure there is endless documentation, just like there are endless  
websites claiming that CS is a miracle cure but, quite rightly, they  
are not worth a damn in medical eyes. They are not evidence. They are  
not based on clinical trials. They are not to be trusted, and  
ultimately thats why they are not accepted by the FDA. I wish there  
was 'proof' but there isn't.


Forget about 'thousands of years of use', about 'blue bloods', about  
'silver dollars in milk cans' and all that BS. The ONLY credible  
argument for taking CS is that the lab tests give it some scientific  
support, and thousands of anecdotes SUGGEST it might be effective. We  
have NOTHING more concrete than that yet.


David




I was just worried that some people might get the wrong idea about  
your comments. I agree with the intend of your message completely.


Victor



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CS>Every kind of silver kills bacteria.

[alchemysa]

You'll probably be hearing lots about nanosilver and ebola in the  
next few weeks. All sorts of quacksters will be jumping on the  
bandwagon claiming that only 'their' colloidal silver is full of the  
right kind of 'nanoparticles' or 'micro-particles'.


Heres a few facts to think about...

1. All home made colloidal silver contains nanoparticles.

2. Theres not a SINGLE clinical (human) trial that proves nanosilver  
does a damn thing to ebola or anything else. In fact there have been  
no clinical trials that prove that ANY KIND of colloidal silver does  
a damn thing.  And theres certainly no evidence that '10 ppm' is some  
kind of perfect strength.


3. All types of silver HAVE been proven to kill bacteria in lab  
tests. (e.g in test tubes). Silver ions, particles, compounds, silver  
nitrates, etc have all worked. (For all we know colloidal silver made  
from old jewellery in dishwater may be the most effective colloidal  
silver of all).


4. You can make and drink your own colloidal silver at home knowing  
that no silver product made anywhere, by anyone, by any method. has  
any credible evidence to prove it is more effective than yours!!


David





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CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2014 #138

[alchemysa]

On 07/08/2014, at 6:35 PM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:




silver-digest DigestVolume 2014 : Issue 138

Today's Topics:
  Re: CS>ear infection  [ PT Ferrance  
 ]
  Re: CS> Altman Report [ Jim Holmes  
 ]

  CS>Nanosilver 10  [ glendajma...@aol.com ]
  CS>subscribe  [ David Valencia Hidalgo  




From: PT Ferrance 
Date: 6 August 2014 10:27:50 AM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: Re: CS>ear infection


There are several ways.  It is called ear insuflation.  Some just  
put a wet cotton ball in their ear and then hold the tubing to  
their ear and other use a piece of equipment to humidify the  
ozone.  If you do a search you should find what you are looking  
for.  My thought is that, as a gas, ozone would go right to the  
spot but you need to do your research and then decide what is best  
for you.

PT

From: evelyn 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2014 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: CS>ear infection

How do you put ozone in your ear?




On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 3:00 PM, PT Ferrance   
wrote:

Have you considered ozone in your ear?
PT


From: evelyn 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2014 3:41 PM

Subject: Re: CS>ear infection

Hello - Thank you all very much for replying.

My ear infection is sealed.  It is inside the left ear and  
Eustachian tubes.  When I interact with people it gets inflamed.  I  
am not able to speak because of it.  Speaking spreads the  
infection.  CS inside the ear does not penetrate the drum.  I take  
it internally.  I feel good with Source Naturals CS because it is  
standardized.  But I am in so much pain from the infection instead  
of my 1-2 tsp. daily I am considering taking 1/2 the bottle to see  
if whacks it once and for all.  I am interested in your experience,  
esp. with internal infections ( not much reaches the ear and tubes  
b/c not much blood flow.)


I am interested in the blood electrifier group. Could you send me  
their web page or e-mail.

Thank you.


On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Alan Faulkner   
wrote:

Are you taking it internally or topically?

Alan


On 2014-07-25, at 15:47 PM, evelyn wrote:

Hello,

I have been trying to cure a sealed ear infection with silver.  It  
worked a lot, so long as my ear was not inflamed.  Now I am active  
and it is always getting inflamed.  The curing stopped.  My  
question is really, how much should I/ can I take? I am taking  
Source Naturals 30ppm. Now I take 1-2tsp/day.  I am avoiding the  
sun like the plague.

Thank you so much for any advice.


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From: Jim Holmes 
Date: 6 August 2014 11:51:33 AM
To: Silver-List 
Subject: Re: CS> Altman Report


Other studies I have seen but cannot cite at the momentmany  
hard drives backnoted that the silver accumulates in the  
reticuloendothelium of the lymph nodes, where there is already a  
concentration of pathogens.



On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Phil Morrison  
 wrote:



Altman came up with a good report IMHO.   Timely too.

Given the limits on staff and the technologies then available,  
Altman's

one-off report borders on little short of amazing.   Altman got the
numbers right, and by so doing, broke through the foggy
notions, then existing, on CS toxicity, bio-accumulation, and dosage;
and, thereby established a solid foundation for the future growth  
of CS.

Some of his assumptions were wrong, but his tables were flat right.

We now know that the body flushes out ionic silver as soon as  
possible,
and uses the silver nanoparticles to battle the pathogens in our  
bodies.  Long
story short, excess CS exits via the urine, while beat-up  
nanoparticles exit the body via liver, bile, feces route.   Hence,  
the need for regular replacement.


Hat tip to Roger Altman.


From: glendajma...@aol.com
Date: 7 August 2014 12:13:27 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Nanosilver 10 





Anyone know about nanosilver-10 from this book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Silver-Water-Coincidences-nanosilver- 
ebook/dp/B00MBPWWUI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


From: David Valencia Hidalgo 
Date: 7 August 2014 6:35:14 PM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: CS>subscribe

CS>The evidence for Silver/Antibiotic 'interference'. Theres probably none.

[Alchemysa]

Hello Vigilius

Yes I've seen that study and others. The trouble is they are not  
clinical human trials so they get trumped by any dubious complaint to  
the FDA that results in a 'Safety Alert'. Its the 'precautionary  
principle'. No real evidence is needed, just an anecdote or two that  
creates 'concern'. But once it appears in a Safety Alert it becomes  
gospel, good enough to be considered as a 'reliable source' by the  
NCCAM and Wikipedia. The only way to beat it is with a peer reviewed  
clinical trial OR with an agument that points out that the original  
complaint was based on such flimsy evidence as to be ridiculous.


As an Australian I probably can't take this much further but perhaps  
a U.S. member could follow it up. Below is the response I got from  
the FDA. As you can see the phone number to call is (301) 796-3900


Inquiry:
Hello. I am writing regarding your Safety Alert for Silver.
http://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutbreaksEmergencies/ 
SafetyAlertsAdvisories/ucm184087.htm . In this alert you say... "the  
use of silver-containing dietary supplements may interfere with the  
body's absorption of some drugs, such as quinolone antibiotics  
[ciprofloxacin (Cipro), norfloxacin (Noroxin), ofloxacin],  
tetracycline antibiotics, thyroxine, and penacillamine (Cuprimine).  
Could you please provide me with a reference or source for this  
statement"


Response: (received on April 18.)
Thank you for taking the time to contact the U.S. Food and Drug  
Administration's (FDA), Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition  
(CFSAN). I am able to provide you with information that will direct  
you to the guidance, regulations and other resources to assist you in  
determining how to correctly apply them to your unique product and  
situation. It will be helpful to fully review the information provided.
Please contact the FOI staff at (301) 796-3900 to determine whether  
the records you are seeking are maintained in the Public Reading  
Room, Electronic Reading Room, or if the information requires the  
submission of a FOI request.


My 'case number' for this enquiry was 8403 if that helps.

(I must admit, the response from the FDA was at least prompt and  
clear. Much better than I'd expect from the overpaid public service  
clock watchers we have over here.)


David




From: Vigilius Haufniensis 

Subject: Re: CS>The evidence for Silver/Antibiotic 'interference'.  
Theres probably none.



NOT factually the case.  The MRSA studies we listed in our book  
show that CS does assist traditional antibiotics, also works great  
on it's own.


Here's a small booklet on MRSA at this link:
http://kiwi6.com/file/4s0d4fa55g




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CS>The evidence for Silver/Antibiotic 'interference'. Theres probably none.

[Alchemysa]

You may have read on the NCCAM website or on Wikipedia that ''silver  
may interfere with the absorption of some antibiotics (thereby  
reducing their effectiveness.).


http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver

This claim has intrigued me for some time so I have tried to follow  
it up. Googling produced no answers. Neither did searching the PubMed  
website. So I emailed the NCCAM and requested a reference for the  
claim. They emailed back and said it comes from the this FDA safety  
alert...


http://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutbreaksEmergencies/ 
SafetyAlertsAdvisories/ucm184087.htm


The FDA Safety Alert contains no reference for the claim either, so I  
next emailed the FDA and asked them for a reference.


Their response was "Please contact the FOI staff at (301) 796-3900 to  
determine whether the records you are seeking are maintained in the  
Public Reading Room, Electronic Reading Room, or if the information  
requires the submission of a FOI request."


Thats as far as I have gotten so far but interestingly Steve Barwick  
has pursued the same enquiry with the same response. He claims to  
have filed an FOI request and is awaiting an answer.


Regardless, it seems remarkably hard to a find refererence for this  
quite extraodinary and oft repeated claim.


Normally I wouldnt trust a word that Stave Barwick writes but in this  
case he produces what I think is quite a reasonable and informative  
article that corresponds closely with my own experience. You may find  
it interesting...


http://www.thesilveredge.com/does-colloidal-silver-really-interfere- 
with-the-absorption-of-certain-medications.shtml


Regards
David


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CS>May we talk about Shingles

[Alchemysa]

Neville.

May I assume your better half is not normally a regular CS user?

David





From: Neville Munn 
Date: 22 August 2013 1:29:07 AM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: RE: CS>May we talk about Shngles vaccine vs. CS?  
Homeopathic H zoster



I'm gobsmacked, what an incredible coincidence.  I am as we speak  
treating my better half for shingles which became apparent  to me  
last Sunday and doc diagnosed Tuesday as a fairly severe case.



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CS>Silver may make antibiotics 1000 times more effective.

[Alchemysa]

You may have read the warning that 'silver may interfere wth some  
antibiotics thereby reducing their effectiveness'. There is no  
credible evidence whatsoever for that claim but that doesn't stop the  
ironically named National Centre for Complementary and Alternative  
Medicine posting it on their webside, and it subsequently being  
repeated and posted on Wikipedia.


http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver?nav=gsa#risks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver#Adverse_effects

Well surprise, surprise, the exact opposite may be true.

"Scientists have shown that giving tiny amounts of silver at the same  
time as antibiotics makes the drugs up to a thousand times more  
effective. The finding comes in the wake of warnings by Britain’s top  
doctor that the rise of drug-resistant superbugs could trigger an  
‘apocalyptic scenario’ in which even routine operations such as hip  
surgery become deadly because we have run out of antibiotics."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2344583/Silver-really-COULD- 
new-weapon-superbugs-Adding-antibiotics-boosts-effectiveness-1-000- 
times.html#ixzz2WkElyLfD


http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/5/190/190ra81

The affiliations of the Authours of the report are impressive...

1Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Department of Biomedical  
Engineering and Center of Synthetic Biology, Boston University,  
Boston, MA 02215, USA.
2Wyss Institute for Biologically Inspired Engineering, Harvard  
University, Boston, MA 02118, USA.
3Program in Molecular Biology, Cell Biology, and Biochemistry, Boston  
University, Boston, MA 02215, USA.
4Boston University School of Medicine, 715 Albany Street, Boston, MA  
02118, USA.



Cheers
David in Australia



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CS>American Biotech Labs review

[Alchemysa]

From: "Simonsen, John" 
Date: 25 December 2012 4:11:23 AM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: RE: CS>American Biotech Labs review (ASAP 10 Silver Solution)


TDS only measures ionic silver. The ASAP product is mostly metallic  
silver in colloidal form. So very low conductivity. You would need  
a different (and more expensive) analytical method to determine the  
total Ag in the ASAP.




No, its supposed to be largely ionic. (In fact its 96% ionic  
according to http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr05/cpr_05.html).


Its true there can be a significant transition from conductive ions  
to non conductive particles, but still, if you are paying for ions  
you're not getting them.


The other answer is that there were not many ions there in the first  
place. If the ions have combined to create particles then you should  
have a strong TE. Check the TE with a laser. If you have no TE and  
only 3 ppm then you've been ripped off.


By the way, you have to at least double what it says on the meter if  
you are using a TDS meter.


David



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CS>Re: #414. An old post reappears.

[Alchemysa]

Thats strange. How does a post I made way back on Jan 5 appear again?  
(This time as the second post on Issue #414)



David






silver-digest DigestVolume 2012 : Issue 414

Today's Topics:
  Re: CS> Sunflower Lecithin - Vit C a  [ Dorothy Fitzpatrick  
  Re: CS>The Silvercell process?[ "David O'Neil"  
  Re: CS>Cracked Brittle Nails - Toena  [ sol  
 ]
  Re: CS>Guaifenesin/Fibromyalgia supp  [ Sara Mandal-Joy  
  Re: CS>The Silvercell process?[ Asif Nathekar  
  Re: CS>Guaifenesin/Fibromyalgia supp  [ Rowena  
 ]
  Re: CS>Guaifenesin/Fibromyalgia supp  [ PT Ferrance  
 ]
  Re: CS>Guaifenesin/Fibromyalgia supp  [ Sara Mandal-Joy  
  Re: CS>Guaifenesin/Fibromyalgia - gu  [ Rowena  
 ]




From: "David O'Neil" 
Date: 5 January 2012 8:01:31 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


So, would you agree that Mikes claim that its extremely difficult  
to make highly ionic CS is somewhat exagerated?


David


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CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Alchemysa]

Neville.

Colour indicates the presence of silver particles. (It doesn't matter  
what the color is... it could be yellow, grey, white, black or any  
other possible colour). Particles contain large amounts of silver but  
they are not conductive so they are not detectable or measurable by  
any TDS, PPM or EC meter.


Particle formation begins immediately that you begin making a batch  
but increases significantly as you get closer to the saturation point  
of the water - then the color becomes more obvious.


I'm sure you've already observed that you can run a generator all  
week and produce a pile of fuzz but you'll still only see a ppm  
reading of 5 or 6 on a TDS meter.


Regards
David







Date: 26 September 2012 12:39:42 PM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm


Well I might just have to question that reasoning in the interest  
of possibly learning something.  If one knows the water is pure, so  
let's assume we all know what we are doing by way of EIS  
production, what difference does colour make in relation to meter  
readings?  You've still only got water with silver in it.  Doubling  
the TDS readout will give approximate TOTAL silver content the same  
as the EC meter readout 'as is' will give an approximate TOTAL  
silver content indication.


All meters work on conductivity hence they will all give an  
approximate TOTAL silver content reading.  Doesn't matter if the EC  
meter is calibrated supposedly 1:1, or if one simply doubles the  
reading on a TDS meter, it's still a reading of TOTAL silver  
content in the water.  I know meters pick up on the ionic  
component, but doing the rough calculations we are speaking about  
here they will all give an approximate silver content in total, not  
just ions.  This is why I use meters just to give me a 'ballpark'  
figure at shutoff point.


N.

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:21:05 +0930
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Heat increasing ppm
>
> When using a PPM / TDS meter you have to multiply the reading by  
2 to

> 2.5 times to give you a rough ppm of the IONIC (dissolved) silver in
> CS. In CLEAR CS this reading will be roughly equivalent to the a
> TOTAL silver ppm in the CS. (i.e. the ionic silver plus the  
colloidal

> silver). If the colloidal silver is NOT clear then any meter is a
> pretty useless.
>
> Alternatively use a meter that has a conductivity (EC) mode (like a
> COM100) that measures out in microseimens. (uS). In that mode its
> basically a 1 to 1 conversion so you don't have to double it like  
you

> do with TDS/PPM mode. (But like a TDS meter its still only useful in
> clear CS).
>
> See Frank Key's www.silver-colloids.com site for comparisons of
> electrical conductivity and Ag+ ppm
>
> David
>



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CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Alchemysa]

When using a PPM / TDS meter you have to multiply the reading by 2 to  
2.5 times to give you a rough ppm of the IONIC (dissolved) silver in  
CS. In CLEAR CS this reading will be roughly equivalent to the a  
TOTAL silver ppm in the CS. (i.e. the ionic silver plus the colloidal  
silver). If the colloidal silver is NOT clear then any meter is a  
pretty useless.


Alternatively use a meter that has a conductivity (EC) mode (like a  
COM100) that measures out in microseimens. (uS). In that mode its  
basically a 1 to 1 conversion so you don't have to double it like you  
do with TDS/PPM mode. (But like a TDS meter its still only useful in  
clear CS).


See Frank Key's www.silver-colloids.com site for comparisons of  
electrical conductivity and Ag+ ppm


David





From: Lou Kraft 
Date: 25 September 2012 1:55:02 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.


Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing  
on my ppm meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are  
being calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate  
Ag ppm assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS  
meter and the fact that there is a difference in conductivity  
between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply  
for Ag ppm.
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for  
measuring ppm Ag. more accurately.
If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just  
seemed logical.

Thanks, Lou



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CS>R/O water reads 0.0 uS !

[Alchemysa]

Err... yes it is malfunctioning, or it needs recalibrating. No way it  
could be that low.


David (Australia)




From: David AuBuchon 
Date: 29 June 2012 9:12:26 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>R/O water reads 0.0 uS !


The reverse osmosis water out of this tap reads 0.0 on my Hanna  
PWT, and it is not malfunctioning!  That is better than distilled.   
The pH measure 5.0.  That is a little concerning to me...


David







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CS>HVAC vs LVDC vs 'high' LVDC

[Alchemysa]

"What constitutes the make up of the HVAC produced 'particle'?"

Well according to Ole Bob (Berger) theres very little particulate  
matter in the HVAC product anyway. The stuff he made was usually  
around 95% ionic and it was difficult to make anything above 9ppm  
(total ppm I assume) because it went yellow.


Theres some good reading here about Bobs HVAC research here... http:// 
www.silvermedicine.org/bob-berger-silver.html#hvac_arc . Fortunately  
silvermedicine has kept some of his stuff.


As for the actual make up of those particles, I might have missed it  
but I don't think he had the tools to establish that.  Frank Key at  
silver-colloids.com might have the tools but he's not telling. But no- 
one knows which type of silver works best anyway.


David



From: Neville Munn 
Date: 17 June 2012 4:02:04 PM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>Re: HVAC vs LVDC vs 'high' LVDC


Excellent David.  I thought most, if not all, commercial producers  
used the HVAC method, I stand corrected.


There you go then, if it's 'high' LVDC then there is no difference,  
other than production volume.


Thanks for that.

You wouldn't by any chance be able to help me out with one of my  
other questions regarding HVAC products then would you? i.e.; what  
constitutes the make up of the HVAC produced 'particle'?  I suspect  
they are the same as LVDC particles too, but perhaps more of them  
compared to ions, if not, then I doubt their particles could  
possibly be as small as the particles in LVDC EIS?


N.



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CS>Re: HVAC vs LVDC vs 'high' LVDC

[Alchemysa]

From: Neville Munn 
Date: 17 June 2012 11:46:21 AM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2012 #253


I think I've asked this question before but can't remember if it  
was answered.


Bought products I assume are produced using HVAC, due to bulk  
production necessary for commercial supply, which apparently  
results in higher particle content.




I doubt that many commercial producers use HVAC arc systems any more.  
Its very difficult and I think it was 'Ole Bob' (previously an  
advocate of HVAC) who proved it produced almost exactly the same as  
LVDC anyway. (i.e. predominantly ionic).


There is one brand in Australia theat claims to be HVAC, but I know  
the biggest brand in Australia (Suttons) is LVDC.


High 'low voltage' DC is probably quite common among the larger  
commercial guys and I think some producers deliberately try to  
confuse this with HVAC. In other words they are simply using using  
say 48v DC or higher in large tubs with electrodes widely spaced or  
multiple arrays of electrodes. The voltage is higher than the12 to  
24v that we might use at home but the process is exactly the same,  
just scaled up a bit to produce larger volumes.


I think a lot of the smaller commercial producers use Trem's SG7  
which is basically a low voltage DC unit with extra punch.


Mesosilver (purest-colloids) is different again. I'm not sure what  
their secret process is.


But the really important point is that there is absolutely no  
reliable evidence that any form of CS ultimately is any more  
effective than any other form. Any such claims are just advertising  
hype.


David



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CS>arthritis and ppm count

[Alchemysa]

Jared

There is absolutely no credible evidence whatsover for the claim that  
ionic silver is better than colloidal or vise versa. All the tests  
quoted by the promoters on each side are LAB TESTS IN PETRI DISHES.   
It is utterly unbelievable to project such results (achieved in a  
small perfectly controlled environment containing just a couple of  
ingredients) to what may happen in the infinitely more complicated  
chemistry and vastly larger volume of the human body.


In the human body ions may (or may not) work faster, but colloids may  
(or may not) hang around and work for longer. Which woud you prefer?  
Anyway, ions probably turn into colloids the instant they hit the  
bloodstream and particles may be continuously releasing ions! No-one  
really knows what is happening.


Theres a mountain of in vitro research proving that just about every  
form of silver kills bacteria, from hard, pure silver coatings on  
medical appliances, to unstable silver compounds of every  
description.  And frankly thats about all we really know. All the  
rest is just theory.


Sure, swallow the 'hydrosol' (its just another name for colloidal  
silver) but don't swallow the sales pitch.


David






From: Jared De la Torriente 
Date: 18 April 2012 12:45:45 AM
To: 
Subject: CS>arthritis  and ppm  count


ill like to share  a point i learned.

 My grand ma and mother in law both have  chronic fatige and  
artritis  for some time. both  have  show  pain relieve with  
taking ICS, more joint movility so  it most be  helping since all  
their regular  medication seem  to have  stop helping and  ther  
joint and movility was deteriorating.


an as far as PPM, i done   much reasearch and popular believe is   
now amongs  savy experts that is  the IONIC content on the colloid  
solution that does  wonders for curing not the PPM or  silver  
particle  content, the  particle content does have  some mild anti  
bacterial efffects but its true strengh is the silver ions.


a  5ppm silver colloid is more or less 80% silver colloid particles  
and 20% or less ionic silver.
a  5ppm ionic/colloidal silver  is more or less 80% ionic and 20%  
silver colloid particles.
a  5ppm colloidal silver hidrosol is over 95% ionic and less than  
5% silver colloid particles.


another way of putting  you ll need to ingest much less ML of  
silver hidrosol at 5ppm, insted of ingesting highe amount ML of a 20 
+PPM silver colloid solution to get the same results. a lot much  
less is need to regain health.


High 20+PPM silver solution means more silver particles witch may  
have to big of a size that can acumulated on the body, leading to a  
possible argiria look on the skin and  nails. still efective but  
more needs to be ingested.  lower ppm  5-10PPM ionic or hidrosol  
are much better and more efective and much less needed to be  
ingested to get results.


i recently fought off salmonelosis in 1.5 days taking power doses  
of  silver hidrosol home made at 8ppm infuse with 528 hz dna repair  
and accelerated  healing.


hope this help you guys out.

NAMASTE..




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CS>RE: 130V CS Generator

[Alchemysa]

From: Robert Toborek 
Subject: Re: CS>RE: 130V CS Generator


Hi Mike,

...  That's my five cents worth of thoughts. Again, thank you,  
Mike for making this available. I'l looking forward to this new  
project.


Cheers!

Robert



I wouldn't hold your breath Robert. I'm sorry to say it but we've  
heard all this before. If you cut through all the waffle you'll find  
Mike is making extravagant claims based on virtually no credible  
evidence whatsover. The simple process that Mike promises seems to be  
far more complicated that anything already available, and may only  
achieve a minor increase in ionic content, which is of arguable  
benefit anyway.  Do yourself a favor and concentrate on making or  
buying a generator using simple and proven techniques that everyone  
else on this list can attest to.


This may seem harsh, but new members come here for information... not  
to be led up the garden path.


David
(Australia)


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CS>Swallowed CS Down Wrong Tube

[Alchemysa]

My unprofessional opinon is that the CS has absolutely zero to do  
with your problem. In spite of what you may have heard CS is actually  
incredibly 'weak'. 99.999% of what you drank was water.  Swallowing  
it the 'wrong way' could cause problems, but not because it contained  
a miniscule amount of silver.


David




  CS>Swallowed CS Down Wrong Tube   [ 2 Words Production  
<2wordsproductio ]


From: 2 Words Production <2wordsproduct...@gmail.com>
Date: 16 February 2012 4:32:15 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Swallowed CS Down Wrong Tube


A few weeks ago I was on the bus heading home and decided to take a  
small sip of CS that someone had prepared. It was just a teaspoon  
or so but when I swallowed it went down the wrong tube and I  
started coughing and clearing my throat for about a good 10 minutes  
or so. Long story short fastforwarding now to present time my  
throat is still messed up. Throughout this time I've been hoarse,  
some coughing, nose is running and basically I feel like there's  
something still *stuck* there. There is some phlegm that comes up  
if I clear my throat.


Went to an Ear, Nose and Throat guy who examined the throat passage  
with an endoscope and pronounced that he didn't see anything. Well,  
I know what I feel and sound like - and this just confirms what I  
already think about doctors.


I tried gargling, doing flips with my inverted table, doing lymph  
tapping, neck and throat exercises - to no avail.


As a side note from time to time before this happened I would have  
some kind of spasm in my throat area that would only be alleviated  
with my manually compressing the area and returning the ligament to  
its place.
Your thoughts on how to clear this up? Is the CS still *sitting*  
somewhere in a pocket of my throat? Wouldn't it be absorbed by now?


Thanks for any help,
Joy




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CS>Ion Selective electrodes..

[Alchemysa]

marshall nelson wrote...   " A selective ion probe meter will give  
accurate silver ion concentrations from 0.1ppm to 10,000 ppm"



Its interesting that you mention these gadgets. Out of interest I've  
been reading up on them recently. They seem a pretty difficult way to  
measure ionic silver, way beyond the know-how of most of us, and not  
simply a matter of dipping an EC or ppm meter into a solution like we  
normally do. It appears they require lots of calibrating in a  
solution of known ionic silver content (which would present a few  
obvious problems I would think).  And it looks like an investment of  
quite a few thousand dollars would be required to get set up properly  
with an ion selective measuring system.


Lots of info here about them...

http://www.nico2000.net/Book/Guide1.html

However its interesting to note that Frank Key's Colloidal Science  
Lab does not use ISE's to measure ionic content. I would think such a  
device would be right up his alley if they work as imagined.


Perhaps theres a problem with actually using them to measure ionic  
silver that I have not grasped.


http://www.colloidalsciencelab.com/labMeasurements.htm


Cheers
David (Australia)






From: marshall nelson 
Date: 11 February 2012 3:55:09 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Mesosilver


A selective ion probe meter will give accurate silver ion  
concentrations from 0.1ppm to 10,000 ppm. Combined with the Malvern  
results and a total solids determination using dry weight, along  
with sem photos after ultracentrifuging, you will be able to  
calculate the absolute ratio of ions to particulate along with a  
good idea of particle size distribution. There are analytical  
balances that are accurate in these ranges of concentration. This  
is not conjecture.





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CS>Re: Mesosilver

[Alchemysa]

Regarding the color of Mesosilver... Somewhere on the site Frank  
explains that the dark color of mesosilver is due to the very high  
CONCENTRATION of the particles, not the size of the particles.


The following interesting quote is also on their website.

Quote from the silver-colloids (Mesosilver) site:

"Regarding the dark color of high particle surface area colloids"

Question: Dr. Ronald Gibbs booklet states that high-quality Colloidal  
Silver is colorless, but the highest particle surface area colloid in  
the tabulations is dark in color, why this discrepancy?


Answer: The material in Ron Gibbs book is slightly dated. Ron died in  
May 2000 and the book material was frozen about a year before. For  
example, the samples that Ron tested, some of which were made for him  
in the Colloidal Science Lab. Inc.(CSL) were believed by Ron to be at  
least 50% colloidal when in fact they were mostly ionic (typically  
90%). The methods developed at CSL to determine ionic vs. particle  
concentration were just being developed at the time Ron wrote the  
book and so he was not fully informed about the ion/particle ratio of  
the test samples and consequently made some erroneous assumptions.  
Ron assumed the sample were at least 50% particles when they were  
only 10%.


(So in fact Ron Gibbs was proving that IONIC silver works)

David (Australia.)



From: Janet Bergen 
Date: 2 February 2012 10:39:43 AM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>Mesosilver


Sally,

I've bought MesoSilver for the past 6 or so years- and it works,  
and people are catching on.


But I want to take it the next step now. I've noticed the color is  
an issue to me. The longer the MesoSilver stays stored the more  
likely the color changes from yellow to a green or darker color.  
From what I've read the suspended Ag particles are dropping out of  
the suspension thereby causing discoloration from the non- 
uniformity. I believe the ideal color is supposed to be clear.


I will be making my own soon using a Silver Generator (just a  
constant current source w/ silver electrodes placed into the water)  
and a conductivity meter to first test (to make sure the water is  
as pure & distilled as possible) and for determining afterward, to  
some degree, the colloidal effect that I produced. Then using a low- 
powered laser determine the ppm level.


this is really interesting stuff, and you'll be fine with MesoSilver,

kevin



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CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2012 #23

[Alchemysa]

Yes, I'm sure thats what he meant.  You have to multiply what it  
says on the TDS meter by 2 to 2.5 times to get a ROUGH idea of what  
the ppm of the colloidal silver is.


Of course none of these meters (uS, PWT, TDS, PPM or whatever) are  
any use whatsover for measuring CS if the water wasn't pure in the  
first place.



David
(Australia)





From: "Trem" 
Date: 14 January 2012 2:47:45 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


Ken,

Don't you mean the TDS meter halves the uS value of the solution?

Trem





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CS>brain a barrier/ Gatrorade

[Alchemysa]

I haven't been following this thread so I dont know if this has  
already been mentioned, but a few years ago it was theorized that  
mixing CS with a sports drink like Gatorade would help CS pass  
through the 'blood brain barrier' to reach deeper into the central  
nervous system.  I can't remember the chemistry behind the idea it  
but it seemed to make sense at the time. And I think a few people  
commented that they used the method and believed it helped. (Its all  
anecdotal of course.)


David
(Australia)




From: Guyot Léna 
Date: 7 January 2012 4:30:30 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>brain a barrier?


Thanks MA!
On Jan 6, 2012, at 7:22 AM, MaryAnn Helland wrote:

Hi Lena -- I'm glad the information was worthwhile to you.  And as  
Marshall clarified, it's likely that it's the ionic portion of your  
home-made CS that will cross the blood-brain barrier to do the job  
needed doing.  I hope you are successful in eradicating those  
spirochettes!!  :-)

MA



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CS>The Silvercell process?

[Alchemysa]

So, would you say that making highly ionic CS is not really that  
difficult after all?


David
(Australia)






From: David AuBuchon 
Date: 5 January 2012 7:25:48 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


I stopped brewing at about a stable 50 uS.  Slight yellow tinge.   
It is possible it could go higher if I just kept sticking the  
generator in it.  But I got bored.  This concentration brew also  
does not appear to make me herx or anything.



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CS>Highly ionic CS.

[Alchemysa]

From: David AuBuchon 
Date: 20 December 2011 12:42:07 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?


How is the 40PPM measured on the SilverGen?  A built in meter?   
Short of getting a batch lab-analyzed, the correctness and  
relevance of the reading that that meter gives would need to be  
validated.  The conductance drop over time after the batch is  
finished would also need to be viewed.  Also visible plateout or  
fallout.  Also potential contamination sources.


David




Trems was measured with a PWT meter I assume.
Mike claims that basic gens only make 5 ppm. Thats self-serving BS.  
He creates a lot of straw man arguments to make his process sound  
more impressive than it really is. Just about any gen can make pretty  
high ppm with a little practice and experimentation. 23 ppm (eg  
Natural immunogenics) is typical of the maximum acheivable for a  
'stable' batch that you can bottle and store, but its not hard to  
make CS thats 'temporarily' highly ionic, and isn't that all you  
need?  Why worry about conductance drop? Just drink the stuff while  
its fresh and highly ionic.



David


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CS>Making highly ionic CS. (Was the Silvercell process)

[Alchemysa]

One other thing I forgot to metion in my previous post is that  
consuming large amounts of high ppm CS may may not be such a good  
idea anyway, unless you have a very good reason to do so.  Any claim  
that highly ionic CS 'cannot cause argyria' is purely speculative.


David




As I said, its not that hard, but hardly worth the effort in my  
experience.


David






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CS>Making highly ionic CS. (Was the Silvercell process)

[Alchemysa]

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Alchemysa   
wrote:


Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its  
not that hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and  
keeping the batch size small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+  
with a Silvergen. Mike would dispute this of course.



From: Alan Jones 
Subject: Re: CS>The Silvercell process?

Would you mind sharing more details on this?  How small must the  
batch be?  How pure must the water be?


-Alan



First, you need a generator with current control like a silverpuppy  
or silvergen and theres probably a couple of others. (But it must  
have a 'manual' mode so you can over-ride the auto shutoff). You also  
need continuous gentle stirring. Then connect a multimeter across the  
electrodes so you can measure the voltage. As the silver dissolves  
into the water the required voltage will slowly drop as the generator  
maintains the required current. (e.g 1 mA.) Check the voltage every  
15minutes or so. If the voltage levels out (i.e. you get the same  
voltage reading twice in a row) then stop the power for about 15  
minutes and let it rest before switching the power back on and  
continuing the process.


The batches I have made this way reached about 45uS (or roughly  
45ppm) allowing for about 4 or 5 'pauses'. (I cant remember exactly).  
I did this in something slightly smaller than a pint jar in water  
with an initial reading of about 7uS which is very pure but not  
impossibly difficult to find. This method may work just as well in  
larger batches but I used small batches because you see whats  
happening much quicker.


Conductance drop is caused by the presence of particles in the water.  
The particles are either in the water in the first place or are  
created during the process by over-saturating the silver solution too  
fast and creating silver hydroxide/oxide particles that then 'suck  
in' the ions and reduce conductivity over time. So obviously the  
purpose is to minimise particle formation. (Theoretically ions can't  
combine all by themselves so its the particles that are the problem).


As I said, its not that hard, but hardly worth the effort in my  
experience.


In the absence of a multimeter and a current controlled generator its  
probable that CS with a higher ionic can be made with any genererator  
simply by stopping the generator every so often and letting the batch  
rest for a while before continuing. I haven't tried that but anyone  
with a TDS meter should be able to determine if it works.


David




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CS>The Silvercell process?

[Alchemysa]

David, are you still on his forum?

David




I look in on it occasionally but havent contributed. Like I said,  
after initially claiming it was super simple, his advice seems to be  
getting very complicated. Even if he does sort out his system it may  
produce benefits signicantly less than he promises. Theres really no  
solid evidence that ANY form of CS works any better than any other  
form of CS. Its all anecdotal, and we should all know how unreliable  
that can be. (I'm sure you'll understand that there's no point making  
these comments on Mike's own forum.)


Anyway, I've made 40+ ppm CS with a Silverpuppy in the past. Its not  
that hard. Its just a matter of using very pure water and keeping the  
batch size small.  Trem has also said he's made 40+ with a Silvergen.  
Mike would dispute this of course.


David


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CS>The Silvercell process?

[Alchemysa]

Anyone been able to make head or tail of this? Mike originally  
suggested the whole thing was just about finalised, but it seems far  
from it. In fact its looking more and more like one long meander up  
the garden path to me.  Things seem still to be very much in the  
development phase to me, and for very little benefit anyway. A few  
extra ppm of ionic silver 'might' be produced, but for exactly what  
purpose? Mike's claims of high ionic ppm being vastly superior is  
based on a clinical trail of one person - himself. (A man who is  
constantly sick). Sadly some of his 'followers' seem to be hanging on  
tenterhooks waiting for the big breakthrough instead of just being  
directed on how to make easy, simple CS like we do.



David



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CS>Whats a colloidal silver product?

[Alchemysa]

As far as I'm concerned its anything that contains colloids, either  
as pure silver or silver compounds. A silver oxide or silver  
hydroxide particle in water would therefore qualify. It doesn't  
matter how its made. LV,  HV or made by dissolving silver in nitric  
acid. As long as the particles don't sink to the bottom then they are  
'colloids'.


LVDC contains plenty of colloids. Thats is easily determined with a  
laser, and thats the end of that argument as far as I'm concerned.


All the other 'claimed requirements' to qualify as a 'colloid silver  
product' are just advertising hype. You can also have as much ionic  
silver also in the bottle as you like. There is no rule that says  
what the ionic/particle ratio should be. Silver ions instantly become  
silver chloride colloids the moment they hit the bloodstream anyway.



only a minority statistically would be using/consuming the shop  
bought product.


You might be surprised about that. A health food shop owner told me  
recently that colloidal silver is one of his biggest selling  
products. That surprised me and him!


David





From: Neville Munn 
Date: 3 December 2011 4:53:15 PM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>Re: argyria.


From the vast knowledge base of suitably experienced and well read  
individuals or collectives on here regarding the subject of this  
silver 'stuff' we produce using LVDC, could someone define what  
*actually* constitutes a 'colloidal silver' product?  And for  
clarification, what voltage would be required in producing such a  
product?


From all reputably legitimate literature I've researched over the  
years the product produced by LVDC does NOT constitute what is very  
loosely termed 'colloidal silver'.
As such, whoever markets a product stating 'colloidal silver' on  
the label should also include information relating to the ion/ 
particle ratio of silver in that product {among other things}  
because from all the literature I've ever found, *THAT* is the one  
and only defining point which gives rise to the term 'colloidal  
silver'.  From this information it is not possible to produce a  
'colloidal silver' solution using LVDC.


I have little doubt that by far the majority of EIS users/consumers  
in ANY country on this planet would be using/consuming their own  
LVDC produced products and only a minority statistically would be  
using/consuming the shop bought product.  The ion/particle ratio is  
the defining point.  So the first question I would ask is..."Are  
those products produced using LVDC or HVAC?"  Of course I'm  
ignoring for the moment whatever else may be in those products.


It's not the authorities who are the enemy of the silver user/ 
consumer, they haven't a clue and don't wanna know, it's the many  
and varied marketers out there who are the enemies of the consumer  
with their misleading sales blurbs.  Consumers should be more  
concerned about what's *NOT* printed on the label rather than what  
*IS* printed on that label!


N.

> Fr



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CS>Re: argyria.

[Alchemysa]

http://www.nutrasilver.com/

"At 3,600 PPM, NutraSilver® is unlike store-bought or home-made  
colloidal silver."


First thing to know is, has she actually got argyria?

And if its as you described wouldn't that just get thrown out of  
court? Its clearly a case of deliberate self harm. Like jumping in  
front of a car to claim the insurance, although, its probably stupid  
to say this on his website...


"Impossible to get argyria (turning blue)"

and this

"An Estimated 10 Million Americans Consume Colloidal Silver Daily"

Sounds like he's a bit loose with his facts to me.


David



From: Marshall 
Date: 3 December 2011 9:11:48 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Argyria


I just had a call from Russell, who owns Neutrasilver.  He has some  
lady who apparently painted her body with silver and exposed  
herself to the sun on purpose to try and get argyria, telling one  
of her doctors that she is going to be a millionaire after the  
lawsuit.  He is looking for someone who knows what the heck they  
are talking about, and will not prostitute themselves out to the  
FDA or anyone else for money who can testify in his behalf.


Anyway, if anyone on this list has the credentials to testify, or  
knows someone who does, that is willing to tell the truth, let me  
know.  I was thinking of maybe Brooks Bradley, but don't know how  
to locate him.


Thanks,

Marshall






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CS>Colloidal silver analyzed at Penn State U.

[Alchemysa]

To get to the pdf you might need to copy and paste the whole link  
into your browser...


http://rustumroy.com/Silver water paper MRI vol 11 is 1.pdf


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CS>Colloidal silver analyzed at Penn State U.

[Alchemysa]

This might be the closest examination ever of the physical structure  
of colloidal silver.  Then again it might not be, because, to be  
honest, I can't say I understand much of it at all.


 http://rustumroy.com/Silver water paper MRI vol 11 is 1.pdf


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CS>Asbestosis

[Alchemysa]

(This was sent to me.  David, Australia)


Hello David. Just a bit of information you may be interested in,I was  
diagnosed with Asbestosis (not cancerous)a few years ago,the  
medication (3 different puffers up to 4 times a day)was improving me  
very slowly,I put colloidal silver in my cpap machine for 2 nights  
then nothing for 2 weeks,then 2 nights again,now I just do the silver  
2 nights about every 4 weeks and no other medication,I'm not 100% but  
I'm a hell of a lot better than I was,I don't like to post on public  
forums,but if you find this information useful feel free to use  
it,BUT NOT my full name! thanks,  Brian




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CS>44 PPM

[Alchemysa]

From: Alan Jones
Subject: Re: CS>44 PPM

I wonder if Frank has changed his mind about this?  I was scanning  
his web site and he seems to be saying that ingesting ionic silver  
is useless.


"All ionic silver will turn into silver chloride once inside the  
body because of the readily available supply of chloride ions in  
many different forms."



No he's not saying ionic silver is useless. But he is hoping you will  
'think' thats what he is saying. He simply says 'ionic silver turns  
to silver chloride'...  but then he leaves the conclusion hanging in  
the air for you work out for yourself, and probably get wrong.  He  
wants you to think that ionic silver and silver chloride is useless  
but he doesnt actually say that because he knows it isnt true. (So he  
is actually being honest.).


Hundreds of LABORATORY trials have proven that ALL forms of silver  
kill bacteria. Ions, particles, compounds (eg silver chloride) etc.  
all kill germs.  Some are faster than others but NONE HAVE BEEN  
PROVEN TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE because ABSOLUTELTY NO CLINICAL HUMAN  
TRIALS have EVER been performed to determine this.


Debates about Ions vs Particles, EIS vs mild silver protein, big  
particles Vs small particles, pure silver Vs silver compounds, old  
technology Vs new technology  are all just THEORIES.


David
(Australia)


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Re: Re: CS>spectrographs of CS

[Alchemysa]

Theres no solid evidence that any particular form of silver is any  
more 'effective' than any other form. Numerous lab test seem to  
indicate that all forms of silver are effective. Pure silver  
particles, silver ions, and all sorts of silver compounds, all seem  
to kill germs.


There are indications that some forms of silver may kill pathogens  
'quicker' (in vitro) but that doesn't mean that in the longer term  
they are any more effective. For example a pure silver particle (eg  
mesosilver) may (or may not) work more 'slowly', but it may retain  
its effectiveness for much longer, thereby killing more pathogens  
overall, so the benefit ultimately may be greater than an ion that  
(may) work only momentarily.


Anyway all the results we have are 'in vitro' (i.e. lab tests). We  
have no real idea of whats really happening in the human body. And is  
there any such thing as a silver 'ion' in the blood stream anyway?  
Don't silver ions immeadiately become a 'silver compound particle'  
the instant they are ingested?


The whole argument about smaller particles being more effective than  
larger particles is somewhat nebulous too. I can't say I've ever seen  
a lab test that proves it, and theres certainly no clinical trials  
that support it.


The bottom line is that we need to be very careful about making  
definitive statements based on lab tests. Pure CS in a petri dish is  
a very different proposition to a mouthful of CS swallowed by an  
adult human.


David
(Australia)


  Re: CS>spectrographs of CS[ David AuBuchon  


Hi Marshall,

Smaller particles being the most effective among particles...but  
all in all you would still say the ionic portion of EIS is  
responsible for most of the results, right?


~David




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CS>Possible colloidal silver injuries.

[Alchemysa]

A while ago I bought the complete report described in the first link.

 "Myoclonic status epilepticus following repeated oral ingestion of  
colloidal silver". (Death of a 71 year old man. )


The full details are somewhat more complicated than the abstract  
suggests.  As you will see, its barely credible the doctors can even  
blame colloidal silver for the initial seizure let alone his ultimate  
death.


Heres the sequence of events

1. Man aged about 70 finds out he has prostate cancer.
2. Takes Bicalutamide (a prescribed drug with a few side effects) for  
3 months.
3. Following this he tried "various nutritional and vitamin  
supplements, homeopathic remedies such as PC-SPES and essiac tea, and  
colloidal silver". (It's claimed his CS machine produced 4 litres of  
10ppm in 30 minutes). He drinks about one ounce a day for 4 months.  
(An ounce is a very small amount for many consumers.)
4. Wife and daughter confiscate his CS machine and give it to  
doctors. (Presumably this ended his CS intake)
5. His prostate antigen level increases so he ceases all non- 
conventional treatment and undergoes 7 weeks (35 cycles) of radiation  
therapy.
6. Seizures begin 1 month after radio therapy ceases. (This appears  
to be about 3 MONTHS AFTER CEASING CS INGESTION)
7. He goes into 'Myoclonic status epilepticus' (a constant seizure)  
so doctors put him into an INDUCED COMA and pump him with various drugs.

8. Patient deteriorates to a persistent vegetative condition.
9. Patient is shifted to his home town hospital where he dies of  
PNEUMONIA 5.5 months after seizures begin. (The cause of death is  
absolutely clear in the report)
A quote from the report.."His (the patients) extensive investigations  
(tests), including cranial MRIs, somatosensory evoked potentials,  
routine and special CSF studies for viruses or other microorganisms,  
porphyria, Hashimoto thyroiditis, connective tissue disease, and anti- 
Hu antibodies, WERE NORMAL. Patient’s liver function was also NORMAL.  
Therefore, we HYPOTHESIZE the patient’s condition was caused by  
silver toxicity.


In other words... "We checked everything and the only trace of  
anything we could find was silver, so we are HYPOTHESIZING the silver  
(that he stopped taking 3 MONTHS before the seizures!) must have done  
it! Sorry Mum and Daughter, its not our fault. He had a seizure  
because of that darned silver!" If I was a cynic I could suggest  
conventional medicine killed him, and colloidal silver became a  
convenient scapegoat.




David (The other one).






From: David AuBuchon 
Date: 15 August 2011 6:02:45 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>possible colloidal silver injuries?


Sorry, those are not the links...not sure how I did that.  Here  
they are:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15111684?dopt=Citation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19729504

~David

CS>CS and Breast Cancer Cells - Research

[Alchemysa]

A peer reviewed study appearing in PubMed indicating CS might be both  
effective and safe.


"Antitumor activity of colloidal silver on MCF-7 human breast cancer  
cells."


(Colloidal Silver was toxic to breast cancer cells but NOT toxic to  
blood cells.)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21080962

The full paper is here

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996348/pdf/ 
1756-9966-29-148.pdf
RESULTS: Colloidal silver had dose-dependent cytotoxic effect in  
MCF-7 breast cancer cells through induction of apoptosis, shown an  
LD50 (3.5 ng/mL) and LD100 (14 ng/mL) (*P < 0.05), significantly  
decreased LDH (*P < 0.05) and significantly increased SOD (*P < 0.05)  
activities. However, the NO production, and Gpx, CAT, and Total  
antioxidant activities were not affected in MCF-7 breast cancer  
cells. PBMC were not altered by colloidal silver.


CONCLUSIONS: The present results showed that colloidal silver might  
be a potential alternative agent for human breast cancer therapy.



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CS>Its only mice but

[Alchemysa]

This is an in-vivo trial on real living critters. It's the closest  
thing to a human trial I've yet seen. And its in PubMed so it should  
even give the skeptics some reason to pause.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715611/

"Our report on the use of aerosolized silver as an antimicrobial for  
pulmonary infections joins a recent resurgence in interest in silver  
compounds that includes the development of several different  
preparations for topical use, some of which incorporate  
nanocrystalline silver (5, 10). This report is the first to  
investigate the direct nebulization of a silver carbene complex in  
solution as a potential therapy for pulmonary infections. Given that  
SCC1 appears to be safe and effective in these animal models of lung  
infection, further studies of SCC1 and other silver carbene  
compounds, either directly aerosolized in solution or in a  
nanoparticle suspension (17), appear to be warranted. Nebulized  
silver-based antimicrobials may serve as useful adjuncts to the  
current therapies for difficult-to-treat pulmonary infections."


(Good news for those who nebulise their pets)

David


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CS>Will someone ask NCCAM a question?

[Alchemysa]

PT.

There is absolutely no way colloidal silver is 'flying under the  
radar'.  To varying degrees its in the sights of the FDA, the TGA,  
Big Pharma, llttle pharma, the media, and every trolling blogger who  
has nothing better to do.


Sooner or later someone will convince the FDA to apply the 'no  
evidence required' Precautionary Principle and just ban the sale of  
colloidal silver or CS  generators.


The best defence is unbiased, credible scientific research. I would  
accept the outcome of that no matter which way it goes.


But my original question was simply that we ask NCCAM if they have  
ever had an application for a grant.  I think the answer to that  
question alone would be very interesting.


David



From: "PTF" 
Date: 3 July 2011 9:30:59 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>Will someone ask NCCAM a question for me?


I for one would not like this research done.  I don't like to call  
the attention of the government to anything alternative that  
works.  Before long it will be harder to find or use.  Better to  
fly under the radar.

PT



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CS>Will someone ask NCCAM a question for me?

[Alchemysa]

The NCCAM is the US National Centre for Complementary and Alternative  
Medicine. Most of you have probably heard of it. They spend MILLIONS  
OF YOUR DOLLARS funding research into alternative health products.


(http://nccam.nih.gov/  http://nccam.nih.gov/grants/)

It appears they have never conducted or funded any original research  
into Colloidal Silver.  I'd like to know why.  (Yes I know they have  
a 'Backgrounder' but that's not what I'm looking for.)


My request is that one or more of you 'Silverlisters' will send the  
following brief email to NACCM. I think the appropriate contact to  
start with would be this person..


Carol Pontzer, Ph.D.  E-mail: pontz...@mail.nih.gov
(http://nccam.nih.gov/grants/contact/#jg)

"Dear Dr Pontzer,

Could you please advise me if NCCAM has ever received an application  
for a grant to conduct research into the medicinal use of Colloidal  
Silver? If so, could you please advise me of your response to that  
request.


I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards
Your name, address, phone, etc."


(As an Australian I think it would probably be useless to ask NCCAM  
myself. I doubt I would even get a response. So I'm hoping one of you  
US TAXPAYERS will take up the task and get back to the group.)


Please note that I'm not interested in getting funding myself. I just  
think the answer to this question could be quite enlightening.  It  
looks to me like the vast bulk of NCCAM research funding goes to  
medical schools and universities who know that its a bad idea to  
rattle Big Pharma's chain, so consequently they research stuff that  
the big drug companies couldn't care less about. (See completed NACCM  
trials here... http://tiny.cc/hmsb0 ).


If no research has been done simply because no-one has asked for  
funding then maybe thats something we should make widely known.


So, will someone do this for me and the silverlist team.

Cheers,
David











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CS>Distilled water in the U.K.?

[Alchemysa]

Does anyone know about the availability of distilled, demineralised  
or reverse osmosis water in the UK? Seems some people are paying  
crazy prices for water from pharmacies.


I have people asking me about this, but I'm in Australia.

David


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CS>117 ppm ionic colloidal silver.

[Alchemysa]

Heres a follow-up to the 'Very High ppm' post I made a couple of days  
ago.


A friend of mine (Geoff) told me he had produced colloidal silver  
with a conductivity of 117 uS.  Naturally I was sceptical, but he's  
an an experienced and knowledgeable brewer, and meticulously careful,  
so we had a coffee and talked about it.


Heres the story: For a month or two Geoff had been saving his  
colloidal silver 'dregs' in a separate container. The purpose of this  
was to accumulate about 300 mls (10 ozs) of extremely strong  
colloidal silver to put into a Gel for external use. (I also do this  
myself and it looks like axle grease).  Geoff is a fastidious fellow  
so these dregs were accumulated in a small jar that had been  
thoroughly washed, and was capped after each top up. (Prior to this  
project the jar had been used many times to brew CS so the chance of  
external contamination from something other than silver is small.)  
These dregs were collected from batches that had been made with 1.0  
uS water and . silver.


After collecting about 300mls of this inky stuff Geoff decided to  
boost it even further, so he put his Silverwell (an Aussie  
Silverpuppy) on top, put it in SWAP and Manual mode, turned on the  
stirrer, and let go for about 24 hours. (Unfortunately he did not  
measure the brew beforehand but I have a near identical jar of dregs  
and it measured about 18uS).


After about 10 hours of brewing Geoff happened to measure the batch  
and was surprised to discover it had hit 72.5 uS on his EC meter.  
This was a surprise because usually when a batch is pushed too hard  
it simply maxes out at about 20 uS and stays there (or falls) no  
matter how long you run the generator.


So Geoff then decided to see how high he could raise the uS in this  
particular jar of dregs. Each day from Oct 11 to Oct 24 he ran the  
generator for 3.5 hours. As usual he kept records of everything. He  
measured the batch before and after every batch. The generator  
resulted in an increased uS on every occasion.


On day 1 the batch went from 72.5 to 82 uS.  After each session the  
uS would stabilise and drop back a few points, but ultimately his  
most recent session on the 14th day started at 113 uS and finished at  
117 uS.


By the way, the Silverwell Generator fits the top of the brewing jar  
quite snuggly so significant contamination from the air is unlikely.


So regardless of the 'colloidal' or 'particulate' strength of this  
particular mess it seems that he as produced CS with an ionic ppm of  
117 ppm. I can't think of any other explanation for the increase in  
conductivity, this batch contains nothing but silver and water and  
has had very little exposure to the air.


So how could this high uS be possible? One crazy idea I have is that  
this batch is now so laden with 'particles' that it has reached a  
kind of 'colloidal saturation' that is forcing the  silver ions to  
stay in solution. The silver ions want to bind with something but  
what if they can't find anything to bind with?


I want to mention again how meticulous this guy is. He has kept  
detailed records of every single batch he has made in the last 5  
years. He records brew time, water purity, final ppm, temperature,  
and time of day.  And as I said in the first post he cleans his  
electrodes with an ultrasonic jewellery cleaner.


Any thoughts on this?

Cheers
David

(Footnote:  I'm currently running my generator in my own jar of  
dregs. It started out at 18 uS. It been running for about 6 hours now  
and its up to 48.6 uS. Actually the brew is quite clear. The heavier  
dregs have fallen to the bottom. )












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CS>Very high ppm.

[Alchemysa]

A friend of mine religiously cleans his electrodes with an ultrasonic  
jewellery cleaner. He's made hundreds of batches with a Silverwell  
(an Australian version of the Silverpuppy.) He's never tried to make  
super strong stuff before but he emailed me recently to say he's just  
made a batch that has so far reached 111 uS and is still climbing.


I must find out more. I don't know how often he has cleaned the  
electrodes during this particular batch. I'm sure there is an  
alternative explanation for this extraordinarily high uS but  
nevertheless 'clean electrodes' could be more important than I  
imagined. The ultrasonic action would even knock some of the tiny  
pure silver particles off the electrodes that might otherwise  
'contaminate' the batch.


David


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CS>NEWS FLASH!!

[Alchemysa]

NEWS FLASH! SCIENTIST FINDS A MORE COMPLICATED WAY TO MAKE COLLOIDAL  
SILVER!


http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wellbeing/science-may-have-found- 
silver-bullet-for-common-cold-20101017-16p6h.html


http://bit.ly/a6z2Pz


David







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CS>Silver Generators

[Alchemysa]

From: jaxi 
Date: 2 September 2010 2:50:48 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Generators


I'm glad it is working for you.  I think it seems over priced and I  
question some of the claims they make - but I'm no expert.  I'll  
let the experts on the list speak on the merits of machine and it's  
ability to do what they say it does.



Steve Barwick of Silveredge writes so much BS its kinda sickening.  
Remember he's the guy who plastered all over the web that CS had been  
banned in Europe so you better buy one of his generators before its  
too late.


His 'micro-particle generator' sales pitch is just more BS, as a  
close look at his website quickly reveals.


Heres a few choice quotes

"" In short, the built-in water resistance tester allows you to know  
right from the start whether or not the distilled water you are using  
is of a sufficiently high-quality to produce silver micro-particles.  
To our knowledge, no other colloidal silver generator on the market  
today provides you with this crucial benefit." "


(He sure didn't do much research or he's just a liar. Off the top of  
my head I know of at least 5 others including the Silverpuppy,  
Silvergen, Colloidmaster and Silverwell. The first 3 are probably the  
best known generators of the last 10 years.)


'""By dramatically reducing the voltage-to-amperage ratio, the silver  
particles merely trickle off the positive silver electrode at a much  
slower rate" "


(Silver particles dont trickle off the electrodes. Only ions trickle  
off the electrode. This is basic low voltage electrochemistry. Could  
it be that his micro-particles are really just ions?)


""Super-aerating (sic) the water prevents excessive electrical  
conductivity from building up," "


(Actually it most likely increases conductivity by making the water  
more acidic.)


""With the new Micro-Particle Colloidal Silver Generator, if the  
aeration goes out you know it immediately, because the bubbling will  
stop.""


(Ha ha. He can even make 'breaking down' sound like a feature!!!)

""Once the individual silver particles are dispersed throughout the  
solution, the positive electrical charge they carry becomes dominant,  
and they go into Brownian motion. In other words, from that point  
forward they are able to repel each other and remain suspended in the  
solution indefinitely without agglomerating"!


(A 'positive electrical charge'? Could he mean Ag+?  Sounds like he's  
admitting he's making 'ions' just like every other generator.)


""It is the ionic form of silver -- and not the metallic particle  
form -- that is most readily utilized by the human body. " "


(So there you have it. His generator is making ions after all, not  
the inferior 'metallic' form.)


Barwick is just a slick copywriter trying to make his very ordinary  
generator sound special. He'll fool a lot of people.



David



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CS>question about particles

[Alchemysa]

"No, the only thing that comes off the anode are silver and  
hydrogen ions."



I'm not convinced of that. If you look at an old electrode under a  
magnifying glass you'll see that the surface looks like a moonscape  
or swiss cheese. Lots of holes and craters. Its especially clear if  
the electrode has been cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner. This leads  
me to think theres a lot of physical undercutting and erosion  
happenning at the same time as the electrolysis. So I'd suggest  
theres a lot of small pieces of silver 'falling off' the electrode.


Frank Key seems to be able to detect and measure the particles in CS  
but not to be able determine what they are made of.  Or he's not  
telling.



David




From: Marshall Dudley 
Date: 1 September 2010 11:45:51 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>question about particles in ionic silver




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CS>Highest Total ppm?

[Alchemysa]

We know the maximum ppm of IONIC silver in pure water is about 26  
ppm. And we know 'true' colloidal silvers (e.g. Mesosilver) have a  
PARTICULATE ppm up to 32 ppm. But whats the maximum TOTAL ppm that  
can be achieved with some level of stability in pure water? Would it  
be the sum of these two, or is it a case of 'one or the other'?  I  
guess I'm raising the question of 'saturation points' and 'suspension  
points' (if there is such a thing), and how they interact. And I'm  
thinking of a batch thats made purely by electolysis.


One problem in answering this question myself is that I rely on  
silver-colloids.com. for various details. But silver-colloids uses  
commercially purchased or privately submitted batches for testing,  
and these batches tend to be clear or pale yellow, and hence only  
about 15ppm TOTAL . No-one ever submits a really dirty batch for  
testing do they?


David





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CS>cs and antibiotics (Stop worrying)

[Alchemysa]

The original source for the NCCAM warning is The Natural Medicines  
Comprehensive Database. A while ago I subscribed to that service  
specifically to learn more about that particular warning.


Well there wasn't much more to learn. The NMCD had no supporting  
references and the risk was described as 'Theoretical and Minor'. So  
I wouldn't worry too much.


(The fact the NCCAM published this 'theoretical' risk without any  
explanation sorta tells whose side they're on doesn't it?)



David



From: "Norton, Steve" 



The warning originated from the National
Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), a part  
of the

NIH. See:

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/

"Colloidal silver may interfere with the body's absorption of the
following drugs: penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and
thyroxine."






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CS>A patent applied for making CS

[Alchemysa]

'Patent Applied for' is usually impressive enough to whack on a  
label. No need to actually GET a patent.


One thing in Mr Holladay's favour though is that he did do his  
homework...


http://www.silverwell.com.au/rob_holladay.htm


David


Treatment of humans with colloidal silver composition Robert J.  
Holladay et al


Overview
Abstract
Description
Claims

Patent number: 7135195
Filing date: Aug 15, 2003
Issue date: Nov 14, 2006
Application number: 10/641,938

We disclose a colorless composition comprising silver particles and  
water, wherein said particles comprise an interior of elemental  
silver and an exterior of ionic silver oxide, wherein the silver  
particles are present in the water at a level of about 5–40 ppm,  
and wherein the composition...


Inventors: Robert J. Holladay, Herbert Christensen, William D. Moeller
Assignees: American Silver, LLC
Primary Examiner: John Pak
Attorneys: Liner, Yankelevitz, Sunshine & Regenstreif LLP

Read this patent

Download PDF

U.S. Classification
424/618; 424/405; 424/489; 424/490; 424/616; 514/849; 514/858;  
514/894; 514/895; 514/924; 514/931; 514/932; 514/934; 514/951

View patent at USPTO




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CS>8 myths about CS.

[Alchemysa]

Something I saved a while back. Might have appeared here before...  
but worth repeating occassionaly.


David



8 Prevalent Myths and Misconceptions About Colloidal Silver



Myth #1: Children are being harmed by colloidal silver

In June of this year, the Friends of the Earth environmentalist group  
came out with their new position paper calling for a total ban on the  
over-the-counter sales of colloidal silver products as well as EPA  
regulation of all products using silver as an antimicrobial agent.  
And why? Because, they claimed, the proliferation of silver-based  
antimicrobial products is depriving children of coming into contact  
with the requisite number of pathogens needed to stimulate their tiny  
immune systems.


Of course, it's an unbelievable claim at face value. After all,  
little kids eat dirt. They roll around in the grass and dirt all day,  
throw mud balls at each other, play baseball in empty lots, climb  
trees, swim in lakes and rivers, play on dirty floors, climb into  
dumpsters in search of “treasure,” and do all of the things needed to  
put them into contact with hundreds of billions of microorganisms  
every single day of their lives. Yet the Friends of the Earth -- with  
a straight face, mind you -- presented as a reason to ban colloidal  
silver and other silver-based products the idea that kids’ immune  
systems were being developmentally deprived thanks to the  
proliferation of so many silver-based products. And this new myth is  
now being picked up in forums across the internet, and used as  
"evidence" that colloidal silver is harmful. Clearly, these guys at  
the Friends of the Earth have never had children.


Myth #2: Colloidal silver has been “banned by the FDA”

Recently we also saw an MSNBC news article written by reporter Mike  
Celizic which declared that the FDA had “banned colloidal silver”  
back in 1999. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth.  
What the FDA did was prohibit colloidal silver vendors from labeling  
their product as a “natural antibiotic” and restrict colloidal silver  
advertisers from talking about its powerful antimicrobial qualities  
in advertisements.


This restrictive action, of course, led to more public interest in  
colloidal silver than it had ever enjoyed in its entire 100 year  
history, and propelled colloidal silver into one of the most popular  
nutritional supplements of all times. Celizic's erroneous contention,  
however, has now been picked up by other writers and spread across a  
variety of internet forums where it is being used by opponents of  
natural health to convince people not to use colloidal silver because  
it’s been “banned by the FDA.”


Myth #3: Colloidal silver causes a “cytokine storm”

Next, we had a famous internet doctor claim that colloidal silver  
could cause a potentially deadly “cytokine storm” (massive  
inflammation) in the lungs of even healthy individuals. The doctor  
presented no evidence whatsoever for his claim. And a quick search of  
the available medical data demonstrated that the only significant  
research done on colloidal silver and cytokines showed that silver  
actually modifies cytokine expression and reduces inflammation. The  
authors of the medical study even stated that colloidal silver should  
be further investigated as a potential treatment for the massive  
inflammation caused by the “cytokine storm” phenomena. The famous  
internet doctor later removed the erroneous statement from his web  
site, but not before other writers spread it all over the internet as  
"evidence" that colloidal silver usage can have potentially "deadly"  
consequences.


Myth #4: Colloidal silver harms human cells

We also recently saw the old “colloidal silver harms human cells”  
myth being dredged up again. Once more, the culprit was the  
environmental group Friends of the Earth, which erroneously  
attributes medical research demonstrating that silver damages  
bacterial cells (i.e., e. coli cells) as evidence that silver damages  
human cells. Of course, they can’t explain how Dr. Robert O. Becker  
of Syracuse Medical University was able to conduct all of those now  
famous in vivo (i.e., in the body) medical studies on human subjects,  
in which he used an electronic device to drive billions of tiny  
silver particles deep into the infected tissue and bone of  
“incurable” victims of osteomyelitis, and managed to cure every one  
of them without causing any harm whatsoever to their cells or tissues.


Certain other internet writers have also misinterpreted a recent test  
tube study demonstrating that high levels of silver in the blood  
stream could harm certain human cells. The levels of silver used in  
these lab tests would have been the equivalent of 15 ppm in the human  
blood stream – a level you couldn’t reach without drinking gallons of  
a standard colloidal silver solution.


Myth #5: Colloidal silver causes hardening of the arteries

Honestly, I don’t know

CS>Distiller readings

[Alchemysa]

Neville

It's about 40 uS if I collect it in a bucket before it hits the  
tank.  Probably not bad considering litter in the gutters are a  
constant hassle here. (Although the meter can't read dissolved  
organic matter anyway.)


I must collect some from another part of the roof where it doesnt run  
into a gutter.



David





From: Neville Munn 
Date: 6 May 2010 9:10:38 AM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>Distiller readings


What's a rough uS reading on your rainwater straight from the tank  
in adelaide David?


N.




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CS>Distiller readings

[Alchemysa]

From: "needling around" 
Date: 5 May 2010 10:06:16 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>Distiller readings


Hi, When you write "ppm" you don't say ppm of what?
Thanks.



It's ppm of 'salt', the most common impurity in water, and the only  
stuff that ordinary ppm meters are calibrated to measure with any  
accuracy.


Yes 325ppm is lousy for tap water. (Adelaide, South Australia.) Low  
rainfall, high evapration, etc. The water is filtered at the  
reservoirs but that doesnt remove the salt. I usually try to distil  
rainwater but I had run out.


David







PT

----- Original Message - From: "Alchemysa"  


To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:32 AM
Subject: CS>Distiller readings


It's been mentioned here before that one should not use the last  
cup  of water that comes out of a steam distiller (for making CS).
Out of interest I measured the ppm of an early cup of water from  
my  gallon distiller and compared it with the last cupfull.
Initial tap  water reading was 325 ppm.

Early cup: 3.4uS  (1 ppm)
Last cup: 7.6 uS (3 ppm)
The initial ppm was 325 ppm.
Clearly theres a major deterioration in water quality when you  
start  to boil off those last dregs in the distiller.

David
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CS>Distiller readings

[Alchemysa]

It's been mentioned here before that one should not use the last cup  
of water that comes out of a steam distiller (for making CS).


Out of interest I measured the ppm of an early cup of water from my  
gallon distiller and compared it with the last cupfull.   Initial tap  
water reading was 325 ppm.


Early cup: 3.4uS  (1 ppm)
Last cup: 7.6 uS (3 ppm)
The initial ppm was 325 ppm.

Clearly theres a major deterioration in water quality when you start  
to boil off those last dregs in the distiller.


David




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CS>Argyia or Sepia?

[Alchemysa]

Many of us will have heard that taking selenium (usually in Brazil  
nuts) may possibly reduce the risk of argyria. Perhaps it may also  
provide a year-round 'sepia' tan.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_print_toning

(Selenium toning is a popular archival toning process, converting  
metallic silver to silver selenide. In a diluted toning solution,  
selenium toning gives a red-brown tone")


David




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CS>Barwick's BS about CS

[Alchemysa]

From: "M. G. Devour" 

David,
Well, this whole thing is one reason the list rules say:

"Brief heads-up messages about legislation, regulation, or politics of
relevance to Colloidal Silver or *important* alternative health issues
may be posted *occasionally*, with follow-up to be taken off list."



Yeah, I must read them list rules one day. :)


David





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CS>Barwick's BS about CS

[Alchemysa]

SILVER BANNED! That's hype.




Mike. Its worse than hype. Barwick has probably cost people their  
jobs.  Can you imagine what this has done to colloidal silver sales  
around the world, particularly in Europe? In his greedy rush to panic  
people into buying his 2nd rate machine he's done tremendous harm.  
For Barwick to continue to claim that silver is banned, when he knows  
its not true, makes him a blatant liar.  And he's a fool as well  
because rather than admit his mistake he falsely claims that CS  
retailers are using a 'loophole' to continue to sell CS. What an  
idiot. Bureaucrats just love to close loopholes.


The truth is that CS has not been banned. It's perfectly legal. It's  
still available in every health store. It is not being sold via a  
'loophole'. It is being sold without restriction. The only change is  
a minor change to labelling that prevents any claim that its a  
'mineral supplement.'



David



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CS>Confusion Making CS

[Alchemysa]

From: brf 
Date: 23 February 2010 9:56:39 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Confusion Making CS


Please excuse me for appearing to be so dense David but if I'm  
getting a reading on the TDS meter of 15 ppm, does that mean it's  
actually roughly 30 ppm?
I have seen some of my batches with 'sparklies' in them when using  
the laser and I'm assuming these are the larger 'solid' particles  
that you're referring to. Is that right?



Yes thats very roughly correct if you are using a TDS meter. You have  
very roughly 30ppm of ionic silver, plus a bunch of 'particulate'  
silver ( thats the sparklies and other stuff you can see in the  
laser.).  If the water is clear then its very roughly a ratio of  
around 80% ionic to 20% particles, suggesting your particulate ppm is  
very roughly 6ppm, meaning you have a TOTAL ppm of very roughly 36ppm.


Notice how many times I said 'very roughly'!!!  By the time you  
compound all those 'very roughlies' you can be off the mark by a  
pretty massive amount so don't take meter readings to seriously.   
They just provide a handy guide to help you get some repeatabiliy.


David



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CS>Barwick's BS about CS.

[Alchemysa]

Hello Mike

You asked...


So, is it true that CS is actually BANNED, and no longer being sold in
Europe, or is it only that some labelling requirements have been
changed?

Answer that, please?



Barwicks own colloidalsilversecrets blog answers that question in the  
same article in which he claims that CS is banned. This is Barwicks  
interview with someone called Sultan who Barwick claims is a major  
Europeon CS guru/retailer


(Quote.)

BARWICK: "So re-labeling your product as a “water disinfectant” is  
basically a loophole that allows you to continue selling colloidal  
silver legally, as long as you don’t tell people how to use it for  
food supplement purposes?"


SULTAN: "Yes. That’s right. Most health food stores in Sweden already  
sell products used for water purification and have no problem with  
continuing to carry our colloidal silver product, called Ionosil, now  
that we’ve reclassified it as a water disinfectant.  In reality, the  
product is identical to what we had registered as a food supplement  
for the past nine years. It is only the label that has changed EVER  
SO SLIGHTLY" (my emphasis)


(End quote.)


So there it is straight from Barwick himself. Theres a 'loophole' (as  
Barwick calls it) that allows colloidal silver to be legally sold.



David



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CS>Barwick's BS about CS.

[Alchemysa]

Well John, as you say, Steve Barwicks little finger might know more  
about colloidal silver than me but his brain doesnt seem to know the  
difference between ions and particles.



"" the new Micro-Particle Home Colloidal Silver Generator produces  
highly bio-available silver particles as low as .0008 microns so  
small, they are about as close to being "dissolved" silver particles  
as you can get.  Creating sub-microscopic silver micro-particles with  
a standard low-voltage DC-current colloidal silver generator was  
initially thought to be impossible. ""


but later..

""You’ll always be able to produce the superior ionic form of  
colloidal silver, which is up to 1,000 times more potent than silver  
particulates being sold by commercial colloidal silver vendors!  And  
to my knowledge, no one…and I repeat, no one…has found particulate  
colloidal silver to be superior to ionic silver, except for the  
internet promoters who constantly claim their bottled particulate  
colloidal silver products are superior to all others. Isn’t that  
interesting?""


So what does his 'Revolutionary micro particle generator' with a  
timer and bubbler make? ions or particles? It make ions of course,  
just like every other home made generator.


But John I don't expect you to critically review any of the reams of  
BS  spewed out by Barwick. You've already committed yourself with  
that glowing testimonial on his website ..


"I've recommended the Micro-particle Colloidal Silver Water maker for  
years to many friends who now have them, Bill Cooper being one of  
them. It's the only CSW maker I recommend - I've had one for a few  
years - the best I've ever owned! Thank you."

-- John Stevens "



regards
David



On 23/02/2010, at 12:41 AM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:




From: "John E. Stevens" 
Date: 22 February 2010 10:22:35 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Barwick's BS about CS.


Here we go with the repetitious, inane, 3rd grade name-calling,  
again.  It's no wonder the 'smart people' no longer have anything  
to say on silverlist - the wonderful "we-we" community.  Steve  
Barwick's little finger knows about Colloidal Silver Water than  
you'll ever know, David.  And yeah, Steve is a friend - a much  
wiser friend than you  could ever ascend to.  As carefully  
explained here before, Europe is moving in an evolutionary way,  
like the progressives in the U.S., to ban silver water. As is the  
EPA, John McCain and a number of others.  You don't fight this  
battle by sticking your head in the sand...  Please WAKE UP...


John



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CS>Confusion Making CS

[Alchemysa]

You can roughly measure the dissolved ionic silver with a meter as  
long as the CS is clear. (Double it if you are using a TDS/ppm meter).


The 'solid' particles that are also in the batch are not measurable  
with a meter but you can see them with a laser.


Its all pretty rough but its the best you can do unless you want to  
spend hundreds on a professional lab.


David




From: brf 
Date: 23 February 2010 12:31:20 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Confusion Making CS


So what is the best way of attempting to measure the silver you're  
producing then? Or is there?


From: Alchemysa 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 3:43:32 AM
Subject: CS>Confusion Making CS

>
>



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CS>Barwick's BS about CS.

[Alchemysa]

Sandee.

You are probably thinking of Stephen Barrett,  the Quackwatch guy.

But I'm talking about Steve Barwick, who also goes by the name of  
Spencer Jones.


David




From: Sandee George 
Date: 23 February 2010 12:27:36 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Barwick's BS about CS.


Hi There David - in my view he is not an idiot, he is in the pay of  
Big Pharma consciously, physically or subconsciously and life goes on

Cheers, have a great and interesting day
Sandee


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CS>Confusion Making CS

[Alchemysa]

From: brf 
Date: 22 February 2010 9:44:54 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Confusion Making CS


Looks like I'm going to have to re-evaluate what I'm doing.
Thanks for your thoughts & link. I'll try to digest the information.
By the way, the distilled water when starting measures at 000.




Where are you getting the distilled water from?  And note that meters  
only tell part of the story. They do NOT measure the presence of  
particles or organic impurities. So as it says below  "a cup of  
distilled water that contains a tablespoon of sugar and finely  
powdered glass may display a ppm reading of near zero even though its  
obviously not pure."


David


Heres some stuff about meters...

Many people think that a PPM meter gives a definitive reading of the  
purity of water. This is not true. A ppm meter can only detect those  
dissolved impurities that raise the electrical conductivity of the  
water. So a meter can only determine the ppm of the dissolved NON- 
ORGANIC impurities (e.g. dissolved salts) because only these  
impurities raise the conductivity. It cannot detect the dissolved  
ORGANIC impurities* that may also be in the water (e.g. sugar or  
rotted leaf litter). Nor can a ppm meter detect the microscopic solid  
particles that may be in the water (i.e. the grit). So a cup of  
distilled water that contains a tablespoon of sugar and finely  
powdered glass may display a ppm reading of near zero even though its  
obviously not pure.


So, when using a ppm meter to measure water purity, you have to know  
if the dissolved organic impurities and the fine particles have been  
removed along with the salts. The only way to remove all these  
impurities is with a high quality reverse osmosis/deionisation system  
or with careful steam distillation.


The shortcomings of meters mentioned here should especially be  
considered when measuring the purity of rain water. Although the rain  
water may initially be pure, it can become significantly contaminated  
by organic impurities in the gutters and the tank. Although these  
impurities are not detectable by the meter they can have quite a  
detrimental effect on colloidal silver production.


(* One qualification to the comment above about the 'non  
conductivity' of organic impurities concerns the presence of acid.  
Any acid raises the electrical conductivity of water and can induce a  
completely meaningless reading on a ppm meter. While organic  
impurities usually do not register on a ppm meter, a few drops of,  
say, acidic lemon juice in a glass of water will produce readings in  
the 100's.)



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CS>Barwick's BS about CS.

[Alchemysa]

Even though its untrue, I've had half a dozen people say to me that  
CS has been banned in Europe.
"Gee, it must be dangerous if its been banned" and "Hey, Google is  
full of references that say CS is banned in Europe."



Steve Barwick (aka Spencer Jones) is an idiot. All he has done is get  
more people thinking that perhaps it SHOULD be banned.



David



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CS>Confusion Making CS

[Alchemysa]

1. 12 hours in a litre is way too long for a simple 27v battery  
system that has no way of limiting the current.  You've made very  
strong stuff but I wouldnt drink too much of it for too long or it  
will turn you grey. (Good for topical use though). Probably an hour  
is about all it needs. You should be switching it off as soon as it  
turns the slightest, almost imperceptible, silver/grey color.


2. If you put that batch aside you'll probably see most of the silver  
lying on the bottom in a day or two.


3. Meters only read the dissolved ionic component. Ionic content  
usually maxes out at around 20ppm. After that, you could run the  
generator all week but you wont see the meter reading go up. In fact  
it can actually appear to go down. But your real total ppm could be  
1000 ppm or more because you have silver locked up in the particles  
that are turning the water various colors. Meters are a rough guide  
at the best of times and virtually useless once the water becomes  
colored.  I've tried to explain meters here...http:// 
www.silverwell.com.au/TDS-Meter.html


4. If you are using a meter to measure ionic ppm you have to times it  
by 2 to 2.5 times.


5. If the water goes white/grey its probably impure. Greyness  
indicates some salt in the water (although your meter should be  
showing that anywway).  Whats the ppm of the water?


6. Spacing the electrodes slows down the process but thats a good  
thing. As is stirring. Otherwise all you do is create an ionic  
traffic jam between the electrodes where large undesirable particles  
will be created.



David

On 22/02/2010, at 8:10 AM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:





On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:08 AM, brf  wrote:
> I'm confused here and looking for some elementary help or  
direction as to

> where I might find help.
>
> I've been making CS for a very short time - using a homemade  
device -
> basically 14 gauge  hooked up to 3  9 volt batteries and 1  
inch apart.

> Usually a litre (roughly equivalent to a quart) takes several hours,
> probably around 12 or so hours to make and comes out pale to medium
> yellow between 15 to 20 ppm as measured on a TDS meter.
>
> I realize a lot of factors can influence the making process. Last  
night I
> tried several different experiments using various set ups. One  
was spacing
> the wires 1 1/2 inches apart. I noticed this seemed to accelerate  
the
> process a little and when I got up this morning after 9 hours  
'brewing',

> this particular batch was grey and very cloudy reading at 15 ppm. I
> thought it was no good but as the morning has worn on  the  
cloudiness is

> clearing and it has no colour at all and still reading at 15 ppm.
>
> Several questions. Is this alright to drink? I understand clear  
CS is
> supposed to be superior to yellow but also that a long slow  
process time is

> supposed to produce better quality. This batch took less time than
> normal. Is this garbage or have I accidentally stumbled onto a  
better

> process do you think?
>
> Also is it usual that spacing your silver wire further apart  
speeds up the

> process?
>
> I know there are a lot of experienced minds here and much of the  
information
> is beyond me at this point but I'm trying to grasp as much as  
possible right

> now. Appreciate any help you can offer.
>
> Thanks
> Shannah
>
>



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CS>Medisana Humidifier

[Alchemysa]

The Medisana must be on a level surface.  If its not on a level  
surface, or you tilt it while moving it, too much water will flow to  
the little reservoir under the spout. When that happens it just spits  
instead of fogging.  Tip the water out of the little reservoir and it  
should be fine to go again



David




From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
Date: 18 February 2010 10:48:40 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Medisana Humidifier


That happened to mine Brickey, but it started up again and we don't  
know why!  My husband tipped it upside down a bit and we wiped it  
out with a paper towel and it started up again.  Maybe the surface  
is really really sensitive and needs to be wiped off (gently)  dee


On 17 Feb 2010, at 19:25, brick...@aol.com wrote:

My humidifier stopped making fog, it still spits out liquid but no  
fog. I drained the EIS out and have it soaking in Hyd. Peroxide.  
Any ideas how to re-start the fog?

Brickey





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CS>Fwd: request your help

[Alchemysa]

The problem is that Barwick/Jones newsletters and readouts are  
scaremongering, misleading bull.  Furthermore he writes in that  
miracle cure/snake oil style that will bring the FDA down on the  
whole CS business.


How does that help' the movement'?

David






From: "John E. Stevens" 
Date: 9 February 2010 6:13:07 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Fwd: request your help


Do you ever get any read-outs or newsletters from any CSW machine  
makers that overall help the CSW movement?  I've never seen another  
one on this list.


John




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CS>Heres how to get FDA approval.

[Alchemysa]

Collecting a million anecdotes will not do it. The only way the FDA  
will approve CS is if clinical human trials are conducted.  And as  
I've said here before the only body in the US with the money and the  
duty to conduct a trial is the National Centre for Complimentary and  
Alternative Medicine. (NCCAM) http://nccam.nih.gov/


NCCAM is a part of the US health department. They have a relatively  
huge budget, and IT IS IN THEIR CHARTER TO RESEARCH STUFF LIKE CS


To quote from the NCCAM website ..."The National Center for  
Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) is the Federal  
Government's lead agency for scientific research on the diverse  
medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are NOT  
GENERALLY CONSIDERED PART OF CONVENTIONAL MEDICINE. "


They have funded over 1,200 research projects - but so far nothing on  
CS.


If enough taxpaying US members of this list contacted the NCCAM and  
suggested they research CS (or fund a trial of CS) then something  
might get done.


Of course they could fund a big trial and conclude that CS doesn't  
work but thats a risk I'm happy to live with.


David


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CS>'Kinetic kill experiments'

[Alchemysa]

From: "Mike Monett" 
Date: 3 February 2010 8:38:29 AM
To: "" 
Subject: Re: FW: CS>WHY EIS is less likely to cause Argyria!


  The kinetic  kill  experiments by Steve Quinto  show  the  effect of
  silver ions  on e.coli drops of rapidly below about  1000  parts per
  billion. David has the url on his site, but I don't have  time right
  now to track it down.



Here 'tis

http://tinyurl.com/3qb4v
http://tinyurl.com/47ujf
http://tinyurl.com/3mmq2


David
http://www.colloidalsilver.com.au/Links.html





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CS>Mike Monnett!!

[Alchemysa]

Mike Monnett!!   Wow. Theres a blast from the past.
Welcome back.

David




From: "Mike Monett" 
Date: 23 January 2010 12:21:37 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Silver is a potent nerve cell toxicant


==

From: sol 
Date: 23 January 2010 6:53:28 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>article, "Silver is a potent nerve cell toxicant"



Can anyone  discredit that study, how it was  performed,  and its
conclusions? Here is the link again:



http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/silver-is-
potent-neurotoxicant



I mean  aside  from  saying "it ain't  true"  can  someone really
deconstruct it scientifically?



thanks,
sol



I've read most of the 32 page study and wouldn't try  to discredit
it but  just try to put it into perspective.  How  accurately does
this lab test represent a real life situation? They used DNA cells
floating in a bath of 'pure' silver water' (not blood or plasma).



At 'high  concentrations'  the  silver   was  toxic.  At  very low
concentrations it seemed to protect the cells. (At least thats how
it appeared to me.)



Perhaps I  missed it but I couldn't find any  description  of what
type of  silver it was or how it was prepared or how  the strength
was determined. (Was it silver salt, electrolytic silver etc).


  [...]


I hope  other  listers will read the study and  comment.  It makes
some interesting suggestions about how silver works.



Finally, I'm  not a scientist so I could  be  misunderstanding the
study entirely.



David


  Most of  these studies use silver nitrate (AgNO3) as  the  source of
  silver ions. In this study, page 8 states:

  "or varying  concentrations of AgNO3 in water. As a control  for any
  effect of NO3, we included controls containing NaNO3"

  http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2009/0901149/0901149.pdf

  The use of sodium nitrate (NaNO3) as a control is highly misleading.
  Silver Nitrate   and   Sodium   Nitrate   are   completely different
  substances.

  Sodium Nitrate is a preservative, used in sausages for  example. You
  can eat it without too much harm.

  Silver nitrate  is  highly corrosive and  will  destroy  most living
  things. You  cannot eat it. The lethal dose is only 2  gms.  Here is
  the MSDS sheet:

  
  Material Safety Data Sheet

  Silver Nitrate

  EMERGENCY OVERVIEW

  Appearance: colorless  or  white. Danger!  Strong  oxidizer. Contact
  with other  material  may cause a fire. May  cause  cyanosis (bluish
  discoloration of skin due to deficient oxygenation of the blood).

  May cause  liver and kidney damage. Corrosive. Causes  eye  and skin
  burns. May  cause severe respiratory tract irritation  with possible
  burns. May  cause  severe digestive tract  irritation  with possible
  burns.

  Target Organs: Blood, kidneys, liver.

  Potential Health Effects

  Eye: Causes eye burns. May cause chemical conjunctivitis and corneal
  damage.

  Skin: Causes skin burns. May cause skin rash (in milder  cases), and
  cold and clammy skin with cyanosis or pale color.

  Ingestion: May  cause severe and permanent damage  to  the digestive
  tract. Causes gastrointestinal tract burns. May cause perforation of
  the digestive  tract.  May cause systemic effects.  Lethal  dose for
  humans is 2 grams.

  Inhalation: Causes severe irritation of upper respiratory tract with
  coughing, burns,  breathing  difficulty, and  possible  coma. Causes
  chemical burns  to  the respiratory tract.  Aspiration  may  lead to
  pulmonary edema. May cause systemic effects.

  Chronic: May  cause  methemoglobinemia,  which  is  characterized by
  chocolate-brown colored blood, headache, weakness, dizziness, breath
  shortness, cyanosis  (bluish  skin due to  deficient  oxygenation of
  blood), rapid heart rate, unconsciousness and possible death.

  Effects may  be delayed. Chronic inhalation or  ingestion  may cause
  argyria characterized  by blue-gray discoloration of the  eyes, skin
  and mucous  membrances.  Chronic skin  contact  may  cause permanent
  discoloration of the skin.

  Section 4 - First Aid Measures

  Eyes: Get  medical  aid immediately. Do NOT allow victim  to  rub or
  keep eyes  closed. Extensive irrigation with water  is  required (at
  least 30 minutes).

  Skin: Get  medical  aid  immediately.  Immediately  flush  skin with
  plenty of  soap  and water for at least  15  minutes  while removing
  contaminated clothing and shoes. Wash clothing before reuse. Destroy
  contaminated shoes.

  Ingestion: Do NOT induce vomiting. If victim is conscious and alert,
  give 2-4  cupfuls of milk or water. Never give anything by  mouth to
  an unconscious person. Get medical aid immediately.

  Notes to Physician: Treat symptomatically and supportively.

  Section 313  This  material contains  Nitric  Acid,  Silver(1+) Salt
  (listed as ** undefined **), 100%, (CAS# 7761-88-8) which is subject
  to the  reporting requirements of Sect

CS>Silver is a potent nerve cell toxicant

[Alchemysa]

I've read most of the 32 page study and wouldn't try to discredit it  
but just try to put it into perspective. How accurately does this lab  
test represent a real life situation? They used DNA cells floating in  
a bath of 'pure' silver water' (not blood or plasma). At 'high  
concentrations'  the silver was toxic. At very low concentrations it  
seemed to protect the cells. (At least thats how it appeared to me.)


Perhaps I missed it  but I couldn't find any description of what type  
of silver it was or how it was prepared or how the strength was  
determined. (Was it silver salt, electrolytic silver etc).


The big question I think is ... 'Could a daily mouthful of EIS by a  
pregnant woman ever accumulate enough silver in the fetus to impair  
neuro development?'


The answer probably is  'We are still a long way from knowing ...   
but just to be on the safe side a pregnant women should probably  
abstain from EVERYTHING!!'


I hope other listers will read the study and comment. It makes some  
interesting suggestions about how silver works.


Finally, I'm not a scientist so I could be misunderstanding the study  
entirely.


David





From: sol 
Date: 23 January 2010 6:53:28 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>article, "Silver is a potent nerve cell toxicant"


Can anyone discredit that study, how it was performed, and its  
conclusions? Here is the link again:
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/silver-is- 
potent-neurotoxicant


I mean aside from saying "it ain't true" can someone really  
deconstruct it scientifically?

thanks,
sol



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CS>Silver.. a nerve cell toxicant or cell protector?

[Alchemysa]

It always gets me how these taxpayer funded researchers can find  
potential problems associated with drinking colloidal silver but they  
never seem to research the potential benefits.


Also theres a double standard here. LAB tests proving the germ  
killing properties of colloidal silver are not accepted as proof by  
the likes of the FDA that CS is effective in real life.  Yet this lab  
test will no doubt become gospel that CS is dangerous to humans in  
real life.


I havent read the entire paper (and probably wouldnt entirely  
understand it anyway) but the abstract makes this interesting  
observation concerning low doses of silver...


"However, in differentiating cells, the lower concentration produced  
an entirely different pattern, enhancing cell numbers by suppressing  
ongoing cell death and impairing differentiation in parallel for both  
neurotransmitter phenotypes."


Does this mean that low doses of CS would actually improve  
neurodevelopment?



David







_ 
_

From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 2:18:06 PM
Subject: Re: CS>article, "Silver is a potent nerve cell toxicant"

I don't think there are any particles smaller than ionic silver.  dee

On 21 Jan 2010, at 16:52, Nenah Sylver wrote:


There’s an article called “Silver is a potent nerve cell toxicant”

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/silver-is- 
potent-neurotoxicant/



Any thoughts about this? It sounds like a bunch of crap. Or are they
talking about nanoparticles smaller than ionic silver?

Nenah

Nenah Sylver, PhD
author: The Rife Handbook of Frequency Therapy (2009),
now available in HARDCOVER
& The Holistic Handbook of Sauna Therapy
www.nenahsylver.com



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CS>Colloidal Silver Banned in Europe, Part II

[Alchemysa]

From: "John E. Stevens" 
Date: 18 January 2010 2:20:57 AMTo: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Fwd: Colloidal Silver Banned in Europe, Part II

Hi, Folks:

I'd be interested in your response to the link: Colloidal Silver  
secrets blog below.


John



As has been said recently on this list Steve Barwick/Spencer Jones  
(same guy) is a BS artist trying to scare people into panic-buying  
his generators.
http://colloidalsilversecrets.blogspot.com/2010/01/colloidal-silver- 
banned-in-europe-part.html


He claims that CS has been banned in Europe but his blog doesn't  
actually provide any proof of that at all. Instead his blog is full  
of weasel words and strawman argument designed to confound and worry  
the reader. Heres an example of his style...


"The Australian TGA has now apparently banned all colloidal silver  
products from being sold in Australia if the manufacturer or vendor  
makes health claims."  Now thats a statement that is so strained and  
convoluted that its almost beyond comment.  It's like claiming the  
FDA has banned all beer sales in the US if the brewer makes claims  
that it will help you drive better.
(Barwick/Jones wants you to think that Australia was the first domino  
to fall and that CS has virtually disappeared over here. But the  
truth is that colloidal silver is available in just about every  
health food store in Australia. The only rule is that that sellers  
can't make claims that it can cure diseases. This is EXACTLY the same  
situation as in the US but Barwick/Jones doesn't mention this because  
you would immediately realise that he's trying to snow you. )


Way, way down at the bottom of Barwick/Jones blog he finally reveals  
he is talking crap.  He says "In Part III, you’ll learn about a nifty  
little loophole in the new European law that some EU colloidal silver  
vendors are successfully using, for now, to continue selling  
colloidal silver in spite of the ban."   In other words colloidal  
silver isnt actually banned at all. Colloidal silver sellers can keep  
selling CS as long as they don't claim its a nutritional supplement  
and as long as they don't make up stuff they can't prove.


David


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CS>CS Has Been Banned - No it hasn't.

[Alchemysa]

From: Ode Coyote 
Date: 16 January 2010 12:47:23 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>CS Has Been Banned -  No it hasn't.


  I'm sure Barwicks sales figures far outstrip mine and Trems put  
together



Maybe so but he has no proof for his claim so he shouldn't make it.   
Its not that I care at all who sells the most gens. It's just a  
matter of honesty.


David



.He gots no scruples a tall.
If there's one thing people will buy without discrimination, it's  
their own fears...and Barwick will sure reflect them at you in  
disguise.


Ode



At 06:58 PM 1/14/2010 +1030, you wrote:

Calm down folks. Steve Barwick/Spencer Jones (same guy) is not a
reliable source of news about CS. He writes a lot of scaremongering
rubbish, probably with the aim of boosting sales of his second rate
generators.  Europe hasn't banned the sale of colloidal silver
although thats what Barwick/Jones wants you to believe. They have
just banned anyone from making the claim that CS is a nutritional
supplement. Big deal. A similar thing happened in the US and
Australia years ago when they banned companies from making all sorts
of unsubstantiated claims about CS. Put simply they are just banning
misleading advertising - and thats fair enough.

Barwick/Jones website is full of junk science, and outright BS. He
claims his totally ordinary generator is the 'worlds finest' and is
the 'most popular', 'biggest selling' generator in the world. I'd
like to know how he works that out. I'm sure Ode and Trem don't send
him their sales figures.  Frankly its stomach turning to read some of
the crap barwick/Jones writes. He suggests the recently famous blue
man Paul Karosan might not really have argyria, because he's more of
a blue colour than grey!

David




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CS>CS Has Been Banned - No it hasn't.

[Alchemysa]

Calm down folks. Steve Barwick/Spencer Jones (same guy) is not a  
reliable source of news about CS. He writes a lot of scaremongering  
rubbish, probably with the aim of boosting sales of his second rate  
generators.  Europe hasn't banned the sale of colloidal silver  
although thats what Barwick/Jones wants you to believe. They have  
just banned anyone from making the claim that CS is a nutritional  
supplement. Big deal. A similar thing happened in the US and  
Australia years ago when they banned companies from making all sorts  
of unsubstantiated claims about CS. Put simply they are just banning  
misleading advertising - and thats fair enough.


Barwick/Jones website is full of junk science, and outright BS. He  
claims his totally ordinary generator is the 'worlds finest' and is  
the 'most popular', 'biggest selling' generator in the world. I'd  
like to know how he works that out. I'm sure Ode and Trem don't send  
him their sales figures.  Frankly its stomach turning to read some of  
the crap barwick/Jones writes. He suggests the recently famous blue  
man Paul Karosan might not really have argyria, because he's more of  
a blue colour than grey!


David





From: Annie B Smythe 
Date: 13 January 2010 7:37:47 PM
To: CS List 
Subject: CS>Colloidal Silver Has Been Banned Throughout Europe!


Wow, this is kinda scary!

http://colloidalsilversecrets.blogspot.com/2010/01/colloidal-silver- 
has-been-banned.html







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CS>Re: is RO water good enough for CS?

[Alchemysa]

RO water is good enough if its good quality. The most popular water  
for making colloidal silver here in Australia is a reverse osmosis  
brand called Nobles PUREAU. It's sold as drinking water and its  
available in just about every major supermarket for about $6 - $7 for  
a 10 litre cask. (About 2.5 gall.). It's basically reverse osmosis  
water but they claim to do other things to it to improve the the  
purity. From memory the purity averages at about 1.5 uS, although  
lately they had a few bad batches go through that werent up to  
standard. So Aussies should look for Pureau with a 'Best by' date  
after 30/10/11.


Personally (because I got a distiller cheap) I now distil my own  
water, but if i do buy water I buy demineralised water. I used  
demineralised water for years. I found it gave me a clearer end  
result - better even than my own distilled water. The best quality  
demineralised water over here is 'WT' brand from the laundry products  
dept of larger supermarkets, although most of the home brand demins  
from big supermarkets are good. Demineralised water is usually always  
labelled 'Not for drinking' but thats basically just a legal  
disclaimer because they are not in the beverages business.  The  
important thing to remember about RO and demineralised water is that  
the quality can vary greatly from brand to brand. Some brands are  
excellent whilst others are very poor. Theoretically distilled water  
should consistently be very good although I've never bought any  
distilled water that is as good at the best demineralised water.


'Home' undersink RO filters seem to be a bit of a lottery. They can  
produce very good water but they need to be maintained very well.


A very simple rule is to be very wary of any water that produces any  
form of white cloud soon after you apply the power. Other than for  
emergencies you should ditch it or use it externally or give it to  
the pets.



David




From: sol 
Date: 11 January 2010 8:26:18 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>about pure water


At 05:19 AM 1/10/2010, you wrote:

But is RO water good enough for CS?


I don't think it is, but distilling RO water is supposed to make  
extremely pure distilled water. And I think Ode told me once he  
knew of a couple of people who had to do that to get decent DW  
(correct me if I am wrong).


Since I also drink DW and use it for coffee and tea, and for  
cooking (if I have enough), my still ran nearly daily, at least one  
gallon and often two. If my husband drank DW it would have had to  
produce much more, he drinks double filtered tap water. I do use  
around a gallon to a gallon and a half of CS per week.


When I figured up how much DW we'd need to purchase per week to  
replace what I was distilling at home, it came to about 10 gallons.  
I can't imagine doing that for 6 people and an infant. The 10  
gallons a week here is for me to drink and for making CS for my two  
cats, my husband and myself (and neither of us actually drinks CS  
routinely though we do use it for mouthwash and lots of other uses,  
including, misting eyes and hands and cleaning around the kitchen,  
etc). I also wipe down most bottles and food containers that come  
from the store and go right into the refrigerator. The cats DO  
drink straight CS, and go through quite a lot.


It seems to me that 10 gallons per week is about the maximum  
practical to haul home from the store.

sol




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CS>Does CS work?

[Alchemysa]

"My husband said 'well can they put it on something on a microscope  
and show how it dispels pathogens'."


'They' have already done that hundreds of times...

http://robholladay99.tripod.com/cs1index.htm

Theres a mountain of genuine scientific evidence to prove that silver  
kills germs in lab tests.  No credible researcher disputes that.   
Even 'Quackwatch', the ultimate anti-cs site, does not dispute that  
it works in-vitro (test tubes). Unfortunately no clinical human  
trials have been conducted to prove that it works in real life. There  
are a number of reasons for this including the fact that human trials  
cost millions of dollars.


You'll have to settle for testimonies..,
http://www.csfacts.com/pages/for.html

David









From: Sunwaterclear - Sunny 
Date: 16 December 2009 12:50:10 PM
To: Silver List 
Subject: CS>Fw: Does CS work?





My husband, who is into trying out all kinds of alternatives, just  
asked me... does this stuff work ?  I said it's the same with MMS,  
I did get rid of the infection and he did notice that when he was  
taking it and wearing snake boots all day his feet stopped smelling  
and beyond that we only have other people's personal testimonials.


I've taken CS only by spraying it in my mouth.. for my teeth.  I  
can't say I've used it to deal with some infection or other... I'm  
into taking something and thinking about prevention.


Jim Humble says of MMS that he's used it loads of times and tried  
it out a lot on himself... but he doesn't have the money to  
research it so there's no 'scientific' evidence as such.


My husband said 'well can they put it on something on a microscope  
and show how it dispels pathogens'.


Is there any research on CS or somewhere anyone can point me to  
where scientific type experiments of any sort have been performed  
and shown some kind of result against a control group?


I personally think that human testimonial is great.. but often we  
take a number of things together when we're pursuing the  
alternative route... so it could be difficult to know what's working.


Asking these questions is merely anticipating the kind of questions  
people might well ask when we talk to them of CS.


I had this sense that there are some highly knowledgeable people on  
this list including some who have done their own tests or know  
about those that have been done.. As it's not a FDA approved item,  
I don't expect that kind of research.. we don't have that luxury  
with these kind of remedies...and anyway the FDA ratifies things  
that poison us!


It's like my neighbors father who was in and out of hospital visits  
for diarrhoea and then finally got fed up and went home, remembered  
all his stuff about home remedies, fell out of the allopathic  
trance, went up in his forest and cut some red oak bark.. took it  
in water for four days and got rid of something modernmedicine  
couldn't.  Hardly a scientific test, but I'd surely try it if I had  
something similar..


smiles
sunny

A peek into our world..
World Human Orientation - The blog In depth articles - WHO are we?  
WHY is this happening? Where are we going? WHAT has to happen for  
us to evolve and emerge?








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CS>Re: ac or dc?

[Alchemysa]

Genuine low voltage AC doesn't work at all. (i.e. a low voltage  
50/60hz. AC wall adaptor). There a few low voltage AC adaptors around  
so don't mistakenly try to use one.


It has to be DC (or DC with polarity swapping).

David




From: Richard Goodwin 
Date: 12 December 2009 4:49:46 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>ac or dc?


Which do you think works better for making EIS, DC that you have to  
switch polarity on every minute or so, or AC, assuming everything  
else is equal?


Dick



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CS>spreading the word

[Alchemysa]

 They totally scoff at the idea of CS, as if we are talking about  
voodoo or witchdoctors or something.



It's a common misconception that the use of colloidal silver is based  
on some pagan cult worship of silver. Or that its a homeopathic  
remedy.  Neither of these are true of course. The use of silver had,  
and continues to have, a very substantial scientific and medical  
background. (Just look up colloidal silver in Wikipedia).


So at one end of the story we have silver's proven in-vitro  
antibiotic properties, and at the other end we have a mountain of  
anecdotal evidence that it works in real life. The 'missing link'  
that is required to convince the skeptics is 'evidence based in-vivo  
studies.' (In other words, credible human trials.) Unfortunately  
we'll probably never have those unless someone like Bill Gates gets  
interested, or the NCCAM funds a trial. (As, according to their  
charter, they should. Instead they seem intent on researching rubbish  
that is doomed to failure, further proving the lack of effectiveness  
of alternative medicine.)


Heres a site that has a heap of scientific research about silver.  
http://robholladay99.tripod.com/cs1index.htm


By the way, you can't pay to get a website to the top of a google  
search (other than the obvious paid Google Adwords spots). Those  
sites that you mention rate highly because they have a lot of words,  
they get clicked a lot, and because so many other sites link to them.


David










From: Richard Goodwin 
Date: 3 December 2009 11:59:35 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>spreading the word


One funny thing I have noticed is how difficult it is to convince  
anybody who doesn't already know about CS how amazing it is.


Both of my groan, er, I mean, grown kids have worked at the New  
England Journal of Medicine, and they are "True Believers" in the  
AMA, FDA, and all things traditional western medicine.  And they  
steadfastly refuse to believe in anything else.  These are 30- 
somethings.  At the moment.  They totally scoff at the idea of CS,  
as if we are talking about voodoo or witchdoctors or something.


Same reaction with people at work.  So now I just don't bother  
much.  I hear them coughing and sniffing, taking off sick, talking  
about the flu, getting their flu shots, getting colds, etc., and  
think how nice it is not to have to deal with any of that any  
more.  But even when they are sick, they don't want to hear about CS.


Of course it doesn't help that the powers that are against it have  
websites that they pay to keep at the front of google searches,  
that put down CS and try to scare people away from it.  A friend of  
mine did a google search on it, and the first 3 or 4 items were  
quackwatch, some site from a university, the standard blue man and  
gray people pictures, etc.  It's no wonder people get turned off to  
it.  I looked into quackwatch, and found references to the guy who  
owns it having received awards from the FDA.  No surprises there.   
The university sites were AMA connected.  You have to pay to get  
your website up front on google like that, and I'll bet I know  
exactly who is paying in this case.


Anyhow, interesting phenomenon, the resistance to learning about  
something new like this, or maybe it is just resistance to learning  
about anything that doesn't come from one's own doctor?


Dick



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CS>MS cure - Nancy delise.

[Alchemysa]

Steve.

As I recall, Nancy was posting here and on other lists until not long  
before here death.  I got the impression the MS  had improved  
significantly over the years but was never really cured.  At one  
point she said she was 95% OK. Perhaps it had stated to worsen again,  
hence the hot tub therapy. I'm sure she would have been aware of the  
danger but underestimated it nevertheless. Overconfidence I guess.



David




From: "Norton, Steve" 
Date: 28 November 2009 11:12:56 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>MS cure - Nancy delise.


How terribly sad and unfortunate. I take it that her MS was only in  
remission and had returned after her post in 2002? In her post she  
seemed intelligent, determined and capable. Very sad.

 - Steve

- Original Message -----
From: Alchemysa 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Fri Nov 27 18:12:07 2009
Subject: CS>MS cure - Nancy delise.

Nancy Delise and a female friend (also with MS) drowned in a motel
hot tub (next to the swimming pool) while trying hot water therapy.
The circumstances were so odd that the police assumed it was a
bizarre suicide pact. The families stated that was ridiculous and
insisted on a closer examination.  Police later concluded it was just
a tragic accident.  Apparently heat can incapacitate MS sufferers.
(MS sufferes have confirmed this to me). By the time the two ladies
realised they could not move their muscles it was too late.  So they
simply slipped to the bottom of the tub and drowned. Very sad. Nancy
was a contributor to this and other silver groups.

David



> From: "Del" 
> Date: 28 November 2009 4:11:10 AM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: CS>MS cure
>
>
> Nancy Delise and her friend are dead now, you know.
> He death in a motel hot tub was labeled suicide, but I never
> believed that.
> Some very unfunny business here:
>
> http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/Countryside.Holiday.Inn.
> 2.336750.html
>
> Del



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CS>MS cure - Nancy delise.

[Alchemysa]

Nancy Delise and a female friend (also with MS) drowned in a motel  
hot tub (next to the swimming pool) while trying hot water therapy.  
The circumstances were so odd that the police assumed it was a  
bizarre suicide pact. The families stated that was ridiculous and  
insisted on a closer examination.  Police later concluded it was just  
a tragic accident.  Apparently heat can incapacitate MS sufferers.   
(MS sufferes have confirmed this to me). By the time the two ladies  
realised they could not move their muscles it was too late.  So they  
simply slipped to the bottom of the tub and drowned. Very sad. Nancy  
was a contributor to this and other silver groups.


David




From: "Del" 
Date: 28 November 2009 4:11:10 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>MS cure


Nancy Delise and her friend are dead now, you know.
He death in a motel hot tub was labeled suicide, but I never  
believed that.

Some very unfunny business here:

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/Countryside.Holiday.Inn. 
2.336750.html


Del



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CS>How strong was Argyrol? Very!!!

[Alchemysa]

Argyrol was the original 'mild silver protein' marketed from 1910  
until about the mid 1950's and prescribed by doctors, usually as nose  
drops. Argyrol and similar products were responsible for most of the  
cases of argyria that are now blamed on colloidal silver. (Including  
the famous case of Rosemary Jacobs)


This FDA review reveals just how strong argyrol really was.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1122994/US-Food-and-Drug- 
Administration-3513b1b


Page 32 tells us Argyrol contained 20 to 40 milligrams of silver per  
millilitre! This means it contained more silver in a few drops than  
is found in a whole litre of our typical home brew colloidal silver.  
The full review covers pages 25 to 45.


So if Rosemary Jacobs was consuming about 4 drops of Argyrol a day  
for about 4 years (as her story suggests) this is possibly the  
equivalent of 4 to 8 litres of 'our' colloidal silver every day for 4  
years. But it gets even worse because Argyrol was not ionic silver  
(like our CS), it was chemically made and composed almost entirely of  
silver particles that were thousands of times larger than the ions  
and particles found in todays electrolytically made CS.


David







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CS>tyndall again

[Alchemysa]

When distilling water for colloidal silver do NOT use the charcoal,  
carbon, or coconut 'post filters' that come with most distillers.  
They put impurities into the water and can raise the ppm significantly.


David




From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
Date: 16 November 2009 10:50:49 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>tyndall again


i am still getting a tyndall effect (red line) through my DW  
*before* there is any silver in it.  Can anyone tell me again how  
this could happen.  dee  PS also why my own DW can read 003 after  
double distilling?  thanks all


-



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CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2009 #724

[Alchemysa]

'Not for drinking' is a legal disclaimer forced upon them by lawyers  
because they are not in the drinking water 'business'. It's the same  
here in Australia on demineralised water bottles.  'Not for drinking.  
Suitable for laboratory solutions'. Work that one out!


David







From: "Annie" 
Date: 15 November 2009 7:43:45 AM
To: 
Subject: CS>Question


I live in Europe and I've found two places for distilled water, one  
is at the drug store but it's very expensive, something like 10.00  
for a liter and I've also found it at the gas station but it says  
on the label that it's not sterile and not for drinking. Can  
someone please explain what the difference would be in the two?


Annie



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CS>probiotics (to Larry)

[Alchemysa]

Larry.

I'm no expert but I'd suggest you get a small Ultrasonic room  
humidifier .  They are easier to use than a nebulizer. The Medisana  
is good. It has a spout so you can get up close and take deep  
breathes. But there are plenty of others. Lets of cheapies on ebay.


By the way.. 10 on the TDS would be at least 20 ppm.

David




From: Larry Biggar 
Date: 14 November 2009 4:19:58 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>probiotics


Hi David, I've been using 10 tds CS i made in my Silver Puppy. I  
have breathing problems which only occurs when ive overstressed my  
cardo-pulminary systems. With re occuring bladder infections. With  
my 4 heart attacks and congestial heart failure. So my breathing is  
in great compramize. I've been gargling about 1 oz./day plus spray  
both nostrils and my throat. Trying to find nose sprayer or even a  
nebulizer. Because if what im using is working. What would be a  
logical next step? I appriciate your help!  Larry


From: Alchemysa 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 6:45:37 PM
Subject: CS>probiotics


If CS killed the 'good bacteria' the result would be pretty obvious  
and catastrophic. I certainly haven't noticed any problems in that  
area.
My personal theory is that CS particles and ions are nulified in  
the intestine because they become coated with goo. (i.e. Digestive  
fluids).
Silver needs to be physically in direct contact with a bacteria to  
kill it. That can't happen if the silver is surrounded by an  
'insulating' coating.
Its similar reasoning to why 'mild silver protein' is less  
effective than electolytic CS.  Mild silver protein (like Invive)  
is a silver compound coated with a type of gelatin.


David





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CS>probiotics

[Alchemysa]

If CS killed the 'good bacteria' the result would be pretty obvious  
and catastrophic. I certainly haven't noticed any problems in that area.
My personal theory is that CS particles and ions are nulified in the  
intestine because they become coated with goo. (i.e. Digestive fluids).
Silver needs to be physically in direct contact with a bacteria to  
kill it. That can't happen if the silver is surrounded by an  
'insulating' coating.
Its similar reasoning to why 'mild silver protein' is less effective  
than electolytic CS.  Mild silver protein (like Invive) is a silver  
compound coated with a type of gelatin.


David






From: seth sato 
Date: 11 November 2009 3:38:58 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>probiotics


Does anyone know if C's destroys probiotics and if so what is the  
time one needs between taking C's and any kind of probiotic?


Thanks

Seth






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CS>How to gauge one's CS solution

[Alchemysa]

When you are measuring colloidal silver...

If you are using a COM100 in uS/KCl mode you can take the reading 'as  
is.'   If its in ppm/NaCl mode you should at least double what is  
says on the dial.


If you have a TDS meter then double what it says on the meter. (All  
TDS meters are fixed in ppm/NaCl mode).


These guidelines only apply if you start with pure water in the first  
place. If you dont, then any meter is useless for measuring silver.


Even the best meters are only a rough guide anyway. (But much better  
than nothing.)



David



From: zoe w 
Date: 25 September 2009 3:21:37 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>How to gauge one's CS solution


OK  I also have a TDS-3 meter but could never figure out how to use  
it.   If  my reading is 11.1  on the Com-100   does this mean  my   
ppm  is 22 ?  or is it  still 11.1 ?

Inquiring minds would like to know.
zoe





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CS>How to gauge one's CS solution

[Alchemysa]

I would dispute the need to subtract the initial DW reading.  When  
you make a batch the silver ions will combine with the ionic  
impurities that are already in the DW to form non-conductive  
particles that are not readable by the meter. So, in effect, the  
initial DW reading is automatically taken out of the equation. If  
anything I'd suggest you read the meter then ADD the initial DW  
reading to give yourself a VERY rough idea of the TOTAL ppm. (i.e.  
ions plus colloids). If you are using a TDS meter then you should AT  
LEAST double what it says on the meter . If you want a TOTAL ppm  
measurement my guess is that you should do this about 6 hours after  
making the batch.


But of course a handheld meter is such a poor tool for measuring ppm  
that subtracting the initial ppm is rather pointless anyway. The tool  
is simply not accurate enough to bother with such minor details.  
(Unless of course the water is very impure then you might as well  
just forget about using a meter at all.).


Regards
David




From: Neville Munn 
Date: 25 September 2009 9:06:00 AM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>How to gauge one's CS solution

 The meter is telling you you have silver...if it's only silver you  
put in the water it's only going to be silver the meter is  
reading...after you do the subtraction thing from initial DW  
reading before brewing.





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CS>Mac question - OT

[Alchemysa]

I have a Mac with mail but I dont know what  preview pane you mean.

David



From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
Date: 11 September 2009 3:59:21 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Mac question - OT


Does anyone out there have a Mac?  If so, can someone tell me how  
to turn off the preview pane in Mail please?  A private reply would  
be fine.  dee





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CS>Clinical CS research funded by NCCAM.

[Alchemysa]

The question of whether electrically generated Colloidal Silver works  
in-vivo (in humans) can be settled once and for all if credible  
clinical trials are conducted. The National Centre for Complementary  
and Alternative Medicine is a US Federal Government Agency with a  
charter that includes the provision of funding for such research.  
They have a hefty budget for this.


http://nccam.nih.gov/

If you have any relationship with a school, university, or any other  
institute that could qualify for the first ever clinical in-vivo  
trials of CS then I urge you to look into this. (And what institute  
doesnt want funds?)  There have been no in-vivo clinical trials into  
the use of CS so a study would be ground breaking and high profile -  
two more reasons that should make it attractive to an institution.


The NCCAM is often referrenced as a site that's 'anti' colloidal  
silver so this would perhaps be an ideal test of their bias on this.  
If they refuse to fund the research it would be interesting to read  
their reasoning.


So, how about it.  Has anyone on the list got any contacts with  
institutions that could consider this?


Regards
David

(PS. As an Australian theres unfortunately no way I can seriously  
follow this up myself.)


http://nccam.nih.gov/grants/whatnccamfunds/overviewfunds.htm

"NCCAM only awards funding in response to grant applications sent to  
NIH.
NCCAM, like other NIH institutes and centers, accepts investigator- 
initiated applications that are based on ideas formulated by the  
applicant. Researchers may refer to Types of Grants and Active  
Funding Announcements to find grant opportunities that may be  
appropriate for them.
Scientific review groups at the NIH Center for Scientific Review  
(CSR) or NCCAM Special Emphasis Panels provide peer review by  
assessing the scientific merit of all applications. The funding  
process is competitive. Applications with the best ratings are  
considered for funding.In fiscal year 2008, NCCAM funded 12% of  
applications received. The Funding Strategy explains how NCCAM funds  
applications."



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CS>Invive

[Alchemysa]

The following link compares Silver Well and Invive, but its basically  
applicable to any good quality home-made colloidal silver Vs Invive.

(Theres some mighty huge particles in Invive!)

http://www.colloidalsilver.com.au/Invive.html

David



From: Ode Coyote 
Date: 20 August 2009 7:33:36 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Invive


  Invive is Mild Silver Protein
MSP is said to be about 1/50 as effective as home made as most of  
the silver is covered by protein and the particle sizes are pretty  
large.
You can Google "Chemical Supply" and buy MSP powder by the kilo for  
a reasonable price...just mix with water.
 There is now another product in the catalog called "nano-silver  
powder". which is probably far superior.


The Invive website only survives making ludicrous claims and  
dangerous recommendations *** because it's based in Canadaand I  
don't think it makes any Canadian sales.
"loophole" to avoid the FTC and FDA and whatever Canadian  
legalities as well


*** To bring the level of silver "in the blood stream" up to a  
effective 20 PPM, it takes.


 WHAT

If I were you I'd stay away from that pack of dangerous crooks  
[Invive]


Ode





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CS>Reversing Argyia - Post 3

[Alchemysa]

Congratulations Steve. A well researched and admirable series of posts.

Perhaps one qualification might concern relying too much on the  
'recomended daily values' and so-called 'safe dosages' of anything.
These doses are often based on research that is so scant, simplistic  
and old that its almost irrelevant. And these recommended values  
often err on the super safe side. For example, the 'safe intake' of  
silver as suggested by the likes of the EPA is so far below what 'we'  
know is safe that it has little credibility.


And can we really believe that anyone has accurately determined the  
daily value of selenium? So when you say (to paraphrase) "A bit of  
selenium, but not too much, is beneficial" we are aiming between some  
pretty mobile goal posts.


Anyway, I'm sure you've already recognised this, and I think youve  
done an excellent job.


I hope someone will try your suggested argyria counter-measure and  
report back.


Regards
David

(P.S. I will be reducing my Brazil Nut consumption to 1 a day!)




From: "Norton, Steve" 
Date: 3 July 2009 7:58:43 AM
To: 
Subject: CS>Reversing Argyia -  Post 3  - Vitamin c, MSM and EDTA


So what do you do?


Maybe Heidrun's suggestion is the next best option:

"Regarding EDTA removing silver from the skin, I found this
on http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T305361.html:";

"EDTA chelation will remove the blue / gray tinge from the skin,  
usually

with just a few treatments."


Personally, I would give it a try. Normally if you take Calcium  
Disodium

EDTA orally you only get around a 5% absorption of the EDTA into the
bloodstream. But a paper was published in JANA that showed a 36%
absorption rate if taken as a suppository. See:

Comparison of the Absorption, Brain and Prostate Distribution, and
Elimination of CaNa2 EDTA of Rectal Chelation Suppositories to
Intravenous Administration

(http://www.detoxamin.com/documents/EllithorpeReprint10_2.pdf)


CaNa2 EDTA is easy to buy as a powder and you can make your own
suppository. Look online for instructions. It can be as simple as
putting the powder in a size "0" gelatin capsule. You also might
consider Tetrasodium EDTA. It dissolves over a wider pH range.

 - Steve N





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CS>CS and marijuana cultivation

[Alchemysa]

"Large amount of seed" is not usually desired.


I grant that may be true. Its not my area of expertise.

But more importantly I was making the observation that CS ions can  
actually alter the characteristics of the plant. Its not simply used  
to combat disease, parasites etc.



David





From: "Terry" 
Date: 18 June 2009 9:47:18 AM
To: 
Subject: RE: CS>CS and marijuana cultivation


"Large amount of seed" is not usually desired.

-Original Message-
From: Alchemysa [mailto:da...@alchemysa.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 11:15 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>CS and marijuana cultivation


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)_cultivation

Under the section called Feminized Seeds.

"Spraying selected leaves, branches and, in cases where large amount
of seed desired, whole plants with colloidal silver solution has
become a preferred method since the colloidal silver suppresses
ethylene production in bud sites, stimulating male characteristics"

This leads me to think that when gardeners spray CS on their plants
they may be doing more than just fighting plant diseases.


David





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CS>CS and marijuana cultivation

[Alchemysa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)_cultivation

Under the section called Feminized Seeds.

"Spraying selected leaves, branches and, in cases where large amount  
of seed desired, whole plants with colloidal silver solution has  
become a preferred method since the colloidal silver suppresses  
ethylene production in bud sites, stimulating male characteristics"


This leads me to think that when gardeners spray CS on their plants  
they may be doing more than just fighting plant diseases.



David




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CS>Steam distillers.

[Alchemysa]

If you are distilling water for CS NEVER use the little charcoal post- 
filter satchet that comes with these distillers. They put impurities  
back into the water. (Its the white thing thats sitting on the clear  
plastic receiver jug.)


Also try and distill good rainwater instead of tap water.
And dont boil the distiller dry if you can help it.

David




This looks identical to a unit that is available here in the United  
States at $99.00.  It must be tough to live in Germany.

- Original Message -
From: Golden Aldi
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 6:58 AM
Subject: CS>Steam distillers

I've just ordered a steam distiller, 220V to start making my own  
water. I've read that even after distillation, there are still  
traces of Nitrat 0,10mg/ltr, Chlor ,05mg/ltr, Phosphat 0,02mg/ltr,  
Natrium 0,07mg/ltr and Atrazin (have no idea what that is) 0,02mg/ 
ltr.  I believe they used tap water for distilling, so if I used  
filtered water, that should get most of the elements out before  
distilling, thus giving me a more purer water.

Am I correct in my assumptions?
Aldi
This is the one I bought...
(http://www.ionic-pulser.eu/wasser/dampfdestilliergeraet.html)



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CS>CS brewed too long

[Alchemysa]

 My son has my ppm tester and has moved and doesn't know which box  
it's

> in to retrieve it for me.
>  �



A ppm tester is at best a rough guide, and anyway is useless for  
measuring ppm in CS over about 20mm. So it would be no use in this  
case. You could have 200 ppm but the meter probably would still only  
say about 5 to 20 ppm.


David







On May 29, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Dianne France wrote:

>  Group
>  �
>  My husband set up our silverpuppy to brew a new batch of CS the  
other
> day and I wasn't paying attention until yesterday when I saw the  
green
> light was still on.� Evidently when he was setting it up the  
switch
> got moved to manual.� It brewed two days.� There was a long  
stream
> going down one of the wires.� Is it still safe to use and if so  
how
> much distilled water should I dilute it with?� Brewed about 48  
hrs.�
> My son has my ppm tester and has moved and doesn't know which box  
it's

> in to retrieve it for me.
>  �
>  Dianne




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