Re: An observation...
Seems to me that this is a good argument for using a current regulator circuit. Then, when beginning the CS generation, a large voltage will be applied to get the process going. But, as the water gets more conductive, the voltage cuts back to keep the current constant, and this should keep the particle size small. Now the $10,000 question is What current level is optimum?40mA... 20mA... 5mA? ...Tom Joyce Inouye wrote: > I think you've hit the the KEY to making QUALITY silver--a CONSISTENTLY > LOW voltage. I came across a site that made silver .005-.010 microns > colloids using LOW VOLTAGE. > > The GOLDEN color you observed is often associated with colloidal silver of > this size, and is mentioned in literature to have good germicidal qualities. > > Perhaps you could devise an instrument that keeps the voltage at a low > level, yet makes colloidal silver fairly fast, like the commercial silver > makers. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation...
Joyce Inouye wrote: > > What is your web site for the silver generator? Also, please list parts > and where we can buy them. > > Thank you, > :) Joyce I've had some interest expressed by a few people; (really not that many expressed an interest so far...) Busy times for me right now; give me a few days to draft up the circuit diagram & write up some construction notes; there'll eventually be a new html page, probably called something like, " cspulsed.htm " going on the website & linked from the other pages. I'll post a notice to the silver list when the page is up. By the way, thanks to those who did express an interest; I'll try to find time to get this done fairl soon! > > > > Let me know if anyone's interested; times are busy, but we can make it > > happen if there's an expressed interest. Otherwise, the circuit will sit > > on the 'back burner' for a while longer... > > > > Be Well! > > > > Bruce K. Stenulson > > Applied Technology > > The Alternate Health Approaches Forum > > http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/index.html > > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation...
I think you've hit the the KEY to making QUALITY silver--a CONSISTENTLY LOW voltage. I came across a site that made silver .005-.010 microns colloids using LOW VOLTAGE. The GOLDEN color you observed is often associated with colloidal silver of this size, and is mentioned in literature to have good germicidal qualities. Perhaps you could devise an instrument that keeps the voltage at a low level, yet makes colloidal silver fairly fast, like the commercial silver makers. Regards, :) Joyce On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, George Martin wrote: > Recently I had occasion to produce numerous batches > of CS in a short period of time. Since I had several going at > once I had to pay a bit more attention to the process then normal. > What I noticed and would like to share with the list follows. > > My procedure is pretty much what I term 'list standard'. > I start with 28 oz of distilled water (I use mason jars that I just > happened to have sitting around). This is heated using a coffee > cup warmer to approx 120 F. or so. The electrodes are two 5" > lengths of .999 16 ga wire. Since I can't get Hanna Instruments to > respond to my inquiries I usually process the CS until it turns a > gentle amber color...about an hour after the first indications of CS > production appear. I guess that this is probably in the range of > 10-15 ppm based on list discussions. > > I am an electronics tech by trade and am curious about the > goings on in my little circuit. So I have two digital multi-meters > connected to analyze the process. One is in series with the voltage > source to measure current and the other is connected across the > electrodes to measure voltage. I have run this set up two ways; > with three 9-volt batteries in series to give 27 VDC and with an old > linear power supply I had on my work bench that supplies a fixed > 36 VDC. The process didn't vary considerably when I used the > higher voltage so that is what I usually do. Seems my wife always > has a need for 9 volt batteries... > > At the beginning of the process the readings were on > average 36 VDC at a current of .15 - .40 ma depending on the > quality of the distilled water. Over the space of 20 to 30 minutes > the voltage would drop a volt or so and the current would slowly > increase. When the current reached approx. 3.0 ma the wispy > discharge would become apparent. From this point on the current > would increase at a quicker rate due of course to the increased > conductivity of the CS solution. When the current read 8.0 - 10.0 ma > I noticed something different occur. In addition to the CS 'floating' > around in the vicinity of the electrodes there was also a rather thick > 'stream' of CS that was sinking to the bottom of the container. > This was in spite of the convection currents caused by the heating > device. The 'stream' was eventually dispersed by the convection > as it sank lower but this made me curious. > > I then ran a batch using the same setup as above with > preheated water but no active heating device. This was to hopefully > minimize the convection currents. I also let the process continue > for about 2 hours. What I noticed was that the 'stream' of CS that > sank seemed to pool in the bottom of the jar. There was a distinctly > darker appearance to this and it was about 1/4" or so thick. After > I terminated the process I let it set overnight in a dark cabinet and > observed it the next day and noticed no change. I then gave it a stir > and mixed everything up. I let it sit for an additional three days and > didn't notice any settling with the exception of some of the sludge > that had dropped off of the electrode during the proccessing. It > looked like a regular (darker than usual due to the extra time > cooking) jar of CS. > > This got me to thinking... I know that CS is produced at all > times during the process. That is why the conductivity of the > water slowly changes. I also had observed that at certain current > levels different effects were seen. > > Next I modified my little circuit by adding some variable resistance. > > I then started another batch using essentially the same setup as > before only this time the voltage was lowered to 9 VDC. No > particular reason why I chose that value but it seemed appropriate > since the standard is three 9-volt batteries... > > The initial current read .14 ma. (I think that this may be due > to the failure of my particular meter to accurately indicate very low > current values). and very slowly began to climb. I won't try to make > a table of readings or anything but suffice to say that nothing really > note worthy was happening for several hours with the exception > of the currently slowly increasing and the negative electrode > darkening. > > After five hours I observed a very faint tint to the water and > a disti
Re: An observation...
On 14 Jul 98 at 19:14, Peter wrote: > I saw a clever use of a 5v regulator 7805 to limit current to 20mA > in a cs circuit. ... I see no reason why anyone couldn't use a 1k > resistor in exactly the same manner to limit circuit current to > 5mA. Exactly, Pete. This sort of current limiter is a standard application of voltage regulator chips. You'll find a circuit for it in just about every data book listing. We all worry about voltage, but the real actor in this process is the flow of current. We will need to do some pretty detailed studies of the behavior of the system in terms of particle size and production rates vs. electrode geometries and current density. Then we'll know what kind of circuit or setup will work the best. Even if we end up re-inventing the wheel and discover that the "best" arrangement is already the most popular, the whole process will be out in the open and documented on the web for everyone to see. That will be a good thing. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation...
Bill and intrepid colloiders, I saw a clever use of a 5v regulator 7805 to limit current to 20mA in a cs circuit.Basically,it had input connected to the +ve(36v?),and the output through a 250 ohm resistor to the gnd terminal.This terminal then connected to the silver electrode. So,the 5v regulator was limiting the cs generating circuit-a series limiter if you like. I see no reason why anyone couldn't use a 1k resistor in exactly the same manner to limit circuit current to 5mA.Info courtesy Frank Matzka. petemc -Original Message- From: Bill Kingsbury To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, 14 July 1998 9:22 Subject: Re: An observation... > >Chuck, > >Thanks for clarifying the purposes of the bulb. The basic >question, however, is still looking for an answer: > >>> Does anyone know how to design a 5 mA current regulator ? >>> (Any references or ideas appreciated.) > >As Mike wrote: > >>> ...it makes sense to try current limiting at something below >>> that at which the descending cloud of darker particles is seen. >>> That's what I would try. >>> >>> I've long thought that current limiting schemes of various sort >>> would emerge as the best strategy once we start to really study >>> the process. > >Any clues ? > >--Bill > > >At 11:21 AM 7-13-98 -0700, Chuck wrote: >> >>This is Marsha's husband replying. My name is Chuck Hallett and my >>profession is Electrical Engineering. I am writing to hopefully describe >>the purpose of the light bulb in the silver generator circuit. >> >>The primary purpose of the bulb is to limit current in the event the >>electrodes touch each other (short circuit). >> >>When the wires touch, or your alligator clips touch, the current in the >>batteries and the wires is limited only by the internal resistance of the >>batteries and the connecting wires. Electrical Current generates heat. >>Lots of current generates lots of heat. Try this, take a single >nine volt >>battery (a used but not totally dead one) and connect a spare >alligator clip >>lead to each terminal. You should notice the wire getting anything from >>warm to hot enough to melt the insulation. >> >>The bulb limits the current to 40 milliamps which is a reasonable >amount of >>current for the battery circuit, and far below what the colloidal silver >>process will use. >> >>If the leads short together, at best, your batteries ($4.95 retail each) >>will quickly discharge and you'll be out buying new ones. At worst >the heat >>generated could cause the wires to melt, and at an extreme, cause a fire. >> >>Why a 28 volt 40 milliamp lamp? Answer: Economies of supply. >> >>28 volts because we don't want the bult to burn out if we short the wires >>together. When this happens all you've done is closed the switch on >what is >>now the equivalent of a flashlight. If a smaller voltage bulb >were used, >>it would glow very brightly for a short period of time and burn >out. Then >>it would act like a blown fuse, i.e. no silver generation until replaced >>with a new bulb. >> >>40 milliamps because it is a reasonable limiting value for the >circuit and >>more importantly it is a commonly available bulb (at Radio Shack anyway). >>Just like the light bulbs you put in your lamps, these small lamps >come in >>standard sizes. You can get different sizes which would work, but >they are >>harder to get and much more expensive. >> >>Lastly the bulb serves as a battery condition indicator. >> >>The bulb serves no purpose in the silver generation process, it is only >>there for the reasons stated, and you can make a perfectly functioning >>generator without the bulb, by connecting the silver electrodes >directly to >>the batteries. You just run the risk of running your batteries down >>quickly. If you are worried about a fire, either make sure nothing >>combustible is near the batteries & wire, or don't do it. >> >>I hope this sheds some light (pun intended) on the situation. Direct all >>flames to me at w7...@usa.net > >>-Original Message- >>From: Bill Kingsbury >>To: silver-list@eskimo.com >>Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 9:27 AM >>Subject: Re: An observation... >> >> >>> >>>I read that the 40 mA bulb was used to limit the current to >>>40 mA maximum -- and lower currents would be desirable, (if >>>smaller bulbs were available) to minimize colloidal particle size. >>> >>>George's current is no where near
Re: An observation...
Hi Chuck! Thanks for contributing. And thank you so much for sharing Marsha with us! On 13 Jul 98 at 11:21, you wrote: > The primary purpose of the bulb is to limit current in the event the > electrodes touch each other (short circuit). ... > The bulb serves no purpose in the silver generation process, it is > only there for the reasons stated, and you can make a perfectly > functioning generator without the bulb, by connecting the silver > electrodes directly to the batteries. In a few situations the bulb can influence the process. Specifically, for those who use salt or baking soda electrolyte to speed things up, or running the no-salt process a really long time trying to make high ppm. Enough current flows that the bulb begins to glow dimly. There is enough voltage drop across the bulb for the electrode voltage to drop considerably, towards 15 volts in my old setup as an example. We're talking currents about 20ma, which is pretty darn high. So it can serve as a really crude process current limiter for some setups. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation...
Chuck, Thanks for clarifying the purposes of the bulb. The basic question, however, is still looking for an answer: >> Does anyone know how to design a 5 mA current regulator ? >> (Any references or ideas appreciated.) As Mike wrote: >> ...it makes sense to try current limiting at something below >> that at which the descending cloud of darker particles is seen. >> That's what I would try. >> >> I've long thought that current limiting schemes of various sort >> would emerge as the best strategy once we start to really study >> the process. Any clues ? --Bill At 11:21 AM 7-13-98 -0700, Chuck wrote: > >This is Marsha's husband replying. My name is Chuck Hallett and my >profession is Electrical Engineering. I am writing to hopefully describe >the purpose of the light bulb in the silver generator circuit. > >The primary purpose of the bulb is to limit current in the event the >electrodes touch each other (short circuit). > >When the wires touch, or your alligator clips touch, the current in the >batteries and the wires is limited only by the internal resistance of the >batteries and the connecting wires. Electrical Current generates heat. >Lots of current generates lots of heat. Try this, take a single nine volt >battery (a used but not totally dead one) and connect a spare alligator clip >lead to each terminal. You should notice the wire getting anything from >warm to hot enough to melt the insulation. > >The bulb limits the current to 40 milliamps which is a reasonable amount of >current for the battery circuit, and far below what the colloidal silver >process will use. > >If the leads short together, at best, your batteries ($4.95 retail each) >will quickly discharge and you'll be out buying new ones. At worst the heat >generated could cause the wires to melt, and at an extreme, cause a fire. > >Why a 28 volt 40 milliamp lamp? Answer: Economies of supply. > >28 volts because we don't want the bult to burn out if we short the wires >together. When this happens all you've done is closed the switch on what is >now the equivalent of a flashlight. If a smaller voltage bulb were used, >it would glow very brightly for a short period of time and burn out. Then >it would act like a blown fuse, i.e. no silver generation until replaced >with a new bulb. > >40 milliamps because it is a reasonable limiting value for the circuit and >more importantly it is a commonly available bulb (at Radio Shack anyway). >Just like the light bulbs you put in your lamps, these small lamps come in >standard sizes. You can get different sizes which would work, but they are >harder to get and much more expensive. > >Lastly the bulb serves as a battery condition indicator. > >The bulb serves no purpose in the silver generation process, it is only >there for the reasons stated, and you can make a perfectly functioning >generator without the bulb, by connecting the silver electrodes directly to >the batteries. You just run the risk of running your batteries down >quickly. If you are worried about a fire, either make sure nothing >combustible is near the batteries & wire, or don't do it. > >I hope this sheds some light (pun intended) on the situation. Direct all >flames to me at w7...@usa.net >-Original Message- >From: Bill Kingsbury >To: silver-list@eskimo.com >Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 9:27 AM >Subject: Re: An observation... > > >> >>I read that the 40 mA bulb was used to limit the current to >>40 mA maximum -- and lower currents would be desirable, (if >>smaller bulbs were available) to minimize colloidal particle size. >> >>George's current is no where near 40 mA, and the results seem >>to be compromised or questionable, already (at 36 vdc). >> >>Does anyone know how to design a 5 mA current regulator ? >>(Any references or ideas appreciated.) >> >>Or, could one use 6 vdc, and keep a batch running 24 hours a day >>(in a dark place) ? >> >>--Bill >> >> >> >>At 10:10 AM 7-13-98 -5, Mike D. wrote: >>> >>>On 13 Jul 98 at 22:15, George Martin wrote: >>> >>>> When the current read 8.0 - 10.0 ma >>>> I noticed something different occur. In addition to the CS >>>> 'floating' around in the vicinity of the electrodes there was >>>> also a rather thick 'stream' of CS that was sinking to the >>>> bottom of the container. >>> >>>Hello George, >>> >>>Excellent set of observations. Your setup is very similar to mine. >>>I see the same effect at about the same current. >>> >>
Re: An observation...
This is Marsha's husband replying. My name is Chuck Hallett and my profession is Electrical Engineering. I am writing to hopefully describe the purpose of the light bulb in the silver generator circuit. The primary purpose of the bulb is to limit current in the event the electrodes touch each other (short circuit). When the wires touch, or your alligator clips touch, the current in the batteries and the wires is limited only by the internal resistance of the batteries and the connecting wires. Electrical Current generates heat. Lots of current generates lots of heat. Try this, take a single nine volt battery (a used but not totally dead one) and connect a spare alligator clip lead to each terminal. You should notice the wire getting anything from warm to hot enough to melt the insulation. The bulb limits the current to 40 milliamps which is a reasonable amount of current for the battery circuit, and far below what the colloidal silver process will use. If the leads short together, at best, your batteries ($4.95 retail each) will quickly discharge and you'll be out buying new ones. At worst the heat generated could cause the wires to melt, and at an extreme, cause a fire. Why a 28 volt 40 milliamp lamp? Answer: Economies of supply. 28 volts because we don't want the bult to burn out if we short the wires together. When this happens all you've done is closed the switch on what is now the equivalent of a flashlight. If a smaller voltage bulb were used, it would glow very brightly for a short period of time and burn out. Then it would act like a blown fuse, i.e. no silver generation until replaced with a new bulb. 40 milliamps because it is a reasonable limiting value for the circuit and more importantly it is a commonly available bulb (at Radio Shack anyway). Just like the light bulbs you put in your lamps, these small lamps come in standard sizes. You can get different sizes which would work, but they are harder to get and much more expensive. Lastly the bulb serves as a battery condition indicator. The bulb serves no purpose in the silver generation process, it is only there for the reasons stated, and you can make a perfectly functioning generator without the bulb, by connecting the silver electrodes directly to the batteries. You just run the risk of running your batteries down quickly. If you are worried about a fire, either make sure nothing combustible is near the batteries & wire, or don't do it. I hope this sheds some light (pun intended) on the situation. Direct all flames to me at w7...@usa.net -Original Message- From: Bill Kingsbury To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 9:27 AM Subject: Re: An observation... > >I read that the 40 mA bulb was used to limit the current to >40 mA maximum -- and lower currents would be desirable, (if >smaller bulbs were available) to minimize colloidal particle size. > >George's current is no where near 40 mA, and the results seem >to be compromised or questionable, already (at 36 vdc). > >Does anyone know how to design a 5 mA current regulator ? >(Any references or ideas appreciated.) > >Or, could one use 6 vdc, and keep a batch running 24 hours a day >(in a dark place) ? > >--Bill > > > >At 10:10 AM 7-13-98 -5, Mike D. wrote: >> >>On 13 Jul 98 at 22:15, George Martin wrote: >> >>> When the current read 8.0 - 10.0 ma >>> I noticed something different occur. In addition to the CS >>> 'floating' around in the vicinity of the electrodes there was >>> also a rather thick 'stream' of CS that was sinking to the >>> bottom of the container. >> >>Hello George, >> >>Excellent set of observations. Your setup is very similar to mine. >>I see the same effect at about the same current. >> >>I wonder if those are larger particles. A long time ago Rose used a >>microscope at work to look at some CS I made that was run for a long >>time (different apparatus and recipe than I'm using now). She saw >>much larger particles mixed with the almost invisible smaller ones. >> >>Above a certain current, some people have talked about "burning" the >>silver particles. I doubt that's a proper description, but it conveys >>the notion that the particles made are different. >> >>So it makes sense to try current limiting at something below that at >>which the descending cloud of darker particles is seen. That's what I >>would try. >> >>I've long thought that current limiting schemes of various sort would >>emerge as the best strategy once we start to really study the >>process. I've also wondered if there is a calculable property that >>would let you predict that threshold level, such as current
Re: An observation...
George Martin wrote: > > Recently I had occasion to produce numerous batches > of CS in a short period of time. Since I had several going at > once I had to pay a bit more attention to the process then normal. > What I noticed and would like to share with the list follows. > Regards, > George Martin > George, I read with interestyour email. I also have worked with less than the 28-36 volts commonly recommended, and commonly run at 15 volts with no current limiting, so thatr I can monitor the increasing current to determine the cutoff. I also use a pulsed DC, rather than a constat current. My theory is that by disrupting the current flow frequently (20KHz) that the tendancy for silver ions to be produced in larger'clumps' is less likely. Since I don't have access to a microscope to verify this, and financial resources need to be directed elswhere for now, this is still in the unproven "theory" stage. I use 8mA at 15 volts (meter averaged reading) as my cutoff, in hot distilled water, using 1/4 of a previous batch as a 'starter'. (Cuyrrent is directly related to electrode geometry, and is therefore relative to my setup: 3-1/4" wetted length, 14ga, 1/2" apart in an 8 oz container. I don't have occasion to use more than ~6 ounces per week to 10 days, so I don't make larger batches, preferring instead to make a new batch as I get down to the 1/4 level - using it to "start" my next batch. Even at the 120mW power level (8mA at 15 volts) I am just below where the product produced may begin to get a bit "cloudy" - seems that up to that current level, the resulting product is a very clear, deep golden yellow. At above 10 mA, however, a slight silvery hazyness begins to be detectable. Since the TDS1 reads 20PPM consistantly when the generating process is stopped at the 8mA reading at 15 volts, I have found it unnecessary to run beyond this point. While the silver "sludge" builds up on the negatively charged electrode (cathode), if the distilled water tests 000 or 001 on the TDS1 before starting, no precipitation is observed. Producing a pulsed DC CS generator supply is quite simple; a basic 555 timer astable circuit will produce more power than needed. Parts can be less than $25.00, including either a battery holder, or an AC plug in power supply; all available at Radio Shack. The 555 timer chip will tolerate up to 18 volts, which was a guideline in my early experimenting. If there's enough interest, I'll post a circuit diagram on my website for a 12 to 18 volt powered pulsed DC CS generator. If there's enough interest, I'll produce a PC board, parts list, and instructions for around $12.00. With enough interest, a full kit could be made available fairly reasonably. Generating your own quality CS doesn't have to be expensive! Let me know if anyone's interested; times are busy, but we can make it happen if there's an expressed interest. Otherwise, the circuit will sit on the 'back burner' for a while longer... Be Well! Bruce K. Stenulson Applied Technology The Alternate Health Approaches Forum http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/index.html -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation...
I read that the 40 mA bulb was used to limit the current to 40 mA maximum -- and lower currents would be desirable, (if smaller bulbs were available) to minimize colloidal particle size. George's current is no where near 40 mA, and the results seem to be compromised or questionable, already (at 36 vdc). Does anyone know how to design a 5 mA current regulator ? (Any references or ideas appreciated.) Or, could one use 6 vdc, and keep a batch running 24 hours a day (in a dark place) ? --Bill At 10:10 AM 7-13-98 -5, Mike D. wrote: > >On 13 Jul 98 at 22:15, George Martin wrote: > >> When the current read 8.0 - 10.0 ma >> I noticed something different occur. In addition to the CS >> 'floating' around in the vicinity of the electrodes there was >> also a rather thick 'stream' of CS that was sinking to the >> bottom of the container. > >Hello George, > >Excellent set of observations. Your setup is very similar to mine. >I see the same effect at about the same current. > >I wonder if those are larger particles. A long time ago Rose used a >microscope at work to look at some CS I made that was run for a long >time (different apparatus and recipe than I'm using now). She saw >much larger particles mixed with the almost invisible smaller ones. > >Above a certain current, some people have talked about "burning" the >silver particles. I doubt that's a proper description, but it conveys >the notion that the particles made are different. > >So it makes sense to try current limiting at something below that at >which the descending cloud of darker particles is seen. That's what I >would try. > >I've long thought that current limiting schemes of various sort would >emerge as the best strategy once we start to really study the >process. I've also wondered if there is a calculable property that >would let you predict that threshold level, such as current density >(current flow vs. surface area of electrodes). You're welcome to try >the experiments. > >Be well, > >Mike D. > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation...
On 13 Jul 98 at 22:15, George Martin wrote: > When the current read 8.0 - 10.0 > ma I noticed something different occur. In addition to the CS > 'floating' around in the vicinity of the electrodes there was also a > rather thick 'stream' of CS that was sinking to the bottom of the > container. Hello George, Excellent set of observations. Your setup is very similar to mine. I see the same effect at about the same current. I wonder if those are larger particles. A long time ago Rose used a microscope at work to look at some CS I made that was run for a long time (different apparatus and recipe than I'm using now). She saw much larger particles mixed with the almost invisible smaller ones. Above a certain current, some people have talked about "burning" the silver particles. I doubt that's a proper description, but it conveys the notion that the particles made are different. So it makes sense to try current limiting at something below that at which the descending cloud of darker particles is seen. That's what I would try. I've long thought that current limiting schemes of various sort would emerge as the best strategy once we start to really study the process. I've also wondered if there is a calculable property that would let you predict that threshold level, such as current density (current flow vs. surface area of electrodes). You're welcome to try the experiments. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation/diagram...
The particle size is most important--from what I've read, it should be about 0.005 to 0.010 microns?? What is the silver size of your generator? > > -Original Message- > From: Bruce K. Stenulson > To: George Martin ; silver-list@eskimo.com > > Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 11:03 PM > Subject: Re: An observation... > > > >George Martin wrote: > >> > >> Recently I had occasion to produce numerous batches > >> of CS in a short period of time. Since I had several going at > >> once I had to pay a bit more attention to the process then normal. > >> What I noticed and would like to share with the list follows. > > > >> Regards, > >> George Martin > >> > > > >George, I read with interestyour email. I also have worked with less > >than the 28-36 volts commonly recommended, and commonly run at 15 volts > >with no current limiting, so thatr I can monitor the increasing current > >to determine the cutoff. > > > >I also use a pulsed DC, rather than a constat current. My theory is that > >by disrupting the current flow frequently (20KHz) that the tendancy for > >silver ions to be produced in larger'clumps' is less likely. Since I > >don't have access to a microscope to verify this, and financial > >resources need to be directed elswhere for now, this is still in the > >unproven "theory" stage. > > > >I use 8mA at 15 volts (meter averaged reading) as my cutoff, in hot > >distilled water, using 1/4 of a previous batch as a 'starter'. (Cuyrrent > >is directly related to electrode geometry, and is therefore relative to > >my setup: 3-1/4" wetted length, 14ga, 1/2" apart in an 8 oz container. I > >don't have occasion to use more than ~6 ounces per week to 10 days, so I > >don't make larger batches, preferring instead to make a new batch as I > >get down to the 1/4 level - using it to "start" my next batch. > > > >Even at the 120mW power level (8mA at 15 volts) I am just below where > >the product produced may begin to get a bit "cloudy" - seems that up to > >that current level, the resulting product is a very clear, deep golden > >yellow. At above 10 mA, however, a slight silvery hazyness begins to be > >detectable. > > > >Since the TDS1 reads 20PPM consistantly when the generating process is > >stopped at the 8mA reading at 15 volts, I have found it unnecessary to > >run beyond this point. > > > >While the silver "sludge" builds up on the negatively charged electrode > >(cathode), if the distilled water tests 000 or 001 on the TDS1 before > >starting, no precipitation is observed. > > > >Producing a pulsed DC CS generator supply is quite simple; a basic 555 > >timer astable circuit will produce more power than needed. Parts can be > >less than $25.00, including either a battery holder, or an AC plug in > >power supply; all available at Radio Shack. The 555 timer chip will > >tolerate up to 18 volts, which was a guideline in my early > >experimenting. > > > >If there's enough interest, I'll post a circuit diagram on my website > >for a 12 to 18 volt powered pulsed DC CS generator. If there's enough > >interest, I'll produce a PC board, parts list, and instructions for > >around $12.00. With enough interest, a full kit could be made available > >fairly reasonably. Generating your own quality CS doesn't have to be > >expensive! > > > >Let me know if anyone's interested; times are busy, but we can make it > >happen if there's an expressed interest. Otherwise, the circuit will sit > >on the 'back burner' for a while longer... > > > >Be Well! > > > >Bruce K. Stenulson > >Applied Technology > >The Alternate Health Approaches Forum > >http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/index.html > > > > > >-- > >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. > > > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > > > > > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > List maintainer: Mike Devour > > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation/diagram...
Yes Bruce, I'm interested, too. Please post a circuit diagram for your pulsed dc generator. --Bill At 10:26 AM 7-14-98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Bruce, > >Please post the circuit diagram for your pulsed dc generator. I'm >interested. > >Be well, >- >Christian von Wechmar >Stellenbosch, South Africa >- > >-Original Message- >From: Bruce K. Stenulson >To: George Martin ; silver-list@eskimo.com > >Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 11:03 PM >Subject: Re: An observation... > >(snip) >>Producing a pulsed DC CS generator supply is quite simple; a basic 555 >>timer astable circuit will produce more power than needed. Parts can be >>less than $25.00, including either a battery holder, or an AC plug in >>power supply; all available at Radio Shack. The 555 timer chip will >>tolerate up to 18 volts, which was a guideline in my early >>experimenting. >> >>If there's enough interest, I'll post a circuit diagram on my website >>for a 12 to 18 volt powered pulsed DC CS generator. If there's enough >>interest, I'll produce a PC board, parts list, and instructions for >>around $12.00. With enough interest, a full kit could be made available >>fairly reasonably. Generating your own quality CS doesn't have to be >>expensive! >> >>Let me know if anyone's interested; times are busy, but we can make it >>happen if there's an expressed interest. Otherwise, the circuit will sit >>on the 'back burner' for a while longer... >> >>Be Well! >> >>Bruce K. Stenulson >>Applied Technology >>The Alternate Health Approaches Forum >>http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/index.html >> > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: An observation/diagram...
Hi Bruce, Please post the circuit diagram for your pulsed dc generator. I'm interested. Be well, - Christian von Wechmar Stellenbosch, South Africa - -Original Message- From: Bruce K. Stenulson To: George Martin ; silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 11:03 PM Subject: Re: An observation... >George Martin wrote: >> >> Recently I had occasion to produce numerous batches >> of CS in a short period of time. Since I had several going at >> once I had to pay a bit more attention to the process then normal. >> What I noticed and would like to share with the list follows. > >> Regards, >> George Martin >> > >George, I read with interestyour email. I also have worked with less >than the 28-36 volts commonly recommended, and commonly run at 15 volts >with no current limiting, so thatr I can monitor the increasing current >to determine the cutoff. > >I also use a pulsed DC, rather than a constat current. My theory is that >by disrupting the current flow frequently (20KHz) that the tendancy for >silver ions to be produced in larger'clumps' is less likely. Since I >don't have access to a microscope to verify this, and financial >resources need to be directed elswhere for now, this is still in the >unproven "theory" stage. > >I use 8mA at 15 volts (meter averaged reading) as my cutoff, in hot >distilled water, using 1/4 of a previous batch as a 'starter'. (Cuyrrent >is directly related to electrode geometry, and is therefore relative to >my setup: 3-1/4" wetted length, 14ga, 1/2" apart in an 8 oz container. I >don't have occasion to use more than ~6 ounces per week to 10 days, so I >don't make larger batches, preferring instead to make a new batch as I >get down to the 1/4 level - using it to "start" my next batch. > >Even at the 120mW power level (8mA at 15 volts) I am just below where >the product produced may begin to get a bit "cloudy" - seems that up to >that current level, the resulting product is a very clear, deep golden >yellow. At above 10 mA, however, a slight silvery hazyness begins to be >detectable. > >Since the TDS1 reads 20PPM consistantly when the generating process is >stopped at the 8mA reading at 15 volts, I have found it unnecessary to >run beyond this point. > >While the silver "sludge" builds up on the negatively charged electrode >(cathode), if the distilled water tests 000 or 001 on the TDS1 before >starting, no precipitation is observed. > >Producing a pulsed DC CS generator supply is quite simple; a basic 555 >timer astable circuit will produce more power than needed. Parts can be >less than $25.00, including either a battery holder, or an AC plug in >power supply; all available at Radio Shack. The 555 timer chip will >tolerate up to 18 volts, which was a guideline in my early >experimenting. > >If there's enough interest, I'll post a circuit diagram on my website >for a 12 to 18 volt powered pulsed DC CS generator. If there's enough >interest, I'll produce a PC board, parts list, and instructions for >around $12.00. With enough interest, a full kit could be made available >fairly reasonably. Generating your own quality CS doesn't have to be >expensive! > >Let me know if anyone's interested; times are busy, but we can make it >happen if there's an expressed interest. Otherwise, the circuit will sit >on the 'back burner' for a while longer... > >Be Well! > >Bruce K. Stenulson >Applied Technology >The Alternate Health Approaches Forum >http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/index.html > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
