Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
I wrote: > >Now that we've hashed out the two competing worldviews of the Co-op and > >"Dr. Jon", can we end or move this thread to the Off Topic List, > >please? Chuck replies: > As you wish, Mike, but the relevance to the silver list is that aka Dr > Jon expressed a point about CS on a newsletter and exceptions were > taken on this one. I would think it would be hashed here to a > conclusion (or not) logically. Still your call... Good point, Chuck, but... And, later: > This topic has changed enough to move it to the OT list. That was my sense, too. Clearly "Dr. Jon" has his loyal customers and his detractors. Most seem to agree that he's not exactly as he presents himself, but differ on how important that is. Ultimately, *THAT* issue is won't be resolved here. The CS bashing by one of "Dr. Jon's" consultants was worth reporting, so that others could respond, as were any replies received from those responses. But that part of the topic seemed to be exhausted in about 3 posts! So, there it is. Make note that my powers may be extensive, but are not unlimited, and you all *DO* have considerable influence on how the list is to be used. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
On Sun, 1 Sep 2002 00:16:18 +1200, "Ivan Anderson" wrote: >So Chuck, >You present us with a message copied from another site by some chap we >don't know. How is this any different from the stuff you take >exception to? You don't know me either Ivan, how far does this line of reasoning go? There it is. Believe or not believe, or reserve belief, it's your world view. >One fact would seem to be consistent however, that the person >purporting to be Dr. Jon Brooks Oncologist, is someone else and is not >a Dr. I agree. I don't think he's a Dr either (though he may play one on TV). Neither do I think he's a fraud nor a huckster. Nor do I believe cats type newsletters. I AM glad to hear that these terms are not part of the language of character assassination as pointed out recently. I will thusly reserve their use for other assignations. Anonymity on line is not a bad idea, nor illegal. It's quite common, really. >Armed with this knowledge, one can make an informed decision on >whether to have a commercial relationship with him or whether to trust >information coming from him. True, I agree. As far as trusting info obtained on the 'net, keep the salt shaker handy, even on THIS list. (Did I REALLY say "salt shaker")? > >I have had unfortunate personal dealings with him, but the reason that >I don't use the Health Co-op is because I can buy better elsewhere. >Ivan. I know about your feelings, Ivan. BTW, some very interesting products have been added lately (I'm a satisfied customer), but I digress... My objection holds to "character assassination" when the subject cannot input to the slur. It is a reprehensible trait, and should not go unchallenged. This topic has changed enough to move it to the OT list. Regards, Chuck We are all God's children--by a previous marriage. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
As you wish, Mike, but the relevance to the silver list is that aka Dr Jon expressed a point about CS on a newsletter and exceptions were taken on this one. I would think it would be hashed here to a conclusion (or not) logically. Still your call... Chuck We all have faults, and mine is being wicked On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:51:41 +, "M. G. Devour" wrote: >Now that we've hashed out the two competing worldviews of the Co-op and >"Dr. Jon", can we end or move this thread to the Off Topic List, >please? > >Follow-ups set appropriately. > >Be well, > >Mike D. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
RE: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
Now that we've hashed out the two competing worldviews of the Co-op and "Dr. Jon", can we end or move this thread to the Off Topic List, please? Follow-ups set appropriately. Be well, Mike D. The silver-off-topic-list is a moderated forum for silver-list members who want to discuss topics not appropriate on the main list. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com Web archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
RE: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
So Chuck, You present us with a message copied from another site by some chap we don't know. How is this any different from the stuff you take exception to? One fact would seem to be consistent however, that the person purporting to be Dr. Jon Brooks Oncologist, is someone else and is not a Dr. Armed with this knowledge, one can make an informed decision on whether to have a commercial relationship with him or whether to trust information coming from him. I have had unfortunate personal dealings with him, but the reason that I don't use the Health Co-op is because I can buy better elsewhere. Ivan. > -Original Message- > From: cking...@nycap.rr.com [mailto:cking...@nycap.rr.com] > Sent: Saturday, 31 August 2002 9:53 p.m. > To: silver-list@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP > > > On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:32:03 -0400, "Catherine Creel" > > wrote: > > > Take a look at any of the sites where current and > previously licensed > >physicians are listed. You'll never find him. > > > > I wouldn't call what was done on Tracy's list character > assassination. > >There was a tremendous amount of damning evidence, including > >articles from a newspaper in Florida, and mention of the very same > >cats "Dr. Jon" talks about now - except then, his name was Stewart. > > > > That's the last I'm saying on the topic. > > > >Catherine > > > > Part of a post in our own archives: > > Chuck > > Hearsay: What small children do when you mutter a dirty word. > > > *** > This is a post from another list by Darrell Sandlien, > concerning the "Dr. > Jon" scandal. > > "I have followed the well documented allegations made > by Mr. Hanson and Ms. Miller with great interest. The > evidence is compelling that deceptive practices are > involved. > > I am a retired P.I. and am fascinated by puzzles. > > The facts I have learned, from public records mostly, > are: -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:32:03 -0400, "Catherine Creel" wrote: > Take a look at any of the sites where current and previously licensed >physicians are listed. You'll never find him. > > I wouldn't call what was done on Tracy's list character assassination. >There was a tremendous amount of damning evidence, including >articles from a newspaper in Florida, and mention of the very same >cats "Dr. Jon" talks about now - except then, his name was Stewart. > > That's the last I'm saying on the topic. > >Catherine > Part of a post in our own archives: Chuck Hearsay: What small children do when you mutter a dirty word. *** This is a post from another list by Darrell Sandlien, concerning the "Dr. Jon" scandal. "I have followed the well documented allegations made by Mr. Hanson and Ms. Miller with great interest. The evidence is compelling that deceptive practices are involved. I am a retired P.I. and am fascinated by puzzles. The facts I have learned, from public records mostly, are: 1. Dr. Jon Brooks appears to be the pen name of Fred Fason, M.D., who graduated from Baylor Medical School in 1960. Dr. Fason did his residency at U.C.L.A. 2. Stewart Fason is a well known philanthropist in the Palm Beach, FL area. He donated his home, at 115 Via la Selva, Palm Beach to The Jewish Community Day school. It had a mortgage of over 300k so the school only netted about 650k when sold for $1,000,000.00 to a bank president. He gave away almost $200,000.00 in computer equipment to various schools and universities. I spoke with Carol Roberts, a former Mayor of W. Palm Beach. She confirmed that the Fasons presented many concerts in So. Florida, showcasing young artists. They would invite the entire audience to their home for a post concert reception. They were the first to open their mansion to ordinary people. There was never any charge. They refused to accept any donations. If one could not afford the modest cost of the concerts, they became guests of The Chopin Society, a charitable trust founded by the Fasons. In the 70's Fason got in a jam with the C.F.T.C. After years of litigation he settled for a $75,000.00 fine, which was peanuts to him. 3. There is little data on John Fason. All I could find was he graduated from Rice University Law School. My friend was overcharged by $22.00 by the Generic Co-op. Within a week he received a refund check, which it appeared Fason signed. The check was drawn on The First National bank of Sharp County, Ash Flat AR. I called the bank and was referred to Morris Street, an officer. Mr. Street knew John well and had only glowing comments. They handle all the VISA/MC business for the Co-op. I asked if they had many complaints about The Generic Co-op. He replied, "Not one from thousands of transactions." MAKING SENSE OF ALL THIS There is no doubt that the Fasons walk to a beat of a different drummer. In reviewing the past newsletters on Yahoo I came across this, allegedly written by his cat ON 8-26-01???: * "IF YOU BOUGHT BETA SITOSTEROL RECENTLY, YOU GOT E-SCREWED! The lab report came in today. It revealed that the current production of Beta Sitosterol contains only 90% of what is claimed. To meet the CO-op's specifications it must have a minimum of 97%. I advised him to just clam up, as you would never know the difference for it is still almost twice as potent as the previous production. For some mysterious reason, Jon believes that a failure to disclose a material fact is exactly the same as lying. A cat would never embrace such an archaic position. Therefore, if you purchased the recent production, please multiply the number of bottles times .88 cents. On your next order, remind us that we owe you, and it will be deducted from the total of your new order. Until this production is sold out, the price has been reduced .88 cents to $7.89. I still think it is stupid to give away .88 cents on 25,000 bottles." Has anyone ever heard of a company voluntarily disclosing that their product failed to meet specifications and giving a refund? I inquired of the Co-op about the laboratory reports which they once published. They quickly faxed a few to me. I have never heard of any other supplement marketer making their lab reports public. I verified that the free vitamins, claimed to have been given to charities, was correct. A couple of two minute phone calls was all that was needed. It is difficult to understand the allegations, of Hanson and Miller, that the $1.00 donations went in to Fason's pocket. Makes no sense that one who has given away a fortune would bother with $1.00 donations to enrich himself. The allegation that the Co-op is a big profit maker makes no sense as I cannot find any competitive products with the same, or be
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
<> Take a look at any of the sites where current and previously licensed physicians are listed. You'll never find him. I wouldn't call what was done on Tracy's list character assassination. There was a tremendous amount of damning evidence, including articles from a newspaper in Florida, and mention of the very same cats "Dr. Jon" talks about now - except then, his name was Stewart. That's the last I'm saying on the topic. Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
<> As I said, Kallie Miller has all the evidence. She can be found on Yahoo group Mr. Tracy's Corner. I don't expound "beliefs", I expound facts. Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
i am a member of this co-op and enjoy the prices and all. i took exception to his comments r.e. Cs, and sent him an email. but i have heard you expound your beliefs on several topics, and would like you to back up your statements here. - Original Message - From: "Catherine Creel" To: Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:15 PM Subject: Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP > Dear Rod, > > > You said: > > < "woof, woof!" "meow!" "fair members" ? I think these retired > Doctors have been at the gas and air once too often.>> > > The guy isn't a doctor. That's why he's hiding out in the islands. > He was exposed as a fraud and huckster.. > > Regards, > Catherine > > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour > >
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
Hi Listers, > The guy isn't a doctor. That's why he's hiding out in the > islands. > He was exposed as a fraud and huckster.. > I have been a memeber of the Co-op for over a year now and all I have to say about it is its the best thing since toast was invented! I get quality products far cheaper then I can anywhere else and they take care of their customers well. I could care less what Jon, Stuart, Dr.Jon, The catmaster or whommever he is,he has done a great thing for a whole lot of people and I dont have a ounce of malice for him or the C0-Op! I saw the CS warning and wanted to respond to it also. I think this is a case of the consultant being misinformed and he needs to be set straight on it. Ceartainly someone in this group more qualified then myself can do that? Don Wells -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
Tel: Very Interesting, thanks for the post. It seems that their response was both reasonable and cordial. I never expect MD's, without any experience and only brief research, to have any other position on colloidal silver. What seperates the thinkers from the perpetually ignorant is a willingness to investigate further. Jason - Original Message - From: Tel Tofflemire To: Silver list Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:37 AM Subject: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP List : this is a warning posted yesterday on the Generic coop news letter. I shot back to them with my disgust, they responded. I think you should write to them too, if you have anything to say. This is a group of retired Dr.so running this company now, and they should be held responsible for what they report. At least with opposition. Their address is below Silver list guy Tel Tofflemire Dewey, AZ (gu...@ourhealthcoop.com)! COLLOIDAL SILVER - A WARNING! A lot of you write asking about how to make colloidal silver at home. Think again fair members! According to the FDA, no over-the-counter colloidal silver products are generally recognized as safe! In fact, Aldo cautions that overdosing can cause a condition called 'argyria,' which is a permanent, non-reversible bluish discoloration of the skin! Alchemists beware! Woof, woof! You've gotten introduced to the dog's wisdom. Please feel free to ask Aldo questions -- through moi (gu...@ourhealthcoop.com)! While I can't promise to get every question answered, yours may be one that we pick for a future newsletter! Cheerio, Guido The COOP had a reply below... Meow Tel, We'll be issuing an update shortly - apologies on the colloidal silver caution without enough context. Some newbies were sending some notes with some things that scared us that they weren't being careful. Re the Red Rice Yeast, we'll take another look. I have a note into the consulting firm and have called into question the guy assigned to us on this last set of questions. The owner is first rate and I sent the note to him. Stay tuned. We are working hard to support the Co-op members with quality and low prices. We will be sure to give conflicting sides fair play. And, I'm thinking about creating a members' council of sorts, to preview things from the Co-op. Thanks for taking the time to write - I appreciate it, even if it stings a bit sometimes! Yours truly, Guido
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
Kallie is part of mr Tracys' group. They allow character assassination as long as it's not about their own members. Went through all of this a year ago. It still surfaces, showing how powerful gossip and innuendo can be. I find it despicable. Chuck Gonorrhea: how a New Englander describes vacationing in Brazil On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:57:43 -0400, "Catherine Creel" wrote: >< There ARE those that don't like him though. >That's part of life...>> > > > No, Chuck, I'm really not. >All the evidence is available. >I don't make statements based >upon others' statements. I look >for facts. I found them. > >Kallie Miller has all the links to the >evidence. I think she is a member of >this group. > > His actual name is Stewart. > > I don't have the time to re-create >the trail. Perhaps Kallie will speak up. > >Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
<> No, Chuck, I'm really not. All the evidence is available. I don't make statements based upon others' statements. I look for facts. I found them. Kallie Miller has all the links to the evidence. I think she is a member of this group. His actual name is Stewart. I don't have the time to re-create the trail. Perhaps Kallie will speak up. Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
You are misinformed. There ARE those that don't like him though. That's part of life... Chuck When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds. On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:15:15 -0400, "Catherine Creel" wrote: > The guy isn't a doctor. That's why he's hiding out in the islands. >He was exposed as a fraud and huckster.. > >Regards, >Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
Dear Rod, You said: <> The guy isn't a doctor. That's why he's hiding out in the islands. He was exposed as a fraud and huckster.. Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
Tel, thanks for writing back to these jokers. I won't be..."woof, woof!" "meow!" "fair members" ? I think these retired Doctors have been at the gas and air once too often. Regards Rod - Original Message - From: Tel Tofflemire To: Silver list Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:37 PM Subject: CS>A WARNING from Health CooP
