Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
That's not a skeptic. Believer [or Anti Believer...same thing] by default? But like my Dad says about UFOs...unless they help or interfere with putting food on the table, whether or not they exist doesn't mattergot better things to do with my time. Ode We already have a fine example of a skeptic in a previous email, let me quote it here; (and this is totally fine, it's a reality he is comfortable with, God bless him) I don't even look anymore, If I hadn't seen anything in the past 75 years it is highly unlikely I would recognize it anyway. Jason R Eaton wrote: Hi Bodhisattva: snip -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
A true skeptic is a non believer. Most are really *anti* believers no different from their opposition, neither of which closely examines beliefs and both of which bolsters them with exclusion of all that doesn't apply. ode At 06:06 PM 6/21/2010 -0400, you wrote: You put it directly, I said the same thing nicely. Basically, skeptics are 'dead energy', nothing moves either way, nothing happens. Jane MacRoss wrote: I have found skeptics to be basically fence sitters which means they are usually pains in the A*se whereas I walk a razor's edged path so it's my feet that are sore. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June ...wow, what great science. Let's thus toss out electromagnetism, abstractionism, aphorism Actually, the word skepticism is a very revealing word with an interesting history and word origin. The word ism actually means doctrine, system, manner, condition, at and characteristic. The history of the word skeptic started with philosophy of the Pyrrho of Elis, who fought dogmatism by showing reasons for doubting it, but which today is the position that absolute knowledge is impossible but that science can succeed with relative certainty. The word comes from the latin word scepticus and Greek skeptikos skeptic from skeptesthai to examine closely. This word comes from a the root, PIE *spek-/*spok- look, see (i.e. spectator, inspect, and even spice ). Spice via the French version of Latin species, which originally meant kind, type, but later came to mean wares and then spice. Finally, the [p] and [k] traded places in Greek (metathesis), where we find skopein to see, like in some great words words telescope, microscope, and the new (slang) verb to scope out. Thus, the word skepticism literally can be translated to mean: To examine closely in an orderly manner. Nice word that. In my experience, 9-10 People who don't like the word skepticism or skeptics usually don't because the things they say fall apart quickly under close examination. Your experience may be different though. Best Regards, Jason -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Now *that* is a very well thought out, reasoned argument, and worthy of being taken on board. I bet it won't be in some quarters though. dee On 21 Jun 2010, at 23:37, Jason R Eaton wrote: Hi Bodhisattva: Your remarks are (and quite classically) very prejudicial. Skeptics are not armchair philosophers. They are scientists, with a varying degree of skill, that are quite active in world of inquiry. Granted, there are many people who don't understand the term and claim to be one, but this is universal with any belief system. The true skeptic ideology ignores belief altogether as absent of real existance. A belief is only a form of energy (a very feeble one, usually) and has only a fleeting connection with reality (objective or perceived). And while most ardent skeptics are very existential, they ***do not ever*** fall into the trap of discounting anecdotal evidence. This of course means that a good skeptic cannot afford an atheistic viewpoint any more than a good skeptic can afford a perspective of fervent religious faith. This usually makes the true skeptic a highly successful, achieved, and qualified scientist. However, like most disciples of truth, finding a good practitioner can be extremely rare. http://www.skeptic.com Most people of spiritual concerns are deeply resentful of skepticism. This is quite sad, as I was personally taught to apply this very buddhistic idea first and foremost with the mental and emotional realm as a part of a healthy spiritual discipline. Equally, however, people neglect to remember that the end result of inquiry is either a demonstration of fact or a lack of conclusion. With most actual real spiritual pursuits, the act of inquiry will lead to a lack of conclusion... and yet, hopefully, the collection of useful data. A skeptic is ok with being left in doubt; a believer is usually NOT ok with that uncomfortable concept. However, there are times when skepticism has demonstrated beyond any possible doubt the reality of certain religious, spiritual and philisophical practices. I could list some of the spiritual greats of world history (few of which have come from the English speaking world) that embrace the art of Inquiry (need I neglect to mention the Indian sage who perfect the art of Self Inqiry from atma-vicara?)... but someone else already did a good job with historic figures for me: http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/quotes/list/science/ I actually view your weak and unsubstantiated (not to mention not very well thought out) negativity against the idea of the skeptic as an attack which needs a few moments of reasonable defense. While the off topic list is the perfect place for such things to be discussed, I think that THIS list needs to remain very open to inquiry and questioning and doubt... for the benefit of the people who do not believe as you do. If you had stated that you are a Nazi and hate jews, you would have been banned from this list. However, it appears that other forms of prejudism are well tolerated. Best Regards, Jason -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
You might state that you enjoy it, but you don't actually *listen* to any of it though! The only opinion you seem to take any notice of is your own, or someone who agrees with you. That doesn't strike me as being open minded. dee On 21 Jun 2010, at 23:56, bodhisattva wrote: This isn't relevant at all, since I clearly state - I ENJOY inquiry and investigation, and encourage it. That's healthy, but that's not skepticism, which is not careful, rational, and intuitive study/investigation/exploration/trial, but an extreme of such to the point that outcomes are often ignored, or summarily discounted. Anything else is arguing over semantics, and you are welcome to do that.. With yourself. We already have a fine example of a skeptic in a previous email, let me quote it here; (and this is totally fine, it's a reality he is comfortable with, God bless him) I don't even look anymore, If I hadn't seen anything in the past 75 years it is highly unlikely I would recognize it anyway. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
I think this is ridiculous. To be a sceptic means to question things, not to dismiss things out of hand. I question things--which means everything I'm told, and then if it turns out to be true or correct, then I will take it on board. This is the opposite of blindly following what you are told and this includes everything from health, doctors, scientist, religions, everything! How can this be a bad thing? dee On 22 Jun 2010, at 01:39, Alan Jones wrote: Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery? Alan -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
And hopefully, Dee will soon reach my post reqeusting that we end this topic, and stop responding to it!? evil grin In the meantime, everybody please refrain from responding to Dee's posts! Thank you. Mike I think this is ridiculous. To be a sceptic means to question things, not to dismiss things out of hand. I question things--which means everything I'm told, and then if it turns out to be true or correct, then I will take it on board. This is the opposite of blindly following what you are told and this includes everything from health, doctors, scientist, religions, everything! How can this be a bad thing? dee On 22 Jun 2010, at 01:39, Alan Jones wrote: Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery? Alan -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ]
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Ode In my neck of the woods that is known as being solid ( not gullible). CS is real , you can see it and you can feel it's benefits. Dave On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:50 AM, Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.netwrote: That's not a skeptic. Believer [or Anti Believer...same thing] by default? But like my Dad says about UFOs...unless they help or interfere with putting food on the table, whether or not they exist doesn't mattergot better things to do with my time. Ode We already have a fine example of a skeptic in a previous email, let me quote it here; (and this is totally fine, it's a reality he is comfortable with, God bless him) I don't even look anymore, If I hadn't seen anything in the past 75 years it is highly unlikely I would recognize it anyway. Jason R Eaton wrote: Hi Bodhisattva: snip -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
I have found skeptics to be basically fence sitters which means they are usually pains in the A*se whereas I walk a razor's edged path so it's my feet that are sore. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June ...wow, what great science. Let's thus toss out electromagnetism, abstractionism, aphorism Actually, the word skepticism is a very revealing word with an interesting history and word origin. The word ism actually means doctrine, system, manner, condition, at and characteristic. The history of the word skeptic started with philosophy of the Pyrrho of Elis, who fought dogmatism by showing reasons for doubting it, but which today is the position that absolute knowledge is impossible but that science can succeed with relative certainty. The word comes from the latin word scepticus and Greek skeptikos skeptic from skeptesthai to examine closely. This word comes from a the root, PIE *spek-/*spok- look, see (i.e. spectator, inspect, and even spice ). Spice via the French version of Latin species, which originally meant kind, type, but later came to mean wares and then spice. Finally, the [p] and [k] traded places in Greek (metathesis), where we find skopein to see, like in some great words words telescope, microscope, and the new (slang) verb to scope out. Thus, the word skepticism literally can be translated to mean: To examine closely in an orderly manner. Nice word that. In my experience, 9-10 People who don't like the word skepticism or skeptics usually don't because the things they say fall apart quickly under close examination. Your experience may be different though. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: bodhisattva To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:08 PM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June Not an opinion, a fact. Skepticism itself is a 'doctrine', and a 'Skeptic' is a preacher of this doctrine/religion. Ism' is basically something taken too far, before one engages their logical, and intuitive mind to take a rational, healthy approach to something. The dictionary defines an 'ism' as an oppressive and especially discriminatory attitude or belief. Fundamentalism Islamicism Rationalism Skepticism Buddhism Hinduism Catholicism Evanglicalism All the same, just another oppressive doctrine. Like I said a good healthy, open mind, with an intuitive sense of wonder, and a logical sense of investigation is best termed 'normal'. Anything else, is probably considered to be some degree of insanity, or irrational overzealousness.. Prill beads, and this discussion I will continue on the off-topic list if it is warranted. Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote: Your opinion, not mine. dee On 21 Jun 2010, at 20:22, bodhisattva wrote: Open questioning is healthy, skepticism is another 'ism' and is therefore, harmful. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2396 - Release Date: 09/26/09 05:51:00
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
You put it directly, I said the same thing nicely. Basically, skeptics are 'dead energy', nothing moves either way, nothing happens. Jane MacRoss wrote: I have found skeptics to be basically fence sitters which means they are usually pains in the A*se whereas I walk a razor's edged path so it's my feet that are sore. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June ...wow, what great science. Let's thus toss out electromagnetism, abstractionism, aphorism Actually, the word skepticism is a very revealing word with an interesting history and word origin. The word ism actually means doctrine, system, manner, condition, at and characteristic. The history of the word skeptic started with philosophy of the Pyrrho of Elis, who fought dogmatism by showing reasons for doubting it, but which today is the position that absolute knowledge is impossible but that science can succeed with relative certainty. The word comes from the latin word scepticus and Greek skeptikos skeptic from skeptesthai to examine closely. This word comes from a the root, PIE *spek-/*spok- look, see (i.e. spectator, inspect, and even spice ). Spice via the French version of Latin species, which originally meant kind, type, but later came to mean wares and then spice. Finally, the [p] and [k] traded places in Greek (metathesis), where we find skopein to see, like in some great words words telescope, microscope, and the new (slang) verb to scope out. Thus, the word skepticism literally can be translated to mean: To examine closely in an orderly manner. Nice word that. In my experience, 9-10 People who don't like the word skepticism or skeptics usually don't because the things they say fall apart quickly under close examination. Your experience may be different though. Best Regards, Jason -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Jane My answer to that is jump off the razor edge on the side of proven protocol and give your feet a rest. Of course looking on the other side to see if you missed anything good now and then should be less perplexing. I don't even look anymore, If I hadn't seen anything in the past 75 years it is highly unlikely I would recognise it anyway. Hurray for SPAM boxes and programs to send messages that offend the sensibilitys there. Dave On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Jane MacRoss highfie...@internode.on.netwrote: I have found skeptics to be basically fence sitters which means they are usually pains in the A*se whereas I walk a razor's edged path so it's my feet that are sore. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June ...wow, what great science. Let's thus toss out electromagnetism, abstractionism, aphorism Actually, the word skepticism is a very revealing word with an interesting history and word origin. The word ism actually means doctrine, system, manner, condition, at and characteristic. The history of the word skeptic started with philosophy of the Pyrrho of Elis, who fought dogmatism by showing reasons for doubting it, but which today is the position that absolute knowledge is impossible but that science can succeed with relative certainty. The word comes from the latin word scepticus and Greek skeptikos skeptic from skeptesthai to examine closely. This word comes from a the root, PIE *spek-/*spok- look, see (i.e. spectator, inspect, and even spice ). Spice via the French version of Latin species, which originally meant kind, type, but later came to mean wares and then spice. Finally, the [p] and [k] traded places in Greek (metathesis), where we find skopein to see, like in some great words words telescope, microscope, and the new (slang) verb to scope out. Thus, the word skepticism literally can be translated to mean: To examine closely in an orderly manner. Nice word that. In my experience, 9-10 People who don't like the word skepticism or skeptics usually don't because the things they say fall apart quickly under close examination. Your experience may be different though. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: bodhisattva To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:08 PM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June Not an opinion, a fact. Skepticism itself is a 'doctrine', and a 'Skeptic' is a preacher of this doctrine/religion. Ism' is basically something taken too far, before one engages their logical, and intuitive mind to take a rational, healthy approach to something. The dictionary defines an 'ism' as an oppressive and especially discriminatory attitude or belief. Fundamentalism Islamicism Rationalism Skepticism Buddhism Hinduism Catholicism Evanglicalism All the same, just another oppressive doctrine. Like I said a good healthy, open mind, with an intuitive sense of wonder, and a logical sense of investigation is best termed 'normal'. Anything else, is probably considered to be some degree of insanity, or irrational overzealousness.. Prill beads, and this discussion I will continue on the off-topic list if it is warranted. Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote: Your opinion, not mine. dee On 21 Jun 2010, at 20:22, bodhisattva wrote: Open questioning is healthy, skepticism is another 'ism' and is therefore, harmful. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2396 - Release Date: 09/26/09 05:51:00
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Hi Bodhisattva: Your remarks are (and quite classically) very prejudicial. Skeptics are not armchair philosophers. They are scientists, with a varying degree of skill, that are quite active in world of inquiry. Granted, there are many people who don't understand the term and claim to be one, but this is universal with any belief system. The true skeptic ideology ignores belief altogether as absent of real existance. A belief is only a form of energy (a very feeble one, usually) and has only a fleeting connection with reality (objective or perceived). And while most ardent skeptics are very existential, they ***do not ever*** fall into the trap of discounting anecdotal evidence. This of course means that a good skeptic cannot afford an atheistic viewpoint any more than a good skeptic can afford a perspective of fervent religious faith. This usually makes the true skeptic a highly successful, achieved, and qualified scientist. However, like most disciples of truth, finding a good practitioner can be extremely rare. http://www.skeptic.com Most people of spiritual concerns are deeply resentful of skepticism. This is quite sad, as I was personally taught to apply this very buddhistic idea first and foremost with the mental and emotional realm as a part of a healthy spiritual discipline. Equally, however, people neglect to remember that the end result of inquiry is either a demonstration of fact or a lack of conclusion. With most actual real spiritual pursuits, the act of inquiry will lead to a lack of conclusion... and yet, hopefully, the collection of useful data. A skeptic is ok with being left in doubt; a believer is usually NOT ok with that uncomfortable concept. However, there are times when skepticism has demonstrated beyond any possible doubt the reality of certain religious, spiritual and philisophical practices. I could list some of the spiritual greats of world history (few of which have come from the English speaking world) that embrace the art of Inquiry (need I neglect to mention the Indian sage who perfect the art of Self Inqiry from atma-vicara?)... but someone else already did a good job with historic figures for me: http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/quotes/list/science/ I actually view your weak and unsubstantiated (not to mention not very well thought out) negativity against the idea of the skeptic as an attack which needs a few moments of reasonable defense. While the off topic list is the perfect place for such things to be discussed, I think that THIS list needs to remain very open to inquiry and questioning and doubt... for the benefit of the people who do not believe as you do. If you had stated that you are a Nazi and hate jews, you would have been banned from this list. However, it appears that other forms of prejudism are well tolerated. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: bodhisattva bodhisat...@mutemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June You put it directly, I said the same thing nicely. Basically, skeptics are 'dead energy', nothing moves either way, nothing happens. Jane MacRoss wrote: I have found skeptics to be basically fence sitters which means they are usually pains in the A*se whereas I walk a razor's edged path so it's my feet that are sore. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June ...wow, what great science. Let's thus toss out electromagnetism, abstractionism, aphorism Actually, the word skepticism is a very revealing word with an interesting history and word origin. The word ism actually means doctrine, system, manner, condition, at and characteristic. The history of the word skeptic started with philosophy of the Pyrrho of Elis, who fought dogmatism by showing reasons for doubting it, but which today is the position that absolute knowledge is impossible but that science can succeed with relative certainty. The word comes from the latin word scepticus and Greek skeptikos skeptic from skeptesthai to examine closely. This word comes from a the root, PIE *spek-/*spok- look, see (i.e. spectator, inspect, and even spice ). Spice via the French version of Latin species, which originally meant kind, type, but later came to mean wares and then spice. Finally, the [p] and [k] traded places in Greek (metathesis), where we find skopein to see, like in some great words words telescope, microscope, and the new (slang) verb to scope out. Thus, the word skepticism literally can be translated to mean: To examine closely in an orderly manner. Nice word that. In my experience, 9-10 People who don't like
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
This isn't relevant at all, since I clearly state - I ENJOY inquiry and investigation, and encourage it. That's healthy, but that's not skepticism, which is not careful, rational, and intuitive study/investigation/exploration/trial, but an extreme of such to the point that outcomes are often ignored, or summarily discounted. Anything else is arguing over semantics, and you are welcome to do that.. With /yourself/. We already have a fine example of a skeptic in a previous email, let me quote it here; (and this is totally fine, it's a reality he is comfortable with, God bless him) /I don't even look anymore, If I hadn't seen anything in the past 75 years it is highly unlikely I would recognize it anyway. / Jason R Eaton wrote: Hi Bodhisattva: snip
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Science will eventually catch up with Spirit, but if it gets ahead of Spirit then we are in dire straits, and we are. Science, the intellect, is of no value without the Heart of Spirit. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June Hi Bodhisattva: Your remarks are (and quite classically) very prejudicial. Skeptics are not armchair philosophers. They are scientists, with a varying degree of skill, that are quite active in world of inquiry. Granted, there are many people who don't understand the term and claim to be one, but this is universal with any belief system. The true skeptic ideology ignores belief altogether as absent of real existance. A belief is only a form of energy (a very feeble one, usually) and has only a fleeting connection with reality (objective or perceived). And while most ardent skeptics are very existential, they ***do not ever*** fall into the trap of discounting anecdotal evidence. This of course means that a good skeptic cannot afford an atheistic viewpoint any more than a good skeptic can afford a perspective of fervent religious faith. This usually makes the true skeptic a highly successful, achieved, and qualified scientist. However, like most disciples of truth, finding a good practitioner can be extremely rare. http://www.skeptic.com Most people of spiritual concerns are deeply resentful of skepticism. This is quite sad, as I was personally taught to apply this very buddhistic idea first and foremost with the mental and emotional realm as a part of a healthy spiritual discipline. Equally, however, people neglect to remember that the end result of inquiry is either a demonstration of fact or a lack of conclusion. With most actual real spiritual pursuits, the act of inquiry will lead to a lack of conclusion... and yet, hopefully, the collection of useful data. A skeptic is ok with being left in doubt; a believer is usually NOT ok with that uncomfortable concept. However, there are times when skepticism has demonstrated beyond any possible doubt the reality of certain religious, spiritual and philisophical practices. I could list some of the spiritual greats of world history (few of which have come from the English speaking world) that embrace the art of Inquiry (need I neglect to mention the Indian sage who perfect the art of Self Inqiry from atma-vicara?)... but someone else already did a good job with historic figures for me: http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/quotes/list/science/ I actually view your weak and unsubstantiated (not to mention not very well thought out) negativity against the idea of the skeptic as an attack which needs a few moments of reasonable defense. While the off topic list is the perfect place for such things to be discussed, I think that THIS list needs to remain very open to inquiry and questioning and doubt... for the benefit of the people who do not believe as you do. If you had stated that you are a Nazi and hate jews, you would have been banned from this list. However, it appears that other forms of prejudism are well tolerated. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: bodhisattva bodhisat...@mutemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June You put it directly, I said the same thing nicely. Basically, skeptics are 'dead energy', nothing moves either way, nothing happens. Jane MacRoss wrote: I have found skeptics to be basically fence sitters which means they are usually pains in the A*se whereas I walk a razor's edged path so it's my feet that are sore. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June ...wow, what great science. Let's thus toss out electromagnetism, abstractionism, aphorism Actually, the word skepticism is a very revealing word with an interesting history and word origin. The word ism actually means doctrine, system, manner, condition, at and characteristic. The history of the word skeptic started with philosophy of the Pyrrho of Elis, who fought dogmatism by showing reasons for doubting it, but which today is the position that absolute knowledge is impossible but that science can succeed with relative certainty. The word comes from the latin word scepticus and Greek skeptikos skeptic from skeptesthai to examine closely. This word comes from a the root, PIE *spek-/*spok- look, see (i.e. spectator, inspect, and even spice ). Spice via
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery? Alan On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.orgwrote: Hi Bodhisattva: Your remarks are (and quite classically) very prejudicial. Skeptics are not armchair philosophers. They are scientists, with a varying degree of skill, that are quite active in world of inquiry. Granted, there are many people who don't understand the term and claim to be one, but this is universal with any belief system. The true skeptic ideology ignores belief altogether as absent of real existance. A belief is only a form of energy (a very feeble one, usually) and has only a fleeting connection with reality (objective or perceived). And while most ardent skeptics are very existential, they ***do not ever*** fall into the trap of discounting anecdotal evidence. This of course means that a good skeptic cannot afford an atheistic viewpoint any more than a good skeptic can afford a perspective of fervent religious faith. This usually makes the true skeptic a highly successful, achieved, and qualified scientist. However, like most disciples of truth, finding a good practitioner can be extremely rare. http://www.skeptic.com Most people of spiritual concerns are deeply resentful of skepticism. This is quite sad, as I was personally taught to apply this very buddhistic idea first and foremost with the mental and emotional realm as a part of a healthy spiritual discipline. Equally, however, people neglect to remember that the end result of inquiry is either a demonstration of fact or a lack of conclusion. With most actual real spiritual pursuits, the act of inquiry will lead to a lack of conclusion... and yet, hopefully, the collection of useful data. A skeptic is ok with being left in doubt; a believer is usually NOT ok with that uncomfortable concept. However, there are times when skepticism has demonstrated beyond any possible doubt the reality of certain religious, spiritual and philisophical practices. I could list some of the spiritual greats of world history (few of which have come from the English speaking world) that embrace the art of Inquiry (need I neglect to mention the Indian sage who perfect the art of Self Inqiry from atma-vicara?)... but someone else already did a good job with historic figures for me: http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/quotes/list/science/ I actually view your weak and unsubstantiated (not to mention not very well thought out) negativity against the idea of the skeptic as an attack which needs a few moments of reasonable defense. While the off topic list is the perfect place for such things to be discussed, I think that THIS list needs to remain very open to inquiry and questioning and doubt... for the benefit of the people who do not believe as you do. If you had stated that you are a Nazi and hate jews, you would have been banned from this list. However, it appears that other forms of prejudism are well tolerated. Best Regards, Jason -- Alan Jones The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. (Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution)
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
I'll answer, you are right, almost /*all */skeptic sites state colloidal silver is quackery. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html *Colloidal Silver: Risk Without Benefit* http://www.ntskeptics.org/2001/2001november/november2001.htm *Hi-Yo, Colloidal Silver!* http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2220 *However, if the Blue Man Group is looking for members, I know a potential source that will save on makeup costs.* http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/02/snake-oil-salesman-gets-what-he-deserves/ *Precious metals nanowater? The panel is unimpressed. Is there insanity in there?* http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=1pid=114 *Colloidal Snake Oil * Alan Jones wrote: Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery? Alan
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
\Hi Alan: Not at all... Sites such as Quackwatch, et al. aren't run by skeptics, they are run by individuals posing as some sort of authority. A skeptic, by definition, would actually DO the science to see if the claims made by CS had any valid (many of us skeptics did exaclty just that... I've personally commissioned several scientific studies, as well as run test groups actually testing the effectiveness of CS for a basic data pool... ). If a skeptic was not in a position to do the science, the skeptic would work diligently examining any and all scientific data available. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Alan Jones To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery? Alan On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org wrote: Hi Bodhisattva: Your remarks are (and quite classically) very prejudicial. Skeptics are not armchair philosophers. They are scientists, with a varying degree of skill, that are quite active in world of inquiry. Granted, there are many people who don't understand the term and claim to be one, but this is universal with any belief system. The true skeptic ideology ignores belief altogether as absent of real existance. A belief is only a form of energy (a very feeble one, usually) and has only a fleeting connection with reality (objective or perceived). And while most ardent skeptics are very existential, they ***do not ever*** fall into the trap of discounting anecdotal evidence. This of course means that a good skeptic cannot afford an atheistic viewpoint any more than a good skeptic can afford a perspective of fervent religious faith. This usually makes the true skeptic a highly successful, achieved, and qualified scientist. However, like most disciples of truth, finding a good practitioner can be extremely rare. http://www.skeptic.com Most people of spiritual concerns are deeply resentful of skepticism. This is quite sad, as I was personally taught to apply this very buddhistic idea first and foremost with the mental and emotional realm as a part of a healthy spiritual discipline. Equally, however, people neglect to remember that the end result of inquiry is either a demonstration of fact or a lack of conclusion. With most actual real spiritual pursuits, the act of inquiry will lead to a lack of conclusion... and yet, hopefully, the collection of useful data. A skeptic is ok with being left in doubt; a believer is usually NOT ok with that uncomfortable concept. However, there are times when skepticism has demonstrated beyond any possible doubt the reality of certain religious, spiritual and philisophical practices. I could list some of the spiritual greats of world history (few of which have come from the English speaking world) that embrace the art of Inquiry (need I neglect to mention the Indian sage who perfect the art of Self Inqiry from atma-vicara?)... but someone else already did a good job with historic figures for me: http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/quotes/list/science/ I actually view your weak and unsubstantiated (not to mention not very well thought out) negativity against the idea of the skeptic as an attack which needs a few moments of reasonable defense. While the off topic list is the perfect place for such things to be discussed, I think that THIS list needs to remain very open to inquiry and questioning and doubt... for the benefit of the people who do not believe as you do. If you had stated that you are a Nazi and hate jews, you would have been banned from this list. However, it appears that other forms of prejudism are well tolerated. Best Regards, Jason -- Alan Jones The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. (Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution)
RE: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
[...run test groups actually testing the effectiveness of CS...]
-Perhaps you could you elaborate a little on the 'testing of effectiveness'?
In what form was that EIS/CS in? Was it a stabilised form {after standing for
a period of time}, or was it used immediately after cessation of production?
{when it's at it's highest ionic silver content}, or was it using a product
produced by some secret proprietary production method? {in which case one would
know the ion/particulate ratio content...among many other things}.
[...the skeptic would work diligently examining any and all scientific data
available.]
-This is about the only way of determining pretty much anything EIS/CS related
nowadays. The individual needs to make determinations for him/herself from
most of the literature and published material available.
N.
From: resea...@silvermedicine.org
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:31:17 -0700
\Hi Alan:
Not at all... Sites such as Quackwatch, et al. aren't run by skeptics, they
are run by individuals posing as some sort of authority.
A skeptic, by definition, would actually DO the science to see if the claims
made by CS had any valid (many of us skeptics did exaclty just that... I've
personally commissioned several scientific studies, as well as run test groups
actually testing the effectiveness of CS for a basic data pool... ). If a
skeptic was not in a position to do the science, the skeptic would work
diligently examining any and all scientific data available.
Best Regards,
Jason
- Original Message -
From: Alan Jones
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery?
Alan
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Jason R Eaton resea...@silvermedicine.org
wrote:
Hi Bodhisattva:
Your remarks are (and quite classically) very prejudicial. Skeptics are not
armchair philosophers. They are scientists, with a varying degree of skill,
that are quite active in world of inquiry. Granted, there are many people who
don't understand the term and claim to be one, but this is universal with any
belief system.
The true skeptic ideology ignores belief altogether as absent of real
existance. A belief is only a form of energy (a very feeble one, usually) and
has only a fleeting connection with reality (objective or perceived). And while
most ardent skeptics are very existential, they ***do not ever*** fall into the
trap of discounting anecdotal evidence. This of course means that a good
skeptic cannot afford an atheistic viewpoint any more than a good skeptic can
afford a perspective of fervent religious faith.
This usually makes the true skeptic a highly successful, achieved, and
qualified scientist. However, like most disciples of truth, finding a good
practitioner can be extremely rare.
http://www.skeptic.com
Most people of spiritual concerns are deeply resentful of skepticism. This is
quite sad, as I was personally taught to apply this very buddhistic idea first
and foremost with the mental and emotional realm as a part of a healthy
spiritual discipline. Equally, however, people neglect to remember that the
end result of inquiry is either a demonstration of fact or a lack of conclusion.
With most actual real spiritual pursuits, the act of inquiry will lead to a
lack of conclusion... and yet, hopefully, the collection of useful data. A
skeptic is ok with being left in doubt; a believer is usually NOT ok with that
uncomfortable concept. However, there are times when skepticism has
demonstrated beyond any possible doubt the reality of certain religious,
spiritual and philisophical practices.
I could list some of the spiritual greats of world history (few of which have
come from the English speaking world) that embrace the art of Inquiry (need I
neglect to mention the Indian sage who perfect the art of Self Inqiry from
atma-vicara?)... but someone else already did a good job with historic figures
for me:
http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/quotes/list/science/
I actually view your weak and unsubstantiated (not to mention not very well
thought out) negativity against the idea of the skeptic as an attack which
needs a few moments of reasonable defense. While the off topic list is the
perfect place for such things to be discussed, I think that THIS list needs to
remain very open to inquiry and questioning and doubt... for the benefit of
the people who do not believe as you do.
If you had stated that you are a Nazi and hate jews, you would have been banned
from this list. However, it appears that other forms of prejudism are well
tolerated.
Best Regards,
Jason
--
Alan Jones
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited
Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June
That's not skepticism, that's ignorance or stupidity, silver has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years for various health issues. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - From: Alan Jones To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Skeptics was // Re: CSMagnesium Oxide Prill Beads - 20 June Jason, don't most so-called skeptics dismiss colloidal silver as quackery? Alan
