Re: [Simh] pdp11 fails MAINDEC CPU test 14 D0NA

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:49:13 -0400
Paul Koning  wrote:

> The best reference for implementation dependencies is the PDP11
> architecture handbook.  It covers the topic in Appendix B, 13 pages,
> 52 separate items.  I don't see it on Bitsavers, unfortunately.

 http://wwcm.synology.me/pdf/EB-23657-18%20PDP-11%20Architecture%20Handbook.pdf
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] tools link on web site home page is broken

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 23:53:39 +
Paul Moore  wrote:

> Just FYI
> Goes here http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simtoolsv310-0/

Just go for:

 http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simtools/

That's the latest in the 'classic SIMH' repository.

As Mark says, for the V4.x (whatever x is) you'll need to go elsewhere.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Terminal emulation = MS-Kermit!

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 20:13:12 -0400
Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> I said it decades ago, and I?ll say it again, MS-Kermit is incredibly
> useful in emulating DEC Terminals.
> 
> I am particularly fond of its ability to put the Gold key in the
> right place on a PC-clone keypad.

Indeed. I've been using it since the 1980s.

I wrote the bundled GOLD TSR that has been used on DOS.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] MAME and simh

[Bob Eager]

I got some xterm resources off the net that I use with VMS. I don't
remember where, and I hacked them a bit. But here is the command I use:

#!/bin/sh
#   vmsterm
#   from an original script by Bob Ess
#   key translations by Erik Ahlefeldt
#   modified for TrueType fonts and extra options by Bob Eager
#   modified to suppress utf-8 for EIGHT_BIT mode
#
#   Script file using Xterm and telnet to connect to a VMS host
#   and give a decent vt220 emulation.
#
# Defaults
#
CURSOR=white
FG=white
BG=black
HOST=localhost
PORT=
TT=YES
TTFONT=Hack-Regular
FONT=9x15
BFONT=9x15bold
FONTSIZE=10
COLS=80
SCROLLBACK=1000
TERMID=vt220
#
ME="${0##*/}"
#
# Usage statement
#
Usage(){
echo " Usage: ${ME} [options]"
echo " Options: -80   for 80 column terminal"
echo "  -132  for 132 column terminal"
echo "(default is ${COLS})"
echo "  -bg colorname (default ${BG})"
echo "  -fg colorname (default ${FG})"
echo "  -fn fontname (when using -nott) (default ${FONT})"
echo "  -fb bold fontname (when using -nott) (default ${BFONT})"
echo "  -fa TrueType face name (not with -nott) (default 
${TTFONT})"
echo "  -fs font size (not with -nott) (default ${FONTSIZE})"
echo "  -nott Don't use TrueType fonts (default is to use 
Truetype)"
echo "  -sl scrollback lines (default ${SCROLLBACK})"
echo "  -host [name | IP ] (default ${HOST})"
echo "  -port number (default ${PORT})"
echo "  -help|-h display help"
echo ""
echo " Example: \"${ME} -80 -fg white -bg black -fn 9x15 -fb 9x15b 
-host earth\""
echo "  Starts a VMS session with an 80 column terminal"
echo "  with a black background, white foreground, a normal"
echo "  font of 9x15 and a bold font of 9x15b, and connects"
echo "  to the node 'earth'"
echo " Example: \"${ME} -host earth\""
echo "  Starts a VMS session with default terminal settings "
echo " Example: \"${ME} -help\""
echo "  Displays ${ME} options "
exit 1
}
#
# Parse the command line arguments
#
while [ $# != 0 ];
do
case $1 in
-80)COLS=80
FONT=spc12x24c
BFONT=spc12x24b
shift;;
-132)   COLS=132
FONT=9x15
BFONT=9x15b
shift;;
-fg)shift
FG=$1
shift;;
-bg)shift
BG=$1
shift;;
-fn)shift
FONT=$1
shift;;
-fb)shift
BFONT=$1
shift;;
-fa)shift
TTFONT=$1
shift;;
-fs)shift
FONTSIZE=$1
shift;;
-nott)  shift
TT=NO
shift;;
-sl)shift
SCROLLBACK=$1
shift;;
-host)  shift
HOST=$1
shift;;
-port)  shift
PORT=$1
shift;;
-h|-help|*)
Usage;;
esac
done

if [ "${TT}" == "YES" ]; then
FONTSEL="-fa ${TTFONT} -fs ${FONTSIZE}"
else
FONTSEL="-fn ${FONT} -fb ${BFONT}"
fi
 
xterm   -title "VMSterm" -sb -sl ${SCROLLBACK} -geometry ${COLS}x24 \
-132 -fg ${FG} -bg ${BG} -cr ${CURSOR}  ${FONTSEL} \
-rightbar -ti ${TERMID} -uc -ut \
-xrm XTerm.vt100.utf8:0 \
-xrm \
'XTerm*VT100.translations: #override \n \
~Shift  F1:string(0x1b)string("OP") \n \
~Shift  F2:string(0x1b)string("OQ") \n \
~Shift  F3:string(0x1b)string("OR") \n \
~Shift  F4:string(0x1b)string("OS") \n \
~Shift  F5:string("Break") \n \
~Shift  F6:string(0x1b)string("[17~") \n \
~Shift  F7:string(0x1b)string("[18~") \n \
~Shift  F8:string(0x1b)string

Re: [Simh] EXT : MAME and simh

[Bob Eager]

xterm works extremely well if set up right.

On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 16:37:24 +
Dan Gahlinger  wrote:

> or SecureCRT which has a whole slew of VT terminal support, control
> and options. free for 30 days but definitely worth the price.
> 
> it's what I use for my vax emulation with simh
> 
> MAME is multi ARCADE machine emulator, and while it may support or
> use the roms for VT terminals, it's only meant for use with the game
> machines that need it. don't ask me which ones, I have no idea.
> 
> as per mame maybe you could be confusing "rom" with "firmware"
> 
> mame emulating a VT terminal makes zero sense.
> 
> Dan
> 
> From: Simh  on behalf of Hittner,
> David T [US] (MS)  Sent: Wednesday, July 1,
> 2020 11:17:47 AM To: Peter Allan ; Simh
> Trailing-Edge Mailing List  Subject: Re:
> [Simh] EXT : MAME and simh
> 
> 
> Why not use PuTTY for the VT terminal emulator, which is known to
> work with SIMH?
> 
> 
> 
> What is the point of trying to use MAME for VT emulation?
> 
> 
> 
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Peter Allan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:34 AM
> To: Simh Trailing-Edge Mailing List 
> Subject: EXT :[Simh] MAME and simh
> 
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to get MAME to talk to simh in order to use MAME as a VT
> terminal emulator. However, I am failing to get the two to talk to
> each other. I have been using simh for over 10 years, but I only
> picked up MAME two days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried MAME v 0.222 on Windows 10 and MAME v 0.208 on Debian
> 10.1. Both start up successfully, but I have trouble using them. I
> also have a set of 13 ROMs for several VT terminals.
> 
> 
> 
> I have found some helpful information on the web, specifically
> 
> 
> 
> https://zork.net/~st/jottings/Real-VT102-emulation-with-MAME.html
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
>  https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/MAME_and_SIMH
> 
> 
> 
> The latter page looks like it should be just what I am looking for,
> but it describes using a VT240 ROM. My vt240 ROM doesn't work. My
> vt220 ROM does work, but when I follow the instructions to 'press F3
> to enter setup', nothing happens.
> 
> 
> 
> I have also got the impression that some of the command line options
> for mame have changed over time, so some older information on the web
> may no longer be accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> So, has anyone got this combination to work? If so, can they send me
> exact instructions on how to do it please. I hope that I am simply
> failing to do something that will become obvious with hindsight.
> 
> 
> 
> My normal Linux system is CentOS 6, CentOS 7 or Fedora 31, but I also
> have Debian 10.1 available.
> 
> 
> 
> I run several simulated VAX and PDP-11 instances using simh.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Allan
> 
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Lost PDP-11 OSes?

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 21 May 2020 16:41:40 -0400
John Forecast  wrote:

> > On May 21, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Paul Koning 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >   
> >> On May 20, 2020, at 11:38 PM, Ray Jewhurst
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> I am trying to collect all the OSes that I can for the PDP-11 on
> >> Simh and I have noticed that there are a few missing.
> > 
> > Along those lines: is there MUMPS-11 anywhere?  That's nicely
> > obscure.  Another obscure one is CAPS-11, though that's probably
> > far less interesting.
> > 
> > MUMPS was a database system, apparently a very good one.  It was
> > used as the core for ASSIST-11, a telephone directory assistance
> > database.  In other words, the database that 411 operators would
> > consult to answer your request for a phone number in a second or
> > two.  Database lookup in a million-record or so database, in around
> > a second, on a PDP-11 in 1978.  Nice.
> > 
> > paul  
> 
> I have a distribution tape image of Mumps-11 v3.3 and a pre-built
> RL02 image which I got from the Computer Conservation  Society in the
> UK. The images are no longer available on their website. I have no
> place to make them available but if someone wants to host them I can
> make them available (total is ~8MB).

Hi, John! 

I'd be happy to host them; I'm in the CCS as it happens.

Now, about a POPS image...! :)
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Lost PDP-11 OSes?

[Bob Eager]

On Wed, 20 May 2020 23:38:08 -0400
Ray Jewhurst  wrote:

> I am trying to collect all the OSes that I can for the PDP-11 on Simh
> and I have noticed that there are a few missing.  The ones I'm
> looking for are LSX (which used to be available online but I haven't
> seen it in a few years.), PWB-Unix (which I heard is available but is
> not able to run on the simulator.), UCSB Pascal (which I haven't seen
> hide nor hair of. Also, the only Pascal I've seen is SOLO), TRIPOS
> (which I have only seen broken links even mentioning it for the
> PDP-11.) and lastly, XINU (which I have only seen tar.gz's on TUHS
> but no install instructions or disk images.).  If anyone has any
> leads on any of these, it would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ray

I thunk I have the TRIPOS sources somewhere. I'll have a dig.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Earlyish UNIX for the VAX

[Bob Eager]

And I did this for Mini-UNIX:

 http://www.tavi.co.uk/unixhistory/mini-unix.html

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Earlyish UNIX for the VAX

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 8 May 2020 09:26:10 +0100
 wrote:

> In the SIMH Software Kits archive there is 4.3-Quasijarus BSD for the
> VAX.

Yes, that's me. It goes to my website!

For interest, look at Mini-UNIX - not that many people even know about
it. I have the original paper documentation from Bell Labs.

> M0NOM

G8KDU
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Earlyish UNIX for the VAX

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 8 May 2020 09:26:10 +0100
 wrote:

> I've been doing a little research on versions of UNIX for the VAX
> architecture.
> 
>  
> 
> In the SIMH Software Kits archive there is 4.3-Quasijarus BSD for the
> VAX.
> 
> I also noted the Bell Labs paper here:
> https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/otherports/32v.pdf which I think
> refers to UNIX 32V https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX/32V.
> 
>  
> 
> Does this software survive - I appreciate if it was a Bell Labs
> release then it may never have seen the light of day?

We ran UNIX on the PDP-11 45 years ago (well, it will be 45 years in
about 6 weeks).

We moved on to a VAX, and in the early days I'm pretty sure we ran 32V
(as a university). We moved to 4.0BSD as soon as it became available.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Newbie questions about VMS for VAX

[Bob Eager]

On Wed, 6 May 2020 21:56:58 +0100
"Dave Wade"  wrote:

> > 2. About the versions of (Open)VMS. As I understand, 7.3 is the
> > newest version for VAX, and it's still rather old, but I'm okay
> > with that, and possibly with even older versions. Does the HPE
> > hobbyist program license older versions than 7.3 for the VAX? Do
> > all versions require licenses? There are various old VMS versions
> > circulating over the Internet, are they any good?  
> 
> 
> HPE will if you ask, send you a link to 7.3 if you ask. Whilst 7.3 is
> old its pretty good. If you ask they will send you Alpha & VAX
> licences.

Which unfortunately expire at the end of 2021. We hope this will be
fixed somehow.

> There are later version of VMS for Alpha. There are some
> Alpha emulators about but not as good as the alpha emulators..

ITYM 'VAX' ?
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist Licenses ?

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:27:04 -0800 (AKDT)
"James W. Laferriere"  wrote:

>   Hello Anyone ,  Has anyone contacted VSI directly about
> Hobbyist Licensing ie: sa...@vmssoftware.com ?
> 
>   While they see we have no $'s invested in their products ,
> They should see a PR function in this arena .
> 
>   Actually hoping that someone has done so .
>   Hthfys ,  JimL

There's quite a lot about this in comp.os.vms. You can access it via
Google if you don't use Usenet.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] macro11

[Bob Eager]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:32:06 +0100
Rhialto  wrote:

> Speaking of macro11: since there were no changes for two weeks, I
> made a release (called it v0.5).
> 
> -Olaf.

Can you remind us where it (and the linker) are, please?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEVgdI2KeVldPAhUYaKBdf2az8e6gFAl5/wRoACgkQKBdf2az8
e6ifpgf/Vbi5dELyBhwn0fnTAkwlB3/ABgPnbT91/Ify8FA50JD3W7/IqA2W6hOz
KyvuQxiCObPf6akkhGA80QsrujVRopBM5ynKRiejpcg4h1qnd8WxcFR11HQyUcit
tVTI24uhlmr1jLW1Hh5EFFAFNtKg+8UJ3D18Cn7dPbhjpUmIdVGhsi+bYPCIZZI+
1hRR++ptmLeNDOFPUn1gswHrTMBksmQlDDmquQPErloxn/2Mw7wYejOxw2mP/lgp
Woo9eiqaIf84HGzwsWd4229LlIih19IDYy60O+VWjqOX+hWHcIt2Y4vFlkdssgqJ
P5Flv+yF+8FaLDT3H1apILm2iQ0g2w==
=uzid
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Releasing terspy.mar - vax/vms terminal spy program

[Bob Eager]

I just looked at the sources of the SPY program I have.

It's quite small, and most of it is a driver in Macro-32.

There are only two names in the sources - it says it's based on work by
one, but written by another. The other is me - just shows how bad my
memory is.

Anyway, if anyone wants it...the ZIP file is only 13kB. The sources
have spurious Ctrl-Z characters at the end at present.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Releasing terspy.mar - vax/vms terminal spy program

[Bob Eager]

I have another called SPY, which is in FORTRAN and Macro-32.

It includes a loadable driver.

I expect it's well known, but if not I'll make it available.

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 05:56:59 +
Dan Gahlinger  wrote:

> I have a paper printout of a program called terspy.mar - which is a
> terminal spy program for vax/vms
> 
> it was written by Bob Vera, DEC, April 28, 1980
> Don't know if anyone here knows him, or knew him, I never met him or
> knew him. I've had this printout in my collection since shortly after
> the day it was written (or so).
> 
> I'd forgotten what a pain it is to scan in fan-fold DEC teletype
> printouts, the pages are too long to fit.
> 
> I've done a scan of it, but the bottom line or so of each page is
> always cut-off. I'm thinking of editing the PDF (Acrobat) and putting
> in the lines that were missed manually.
> 
> from the comments in the program:
> 
> This tool is designed to kidnap characters out of a designated
> terminal's output buffer and record them in a disk file which is
> subsequently printed out on the printer when the session is finished.
> by default, it creates a log file with the users' name with a .LOG
> extension. also by default, when the session is done, it auto-prints
> the log file, then erases it when the print is completed.
> 
> It's a little over 7 pages long (original printout)
> 
> If this is a well-known util, I won't waste my time, but I've never
> seen it in any archives. obviously you need appropriate privileges to
> use it on another user's terminal. I don't see anything that
> specifies which privileges it needs, but the comments say it's
> scanning the IRP's, which is what it says it uses to do its work.
> 
> Aside from doing scans a half-page at a time, if anyone has any
> suggestions on scanning it, I'd welcome some advice.
> 
> Dan.

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Is it possible to simulate the first Vaxen I ever used?

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:10:17 -0700
"Robert Armstrong"  wrote:

> >FUBAR is the name of a 780 CSR (in the UBA: failed unibus address
> >register);
> > perhaps it was used in the 730 as well.  
> 
>   The 730 certainly had a UBA; don?t know if had a specific "FUBAR"
> register though.  But as far as a physical bar inside the chassis
> I've never seen nor heard of anything like that.  I have a 730 in the
> garage and it doesn't have any such thing.  The 730 fit into a single
> 10-1/2" chassis anyway, so there wasn't even a specific cabinet or
> rack dedicated to the 730.  And the 730 chassis was basically the
> same box as was used for the 11/44, but with a somewhat different
> backplane.
> 
>   I suspect the "FUBAR" at Dan's high school may have been a local
> joke :)

Not at all. It existed on the 780, at the very least, so most likely
elsewhere. Mentioned in the VAX11/780 Hardware Handbook (e.g. the
1979-80 edition).

See:http://www.tavi.co.uk/FUBAR.jpg

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] PAK for VAX P.S.I.

[Bob Eager]

VAX PSI was for X25, wasn't it?

On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 07:21:45 -0700
Mark Pizzolato  wrote:

> Let's say you had the PAK(s).
> 
> You could then install the software.  Then what?
> 
> That software connected through some hardware to something outside.
> What hardware was this and what did it connect to?  I'm pretty sure
> that the hardware in question isn't simulated primarily due to the
> fact that anything it could connect to doesn't exist today
> 
> A simulated VAX Cluster can easily be constructed and it can talk to
> the outside world via TCP/IP via UCX or MultiNet.
> 
> 
> On Mar 19, 2020 7:11 AM, Peter Allan  wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> Back in the day (mid to late 1980s), I was the system manager of a
> VAXcluster. I have been recreating the experience using simh, which I
> find to be excellent. My system manager days finished with VMS 5.5-2,
> although I also have emulated systems running both earlier and later
> versions of VMS.
> 
> One of my projects is to build a virtual version of the cluster that
> I used to manage. I have PAKs though the hobbyist programme for most
> of the software that we used, but these do not include PAKs for VAX
> P.S.I. nor P.S.I.-Access. We had software that used these products to
> access the outside world.
> 
> I do have the PSI/PSI-Access software on CDs, just not the PAKs.
> 
> I have a vague memory of seeing a message somewhere saying that it
> was possible to get PAKs for these products. Does anyone know how to
> do this?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter Allan
> 
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] HPE has started emailing the final hobbyist licenses

[Bob Eager]

If it's of interest to anyone (and I appreciate you are mostly VMS
folks, as indeed am I some of the time) I did put up some stuff for
installing a late fork of 4.3BSD (which qualifies as vintage UNIX). 

 http://www.tavi.co.uk/unixhistory/quasijarus.html

And if you have an 11/03, 11/20 or similar, there's Mini-UNIX.

 http://www.tavi.co.uk/unixhistory/mini-unix.html

On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:27:55 -0400
Michael Kerpan  wrote:

> Currently, after the current hobby license expire, your options are to
> either become a pirate or to learn to love vintage Unix. Of course
> this is almost two years in the future: things could end up changing
> in that time.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 PM Michael Huff  wrote:
> 
> > To be clear: this license expires in Dec 2021? What are the options
> > for simh users after that?
> > On 3/11/2020 5:13 PM, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
> >
> > my hobbyist id is not in the pack.
> >
> > there is no renewal, this is a final license, after this, vms for
> > hobbyists is officially defunct.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > Try: https://www.grammarly.com
> > --
> > *From:* Tony Nicholson 
> > 
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 9:07:56 PM
> > *To:* Dan Gahlinger  
> > *Cc:* simh@trailing-edge.com 
> > 
> > *Subject:* Re: [Simh] HPE has started emailing the final hobbyist
> > licenses
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 09:49, Dan Gahlinger 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to know if the License authorization code is the same for
> > everyone,
> > or if they actually bothered to send everyone their own, for tracing
> > purposes.
> >
> > mine ends in 301.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hari from the HPE OpenVMS customer lab is the administrator of the
> > hobbyist program.  He once told me that he maintains the program
> > only out-of-hours and in his own time.  Without his efforts the
> > programme may have ended sooner.
> >
> > Be sure to thank him when you renew.
> >
> > The email you receive with the PAKs should have your Hobbyist ID on
> > it. These are tracked.  The final PAKs look like the authorization
> > code is a date to me (pakgened on  March 1st).
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > --
> > Tony Nicholson 
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing
> > listSimh@trailing-edge.comhttp://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] OpenVMS Hobbyist Program

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 12:34:46 +0100
Johnny Billquist  wrote:

> > is HPE going to sue individual hobbyists for copyright? I highly
> > doubt it.  
> 
> Why would they? HPE have given hobbyists licenses which will expire,
> at which point they just don't have a working license anymore. Not
> sure what HPE would sue for...

I think the context was, at some point in the future, a hobbyist using
a pirate licence.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] OpenVMS Hobbyist Program

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 7 Mar 2020 20:39:54 -0500
Michael Kerpan  wrote:

> If running without a valid license is considered an option, then
> there are ways to keep running VMS 7.3. Both a PAK generator and a
> set of pre-generated perpetual PAKs are floating around in dark
> corners of the internet. For strictly private use, odds are that HPE
> and VSI will pay just about as much attention to people running
> pirate VMS on an emulated VAX as Microsoft pays to people running
> pirate Windows 3.1 in a PC emulator: none at all.
> 
> That said, it's sad that those of us who are both interested in
> computer history and not made of money are yet again being told
> "either give up your hobby or become a pirate."

Indeed. I see no alternative for me.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] OpenVMS Hobbyist Program

[Bob Eager]

A comment from Usenet, from VSI:

"The HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses we are issuing in 2020 will be the
last set. Subsequently, HPE will not issue new HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
licenses. Attached is the final set of the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
licenses. These final licenses are valid through December 31st, 2021.
We hope that this additional validity period will enable users to plan
for the future.

Users who wish to avail of HPE OpenVMS long term licenses are encouraged to
purchase permanent licenses at standard prices. You may contact for the
same."

On Sat, 7 Mar 2020 17:37:30 -0600
Gary Lee Phillips  wrote:

> Yes, quite important seems to be an understatement. HPE is dropping
> the program, apparently because the OpenVMS product line is now the
> responsibility of VSI. But I can find no sign that VSI will continue
> the hobbyist license program in any form. Those of us with actual
> Alpha/Itanium/Vax hardware may be completely shut out?
> 
> I own two Alphas and also run Vax on Simh. This is not amusing. VSI
> appears to be focused on OpenVMS for x86 processors, which is fine if
> they can do that. But without a way to renew license keys our Alpha
> and Vax systems will be dead silicon. I don't require support or even
> patches. I just need to keep my systems running.

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Simh] OpenVMS Hobbyist Program

[Bob Eager]

Apologies if I missed this on the list, but it's quite important.

--

Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,

This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap. If
you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.

Thank you.

HPE OpenVMS team





Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
 
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.

If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
 
Thank you.
 
HPE OpenVMS team
 



___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Various

[Bob Eager]

Also not survived...

We had an NCR Elliott 4130, but when the CS degree started, the
students (four in the initial year) had a PDP-11 for various things.
One of the staff wrote an assembler AND a simulator to run on the 4130,
to reduce the need fro the real machine. It obviously helped with
debugging too.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:10:41 -0500
Paul Koning  wrote:

> > On Feb 14, 2020, at 3:03 AM, Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:
> > 
> > Paul Koning wrote:  
> >> It was pretty weird in that it ran a PDP-11 simulator (on the
> >> PDP-11) so students could write something approximating bare-metal
> >> software but get some debugging help if things go wrong.
> >> 
> >> They moved that course to CDC, and I helped write the analogous
> >> thing for our Cyber (a Cyber emulator on Cyber).  
> > 
> > Those sound marvellous.  I don't suppose either of them has
> > survived?  
> 
> No, unfortunately not.
> 
>   paul
> 
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Various

[Bob Eager]

...of so many 'chips'!

I agree though. Thanks, Al.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 14:44:38 -0500
Timothe Litt  wrote:

> Thanks.  Me too. 
> 
> Might be a regional dialect - like "Hi" vs. "Hey" or "labor" vs.
> "labour"  Not worth arguing, especially since Al has been the savior
> (saviour) of so many bits :-)
> 
> On 13-Feb-20 14:38, Bob Eager wrote:
> > It was 'chad' back in 1971 when I was using punched cards.
> >
> > On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 08:37:15 -0800
> > Al Kossow  wrote:
> >
> >>>  "chad bin full"  
> >>
> >> "chips" not "chad" no matter what the Y2000 revisionists insist on
> >> saying.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Simh mailing list
> >> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Various

[Bob Eager]

It was 'chad' back in 1971 when I was using punched cards.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 08:37:15 -0800
Al Kossow  wrote:

> >  "chad bin full"  
> 
> 
> "chips" not "chad" no matter what the Y2000 revisionists insist on
> saying.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Fwd: V6 on PDP-11 and 4.0BSD on Vax - automated installs now available

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:32:09 +
"Stigall, BJ - Junk Mail"  wrote:

> Do keep in mind that "docker" implies "Linux only". It only works on
> Macs because they invisibly add a VM that runs Linux inside. For
> people whose home operating system is any of the BSDs, or anything
> else, it is useless.

But of course, on BSD you would use a jail.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Simh] SIMH files

[Bob Eager]

Hi Bob

I have been using SIMH for years!

I have just updated to 3.11, and I noticed mention of the HP
simulators, but files for those are not in the obvious places. Do we
need to download those from elsewhere?

I also noticed on this page:

 http://simh.trailing-edge.com/

That the link to:

 http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simtoolsv310-0/

doesn't work. I can see a set of tools but that particular directory
isn't there. It's no big deal but I thought you should know.

Once again, thanks for all the work.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] EXT : VAXstation 4000 Model 60

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 23:41:13 +0200
Johnny Billquist  wrote:

> On 2019-07-12 23:36, Bob Eager wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:59:49 -0700
> > Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
> >   
> >> On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 11:27 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:  
> >>> As far as I am aware, it was only some models in the 3100 series
> >>> that used the shorter SCSI commands in the boot rom, which caused
> >>> issues with the boot disk. However, I'm not sure that exact thing
> >>> is the problem. You might very well have some display issues that
> >>> pop up in the boot monitor, even though the system will boot
> >>> perfectly fine from a larger disk.  
> >>
> >> On the older VS3100 systems (without large disk boot support),
> >> things would boot fine on larger disks as long as the pieces of OS
> >> code that are loaded in the early stages of the boot all happen to
> >> be located early enough in the disk drive.  Since you can't
> >> guarantee that all the needed files would be located early in the
> >> drive large disks were "not bootable".  
> > 
> > I fixed this by making the disks artificially smaller (by changing
> > the firmware tables on the disk).  
> 
> But then I assume the disk appeared smaller also at later stages. 
> Essentially you got yourself a smaller disk.

Indeed. I only did it for the boot drive, of course. And has external
disks too.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] EXT : VAXstation 4000 Model 60

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:59:49 -0700
Mark Pizzolato  wrote:

> On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 11:27 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> > As far as I am aware, it was only some models in the 3100 series
> > that used the shorter SCSI commands in the boot rom, which caused
> > issues with the boot disk. However, I'm not sure that exact thing
> > is the problem. You might very well have some display issues that
> > pop up in the boot monitor, even though the system will boot
> > perfectly fine from a larger disk.  
> 
> On the older VS3100 systems (without large disk boot support), things
> would boot fine on larger disks as long as the pieces of OS code that
> are loaded in the early stages of the boot all happen to be located
> early enough in the disk drive.  Since you can't guarantee that all
> the needed files would be located early in the drive large disks were
> "not bootable".  

I fixed this by making the disks artificially smaller (by changing the
firmware tables on the disk).
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Help with loading vax82b zip file into simh/vms

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 04 Apr 2019 13:37:03 -0700
Ron Young  wrote:

> Thanks... Is there any way to change the file attributes to match the
> var records? When I unzip the files on vms the length bytes show up
> as characters.
> 
> This is just for my future info, I wrote a Linux c program to doe the
> conversion.

Without documentation in front of me, I suggest:

  SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=something  file 

probably

  SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=RFM:VAR file
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[Bob Eager]

I'm pretty sure I used VMS CONVERT to fix the licence file.

Another easy way is to use FTP, if you have a server available.

This is vaguely how I did it:

Get an existing file that is a VMS text file:

 $ ANAL/RMS/FDL/OUTPUT=XYZ  textfile

This creates a file called XYZ.FDL that describes the records in the
text file (just a typical text file). It needs to have lines as long as
those in the file to be converted, or just edit XYZ.FDL to change the
max record size.

 $ CONVERT/FDL=XYZ.FDL  inputfile outputfile

(the first being the file off your CD, and the second the converted
version)

My memory is hazy so you might have to fiddle a bit.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:02:24 -0500
Brian  wrote:

> On 12/17/18 8:44 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote:
> > Brian schreef op 17-12-2018 om 14:28
> > 
> > [snip]  
> >> I really don't want to have to enter all the licence data
> >> interactively, or fix a couple of thousand line endings in the
> >> editor! There must be SOME way of getting the file onto a new
> >> setup?
> >>
> >> Thanks for any assistance,
> >>
> >> Brian.  
> > 
> > What usually works for me:
> > 
> >  * open the license command file  file in your mail program / in a
> >    notepad on your Linux host.
> >  * Open a TPU editor session on your OPA0 simh console terminal
> >  * Copy/Paste the License file text into the TPU editor window.
> > 
> > If you get buffer overflows on VMS, try it with just the TCP/IP
> > license (called UCX for hysterical reasons), then setup IP
> > networking and ftp on VMS.
> >   
> 
> OK, thanks, I'll give it a try later today and report back. If anybody
> can tell me in simple terms, though, I would like to understand why
> the route of going via an ISO didn't work. Is it not possible to
> transfer text files to the VAX other than via cut-and-paste without
> the line endings getting mangled?
> 
> Brian.
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] how to set language number for VAX VMB

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:07:53 -0800
"Ron Young"  wrote:

>   I'm playing with the latest version of the microvax 3900 and
>   4.3BSD-Quasijarus0c and would like to set default language
>   in VMB to 5 (us english). If I remember correctly there used
>   to be a "set language 5" command to do this on real hardware.
> 
>   Any idea how to do this on simh?

That will happen automagically if you set up the NVRAM. 

You might like to look at this anyway, if playing with Quasijarus:

 http://www.tavi.co.uk/unixhistory/quasijarus.html

Note the comments about NVRAM at Stage 3.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] PDP10: KS10 console lights?

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2018 23:17:56 -0400
Clem Cole  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 1:52 AM Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:
> 
> > Timothe Litt wrote:
> > > > I have checked the KS10 instruction set.  It doesn't have a
> > > > DATAO PI, instruction.  However that particular opcode isn't in
> > > > used, so it's just a UUO.  This is also the case for ITS
> > > > microcode.  Before I start working on anything, I'd like to ask
> > > > if it would be OK to repurpose this opcode for its traditional
> > > > use?
> > >
> > > Neither the KL nor the KS use DATAO PI,. I don't have a problem
> > > with implementing it for the KS. It would need to act like any IO
> > > instruction - MUUO in user mode, functional in Exec and with
> > > User-In-Out.
> >
> > Of course.
> >
> > The next problem is, how to access USB from SIMH?  I have something
> > that works in Linux.  I checked SIMH to see if there's a built in
> > USB API that works across operating system, but I didn't see any.
> 
> I believe that device is using an FTDI chip set, which
> Linux/MacOS/Winders etc will see as a dynamic serial port that
> appears at attach time.   You use open it and used traditional read
> and write.  FWIW:  If you grab the sources to the Arduino IDE and
> look at the interface code in there - it knows rules on how the port
> names will be generated in the different OSses which will be thr one
> tricky part, since the rules.

The problem can also be (in at least FreeBSD) that the order of
enumeration of the USB ports can change depending on what else is
plugged in. This means that there is no consistent 'serial' port name.

I solved this by setting up a symbolic link to the correct port and
opening that in the program.

The symlink is generated (on FreeBSD) by an entry in devd.conf, which
detects the correct USB port by serial number, then matches that with
the 'serial' port name using the sysctl entries. Sounds complicated but
it's all scripted. One would hope that other systems can do something
similar.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] PDP-11 MARK

[Bob Eager]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:00:05 +0200
Rhialto  wrote:

> Most overviews of the instruction set do not even explain what it
> does. I only found it in the older ones, such as in the PDP 11-40
> Processor Handbook (page 4-61, pdf page 107).

I remember considering using it when writing a compiler for the 11. In
the end I decided it was more trouble than it was worth.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEVgdI2KeVldPAhUYaKBdf2az8e6gFAltjaMsACgkQKBdf2az8
e6iYggf7BNhIhzvnAz6b+XdUJuPr10IhT6XRiBjbQ/WO3zJaFclPel0hHxgVguOf
R08RpGJKU1lzsDcSj8R+0J0kgTnhOgqU3GttOXqXg/e4wJtAGS5a20ZGqHil7fVs
SP1TGamphqoOJ3wbTJkD41S1xlrznCVkDcojR3r00CyCZGHY61sE2Q4ZE6iS1QmH
v9HXa6GfnlvLu4VWlAde8oFG3cLPQP7Eq/bYPeOSMMivjFmg6j8LOR+A8KyA0Wdx
1FrA/oFCQswjlQD54LR+8bwcfRMjGcBmHgDyVJxsDns+6Wc6uZQiNIiRb1JSgZqe
wcCs52MnUP7Sj0A8VxCKUYJTwpJDyQ==
=UVIP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] IMP interfaces

[Bob Eager]

On Wed, 07 Mar 2018 10:01:08 +
Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have started writing an IMP interface as used with the MIT-AI/ML/MC
> KA10 and KL10 machines.  (MIT-DMS used another interface created by
> Bob Metcalfe.)  I'm looking to add this to Rich Cornwell's KA10
> simulator which isn't yet ready to merge into mainline SIMH.
> 
> I'm hoping that the interface code can be kept separate, and that a
> generic IMP emulator can be put in its own file.  Are there any other
> SIMH machines that could benefit from having an IMP attached?

Presumably the Honeywell 516?
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] [SPAM?] TOPS-10 question

[Bob Eager]

I'll keep an eye on this! The last time I built Essex BCPL was in
summer 1974. I was peripherally involved with the compiler as part of
my Master's dissertation, and remember finding a fairly major error in
the register allocation algorithm!

I later implemented the same compiler on an ICL 4130. I had to overlay
it to make it fit.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:44:23 +
Quentin North  wrote:

> Yes, I am building Essex BCPL and I have the MUD source.
> Unfortunately I never used tops-10 except to play MUD in the early
> 80s, so completely have no sense of common understanding of utilities
> etc which is probably a bit of a disadvantage. Still, I seem to be
> making progress. 
> > On 21 Feb 2018, at 06:39, Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:
> > 
> > Quentin North wrote:  
> >> Im trying to get the BCPL compiler on TOPS-10 going  
> > 
> > Which one?  It would be interesting to have Essex BCPL and see if
> > it's possible to build the Trubshaw & Bartle MUD.  
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] pdp11 i/o addressing

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 14:51:27 -0500
Clem Cole  wrote:

> curmudgeon warning below.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Ethan Dicks 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I started on a VAX with 2MB of physical memory in a 16MB physical
> > address space but with 4GB virtual addresses.  Switching over to the
> > PDP-11 was odd from that.
> >
> 
> ?Sigh... I fear that is a fault of your education.
> 
> If you ask many (younger) programmers what VM was designed to solve
> (particularly those that never memory constrained systems such as you
> get in 8, 12, 16 or 18 bit processors), they will tell you 'So can
> have more addressable memory.'?  The problem is said programmers
> never experienced or learned about overlays.   Conceptually, a PDP-11
> can allow a lot more than the 64Ks physical limit by 'swapping out'
> and 'overlaying parts' and calling subroutines through
> 'thunks' [which to quote my old friend Paul Hilfinger from page 427
> of his book:  *"an onomatopoetic reference to the sound made by a
> pointer as it moves instantaneously up and down the stack"*]. A
> process has be allowed to be larger that 64K, but only 64K (128K on
> seperate I/D systems) in the set up memory maps at a time.If you
> need to call a subroutine to (optionally) bring in the routines and
> its data into memory if it is not already there, and then set up the
> map to point the routine in question.
> 
> BTW: If you play with BSD 2.11 or the like, it uses overlays to allow
> programs to grow in size.   This was needed as people started to try
> to move features from 4BSD and later back to the PDP-11.   At this
> point, I believe you must have what was sometimes referred too as
> '17th address bit
> - i.e. I/D space which gives you 128K bytes of mapped in memory at a
> time. But you can (with care) let you programs grow.
> 
> The point is that VM is a mechanism* to automatically manage
> overlays*. The implementation of this management gets easier if there
> are more address bits than physical address bit, but that is the key
> item that is happening.
> 
> Sadly, since people stopped learning about overlay management, the
> context of what it was doing under the covers was lost.

When I teach virtual memory, I start by talking about the 'old days'
and overlays. I remember Overlay Description Language on the PDP-11!
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Bob Eager]

I'm wondering if the Pascal source has picked up spurious characters
such as ^M on its travels.

On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 06:19:06 +
Dan Gahlinger  wrote:

> I found a hello world pascal example online for vms,
> so at least that much I can get working.
> 
> however, all the docs online are not so useful for programming itself.
> my code has input and output from the terminal and from files.
> the hello program uses: program hello(output);
> so not sure how to do in and out from the terminal.
> tried googling examples but no such luck beyond hello world.
> 
> it might be easier for me to port to vax basic, I used to be an
> expert at that, many moons ago.
> 
> Dan.
> 
> From: Simh  on behalf of Jon Elson
>  Sent: February 7, 2018 9:25 PM
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to
> vax pascal?
> 
> On 02/07/2018 05:57 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> > [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to
> >vax pascal?
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > 
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
> > using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
> > I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
> > but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
> > and I suspect things like types and records and case statements
> > wont work either.
> >
> > anyone have any ideas?
> Umm, I just looked back at some Pascal code I had on VAX
> Pascal, and it DEFINITELY has writeln statements in it.
> This is such basic Pascal syntax, I can't imagine that did
> not work.  But, maybe you have to enable some library or
> Pascal "unit" to use those functions.
> 
> Jon
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] NetHack game

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 23:41:48 +
Dan Gahlinger  wrote:

> There are other games ? larn, moria, imoria, umoria, hack and rogue.

All of those exist today. I see they are all available as packages on
FreeBSD here, for example.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] PDP for beginners

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 11:41:38 -
"Dave Wade"  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Pär
> > Moberg
> > Sent: 03 February 2018 02:26
> > To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> > Subject: [Simh] PDP for beginners
> > 
> > I am looking to put up a PDP-# machine to play with. What machine
> > and OS should I use. I am looking for simple/beginner system, or as
> > beginner it got.  
> 
> I think I would start with a PDP-8. NO telnet terminal. Simple OS,
> lots of software and support. If you want blinken lights try one of
> these:-
> 
> http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-8-get-one
> 
> its SIMH with a nice panel

I was going to suggest the same thing. Be warned that there's quite a
lot of soldering in a PiDP-8 - although not as much as an SBC-6120! (I
have both)
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Crowther's Adventure game

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 03 Feb 2018 00:37:25 -0500
Phil Budne  wrote:

> > Last year Eric Raymond (The Cathedral And The Bazaar guy) and a few
> > others took the ugly machine translated C code from the last known
> > Fortran version and rewrote/structured it into something that is
> > much more readable and maintainable.  
> 
> To (apparently) quote the new version(*): "Well, that was remarkably
> pointless."
> 
> To me, a GREAT part of the magic of the original game is that it makes
> a silk purse using a sow's ear (and my first two paying programming
> jobs were using FORTRAN, and then working on a FORTRAN compiler)!
> 
> I recall thinking the tables (back before we called them data
> structures) were a thing of beauty when I first saw them.
> 
> (*) http://www.catb.org/~esr/open-adventure/notes.html

I agree about the silk purse comment.

I have a copy of 'ed' in FORTRAN; it was very useful sometimes.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] BCPL (was Re: BLISS and C)

[Bob Eager]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:24:06 -0500
Timothe Litt <l...@ieee.org> wrote:

> On 29-Jan-18 18:07, Bob Eager wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:48:22 -0500
> > Timothe Litt <l...@ieee.org> wrote:
> >  
> > > On 29-Jan-18 17:45, Dave Wade wrote:  
> [snip]
> > > I seem to remember that there was a BCPL for TOPS-10 in the DECUS
> > > library.  
> >
> > I have one here - the Pete Gardner compiler. I did my MSc
> > dissertation on a portable version, and indeed found one or two
> > bugs in the TOPS-10 one!  
> Please get it on Bitsavers, unless it's already there or there's an
> intractable IP restriction.  (Contact Al Kossow)

I'll need to check with the person I got it from, but yes...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEVgdI2KeVldPAhUYaKBdf2az8e6gFAlpvsVMACgkQKBdf2az8
e6h94wf9FFmUe5z/pQFJTj1IpC258tDQmk09Nnf1fkyHr0XbDTwyue0xGHbordGd
OJEs+2My4YPujBxEXLfOReZvV3l3hdeV7kB9UlN728tvMOhSWh79MqopfaeLdVCX
FCtZ0daRjTcjfFE+oARlGiDT/ymgtICdY3puGr83HyKsNlTD7BxojVAQS80gj9Mi
mDyOXLsLOyDBOrLE3IsEUtjYHeN33iraCZmBBAHZULf4IaVn/exVrAwy8bBKoRl7
x+DXdRUB310Bkvcw3cE4nMKTv1rSyX/78SWUyvd4AAqb1acdjOMXY1GAlAtj7z0/
HE6O0DuxHx6KSE7IgAxQVfC2Qw3RAw==
=0SYY
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] BLISS and C

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:05:01 -0500
Clem Cole  wrote:

> One can argue, why did Ken not just build something more like BCPL
> instead of B?  I can not say, maybe the brevity of { } from PL/1 was
> more attractive than the Algol BEGIN/END style?

BCPL was, in any case, using $( $) and (later) { }. It never used
BEGIN/END.

And the major drawback of BCPL (which I love) was that it was word
oriented. Most machine architectures were not (OK, PDP-10...) One had
to use contortions, and a special % operator, to access bytes
efficiently.

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] BLISS ( was Re: 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access))

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:55:48 +0100
Johnny Billquist  wrote:

> Heh. I've had similar experiences with BLISS-16. I've learned a trick
> or two looking at the code generated, and it can do some rather neat 
> tricks. Definitely impressive code generated. Not seen that level
> from any other PDP-11 compiler.

How many people have read this book? (I have it)

It's about the design of an early BLISS compiler.

 http://amzn.eu/irCsXhi 
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38

[Bob Eager]

I know I've hacked larger SCSI disks in the past, for the 3100. I made
them report a smaller size so that they would boot.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:35:24 -0700
khandy21yo  wrote:

> The MicroVAX 3100 had a bug in the boot Rom that limited it to a
> 1.06? Disk. I don't know if it also occurred on other systems.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Larry Baker 
> Date: 1/25/18  7:17 PM  (GMT-07:00) To: heal...@avanthar.com Cc: SIMH
>  Subject: Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 168,
> Issue 38 We ran into this on a real VAX when we added a 20GB SCSI
> disk, as I recall.  Either VAX/VMS or the hardware (I think it was
> VAX/VMS) only looks at the low-order 24 bits of the disk size.  So,
> our 20GB disk was viewed as a 3+GB drive on the VAX.  Alpha/VMS has
> no problem handling larger drives.  I think I've used 100GB drives on
> an Alpha.  I know I have a 72GB and a 50GB drive on our Alpha now.
> 
> Larry Baker
> US Geological Survey
> 650-329-5608
> ba...@usgs.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25 Jan 2018, at 6:04:06 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 18:01:41 -0800
> From: Zane Healy 
> To: Dennis Boone 
> Cc: simh 
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VAX Tape Emulation?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> On Jan 25, 2018, at 2:22 PM, Dennis Boone  wrote:
> 
> If you're venturing into unix technology, it's possible to mount nfs
> shares on the VMS machines.  Then you can use BACKUP to write save
> sets onto the nfs share.  There seems to be some care needed with ADF
> metadata.  Multinet seems to write this to a hidden file or
> subdirectory; not sure what UCX/TCPIP do.
> 
> I actually looked into this option around 2008 (for the same Alpha).
>  If I remember correctly I ran into a problem on the VMS side of the
> file size limit (I have the same disk size now I had in 2008).  This
> can work, but you have to break larger disks up into chunks.  I?m
> hoping to avoid that, with the solution I?m looking at.
> 
> Zane
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bob Eager]

If you know how to handle magtapes on RSTS, you can make a tape image.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 21:43:03 +
Bryan Davies  wrote:

> That's all handy information.  When I've done it I'll make a DSK file
> so others can mount it directly into Simh.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> On 23 Jan 2018 21:39, "Christian Brunschen" 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:
> >
> >> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you
> >> could either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an
> >> editor.
> >>
> >
> > The correct tense actually seems to be "has":
> >
> > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
> >
> >> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini-
> >> or microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device
> >> control to general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit
> >> programs are available for the PDP-11.
> >>
> >> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment
> >> Corporation PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS,
> >> P/OS, and (not a DEC OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian
> >> Nelson of the University of Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11
> >> assembly language, Macro-11. Separate programs, listed below, are
> >> available for other PDP-11 operating systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
> >>
> >> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
> >>  in the kermit/b
> >>  subdirectory as k11*.mac,
> >> and you can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems
> >> and configurations inkermit/bin/
> >> , as k11*.tsk or k11*.sav.
> >> If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
> >> THIS . There are also
> >> various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written
> >> Macro-11, Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with
> >> all the Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".
> >>
> > :)
> >
> >
> >> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
> >>
> >
> > So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it
> > was then!
> >
> >
> >> -Mark
> >>
> >
> > // Christian
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target
> >>> machine?
> >>>
> >>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
> >>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>  j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>  HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
> 
> 
> 
>  On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning 
>  wrote:
> 
>  SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
> 
>  There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via
>  paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape
>  reader.  That's not as good an answer for binaries though it
>  could be made to work.
> 
>  Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you
>  have a program that can write disk images in a format the target
>  OS knows.  That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS
>  File Exchange) program to do this.  There's an older version
>  written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For the former,
>  look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the
>  latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>  documentation for both in those respective directories.
>  (Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version,
>  would be appreciated.)
> 
> 
>  There?s always kermit?
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Simh mailing list
> >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Simh mailing list
> >> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>
> >
> >

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh

[Bob Eager]

There's a version for 2.11BSD here; that ought to compile OK...

ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/Distributions/UCB/2.11BSD_patch277/tape2.tar


On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 22:07:49 +0100
Johnny Billquist  wrote:

> I bet that would be written in some ANSI C, for which you won't find
> a C compiler for V7...
> 
>Johnny
> 
> On 2017-11-08 03:09, khandy21yo wrote:
> > Does V7 require a special version, or can you just download less
> > from gnu.org?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
> > 
> >  Original message 
> > From: Mark Abene 
> > Date: 11/7/17 6:46 PM (GMT-07:00)
> > To: Will Senn 
> > Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> > Subject: Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7
> > in simh
> > 
> > I personally don't recall there ever being a less for v7. more, ex,
> > vi, and csh were on a tape image of UCB tools, if you can find that.
> > 
> > -Mark
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Will Senn  > > wrote:
> > 
> > On 11/7/17 2:45 PM, Clem Cole wrote:  
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Clem Cole  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> You need to convert the foo.tar file to a foo.tap before
> >> simh's mag tape reader will understand it.
> >>
> >>
> >> ?1.) ?
> >> gunzip 1bsd.tar.gz
> >> 2
> >> ?.)
> >> enblock <1bsd.tar >
> >> ?1bsd
> >> .tap
> >> ?
> >> ?3.) ?in simh: att mt0 1bsd.tap
> >> ?4.) in unix:  ?tar vxfb /dev/rmt0 ...
> >>  
> > Thanks, Clem. Now I'm getting somewhere!
> > 
> > I converted to a tap file (lo and behold, I wrote a perl script
> > that did this for the silly thing 2 years ago) and ran it. Then
> > attached the tap to simh and in v7:
> > 
> > # tar xvfb /dev/rmt0
> > Invalid blocksize. (Max 20)
> > 
> > hmm... that doesn't sound good, let's try it another way:
> > 
> > # tar xv0
> > tar: ashell/ - cannot create
> > x ashell/cont.a, 114488 bytes, 224 tape blocks
> > x ashell/READ_ME, 825 bytes, 2 tape blocks
> > # ls -ld ashell
> > drwxrwxr-x 2 root   64 Dec 31 22:18 ashell
> > # ls ashell
> > READ_ME
> > cont.a
> > # find . -name "more*" -a -print
> > #
> > ...
> > 
> > It's coming back to me now, but oh so slowly, why is it
> > complaining about cannot create all the while creating the folder?
> > Also, darn! I was hoping more would be in there somewhere. Anybody
> > know where the more or less pager source code might be for v7?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Will
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462  7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982
> > BAAF
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com 
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >   
> 
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] EXT :Re: OpenBSD on Simh VAX 3.8-1 - Segmentation fault

[Bob Eager]

As an aside, I'm the maintainer of the simh package on FreeBSD.

I've stuck at 3.9, again because of the ongoing development of 4.0. If
there is a stable version I can grab, I'll do a 4.x package.

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:56:52 -0600
Gary Lee Phillips  wrote:

> A short answer to Dave's question. I am running Linux Mint, but not
> the very latest version. I imagine the most recent version does have
> 3.9 in it. Since 4.0 is still marked "beta" it is probably not
> included.
> 
> Further details: Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu which in turn is
> derived from Debian. If packages are upgraded at the head of the
> stream, it is at least supposed to "trickle down" to the dependent
> distributions. The differences from Debian to Ubuntu to Mint are
> largely related to user interfaces rather than to actual software
> packages, as I understand it. So if upgraded versions get into
> Debian, they will appear in subsequent releases of the descendents.
> 
> I confess I've grown lazy in my old age here. Mint issues LTS (long
> term support) versions that are supported for up to five years now.
> Since most of what I do is not bleeding edge, I've stopped rushing to
> upgrade the entire OS every time a new version comes out. I'm running
> 17.1 of Mint here, and I believe they are up to 19.x now.
> 
> Including concise "cookbook" style instructions is always useful *if*
> they can be counted on to work. That can be the rub. I fully
> understand that developers can't always test everything on every
> possible hardware and software platform.  Mark's succinct directions
> are great, but would be even better if a list of environments in
> which they have been tested were to be attached.
> 
> As a negative example, I recently tried someone's "concise"
> instructions for building an emulated environment to run/test Android
> apps on Linux. I know Android developers do this regularly, and often
> even do their development on Linux. However, these instructions were
> a disaster. They may have worked on some specific system, but they
> exploded here and I'm still picking out bits of debris that were left
> all over the file system.
> 
> --Gary
> 
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Hittner, David T [US] (MS) <
> david.hitt...@ngc.com> wrote:
> 
> > So two follow on action items, now that the problem seems to be
> > solved:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) How can we work with this Linux vendor to provide a baseline
> > SIMH 4.0 package instead of the older SIMH 3.8-1 package?
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) Should the instructions for downloading and building the latest
> > SIMH that Mark provided be included in the FAQ (under Linux hosts)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?

[Bob Eager]

Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later.

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +
Peter Allan  wrote:

> Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new
> territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982
> when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last
> version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If
> I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.)
> 
> However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by
> using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive
> has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real
> system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no
> density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference
> between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter Allan
> 
> 
> On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan 
> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of
> > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past
> >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.
> >>
> >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two
> >> ways around this:
> >>
> >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use
> >>$MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a
> >>(RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $
> >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as
> >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the
> >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh
> >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an
> >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this
> >> also worked sometimes.
> >>
> >> HTH
> >>
> >> /Wilm
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:
> >>
> >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an
> >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However,
> >>> I am having a problem.
> >>>
> >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my
> >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape
> >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.
> >>>
> >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image
> >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0
> >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the
> >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process
> >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape.
> >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors.
> >>>
> >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from
> >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better
> >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise
> >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that
> >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk
> >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is
> >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the
> >>> first place.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Peter Allan
> >>>
> >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:
> >>>
> >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you
> >>> can get to it):
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I
> >>> reconstructed
> >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries.
> >>> The dates
> >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.
> >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point.
> >>>
> >>> Matt
> >>> ___
> >>> Simh mailing list
> >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com 
> >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Wonderful!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone
> >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> /Wilm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Simh mailing list
> >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com 
> >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> 

Re: [Simh] An abandoned piece of K C

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 22:14:42 -0700
Leo Broukhis  wrote:

> https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/q/4965/4025
> 
> 
> In the UNIX V7 version of the C language, there were the /\ (min) and
> the \/ (max) operators.

As an aside, many will know that C is based on B, and B was based on
BCPL.

I used BCPL a *lot*. The logical AND operator in BCPL could be written
as:

  AND
  &
  /\

and logical OR could be written as:

  LOGOR
  |
  \/

Perhaps someone decided it would be confusing.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] VAX 8600: Can't boot Quasijarus (tape or disk)

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 01:23:27 +0200
Dario Niedermann <da...@darioniedermann.it> wrote:

> Il 23/09/2017 alle 00:55, Bob Eager ha scritto:
> 
> > 'boot tq0' is surely not correct. You do 'boot cpu' and
> > then specify the boot device in a console command.  
> 
> 'boot cpu' was my first try (because it's in the *.ini files provided
> at ) but the emulator says "Command not allowed", just as
> it does with 'boot tq0'. `vax8600' is part of SimH.
> 

That's a newer simulator than the one I've used, then. I only use the
3900 one.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] VAX 8600: Can't boot Quasijarus (tape or disk)

[Bob Eager]

Oh, hang on. 'boot tq0' is surely not correct. You do 'boot cpu' and
then specify the boot device in a console command.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 00:10:12 +0200
Dario Niedermann  wrote:

> Hello! I'm running "VAX 8600 simulator V4.0-0 Beta" (git commit id:
> c8a420ad) on a Linux/x86_64 host. I've installed 4.3BSD Quasijarus
> on an empty RA90-sized disk image, following the instructions at:
> 
>   
> 
> But I could never get the VAX 8600 emulator to boot...
> 
> From TQ0, attached to the .tap file provided at the site, emulator
> says "Command not allowed" when I give 'boot tq0'. 'sho tq all'
> returns "Controller is not initialized", while 'sho tq' outputs:
> 
> --
> TQ  TU81 (180MB), address=2013F940-2013F943, no vector, BR5, 4
> units
>   TQ0   attached to /home/ndr/lib/emu/quastape.tap, read only,
> write locked, SIMH format
> capacity=188MB
> --
> 
> Is this due to the .tap file being (probably) made with the
> MicroVAX 3900 emulator?
> 
> Issuing 'boot rq0', the emulator's output is:
> 
> --
> Loading boot code from internal vmb.exe
> loading boot
> ra(0,0,0,34): bad adaptor number
> boot failed
> --
> 
> Is it because I used the MicroVAX 3900 emulator to install BSD on the
> virtual ra0?
> 
> TIA for any help...
> 
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] VAX 8600: Can't boot Quasijarus (tape or disk)

[Bob Eager]

The first question I have is: what is this 8600 simulator? Is it SIMH,
or someone else's emulator?

 On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 00:10:12 +0200
Dario Niedermann  wrote:

> Hello! I'm running "VAX 8600 simulator V4.0-0 Beta" (git commit id:
> c8a420ad) on a Linux/x86_64 host. I've installed 4.3BSD Quasijarus
> on an empty RA90-sized disk image, following the instructions at:
> 
>   
> 
> But I could never get the VAX 8600 emulator to boot...
> 
> From TQ0, attached to the .tap file provided at the site, emulator
> says "Command not allowed" when I give 'boot tq0'. 'sho tq all'
> returns "Controller is not initialized", while 'sho tq' outputs:
> 
> --
> TQ  TU81 (180MB), address=2013F940-2013F943, no vector, BR5, 4
> units
>   TQ0   attached to /home/ndr/lib/emu/quastape.tap, read only,
> write locked, SIMH format
> capacity=188MB
> --
> 
> Is this due to the .tap file being (probably) made with the
> MicroVAX 3900 emulator?
> 
> Issuing 'boot rq0', the emulator's output is:
> 
> --
> Loading boot code from internal vmb.exe
> loading boot
> ra(0,0,0,34): bad adaptor number
> boot failed
> --
> 
> Is it because I used the MicroVAX 3900 emulator to install BSD on the
> virtual ra0?
> 
> TIA for any help...
> 
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Fwd: retargetable assembler

[Bob Eager]

The term for what he's after is a meta-assembler. I was looking at
these about 40 years ago!

Not much around these days, but look at:

  http://metasm.cr0.org/

On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 20:54:14 -0400
Bob Supnik  wrote:

> Guy is looking to build a Whirlwind simulator, eventually.
> 
> I don't know of any assemblers like that. All the cross-assemblers
> I've seen are purpose built, nowadays mostly in Python.
> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  retargetable assembler
> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:38:08 -0400
> From: Guy Fedorkow 
> To:   Bob Supnik 
> 
> 
> 
> hi Bob,
>    I'm continuing to explore the Whirlwind world, one tiny step at a
> time. I thought I'd look around for retargetable cross-assemblers and
> disassemblers that might work with the machine's instruction set...
> this must come up in the simh world...  do you have a favorite
> package?
> 
>    Thanks
> /guy fedorkow
> 
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Adding storage to vax running 4.3BSD

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 22:37:59 +0200
Johnny Billquist  wrote:

> On 2017-05-11 15:34, Paul Koning wrote:
> >  
> >> On May 11, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Jason Stevens
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Ah now that makes more sense!
> >>
> >> On May 11, 2017 5:11:34 AM GMT+08:00, Alan Perry
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Problem solved. Apparently this kernel doesn't know about RA82s. I
> >> changed them to RA81 and it worked fine.
> >>
> >> alan  
> >
> > Yikes.  The whole point of MSCP was to make the software not care
> > about device sizes or geometry.  It's amazing to see Unix get it so
> > badly wrong.  
> 
> True. However, it isn't actually the geometry that cause the Unix
> messup here, but the fact that Unix divided disks into partitions. So
> it needed to know where each partition started. And before
> disklabels, it was hardcoded per disk type.

The origin of the partitioning goes back to the introduction of the
RP03.

UNIX had been written as a 16 bit system, and when we got ours (1975)
it was on RK05s, which only had about 5000 blocks. We moved on to
RP02s, which were again OK, as they were only about 40,000 blocks, and
that number fitted into a 16 bit unsigned integer.

All of UNIX was built round 16 bit values, and it was a major change to
adapt to anything larger. But then the RP03 arrived - around 80,000
blocks; too big.

The solution - minimal work - was to partition the disk into two fixed
pieces (virtual RP02s if you like) at the driver level, and present the
pieces as separate disks to the rest of the system. Very little else
needed modification, although the whole disk was exposed as another
device.

One thing that did have to be fixed was the 'seek' system call, which
couldn't seek over the whole disk as it only handled 16 bits. This was
needed for low level operations on the disk. The solution was to have a
'long seek' system call, which took a bigger offset value. That
survives to this day as 'lseek'.

This kludge was 'justified' as a good way to divide functionality of
the disk, but it was really a kludge!
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Adding storage to vax running 4.3BSD

[Bob Eager]

If you look through those instructions I posted a link to, you'll see
how to do a disklabel.

On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:41:01 -0700
Alan Perry  wrote:

> I have tried to run newfs on partition c and it fails, complaining
> about the lack of a partition table.
> 
> > On May 10, 2017, at 07:29, Jason Stevens
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > If Im remembering right, straight 4.3 pre-dates the labels, it's a
> > hard coded partition types in the drivers at this point.
> > 
> > If you don't care, just use the 0c devices aka 'whole disk' ... or
> > I recall that working well enough.
> >   
> >> --
> >> From:Alan Perry
> >> Sent:Wednesday, May 10, 2017 12:57 AM
> >> To:simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> Subject:[Simh] Adding storage to vax running 4.3BSD
> >> 
> >> What are the steps for adding storage to a SIMH vax (vax750, to be 
> >> specific) running 4.3BSD? I created disk image files on the host
> >> OS of the proper size (for RA82s) and attached them through
> >> the .ini file. However, they don't have partition tables and this
> >> version of BSD doesn't seem to have a tool for creating them. So,
> >> how do I put partition tables on the ra82 disk images?
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> 
> >> alan
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> Simh mailing list
> >> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>   
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Idea for a Simh guide

[Bob Eager]

I have a copy of the old Zortech C compiler, with a royalty free DOS
extender.

I did once build a program with it, that used 32 bit code and about
20MB of data space. It worked fine on my 32MB PC of the day.

On Wed, 10 May 2017 22:36:43 +0800
Jason Stevens  wrote:

> I had wanted to do something along those lines, back a while ago,
> which is when I started trying to put together a 'MS-DOS' DPMI
> version of SIMH, thinking it as the lowest common denominator, and as
> much of the OS's in a minimal state to basically run 'all the
> things' ...
> 
> I figured getting a machine to run 386 based exe's with a few MB of
> ram wouldn't be too hard to push..   Although I suspect now there is
> no what that'd be feasable.
> 
> > --
> > From:   Ray Jewhurst
> > Sent:   Tuesday, May 9, 2017 9:04 AM
> > To: simh
> > Subject:[Simh] Idea for a Simh guide
> > 
> > <>
> > With all of the questions I have asked lately, I have had an idea.
> > First a little bit of background. I am 45 years old and have really
> > only had exposure to PCs and Macs. Although I briefly ran backups
> > on an IBM mainframe and a HP HP/UX machine of some kind, I really
> > didn't learn much since I simply followed a script. Then about 10
> > years ago I discovered Simh. I have always been intrigued by minis
> > but I knew nothing about them. I did stuff like booted RT- 11 and
> > running Unix but I just flirted with it on and off. Then about a
> > year ago I got really interested and for a short time I contributed
> > to the "show dev" descriptions but I hate C so I decided to immerse
> > myself into various configurations of systems and whatnot. Now I am
> > totally infatuated almost obsessed with the PDP- 11 and the VAX
> > although I have only seen photos of these systems. 
> > 
> > I want to share my love of these oldies but goodies to a new
> > generation of computer aficionados. That is where I hope you all
> > come in. I would like to make a guide and maybe a blog introducing
> > people to the various machines simulated. I would like to make easy
> > to understand instructions in plain English-speaking and advice on
> > how to use the available resources online especially Bitsavers. One
> > of my favorite bands say, "Energy is contagious, enthusiasm
> > spreads."-Rush, Chain Lightning. That is what I hope to do. What do
> > you guys think? Would any of you be willing to contribute? The
> > approach I would like to take is as I learn my readers learn. 
> > 
> > Thanks 
> > Ray  
> >   
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Idea for a Simh guide

[Bob Eager]

I wrote this a while ago, mainly because some of the files were no
longer where they were supposed to be in an earlier guide. I also ended
up including a couple of utilities.

It's about installing a 4.3BSD variant on SIMH. However, there is lots
of useful generic information in there.

 http://www.tavi.co.uk/unixhistory/quasijarus.html

On Tue, 9 May 2017 21:14:29 -0400
Paul Koning  wrote:

> Ray,
> 
> Great idea!  I'll offer help on the subject of RSTS-11 and RSTS/E.  
> 
> Come to think of it, I need to gather up some notes about some work
> I've done on old versions: (1) building RSTS-11 V4A from a kit
> (tricky, because it really wants to be done with DOS 4 and not later
> versions, and DOS 4 is a bit difficult to find and has bizarre
> installation procedures of its own).  And (2) try to run the V3A and
> V3C images on Bitsavers.  (I had success with V3C; the V3A image
> seems to be missing a valid boot block so that requires more work.
> Also, V3 manuals appear to be utterly nonexistent.)
> 
>   paul
> 
> > On May 8, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Ray Jewhurst 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > With all of the questions I have asked lately, I have had an idea.
> > First a little bit of background. I am 45 years old and have really
> > only had exposure to PCs and Macs. Although I briefly ran backups
> > on an IBM mainframe and a HP HP/UX machine of some kind, I really
> > didn't learn much since I simply followed a script. Then about 10
> > years ago I discovered Simh. I have always been intrigued by minis
> > but I knew nothing about them. I did stuff like booted RT- 11 and
> > running Unix but I just flirted with it on and off. Then about a
> > year ago I got really interested and for a short time I contributed
> > to the "show dev" descriptions but I hate C so I decided to immerse
> > myself into various configurations of systems and whatnot. Now I am
> > totally infatuated almost obsessed with the PDP- 11 and the VAX
> > although I have only seen photos of these systems. 
> > 
> > I want to share my love of these oldies but goodies to a new
> > generation of computer aficionados. That is where I hope you all
> > come in. I would like to make a guide and maybe a blog introducing
> > people to the various machines simulated. I would like to make easy
> > to understand instructions in plain English-speaking and advice on
> > how to use the available resources online especially Bitsavers. One
> > of my favorite bands say, "Energy is contagious, enthusiasm
> > spreads."-Rush, Chain Lightning. That is what I hope to do. What do
> > you guys think? Would any of you be willing to contribute? The
> > approach I would like to take is as I learn my readers learn. 
> > 
> > Thanks 
> > Ray  
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh  
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] VAX 8200

[Bob Eager]

That is correct. The 360kB drives are only 40 track. The 1.2MB drives
are 80 track.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:53:57 -0600
khandy21yo  wrote:

> I think  you need 1.2M floppy drives for this. I seem to remember
> THAT 360k drives don't work for reading RX50s.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Paul Koning
>  Date: 3/20/17  6:45 AM  (GMT-07:00) To:
> Ethan Dicks  Cc: SIMH 
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VAX 8200 
> 
> > On Mar 19, 2017, at 11:33 PM, Ethan Dicks 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > I have a number of ways to read RX50s, but nothing is presently set
> > up and plugged in for that.  I'll have to dust something off and
> > get it going.
> 
> PCs can read RX50s if you have a 5.25 inch drive.  DOS, or old enough
> versions of Windows that you can issue BIOS calls work.  On Linux,
> you can set the floppy parameters to 80 tracks, 10 sectors, single
> sided, and then standard utilities like dd will work.  If you have a
> floppy image you may need to process the interleaving to get to an
> image other file system utilities will handle.
> 
> My FLX utility (on my Subversion server or in simhtools) can do
> this.  I have a newer version in Python that can be used as a
> library, and includes an interleave/de-interleave tool.
> 
>   paul
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] 32V on SIMH

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:33:06 +0100
Anders Magnusson  wrote:

> Den 2017-01-30 kl. 00:13, skrev Jason Self:
> > I've successfully booted 32V in the VAX-11/780 emulator built from
> > git master on my GNU/Linux system. It's neat. My next task is to be
> > able to copy files back and forth between the emulator and the host
> > system. I've been doing some searching online and it's not entirely
> > clear to me how to accomplish this. I'd thought I'd write in for
> > advice or pointers. It doesn't matter much to me how it's
> > accomplished: Somehow communicating with 32V while it's running in
> > the emulator, shutting it down and accessing the disk image file,
> > or whatever, as long as there is something.  
> I usually use tar to/from a disk image.
> 
>  From host OS just to the disk file, and from the guest OS against
> the raw device.

Paper tape?
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Simulator accuracy (was Re: New TC11)

[Bob Eager]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 13:14:47 -0500
Bob Supnik  wrote:

>  The "unimplemented" 
> opcodes in the H316/H516 need to be simulated correctly because some
> of them got used after programmers discovered what they did.

Ha! I modified our H516 to use one or two of those for new
instructions ...
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 01:21:44 +0200
Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:

> On 2016-10-26 21:14, Paul Koning wrote:
> >  
> >> On Oct 23, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Bob Eager <r...@tavi.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 14:07:33 -0400
> >> Paul Koning <paulkon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>  
> >>> ...  
> >>  
> >>> RT-11 is very clean.  I've worked with V2A (the FB version when
> >>> possible, SJ when I didn't have enough memory).  They are very
> >>> simple and compact; the UI is the old TOPS-10 style, not the
> >>> newer bloated "DCL" interface.  So a V2 era edition would be a
> >>> good way to go.  
> >>
> >> Yes, it's very nice. Someone once gave me electronic copies of some
> >> sources (circa 1975) and I read them with glee. Lovely comments,
> >> too: the system call dispatcher had the comment "What's it going
> >> to be then, eh?" from the Clockwork Orange. I think those comments
> >> were only in the FB monitor.  
> >
> > Yes.  They were the work of the FB designer, Anton Chernoff, later
> > my mentor in college.  I lifted the idea later on; some of the
> > DECnet/E source code has neat quotes in it.  Unfortunately, those
> > aren't so visible because DECnet/E sources were never
> > distributed... :-(  
> 
> That practice were clearly also around in the software for the PDP-8.
> I remember quite some enjoyment reading about the financial state of
> the Pony Express in the mid 19th century in the FORTRAN-IV runtime
> system.

It prompted me to do the same, particularly in some terminal software I
wrote part of around that time. The commands could be abbreviated as
long as they stayed unique, modelled on my experience of TOPS-10 a bit
earlier.

(the software was called YAROE - Yet Another Rewrite Of Everything)
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 14:07:33 -0400
Paul Koning  wrote:

> I've never seen DOS sources.  Also, DOS/Batch is a later version with
> more stuff in it.  DOS V4 might be better.

I couldn't agree more. We had DOS/BATCH on an 11/20 in about 1974 (we'd
had it for a year or two before I got my hands one it). 

I know someone had to patch it as it used 12 bits for the date:

  date = (year-1970)*1000 + day in month

They called it a Julian date (which it wasn't, and of course it was
incredibly bit-wasteful). It 'ran out' in March 1974, and the patch was
regularly applied to fix dates so that we worked in the middle of a
four year window.

We also put it on RK05s, and I remember reading the (badly xeroxed)
sources that DEC gave us, and working out how to patch it to fix a
fairly nasty bug in the RK05 driver.

But it was amazingly small - 4kB resident, with hundreds of tiny
overlays. I think running a program used four 128kB overlays.

> On the other hand, DOS is a truly evil operating system.  I don't
> know its internals, but just from using it you can tell it should
> never be used as a model.

Indeed! I did fire it up on SIMH a while ago.

> RT-11 is very clean.  I've worked with V2A (the FB version when
> possible, SJ when I didn't have enough memory).  They are very simple
> and compact; the UI is the old TOPS-10 style, not the newer bloated
> "DCL" interface.  So a V2 era edition would be a good way to go.

Yes, it's very nice. Someone once gave me electronic copies of some
sources (circa 1975) and I read them with glee. Lovely comments, too:
the system call dispatcher had the comment "What's it going to be then,
eh?" from the Clockwork Orange. I think those comments were only in the
FB monitor.

I assembled it on DOS/BATCH, and wrote programs in MACRO-11 to convert
the binaries to RT-11 format. I also wrote stuff to make a bootable
DECtape, got it running, and used that to transfer it to disk!
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Bob Eager]

It doesn't work on later versions of Android. I used to use it, and
was quite annoyed when it stopped working, with no fix.

(it's actually the terminal app that it needs, that is actually broken)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 10:54:38 -0700
Mark Abene  wrote:

> I guess no one's heard of "SIMH for Android" in the google play store?
> I've been using it for a few years, but there's no network support.
> 
> -Mark
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Sergii Kolisnyk
>  wrote:
> > Hi, all,
> >
> > actually, there seems to be another way than NDK:
> > - compile statically with buildroot uClibc;
> > - copy, no install support;
> > - run under ConnectBot.
> >
> > Sergii
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh  
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] on Android [Was: (no subject)]

[Bob Eager]

So would I.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:36:17 +
Gene Irwin  wrote:

> I would certainly be interested :D
> 
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016, 3:33 AM Pontus Pihlgren 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:19:15AM -0700, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> > >
> > > A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh
> > > makefile in the github master branch.  I haven't tried building
> > > for Android since shortly after that time.  I'd appreciate any
> > > feedback from anyone who tries now.
> > >
> >
> > I do Android develpoment for a living. Not so much apps and guis
> > but things behind the scenes.
> >
> > I considered doing a (free) simh port as an exercise. If there is
> > significant interrest it might spur me to actually do it.
> >
> > /P
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] (no subject)

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 11:50:18 -0400
Paul Koning  wrote:

> > On Sep 9, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Gene Irwin 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Another potentially pot-stirriing question:
> > 
> > What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the
> > Google play store that is a pay for app and that it requires
> > another pay for AP to be useful (a terminal made by the same
> > author)?  
> 
> That's perfectly legitimate given the BSD-style license used by
> SIMH.  This is precisely the sort of thing that people choose to
> allow when they pick that kind of license (and choose to make more
> difficult though not impossible when they choose GPL instead).
> 
> Note that nothing prevents you or anyone else from releasing your own
> copy of SIMH for Android, either as a free app or otherwise.
> 
> Some people feel that open source projects should not be distributed
> for money.  If you feel that way, there are licenses that impose such
> restrictions (though those typically are *not* considered valid open
> source licenses precisely because of that restriction).  But in the
> projects I'm familiar with, not only is commercial distribution
> considered valid, it is often encouraged as a way to bring more
> motivated contributors to the project.

Indeed. I do wish the damn thing worked, though. I rather liked being
able to fire up VMS on my phone.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Compiler differences

[Bob Eager]

There's a VAX benchmark program. I ran it on my last machine and got
something in excess of an 8600!

I'd be surprised if it isn't around somewhere, but if it isn't then I
can upload it.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 17:03:18 -0400
Clem Cole  wrote:

> Is there a reasonable benchmark - moral equivalent of running the 741
> op-amp thru spice - Say a VAX under BSDx or VMS running some defined
> load?
> 
> 
> Also have you ever tried the DEC^h^h^hIntel C compiler on an x86 or
> INTEL*64 target (Linux, Winders, or OS X).
> 
> Clem
> 
> On Friday, May 27, 2016, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
> 
> > My observations are that clang does indeed compile faster than gcc,
> >
> > however that doesn’t say much about how fast the compiled results
> >
> > actually run.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you’re only compiling a single simulator (which most users are
> >
> > probably interested in) the compile time difference isn’t enough
> >
> > to worry about.
> >
> >
> >
> > When changes to simulators are made, compiling with both gcc
> >
> > and clang are used since these compilers tend to detect different
> >
> > errors.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com
> > ]
> > *On Behalf Of *Kevin Handy
> > *Sent:* Friday, May 27, 2016 12:04 PM
> > *To:* simh@trailing-edge.com
> > 
> > *Subject:* [Simh] Compiler differences
> >
> >
> >
> > Has anyone done a comparison (benchmarks) between simh emulators
> > compiled with g++ verses clang?
> >
> > clang seems to me to run quite a bit faster than gcc, but I haven't
> > run any actual comparisons between the two so it is completely
> > subjective.
> >
> > A full 'make' seems to build faster with clang than gcc.
> >
> > Just curious. I recently noticed bthe clang stuff in the makefile,
> > so I thought I'd try it out.
> >
> 
> 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Photorealistic panel for PDP-11/20

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 1 May 2016 12:27:06 +0200
Jörg Hoppe  wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> > On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:03:35 +0200
> > Jörg Hoppe  wrote:
> >
> >> The header line says it all: another panel for BlinkenBone is
> >> there, the classic PDP-11/20.
> >> In function and style it fills the gap between the PDP-8 and the
> >> later PDP-11's.
> >>
> >> The GitHub distribution starts the 1970 Paper-tape BASIC, download
> >> here: https://github.com/j-hoppe/BlinkenBone/releases
> >>
> >> For info see
> >> http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/simulated-panels/253-blinkenbone-simulated-pdp-11-20-panel
> >> and next page.
> >
> > Thank you! That was the first PDP-11 I ever used (and programmed in
> > MACRO-11).
> >
> > I ran DOS/BATCH and also RT-11. And I also ran a UNIX system on it.
> Do you remember which UNIX?
> I always considered the 11/20 to be too weak for that (no MMU,
> despite 18 ADDRESS switches). Or am I wrong?

Pretty weak, but OK for one person. This was Mini-UNIX. Main
differences: only one process in memory at the same time, simulated
pipes, no groups. This was circa 1977 I guess. I still have the manual
somewhere.

The way it worked was that the kernel lives in the bottom 16kW, and
processes were all linked to a base of 16kW.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Photorealistic panel for PDP-11/20

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:03:35 +0200
Jörg Hoppe  wrote:

> The header line says it all: another panel for BlinkenBone is there,
> the classic PDP-11/20.
> In function and style it fills the gap between the PDP-8 and the
> later PDP-11's.
> 
> The GitHub distribution starts the 1970 Paper-tape BASIC, download
> here: https://github.com/j-hoppe/BlinkenBone/releases
> 
> For info see
> http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/simulated-panels/253-blinkenbone-simulated-pdp-11-20-panel
> and next page.

Thank you! That was the first PDP-11 I ever used (and programmed in
MACRO-11).

I ran DOS/BATCH and also RT-11. And I also ran a UNIX system on it.

Now I possess an 11/23, an 11/84 and two others!

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] SIMH VAX on a Kindle

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:10:40 -0700
Mark Pizzolato  wrote:

> I'm surprised that the NAT(SLiRP) connectivity isn't useful here.
> 
> Meanwhile, a while back it was no problem to build the current
> codebase with the ADK.  I haven't tried in a few years, but there it
> s no reason it shouldn't still work.

I'm sure it will build OK. But it relied on Better Terminal Pro and
that is broken.
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh