[SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
Mary, We had a brief discussion on Friday night about a client of ComputerBank in Glebe which I believe should be handle better by such a group as LinuxChix. The client is a Woman's and childrens Refuge in St Johns Road in Glebe. I have visited the house once to discuss their requirements. Due to the environment in which the refuge clients come from, it was very difficult for me to gain entry. If Linuxchix would like to assist, ComputerBank would make available as much resources (limited such as they are) as possible. Regards Craig Warner NSW Coordinator ComputerBank NSW On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:17, Mary wrote: ] Hi SLUG, A LinuxChix chapter is about to form in Sydney, interested women might want to go to http://ps.pageseeder.com/ps/jg/linuxchix/default/2002/2002.html and sign up so that you can receive details of meetings and so on. People who don't know anything about LinuxChix might want to look here first: http://www.linuxchix.org/content/docs/faqs/ -Mary. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Announcements List - http://slug.org.au More info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/announce -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
At 12:07 pm, Sunday, April 14 2002, Dane mumbled: I think its awfully presumptuous to think that the LinuxChix dont want to meet LinuxGuys. Funnily enough, girls have an opinion too. If some girls are anything like me (and I hope to $DEITY there *aren't*, as I think I'm seriously disturbed), they wouldn't want to be involved with anyone that works in computers. I'd turn up but Im pretty sexy so I fear that I would be singled out and ogled and drooled over. Okaay, then. I do admit that it is a possibility that my mere presence would attract a greater female attendance to the LinuxChix meetings but I refuse to prostitute myself for the Linux cause like this. My, aren't we confident. Keep living in that dream. It must be good. -- Steve Portable, adj.: Survives system reboot. msg22550/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
I'd turn up but Im pretty sexy so I fear that I would be singled out and ogled and drooled over. Okaay, then. No, not drooled, so much as vomited over !! -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
I struggle with the notion that so many people who theoretically have such great intellect fail miserably in understanding the notion of sarcasm or hyperbole. For a bunch of smart people, you sure are pretty stupid. So keen to twist issues based upon gender or maturity, you seem to lack any common sense. Perhaps its not comments like mine (which are wholly indicative of exactly what sort of person I am, of course) which necessitate groups like LC. Perhaps its an excessive inferiority complex. Do you even remember what you are so incensed about? Did I offend your sensibilities as a woman? I apologise. This was never my intent. Do I regret my childish and immature comments? Not for a second. Maybe, just maybe, it's not me who needs to grow up. XO Dane -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 12:16:52AM +1000, Dane wrote: Perhaps its not comments like mine (which are wholly indicative of exactly what sort of person I am, of course) which necessitate groups like LC. Perhaps its an excessive inferiority complex. Nono, it's simply a desire not to spend time that could be used learning about Linux arguing with people who do any of the following: * Tell people to RTFM. * Hit on women at random. * Make idiotic jokes and claim that a failure to appreciate such jokes has something to do with us not having a sense of humour, as opposed to say, the joke being rude or really dumb. Trust me, it would be really hard for me to be feeling excessively inferior right about now. Maybe, just maybe, it's not me who needs to grow up. But it's pretty unlikely, you have to admit. -Mary. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 12:16:52AM +1000, Dane wrote: I struggle with the notion that so many people who theoretically have such great intellect fail miserably in understanding the notion of sarcasm or hyperbole. Except that it wasn't funny. Incidentally, if you find something funny that offends others, does that mean that they have no right to be offended? Perhaps its not comments like mine (which are wholly indicative of exactly what sort of person I am, of course) which necessitate groups like LC. Perhaps its an excessive inferiority complex. Do you even remember what you are so incensed about? Now that's definitely not funny. Just because you don't feel threatened by male-dominated environments, doesn't mean all women don't feel threatened either. Stupid comments like excessive inferiority complex only serve to reinforce that SLUG is not a welcoming environment for women. I can see that; why can't you? Just because you think it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't make sense to other people. I wish that SLUG was completely newbie-friendly, and unintimidating to everybody. By everybody I mean women, curious Windows users, 72-year-old grandmas, everybody. Now I don't speak for the whole of SLUG or the committe, but I think most people would agree that appealing to a broad audience can only be a good thing. I realise that degree of accessibility is not easy, but there are some obvious things that don't help. Telling people that they are stupid, which you have essentially just done, doesn't help. Did I offend your sensibilities as a woman? I apologise. This was never my intent. What is your intent? Do I regret my childish and immature comments? Not for a second. Maybe, just maybe, it's not me who needs to grow up. Saying that you never intended to offend someone, then telling them to grow up and suggesting they have an excessive inferiority complex is a bit contradictory. And here's another contradiction for you: the more you insist that you are right, the more likely it is that some women will not want to be part of SLUG, even though if you are right, that shouldn't happen. Can you see why? This problem people have with LinuxChix seems as silly to me as if people started talking about Seperatist Debians, just because there is a Debian-SIG. If you are merely trolling, please stop. Posts like yours damage SLUG, by scaring away potential members (in this case, women). Some will choose to be part of SLUG anyway, but I fear that the perceived attitude of SLUG towards women is going to suffer long-term harm because of the posts of a few individuals. -Andrew. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 12:27:53AM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote: Just because you don't feel threatened by male-dominated environments, doesn't mean all women don't feel threatened either. Stupid comments like excessive inferiority complex only serve to reinforce that SLUG is not a welcoming environment for women. I can see that; why can't you? I think perhaps Neal Stephenson summed it up rather well in 'Snow Crash': It was, of course, nothing more than sexism, the especially virulent type espoused by male techies who sincerely believe that they are too smart to be sexists. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Dane wrote: I struggle with the notion that so many people who theoretically have such great intellect fail miserably in understanding the notion of sarcasm or hyperbole. For a bunch of smart people, you sure are pretty stupid. So keen to twist issues based upon gender or maturity, you seem to lack any common sense. Perhaps its not comments like mine (which are wholly indicative of exactly what sort of person I am, of course) which necessitate groups like LC. Perhaps its an excessive inferiority complex. Do you even remember what you are so incensed about? Did I offend your sensibilities as a woman? I apologise. This was never my intent. Do I regret my childish and immature comments? Not for a second. Maybe, just maybe, it's not me who needs to grow up. Not having time or desire to play with incendiary devices I've avoided every post on this thread but I wish people would take it elsewhere. thanks. -=-=-==-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Graeme Robinson - Graenet consulting www.graenet.com - internet solutions -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==---=-=--=-=-= -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
I struggle with the notion that so many people who theoretically have such great intellect fail miserably in understanding the notion of sarcasm or hyperbole. For a bunch of smart people, you sure are pretty stupid. So keen to twist issues based upon gender or maturity, you seem to lack any common sense. Perhaps its not comments like mine (which are wholly indicative of exactly what sort of person I am, of course) which necessitate groups like LC. Perhaps its an excessive inferiority complex. Do you even remember what you are so incensed about? Did I offend your sensibilities as a woman? I apologise. This was never my intent. Do I regret my childish and immature comments? Not for a second. Maybe, just maybe, it's not me who needs to grow up. Hey, I don't care one way or the other. I've seen/heard things that would even make the most hedonistic or free thinking type shudder. I was just making an observation based on experience working in mostly male environments. In general these things don't really worry me at all mostly because I *don't* have an inferiority complex. I, too, have quite a sense of humour and can identify true sarcasm, irony and wit very quickly, some things your post was lacking. rachel - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
I think its awfully presumptuous to think that the LinuxChix dont want to meet LinuxGuys. I'd turn up but Im pretty sexy so I fear that I would be singled out and ogled and drooled over. I do admit that it is a possibility that my mere presence would attract a greater female attendance to the LinuxChix meetings but I refuse to prostitute myself for the Linux cause like this. D On 0, Kevin Saenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The utterly stupid thing that we have here is that a bunch of males are the ones who have an opion on this topic So far I have no seen any thing from the ladies side. Does this mean that men have to stick their nose on other peoples business? Or is it that they want to control what happens? Reguardless of your position. :) I am a guys - but would love to meet linux chix. And comments like that are why LinuxChix exists, I suspect. Computer groups are anti social enough, without having a seperate groups for gals. It's like the Debian-SIG in my mind. If you're not interested in Debian, it doesn't matter. Don't go. If you have a special interest that you'd like to have get-togethers for, then go and organise one. Other peoples hobbies and interests aren't your concern. Women that go to SLUG are allowed to meet each other while you're not looking. It's not a crime, or even in any way unreasonable. You could always try to start a LinuxGuys, but I suspect most people don't see any point in doing so. I certainly don't see any. There's plenty of men using Linux that a special support group and general social get-together would be totally redundant. I can however see plenty of merit in LinuxChix. If there's a problem, then it's not with LinuxChix. Calling LinuxChix anti-social is, in my opinion, a symptom of the problem that causes it to exist. Comments like would love to meet linux chix are hardly likely to make women feel welcome and feel equally respected in the community, and that is great shame. If everytime I went to a LUG meeting or posted to a list I felt that everyone was checking me out or thinking he uses linux! And he's a guy! Phwoar! or otherwise making my gender by the major issue in every thing I do in the community, I would be extremely uncomfortable. There's far more to me than the fact that I'm a man, and I suspect most women have a similar opinion of themselves. Put yourself in women's shoes; don't you think there's a reasonable chance you might be offended by people that posted what you just did? Doesn't that alone justify the existence of LinuxChix? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in defending LinuxChix like this, seeing as I'm not a member and know relatively little about it and its motivations (heck, I don't even know if I'm capitalising its name correctly :). What I have heard about them has been quite positive, though. And finally, apologies for the length. I fear this has grown into a little bit of a rant :( Regards, -Andrew. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug --- Kevin Saenz Security Analyst mobile: +61418455661 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
I am a guys - but would love to meet linux chix. Computer groups are anti social enough, without having a seperate groups for gals.
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
The utterly stupid thing that we have here is that a bunch of males are the ones who have an opion on this topic So far I have no seen any thing from the ladies side. Does this mean that men have to stick their nose on other peoples business? Or is it that they want to control what happens? Reguardless of your position. :) I am a guys - but would love to meet linux chix. And comments like that are why LinuxChix exists, I suspect. Computer groups are anti social enough, without having a seperate groups for gals. It's like the Debian-SIG in my mind. If you're not interested in Debian, it doesn't matter. Don't go. If you have a special interest that you'd like to have get-togethers for, then go and organise one. Other peoples hobbies and interests aren't your concern. Women that go to SLUG are allowed to meet each other while you're not looking. It's not a crime, or even in any way unreasonable. You could always try to start a LinuxGuys, but I suspect most people don't see any point in doing so. I certainly don't see any. There's plenty of men using Linux that a special support group and general social get-together would be totally redundant. I can however see plenty of merit in LinuxChix. If there's a problem, then it's not with LinuxChix. Calling LinuxChix anti-social is, in my opinion, a symptom of the problem that causes it to exist. Comments like would love to meet linux chix are hardly likely to make women feel welcome and feel equally respected in the community, and that is great shame. If everytime I went to a LUG meeting or posted to a list I felt that everyone was checking me out or thinking he uses linux! And he's a guy! Phwoar! or otherwise making my gender by the major issue in every thing I do in the community, I would be extremely uncomfortable. There's far more to me than the fact that I'm a man, and I suspect most women have a similar opinion of themselves. Put yourself in women's shoes; don't you think there's a reasonable chance you might be offended by people that posted what you just did? Doesn't that alone justify the existence of LinuxChix? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in defending LinuxChix like this, seeing as I'm not a member and know relatively little about it and its motivations (heck, I don't even know if I'm capitalising its name correctly :). What I have heard about them has been quite positive, though. And finally, apologies for the length. I fear this has grown into a little bit of a rant :( Regards, -Andrew. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug --- Kevin Saenz Security Analyst mobile: +61418455661 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
Wouldn't the ladies just be talking in the LinuxChix lists? They don't need to contribute to this thread... Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kevin Saenz Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 10:22 AM To: Andrew Bennetts Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney The utterly stupid thing that we have here is that a bunch of males are the ones who have an opion on this topic So far I have no seen any thing from the ladies side. Does this mean that men have to stick their nose on other peoples business? Or is it that they want to control what happens? Reguardless of your position. :) I am a guys - but would love to meet linux chix. And comments like that are why LinuxChix exists, I suspect. Computer groups are anti social enough, without having a seperate groups for gals. It's like the Debian-SIG in my mind. If you're not interested in Debian, it doesn't matter. Don't go. If you have a special interest that you'd like to have get-togethers for, then go and organise one. Other peoples hobbies and interests aren't your concern. Women that go to SLUG are allowed to meet each other while you're not looking. It's not a crime, or even in any way unreasonable. You could always try to start a LinuxGuys, but I suspect most people don't see any point in doing so. I certainly don't see any. There's plenty of men using Linux that a special support group and general social get-together would be totally redundant. I can however see plenty of merit in LinuxChix. If there's a problem, then it's not with LinuxChix. Calling LinuxChix anti-social is, in my opinion, a symptom of the problem that causes it to exist. Comments like would love to meet linux chix are hardly likely to make women feel welcome and feel equally respected in the community, and that is great shame. If everytime I went to a LUG meeting or posted to a list I felt that everyone was checking me out or thinking he uses linux! And he's a guy! Phwoar! or otherwise making my gender by the major issue in every thing I do in the community, I would be extremely uncomfortable. There's far more to me than the fact that I'm a man, and I suspect most women have a similar opinion of themselves. Put yourself in women's shoes; don't you think there's a reasonable chance you might be offended by people that posted what you just did? Doesn't that alone justify the existence of LinuxChix? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in defending LinuxChix like this, seeing as I'm not a member and know relatively little about it and its motivations (heck, I don't even know if I'm capitalising its name correctly :). What I have heard about them has been quite positive, though. And finally, apologies for the length. I fear this has grown into a little bit of a rant :( Regards, -Andrew. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug --- Kevin Saenz Security Analyst mobile: +61418455661 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 11:22:25AM +1000, Kennedy, Adam wrote: Wouldn't the ladies just be talking in the LinuxChix lists? They don't need to contribute to this thread... The ladies are welcome to do whatever they like, just like the guys and the three-legged gerbils. Over-analysing everyone's actions and motivations is just going to spark pointless flamewars... basically, I don't see this discussion heading anywhere productive. -Andrew. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:05:16PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a guys - but would love to meet linux chix. And comments like that are why LinuxChix exists, I suspect. Computer groups are anti social enough, without having a seperate groups for gals. It's like the Debian-SIG in my mind. If you're not interested in Debian, it doesn't matter. Don't go. If you have a special interest that you'd like to have get-togethers for, then go and organise one. Other peoples hobbies and interests aren't your concern. Women that go to SLUG are allowed to meet each other while you're not looking. It's not a crime, or even in any way unreasonable. You could always try to start a LinuxGuys, but I suspect most people don't see any point in doing so. I certainly don't see any. There's plenty of men using Linux that a special support group and general social get-together would be totally redundant. I can however see plenty of merit in LinuxChix. If there's a problem, then it's not with LinuxChix. Calling LinuxChix anti-social is, in my opinion, a symptom of the problem that causes it to exist. Comments like would love to meet linux chix are hardly likely to make women feel welcome and feel equally respected in the community, and that is great shame. If everytime I went to a LUG meeting or posted to a list I felt that everyone was checking me out or thinking he uses linux! And he's a guy! Phwoar! or otherwise making my gender by the major issue in every thing I do in the community, I would be extremely uncomfortable. There's far more to me than the fact that I'm a man, and I suspect most women have a similar opinion of themselves. Put yourself in women's shoes; don't you think there's a reasonable chance you might be offended by people that posted what you just did? Doesn't that alone justify the existence of LinuxChix? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in defending LinuxChix like this, seeing as I'm not a member and know relatively little about it and its motivations (heck, I don't even know if I'm capitalising its name correctly :). What I have heard about them has been quite positive, though. And finally, apologies for the length. I fear this has grown into a little bit of a rant :( Regards, -Andrew. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:52:29PM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote: On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:05:16PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a guys - but would love to meet linux chix. And comments like that are why LinuxChix exists, I suspect. Computer groups are anti social enough, without having a seperate groups for gals. It's like the Debian-SIG in my mind. If you're not interested in Debian, it doesn't matter. Don't go. If you have a special interest that you'd like to have get-togethers for, then go and organise one. Other peoples hobbies and interests aren't your concern. Women that go to SLUG are allowed to meet each other while you're not looking. It's not a crime, or even in any way unreasonable. I'd also like to point out that, unless it's any different from the Melbourne chapter, guys are welcome. As long as they're not just there to check out all the LinuxChix. Somehow, I doubt they appreciate being rounded up just to be drooled at. If there's a problem, then it's not with LinuxChix. Calling LinuxChix anti-social is, in my opinion, a symptom of the problem that causes it to exist. Comments like would love to meet linux chix are hardly likely to make women feel welcome and feel equally respected in the community, and that is great shame. Yea, and that's part of the reason why LinuxChix exists. Feel free to go there if you can keep your eyes and tongue in check. And finally, apologies for the length. I fear this has grown into a little bit of a rant :( 'Sall good. :) -- Daniel Stone[EMAIL PROTECTED] DanielS liedra: mind if i sigquote that? liedra sure :) liedra can I sigquote that? cdlu yeah, that's a quote I'm going to have to start using DanielS cdlu: it was growing at the rate of ~5 a day before i realised i was an irc addict, and went out and acquired a life and a gf cdlu daniels: i became an irc addict when i got a sympathetic girlfriend msg22463/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
Andrew Bennetts wrote: On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 11:22:25AM +1000, Kennedy, Adam wrote: Wouldn't the ladies just be talking in the LinuxChix lists? They don't need to contribute to this thread... The ladies are welcome to do whatever they like, just like the guys and the three-legged gerbils. I wondered how many groups there are for Linux to do with minority/disciminated etc groups and came up with We have received many emails from people asking if there was also a Linux-users group for gay people. We didn't know of any. So we tried to do a ... http://www.linuxforlesbians.org/ There are many groups for physicaly impaired people. There does not seem to be any chapter for Vampires who use Linux late at night or use their laptops under the coffin lid. Mike -- Michael Lake University of Technology, Sydney Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical. UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER = This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] LinuxChix chapter in Sydney
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 12:36:00PM +1000, Michael Lake wrote: There does not seem to be any chapter for Vampires who use Linux late at night or use their laptops under the coffin lid. They are called ``coders''. Instead of blood they suck caffine. Anand -- `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
