Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating.......again
It is very early am, I can't go to the OVSS in Cinci, so I'll take my frustration out by beating the dead Nostalgia horse. My apologies to everyone. Having an AMA Nostalgia class is good, accept it or not, most entry level into RC Soaring ( non electric) is with a woody, ARF or home built. I don't classify an AVA, etc. as a woody ( beat on that one for a while) because it has a molded wing section. The current NOS rules need to be amended through the AMA process of rules changing ( won't this bring out the know it alls), but NOS will be in trouble because there will be some really goofy rules changes proposed, mostly by people that have no experience of building and flying back in the days of nostalgia and likely no experience flying in a current NOS contest. I truly hope the AMA Nos Nats will grow, so far it hasn't and for several obvious reasons. One of the reasons is the rules are not right and do not reflect what really was going on in the good old days when the SOAR NATS attracted so many more contestants then what we see at the NATS currently. A good example is, it was fairly common practice to fully sheet or partially sheet the wings of a Windfree, Astro Jeff, and etc.. The irony of the rules administration at the NOS NATS is the planes are not checked for compliance, a process that would be impossible to undertake. Another problem at the NOS NATS is the tow lines (and winches) do not comply with the tow lines used during the days the so called NOS rules are trying to duplicate. 280 to 300 lb test tow lines used at the NOS NATS are not compatible with small NOS designs, so it didn't take long to realize the NOS planes to fly at the NATS ( if you were competing to win) were the larger designs and for the lack of size classes in the NOS NATS ( another mistake) it makes flying the larger designs almost mandatory. These conditions are not the best for attracting larger numbers of entrants. My Wood Crafters event was created to attract people who enjoy building and flying a woody, I think the AMA NOS event is developing a reputation for turning people off to NOS. I personally enjoy flying the AMA NOS event, but I have given up on flying my 23 oz Windfree there. Participate in the Rules changing process and hope for the best. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: Chuck Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CapnCrunchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating...again You think you got it bad. I am unable to fly my original design that I used to win a first place trophy at the 1974 SOAR Nats because it was never published other than in our club newsletter. The original model still exists but is not flyable on modern high power winches. I did build a replica with a beefed up wing a few years ago to see if if really flew as well as I remembered. It didn't! I did take both the original and the replica to the Nats one year and displayed both along with the 74 SOAR Nats trophy and a sign reading ILLEGAL NOSTALGIA MODEL Chuck Anderson At 09:24 PM 5/20/2005, you wrote: My guess is you have not read the rules because it clearly states the pilot is to provide documentation, no where does it referance a list. C'mon lets face it, if one goes to a contest and his plane is on the List, he wouldn't have to provide documentation, right? BTW, where is the Legionaire 132 on 'the list'? DUUUH! I have been digging and asking for ANY type of documentation so I wouldn't have to be concerned about being disqualified by the CD after driving 200+ miles to attend a NOS event with my MalCo Eagle. Thanks bunches for the info, Chuck Anderson. I see light in the tunnel. Many of us are flying Vintage ships that have been bought at swap meets or from widows and have no source for the plans. Or the plans got wasted during construction! I am trying to find plans or a picture of the box for an Original(first edition) Windrifter 100 that shows the stab mounted on the fuse. I saw one once on eBay but didn't win the bid. Until then, I can't compete at an AMA NOS event with mine THAT, is why I like the way Ray Hayes and Jack Womack think. I also have a set of plans for a Legionaire provided to me by Jack Hamilton that shows how to use a fiberglass boom like the one on his '76 FAI ship. But according to AMA rules - 'taint legal! I understand the original intent of the rules, but they are too restrictive and more dificult to document than a Scale ship!! Blue skies, Capn Crunchie Yahoo! Mail Mobile http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mobile/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/le arn/mailTake Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text
[RCSE] Fw: Winch Batteries
To add to my original request for information on the best batteries to use on a winch. I have heard that you should use a certain charger. Or a certain type of charger different from the typical car battery charger. Is there any truth to that. Do Optima batteries need to be charged differently? Thanks again Dave W - Original Message - From: David Whitaker To: RCSE Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:42 PM Subject: Winch Batteries I know this was discussed some time ago. And I didn't pay attention then. Now I need the information. What is the best battery to use for winches. Thanks Dave W
Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating.......again
I too am disappointed with the way Nostalgia at the Nats has developed. I understand the necessity of using the existing winches even though they are much too strong and have too heavy line since it is not practicable to have special winches for one class. I do object to restricting it to one day combined with RES while wasting two days on 2-meter, a class very few would be flying if it wasn't sandwiched between hand launch and unlimited. I also object to flying modern man on man tasks and landings instead of the tasks and landings as flown at the SOAR Nats. The old events are much more suited to the old models. I have entered Nostalgia every year since it was first proposed at the LSF tournament in 1994 and flown in all but four. The first two years were rained out and I didn't stay for the last two because of the weather forecast. (My wife was with me and getting tired.) I will not be entering Nostalgia this year. It is not worth spending another night and paying the high entry fees for three flights. Another day will cost at least $100 or $33 per flight. Maybe I will go back to flying my Sailaire in Unlimited. After all, my best place at the Nats in the last 20 years was with the Sailaire in 1996. That year I placed 17th and beat a lot of high tech sailplanes. Almost as good as a win. :-) Chuck Anderson At 06:07 AM 5/21/2005, you wrote: It is very early am, I can't go to the OVSS in Cinci, so I'll take my frustration out by beating the dead Nostalgia horse. My apologies to everyone. Having an AMA Nostalgia class is good, accept it or not, most entry level into RC Soaring ( non electric) is with a woody, ARF or home built. I don't classify an AVA, etc. as a woody ( beat on that one for a while) because it has a molded wing section. The current NOS rules need to be amended through the AMA process of rules changing ( won't this bring out the know it alls), but NOS will be in trouble because there will be some really goofy rules changes proposed, mostly by people that have no experience of building and flying back in the days of nostalgia and likely no experience flying in a current NOS contest. I truly hope the AMA Nos Nats will grow, so far it hasn't and for several obvious reasons. One of the reasons is the rules are not right and do not reflect what really was going on in the good old days when the SOAR NATS attracted so many more contestants then what we see at the NATS currently. A good example is, it was fairly common practice to fully sheet or partially sheet the wings of a Windfree, Astro Jeff, and etc.. The irony of the rules administration at the NOS NATS is the planes are not checked for compliance, a process that would be impossible to undertake. Another problem at the NOS NATS is the tow lines (and winches) do not comply with the tow lines used during the days the so called NOS rules are trying to duplicate. 280 to 300 lb test tow lines used at the NOS NATS are not compatible with small NOS designs, so it didn't take long to realize the NOS planes to fly at the NATS ( if you were competing to win) were the larger designs and for the lack of size classes in the NOS NATS ( another mistake) it makes flying the larger designs almost mandatory. These conditions are not the best for attracting larger numbers of entrants. My Wood Crafters event was created to attract people who enjoy building and flying a woody, I think the AMA NOS event is developing a reputation for turning people off to NOS. I personally enjoy flying the AMA NOS event, but I have given up on flying my 23 oz Windfree there. Participate in the Rules changing process and hope for the best. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Barry Beats Bozo
I've sent Barry Kennedy all the $$$ for an AVA, any color. I sent the $$$ by PayPal, this Morning at 7:43am. No AVA as yet... Bozo, getting the plane he deserves... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating.......again
Dear Blabby, Since my name was mentioned, and not in vain, I guess a comment here is appropriate. The fact is that the list isn't the only source of eligibility. I, too, have a nostalgia design from 1977 called the Magic Carpet that is not eligible. It was designed for Johnnie Casburn who thought he wanted some of the glider kit market. He was in Ft. Worth and had a hobby shop and a kit mfg. business, making sport power models with a foam wing. It hung in his shop for years, until he sold it to someone else. It was orange and silver. I may try to scan some of the pics I have of it. Unfortunately, and this isn't a personal dig at Jack Iafret, the keeper of the rules wasn't around all that much in the days. As Ray said, some built stock models, but most of us gave them their own personal touches. For instance, I never fully sheeted wings, but usually took the top sheeting back an extra inch, a practice I still use with good results. In a contest where things are checked, that would disqualify my Windfree and my Grand Esprit. I will say that in fact some have presented models that should be allowed to the list, but they ain't there... draw your own conclusions. The Miller mods for the Aquila, if they're allowed, then why not the Womack mods for the Legionair. Why not the Legionair 132, which by all accounts and all opinions save one, should be there. After all, a 132 has been flown at the NOS NATS, with the keeper as the CD. Airfoil changes, planform changes, etc., I can understand why these should not be allowed. I would NOT have allowed the dihedral changes to accomodate the spar mods. That's a planform change. It can change the way the design performs and flys. Why was that compromise made and the rest kept so strict? I gave up on the Nostalgia class when informed that a carbon fiber tail boom would not be allowed for a Legionair. This mod would have much less effect on the design than a dihedral change. The fact is that Nostalgia class models are a pain to build, if you can find a kit. If not, you may have to do the old scratch builders boogie. I built some Legionairs that way, pod and all. It was rewarding, to say the least. Imagine my disappointment had one been a 132, and I had driven from Texas to Muncie, only to be told I couldn't fly. There it is. DISSAPOINTMENT. That's why Nostalgia's growth is dead. Until someone steps up to revive it with some realistic rules, dead it will remain. It won't be me, as I have backed away and jumped off into flying full-scale with both feet. The rules are simpler... Will someone please kick this soap box over and knock me off of it?!?! Dissappointed in Houston. (Jack Womack) --- Chuck Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I too am disappointed with the way Nostalgia at the Nats has developed. I understand the necessity of using the existing winches even though they are much too strong and have too heavy line since it is not practicable to have special winches for one class. I do object to restricting it to one day combined with RES while wasting two days on 2-meter, a class very few would be flying if it wasn't sandwiched between hand launch and unlimited. I also object to flying modern man on man tasks and landings instead of the tasks and landings as flown at the SOAR Nats. The old events are much more suited to the old models. I have entered Nostalgia every year since it was first proposed at the LSF tournament in 1994 and flown in all but four. The first two years were rained out and I didn't stay for the last two because of the weather forecast. (My wife was with me and getting tired.) I will not be entering Nostalgia this year. It is not worth spending another night and paying the high entry fees for three flights. Another day will cost at least $100 or $33 per flight. Maybe I will go back to flying my Sailaire in Unlimited. After all, my best place at the Nats in the last 20 years was with the Sailaire in 1996. That year I placed 17th and beat a lot of high tech sailplanes. Almost as good as a win. :-) Chuck Anderson At 06:07 AM 5/21/2005, you wrote: It is very early am, I can't go to the OVSS in Cinci, so I'll take my frustration out by beating the dead Nostalgia horse. My apologies to everyone. Having an AMA Nostalgia class is good, accept it or not, most entry level into RC Soaring ( non electric) is with a woody, ARF or home built. I don't classify an AVA, etc. as a woody ( beat on that one for a while) because it has a molded wing section. The current NOS rules need to be amended through the AMA process of rules changing ( won't this bring out the know it alls), but NOS will be in trouble because there will be some really goofy rules changes proposed, mostly by people that have no experience of building and flying back in the days of nostalgia and likely no experience flying in a current NOS contest. I truly hope the AMA Nos Nats will
Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating.......again
Ray, Your comments were logical and to the point. I hope to compete in NOS at the Nats in 2005 or 2006. Btw the Challenger was test flown last weekend and it is simply awesome! If I had had one in the 70's and 80's I could been very competitive. Thanks again for kitting this excellent model! Tom Gressman
Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating.......again
Tom, I'll never forget the first time I flew a Challenger, Barney's, that's when I decided to kit the design and also realized how far ahead Otto's design was back in those days. Enjoy and I'll see you in Muncie Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] The NOS dead horse beating...again Ray, Your comments were logical and to the point. I hope to compete in NOS at the Nats in 2005 or 2006. Btw the Challenger was test flown last weekend and it is simply awesome! If I had had one in the 70's and 80's I could been very competitive. Thanks again for kitting this excellent model! Tom Gressman RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] NATS F3J
Looking for room on an F3J Team at the NATS. Any openings? I gave up scoring this year so I could fly. Steve Meyer SOAR LSF IV RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Fw: Winch Batteries
Hi Dave You'll need both.. Aftera full day of flying my battery is down quite a bit so I put it on the10 ampcharger.After it's fully charged I put it on a Sure Charge IV and leave it there till I go Play again. The battery will last a hole lot longer using the Sure Charge IV. Good Luck AL Albert E. Wedworth ( AL ) ERA Capshaw RealestateREALTOR- ASSOCIATECell 530-228-9445Fax 530-343-1715
Re: [RCSE] NATS F3J
I'll be looking for a team to hook up with as well. Anyone interested, please contact me offline. Thx, D __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Winch Batteries
For our club winches at SASS, we use pairs of Trojan 6v batteries, wired in series. These are powerful and durable, but they do get to be a mess when carried around to and from the field for charging. Ive already burned a hole in my shorts from the acid. For my personal winch, I use blue top Optimas, which are just fantastic. They are compact, and never leak. Each one seems to have plenty of power for a day of flying for 5-6 open class planes. I usually bring two for a full day of flying with friends. I tried the yellow top deep cycle and found that they didnt seem to give as much torque. The blue tops are deep cycle/starting marine batteries. --Jim Laurel From: David Whitaker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:43 PM To: RCSE Subject: [RCSE] Winch Batteries I know this was discussed some time ago. And I didn't pay attention then. Now I need the information. What is the best battery to use for winches. Thanks Dave W
[RCSE] Winch Batteries (Like anyone would ever do this) except Steve Lewis
Title: Winch Batteries (Like anyone would ever do this) except Steve Lewis In discussion with an Exide battery engineer a few years ago... I told him what the idea was...simply to dump as much current into the winch as fast as possible, Without any regard for battery life. With those qualities in mind... He told me... Use the cheapest Exide battery you can find that will meet the contest requirements. He further said, THINK THIN PLATES Further...DO not use deep cycle they do not have the ability to dump huge currents like the cheapos...A result of Thick plates... As for whipping a charge on them... Cook them slow at a normal rate for 8 hours or so then place the batteries in a bathtub full of ice ...then blast them for an hour or two at a very high rate...keep the distilled water at the proper levels since they will gas like hell... Then to use the batteryget them hot and launch... Your cheap Exide will deliver about 5 to 6 OUTSTANDING launches...Blow your mind or your plane... Then pull the battery and repeat above process. And if the great and wonderful Bozo says so... PS Barry Kennedy where the hell is my AVA that I paid for early THIS morning at 7:43am Yea, yea I know ...the check is in the mail...
[RCSE] Who the hell is Steve Lewis
Title: Who the hell is Steve Lewis Ifn you dont know... You dont care
[RCSE] Wanted - like new Artemis
I want the + tail, not the V-tail. Please let me know the condition. Preferably without servos. Thanks, Steve Gibson Houston, TX RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Lithium battery disposal
Folks, We have several Lithium Ion/Li-poly cells at work, two of which have gotten pretty bloated. It's my understanding that it would be good to get rid of these pretty quickly - ideally before we burn the building down. What is the best way to get rid of these batteries when they are in this state? Thanks in advance. - Dave attachment: winmail.dat
[RCSE] Davenport ISR
I just got back from the ISR MOM slope races and it was awesome. Wind averaged well over 30 mph and gusting to over 40 mph The lap speed were up near record times. The caliber of pilots, the best, ( th who's who of slope racing but the air was very turbulent and I've never seen more mid-airs and crashes at one event (I lost count after 8)and I left about half way through. The landing also were extra challenging as the rotors were terrible. A sight I'll remember was Walter Lynch body surfing in the Pacific Ocean to recover his errant sailplane. The sun was out, the wind was howling and Davenport was the place to be this Saturday. With all the carnage I never heard one word of complaint or whining. it was slope racing in all it's glory. Ron RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Lithium battery disposal
I put mine in the neighbor's curb-side mailbox:~) DanDave Brombaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks,We have several Lithium Ion/Li-poly cells at work, two of which havegotten pretty bloated.It's my understanding that it would be good to get rid of these prettyquickly - ideally before we burn the building down.What is the best way to get rid of these batteries when they are in thisstate?Thanks in advance.- Dave Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
[RCSE] OVSS #1, aka Full Moon I Beat Gordy!
Today was the opening day of OVSS 2005 at the Cincinnati Soaring Society's Memorial Contest. Amazingly, OVSS is now in its 9th year. Even more amazing, I not only beat Gordy but I won today! Many thanks to my brother Paul and Ed Franz for some great calls today in difficult, changable conditions. The Zenith really did its thing. Top 5 were: 1) Rudy Siegel 2) Jim Bacus 3) Ed Wilson 4) Marc Gellart 5) Gordy Stahl Thanks to Steve Siebenaler, Bob Scheidt, all the CSS guys and John Diniz of Horizon Hobbies for putting on a great show! And to Marc Gellart for a great, enduring series. Thermals, Rudy AMA 131126 CD Rudy Siegel Civis Aerius Sum RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Lithium battery disposal
Hi Dave, Use a light bulb or similar to drain the cell(s) down to zero voltage. Leave the load on there for some time to make sure the cell is truly empty. Once that's done, puncture the plastic envelope in a few places and soak them in very salty water for a day or so. Then you can just throw 'em in the regular trash. My reference is here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2524155postcount=11 Dan Dave Brombaugh wrote: Folks, We have several Lithium Ion/Li-poly cells at work, two of which have gotten pretty bloated. It's my understanding that it would be good to get rid of these pretty quickly - ideally before we burn the building down. What is the best way to get rid of these batteries when they are in this state? Thanks in advance. - Dave RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE]
Guys, Is it possible to program the Stylus with glider card to give a tone based on a specific flap position in landing mode? DJA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #5696
Dave Brombaugh wrote: What is the best way to get rid of these batteries when they are in this state? Dave, The best way to dispose of LiPo cells like this are to put them into salt water. Outside, of course. Mike RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Davenport ISR
Hey Ron Thanks for the photos Your description of sloping at Davenport brings back good memories... There is nothin like a kick ass day at Wadell Creek... A hot ship fully loaded... Man on men... So much wind you cant see... And the only trophy is a bit of slope trash to bring home... Bozo Still waiting for that slow ass AVA... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] OVSS #1, aka Full Moon I Beat Gordy!
Even more amazing, I not only beat Gordy but I won today! Rudy was deadly today! I hung out at the top or top three by a couple of points today for all the rounds, but the final round was a 15 min and the air went pretty stale. I was on winch #1 and decided to go for my own air instead of covering the pack... I came off the line and immediatley turned and burned down wind where I was sure there would be fabulous air which would end up crushing the rest of the guys, but boy was I surprised to find myself immediately at about 100' and scratching...scratchingfor over 12mins. I worked a fart from TJ (current LSF Pres, or at least I think it was from his vicinity) across the field while everyone one else sucked on each other's airI got so far down and away that my Pike was barely visible and not much higher than the treetops... Needless to say it was time to try to limp back to the landing spot, and I did, nearly taking off the heads of most of the pilots and landing thru the backside of the landing area for about 80points, well that is if it counted :-) Rudy? He just plain out flew us. Congrats, and good luck tomorrow, I'll be on my way to Denver for the F3J in the Rockies thing this coming weekend.A good time had by all, and wood to boot! Big atta boy to Ed Wilson who has been in a dry spell for about 15 years wood wize in Unlimited...he beat me too :-) And congrats to one of our newbieswho managed an average of 2:50mins each round of 10, but when faced with a 15, got his Spirit Elite together and his thumb working for 15mins anda 44 landing, to finish off his flight time LSF tasks for LSF2! Gordy
Re: [RCSE] Lithium battery disposal
That procedure for disposing of LiPoly sounds a lot like what people used to do in England in WW2 to disarm an unexploded bomb (OK, so what they were doing was discharging a battery/capacitor that was part of the electric fuse mechanism, not neutralizing a modern type of battery but it has the same sort of ring to it) Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
