[RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and guesses!"

[GordySoar]

Okay I expected the guesses and opinions and assurances.
 
Let's take this one first:
 But, seriously, are you expecting over 40 sailplanes  to be in the air at 
one time at a typical club field? 
 
Those who posted this implied 'everything will be okay'  rationale don't 
attend big events where the problem has never been a  conflict of planes in the 
air, we have clips and impounds and channel  assignments for those.  The guys 
who have 2.4 fell in love with them  especially because they didn't "have to 
worry about pins, clips and impounds any  more" . Now you can just pull up put 
your plane together, turn on and fly...even  on Visalia Friday.  There is a lot 
more than 50 guys with sailplanes  wanting to fly, assemble, program etc on 
any given major contest day. On is on,  regardless of if the models are in the 
air.
 
ON means transmissions.  How is the CD gonna handle 2.4  count and amounts 
when their owners feel they are safe to turn on at any  time?  Back to pins on 
this time they represent count instead of freq  channel?  1 thru 39?
 
The next one that I didn't see addressed is the 'mixing'  part...what happens 
when you have Futa, Xtreme, Spectrum, Airtronics, and the  Chinese show up 
together...regardless of numbers.
 
Then there is this one:  Ed asked :"Why don't  you organize a test "
Why would I?  My hobby is to build and fly sailplanes, my  job is to sell 
beach cleaners. Ed, why don't you ask the suppliers of 2.4  stuff to work for 
their pay?  Why haven't you? You post assurances and  promote as if you have 
some 
cash interest in 2.4.  You repeat  hearsay about a heli event with 500  
pilots and then guess at how many  TX's were turned on at the time, using it as 
some 'proof' that the deal is  done.  Do you have a clue as to how much parking 
alone it would take to  host 500 pilots?  I think before repeating that 'proof' 
you might want to  investigate it instead of just repeating it.  I know the 
source, that  doesn't make it valid.  Are you going to tell me that less than 
40 guys had  their TX's on all at once with 500 on the field?
 
So far at best 2.4 sort of works, if the install is just right,  if the 
models materials are cooperative and 'should' work fine with other 2.4  
systems..as 
long as their aren't too many TX's on at one timebut no one has  come up 
with control system to protect against or even determine who will be  turning 
on in the pits.
 
So what's the skinnyhow many of you realized that it is  possible to be 
shot down with 2.4, that less than our current 50 TX's can be  running at once 
and no one is too sure about how many of a mix of brand systems  are safe?

Was just wondering that's all :-)?
 
Gordy
Glenwood Springs Co
 
 



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Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"

[ivanbrian]

Just kidding of course.   (grin) Right Gory er Gordy..? Brian
  - Original Message - 
  From: Darwin N. Barrie 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Steve Schneider ; RCSE 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 10:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"


  The more that jump to 2.4, the less using 72. The "moron" factor is thereby 
reduced on 72!!
  I haven't had a problem on 72 and have only witnessed maybe 6 shootdowns in 
40+ years of RC. 

  Darwin
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: Darwin N. Barrie ; Steve Schneider ; RCSE 
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"


Would you rather fly where only one person can shoot you down or where it 
would take 40? (grin)  2.4 and lovin' every minute of it.. Brian
  - Original Message - 
  From: Darwin N. Barrie 
  To: Steve Schneider ; RCSE 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 9:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"


  The only type of contest I know of that is pretty unlimited in amount of 
transmitters out is a soaring event. I have counted 32 planes in the air at 
Visalia. Could be more at times.

  I could be wrong but most events (powered aircraft) limit the amount of 
transmitters out  (based on flight stations) at any one time. The IRCHA heli 
event may be an exception.

  I had heard the magic number for 2.4 is 41. Who knows for sure. That is 
one reason why I'm not ready to completely abandon 72 mhz.

  Darwin N. Barrie
  Chandler AZ


--


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12:18 PM

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and guesses!"

[Kai Yang]

Correct me if I am wrong.
What I am hearing is if there are over 40 SS system turn-on at the same time, 
the 41th one won't be able to send out signal. It won't shut down other 
people's plane but just cannot fly your own plane.

 -Kai
※ 引述《"GordySoar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>》之郵件內容：Okay I expected the guesses and 
opinions and assurances.
 
Let's take this one first:
 But, seriously, are you expecting over 40 sailplanes to be in the air at 
one time at a typical club field? 
 
Those who posted this implied 'everything will be okay' rationale don't attend 
big events where the problem has never been a conflict of planes in the air, we 
have clips and impounds and channel assignments for those.  The guys who have 
2.4 fell in love with them especially because they didn't "have to worry about 
pins, clips and impounds any more" . Now you can just pull up put your plane 
together, turn on and fly...even on Visalia Friday.  There is a lot more than 
50 guys with sailplanes wanting to fly, assemble, program etc on any given 
major contest day. On is on, regardless of if the models are in the air.
 
ON means transmissions.  How is the CD gonna handle 2.4 count and amounts when 
their owners feel they are safe to turn on at any time?  Back to pins on this 
time they represent count instead of freq channel?  1 thru 39?
 
The next one that I didn't see addressed is the 'mixing' part...what happens 
when you have Futa, Xtreme, Spectrum, Airtronics, and the Chinese show up 
together...regardless of numbers.
 
Then there is this one:  Ed asked :"Why don't you organize a test "
Why would I?  My hobby is to build and fly sailplanes, my job is to sell beach 
cleaners. Ed, why don't you ask the suppliers of 2.4 stuff to work for their 
pay?  Why haven't you? You post assurances and promote as if you have some cash 
interest in 2.4.  You repeat hearsay about a heli event with 500  pilots and 
then guess at how many TX's were turned on at the time, using it as some 
'proof' that the deal is done.  Do you have a clue as to how much parking alone 
it would take to host 500 pilots?  I think before repeating that 'proof' you 
might want to investigate it instead of just repeating it.  I know the source, 
that doesn't make it valid.  Are you going to tell me that less than 40 guys 
had their TX's on all at once with 500 on the field?
 
So far at best 2.4 sort of works, if the install is just right, if the models 
materials are cooperative and 'should' work fine with other 2.4 systems..as 
long as their aren't too many TX's on at one timebut no one has come up 
with control system to protect against or even determine who will be turning on 
in the pits.
 
So what's the skinnyhow many of you realized that it is possible to be shot 
down with 2.4, that less than our current 50 TX's can be running at once and no 
one is too sure about how many of a mix of brand systems are safe?

Was just wondering that's all :-)?
 
Gordy
Glenwood Springs Co
 
 



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--
Kai Yang
Novas Software, Inc.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://cadlab.ece.ucsb.edu/~kyang
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: (CELL)805-296-9592 (OFFICE)408-467-7889
--

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"

[ivanbrian]

Are you saying all the morons are on 72 with you and Gory?   
  - Original Message - 
  From: Darwin N. Barrie 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Steve Schneider ; RCSE 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 10:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"


  The more that jump to 2.4, the less using 72. The "moron" factor is thereby 
reduced on 72!!
  I haven't had a problem on 72 and have only witnessed maybe 6 shootdowns in 
40+ years of RC. 

  Darwin
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: Darwin N. Barrie ; Steve Schneider ; RCSE 
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"


Would you rather fly where only one person can shoot you down or where it 
would take 40? (grin)  2.4 and lovin' every minute of it.. Brian
  - Original Message - 
  From: Darwin N. Barrie 
  To: Steve Schneider ; RCSE 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 9:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"


  The only type of contest I know of that is pretty unlimited in amount of 
transmitters out is a soaring event. I have counted 32 planes in the air at 
Visalia. Could be more at times.

  I could be wrong but most events (powered aircraft) limit the amount of 
transmitters out  (based on flight stations) at any one time. The IRCHA heli 
event may be an exception.

  I had heard the magic number for 2.4 is 41. Who knows for sure. That is 
one reason why I'm not ready to completely abandon 72 mhz.

  Darwin N. Barrie
  Chandler AZ


--


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.8/1196 - Release Date: 12/25/2007 
12:18 PM

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and ...

[Wwing]

In a message dated 12/26/2007 2:18:56 AM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Okay I expected the guesses and opinions and assurances.

Let's take this one first:
But, seriously, are you expecting over 40 sailplanes to be in the air at 
one time at a typical club field? 

Those who posted this implied 'everything will be okay' rationale don't 
attend big events where the problem has never been a conflict of planes in the 
air, 
we have clips and impounds and channel assignments for those.  The guys who 
have 2.4 fell in love with them especially because they didn't "have to worry 
about pins, clips and impounds any more" . Now you can just pull up put your 
plane together, turn on and fly...even on Visalia Friday.  There is a lot more 
than 50 guys with sailplanes wanting to fly, assemble, program etc on any given 
major contest day. On is on, regardless of if the models are in the air.

ON means transmissions.  How is the CD gonna handle 2.4 count and amounts 
when their owners feel they are safe to turn on at any time?  Back to pins on 
this time they represent count instead of freq channel?  1 thru 39?

The next one that I didn't see addressed is the 'mixing' part...what happens 
when you have Futa, Xtreme, Spectrum, Airtronics, and the Chinese show up 
together...regardless of numbers.

 
I gotta go with Yogi Berra on this one, "Nobody flies 2.4 anymore. It's too 
crowded."
 
Bill Wingstedt
 



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[RCSE] The Sky is falling

[aeajr]

Gordy,
 
I always find your posts interesting.  You create conflicts and concerns about 
topics, thereby getting us thinking.  In this respect you make a valuable 
contribution.  But when you start to attack and belittle people who agree with 
you, well that's Gordy for you.  We expect that of you.  It is your style.  It 
is what creates the "love/hate Gordy" feeling so many people have toward you, 
and we know you love it.
 
I agreed with  you, that the 500 heili pilots was no proof that you could have 
500 radios on at once.  We don't know how many were on so a critical number may 
never have been reached.  Why?  Because it was not done in any sort of 
organized fashion.  I agreed with you, fool. Silly Gordy!
 
As to why I suggested YOU should organize a test, Gordy, well you asked the 
question.  That is why YOU should want to do it.
 
Gordy, YOU are the guy who is concerned.  And,  YOU are the the one who attends 
so many of these events.  That means YOU are among the few who could do this.  
Or is answering your own questions too much work for YOU?
 
If you have a question to which you can provide the answer, why not make a 
contribution to the knowledge base rather than just stirring the pot?  I, among 
many here, would be very grateful for the answer. 
 
Why don't I do it?  Because I am not concerned, at this point.  The chances of 
me being in such a situation in the next 2 years is pretty slim.  If you want 
to whine and wait for me to do it, that is fine.  I am OK with that.  But YOU 
will likely be in such a situation several times this year.  Just contact the 
CD at one of the events you plan to attend and see if they would like to do 
this with you.
 
Let me even suggest the procedure, to be performed in cooperation with the 
event organizers.  Oh, and by the way, it doesn't have to be a sailplane event, 
just an event with a large number of 2.4 GHz transmitters, preferably with 
mixed brands.  And it would be best, Gordy, if YOU supervised it, as you would 
not accept or trust anything done by anyone else.  And frankly why should you?  
You have the opportunity to do this, where most of us do not.
 
Here is the test.
 
Get all the 2.4 pilots to perform a range check on their models, all at the 
same time.  
 
No one need be in the air, no models need be risked and no one put in danger.
 
Range check would be to MFG specs, not some absurd distance or in some crazy 
way.
 
Total time to perform the test?  Probably about 15 minutes 
 
Then poll the group.  Anyone have a problem?  Anyone fail the range check test? 
 
 
If so, then YOU, in cooperation with the CD, could suggest if further 
examination were required.  Or, if problems appeared, then the CD could decided 
if system count pins should be instituded on the spot, for safety sake.  A few 
packs of clothes pins could be kept hand, just in case.
 
Total cost for the test?  Zero.
 
Value to the community, high!  Naturally YOU could suggest some extensive test 
procedure, but this would be pretty simple to perform as a first step.  
 
And best of all, the test was supervised by Gordy, the guy who asked the 
question. If a problem occured, you could be the one who discovered it.  Or you 
can run the test and find this is not a problem and put all our minds at ease.  
What a great opportunity YOU have.
 
Up to you Gordy.  Wait and wonder, or find the answer for yourself, if you are 
really interested.  Then let us know.
 
Lead, follow, or get out of the way!  
 
Ed Anderson
LISF
 
> --
> 
> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:18:27 EST
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: Soaring@airage.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 
> 'assurances and guesses!"

> 
> Then there is this one: Ed asked :"Why don't you organize a test "
> Why would I? My hobby is to build and fly sailplanes, my job 
> is to sell  beach cleaners. Ed, why don't you ask the suppliers of 2.4 
> stuff to work for their pay? Why haven't you? You post assurances and promote 
> as 
> if you have some cash interest in 2.4. You repeat hearsay about a heli event 
> with 500  pilots and then guess at how many TX's were turned on at the 
> time, using it as some 'proof' that the deal is done. Do you have a clue as 
> to 
> how much parking alone it would take to host 500 pilots? I think before 
> repeating that 'proof' you might want to investigate it instead of just 
> repeating it. 
> I know the source, that doesn't make it valid. Are you going to tell me 
> that less than 40 guys had their TX's on all at once with 500 on the field?
> 
> So far at best 2.4 sort of works, if the install is just right, if the 
> models materials are cooperative and 'should' work fine with 
> other 2.4 systems..as long as their aren't too many TX's on at one 
> timebut no one 
> has come up with control system to protect against or even determine who 
> will be turning on in the pits.

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Gordy Does it again !!

[Jack Strother]

Good Morning Folks!
I Not so sure that it is a record, however, Gordy either starts the year or 
ends the year in contorversy!  
Go figure.
Some of us in the Mid west and south of Michigian, that organize "Big" 
Contests, 
Like the Nats,  and on the club level, before the libs took over, have been 
pondering this very issue.
And it could be a real issue,
In the days past we would set matraces to "Help" protect the contestant, with 
the exception of the stupid turn on and shoot down.
I have been flying for 40 years and I have seen more than my share of shoot 
downs, wether it be a contest OR just plain club flying stupid always shows up 
at the field.

2.4g for me, is very exciting, can't wait till I get one, however, I am not in 
a real big rush. 
My 72 Mhz, Airtronics, Mpx 4000, and JR 9303 Stuff works very well, My Futuba 
stuff is in a box in the corner,
and I can afford to sit back and watch what shakes out of the whole mixture.

I Think that Gordy is right, more testing should have been done by the 
manufracturers, internally, or at least by the  Technical Director of the AMA, 
who assisted in the blessing of  of the system.
Intermodulation and Noise issues previously mentioned, should be of a real 
concern!

As always, this stuff will get hacked out on the "Competion" circuit(s), just 
as many of the designs for our sailplanes and improvements for our end of the 
hobby have. 
That way, he who contests not, can express major opinions on just how and why 
the industry should or should not react to the given situtation.

I suspect that more people are on this issue than we know about.

Good Thread Gordy, and Yes, I have had my New License for a month or so...

Merry Merry, and Happy, Happy


--
Jack Strother   
Granger, IN 

LSF 2948
LSF Level V  #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold



--- Begin Message ---



Okay I expected the guesses and opinions and assurances.
 
Let's take this one first:
 But, seriously, are you expecting over 40 sailplanes 
to be in the air at one time at a typical club field? 
 
Those who posted this implied 'everything will be okay' 
rationale don't attend big events where the problem has never been a 
conflict of planes in the air, we have clips and impounds and channel 
assignments for those.  The guys who have 2.4 fell in love with them 
especially because they didn't "have to worry about pins, clips and impounds any 
more" . Now you can just pull up put your plane together, turn on and fly...even 
on Visalia Friday.  There is a lot more than 50 guys with sailplanes 
wanting to fly, assemble, program etc on any given major contest day. On is on, 
regardless of if the models are in the air.
 
ON means transmissions.  How is the CD gonna handle 2.4 
count and amounts when their owners feel they are safe to turn on at any 
time?  Back to pins on this time they represent count instead of freq 
channel?  1 thru 39?
 
The next one that I didn't see addressed is the 'mixing' 
part...what happens when you have Futa, Xtreme, Spectrum, Airtronics, and the 
Chinese show up together...regardless of numbers.
 
Then there is this one:  Ed asked :"Why don't 
you organize a test "
Why would I?  My hobby is to build and fly sailplanes, my 
job is to sell beach cleaners. Ed, why don't you ask the suppliers of 2.4 
stuff to work for their pay?  Why haven't you? You post assurances and 
promote as if you have some cash interest in 2.4.  You repeat 
hearsay about a heli event with 500  pilots and then guess at how many 
TX's were turned on at the time, using it as some 'proof' that the deal is 
done.  Do you have a clue as to how much parking alone it would take to 
host 500 pilots?  I think before repeating that 'proof' you might want to 
investigate it instead of just repeating it.  I know the source, that 
doesn't make it valid.  Are you going to tell me that less than 40 guys had 
their TX's on all at once with 500 on the field?
 
So far at best 2.4 sort of works, if the install is just right, 
if the models materials are cooperative and 'should' work fine with other 2.4 
systems..as long as their aren't too many TX's on at one timebut no one has 
come up with control system to protect against or even determine who will be 
turning on in the pits.
 
So what's the skinnyhow many of you realized that it is 
possible to be shot down with 2.4, that less than our current 50 TX's can be 
running at once and no one is too sure about how many of a mix of brand systems 
are safe?
Was just wondering that's all :-)?
 
GordyGlenwood Springs Co
 
 See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
--- End Message ---

[RCSE] 2.4

[ivanbrian]

As is normal on RCSE if you say "anything" it will be taken out of context by 
someone. 
  YUP.. I'm so happy with my DX7s and the X9303 that I'll probably start 
giggling soon.  ;o)  For me it was the best thing since the original 
red/white-green/white-yellow/white.. Remember that? I'll start worrying about 
2.4 when I start hearing pilots going down screaming 2.4- 2.4 -2.4 instead of 
Ch 26 Ch 26 ch26..  All the rest of the "WHAT IF's" Don't bother me at all.. I 
have been on 2.4 for nearly a year and I feel like I already have my moneys 
worth of, I  can't launch the wrong model and freedom of a shoot down as did 
nearly happen twice in the last couple months on 72 with my Giant Scale gas 
models.
 -BUT- no where, no how, did I ever criticize or condemn anyone for staying on 
72.  If your happy, I'm happy that your happy. HOWZAT?  Grin -Smile.. I still 
love y'all!!  Even Gordy.  Brian Smith

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Gordy Does it again !!

[Chuck Anderson]

At 08:30 AM 12/26/2007, you wrote:
2.4g for me, is very exciting, can't wait till I get one, however, I 
am not in a real big rush.
My 72 Mhz, Airtronics, Mpx 4000, and JR 9303 Stuff works very well, 
My Futuba stuff is in a box in the corner,

and I can afford to sit back and watch what shakes out of the whole mixture.


I agree with Jack except that  I have converted my backup Evo to 2.4 
in order to experiment with 2.4.  I refuse to go back to plastic 
porcupines just to get 2.4 so my only choice was to use XPS.  XPS 
does not yet offer an end plug receiver that will fit in my 
sailplanes so I have flown my XPS only in an old model that I keep 
for flight testing radio equipment.  No need to rush since my Evo 
with Hitec Superslime receivers still does everything I need and 
there are no local fliers on my frequency.  I may convert some of my 
sailplanes when suitable receivers become available but see no need 
to rush out and buy more 2.4 receivers before I have to.


Chuck  


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Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and guesses!"

[Doug McLaren]

Kai Yang and Gordy each wrote some of the quoted material --

|What I am hearing is if there are over 40 SS system turn-on at
|the same time, the 41th one won't be able to send out signal. It
|won't shut down other people's plane but just cannot fly your own
|plane.

That's the Spektrum DX6 story, and it might extend to the DSM2 stuff
too.  Other brands and models have different limits/failure modes.
XPS gave a chart because they felt it put their system in a better
light.

And I'm not sure who this `general modeler' is that Gordy is referring
to -- pretty much everybody, perhaps outside of Spektrum's marketing
department, is aware that there are some sorts of limits.

| But, seriously, are you expecting over 40 sailplanes to be in
| the air at one time at a typical club field?

To be fair, you have to worry about planes on the ground too.  Well,
really, you're worried about transmitters, not planes.  And not all
fields are typical ...

|ON means transmissions.  How is the CD gonna handle 2.4 count and
|amounts when their owners feel they are safe to turn on at any
|time?

Well, once these limits are exceeded (and perhaps even as they're
approached) things will start to degrade, but there should not be
overt failures, except for Spektrum transmitters unable to find unused
channels (which happens while your plane is on the ground, so it's
inconvenient, but not a disaster.)  Planes should not start crashing
just because somebody turned on the 41st transmitter (but with 72 MHz
and 50 planes in the air, a plane WILL crash when the 51st transmitter
turns on.)  Perhaps latency will increase (I'd expect that especially
with the Futaba system) and perhaps maximum range might go down, but
in general the problems should be mild.

The CDs and pilots will learn to adapt, to somehow limit the number of
transmitters turned on at any given time to some figure if needed.
They could do an impound, pins, whatever.  And if somebody
ignores this, well, warn or punish them when caught -- but at least
it's not likely to cause problems unless many people ignore it.

It will certainly be better than the current system, where if one guy
accidently turns on when he doesn't have the pin, somebody might crash.

|The next one that I didn't see addressed is the 'mixing' part...what
|happens when you have Futa, Xtreme, Spectrum, Airtronics, and the
|Chinese show up together...regardless of numbers.

Yes, should be interesting.  And yes, it has been addressed, and is
addressed every time there's a large event.  Well, at least
Futaba/XPS/Spektrum ... dunno about Aitronics or anything from China.
And sure, there's room for more testing.

|Then there is this one:  Ed asked :"Why don't you organize a test "
| 
|Why would I?  My hobby is to build and fly sailplanes, my job is to
|sell beach cleaners.

Where does posting to RCSE fall into this?  Hobby or job?  You're in a
excellent position to organize some sort of impromptu test, and you
don't even need to host your own event.  You also don't need 500
pilots -- 50 SS TX's and planes would be good, 100 even more
interesting.

|So far at best 2.4 sort of works, if the install is just right,
|if the models materials are cooperative and 'should' work fine
|with other 2.4 systems..as long as their aren't too many TX's on
|at one timebut no one has come up with control system to
|protect against or even determine who will be turning on in the
|pits.

Of course, *everything* you've just said applies to 72 MHz too.

And the 72 MHz impound/pin systems work fine with spread spectrum gear
(with minor adjustments to loosen the rules up, and of course, these
systems still don't provide protection against troublemakers who turn
on in the pits (or parking lot!) and still don't tell who is doing
it.)

If you like 72 MHz, use it.  It's not going away.  In fact, you should
be telling people how great 2.4 GHz is -- the more people on 2.4 GHz,
the fewer people on 72 MHz ...

|So what's the skinnyhow many of you realized that it is
|possible to be shot down with 2.4,

If `all of you' = readers of RCSE, probably most of us.  It's just
harder.

|that less than our current 50 TX's can be running at once

As soon as Spektrum said `1 MHz channels', `2 channels in use
simultaneously' and `80 MHz' band, people were doing the math.

|and no one is too sure about how many of a mix of brand
|systems are safe?

With 72 MHz gear, we're quite aware that 51 simultaneous systems is
unsafe -- and you can only reach 50 through *extreme* luck or careful
planning.  And even if everybody has their own channel, problems are
still possible, either with out of tune gear, 2IM or 3IM interference,
poor receivers ... it's amazing it works as well as it does.

If a number of pilots show up on random 72 MHz channels, it only takes
*9* for there to be a better than 50% chance of somebody getting shot
down without some sort of frequ

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"

[John Erickson]

Gordy,

We know that you fly every day of the year, in every part of the world.
Considering that you attend maybe 4 contests a year where there are more
than 40 participants, that means that 99% of the time (literally) you can
fly worry free with a 2.4 gz. System.

I¹m not a marketing guy, I¹m not a statistics guy, I just enjoy taking out
my handlaunch on the Futaba 2.4 system and flying it anywhere without
worrying about what channel anyone is on.  As long as a CD in a large
contest still has impound, the scenario you described literally cannot take
place.

Your post came on Christmas Day.  How about celebrating the 99% instead of
focusing on the 1%?

JE
--
Erickson Architects
John R. Erickson, AIA



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:15:00 EST
To: Soaring@airage.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"

Number of systems that can be in use simultaneously
Spectrum  Airtronics  Futaba  Xtreme
 39   38 (?)   ? 120
 

Got these from the XtremePowerSystems site (letting the Christmas turkey
settle to make room for pie and this was something I had been thinking about
for awhile, so decided to do a little Googling).
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the general modeler believed that
with 2.4 all concerns for freq control were overMillions could all be on
at once...there was the story about the huge heli event with hundreds of
attendees most enjoying the freedom of 2.4hmmmn.
 
Did you all believe that the amount of 2.4 TXs on at once was almost
unlimited?
 
Here's another wrench in the freq paradise workswhat about a mix of
brands and systems?  Some using two channels at once, some hopping around.
 
Regardless of the information encoding, radio waves are still radio waves,
and can be shaded, mixed and diluted.
 
How do you control 100+ contestants 2.4 TX's when there isn't any channel
assignments?  Impound every TX and only let up to 39 of one brand at a time?
>From 50 channels controlled to 38 hopefully safe?
 
Just wondering, if anyone else is wondering...oh yeah Merry Chrismas!
 
I got my new AMA card...you?
 
Gordy




See AOL's top rated recipes
  and easy
ways to stay in shape
  for
winter.

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"

[LJolly]

 
Guys,
I don't know what is more scary.. The Mysterious Pilot # 41 waiting to  shoot 
me down out there. Or the Fact that Gordy has now become the expert on 2.4  
Mgz Integration. I love Gordy as much as the rest of you but remember when We  
took Aero 101 From the Stahl Master. I took all the rudders off my  airplanes 
because they didn't need them. The fact of the matter is this is an  over 
simplified view of the 2.4 question. I jumped to 2.4 in September, that is  all 
I 
fly now. Once you fly 2.4 and find that you have no Electric Glitches from  
your ESC, The controls are quicker, and you can fly when you want where you 
want 
 you won't go back. All my 72 Mhz stuff is for Sale. In fact I am inviting  
all you 72 Die Hards to come check out My Airtronics Going Out of Business sale 
 at Phoenix. Everything is available. See you there Larry

Number of systems that can be in use  simultaneously   
Spectrum  Airtronics   Futaba  Xtreme
 39   38  (?)?  120
 

Got these from the XtremePowerSystems site (letting the Christmas  turkey 
settle to make room for pie and this was something I had been thinking  about 
for 
awhile, so decided to do a little Googling).
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the general modeler believed that  
with 2.4 all concerns for freq control were overMillions could all be on  
at 
once...there was the story about the huge heli event with hundreds of  
attendees most enjoying the freedom of 2.4hmmmn.
 
Did you all believe that the amount of 2.4 TXs on at once was almost  
unlimited?
 
Here's another wrench in the freq paradise workswhat about a mix of  
brands and systems?  Some using two channels at once, some hopping  around.
 
Regardless of the information encoding, radio waves are still radio  waves, 
and can be shaded, mixed and diluted.
 
How do you control 100+ contestants 2.4 TX's when there isn't any channel  
assignments?  Impound every TX and only let up to 39 of one brand at a  time?  
>From 50 channels controlled to 38 hopefully safe?
 
Just wondering, if anyone else is wondering...oh yeah Merry  Chrismas!
 
I got my new AMA card...you?
 
Gordy



 

 See AOL's _top rated recipes_ 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)  and _easy 
ways to stay in shape_ 
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop000303)  for  
winter.



 



**See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)

[RCSE] Re: "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and guesses!"

[SteveR]

Beach cleaners?


-- 
SteveR

SteveR's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=7591
View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=790835

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[RCSE] Re: "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?"

[aeajr]

Thanks for reposting that Phil.

Ed

Phil Barnes Wrote: 
> I printed out the following post by Mike Lachowski. It specifically
> refers 
> to JR 2.4Ghz systems. I can't remember where it was originally posted,
> maybe 
> on RCSE, maybe on RCgroups:
> 
> --
> posted by Mike Lachowski:
> 
> "And on the 40 channel topic, the original DX-6 transmitted
> continuously on 
> each of two channels in the band. The newer stuff only ransmits for
> very 
> short periods of time. You can see it on a wireless LAN sniffer if you
> know 
> anyone who has one. So even if you have two pilots using the same two 
> frequencies, they will each only be using a small part of the available
> 
> bandwidth."
> 
> end quote
> -


-- 
aeajr

aeajr's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=16056
View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=790745

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text format

[RCSE] Fw: Soaring V1 #10566

[Mike Fox]

Hi guys,

From what I was told from the new Airtronics guys, During testing, they 
turned a whole bunch of Tx's on, over the magic number, on they all worked, 
No shoot downs, but the problem was they slowed down, Still had control. 
The Airtronics stuff will be simular to the F brand, always jumping.


Maybe just a whole bunch of info going back and forth and always jumping, 
that band with might get a little crouded?


Mike Fox




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"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

[RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver

[Joe Rodriguez]

The BLOW OUT CONTINUES

FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 92985 72Mhz Receiver this receiver is NEW never used.
Dual conversion works with Stylus or Vision

Smokin deal $20 shipped CONUS (-:

PayPal preferred 


smokinjoe

and I do NOT have any SHARON'S 

Re: [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver

[Michael Morjoseph]

Did somebody say they had a Sharon??
Just Checking
Got Milk??
Got Sharon??
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Rodriguez 
  To: RCSE (E-mail) 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:50 PM
  Subject: [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver


  The BLOW OUT CONTINUES

  FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 92985 72Mhz Receiver this receiver is NEW never used.
  Dual conversion works with Stylus or Vision

  Smokin deal $20 shipped CONUS (-:

  PayPal preferred 


  smokinjoe

  and I do NOT have any SHARON'S 

Re: [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver

[Jeff Carr]

On RCGroups

Looks like a nice one


On 12/26/07, Michael Morjoseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Did somebody say they had a Sharon??
> Just Checking
> Got Milk??
> Got Sharon??
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Joe Rodriguez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* RCSE (E-mail) 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:50 PM
> *Subject:* [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver
>
>
> The BLOW OUT CONTINUES
>
> FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 92985 72Mhz Receiver this receiver is NEW never used.
> Dual conversion works with Stylus or Vision
>
> Smokin deal $20 shipped CONUS (-:
>
> PayPal preferred
>
>
> smokinjoe
>
> and I do NOT have any SHARON'S
>
>

[RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS STYLUS GLIDER CARD MANUAL

[Joe Rodriguez]

FOR SALE AIRTRONICS STYLUS GLIDER CARD MANUAL

Smokin deal $10 shipped CONUS

PayPal preferred 

Smokinjoe

[RCSE] SOLD* FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver

[Joe Rodriguez]

SOLD SOLD SOLD,,, sold   somebody got a Smokin deal  (-:

smokinjoe


  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Rodriguez 
  To: RCSE (E-mail) 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:50 PM
  Subject: FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver


  The BLOW OUT CONTINUES

  FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 92985 72Mhz Receiver this receiver is NEW never used.
  Dual conversion works with Stylus or Vision

  Smokin deal $20 shipped CONUS (-:

  PayPal preferred 


  smokinjoe

  and I do NOT have any SHARON'S 

Re: [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver

[Darwin N. Barrie]

Gee, same price as mine and mine has all Futaba digitals, and a FIVE cell, 
brand new nimh pack. I'll even deliver it to Ontario CA when I come out to the 
AMA convention in two weeks. 

FYI, I've seen one of that shade of green fly and it disappears in everything 
but clear blue skies!!!

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Morjoseph 
  To: Joe Rodriguez ; RCSE (E-mail) 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 6:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver


  Did somebody say they had a Sharon??
  Just Checking
  Got Milk??
  Got Sharon??
- Original Message - 
From: Joe Rodriguez 
To: RCSE (E-mail) 
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: [RCSE] FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 72Mhz Receiver


The BLOW OUT CONTINUES

FOR SALE AIRTRONICS 92985 72Mhz Receiver this receiver is NEW never used.
Dual conversion works with Stylus or Vision

Smokin deal $20 shipped CONUS (-:

PayPal preferred 


smokinjoe

and I do NOT have any SHARON'S 

Fwd: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and guesses!"

[Kevin O'Dell]

Begin forwarded message:

basically...the mixing systems shouldn't be any issue.  The  
Futaba systems represent momentary narrow band emissions and as  
such will not interfere with the Direct Sequence system used by JR/ 
Spektrum.when you get 39 JR/Spektrum radios on at the same  
time, then number 40 will not be able to achieve a lock with the  
receiver.that one won't be able to fly till one of the other  
ones is turned off...none of the other ones currently on will be  
affected by the 40th one..the Futaba and JR systems use VERY  
different Spread Spectrum systems...the Futaba frequency  
hopping system basically uses a narrow band signal but change the  
frequency across a wide spectrum..the JR/Spektrum Direct  
Sequence system literally spreads the data packets across a wide  
spectrum.the great part about this is when the receiver puts  
all of this back together.the direct sequence system reduces  
the background interference to a minimum..


Kevin O'Dell

[RCSE] 3 meter Fox - FOR SALE

[glider1218]

Hi All, 

I've got a beautiful ship that is looking for a home.  It's a 3 meter Fox.  I 
bought it used a couple years ago, did some enhancement work on it, flew it a 
few times, and am ready to move on.  It's a great ship, but it doesn't see much 
airtime with me.  I'm in the Denver area, so if you're local, we can avoid the 
shipping.  $300 and it's yours. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send 
pics.

Thanks, 

Chris


  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Re: [RCSE] "Jack Benny is 39 and 2.4 is 38?" Thanks for the 'assurances and guesses!"

[Rob Davis]

I would expect the spektrum limit and what happens when the "channels" are
occupied was addressed to the AMA's satisfaction.  Perhaps asking Steve
Kaluf is in order.  He's the AMA tech guy.

Rob

On Dec 26, 2007 9:20 PM, Kevin O'Dell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> basically...the mixing systems shouldn't be any issue.  The Futaba
> systems represent momentary narrow band emissions and as such will not
> interfere with the Direct Sequence system used by JR/Spektrum.when you
> get 39 JR/Spektrum radios on at the same time, then number 40 will not be
> able to achieve a lock with the receiver.that one won't be able to fly
> till one of the other ones is turned off...none of the other ones currently
> on will be affected by the 40th one..the Futaba and JR systems use VERY
> different Spread Spectrum systems...the Futaba frequency hopping system
> basically uses a narrow band signal but change the frequency across a wide
> spectrum..the JR/Spektrum Direct Sequence system literally spreads the
> data packets across a wide spectrum.the great part about this is when
> the receiver puts all of this back together.the direct sequence system
> reduces the background interference to a minimum..
> Kevin O'Dell
>
>
>