[RCSE] Comparing the Eraser to the Fazer
Hi folks, Anyone have any experience with both the Fazer and Eraser? I've heard extremely good things about the Fazer as an F3B ship, but a friend was wondering about whether it would be a better or worse choice than the Eraser for TD. Any help appreciated! Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Electric Tug Drive for Sale
Darn...third time lucky?: http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4641 Worst case, please go to www.liftzone.com, and click on the article on the Ultrastick 120. Cheers, Adam Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:13:00 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Electric Tug Drive for Sale Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry, link should be: http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=3D4641 Sorry, it did not work for me. Dennis RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Anyone have an F3B model for sale? Need practice ship...
Hi folks, Thanks for all the responses. Just sorting through them now, and I'll get back to everyone ASAP. Cheers, Adam Adam Till (Cal) wrote: Before I get lured away by a friend wanting to split shipping on some scale models, does anyone have any F3B models for sale that would make good practice ships? There's a group of us who have decided to learn to fly the tasks properly this season, and from what I've been learning my Erasers might not cut it. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Electric Tug Drive for Sale
Hi folks, If anyone is looking for a quiet alternative for towing moderate-sized scale sailplanes, I have just the ticket. I'm selling an Aveox 1817/4Y, Hacker Master 48 Opto, and a Tom Hunt belt drive. Same drive that was featured in the following article: http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4641 Works okay in a slow model like a Telemaster, but works really well in an UltraStick 120 Lite or similar. All bugs have been cleared up, and we've had a lots of great tows on it. Could include a 20x13E prop, but that might increase shipping Selling because we've got big sailplanes in the club now, and so have gone gas. This setup happily towed a Roedel 4m ASK21. Would also be a good match for a larger motorglider, especially since it's so quiet. Will sell all the drive components for $500 cdn + shipping ($400US), or $600 cdn with a 30 cell kapton nicad pack (about 30 cycles, carefully maintained) or 30 new, loose GP3300 cells. Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Electric Tug Drive for Sale
-- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:18:50 -0700 From: Adam Till \(Cal\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Electric Tug Drive for Sale Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry, link should be: http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4641 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Anyone have an F3B model for sale? Need practice ship...
Hi folks, Before I get lured away by a friend wanting to split shipping on some scale models, does anyone have any F3B models for sale that would make good practice ships? There's a group of us who have decided to learn to fly the tasks properly this season, and from what I've been learning my Erasers might not cut it. Then again, I could solve the problem by just doing both :) Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] The perfect platform or Not....
I can use LiftRoll to adjust twist to make it look like an elipse or not, but how do I generate the comparison number from my origional post, IE wing 1 will have min sink of 1 fps and wing 2 will have minimum sink of X fps? You don't necessarily want an elliptical lift distribution in a real-world model, since that might result in turning behaviour that is a little scary at times if your airfoil selections aren't correct. You're really looking to optimize cruise here, right? (ie min power setting for level flight). Look into the power factor calculation available from xfoil/profili. Flight power is proportional to CD/CL^1.5, but remember that CD is the total airframe drag coefficient, so working with the airfoil Cd along isn't going to give you the full picture. How do I use LiftRoll to get a wing Cd, Cl given a polar Cl, Cd? Very simple...you can't. It's not designed to be able to give you this information, since at no point does it incorporate actual airfoil data. In LiftRoll is av/mx Cl the Cl I want to optimize for? That's a planform efficiency number, giving you a measure of how aggressive the planform design is. Real-world meaning: a high efficiency number will require a more competent pilot, since upon reaching stall more of the wing will let go at the same time. Compromising this measure will result in a model that's easier to fly over a wide range of conditions. How do I go about guessing an AOA? (Again from the airfoil polar? ) Don't bother...I've already made a sheet that will calculate it for you (overall Cd, wing drag, tail drag etc). You need to know the weight of the model (assuming you're calculating a level flight condition, ie weight=lift required) and you need access to the airfoil polar data from Profili/Xfoil at the appropriate Re# Go to the following link to download the sheet...based off of LiftRoll about 3 yrs ago: http://www.soarcalgary.com/Extras/Articles/Sailplane%20Design%20Spreadsh eet/ Did you have a webpage for your solar project? I've been curious how it was coming along, but the few searches I ran never came up with the webpage that I seem to remember seeing once upon a time. Hope that helps, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Choosing Stab Sections
Hi folks, Hoping someone can give me a hand with the particularities of proper stab/fin airfoil design. I remember understanding the concepts behind it at one point, but I've since forgotten, and would appreciate a refresher (the archives for these lists didn't help I'm afraid). I'm designing a new aerobatic model, and after some investigation have decided to try some of the Eppler sections that were presented in the March 2001 issue of SE Modeller. When Dr. Eppler was writing about the E175, he said: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xfoil/files/E175/ Also, when I calculated the flapped case for the rudder chord of the 1/3 scale Swift at 50%, I clearly noticed a turbulator is necessary on both sides of the section at 35% chord. You must be aware of this fact, as I am afraid that the landing control may become very difficult without the turbulator Well, frankly...I don't see it. I tried running a few test cases, and I see a marked decrease in the lift/drag ratio with the addition of the turbulator. Maybe my Reynolds number is too high? (300K) I've included the output I get for the section in flapped condition (6 degrees) with and without the turbulators in the following folder: Could some kind soul explain to me how best to optimize a stab or fin airfoil for a particular Re#? I'm not really interested in the full-flying variety at this point, but am willing to learn anything new if you'd like to share those concepts as well. In a related manner, I've been doing some reading on F3A pattern models, and have noticed that even though their manoeuvre speed is about 80 mph, they tend to truncate the wing airfoils they use so that the wing has a thick TE (2-3mm sometimes on a 19 chord). This apparently results in a dampening effect much like exponential. When I simulate this, I get a slight increase in max lift at a corresponding increase in drag at low Cl, but I can't rationalize an exponential effect. I've even heard of flared TE's on F3A rudders, which apparently help the models keep a heading on an upline (my guess is that this works much the same way as a double gurney flap). Is this a case of an airfoil actually needing a turbulator, as Dr. Eppler describes? Finally, regarding the location of hingelines, my typical approach in the past has been to run a variety of flapped conditions using a single value for degrees of deflection, and then to choose the case with the best lift/drag ratio. If this is different at for the tip and root of the stab, I've drawn a line perpendicular to the fuse centerline and aligned the hingelines to give me an overall stab planform. Is this method sound? Thanks for any help you can offer, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Selig 6060 Coordinates
Yep, guilty as charged. Thanks to everyone who responded...most appreciated. I have most sections, but I couldn't find this one for whatever reason. Thanks, Adam -Original Message- From: John Derstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:10 AM To: Adam Till (Cal); Soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Selig 6060 Coordinates Ah Ha, the man has done his research on glider aerobatic sections :-) Consider transitioning to a 6061 profile at the tip. I can't send you the file as my old compufoil and profili airfoil library left my computer, but there are plenty of on line sources for this. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Adam Till Cal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:05 PM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Selig 6060 Coordinates Hi folks, Would someone please be kind enough to send me the coordinates for the S6060 section? Thanks, Adam Adam Till RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Selig 6060 Coordinates
Hi folks, Would someone please be kind enough to send me the coordinates for the S6060 section? Thanks, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - part two
Hi John, Thanks very much for the extensive review - VERY appreciated (especially on a list with such a high level of noise). I think I have a better idea of what would be involved now. I'll chat with some of my pattern friends to see what their interest level would be. My gut feeling is that a guy coming off of an F3A machine would have more interest that someone obsessed with big control surfaces and hanging on the prop. The reason I asked was that out club now has a couple of working tugs, and hopefully by the end of this season there will be someone else to fly them (ie. not me). That means I can actually get a scale sailplane again :) I've always loved the look and performance of the Roedel Fox (there's one in our club), and was curious if I could eventually do something competitive with one (or something similar). I enjoyed flying an electric-powered UltraStick 120 Lite that served as our tug for two years, but since that's gone gas, I wouldn't feel as comfortable fun-flying it at the sailplane club anymore (gas is really just for towing there). As a result, if I wanted to fly an aerobatic machine again at that club I either need to get another big electric, or an aerobatic sailplane. I'm leaning towards the latter :) Unfortunately this is all academic for the next few months, since I have some UAV work to complete (darn Transport Canada is making life difficult). Cheers, Adam -Original Message- From: John Derstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:54 PM To: Adam Till (Cal); Soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - part two In the meantime Pete George and I made an attempt to modify the Scale Event at the NATs (2002 rules cycle I think) to emphasize the flying aspect and deemphasize the Petty arcane scale judging part. We, in three years managed to pass the revised scale event which in our minds was written in such a way as to not only encourage more general participation at the NATS event, but that this format could easily be made a scale aerobatic competition at the local level by selecting aerobatic planes as the only type competing. Flying maneuvers were to be consistent with the full scale prototype, and pilots and or CD's were free as is always the case, to modify the format within the rules to hold a local scale competition with emphasis on aerobatics. Well this effort has been hashed and rehashed and the event fizzled in spite of our efforts. It seemed that most scale pilots in the US simply had no interest in formal competition or lots of rules. The ISSA discussion was influenced by Pete Goldsmith's effort to perhaps include an informal aerobatic competition at the first JR Aerotow. The Result of that discussion was endless arguing on the part of some, insisting on their form of Aresti patterns rather than adopt the German figures that were already established, were readily available, not too difficult for the intermediate sailplane pilot, and published on the internet for anyone to copy and practice. It became obvious as the discussion went on that many scale guys just did not want to go through the hassle associated with organizing a competition. The final analysis remains that there is little interest in such serious competition among scale sailplane flyers. The TOC guys showed a little initial interest, but for whatever reason, time most likely, did not constitute a new contingent of scale sailplane acro flyers. John Diniz and Pete George even performed at the break at one of the last TOC competitions. I think there is potential for this someday in the U.S. The format needs to be relaxed enough to be fun for ordinary weekend pilots, yet challenging enough, and organized in such a way as to establish a standard and attract skilled pilots as well. Classes for non scale, scale acro planes, and perhaps vintage scale might draw a larger cross section. XCscale seems to be the next trend, and hopefully, it might be a more accessible format for flying scale sailplanes and competing. I left out tons of info, and hopefully did not raise too many hackles out there. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Adam Till Cal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 7:45 PM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - Current State of Affairs? Hi all, Are there are any glider aerobatic competitions scheduled for North America in 2005? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Scale Glider Aerobatics - Current State of Affairs?
Hi all, Are there are any glider aerobatic competitions scheduled for North America in 2005? I found an interesting, if dated, discussion on the subject on the ISSA website, and was curious what the current state of affairs is? Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Use of twist in extreme aspect ratio scale wings...
Hi folks, Does anybody know offhand to what degree large scale high aspect ratio scale ships (ie ASW-22, ASH 25 etc) typically use washout to control stall behaviour? I don't have any direct experience with such models, but I can't think that washout would be all that (visually) noticeable on the huge wings, and would definitely seem to be almost mandatory given the huge differential in flying speeds between the two tips in a turn. Just another interesting lunchtime question from yesterday Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Frequency Scanners
Thanks for all the suggestions folks, lots to think about. Cheers, Adam RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Frequency Scanners
Hi folks, In the market for a scanner for 72mhz (and possibly 50mhz). Doesn't have to do anything more than tell me if there's something on my channel, and some measure of signal strength. Basically, the simpler, the better. Old subject I know, but I seem to remember that the old standard recommendation model scanner has been discontinued. Anyone have one that they want to get rid of? Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Flight reports on CO-9 F3B?
Hi folks, Happy new year to all! Anyhoo, has anyone heard any flight reports on the CO-9 F3B flying wing? I was doing some browsing at lunch, and couldn't find much on it other than plans. I talked to the Kuhlman's, and confirmed that they only know about the following link: http://www.zanonia-flyers.de/nfco9e.htm ...and the similar one on www.aerodesign.de Anybody know anything more on how it flies? Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] The proper way to add washout/twist...
Hi folks, Just curious if anyone knows how washout should be properly added to a wing. I don't mean how much should be added (that I understand fine), but rather how the wing should be twisted. Do you rotate the tip section about the 1/4 chord point? Do you rotate the tip section about the LE? Does it really matter? Thanks, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] The proper way to add washout/twist...
Thought so, and that's what I'd usually do. This time I'm doodling a little flying wing that has twist from 1/2 span out, however, and having a straight LE would be helpful as a reference. Any guesses as to what doing this rather than twisting at 1/4 chord would do? Cheers, Adam -Original Message- From: Bill Swingle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:07 AM To: Adam Till (Cal); [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] The proper way to add washout/twist... The 1/4 chord point would be the best choice. But it's not that big of a concern usually. If you're cutting a foam core, then yes. Rotate the tip template around the 1/4 chord point. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] The proper way to add washout/twist...
Not an EPP foamie (bagged composite), so I have to make the decision before I cut the cores, but I'm sure it'll work out fine. I'll throw in an extra 1/4 degree of twist (it requires 4 already). Thanks again, Adam -Original Message- From: Bill Swingle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:17 AM To: Adam Till (Cal) Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] The proper way to add washout/twist... Twisting around the LE will add a bit of a pitching moment. Usually. However, a flying wing USUALLY will have a near-zero pitching moment airfoil so it's a non-issue. Besides, if it's a foamie, just twisting it with you hand and applying a heat gun, will usually twist around approximately the 1/4 chord point. So it's no problem. Really I've done it dozens of times. Don't sweat it. Bill Swingle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] FW: [nurflugel] The proper way to add washout/twist...
Good thought from Al, in case anyone was following this. Cheers, Adam From: Al Bowers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:21 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [nurflugel] The "proper" way to add washout/twist... Adam, Just curious if anyone knows how washout should be "properly" added to a wing. I don't mean how much should be added (that I understand fine), but rather how the wing should be twisted. Do you rotate the tip section about the 1/4 chord point (typically how I've done it in the past)? Can you rotate the tip section about the LE instead without changing the effect very much? Does it really matter?Just a thought: you should twist it about the hingeline of the controlsurfaces. The hingeline becomes a straight line, which simplifies thehinge and the seal of the surfaces. This way, you maximize the seal(or at least minimize the complexity of the hinges and seals) for thecontrol surface. Leaking pressure from the bottom of the wing to thetop of the wing (reducing aero efficiency and control powerefficiency) is usually a bad idea...Reimar Horten always did it that way. So it MUST be a good idea...Al Bowers-- Al Bowers Deputy Director of Research (acting)[EMAIL PROTECTED] NASA Dryden Flight Research Center"Tranquility Base here, the Eagle has landed. " -Neil Armstrong, 20 Jul 1969Need to unsubscribe or change your subscription profile? Please go to http://www.onelist.com to make the appropriate change. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nurflugel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [RCSE] Flying wings for F3J or F3B
Hi all, From: Douglas, Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without going into this too much, the best link I have for flying wings is www.aerodesign.de - hint, it's in German. Good list of ships used for F3J/B applications - also some great looking electric flying wing designs. I tried one of the constant chord designs as a sloper, and it worked very well. Thanks for that, I've been there. I was really looking for someone who's actually flown something like a CO7, since flight reports are few and far between. From: Daryl Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doubtful you'll never see one for either of these tasks. You can't set them up to launch effectively. D The few flight reports that are available for the CO7 talk of it being able to outlaunch Ellipses and V-Ultras, so with proper setup they should be okay. http://www.glide.net.au/flyingwing/co7.htm Those aren't current competition models, but they were in the CO7's day. Don't know if things have changed to the point where a wing wouldn't be competitive anymore, but I don't think anyone really knows on this (NA) side of the pond. There are (or used to be) whole F3B competitions in Germany specifically for wings, but I never heard anything about them, or if they're still going on. The catch 22 seems to be that since few people are interested in such wings, there aren't many being flown. Since that small group of pilots doesn't contain a member who flies at the very top level of the sport, wings don't get exposure and there isn't any demand for them by the general population. No demand, no availability. Or they just aren't competitive enough and this whole line of questioning is moot. Of course, it could also be that Zagi's and their ilk are so annoying that a whole generation of pilots has such a low opinion of wings that they try to mentally block them out at every chance :) From: John Derstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is one contender, several are in the works here in the U.S. and it has been rumored that they will be used for TD work as an experiment. At 7 pounds, hey are not specifically designed for this, but as a high performance aerobat and thermal ship. http://www.scalesoaring.net/EMM/Taborca.htm Sorry John, several Taborca's or several different designs? The Taborca looks like a nice model, but like you mention, it's really too heavy to be too competitive in either TD or F3J events. Take 2.5 lbs out and it might very well be, I don't know. That's actually one of the bigger issues I have with the available information. All the F3J designs I've seen so far aren't nearly strong enough to actually survive an F3J tow, and they all tend to be fairly crude structurally (6 oz plain weave carbon and 3 oz glass with a shear web, or layups of that nature). As a result, they're also very heavy for their size. Since I'm told that wings tend to behave like a conventional model that weighs 20% less, it's even more critical to engineer them properly. I think it would be very doable to engineer a wing that weighs 20% less than one with a conventional tail, but it leads me to believe that the effort in doing so might not really be worth it. That said, I don't know that for sure, and don't plan to give up flying normal F3X models for the time being. From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] The comments that I've been told regarding tailless wings for thermal flying is that the performance is reasonably good. The Tailless performance is quite doable and is being perfected. However, I've been told that thermal flyers find it difficult to fly a plane well without the visual indicator of a tail. I can definitely see visibility as a concern, but if it's just a matter of getting used to something that looks different (but the performance gain is there), I could work around it. Again, purely a theoretical exercise at this point, but it never hurts to learn something new. Thanks, Adam From: James V. Bacus [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can speak for yourself here, but please don't speak for me. I don't feel the same way. Wasn't trying to Jim, just a thought tacked onto the end of another post. I thought I'd actually gone out of my way to say that everyone was entitled to their own opinion, and I believe that. Members can use the list however they like. From: Adam Till Cal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Members can do what they like when it comes down to it... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Repair of broken Becker Antenna
Hi folks, Unfortunately, I was dumb enough to bend the second-last segment on my Becker antenna when I bent down to pick up my sailplane on the weekend. I didn't even notice that I'd done it until I got back to the car...oh well. After noticing that the telescoping sections appeared to be brass, I stripped the paint off the bent (now snapped) sections, and straightened the tube with an awl and a piece of music wire that fit the inside diameter. After finding a piece of brass that nested inside the previously-bent sections, I snipped off a section less than 1/4 long, and soldered the antenna back together using the tube as an internal splint/stiffener. A little paint should have it back looking as good as new, with the only lasting damage being that the tip section only collapses about halfway now. Any chance my repair has (significantly) changed the behaviour of the antenna? I can range check using a friend's undamaged antenna just to be safe, but I'm sort of curious what the effect would be from an academic standpoint. Any thoughts? FWIW - I really missed having the antenna when I went out again the next day. I'd forgotten how much of a pain it is to fly with those stock antennas! Cheers, Adam Adam Till Mechanical Engineer 403-270-9200 (ext 154) 403-270-0399 (Fax) UMA Engineering Ltd. 2540 Kensington Road NW Calgary AB, Canada T2N 3S3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Stab design from a technical perspective (many questi ons)
Thanks to all who have pointed this out, I should be more careful when I type! I'm aware that it should be 1/4MAC, but I was visualizing a 2D airfoil section polar when I was writing, where 1/4 MAC = 1/4 chord. I'll be more careful next time :) Cheers,Adam -Original Message-From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:01 PMTo: Bill Swingle; Adam Till (Cal); '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: Re: [RCSE] Stab design from a technical perspective (many questions) Guys Note:- one thing from what I remember the 25% chord is good but 25% MAC for both wing and Tailplane not 25% root. Dave (UK) Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now
