Re: Industry Solidarity...
As I said, I can also think of plenty cases when your advice applies and is good advice. Just that I hear it a lot, and often proposed as a fit-all solution. I was merely pointing out that for some of us it isn't one. Enough of my happyness depends on me finding a good work and out of work balance, that equation DOES contain work as a factor :) For those like me, and many others who pursue a carreer in film, and not in CG, it's not a viable option, and we'd rather see fixed what problems can be fixed, instead of a mass exodus. It's a risky endeavour for many people, it's never been truly safe, and today it's even less so than in the past, but it's not black and white, and it depends on one's priorities in life what mileage you can get out of it. If moving is not an option, it's not a job I would recommend right now, or in the next five years. On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > If you have the means, the skills, the connections, and the chutzpah to > demand the rates for your work, then awesome. Continue living the dream. > I just sympathize with those that for whatever reasons have had their > options marginalized. I think once you secured your finances and the bills > are paid, then you have more options to pick and choose the projects AND > the terms you like. > > Let's be honest, CG can be a very good financial career depending on where > you are in the food chain. I can prove it by how many people drive cars in > the 30k+ range, own homes, Canon MkII/MKIII owners, those fancy > quadracopters with cameras on them that you fly with an iPad, the iPad > itself, new smart phones, etc. Some of us hardly have an excuse to cry > poor. But some artists who do amazing work aren't being paid properly for > their skills. Those are the ones we need to watch out for because they're > equal partners in defining our industry as well as the future of our > industry. > > I've had friends that have chased tentpole after tentpole, made good money > working loads of OT during the length of the job, and then cough up all > that money during dry times and medical bills. It's punishment for being > huge fans of dragons and big-breasted katana wielding chicks with zombie > ass arsenals and want to contribute to that body of work. That's just not > right. > > -Lu > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < > raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> I hear that reasoning a lot. >> On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find >> new venues. >> Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a >> certain profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking >> at venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or >> med-viz, or what else have you, is simply not an option. >> The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the >> gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. >> >> I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some >> should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think >> everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to >> transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. >> >> Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot >> chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and >> the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 >> downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make >> one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >> >>> You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of >>> applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's >>> glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all >>> pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage >>> our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is >>> that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and >>> pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be >>> as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with >>> layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any >>> recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that >>> unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? >>> >>> We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with >>> ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the >>> current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than >>> some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood >>> boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal >>> with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you in his Iron Man suit because without >>> us, he doesn't even exist. >>> >>> -Lu >>> >>> > --
RE: Industry Solidarity...
9 years? Ouch. Don't envy you that. But that's a good point to consider. Actually, it's one of the reasons I wanted to get into commercials was because of the fast turnover of projects; it suits my artistic attention span. My technical attention span on the other hand gets a bit frustrated at not having the time to develop anything decent ;) On 26 February 2013 at 22:58 Matt Lind wrote: > I think we can look at the music industry as an example of what could happen. > Whether we want that or not is debatable. > > The games market is heading in a similar direction as Valve, NCSoft, Blizzard, > and other studios are developing their own distribution systems to publish > their games and get rid of the middle man who often creates a lot of the drama > in the cycle. The downside to this model is it requires significantly more > capital to get established and you need to find the customers yourself. That > puts additional pressure on each project to succeed. If it's not a smash hit > out of the gate, the studio often folds because it cannot recoup its > development costs. > > Here at Carbine, we're owned by NCSoft but we're still working on our first > project. It will enter its 9th year come April. From the outside it sounds > like stability, but internally it's a lot of hard work that comes with a lot > of risk as we've accumulated 9 years of development costs and expenses that > need to be repaid at some point in time. If a project drags on long enough, > showing up to work can become very stressful because of the weight of needing > to succeed. Some people can't deal with that stress and move on. Another > aspect to consider. > > > Matt > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:53 PM > To: Sebastien Sterling; softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity... > > I agree that the key word is "distribution". That's ultimately where the > money is coming from and it's a tough market out there. Unless the front cover > of your film packaging looks like Die Hard 7 then you're gonna have a tough > time of selling it. It's literally as shallow as that. You don't think they do > something as clever as actually watching it before they decide whether to buy > it do you? > ;) > > There may be new ways of distributing films in the coming years, in which case > the game will change significantly for the benefit of independent productions. > Maybe that's a good thing for us, or then again, maybe it isn't. It could > really open up the market for low budget effects and that's when jobs will > really start going to Asia. > > > > > On 26 February 2013 at 21:23 Sebastien Sterling > wrote: > > > > It would be great if Europe got its own feature film industry, at the > > moment i'm working at a feature film company in belgium tailoring its > > product for an American audience (setting humour narrative structure), > > they don't get it, you don't sell America to America, i understand why > > they want to do this, its the best market, its the widest > > distribution, one language one set of codes and regulations. Europe on > > the other hand is loads of different languages ideals histories, you > > can't homogenise a product as easily. France has some of the best and > > most prominent animation schools in the world, but no feature film > > industry, remarkable studios like Nest make amazing pitches for films > > that seldom seem to go beyond the pilot stage, England is the VFX > > backyard of the world. there is amazing potential here for such an industry, > > i feel that having an overseas competition would be a good thing to vitalise > > the industry. > > maybe i'm being naive or idealistic :) > >
RE: Industry Solidarity...
I think we can look at the music industry as an example of what could happen. Whether we want that or not is debatable. The games market is heading in a similar direction as Valve, NCSoft, Blizzard, and other studios are developing their own distribution systems to publish their games and get rid of the middle man who often creates a lot of the drama in the cycle. The downside to this model is it requires significantly more capital to get established and you need to find the customers yourself. That puts additional pressure on each project to succeed. If it's not a smash hit out of the gate, the studio often folds because it cannot recoup its development costs. Here at Carbine, we're owned by NCSoft but we're still working on our first project. It will enter its 9th year come April. From the outside it sounds like stability, but internally it's a lot of hard work that comes with a lot of risk as we've accumulated 9 years of development costs and expenses that need to be repaid at some point in time. If a project drags on long enough, showing up to work can become very stressful because of the weight of needing to succeed. Some people can't deal with that stress and move on. Another aspect to consider. Matt -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:53 PM To: Sebastien Sterling; softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity... I agree that the key word is "distribution". That's ultimately where the money is coming from and it's a tough market out there. Unless the front cover of your film packaging looks like Die Hard 7 then you're gonna have a tough time of selling it. It's literally as shallow as that. You don't think they do something as clever as actually watching it before they decide whether to buy it do you? ;) There may be new ways of distributing films in the coming years, in which case the game will change significantly for the benefit of independent productions. Maybe that's a good thing for us, or then again, maybe it isn't. It could really open up the market for low budget effects and that's when jobs will really start going to Asia. On 26 February 2013 at 21:23 Sebastien Sterling wrote: > It would be great if Europe got its own feature film industry, at the > moment i'm working at a feature film company in belgium tailoring its > product for an American audience (setting humour narrative structure), > they don't get it, you don't sell America to America, i understand why > they want to do this, its the best market, its the widest > distribution, one language one set of codes and regulations. Europe on > the other hand is loads of different languages ideals histories, you > can't homogenise a product as easily. France has some of the best and > most prominent animation schools in the world, but no feature film > industry, remarkable studios like Nest make amazing pitches for films > that seldom seem to go beyond the pilot stage, England is the VFX > backyard of the world. there is amazing potential here for such an industry, > i feel that having an overseas competition would be a good thing to vitalise > the industry. > maybe i'm being naive or idealistic :) >
Re: Industry Solidarity.
ya, and now with the star wars IP they are sitting on some serious equity. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Matt Lind wrote: > But as a company they survived because they own their own IP. >
RE: Industry Solidarity.
But as a company they survived because they own their own IP. Others without IP in the same boat disappeared completely. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Bradley Gabe Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:04 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity. Except Disney has opened and shut down CG studios numerous times and displaced hundreds of people, and Dreamworks recently had their own huge round of layoffs. IP situation is different and may be better than service only, but it isn't the answer. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Matt Lind mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote: One thing that I've learned over the years is that you want to work for a company that sees themselves as the artist, not the artisan. Lucas, Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks, Blizzard, NCSoft, EA, all own their I.P. and market to the consumer. If the consumer likes their product, they stay around to live another day and another project. Kind of like a home owner who has equity in property. R+H, Digital Doman, ILM, Orphanage, and countless game developers are 3rd parties serving the likes of the above as artisans for hire. When times are lean, they have nothing to fall back on and are vulnerable to bidding wars. They are essentially renters of property, they have no equity. I would love to see better working conditions, more opportunity for employment, job stability, and so on, but majority of the industry isn't modeled for that. To sit here and propose taxes and issue other small scale edicts is only treating the symptoms. Treating symptoms will not get you anywhere.
Re: Industry Solidarity.
Except Disney has opened and shut down CG studios numerous times and displaced hundreds of people, and Dreamworks recently had their own huge round of layoffs. IP situation is different and may be better than service only, but it isn't the answer. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Matt Lind wrote: > One thing that I’ve learned over the years is that you want to work for a > company that sees themselves as the artist, not the artisan. > > ** ** > > Lucas, Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks, Blizzard, NCSoft, EA, all own their I.P. > and market to the consumer. If the consumer likes their product, they stay > around to live another day and another project. Kind of like a home owner > who has equity in property. > > ** ** > > R+H, Digital Doman, ILM, Orphanage, and countless game developers are > 3rdparties serving the likes of the above as artisans for hire. When times > are lean, they have nothing to fall back on and are vulnerable to bidding > wars. They are essentially renters of property, they have no equity. > > ** ** > > ** ** > > I would love to see better working conditions, more opportunity for > employment, job stability, and so on, but majority of the industry isn’t > modeled for that. To sit here and propose taxes and issue other small > scale edicts is only treating the symptoms. Treating symptoms will not get > you anywhere. > > ** >
RE: Industry Solidarity.
One thing that I've learned over the years is that you want to work for a company that sees themselves as the artist, not the artisan. Lucas, Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks, Blizzard, NCSoft, EA, all own their I.P. and market to the consumer. If the consumer likes their product, they stay around to live another day and another project. Kind of like a home owner who has equity in property. R+H, Digital Doman, ILM, Orphanage, and countless game developers are 3rd parties serving the likes of the above as artisans for hire. When times are lean, they have nothing to fall back on and are vulnerable to bidding wars. They are essentially renters of property, they have no equity. I would love to see better working conditions, more opportunity for employment, job stability, and so on, but majority of the industry isn't modeled for that. To sit here and propose taxes and issue other small scale edicts is only treating the symptoms. Treating symptoms will not get you anywhere. The real problem is Hollywood is the capital of the entertainment industry, knows it, and leverages that fact in all its dealings. The only solution to the problem is to come up with a competitor who can stand up to and provide an alternative to Hollywood. As long as Hollywood is the capital of the entertainment industry, nothing will change. It might take several alternatives to arise for the solution to be effective. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Szabolcs Matefy Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:03 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Industry Solidarity. Unfortunately the same happens to Game Develoeprs, and Outsource companies as well. We have to bid lower than Chinese and Indian companies, and when the price is below the minimum income needed, we try to get the money with overwork and shorter deadlines. And then the downfall begins, more work needed to get the same money, and I found myself working 12-14 hours for the same money (if I ever get it). I worked guys one year for zero income because of this. So I am with the VFX guys! From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Thivierge Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:38 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Chris Covelli mailto:ch...@polygonpusherinc.com>> wrote: Maybe the problem isnt that they arent specific enough, but rather they are just obvious, so, as you've asked, why arent they enforced? We take them for granted and feel as if we have no power? We need to start pushing back against it. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com
Re: Industry Solidarity...
I agree that the key word is "distribution". That's ultimately where the money is coming from and it's a tough market out there. Unless the front cover of your film packaging looks like Die Hard 7 then you're gonna have a tough time of selling it. It's literally as shallow as that. You don't think they do something as clever as actually watching it before they decide whether to buy it do you? ;) There may be new ways of distributing films in the coming years, in which case the game will change significantly for the benefit of independent productions. Maybe that's a good thing for us, or then again, maybe it isn't. It could really open up the market for low budget effects and that's when jobs will really start going to Asia. On 26 February 2013 at 21:23 Sebastien Sterling wrote: > It would be great if Europe got its own feature film industry, at the moment > i'm working at a feature film company in belgium tailoring its product for an > American audience (setting humour narrative structure), they don't get it, you > don't sell America to America, i understand why they want to do this, its the > best market, its the widest distribution, one language one set of codes and > regulations. Europe on the other hand is loads of different languages ideals > histories, you can't homogenise a product as easily. France has some of the > best and most prominent animation schools in the world, but no feature film > industry, remarkable studios like Nest make amazing pitches for films that > seldom seem to go beyond the pilot stage, England is the VFX backyard of the > world. there is amazing potential here for such an industry, i feel that > having an overseas competition would be a good thing to vitalise the industry. > maybe i'm being naive or idealistic :) >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
It would be great if Europe got its own feature film industry, at the moment i'm working at a feature film company in belgium tailoring its product for an American audience (setting humour narrative structure), they don't get it, you don't sell America to America, i understand why they want to do this, its the best market, its the widest distribution, one language one set of codes and regulations. Europe on the other hand is loads of different languages ideals histories, you can't homogenise a product as easily. France has some of the best and most prominent animation schools in the world, but no feature film industry, remarkable studios like Nest make amazing pitches for films that seldom seem to go beyond the pilot stage, England is the VFX backyard of the world. there is amazing potential here for such an industry, i feel that having an overseas competition would be a good thing to vitalise the industry. maybe i'm being naive or idealistic :) On 26 February 2013 19:48, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > If you have the means, the skills, the connections, and the chutzpah to > demand the rates for your work, then awesome. Continue living the dream. > I just sympathize with those that for whatever reasons have had their > options marginalized. I think once you secured your finances and the bills > are paid, then you have more options to pick and choose the projects AND > the terms you like. > > Let's be honest, CG can be a very good financial career depending on where > you are in the food chain. I can prove it by how many people drive cars in > the 30k+ range, own homes, Canon MkII/MKIII owners, those fancy > quadracopters with cameras on them that you fly with an iPad, the iPad > itself, new smart phones, etc. Some of us hardly have an excuse to cry > poor. But some artists who do amazing work aren't being paid properly for > their skills. Those are the ones we need to watch out for because they're > equal partners in defining our industry as well as the future of our > industry. > > I've had friends that have chased tentpole after tentpole, made good money > working loads of OT during the length of the job, and then cough up all > that money during dry times and medical bills. It's punishment for being > huge fans of dragons and big-breasted katana wielding chicks with zombie > ass arsenals and want to contribute to that body of work. That's just not > right. > > -Lu > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < > raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> I hear that reasoning a lot. >> On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find >> new venues. >> Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a >> certain profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking >> at venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or >> med-viz, or what else have you, is simply not an option. >> The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the >> gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. >> >> I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some >> should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think >> everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to >> transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. >> >> Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot >> chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and >> the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 >> downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make >> one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >> >>> You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of >>> applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's >>> glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all >>> pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage >>> our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is >>> that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and >>> pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be >>> as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with >>> layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any >>> recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that >>> unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? >>> >>> We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with >>> ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the >>> current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than >>> some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood >>> boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal >>> with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you
Re: Industry Solidarity...
If you have the means, the skills, the connections, and the chutzpah to demand the rates for your work, then awesome. Continue living the dream. I just sympathize with those that for whatever reasons have had their options marginalized. I think once you secured your finances and the bills are paid, then you have more options to pick and choose the projects AND the terms you like. Let's be honest, CG can be a very good financial career depending on where you are in the food chain. I can prove it by how many people drive cars in the 30k+ range, own homes, Canon MkII/MKIII owners, those fancy quadracopters with cameras on them that you fly with an iPad, the iPad itself, new smart phones, etc. Some of us hardly have an excuse to cry poor. But some artists who do amazing work aren't being paid properly for their skills. Those are the ones we need to watch out for because they're equal partners in defining our industry as well as the future of our industry. I've had friends that have chased tentpole after tentpole, made good money working loads of OT during the length of the job, and then cough up all that money during dry times and medical bills. It's punishment for being huge fans of dragons and big-breasted katana wielding chicks with zombie ass arsenals and want to contribute to that body of work. That's just not right. -Lu On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I hear that reasoning a lot. > On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find > new venues. > Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a certain > profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking at > venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or med-viz, > or what else have you, is simply not an option. > The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the > gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. > > I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some > should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think > everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to > transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. > > Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot > chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and > the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 > downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make > one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > >> You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of >> applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's >> glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all >> pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage >> our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is >> that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and >> pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be >> as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with >> layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any >> recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that >> unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? >> >> We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with >> ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the >> current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than >> some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood >> boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal >> with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you in his Iron Man suit because without >> us, he doesn't even exist. >> >> -Lu >> >>
RE: Industry Solidarity.
Unfortunately the same happens to Game Develoeprs, and Outsource companies as well. We have to bid lower than Chinese and Indian companies, and when the price is below the minimum income needed, we try to get the money with overwork and shorter deadlines. And then the downfall begins, more work needed to get the same money, and I found myself working 12-14 hours for the same money (if I ever get it). I worked guys one year for zero income because of this. So I am with the VFX guys! From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Thivierge Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:38 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Chris Covelli wrote: Maybe the problem isnt that they arent specific enough, but rather they are just obvious, so, as you've asked, why arent they enforced? We take them for granted and feel as if we have no power? We need to start pushing back against it. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com
Re: Industry Solidarity...
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Chris Covelli wrote: > Maybe the problem isnt that they arent specific enough, but rather they > are just obvious, so, as you've asked, why arent they enforced? We take them for granted and feel as if we have no power? We need to start pushing back against it. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Well Chris you brought up a good one... I am in Mexico and here the movies industry is just a tiny fraction of what Hollywood is. Not many chances to do VFX Hollywood style. Most of the VFX are done for TV commercials and I can say VFX guys here are as underrated as Hollywood. Most producers, directors and creative guys at agencies think that by simply pushing a button on your keyboard, the job is done. There is belief that VFX is all about software and plugins and not about the artist pulling the strings. True is that computers and software have made a major breakthrough last years and getting a system to work with is cheaper now than it was 20 years ago. I remember paying $17,000 USD for my first TDZ-300 bundled with Softimage 3D. Thanks for Microsoft and Intergraph to pulling out Softimage from Silicon workstations. If not that same system would cost me around $50,000 USD on an Indigo. Now I have a system much more powerful with Softimage for $7,000. Less than half the price and I can pull out 10 times a job faster than before. But then, what is happening? 20 years ago for a simple flying logo in 3D, 5 seconds duration, the few studios that can afford to have one of those machines can charge the client around $12,000 USD. Besides the workstation you will need a frame buffer and a VTR controller card to record each frame to a Betacam SP or some other frame accurate recording VTR after a single frame was rendered. And you will not see the final result of the animation until it was finished and playback your tape. Now you deliver on Quicktime in a multifunction workstation where you can edit, animate, compose, color grade, etc and deliver. And that is the perception IMHO of the clients. Not to mention that now a single guy with a cheap computer and cracked software starts a "studio" and with that he starts pulling down his pants to get his first contract. So what is the response of small size to mid studios? Lower the price to stay alive. Not to mention the cash flow. Where before if you don't have an advance in you pocket you will not move a single finger, now the clients sit on the money for 3 to 6 months after you deliver. 15 years ago, here in Mexico we tried to join forces. And I remember our very first meeting. We were six animation and VFX studios sitting on the table. And we started talking about this days. We talked about having same fares, contract and payment policies, etc. And then one guy said: "If to win the contract I need to lower my fares, I will do it" That guy studio's is gone now. And instead of six studios, this days each day a new one pops out. Just yesterday a client asked me if I know whatever studio and I said no. Digging a bit more it was a couple of kids in the cellar of their house with two computers doing animation, charging 35% to 50% less than us. So what's left? Perhaps those kids are good, perhpas they suck, I don't know. But what I know is that they are doing "business" while we, with a well stablished facility are not. People to put money on advertising or movies are now looking for lower production and post production fares. So they can make more money. While we each day charge less for our job in order to stay in "business", the movie tickets and consumer products are not lowering their prices. Each day you need to give more to recieve less. Acknowledge of our job? That sounds nice but that doesn't bring food on the table. You don't need to have an engineer title or PHD to do VFX. And clients don't care if you have one. All they want is something that looks like a Ferrari, runs as fast as a Ferrari, sounds like a Ferrari but at the price of a Beetle. And there are guys outhere trying to breakthrough that are giving this Ferrari-Beetle to the clients. 2013/2/26 Chris Covelli > Here's a point I raised on my facebook profile amid posting and re-posting > things to generate awareness that I think is worth thinking about: > > "So apparently, among others at the Oscars last night, Nicole Kidman was > seen mouthing the words 'poor things' as the VFX crew for Life of Pi were > shuffled off stage for taking too long with their acceptance speech ( or > because they were trying to let everyone know about the protest going on > outside ). Id be willing to bet our efforts to protest, boycott and raise > awareness about our crippled industry would find a lot of support among > Hollywood actors. They are artists too and a lot of them understand what > could have happened to them if it weren't for the many guilds and unions > protecting them. I say the ring leaders in this movement try to contact the > biggest names they can, especially those movie stars that already have a > predilection towards activism. Could generate a lot of momentum." > > Also, its great that we are raising awareness and everything by posting to > social media, but are there things we can actually do to change the way the > system works? Some say we can m
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Maybe the problem isnt that they arent specific enough, but rather they are just obvious, so, as you've asked, why arent they enforced? Just like legislation that places heavy taxes on companies that outsourcewhy arent they effectively discouraging the outsourcing? Chris Covelli http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/ On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > Why isn't that specific enough? > > Fair pay = Getting paid for the hours you work > Job Security = Not sure on this one but it may come with stabilizing the > fair pay and benefits aspects. > Benefits = If you're hired at a company as staff you get benefits. If you > (meaning everyone) have your own LLC then you increase your costs to cover > your benefits. > > Don't work for free and don't work 24/7/30. Work a maximum amount of hours > per work. 50 has been mentioned on other lists / twitter. After that, > you're done. I thought there were maximum amount of hours you could work > for a company in any given week... why isn't this enforced? > > I'll say it again, the change has to come from the ground up not the other > way around. Let the companies you work for know they need to shape up and > start bidding and planning their projects in a better way. > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Chris Covelli wrote: > >> Obviously we want fair pay, benefits and job security but those phrases >> are not specific enough to put into a plan of action. >> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Here's a point I raised on my facebook profile amid posting and re-posting things to generate awareness that I think is worth thinking about: "So apparently, among others at the Oscars last night, Nicole Kidman was seen mouthing the words 'poor things' as the VFX crew for Life of Pi were shuffled off stage for taking too long with their acceptance speech ( or because they were trying to let everyone know about the protest going on outside ). Id be willing to bet our efforts to protest, boycott and raise awareness about our crippled industry would find a lot of support among Hollywood actors. They are artists too and a lot of them understand what could have happened to them if it weren't for the many guilds and unions protecting them. I say the ring leaders in this movement try to contact the biggest names they can, especially those movie stars that already have a predilection towards activism. Could generate a lot of momentum." Also, its great that we are raising awareness and everything by posting to social media, but are there things we can actually do to change the way the system works? Some say we can make petitions, but who would we be petitioning to and what wold we be asking for? Obviously we want fair pay, benefits and job security but those phrases are not specific enough to put into a plan of action. We hear talk about subsidies but does anyone here understand the inner workings of the business end to really specifically state what needs to be changed? Im asking because I really dont. I know that many governments offer Hollywood studios subsidies ( read cash back? ) to hire vfx shops in their countries. I dont think the US political climate and economy will allow our government to offer competing subsidies, but the US could discourage Hollywood from accepting offers like this with tax penalties for outsourcing, but dont we do this already? Is it enough? Does anyone know the actual numbers? I'd also like to hear what people from outside the US think. I know this is an multinational forum. Do you guys really feel like you are reaping the benefits of our loses or are you guys also feeling underemployed and unappreciated? As much as we in the US can gain ground for ourselves, Im sure we dont want that to kill the growing industries in your countries at the same time. There should be enough to go around for everyone. Chris Covelli http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/ On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Chris Covelli wrote: > Resistanzia! > > > Chris Covelli > http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/ > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Rob Chapman wrote: > >> Drunk hulk smash! :) >> >> >> On 26 February 2013 04:22, Raffaele Fragapane < >> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> I hear that reasoning a lot. >>> On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find >>> new venues. >>> Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a >>> certain profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking >>> at venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or >>> med-viz, or what else have you, is simply not an option. >>> The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the >>> gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. >>> >>> I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some >>> should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think >>> everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to >>> transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. >>> >>> Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot >>> chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and >>> the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 >>> downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make >>> one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >>> You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is th
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Resistanzia! Chris Covelli http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/ On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Rob Chapman wrote: > Drunk hulk smash! :) > > > On 26 February 2013 04:22, Raffaele Fragapane > wrote: > >> I hear that reasoning a lot. >> On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find >> new venues. >> Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a >> certain profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking >> at venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or >> med-viz, or what else have you, is simply not an option. >> The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the >> gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. >> >> I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some >> should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think >> everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to >> transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. >> >> Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot >> chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and >> the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 >> downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make >> one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >> >>> You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of >>> applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's >>> glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all >>> pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage >>> our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is >>> that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and >>> pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be >>> as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with >>> layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any >>> recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that >>> unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? >>> >>> We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with >>> ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the >>> current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than >>> some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood >>> boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal >>> with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you in his Iron Man suit because without >>> us, he doesn't even exist. >>> >>> -Lu >>> >>> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Drunk hulk smash! :) On 26 February 2013 04:22, Raffaele Fragapane wrote: > I hear that reasoning a lot. > On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find > new venues. > Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a certain > profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking at > venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or med-viz, > or what else have you, is simply not an option. > The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the > gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. > > I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some > should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think > everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to > transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. > > Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot > chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and > the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 > downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make > one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > >> You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of >> applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's >> glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all >> pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage >> our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is >> that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and >> pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be >> as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with >> layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any >> recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that >> unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? >> >> We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with >> ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the >> current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than >> some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood >> boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal >> with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you in his Iron Man suit because without >> us, he doesn't even exist. >> >> -Lu >> >>
Re: Industry Solidarity...
I hear that reasoning a lot. On one end, it's agreeable. Sure, if your passion is CG, go ahead, find new venues. Some of us, however, do this because we're into creature work of a certain profile, or film in general, or both. For that demographic, looking at venues such as mobile app graphics, or slot machine graphics, or med-viz, or what else have you, is simply not an option. The next gen of consoles might open up one more venue, but insofar the gaming industry hasn't exactly turned out to be a safe haven either. I'm not dismissing the argument, it's a sensible one to make and some should consider it, but it's narrowly applied short sight in a way to think everybody is in it to push buttons in Maya or Soft, and is willing to transfer their skills, if they even were in first place. Personally I'm in it to blow shit up and make stuff like dragons, hot chicks dual wielding katanas, zombies with arse-mounted machine guns and the such. Applying my software development skills to a successful 10 downloads 0.99$ calendar app, even if I tick all the boxes required to make one, isn't my idea of a job I'd like :) On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of > applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's > glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all > pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage > our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is > that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and > pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be > as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with > layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any > recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that > unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? > > We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with > ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the > current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than > some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood > boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal > with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you in his Iron Man suit because without > us, he doesn't even exist. > > -Lu > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
You have to look at it a different way. There's actually a ton of applications we can use CG for. It's just that we like to kiss Hollywood's glittery ass that gets us in trouble. There's a lot of avenues we can all pursue. Just like iPhone and iPads opened up new doors for us to leverage our talents, so will things like 3D printing in the future. The reality is that we have a lot of options if we are willing to set aside our egos and pursue other meaningful work that provides value. It may not be as glamorous as film, but film work is no longer glamorous either with layoffs, bankruptcy, and abuse. Consider we clearly don't get any recognition as artists, why do we still beg for a seat at a table that unwelcomes us, but gladly fleece us of our talents? We have to start asking what we value as a workforce, starting with ourselves. A new model needs to be built out of the ashes that is the current VFX industry. Kids on youtube doing vlogs make more money than some fulltime vfx artists. Don't watch the Oscars if it makes your blood boil. You pop an artery and that's a lot of problems you have to deal with. And no, RDJ will not rescue you in his Iron Man suit because without us, he doesn't even exist. -Lu On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Sebastien Sterling < sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote: > VFX, Animation, CG in general seems to be saturating, it would be a grave > thing indeed if digital art was relegated to the level of street performing > due to industrial greed and sector saturation. > > > On 26 February 2013 02:57, Christopher Crouzet < > christopher.crou...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Until I hovered and read the tooltip for that emoticon, I thought it was >> Homer Simpson grabbing a breast from Marge... needless to say that I was >> confused. >> >> >> ... sorry, yeah, GO VFX! >> >> >> >> On 26 February 2013 13:20, Bradley Gabe wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D >> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
VFX, Animation, CG in general seems to be saturating, it would be a grave thing indeed if digital art was relegated to the level of street performing due to industrial greed and sector saturation. On 26 February 2013 02:57, Christopher Crouzet < christopher.crou...@gmail.com> wrote: > Until I hovered and read the tooltip for that emoticon, I thought it was > Homer Simpson grabbing a breast from Marge... needless to say that I was > confused. > > > ... sorry, yeah, GO VFX! > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:20, Bradley Gabe wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < >> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D >>> >>> >>> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Until I hovered and read the tooltip for that emoticon, I thought it was Homer Simpson grabbing a breast from Marge... needless to say that I was confused. ... sorry, yeah, GO VFX! On 26 February 2013 13:20, Bradley Gabe wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < > raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D >> >> >>
Re: Industry Solidarity...
lol On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Ed Manning wrote: > this is why we can't have nice things... > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > >> :D >> >> >> Eric Thivierge >> http://www.ethivierge.com >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < >> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Gene Crucean < >>> emailgeneonthel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hehe. I added some markers to mine :) >>>> >>>> But I agree... some consistency would be nice. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't >>>>> wanna look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color >>>>> values. >>>>> >>>>> -Lu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness >>>>>> to your friends who aren't in the industry. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Eric Thivierge >>>>>> http://www.ethivierge.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >>>>>> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The 51st. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>>>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>>>>>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>>>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge < >>>>>>> ethivie...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX >>>> Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer >>>> ** *Freelance for hire* ** >>>> www.genecrucean.com >>>> >>>> ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any >>>> personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >>> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>> >> >> > -- Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer ** *Freelance for hire* ** www.genecrucean.com ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~
Re: Industry Solidarity...
this is why we can't have nice things... On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > :D > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < > raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Gene Crucean < >> emailgeneonthel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hehe. I added some markers to mine :) >>> >>> But I agree... some consistency would be nice. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >>> >>>> I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna >>>> look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. >>>> >>>> -Lu >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness >>>>> to your friends who aren't in the industry. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Eric Thivierge >>>>> http://www.ethivierge.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >>>>> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The 51st. >>>>>> >>>>>> ** ** >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>>>>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>>>>> >>>>>> ** ** >>>>>> >>>>>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> ** ** >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX >>> Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer >>> ** *Freelance for hire* ** >>> www.genecrucean.com >>> >>> ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any >>> personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >> > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
:D Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Gene Crucean < > emailgeneonthel...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hehe. I added some markers to mine :) >> >> But I agree... some consistency would be nice. >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >> >>> I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna >>> look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. >>> >>> -Lu >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: >>> >>>> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >>>> your friends who aren't in the industry. >>>> >>>> >>>> Eric Thivierge >>>> http://www.ethivierge.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >>>> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The 51st. >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>>>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX >> Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer >> ** *Freelance for hire* ** >> www.genecrucean.com >> >> ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any >> personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~ >> > > > > -- > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it > and let them flee like the dogs they are! >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D > > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
we are doomed! On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Gene Crucean < > emailgeneonthel...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hehe. I added some markers to mine :) >> >> But I agree... some consistency would be nice. >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >> >>> I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna >>> look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. >>> >>> -Lu >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: >>> >>>> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >>>> your friends who aren't in the industry. >>>> >>>> >>>> Eric Thivierge >>>> http://www.ethivierge.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >>>> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The 51st. >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>>>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX >> Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer >> ** *Freelance for hire* ** >> www.genecrucean.com >> >> ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any >> personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~ >> > > > > -- > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it > and let them flee like the dogs they are! >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Leave it to the VFX industry to pixel fuck even a symbolic protest :D On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Gene Crucean wrote: > Hehe. I added some markers to mine :) > > But I agree... some consistency would be nice. > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > >> I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna >> look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. >> >> -Lu >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: >> >>> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >>> your friends who aren't in the industry. >>> >>> >>> Eric Thivierge >>> http://www.ethivierge.com >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >>> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The 51st. >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX > Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer > ** *Freelance for hire* ** > www.genecrucean.com > > ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any > personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~ > -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Hehe. I added some markers to mine :) But I agree... some consistency would be nice. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna > look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. > > -Lu > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > >> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >> your friends who aren't in the industry. >> >> >> Eric Thivierge >> http://www.ethivierge.com >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >> >>> The 51st. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>> wrote: >>> >>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>> >> >> > -- Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated CG Supervisor / iOS-OSX Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer ** *Freelance for hire* ** www.genecrucean.com ~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~ <><>
RE: Industry Solidarity...
I always preferred non-photo blue myself. Easier on the eyes and doesn't mess up your drawings so much. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Meng-Yang Lu Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:12 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity... I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. -Lu On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge mailto:ethivie...@gmail.com>> wrote: Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to your friends who aren't in the industry. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau mailto:marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com>> wrote: The 51st. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: 25 février 2013 16:49 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity... wait which shade of green? ;) On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge mailto:ethivie...@gmail.com>> wrote: Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent!
Re: Industry Solidarity...
http://youtu.be/lFeLDc2CzOs Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos 2013/2/26 Steven Caron : > haha, exactly :) > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: >> >> I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna >> look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. >> >> -Lu >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge >> wrote: >>> >>> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >>> your friends who aren't in the industry. >>> >>> >>> Eric Thivierge >>> http://www.ethivierge.com >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The 51st. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron >>>> Sent: 25 février 2013 16:49 >>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>> >>> >> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
haha, exactly :) On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote: > I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna > look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. > > -Lu > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > >> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >> your friends who aren't in the industry. >> >> >> Eric Thivierge >> http://www.ethivierge.com >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >> >>> The 51st. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>> wrote: >>> >>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>> >> >> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
We can deal with even the darkest and brightest shades of green! ;) Have you ever seen a perfectly lit greenscreen? 2013/2/25 Meng-Yang Lu > I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna > look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. > > -Lu > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > >> Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to >> your friends who aren't in the industry. >> >> >> Eric Thivierge >> http://www.ethivierge.com >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < >> marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: >> >>> The 51st. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >>> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> wait which shade of green? ;) >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >>> wrote: >>> >>> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >>> >> >> >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
I think we should align our chroma greens a bit better. We don't wanna look like schlubs protesting if we can't even get the same color values. -Lu On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to > your friends who aren't in the industry. > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < > marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: > >> The 51st. >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >> >> ** ** >> >> wait which shade of green? ;) >> >> ** ** >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >> wrote: >> >> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >> > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Incidentally, as an attention-seeking tactic, it's actually working very well. I had been posting various messages about the state of the industry with pretty much no interest generated. But for some reason, a number of non industry folks are asking "what's up with the green?" Effective Messaging: Don't try to tell the masses, have the masses come and ask you. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to > your friends who aren't in the industry. > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < > marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: > >> The 51st. >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron >> *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 >> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... >> >> ** ** >> >> wait which shade of green? ;) >> >> ** ** >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge >> wrote: >> >> Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >> > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Don't forget to post information about the issues to raise awareness to your friends who aren't in the industry. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau < marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com> wrote: > The 51st. > > ** ** > > *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: > softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron > *Sent:* 25 février 2013 16:49 > *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > *Subject:* Re: Industry Solidarity... > > ** ** > > wait which shade of green? ;) > > ** ** > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge > wrote: > > Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >
RE: Industry Solidarity...
The 51st. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: 25 février 2013 16:49 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Industry Solidarity... wait which shade of green? ;) On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge mailto:ethivie...@gmail.com>> wrote: Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent!
Re: Industry Solidarity...
wait which shade of green? ;) On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Operation Ponyboy! On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Bradley Gabe wrote: > >> ...is a beautiful thing. >> >> My Facebook has turned completely green! >> Thanks everyone for participating. >> >> -Bradley >> > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
What would be fun is if we painted LA chroma green. We're already there with the green bike lanes. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote: > Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Bradley Gabe wrote: > >> ...is a beautiful thing. >> >> My Facebook has turned completely green! >> Thanks everyone for participating. >> >> -Bradley >> > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Everybody in green. I wrote an article (in Spanish, sorry) talking about that and I received more than 2600 visitors en 5 hours. I will share that problem to all the world http://blog.zao3d.com/2013/02/la-vida-de-pi-de-rhythm-hues-triunfadora-y-sus-trabajadores-sin-cobrar/ *Javier Vega* www.zao3d.com Visita mi blog: http://blog.zao3d.com móvil: *616 64 73 57* 08922-Santa Coloma de Gramenet (Barcelona) 2013/2/25 Eric Thivierge > Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! > > > Eric Thivierge > http://www.ethivierge.com > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Bradley Gabe wrote: > >> ...is a beautiful thing. >> >> My Facebook has turned completely green! >> Thanks everyone for participating. >> >> -Bradley >> > >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Stay green until this problem is fixed! Do not relent! Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Bradley Gabe wrote: > ...is a beautiful thing. > > My Facebook has turned completely green! > Thanks everyone for participating. > > -Bradley >
Re: Industry Solidarity...
Google+ and Twitter is green on my side. The more we are, the more we are visible. /Stefan On Feb 25, 2013, at 22:18, Bradley Gabe wrote: > ...is a beautiful thing. > > My Facebook has turned completely green! > Thanks everyone for participating. > > -Bradley
