Re: Softimage is not EOL
Alok, as you said: The demand in our industry is the usual : More efficiency in lesser time. That is what we have with SI, nt so much with Maya. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Andres Stephens drais...@outlook.com wrote: My only concern is topping up on a good number of lisenses so it lasts in my workflow (and finding the cash for it)… not sure how to scale it though…. after they stop handing out licenses. *Still curious as to why it would be hard to sell digital copies online, no marketing, with digital licenses, without development.. wouldn’tit have good PR for old faithful followers and rep, also.. consideration, and.. it does nothing for the current marketing strategy. Why lock it up? Anyway, sorry, enough rant.* I still use trueSpace, though it was EOL’d back in 2009, and using other software to do what it can’t for what I want on the side (Blender for baking and sculpting).. I made this little image this weekend - side project of my own. I even developed my own plugin to make HLSL shader passes within it. It uses DirectX 9, it’s a 32 bit program, it’s slow, clunky, and it still is in beta… but 5 years later, I can still use it for the fun of it, popping out HD frames every 4 seconds with a 3D modeling and animation package within a DirectX viewport - oh and server based 3D spaces for modeling tutoring.. even with my newer machines and video cards. So.. if only one could scale in future releases, having it not continue development is not that big of an issue - yes whatever gets the job done the best/quickest way - which also depends on the artists/workflow…. but damn, not being able to scale it later on will be.. a problem. I am a more bug fixes/third-party development/workflow kind of guy - it’s hard to stay educated all the time with the progress of all the new bells and whistles… so having a finite knowledge of a software is nice - without it having to grow it’s features exponentially and the knowledge requirements… But I’m still young.. what do I know!? 2 cents! Someone should be collecting these cents. -Draise Ph: +57 313 811 6821
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Can't we just all agree that Autodesk are a bunch of loathsome cunt's, and try to move on hopefully towards a package divorced from their influence with occasinal patching ups using our old SI's where necessary ? On 29 July 2014 07:48, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Alok, as you said: The demand in our industry is the usual : More efficiency in lesser time. That is what we have with SI, nt so much with Maya. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Andres Stephens drais...@outlook.com wrote: My only concern is topping up on a good number of lisenses so it lasts in my workflow (and finding the cash for it)… not sure how to scale it though…. after they stop handing out licenses. *Still curious as to why it would be hard to sell digital copies online, no marketing, with digital licenses, without development.. wouldn’tit have good PR for old faithful followers and rep, also.. consideration, and.. it does nothing for the current marketing strategy. Why lock it up? Anyway, sorry, enough rant.* I still use trueSpace, though it was EOL’d back in 2009, and using other software to do what it can’t for what I want on the side (Blender for baking and sculpting).. I made this little image this weekend - side project of my own. I even developed my own plugin to make HLSL shader passes within it. It uses DirectX 9, it’s a 32 bit program, it’s slow, clunky, and it still is in beta… but 5 years later, I can still use it for the fun of it, popping out HD frames every 4 seconds with a 3D modeling and animation package within a DirectX viewport - oh and server based 3D spaces for modeling tutoring.. even with my newer machines and video cards. So.. if only one could scale in future releases, having it not continue development is not that big of an issue - yes whatever gets the job done the best/quickest way - which also depends on the artists/workflow…. but damn, not being able to scale it later on will be.. a problem. I am a more bug fixes/third-party development/workflow kind of guy - it’s hard to stay educated all the time with the progress of all the new bells and whistles… so having a finite knowledge of a software is nice - without it having to grow it’s features exponentially and the knowledge requirements… But I’m still young.. what do I know!? 2 cents! Someone should be collecting these cents. -Draise Ph: +57 313 811 6821
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Unfortunately for Education that EOL moniker is very much the kiss of death. While businesses can use SI until its pried from their cold dead fingers, we would never get any students for courses that teach EOL software. No Matter how superior it may be to the alternatives. In fact just to show you how skewed the reality it creates is we have to teach maya going forward until another software has sufficient market share to allow us to switch. Currently we are looking at that being Modo and roughly 2-3 years before we can switch. We had finally built up momentum to the point where we could enter international competitions and actually get placed by batting well above our average with SI. Now we will loose all of that with Maya. Friggen heartbreaking. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Do your kids work in teams Angus or as one man enterprises ? cause SI is great for singles but if you are going to have to teach them maya... best take a leaf out of the french schools book, e.g goblin supinfocom or ESMA. typically the kids coordinate of into groups each bringing their interests to the table, rigging or art direction or animation, it's a pain in the ass to keep things balanced, and i suspect it confines there learning to specific areas instead of a generalized approach of the workflow, but let's be honest there is no such thing as a maya generalist. i mean that you might be able to do all the things, but maya jobs seem very much to be need specific, so a modeller or a renderer, or a rigger. On 29 July 2014 08:40, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: Unfortunately for Education that EOL moniker is very much the kiss of death. While businesses can use SI until its pried from their cold dead fingers, we would never get any students for courses that teach EOL software. No Matter how superior it may be to the alternatives. In fact just to show you how skewed the reality it creates is we have to teach maya going forward until another software has sufficient market share to allow us to switch. Currently we are looking at that being Modo and roughly 2-3 years before we can switch. We had finally built up momentum to the point where we could enter international competitions and actually get placed by batting well above our average with SI. Now we will loose all of that with Maya. Friggen heartbreaking. This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
We work in teams of 3 Students. With our 3D lecturer being the producer. The students have been given responsibility over either art direction, technical direction or animation (although they will work in all areas where needed). I am there to help on pipeline , lighting and rendering and mostly when the shit hits the fan ;) The team strengths shift from year to year but we try and keep them as balanced as we can. We also try and encourage to really push what they are good at. This was very easy under Softimage as you didn’t spend half your time trouble shooting ;( From: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Tuesday 29 July 2014 at 11:25 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL Do your kids work in teams Angus or as one man enterprises ? cause SI is great for singles but if you are going to have to teach them maya... best take a leaf out of the french schools book, e.g goblin supinfocom or ESMA. typically the kids coordinate of into groups each bringing their interests to the table, rigging or art direction or animation, it's a pain in the ass to keep things balanced, and i suspect it confines there learning to specific areas instead of a generalized approach of the workflow, but let's be honest there is no such thing as a maya generalist. i mean that you might be able to do all the things, but maya jobs seem very much to be need specific, so a modeller or a renderer, or a rigger. On 29 July 2014 08:40, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.zamailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: Unfortunately for Education that EOL moniker is very much the kiss of death. While businesses can use SI until its pried from their cold dead fingers, we would never get any students for courses that teach EOL software. No Matter how superior it may be to the alternatives. In fact just to show you how skewed the reality it creates is we have to teach maya going forward until another software has sufficient market share to allow us to switch. Currently we are looking at that being Modo and roughly 2-3 years before we can switch. We had finally built up momentum to the point where we could enter international competitions and actually get placed by batting well above our average with SI. Now we will loose all of that with Maya. Friggen heartbreaking. This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Exactly. The fact that you can't scale your project is the problem, and the cause why Softimage has only a few years to survive. I'll still use Softimage as long as it gives me better performance even if I have to deal with exports / imports to and from Maya, but let's face it, SI has been murdered and It won't come back. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andres Stephens drais...@outlook.com wrote: if only one could scale in future releases, having it not continue development is not that big of an issue - yes whatever gets the job done the best/quickest way - which also depends on the artists/workflow…. but damn, not being able to scale it later on will be.. a problem.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Softimage seems pretty scalable, adviz, kids TV, videogames, MMO, feature film :P On 29 July 2014 12:17, Martin Yara furik...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. The fact that you can't scale your project is the problem, and the cause why Softimage has only a few years to survive. I'll still use Softimage as long as it gives me better performance even if I have to deal with exports / imports to and from Maya, but let's face it, SI has been murdered and It won't come back. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andres Stephens drais...@outlook.com wrote: if only one could scale in future releases, having it not continue development is not that big of an issue - yes whatever gets the job done the best/quickest way - which also depends on the artists/workflow…. but damn, not being able to scale it later on will be.. a problem.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Gingham pattern label generator for my mum's burgeoning pickle business. scalable is as scalable does if only AD had marketed xsi towards insane retired mothers :) -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Tue, Jul 29, 2014, at 03:34 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Softimage seems pretty scalable, adviz, kids TV, videogames, MMO, feature film :P
Re: Softimage is not EOL
If only AD had marketed SI towards anyone... --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Instead of like... no one :P and actively berrying it in the product list :P On 29 July 2014 13:54, Emilio Hernandez emi...@e-roja.com wrote: If only AD had marketed SI towards anyone... --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Emilio Hernandez schreef op 29-7-2014 14:54: If only AD had marketed SI towards anyone... Frankly I am afraid they did market it to a specific group, namely us, the existing user base. We fully accepted the future is bright PR that was going on and kept paying for a product that seemed to get less development every year... Marketing-wise that was quite an achievement as such. Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Sorry, I meant scalable as increasing your seats and artists in the process if needed. The first one will become impossible as soon as SI disappear from the ultimate suites, and the second one quite difficult. Martin Sent from my iPhone On 2014/07/29, at 21:34, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Softimage seems pretty scalable, adviz, kids TV, videogames, MMO, feature film :P On 29 July 2014 12:17, Martin Yara furik...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. The fact that you can't scale your project is the problem, and the cause why Softimage has only a few years to survive. I'll still use Softimage as long as it gives me better performance even if I have to deal with exports / imports to and from Maya, but let's face it, SI has been murdered and It won't come back. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andres Stephens drais...@outlook.com wrote: if only one could scale in future releases, having it not continue development is not that big of an issue - yes whatever gets the job done the best/quickest way - which also depends on the artists/workflow…. but damn, not being able to scale it later on will be.. a problem.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Actually, they sort of kept relaxing the terms ever since the announcement, until you can now get single licences (as I learned in more than one occasion) Or perhaps is it resellers having a hard time saying 'no' to questions like.. "Hi I would like 5 licences please." On 07/29/14 11:57, Martin wrote: Sorry, I meant scalable as increasing your seats and artists in the process if needed. The first one will become impossible as soon as SI disappear from the ultimate suites, and the second one quite difficult. Martin Sent from my iPhone On 2014/07/29, at 21:34, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Softimage seems pretty scalable, adviz, kids TV, videogames, MMO, feature film :P On 29 July 2014 12:17, Martin Yara furik...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. The fact that you can't scale your project is the problem, and the cause why Softimage has only a few years to survive. I'll still use Softimage as long as it gives me better performance even if I have to deal with exports / imports to and from Maya, but let's face it, SI has been murdered and It won't come back. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andres Stephens drais...@outlook.com wrote: if only one could scale in future releases, having it not continue development is not that big of an issue - yes whatever gets the job done the best/quickest way - which also depends on the artists/workflow…. but damn, not being able to scale it later on will be.. a problem.
Re: Softimage is not EOL
On 07/29/14 15:42, Jason S wrote: Or perhaps is it resellers having a hard time saying 'no' to questions like.. "Hi I would like 5 licences please." Resellers and/or Autodesk (I wouldn't expect an official statement though) But why not make SI/ICE in the same state as Composite / MatchMover is beyond me, especially considering it's uniqueness. (or is it it's uniqueness that's preventing just that)
Re: Softimage is not EOL
remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It'sproprietary software. sven
Re: Softimage is not EOL
B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It's*proprietary software.* sven
RE: Softimage is not EOL
B isn't a big deal for Windows software as it has a lot of backwards compatibility built in. I can still install and run SI3D on windows 7, for example. Not suggesting anybody rely on that point, but it's there. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:47 PM To: XSI Mailing List Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fmmailto:jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fmmailto:jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It'sproprietary software. sven
Re: Softimage is not EOL
You are on step 3 already (Bargaining), we've jumped anger! On Monday, 28 July 2014, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: B isn’t a big deal for Windows software as it has a lot of backwards compatibility built in. I can still install and run SI3D on windows 7, for example. Not suggesting anybody rely on that point, but it’s there. Matt *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com'); [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');] *On Behalf Of *Alan Fregtman *Sent:* Monday, July 28, 2014 2:47 PM *To:* XSI Mailing List *Subject:* Re: Softimage is not EOL B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm'); wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm'); On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It's*proprietary software.* sven
RE: Softimage is not EOL
There are companies working with Softimage 7.01 today. Thats before the adsk-aquisition in 2008. How many of your projects could potentially be done with a software 8 years ago if not using softimage? I would say none of them. For small or medium sized companies, using softimage maybe all of them. Autodesk keeps software running that is from the early nienties and it runs today. Not because they're developing it. They do not anything to keep it up to date. It's just how the windows platform works. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:47 PM To: XSI Mailing List Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It'sproprietary software. sven
RE: Softimage is not EOL
No, I keep SI3D around for legacy stuff in my portfolio. Rarely touch it, but it’s not easy to convert. I was planning to write plugins to get data out as the built-in converter for XSI didn’t support what I needed, but SI3D plugins need to be written using Visual Studio v6, which I have, but I can’t get it to successfully compile on anything newer than a Pentium 3 – which I no longer have. So I just leave my stuff in SI3D format. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal Infante Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:59 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL You are on step 3 already (Bargaining), we've jumped anger! On Monday, 28 July 2014, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.commailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: B isn’t a big deal for Windows software as it has a lot of backwards compatibility built in. I can still install and run SI3D on windows 7, for example. Not suggesting anybody rely on that point, but it’s there. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com'); [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:47 PM To: XSI Mailing List Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fmjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm'); wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fmjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm'); On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It'sproprietary software. sven
Re: Softimage is not EOL
Does this even matter? Facts are... 1. Softimage is not available to anyone for purchase anymore 2. Softimage is not actively developed anymore Sure, if you freeze your hardware, OS, and drivers at this point, you'll be able to run Soft for the rest of your life. If that's what you want, be our guest (and I mean this in the best possible way). I'm sure many facilities will operate like that for a while, while looking for a viable alternative. Because at some point, if they intend to remain competitive, they'll have to jump on to something else. I'm still running combustion 4. Because I seldom need it, but it does what I need very well. But I have to deal with a lot of issues when I do. And because my living does not depend on it. If it did, I'd be crazy doing this. My $0.02. Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: There are companies working with Softimage 7.01 today. Thats before the adsk-aquisition in 2008. How many of your projects could potentially be done with a software 8 years ago if not using softimage? I would say none of them. For small or medium sized companies, using softimage maybe all of them. Autodesk keeps software running that is from the early nienties and it runs today. Not because they're developing it. They do not anything to keep it up to date. It's just how the windows platform works. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:47 PM To: XSI Mailing List Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It'sproprietary software. sven
Re: Softimage is not EOL
On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. It's life as in a product's lifecycle. End of Life is a business term that has a precise definition. http://goo.gl/CaiIxp
RE: Softimage is not EOL
The fact that Softimage is not available to new costumers doesn't mean anything to the value of the software itself. Take a look at software from pixar, ILM or Weta an many more big studios. They invented things, pushed their capabilities further without ANY backward compatibility to a company like Adsk or *any* Autodesk product in mind. Would you say the pixar,ILM,Weta or Rhythm and Hues' tools are worthless just because they were not developed for everybody or not actively developed since march 2014 by Adsk? Its not that we are talking about dead software. We're talking about very active software that is just not actively developed by autodesk anymore, thats all. And thank god about this. :) sven From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sergio Mucino Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:39 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL Does this even matter? Facts are... 1. Softimage is not available to anyone for purchase anymore 2. Softimage is not actively developed anymore Sure, if you freeze your hardware, OS, and drivers at this point, you'll be able to run Soft for the rest of your life. If that's what you want, be our guest (and I mean this in the best possible way). I'm sure many facilities will operate like that for a while, while looking for a viable alternative. Because at some point, if they intend to remain competitive, they'll have to jump on to something else. I'm still running combustion 4. Because I seldom need it, but it does what I need very well. But I have to deal with a lot of issues when I do. And because my living does not depend on it. If it did, I'd be crazy doing this. My $0.02. Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: There are companies working with Softimage 7.01 today. Thats before the adsk-aquisition in 2008. How many of your projects could potentially be done with a software 8 years ago if not using softimage? I would say none of them. For small or medium sized companies, using softimage maybe all of them. Autodesk keeps software running that is from the early nienties and it runs today. Not because they're developing it. They do not anything to keep it up to date. It's just how the windows platform works. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:47 PM To: XSI Mailing List Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL B is inevitable and only a matter of time... Better prepare to switch before the metaphorical door of incompatibility hits you in the face. My $0.02, -- Alan On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm wrote: remind us again, what stage of grief is denial ? -- Jon Swindells jon_swinde...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Jul 28, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Sven Constable wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. But because I thought about what Softimage is currently as a product, I would like to dive deeper into the subject:) The question is: Is it EOL software or not? Answer: It's not EOL software. It's proprietary software! The definition of EOL software is: A: A software that doesn't fit current production needs. B: A software that doesn't run on todays hardware, so it's no longer usable on your hardware (like SGI or NT software). On the other hand the definition of proprietary software is: A: A software that can accomplish things that are not doable by common (or commercial software), out of the box or in the same timeframe or at the same cost. Companies developing their own inhouse tools to do just that. B: A software that is not available to the public. Think about it and decide on your own. Softimage ist not EOL at all. It'sproprietary software. sven
RE: Softimage is not EOL
It's not precise at all. It depends on the POV. Two are available. Here's the developers view: End-of-life (EOL) is a term used with respect to a product supplied to customers, indicating that the product is in the end of its useful life (from the vendor's point of view), and a vendor intends to stop marketing, selling, or sustaining it. (The vendor may simply intend to limit or end support for the product.) In the specific case of product sales, a vendor may employ the more specific term end-of-sale (EOS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-life_(product) Or the costumers view: 'End of life(EOL) is when the costumer has no use for it and will no longer pay for it.' sven -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:26 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. It's life as in a product's lifecycle. End of Life is a business term that has a precise definition. http://goo.gl/CaiIxp
RE: Softimage is not EOL
The customer's side is called End of Useful Life, or EOUL. Matt -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sven Constable Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:55 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Softimage is not EOL It's not precise at all. It depends on the POV. Two are available. Here's the developers view: End-of-life (EOL) is a term used with respect to a product supplied to customers, indicating that the product is in the end of its useful life (from the vendor's point of view), and a vendor intends to stop marketing, selling, or sustaining it. (The vendor may simply intend to limit or end support for the product.) In the specific case of product sales, a vendor may employ the more specific term end-of-sale (EOS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-life_(product) Or the costumers view: 'End of life(EOL) is when the costumer has no use for it and will no longer pay for it.' sven -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:26 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Softimage is not EOL On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Hi list, Some people (Adsk) told me recently that Softimage is EOL. Well, one could argue that the word life in terms of software is ridicilous in the first place. It's life as in a product's lifecycle. End of Life is a business term that has a precise definition. http://goo.gl/CaiIxp
Re: Softimage is not EOL
*And yet it moves...* --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation
Re: Softimage is not EOL
(2) (*End Of Life*) Refers to the planned demise of a hardware or software *product* due to its natural evolution from utility to obsolescence. By the above definition, it seems to me that Softimage was *murdered *rather than *EOL'ed *;) All to make way for the master race...erm master software. On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Emilio Hernandez emi...@e-roja.com wrote: *And yet it moves...* --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation -- -=T=-
Re: Softimage is not EOL
On 07/28/14 20:52, Emilio Hernandez
wrote:
And yet it moves...
---
Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation
Yep, I guess 'moves' is a way to put it..
Until it won't essentially blow most (if not essentially all) things
out of the water (on a good deal of key points) .. particularly
(ultimately) on the aspects of getting from point A to (an 'ILM'
class) point B, without involving things like hundreds of corrective
blendshapes, weeks per frame (per machine), or practically buiding
another software internally (either on top of an existing one, or
from scratch using software development floors or departments), it
wont really be exactly quite dead.
You see all these new (or not so new) things that are perhaps
'artist friendly' (while not being enough customizable or
-scalable-)
or things that are perhaps really powerful (while far from being
qualifyable as 'friendly')
But regardless of when what came out, it's still the same struggle
of striking that balance (or not to mention, getting to a good deal
of overlap) and it really does seem to be a very-very tricky thing
to do to say the least.
Like trying to both increase quality AND reduce production time at
the same time, .. while taking care of one aspect doing the exact
opposite to the other aspect.
So until ('Keyatsu'?), is able to take arbitrary amounts of limbs
(or otherwise become more customisable (apparently).. or.. become
not just about rigging) or until Dreamworks would release Apollo..
or **something**..., while SI may be technically EOL (technically),
you can bet your nerf guns that anyone with access to it, will have
some sort of internal conflict, especially when having experienced
the grass on various sides in the real world (while telling
ourselves "at least it's not 'EOL'")
With some (if not many) going-on with it, only for that particular
benifit of being able to do high(est) level (custom) stuff in a very
(still by pretty far the most) efficient way to this day.
So ya 'moves' can be a pretty good way to put.
SI can really move (mountains) :)
Re: Softimage is not EOL
We have been through all of this before so I think a war for mere words and definitions is futile however lofty the loyalties for Soft are. It is a fact that to keep up with the pace of newer developments, people have to change. The demand in our industry is the usual : More efficiency in lesser time. There will be developments elsewhere and change is inevitable. My 0.2 paise.
