Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
unfortunately, he is just matching the intensity of remarks which have been thrown around this thread and forum for a month now. i am frankly sick of this back and forth. first a new thread starts, people chime in, it escalates until some name calling or some unfounded accusation (conspiracy theory) is made and then the current autodesk employees chime in to defend themselves and/or try to de-escalate the situation by countering the wild accusations. it comes to nearly the same anticlimactic conclusion every time! it is very annoying... and i gotta say this... show some eff'n respect people! especially to the ex-si developers that are still chiming in here. brent chimes in and people start thinking he is new to the list?! oh my! someone is really showing their age. you guys are all so strung out and aggressive you attack anyone you don't know or that has an @autodesk.com email address. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: You've done it before and you still went straight to SI for your sordid little case and point, it's the fact you keep using previous SI developers/ development as a target even if you are only trying to make up a bunch of BS for comparison. As a matter a fact, yes i do actually have a hate boner against AD, they slashed my fucking livelihood forcing me to retrain to stay relevant in this industry. i think you will find i'm not alone to have come down with this condition DUDE BRA! There's enough hate boners here to fuel the sun. On 2 April 2014 22:22, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Luc Eric [...] Your hate boner for SI and it's past development is perplexing, I don't much care about the behaviors of previous developers. Dude, the stuff I wrote was all made up stuff to prove that you can make cynical stuff the way you do about anything. You're the one with the hate boner.
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
I don't often do this, but... +1 The list has degraded in its participation and contents considerably, and I've already seen many good names disappear for it. Ironically enough the people who are the angriest about the death of XSI and lashing back with a spiteful attitude while saying at the same time that the app and this list shouldn't be left to die are putting in a pretty damn decent effort to ensure that such decay if accelerating on a daily basis. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: unfortunately, he is just matching the intensity of remarks which have been thrown around this thread and forum for a month now. i am frankly sick of this back and forth. first a new thread starts, people chime in, it escalates until some name calling or some unfounded accusation (conspiracy theory) is made and then the current autodesk employees chime in to defend themselves and/or try to de-escalate the situation by countering the wild accusations. it comes to nearly the same anticlimactic conclusion every time! it is very annoying... and i gotta say this... show some eff'n respect people! especially to the ex-si developers that are still chiming in here. brent chimes in and people start thinking he is new to the list?! oh my! someone is really showing their age. you guys are all so strung out and aggressive you attack anyone you don't know or that has an @autodesk.com email address. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: You've done it before and you still went straight to SI for your sordid little case and point, it's the fact you keep using previous SI developers/ development as a target even if you are only trying to make up a bunch of BS for comparison. As a matter a fact, yes i do actually have a hate boner against AD, they slashed my fucking livelihood forcing me to retrain to stay relevant in this industry. i think you will find i'm not alone to have come down with this condition DUDE BRA! There's enough hate boners here to fuel the sun. On 2 April 2014 22:22, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Luc Eric [...] Your hate boner for SI and it's past development is perplexing, I don't much care about the behaviors of previous developers. Dude, the stuff I wrote was all made up stuff to prove that you can make cynical stuff the way you do about anything. You're the one with the hate boner. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
+1 Considering the guys from AD chipping in are simply trying to help the least we could do is being respectful and maintain a professional attitude. Let's wrap this one please. Jb Sent from my iPhone On 3 Apr 2014, at 07:45, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: I don't often do this, but... +1 The list has degraded in its participation and contents considerably, and I've already seen many good names disappear for it. Ironically enough the people who are the angriest about the death of XSI and lashing back with a spiteful attitude while saying at the same time that the app and this list shouldn't be left to die are putting in a pretty damn decent effort to ensure that such decay if accelerating on a daily basis. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: unfortunately, he is just matching the intensity of remarks which have been thrown around this thread and forum for a month now. i am frankly sick of this back and forth. first a new thread starts, people chime in, it escalates until some name calling or some unfounded accusation (conspiracy theory) is made and then the current autodesk employees chime in to defend themselves and/or try to de-escalate the situation by countering the wild accusations. it comes to nearly the same anticlimactic conclusion every time! it is very annoying... and i gotta say this... show some eff'n respect people! especially to the ex-si developers that are still chiming in here. brent chimes in and people start thinking he is new to the list?! oh my! someone is really showing their age. you guys are all so strung out and aggressive you attack anyone you don't know or that has an @autodesk.com email address. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: You've done it before and you still went straight to SI for your sordid little case and point, it's the fact you keep using previous SI developers/ development as a target even if you are only trying to make up a bunch of BS for comparison. As a matter a fact, yes i do actually have a hate boner against AD, they slashed my fucking livelihood forcing me to retrain to stay relevant in this industry. i think you will find i'm not alone to have come down with this condition DUDE BRA! There's enough hate boners here to fuel the sun. On 2 April 2014 22:22, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Luc Eric [...] Your hate boner for SI and it's past development is perplexing, I don't much care about the behaviors of previous developers. Dude, the stuff I wrote was all made up stuff to prove that you can make cynical stuff the way you do about anything. You're the one with the hate boner. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Let's just call it off yet again (sigh). I'm tired of this shit too. Not entirely sure what is being perceived as overtly conspiratorial, the issues are their it's not just my opinion that AD bought all three DCC's or killed Softimage or stagers feature releases or the subsequent cost to clients. I however i do take responsibility for my interpretation, but as i pointed out, there is so little room for any other interpretation. so no i don't think this qualifies as a conspiracy theory that said I'm able to see when I'm merely fueling, and getting obnoxious. If i have to come out the bad guy on this one so be it, just looks all the more grotesque when you look at the bigger picture. but yea i also want this to stop. On 3 April 2014 07:45, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.comwrote: I don't often do this, but... +1 The list has degraded in its participation and contents considerably, and I've already seen many good names disappear for it. Ironically enough the people who are the angriest about the death of XSI and lashing back with a spiteful attitude while saying at the same time that the app and this list shouldn't be left to die are putting in a pretty damn decent effort to ensure that such decay if accelerating on a daily basis. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: unfortunately, he is just matching the intensity of remarks which have been thrown around this thread and forum for a month now. i am frankly sick of this back and forth. first a new thread starts, people chime in, it escalates until some name calling or some unfounded accusation (conspiracy theory) is made and then the current autodesk employees chime in to defend themselves and/or try to de-escalate the situation by countering the wild accusations. it comes to nearly the same anticlimactic conclusion every time! it is very annoying... and i gotta say this... show some eff'n respect people! especially to the ex-si developers that are still chiming in here. brent chimes in and people start thinking he is new to the list?! oh my! someone is really showing their age. you guys are all so strung out and aggressive you attack anyone you don't know or that has an @autodesk.com email address. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: You've done it before and you still went straight to SI for your sordid little case and point, it's the fact you keep using previous SI developers/ development as a target even if you are only trying to make up a bunch of BS for comparison. As a matter a fact, yes i do actually have a hate boner against AD, they slashed my fucking livelihood forcing me to retrain to stay relevant in this industry. i think you will find i'm not alone to have come down with this condition DUDE BRA! There's enough hate boners here to fuel the sun. On 2 April 2014 22:22, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Luc Eric [...] Your hate boner for SI and it's past development is perplexing, I don't much care about the behaviors of previous developers. Dude, the stuff I wrote was all made up stuff to prove that you can make cynical stuff the way you do about anything. You're the one with the hate boner. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Politics!? You obviously never worked in a large company before? ;-) Do you seriously think that in a competitive market a company can/will sit back and drip out features as part of some evil master plan? Success can obviously lead to complacency (which is why competition is healthy/important) but a large product with a diverse customer base will also find it much harder to satisfy all their customers and the hallmark of good product management and leadership is knowing what to focus on. Sorry, just getting tired of all this conspiracy bullshit. -- Brent From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: 01 April 2014 17:12 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 AD has always played politics with its upgrades, it's not about giving you the most efficient tools today, but releasing them in a slow staggered and incomplete fashion, so it takes several release and considerable investment before you actually get a functional addition to your workflow. they say it's so people have time to adjust to the change which is all so much commendable bullshit. Now and again they'll chuck a few sweets out when people get rowdy often followed by the statement You SEE !!! we really do have your best interest at heart or WE really do listen to you ! It's what they did for Syflex, Nex and the viewport enhancements in 3ds max to name just a few. and it's what they will do with bifrost, totting up every marginal update as a NEW feature. New Bifrost! now with tear of Menus, Gasp ! Most of these modeling enhancements such as the shrink wrap are things that could have been added years ago, but are only being added in recent releases. i refuse to believe that these sort of tools are that difficult to implement. A lot of this shitty attitude hearkens back to the years of stagnation during the three package monopoly. You might argue that ICE took several release to have the functionality it has today... but then you would have to go watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0QOtmKNnuY and realize that ICE offered considerably more in its first incarnation, then Bifrost will in even it's third iteration. On 1 April 2014 12:52, Xiaodong Xu xdx...@vip.sina.commailto:xdx...@vip.sina.com wrote: I’ve been waiting for 15 years just for the late coming shrinkwrap deformer. Pitty! Xiao-dong 发件人: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] 代表 Eugen Sares 发送时间: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:35 PM 收件人: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 主题: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Did anything change already with Maya 2015 to the better? Not that I very much long to use it... I'm curious, though, if Autodesk can be taken by it's word this time - to 'humanize Maya', and the pace at which this is happening. Anyway, it will be most interesting to learn what the most forthcoming option will be in the near future. I hope with Modo 801 and Houdini 14 (or whatever next version) it will become clear enough where things are heading to, to make a (part time) transition. -- Originalnachricht -- Von: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com An: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Gesendet: 01.04.2014 12:29:36 Betreff: Re: March 28, 2014 Maya is the best choice for character creators Why ? What makes it so ? You can do this in any number of DCC's, you can do it in max and softimage. In maya you will have to deal with the worst skinning tools ever conceived, not to mention the myriads of scripts just to ensure contemporary functionality. I don't understand this argument. specialy considering Maya's established roll as a studio tool, where the pipeline is broken up into fields. people using maya for generalist purposes is not the norm usually they stick to their fields. [http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png]http://www.avast.com/ Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! Antivirushttp://www.avast.com/ Schutz ist aktiv. attachment: winmail.dat
答复: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
I don't think it is anything related to polictics, but there must be something wrong in the feedback between user and developer. Maya is a strong, flexible software, and used by a lot of top production houses, which have very strong RD ability. I think they can easily write their own shrinkwrap deformer long time ago. I think Maya listen little from those individuals or small companies. Those feedback are really important to improve humanity of Maya, since those feedback are based on Maya delivered by AD, not a customized Maya. Shrinkwrap is so useful in both modeling and animation, I can't imagine that Maya dev team knows little about it. When I started to use Maya from very early version (around 3.0), I've asked if there would be such kind of deformer (finally we wrote our own). Until 2015, that deformer finally gets added to Maya. Is it that useless to you? Maya's learning curve is steeper than other packages especially for those individuals and small teams. I've been using both Softimage and Maya for more than 10 years, and used to be the lead TD of a Maya-based studio. The most interesting thing is: after some time not using Maya (like 1-2 months), you will easily forget some operation. This seldom happens on Softimage. For Softimage, when I forget something, with a little memory and some human logical thought, I can easily pick it up. But for Maya, I have to obey Maya ways. So this thread is to help Maya to be more human. I have enough experience on both packages, and I can tell Softimage is indeed more artist friendly. Xiao-dong -邮件原件- 发件人: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] 代表 Brent McPherson 发送时间: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 5:24 PM 收件人: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 主题: RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Politics!? You obviously never worked in a large company before? ;-) Do you seriously think that in a competitive market a company can/will sit back and drip out features as part of some evil master plan? Success can obviously lead to complacency (which is why competition is healthy/important) but a large product with a diverse customer base will also find it much harder to satisfy all their customers and the hallmark of good product management and leadership is knowing what to focus on. Sorry, just getting tired of all this conspiracy bullshit. -- Brent From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: 01 April 2014 17:12 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 AD has always played politics with its upgrades, it's not about giving you the most efficient tools today, but releasing them in a slow staggered and incomplete fashion, so it takes several release and considerable investment before you actually get a functional addition to your workflow. they say it's so people have time to adjust to the change which is all so much commendable bullshit. Now and again they'll chuck a few sweets out when people get rowdy often followed by the statement You SEE !!! we really do have your best interest at heart or WE really do listen to you ! It's what they did for Syflex, Nex and the viewport enhancements in 3ds max to name just a few. and it's what they will do with bifrost, totting up every marginal update as a NEW feature. New Bifrost! now with tear of Menus, Gasp ! Most of these modeling enhancements such as the shrink wrap are things that could have been added years ago, but are only being added in recent releases. i refuse to believe that these sort of tools are that difficult to implement. A lot of this shitty attitude hearkens back to the years of stagnation during the three package monopoly. You might argue that ICE took several release to have the functionality it has today... but then you would have to go watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0QOtmKNnuY and realize that ICE offered considerably more in its first incarnation, then Bifrost will in even it's third iteration. On 1 April 2014 12:52, Xiaodong Xu xdx...@vip.sina.commailto:xdx...@vip.sina.com wrote: I’ve been waiting for 15 years just for the late coming shrinkwrap deformer. Pitty! Xiao-dong 发件人: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] 代表 Eugen Sares 发送时间: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:35 PM 收件人: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 主题: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Did anything change already with Maya 2015 to the better? Not that I very much long to use it... I'm curious, though, if Autodesk can be taken by it's word this time - to 'humanize Maya', and the pace at which this is happening. Anyway, it will be most interesting to learn what the most forthcoming option will be in the near future. I hope with Modo 801
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Um. I have always been on the list. (well since 1998 when I joined Soft. :-) In the absence of information people usually end up drawing their own conclusions. One of the downsides of working in a public companies is that you can't really talk freely about plans etc. so this is something devs like myself generally avoid. Having someone higher up like Chris engage this list gives us a little more freedom to open up on the initiatives that have been publically announced. Cheers. -- Brent From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Angus Davidson Sent: 02 April 2014 12:38 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Hi Brent Just to clear up this is far more about perception then conspiracy. Before you guys all joined the list this month we had been in pretty much a vacuum as far as information goes. He does have a very valid point on the marginal update thing though. Autodesk has done that a lot over the years. To give you an example in Softimage they touted the camera sequencer as one of the major updates of the previous release. An item that a) was paid for by a specific japanese games company (so not done via maintenance) b) was pretty much useless to anyone else as it couldn't handle motion blur directly forcing you to do that in post. Also company politics was very much in game for softimage as it was incredibly difficult to buy it in many countries via resellers. So if people seem upset and wary about Autodesk you can now understand why. Great to have you on the list. Hopefully little things like the centering methodology can broaden you understanding of our workflows Kind regards Angus From: Brent McPherson [brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com] Sent: 02 April 2014 11:24 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Politics!? You obviously never worked in a large company before? ;-) Do you seriously think that in a competitive market a company can/will sit back and drip out features as part of some evil master plan? Success can obviously lead to complacency (which is why competition is healthy/important) but a large product with a diverse customer base will also find it much harder to satisfy all their customers and the hallmark of good product management and leadership is knowing what to focus on. Sorry, just getting tired of all this conspiracy bullshit. -- Brent From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: 01 April 2014 17:12 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 AD has always played politics with its upgrades, it's not about giving you the most efficient tools today, but releasing them in a slow staggered and incomplete fashion, so it takes several release and considerable investment before you actually get a functional addition to your workflow. they say it's so people have time to adjust to the change which is all so much commendable bullshit. Now and again they'll chuck a few sweets out when people get rowdy often followed by the statement You SEE !!! we really do have your best interest at heart or WE really do listen to you ! It's what they did for Syflex, Nex and the viewport enhancements in 3ds max to name just a few. and it's what they will do with bifrost, totting up every marginal update as a NEW feature. New Bifrost! now with tear of Menus, Gasp ! Most of these modeling enhancements such as the shrink wrap are things that could have been added years ago, but are only being added in recent releases. i refuse to believe that these sort of tools are that difficult to implement. A lot of this shitty attitude hearkens back to the years of stagnation during the three package monopoly. You might argue that ICE took several release to have the functionality it has today... but then you would have to go watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0QOtmKNnuY and realize that ICE offered considerably more in its first incarnation, then Bifrost will in even it's third iteration. On 1 April 2014 12:52, Xiaodong Xu xdx...@vip.sina.commailto:xdx...@vip.sina.com wrote: I’ve been waiting for 15 years just for the late coming shrinkwrap deformer. Pitty! Xiao-dong 发件人: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] 代表 Eugen Sares 发送时间: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:35 PM 收件人: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 主题: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Did anything change already with Maya 2015 to the better? Not that I very much long to use it... I'm curious, though, if Autodesk can be taken by it's word this time - to 'humanize Maya', and the pace at which this is happening. Anyway, it will be most interesting
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Well, there still is a marked difference between someone who is ill-informed and makes an odd remark based on this and someone who actively engages/believes in conspiracy theories. Throwing the term conspiracy theory around in these kind of discussions somehow might give the impression someone is thinking the other to be some sort of nut-job. And such confusion should be avoided, I guess... Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog �C Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue �C Administrator @, NOT the owner of si-community.com
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Good point On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Leendert A. Hartog hirazib...@live.nlwrote: Well, there still is a marked difference between someone who is ill-informed and makes an odd remark based on this and someone who actively engages/believes in conspiracy theories. Throwing the term conspiracy theory around in these kind of discussions somehow might give the impression someone is thinking the other to be some sort of nut-job. And such confusion should be avoided, I guess... Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog - Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue - Administrator @, NOT the owner of si-community.com
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Leendert A. Hartog hirazib...@live.nl wrote: Well, there still is a marked difference between someone who is ill-informed and makes an odd remark based on this and someone who actively engages/believes in conspiracy theories. Throwing the term conspiracy theory around in these kind of discussions somehow might give the impression someone is thinking the other to be some sort of nut-job. And such confusion should be avoided, I guess... Nice to trim the post, but let's reread what was posted before defending it as not conspiracy-like. AD has always played politics with its upgrades, it's not about giving you the most efficient tools today, but releasing them in a slow staggered and incomplete fashion, so it takes several release and considerable investment before you actually get a functional addition to your workflow It's heading towards conspiracy territory indeed. That it all could have been done years ago in one shot, but the company simply chose to not do it to get more money. This type of releases would be an encouraging sign of constant development for Modo or Houdini, or anyone else, including Softimage at Avid. We could cynically say Softimage always knew it had a particle problems from day one, but they knew users wouldn't jump to ship, so they waited as long as they could before doing anything. Then of course they were panicking with the loss of some clients and started to be listening a lot to uses all the sudden about it and made ICE. Why didn't they listen the 10 years before that? Particles didn't start being to be a problem in 2006! Or we could cynically say Softimage always could have support third party renderers (even talked about PRMan support at one point), but decided to only support Mental Ray, and a pipeline based on softimage's proprietary shaders, so that they could get people trapped into paying them for mental ray licenses. Politics! Then finally around V6 they decided to open up an API they must have had all along internally and declared they were listening and how open they were becoming! See, anyone can be cynical and make stuff up that sounds real. And anyone has the right to call you out on that. I could do this all day! Let's do more, just to fan the flames?? No? OK anyway! How about Softmage doing absolutely nothing in animation in the last 10 years probably because they were not losing any japanese subscription money over that! The last thing done was the Shape Manager, a project probably paid by a big client. How about turn edge?? That was touted a big feature but it's a trivial thing game modellers have been asking since the days of Softimage|3D! How about user normals! That was a implemented as a plugin in the netview and it took 10 years before that was finally put in natively and then they touted it as big feature even though it must been trivial since they must have had all the code already! Etc.. etc.. etc.. It is the upmost cynicism to say that stuff like Bifrost or viewport enhancement is getting released incrementally to get more money. Every user of every package out there saying, give us more frequent updates, help us validate your features by seeing them and using them as they are being developed. There are monthly drops in the beta forums, and then if something is ready to go, it's released in an extension release to get it out there to a larger audience ASAP. Drawback, if you release things it adds more time to the development time because you have to clean some things up earlier. For example Softimage people worked between 2 and 3 years on ICE v1.0. Although it was probably impossible for that project, if they had made an intermediate release it might have added another year to the full V1.0. But the team did drop things like IK, applying ICE trees in branches and other stuff to make v1.0.
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
I am not defending or even attacking anyone here. I posted my doubts over the use of the term conspiracy theory for what it implies... I do strongly feel it doesn't help any discussion to imply the other is a nut-job... Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog – Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue – Administrator @, NOT the owner of si-community.com
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
When someone is throwing about unfounded accusations/speculation why not call them out on it? Sometimes you need to be told you are being an ass and not tiptoe around it. The original post was not a setup for polite and constructive discussion IMO and I don't think my usage of the term conspiracy theory was as bad as you are making it out to be. -- Brent -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leendert A. Hartog Sent: 02 April 2014 15:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 I am not defending or even attacking anyone here. I posted my doubts over the use of the term conspiracy theory for what it implies... I do strongly feel it doesn't help any discussion to imply the other is a nut-job... Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog – Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue – Administrator @, NOT the owner of si-community.com attachment: winmail.dat
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Ah well, case closed then... -- Leendert A. Hartog – Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue – Administrator @, NOT the owner of si-community.com
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Hi Luceric You conveniently seem to forget a few things a) You are on the inside (with all the knowledge )looking out as opposed to have no information and looking in. b) Places like the Foundry and SideFX engage with their clients on a level AD has even come close to. Even in the last month. c) You should be worrying less about conspiracy theories and more about how unprofessional your last post makes you and by extension your employer look like. d) Treating people with respect even when they are wrong goes down much better. e) There is a big difference between calling people out and correcting things, and purposely trying to make them feel stupid. So done here. From: Luc-Eric Rousseau [luceri...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 April 2014 03:48 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Leendert A. Hartog hirazib...@live.nl wrote: Well, there still is a marked difference between someone who is ill-informed and makes an odd remark based on this and someone who actively engages/believes in conspiracy theories. Throwing the term conspiracy theory around in these kind of discussions somehow might give the impression someone is thinking the other to be some sort of nut-job. And such confusion should be avoided, I guess... Nice to trim the post, but let's reread what was posted before defending it as not conspiracy-like. AD has always played politics with its upgrades, it's not about giving you the most efficient tools today, but releasing them in a slow staggered and incomplete fashion, so it takes several release and considerable investment before you actually get a functional addition to your workflow It's heading towards conspiracy territory indeed. That it all could have been done years ago in one shot, but the company simply chose to not do it to get more money. This type of releases would be an encouraging sign of constant development for Modo or Houdini, or anyone else, including Softimage at Avid. We could cynically say Softimage always knew it had a particle problems from day one, but they knew users wouldn't jump to ship, so they waited as long as they could before doing anything. Then of course they were panicking with the loss of some clients and started to be listening a lot to uses all the sudden about it and made ICE. Why didn't they listen the 10 years before that? Particles didn't start being to be a problem in 2006! Or we could cynically say Softimage always could have support third party renderers (even talked about PRMan support at one point), but decided to only support Mental Ray, and a pipeline based on softimage's proprietary shaders, so that they could get people trapped into paying them for mental ray licenses. Politics! Then finally around V6 they decided to open up an API they must have had all along internally and declared they were listening and how open they were becoming! See, anyone can be cynical and make stuff up that sounds real. And anyone has the right to call you out on that. I could do this all day! Let's do more, just to fan the flames?? No? OK anyway! How about Softmage doing absolutely nothing in animation in the last 10 years probably because they were not losing any japanese subscription money over that! The last thing done was the Shape Manager, a project probably paid by a big client. How about turn edge?? That was touted a big feature but it's a trivial thing game modellers have been asking since the days of Softimage|3D! How about user normals! That was a implemented as a plugin in the netview and it took 10 years before that was finally put in natively and then they touted it as big feature even though it must been trivial since they must have had all the code already! Etc.. etc.. etc.. It is the upmost cynicism to say that stuff like Bifrost or viewport enhancement is getting released incrementally to get more money. Every user of every package out there saying, give us more frequent updates, help us validate your features by seeing them and using them as they are being developed. There are monthly drops in the beta forums, and then if something is ready to go, it's released in an extension release to get it out there to a larger audience ASAP. Drawback, if you release things it adds more time to the development time because you have to clean some things up earlier. For example Softimage people worked between 2 and 3 years on ICE v1.0. Although it was probably impossible for that project, if they had made an intermediate release it might have added another year to the full V1.0. But the team did drop things like IK, applying ICE trees in branches and other stuff to make v1.0. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
I'm sorry I wouldn't necessarily agree with the second point below. I'm not saying that we're perfect, but there are different levels of engagement and we're not as invisible as many might seem to believe. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Angus Davidson Sent: 02 April 2014 15:40 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Hi Luceric You conveniently seem to forget a few things a) You are on the inside (with all the knowledge )looking out as opposed to have no information and looking in. b) Places like the Foundry and SideFX engage with their clients on a level AD has even come close to. Even in the last month. c) You should be worrying less about conspiracy theories and more about how unprofessional your last post makes you and by extension your employer look like. d) Treating people with respect even when they are wrong goes down much better. e) There is a big difference between calling people out and correcting things, and purposely trying to make them feel stupid. So done here. w unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table attachment: winmail.dat
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Then why is this what many might believe in the first place? On Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:05:44 PM, Graham Bell wrote: I'm sorry I wouldn't necessarily agree with the second point below. I'm not saying that we're perfect, but there are different levels of engagement and we're not as invisible as many might seem to believe.
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
i could be wrong but, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUXp_zE14E ... http://www.hackneyeffects.com/https://vimeo.com/user4174293http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21 http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/ http://spylon.tumblr.com/ This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 13:09:10 -0400 From: ethivie...@hybride.com To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 CC: graham.b...@autodesk.com Then why is this what many might believe in the first place? On Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:05:44 PM, Graham Bell wrote: I'm sorry I wouldn't necessarily agree with the second point below. I'm not saying that we're perfect, but there are different levels of engagement and we're not as invisible as many might seem to believe.
RE: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
It's natural and logical that they believe it and the answer lies in factorial increase. The number of combinations increases as a factorial as both company size and customer base increase, and that has a direct impact on interaction. Autodesk has more interactions with customers (total volume) than smaller companies but the sheer number of combinations makes it impossible to have the same level of intimacy between everyone at Autodesk ME and every customer. So there is a very real reason why large organizations appear less intimate, they are. But it does not mean we either care less or communicate less or that small companies are necessarily more open. They won't tell you everything either. If asked all the companies discussed on this list to comment on the following question Have never in the past nor will ever in the future consider selling yourself to Autodesk? I wonder how many would really truthfully answer that question. maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Thivierge Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 1:09 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Cc: Graham Bell Subject: Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Then why is this what many might believe in the first place? On Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:05:44 PM, Graham Bell wrote: I'm sorry I wouldn't necessarily agree with the second point below. I'm not saying that we're perfect, but there are different levels of engagement and we're not as invisible as many might seem to believe. attachment: winmail.dat
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
dudes calm down. like a kids in a park :) creating all those theories is really only AD fault due to poor PR communication with small size customer base and at the end they can only feel lied to, betrayed and start figuring what has happens, why things being done... giving some info now after 5 years of what most of people see like a lying doesn't help as everything AD say now is immediately classified as a lie. Simple as that. is it that hard to accept the fact that people are being screwed, whole working life turned up side down and just couple months ago they've bin lied to that everything is ok. I see image of chicken in the hands calming before snapping out it's neck. in any case it will take a lot of time, maybe even never before AD get not only trust but any respect at all from Softimage users. Another thing is that AD evil shadow image is stretched and label put over AD voices here on forum as well. People need someone to shout at so you guys really have to understand that you put your hand in the front to be thrown eggs and tomato at til storm is passed :) Grats for coruage and ened to do that, part of the job we know, but also you have to be aware taht after all Softimage people has bin through it is not possible to clearly and without emotional veil look and see things. And it won;t be for another 5-10-20... years... I know for sure that as ooold grayed out man will remember two horror days in my life, 1st when AD bought Softimage, and then when Softimage died... Feeling of sickness in stomach is pretty much still alive so understand us, throwing name and calling people crazy isn't helping.. yes we are crazy about Softimage
Re[2]: March 28, 2014
Did anything change already with Maya 2015 to the better? Not that I very much long to use it... I'm curious, though, if Autodesk can be taken by it's word this time - to 'humanize Maya', and the pace at which this is happening. Anyway, it will be most interesting to learn what the most forthcoming option will be in the near future. I hope with Modo 801 and Houdini 14 (or whatever next version) it will become clear enough where things are heading to, to make a (part time) transition. -- Originalnachricht -- Von: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com An: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Gesendet: 01.04.2014 12:29:36 Betreff: Re: March 28, 2014 Maya is the best choice for character creators Why ? What makes it so ? You can do this in any number of DCC's, you can do it in max and softimage. In maya you will have to deal with the worst skinning tools ever conceived, not to mention the myriads of scripts just to ensure contemporary functionality. I don't understand this argument. specialy considering Maya's established roll as a studio tool, where the pipeline is broken up into fields. people using maya for generalist purposes is not the norm usually they stick to their fields. --- Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! Antivirus Schutz ist aktiv. http://www.avast.com
答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
I’ve been waiting for 15 years just for the late coming shrinkwrap deformer. Pitty! Xiao-dong 发件人: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] 代表 Eugen Sares 发送时间: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:35 PM 收件人: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 主题: Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Did anything change already with Maya 2015 to the better? Not that I very much long to use it... I'm curious, though, if Autodesk can be taken by it's word this time - to 'humanize Maya', and the pace at which this is happening. Anyway, it will be most interesting to learn what the most forthcoming option will be in the near future. I hope with Modo 801 and Houdini 14 (or whatever next version) it will become clear enough where things are heading to, to make a (part time) transition. -- Originalnachricht -- Von: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com An: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Gesendet: 01.04.2014 12:29:36 Betreff: Re: March 28, 2014 Maya is the best choice for character creators Why ? What makes it so ? You can do this in any number of DCC's, you can do it in max and softimage. In maya you will have to deal with the worst skinning tools ever conceived, not to mention the myriads of scripts just to ensure contemporary functionality. I don't understand this argument. specialy considering Maya's established roll as a studio tool, where the pipeline is broken up into fields. people using maya for generalist purposes is not the norm usually they stick to their fields. _ http://www.avast.com/ Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ Schutz ist aktiv.
Re: 答复: Re[2]: March 28, 2014
AD has always played politics with its upgrades, it's not about giving you the most efficient tools today, but releasing them in a slow staggered and incomplete fashion, so it takes several release and considerable investment before you actually get a functional addition to your workflow. they say it's so people have time to adjust to the change which is all so much commendable bullshit. Now and again they'll chuck a few sweets out when people get rowdy often followed by the statement You SEE !!! we really do have your best interest at heart or WE really do listen to you ! It's what they did for Syflex, Nex and the viewport enhancements in 3ds max to name just a few. and it's what they will do with bifrost, totting up every marginal update as a NEW feature. New Bifrost! now with tear of Menus, Gasp ! Most of these modeling enhancements such as the shrink wrap are things that could have been added years ago, but are only being added in recent releases. i refuse to believe that these sort of tools are that difficult to implement. A lot of this shitty attitude hearkens back to the years of stagnation during the three package monopoly. You might argue that ICE took several release to have the functionality it has today... but then you would have to go watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0QOtmKNnuY and realize that ICE offered considerably more in its first incarnation, then Bifrost will in even it's third iteration. On 1 April 2014 12:52, Xiaodong Xu xdx...@vip.sina.com wrote: I’ve been waiting for 15 years just for the late coming shrinkwrap deformer. Pitty! Xiao-dong *发件人:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *代表 *Eugen Sares *发送时间:* Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:35 PM *收件人:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *主题:* Re[2]: March 28, 2014 Did anything change already with Maya 2015 to the better? Not that I very much long to use it... I'm curious, though, if Autodesk can be taken by it's word this time - to 'humanize Maya', and the pace at which this is happening. Anyway, it will be most interesting to learn what the most forthcoming option will be in the near future. I hope with Modo 801 and Houdini 14 (or whatever next version) it will become clear enough where things are heading to, to make a (part time) transition. -- Originalnachricht -- Von: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com An: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Gesendet: 01.04.2014 12:29:36 Betreff: Re: March 28, 2014 Maya is the best choice for character creators Why ? What makes it so ? You can do this in any number of DCC's, you can do it in max and softimage. In maya you will have to deal with the worst skinning tools ever conceived, not to mention the myriads of scripts just to ensure contemporary functionality. I don't understand this argument. specialy considering Maya's established roll as a studio tool, where the pipeline is broken up into fields. people using maya for generalist purposes is not the norm usually they stick to their fields. -- http://www.avast.com/ Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! Antivirushttp://www.avast.com/Schutz ist aktiv.
