RE: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Marc-Andre Carbonneau]

By the way… Never Alone is free on PS4 if you’re a PSN Plus subscriber… check 
it out.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Siew Yi Liang
Sent: January-20-15 12:17 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

Hi Eric:

No worries, I love being able to be corrected and learn more if I am mistaken 
over stuff! Although I hope I'm not going too much off on a tangent considering 
this is the XSI mailing list :P

- Shaderforge (or strumpy, whatever you prefer) is more or less essential imho 
, especially for prototyping stuff to see if it's even the right path to take 
(plus it's a nice way to have easy access to cool stuff like vertex deformation 
for cool effects without even stepping into Mono.) The problem is that it's not 
nearly as extensive as it needs to be (really, still no GPU noise function?!), 
and most of the time you also run into roadblocks that require you to go and 
make your own shaders anyway...and then you're left with trying to figure out 
two seperate shader systems. The bigger point is...why isn't this something 
that Unity devs focus on instead of just bringing in a 'new' PBR all-in-one 
shader?

- We did not use the Avatar for certain obvious characters that would in no way 
fit a Biped even remotely (the fox, for example, is treated as a Generic 
Avatar.) The nice thing is that your animation should come in 1-to-1 as you 
animated it, since this bypasses the Avatar system (and thus the RoM stuff 
entirely), although there are sometimes odd things that happen with gimbal 
flipping in animations (but those can be solved easily). The bad thing, and 
correct me if I'm wrong here, is that you lose all IK features. You also lose 
the ability to retarget animations from character to character. Which, for the 
fox, we didn't mind so much, since we didn't have any other characters that 
would share his animations. As for IK on the fox...that's why we made his paws 
so tiny :)

As for 2 spine bones and the devs' reasoning behind it (it's not even 
documented X_X):
http://blogs.unity3d.com/2014/05/26/mecanim-humanoids/

- Particle Playground is nice. However in testing it severely degraded 
performance and we decided not to investigate further into optimizing our 
engine for it. I did use it for some of my own personal freelance fx work and 
it was alright; like I mentioned, I ended up more scripting effect behaviours 
that I specifically wanted, and combined them with Shaderforge shaders on 
meshes to be able to control more effectively the final look without trying to 
figure out "why isn't this working?"

I think we just have to agree to disagree on the part of how Unity handles 
metadata for files though :P To me, it's absolutely mad how the devs are fine 
with the way the GUID/UUID system works, which to me defeats the whole purpose 
of them in the first place (and was an endless source of frustration for us 
since there's really no way around it, since we cannot predict how exactly 
Unity would generate the new GUIDs, and under what circumstances.) Since it 
applies to everything, from shaders to levels to models...it's just a terrible 
unnecessary roadblock to collaboration owing to the old implementation of the 
unity asset server, and should be given a serious rethink.

Anyway, that's as far as I'll go on the subject of Unity; I was glad for the 
experience tbh. (It makes me much more thankful other engines exist) I'd love 
to discuss more about it!... but we should probably have that conversation off 
the list. :X

(p.s. Thanks! Hope you enjoy the game when you get to playing it!)
On 1/20/2015 10:55 AM, Eric Turman wrote:
@ Siew Yi Lang
I felt compelled to respond to your review of Unity because of certain 
inaccuracies and/or misconceptions. I hope that you do not feel slighted as 
this is not a personal attack at all.

Although my day job now deals with commercial/film/vfx, I have worked on 
several AAA game titles in the past and I am currently wrapping up an indie 
game with two other people that we made in Unity. I'll admit that I agree with 
some of what you have stated but not nearly as strongly or vehemently. One 
point I will agree in is that while they have added a bunch of new features 
they do need to fix what is broken. That can be said of many software 
packages...I'm biting maya tongue right now to stay on topic and not to go off 
on a certain package.

Shaders: I agree that ShaderForge makes shader creation much easier and it is 
worth the added expense. 
Shaderforge<https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#%21/content/14147> has 
enabled us to develop some very specialized and unusual non-photo real shaders 
that could have been a stretch for us otherwise. That being said, we are 
friends with a programmer who codes his own non-node bas

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Angus Davidson]

Hi Raffaele

Our degree comprises of two streams. Half our students are from the Arts and 
half are Electronic Engineering.
The engineering stream does a significant amount of programming while the Arts 
stream is only lightly exposed . What has been interesting and has been greatly 
encouraged is we have had Art students really take to it and progressed to 
being on a par with the engineering students programming wise. The reverse has 
also been true. We take great care to nurture these cross overs as we feel they 
are very important. In both case we have a lot of support for Technical side of 
either art or programming

We are the first University in South Africa that is doing full degree so as 
such we don’t have many local peers, but we are very involved with the local 
Gaming industry, Most of which has its ground in either Gamemaker or Unity. 
Since the free version of Unreal was announced there has been a perceptible 
shift in the number of people working in Unreal.

Most of our work placement ties are based in the 3d Industry. This year is the 
first year any of our students will be at a graduation year, but we have done a 
lot of groundwork in building relationships. We also host an Annual Amaze 
Festival where we bring a whole lot of interesting internal Games people to 
Johannesburg.

One of our students has already had interest shown in a board game developed 
for the course called After Robot (this is from their analogue phase when they 
start with the fundamentals)

Kind regards

Angus

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader - Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand


On 20 January 2015 at 6:47:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane 
(raffsxsil...@googlemail.com) wrote:

As someone who has little experience and no preference I can say much in any 
authoritative fashion.
Two things I would consider though that have not been mentioned much:

Do you have programming in the curriculum, maybe even in other degrees that 
eventually connect with the one you teach in? If so consider the C++ C# 
difference G mentioned.

Do you plan to encourage and offer collateral support for your students that 
decide to go dip in the deep technical end? Same consideration, make sure they 
can be supported by someone with experience.

Do you have particularly successful or fruitful work placement ties with 
companies or other unis? If you do what do they prefer? Which of the two is 
more marketable for the average profile you have created insofar for your 
students, or the profile you aim to create.

Ultimately I don't believe the valuable lessons in game design will be so 
tightly coupled with the engine you choose that you will do damage either way, 
much like if you are an extremely good creative or TD you can shine even 
through an app you're not hugely familiar with and pick it up as you go. All 
that said, if in doubt to the point of a coin toss decision then look at 
post-degree consequences of the choice, whichever gives the more immediate edge 
in employment is likely preferable.

Winning the junior employment race for a lot of people that aren't head and 
shoulders above the average is made of 1% edges.

 

This communication is 
intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original 
message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the 
permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to 
enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus 
advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the 
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which 
are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the 
Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and 
outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in 
writing to the contrary. 

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Francisco Criado]

Hi guys,

in my short experience with both, my opinion is Unreal Engine is a lot
friendly on the artist side than Unity.
For programming it was easier for me using blueprints than scripting, but
maybe cause i´m not a programmer.
On the materials and lighting, also found it very friendly with nodal
layout. I know that in Unity you can also use tools from the asset store,
but if i had to make a comparison it would be like saying "you can do that
in max with plugins too" compared to softimage!
Matinee is wonderfull for animatics and cinematics...
The only thing where UE is weak or possibly my ingorance appears, is
connecting the engine to hardware, like for example, leap motion, arduino
or kinect. And that is where unity is super friendly.

F.


2015-01-20 15:10 GMT-03:00 a...@andynicholas.com :

>  > I'm biting maya tongue right now to stay on topic and not to go off on a
>  > certain package.
>
>
> You just cracked me up with that one :)
>
>
>
>
> On 20 January 2015 at 15:55 Eric Turman  wrote:
>
>
> > @ Siew Yi Lang I felt compelled to respond to your review of Unity
> because of
> > certain inaccuracies and/or misconceptions. I hope that you do not feel
> > slighted as this is not a personal attack at all.
> >
> >  Although my day job now deals with commercial/film/vfx, I have worked on
> > several AAA game titles in the past and I am currently wrapping up an
> indie
> > game with two other people that we made in Unity. I'll admit that I
> agree with
> > some of what you have stated but not nearly as strongly or vehemently.
> One
> > point I will agree in is that while they have added a bunch of new
> features
> > they do need to fix what is broken. That can be said of many software
> > packages...I'm biting maya tongue right now to stay on topic and not to
> go off
> > on a certain package.
> >
> >  Shaders: I agree that ShaderForge makes shader creation much easier and
> it is
> > worth the added expense. Shaderforge
> >  has enabled us
> to
> > develop some very specialized and unusual non-photo real shaders that
> could
> > have been a stretch for us otherwise. That being said, we are friends
> with a
> > programmer who codes his own non-node based shaders for multiple
> platforms in
> > Unity without a problem and he has helped us with such shaders for other
> > projects.
> >
> >  Mechanim: I'm going to mostly disagree with you here and my experience
> is
> > nearly opposite of yours with Mechanim. We definitely did not use
> legacy. We
> > were able to, without scripting, make our own avatar. You do not need to
> use
> > the built in avater, just don't use it. Additionally, Unity did not
> retarget
> > it to two bones for us. Unity Mechanim dealt just fine with our custom
> > skeleton setup. Animation and hierarchical blending also worked just
> fine OOTB
> > for us with our custom shadow rig skeleton. After glancing at how Unity
> wanted
> > the shadow rig to be organized, our animations came in without a hitch
> from
> > Softimage. I did not have to do anything with ROMs. I mean no
> disrespect, and
> > no hard feelings are intended, it's just that I know firsthand that it
> works.
> >
> >  Shuriken: I am not going to argue with you on this one. Unity's built in
> > particle system is, in a word, weak. Fortunately, an asset called
> Particle
> > Playground 
> comes to
> > the rescue and, as I understand it, its code is exposed if you need to
> tweak
> > it.
> >
> >  Pipeline: I'll agree that the hundreds and thousands of pieces of
> metadata
> > was a bit cumbersome on the check in/checkout. But this is a technical
> > industry, the artists are working with technology and it is not
> unreasonable
> > to expect them to have a modicrum of technical knowhow. The artists at
> Element
> > X were sat down and launched with instructions on the use of SVN. After
> a few
> > days, they were shown that how they had misunderstood/cut corners were
> doing
> > things with SVN were causing problems and shown the procedure once more.
> After
> > that, we didn't have any issues. Its a partial matter of training the
> artists
> > what to do and the consequences of not following procedure, and it is
> another
> > matter of making certain that they are not going to be lazy about
> following
> > those directions. For teams of more than a few people, custom created
> pipeline
> > tools can help the artist make certain that they are not making mistakes.
> >
> >  On a side note: I think that Never Alone 
> is a
> > beautiful game on many levels. Congratulations Siew Yi Lang! I'm very
> much
> > looking forward to playing it on Steam
> >  once I clear off my plate a
> bit.
> > Any large production is quite an ordeal, but I hope that you can feel
> proud to
> > have worked on it.
> >
> >  Cheers,
> >  -=Eric
> >  --
> >
> >
> >  -=T=-
> >
> >

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[a...@andynicholas.com]

 > I'm biting maya tongue right now to stay on topic and not to go off on a
 > certain package.


You just cracked me up with that one :)




On 20 January 2015 at 15:55 Eric Turman  wrote:


> @ Siew Yi Lang I felt compelled to respond to your review of Unity because of
> certain inaccuracies and/or misconceptions. I hope that you do not feel
> slighted as this is not a personal attack at all.
> 
>  Although my day job now deals with commercial/film/vfx, I have worked on
> several AAA game titles in the past and I am currently wrapping up an indie
> game with two other people that we made in Unity. I'll admit that I agree with
> some of what you have stated but not nearly as strongly or vehemently. One
> point I will agree in is that while they have added a bunch of new features
> they do need to fix what is broken. That can be said of many software
> packages...I'm biting maya tongue right now to stay on topic and not to go off
> on a certain package.
> 
>  Shaders: I agree that ShaderForge makes shader creation much easier and it is
> worth the added expense. Shaderforge
>  has enabled us to
> develop some very specialized and unusual non-photo real shaders that could
> have been a stretch for us otherwise. That being said, we are friends with a
> programmer who codes his own non-node based shaders for multiple platforms in
> Unity without a problem and he has helped us with such shaders for other
> projects.
> 
>  Mechanim: I'm going to mostly disagree with you here and my experience is
> nearly opposite of yours with Mechanim. We definitely did not use legacy. We
> were able to, without scripting, make our own avatar. You do not need to use
> the built in avater, just don't use it. Additionally, Unity did not retarget
> it to two bones for us. Unity Mechanim dealt just fine with our custom
> skeleton setup. Animation and hierarchical blending also worked just fine OOTB
> for us with our custom shadow rig skeleton. After glancing at how Unity wanted
> the shadow rig to be organized, our animations came in without a hitch from
> Softimage. I did not have to do anything with ROMs. I mean no disrespect, and
> no hard feelings are intended, it's just that I know firsthand that it works.
> 
>  Shuriken: I am not going to argue with you on this one. Unity's built in
> particle system is, in a word, weak. Fortunately, an asset called Particle
> Playground  comes to
> the rescue and, as I understand it, its code is exposed if you need to tweak
> it.
> 
>  Pipeline: I'll agree that the hundreds and thousands of pieces of metadata
> was a bit cumbersome on the check in/checkout. But this is a technical
> industry, the artists are working with technology and it is not unreasonable
> to expect them to have a modicrum of technical knowhow. The artists at Element
> X were sat down and launched with instructions on the use of SVN. After a few
> days, they were shown that how they had misunderstood/cut corners were doing
> things with SVN were causing problems and shown the procedure once more. After
> that, we didn't have any issues. Its a partial matter of training the artists
> what to do and the consequences of not following procedure, and it is another
> matter of making certain that they are not going to be lazy about following
> those directions. For teams of more than a few people, custom created pipeline
> tools can help the artist make certain that they are not making mistakes.
> 
>  On a side note: I think that Never Alone  is a
> beautiful game on many levels. Congratulations Siew Yi Lang! I'm very much
> looking forward to playing it on Steam
>  once I clear off my plate a bit.
> Any large production is quite an ordeal, but I hope that you can feel proud to
> have worked on it.
> 
>  Cheers,
>  -=Eric
>  --
> 
> 
>  -=T=-
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Siew Yi Liang]

Hi Eric:

No worries, I love being able to be corrected and learn more if I am 
mistaken over stuff! Although I hope I'm not going too much off on a 
tangent considering this is the XSI mailing list :P


- Shaderforge (or strumpy, whatever you prefer) is more or less 
essential imho , especially for prototyping stuff to see if it's even 
the right path to take (plus it's a nice way to have easy access to cool 
stuff like vertex deformation for cool effects without even stepping 
into Mono.) The problem is that it's not nearly as extensive as it needs 
to be (really, still no GPU noise function?!), and most of the time you 
also run into roadblocks that require you to go and make your own 
shaders anyway...and then you're left with trying to figure out two 
seperate shader systems. The bigger point is...why isn't this something 
that Unity devs focus on instead of just bringing in a 'new' PBR 
all-in-one shader?


- We did not use the Avatar for certain obvious characters that would in 
no way fit a Biped even remotely (the fox, for example, is treated as a 
Generic Avatar.) The nice thing is that your animation should come in 
1-to-1 as you animated it, since this bypasses the Avatar system (and 
thus the RoM stuff entirely), although there are sometimes odd things 
that happen with gimbal flipping in animations (but those can be solved 
easily). The bad thing, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that you 
lose all IK features. You also lose the ability to retarget animations 
from character to character. Which, for the fox, we didn't mind so much, 
since we didn't have any other characters that would share his 
animations. As for IK on the fox...that's why we made his paws so tiny :)


As for 2 spine bones and the devs' reasoning behind it (it's not even 
documented X_X):

http://blogs.unity3d.com/2014/05/26/mecanim-humanoids/

- Particle Playground is nice. However in testing it severely degraded 
performance and we decided not to investigate further into optimizing 
our engine for it. I did use it for some of my own personal freelance fx 
work and it was alright; like I mentioned, I ended up more scripting 
effect behaviours that I specifically wanted, and combined them with 
Shaderforge shaders on meshes to be able to control more effectively the 
final look without trying to figure out "why isn't this working?"


I think we just have to agree to disagree on the part of how Unity 
handles metadata for files though :P To me, it's absolutely mad how the 
devs are fine with the way the GUID/UUID system works, which to me 
defeats the whole purpose of them in the first place (and was an endless 
source of frustration for us since there's really no way around it, 
since we cannot predict how exactly Unity would generate the new GUIDs, 
and under what circumstances.) Since it applies to everything, from 
shaders to levels to models...it's just a terrible unnecessary roadblock 
to collaboration owing to the old implementation of the unity asset 
server, and should be given a serious rethink.


Anyway, that's as far as I'll go on the subject of Unity; I was glad for 
the experience tbh. (It makes me much more thankful other engines exist) 
I'd love to discuss more about it!... but we should probably have that 
conversation off the list. :X


(p.s. Thanks! Hope you enjoy the game when you get to playing it!)

On 1/20/2015 10:55 AM, Eric Turman wrote:

@ Siew Yi Lang
I felt compelled to respond to your review of Unity because of certain 
inaccuracies and/or misconceptions. I hope that you do not feel 
slighted as this is not a personal attack at all.


Although my day job now deals with commercial/film/vfx, I have worked 
on several AAA game titles in the past and I am currently wrapping up 
an indie game with two other people that we made in Unity. I'll admit 
that I agree with some of what you have stated but not nearly as 
strongly or vehemently. One point I will agree in is that while they 
have added a bunch of new features they do need to fix what is broken. 
That can be said of many software packages...I'm biting maya tongue 
right now to stay on topic and not to go off on a certain package.


*Shaders:* I agree that ShaderForge makes shader creation much easier 
and it is worth the added expense. Shaderforge 
 has enabled 
us to develop some very specialized and unusual non-photo real shaders 
that could have been a stretch for us otherwise. That being said, we 
are friends with a programmer who codes his own non-node based shaders 
for multiple platforms in Unity without a problem and he has helped us 
with such shaders for other projects.


*Mechanim: *I'm going to mostly disagree with you here and my 
experience is nearly opposite of yours with Mechanim. We definitely 
did not use legacy. We were able to, without scripting, make our own 
avatar. You do not need to use the built in avater, just don't use it. 
Additionally, Unity did not retarg

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Oh FFS autcorrect
I CAN'T say much, not "can say much", though that was deliciously ironic of
the autocorrection given this is the intertubes :p

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> As someone who has little experience and no preference I can say much in
> any authoritative fashion.
> Two things I would consider though that have not been mentioned much:
>
> Do you have programming in the curriculum, maybe even in other degrees
> that eventually connect with the one you teach in? If so consider the C++
> C# difference G mentioned.
>
> Do you plan to encourage and offer collateral support for your students
> that decide to go dip in the deep technical end? Same consideration, make
> sure they can be supported by someone with experience.
>
> Do you have particularly successful or fruitful work placement ties with
> companies or other unis? If you do what do they prefer? Which of the two is
> more marketable for the average profile you have created insofar for your
> students, or the profile you aim to create.
>
> Ultimately I don't believe the valuable lessons in game design will be so
> tightly coupled with the engine you choose that you will do damage either
> way, much like if you are an extremely good creative or TD you can shine
> even through an app you're not hugely familiar with and pick it up as you
> go. All that said, if in doubt to the point of a coin toss decision then
> look at post-degree consequences of the choice, whichever gives the more
> immediate edge in employment is likely preferable.
>
> Winning the junior employment race for a lot of people that aren't head
> and shoulders above the average is made of 1% edges.
>



-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Raffaele Fragapane]

As someone who has little experience and no preference I can say much in
any authoritative fashion.
Two things I would consider though that have not been mentioned much:

Do you have programming in the curriculum, maybe even in other degrees that
eventually connect with the one you teach in? If so consider the C++ C#
difference G mentioned.

Do you plan to encourage and offer collateral support for your students
that decide to go dip in the deep technical end? Same consideration, make
sure they can be supported by someone with experience.

Do you have particularly successful or fruitful work placement ties with
companies or other unis? If you do what do they prefer? Which of the two is
more marketable for the average profile you have created insofar for your
students, or the profile you aim to create.

Ultimately I don't believe the valuable lessons in game design will be so
tightly coupled with the engine you choose that you will do damage either
way, much like if you are an extremely good creative or TD you can shine
even through an app you're not hugely familiar with and pick it up as you
go. All that said, if in doubt to the point of a coin toss decision then
look at post-degree consequences of the choice, whichever gives the more
immediate edge in employment is likely preferable.

Winning the junior employment race for a lot of people that aren't head and
shoulders above the average is made of 1% edges.

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Eric Turman]

@ Siew Yi Lang
I felt compelled to respond to your review of Unity because of certain
inaccuracies and/or misconceptions. I hope that you do not feel slighted as
this is not a personal attack at all.

Although my day job now deals with commercial/film/vfx, I have worked on
several AAA game titles in the past and I am currently wrapping up an indie
game with two other people that we made in Unity. I'll admit that I agree
with some of what you have stated but not nearly as strongly or vehemently.
One point I will agree in is that while they have added a bunch of new
features they do need to fix what is broken. That can be said of many
software packages...I'm biting maya tongue right now to stay on topic and
not to go off on a certain package.

*Shaders:* I agree that ShaderForge makes shader creation much easier and
it is worth the added expense. Shaderforge
 has enabled us to
develop some very specialized and unusual non-photo real shaders that could
have been a stretch for us otherwise. That being said, we are friends with
a programmer who codes his own non-node based shaders for multiple
platforms in Unity without a problem and he has helped us with such shaders
for other projects.

*Mechanim: *I'm going to mostly disagree with you here and my experience is
nearly opposite of yours with Mechanim. We definitely did not use legacy.
We were able to, without scripting, make our own avatar. You do not need to
use the built in avater, just don't use it. Additionally, Unity did not
retarget it to two bones for us. Unity Mechanim dealt just fine with our
custom skeleton setup. Animation and hierarchical blending also worked just
fine OOTB for us with our custom shadow rig skeleton. After glancing at how
Unity wanted the shadow rig to be organized, our animations came in without
a hitch from Softimage. I did not have to do anything with ROMs. I mean no
disrespect, and no hard feelings are intended, it's just that I know
firsthand that it works.

*Shuriken: *I am not going to argue with you on this one. Unity's built in
particle system is, in a word, weak. Fortunately, an asset called Particle
Playground  comes
to the rescue and, as I understand it, its code is exposed if you need to
tweak it.

*Pipeline:* I'll agree that the hundreds and thousands of pieces of
metadata was a bit cumbersome on the check in/checkout. But this is a
technical industry, the artists are working with technology and it is not
unreasonable to expect them to have a modicrum of technical knowhow. The
artists at Element X were sat down and launched with instructions on the
use of SVN. After a few days, they were shown that how they had
misunderstood/cut corners were doing things with SVN were causing problems
and shown the procedure once more. After that, we didn't have any issues.
Its a partial matter of training the artists what to do and the
consequences of not following procedure, and it is another matter of making
certain that they are not going to be lazy about following those
directions. For teams of more than a few people, custom created pipeline
tools can help the artist make certain that they are not making mistakes.

*On a side note:* I think that Never Alone  is
a beautiful game on many levels. *Congratulations Siew Yi Lang!* I'm very
much looking forward to playing it on Steam
 once I clear off my plate a
bit. Any large production is quite an ordeal, but I hope that you can feel
proud to have worked on it.

Cheers,
-=Eric
-- 


-=T=-

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Angus Davidson]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the amazing viewpoints. off to go make some tough decisions.

Kind regards

Angus
--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader - Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand


On 20 January 2015 at 10:28:43 AM, Juhani Karlsson 
(juhani.karls...@talvi.com) wrote:

I`m always in awe that people who actually like ICE are not willing to take on 
scripting! I mean its so small step to take from there.
I do feel that Unity is more tested on the mobile front so if your aim is 
toward more advanced games maybe UE4 is better for you.
Anyway the students need to be able to learn new things after they graduate so 
I think that only strong foundations are needed!
Its not the software that makes the game. (unless its game of life)

- J

On 20 January 2015 at 10:14, Nicolas Esposito 
<3dv...@gmail.com> wrote:
@Eric Truman: I considered a different approach and did a bit of RnD in order 
to check which was the best solution, and in the end I did the switch to 
Unreal...

Character customization WIP

This is a tool I'm currently working on...it took me 2 days in total ( consider 
2-3 hours per day ) to figure out the logic behind the blend shape blending, 
visual update, lipsync retargeting and so on, which is something that in Unity 
I have to code, there is no script which currently do that, and of course I 
have to hire someone for this...

I already asked, more or less a year ago, about some custom scripts for an 
interactive architectural project I was working on, to be able to see in into 
the browser and be, well, interactive...only for the scripts ( 6 in total ) the 
average price I was asked was 800$, plus some plugins ( including Playmaker for 
simple node based logic stuff ), so in the end the loss on the project was way 
too much.

Luckily I waited and UE4 came out, and the time and effort to develp the 
project was well spent, not too complicated to setup and to test some of the 
stuff I requested a quotation in Unity most of the stuff was already there, and 
the node based editor was a life saver.

I perfectly know that with programming knowledge all those problems in Unity 
could be easily solved, but I still find the workflow very tedious in 
Unity...and I got easily bored with programming stuff, so in part its my fault, 
in part the ICE-like setup of blueprints made things easier for me.

Currently in UE4 there are still some dumb things which they're still 
broken/bugged, but at least I'm able to start and end a project without too 
many issues or desperately ask for help ;)

2015-01-20 4:29 GMT+01:00 Siew Yi Liang 
mailto:soni...@gmail.com>>:
Hi Angus:

Just came off a Unity project for my last job (http://neveralonegame.com/). My 
advice is exactly the opposite; if you value your time as an artist, don't even 
bother with Unity. It's nowhere near the level it needs to be to even think 
about competing with UE4/CE3, let alone other game engines.

I normally don't like to write negative things, but because I feel so strongly 
against how Unity is designed (and how they responded to our support requests 
for stuff that was clearly broken), here's my breakdown of why I disliked 
working with it.

Shaders: Even U5's new PBR shaders are a nightmare to work with. No node-based 
shader editor (other than Shaderforge, thank god for that) makes it very 
difficult for non-technically inclined artists to work up cool shaders. And I 
was working with U4, which was terrible in itself in terms of OOTB offerings 
for lighting. And as for the "one-click multi-platform deployment" stuff, 
yea...the last 3 months of Never Alone were our main engineer and a few of us 
frantically trying to figure out why our shaders were all compiling pink on 
PS4/fine on PC/geometry not rendering on XB1/other mad bugs, and Unity pretty 
much refusing to help fix their own bugs. At least with UE4 we'd have been able 
to fix the problems, whether ours or the engine's.

Mechanim: The entire animation system is a nightmare to me. The retargeting 
system really pissed me off as an animator, and as a rigger, I wouldn't ever 
want to work with it again. Essentially whatever rig you provide Unity will 
always be re-targeted to a internal rig that is pre-defined and 
unchangeable...and it provides 2 spine bones for deformation, along with also 
requiring you to setup RoMs for every single joint...for every single character 
that you make. The only benefit to this? Animation re-targeting. Which no other 
sensible re-targeting system (afaik) does in this manner. The alternative? 
None, other than using the legacy animation system which is unsupported and 
does not have IK solvers. I should also point out that it was in response to 
Unity's nonsense with Mechanim that I ended up writing a custom viewer for Maya 
just so our animators (and I) could look at our own animations and critique 
them objectively without worrying about if U

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Juhani Karlsson]

I`m always in awe that people who actually like ICE are not willing to take
on scripting! I mean its so small step to take from there.
I do feel that Unity is more tested on the mobile front so if your aim is
toward more advanced games maybe UE4 is better for you.
Anyway the students need to be able to learn new things after they graduate
so I think that only strong foundations are needed!
Its not the software that makes the game. (unless its game of life)

- J

On 20 January 2015 at 10:14, Nicolas Esposito <3dv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> @Eric Truman: I considered a different approach and did a bit of RnD in
> order to check which was the best solution, and in the end I did the switch
> to Unreal...
>
> Character customization WIP 
>
> This is a tool I'm currently working on...it took me 2 days in total (
> consider 2-3 hours per day ) to figure out the logic behind the blend shape
> blending, visual update, lipsync retargeting and so on, which is something
> that in Unity I have to code, there is no script which currently do that,
> and of course I have to hire someone for this...
>
> I already asked, more or less a year ago, about some custom scripts for an
> interactive architectural project I was working on, to be able to see in
> into the browser and be, well, interactive...only for the scripts ( 6 in
> total ) the average price I was asked was 800$, plus some plugins (
> including Playmaker for simple node based logic stuff ), so in the end the
> loss on the project was way too much.
>
> Luckily I waited and UE4 came out, and the time and effort to develp the
> project was well spent, not too complicated to setup and to test some of
> the stuff I requested a quotation in Unity most of the stuff was already
> there, and the node based editor was a life saver.
>
> I perfectly know that with programming knowledge all those problems in
> Unity could be easily solved, but I still find the workflow very tedious in
> Unity...and I got easily bored with programming stuff, so in part its my
> fault, in part the ICE-like setup of blueprints made things easier for me.
>
> Currently in UE4 there are still some dumb things which they're still
> broken/bugged, but at least I'm able to start and end a project without too
> many issues or desperately ask for help ;)
>
> 2015-01-20 4:29 GMT+01:00 Siew Yi Liang :
>
>>  Hi Angus:
>>
>> Just came off a Unity project for my last job (http://neveralonegame.com/).
>> My advice is exactly the opposite; if you value your time as an artist,
>> don't even bother with Unity. It's nowhere near the level it needs to be to
>> even think about competing with UE4/CE3, let alone other game engines.
>>
>> I normally don't like to write negative things, but because I feel so
>> strongly against how Unity is designed (and how they responded to our
>> support requests for stuff that was clearly broken), here's my breakdown of
>> why I disliked working with it.
>>
>> *Shaders*: Even U5's new PBR shaders are a nightmare to work with. No
>> node-based shader editor (other than Shaderforge, thank god for that) makes
>> it very difficult for non-technically inclined artists to work up cool
>> shaders. And I was working with U4, which was terrible in itself in terms
>> of OOTB offerings for lighting. And as for the "one-click multi-platform
>> deployment" stuff, yea...the last 3 months of Never Alone were our main
>> engineer and a few of us frantically trying to figure out why our shaders
>> were all compiling pink on PS4/fine on PC/geometry not rendering on
>> XB1/other mad bugs, and Unity pretty much refusing to help fix their own
>> bugs. At least with UE4 we'd have been able to fix the problems, whether
>> ours or the engine's.
>>
>> *Mechanim*: The entire animation system is a nightmare to me. The
>> retargeting system really pissed me off as an animator, and as a rigger, I
>> wouldn't ever want to work with it again. Essentially whatever rig you
>> provide Unity will always be re-targeted to a internal rig that is
>> pre-defined and unchangeable...and it provides 2 spine bones for
>> deformation, along with also requiring you to setup RoMs for every single
>> joint...for every single character that you make. The only benefit to this?
>> Animation re-targeting. Which no other sensible re-targeting system (afaik)
>> does in this manner. The alternative? None, other than using the legacy
>> animation system which is unsupported and does not have IK solvers. I
>> should also point out that it was in response to Unity's nonsense with
>> Mechanim that I ended up writing a custom viewer for Maya just so our
>> animators (and I) could look at our own animations and critique them
>> objectively without worrying about if Unity was actually doing some weird
>> stuff with the Avatar system that was causing them to look different
>> in-engine.
>>
>> *Shuriken *(particle system): Let me put it this way, having worked with
>> UE4 and Unity (and a few other pa

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Nicolas Esposito]

@Eric Truman: I considered a different approach and did a bit of RnD in
order to check which was the best solution, and in the end I did the switch
to Unreal...

Character customization WIP 

This is a tool I'm currently working on...it took me 2 days in total (
consider 2-3 hours per day ) to figure out the logic behind the blend shape
blending, visual update, lipsync retargeting and so on, which is something
that in Unity I have to code, there is no script which currently do that,
and of course I have to hire someone for this...

I already asked, more or less a year ago, about some custom scripts for an
interactive architectural project I was working on, to be able to see in
into the browser and be, well, interactive...only for the scripts ( 6 in
total ) the average price I was asked was 800$, plus some plugins (
including Playmaker for simple node based logic stuff ), so in the end the
loss on the project was way too much.

Luckily I waited and UE4 came out, and the time and effort to develp the
project was well spent, not too complicated to setup and to test some of
the stuff I requested a quotation in Unity most of the stuff was already
there, and the node based editor was a life saver.

I perfectly know that with programming knowledge all those problems in
Unity could be easily solved, but I still find the workflow very tedious in
Unity...and I got easily bored with programming stuff, so in part its my
fault, in part the ICE-like setup of blueprints made things easier for me.

Currently in UE4 there are still some dumb things which they're still
broken/bugged, but at least I'm able to start and end a project without too
many issues or desperately ask for help ;)

2015-01-20 4:29 GMT+01:00 Siew Yi Liang :

>  Hi Angus:
>
> Just came off a Unity project for my last job (http://neveralonegame.com/).
> My advice is exactly the opposite; if you value your time as an artist,
> don't even bother with Unity. It's nowhere near the level it needs to be to
> even think about competing with UE4/CE3, let alone other game engines.
>
> I normally don't like to write negative things, but because I feel so
> strongly against how Unity is designed (and how they responded to our
> support requests for stuff that was clearly broken), here's my breakdown of
> why I disliked working with it.
>
> *Shaders*: Even U5's new PBR shaders are a nightmare to work with. No
> node-based shader editor (other than Shaderforge, thank god for that) makes
> it very difficult for non-technically inclined artists to work up cool
> shaders. And I was working with U4, which was terrible in itself in terms
> of OOTB offerings for lighting. And as for the "one-click multi-platform
> deployment" stuff, yea...the last 3 months of Never Alone were our main
> engineer and a few of us frantically trying to figure out why our shaders
> were all compiling pink on PS4/fine on PC/geometry not rendering on
> XB1/other mad bugs, and Unity pretty much refusing to help fix their own
> bugs. At least with UE4 we'd have been able to fix the problems, whether
> ours or the engine's.
>
> *Mechanim*: The entire animation system is a nightmare to me. The
> retargeting system really pissed me off as an animator, and as a rigger, I
> wouldn't ever want to work with it again. Essentially whatever rig you
> provide Unity will always be re-targeted to a internal rig that is
> pre-defined and unchangeable...and it provides 2 spine bones for
> deformation, along with also requiring you to setup RoMs for every single
> joint...for every single character that you make. The only benefit to this?
> Animation re-targeting. Which no other sensible re-targeting system (afaik)
> does in this manner. The alternative? None, other than using the legacy
> animation system which is unsupported and does not have IK solvers. I
> should also point out that it was in response to Unity's nonsense with
> Mechanim that I ended up writing a custom viewer for Maya just so our
> animators (and I) could look at our own animations and critique them
> objectively without worrying about if Unity was actually doing some weird
> stuff with the Avatar system that was causing them to look different
> in-engine.
>
> *Shuriken *(particle system): Let me put it this way, having worked with
> UE4 and Unity (and a few other particle systems besides), there's no
> contest. Shuriken is in serious need of an overhaul; it's way too basic and
> buggy (esp. with animated textures and mesh particles), and 99% of the time
> effects I want I end up using a combination of scripting/shaderforge to get
> what I want, rather than struggling with the limitations of Shuriken.
>
> *Pipeline*: Unity's YML files (way it stores metadata) is an absolute
> nightmare. Apart from the annoying way it generates metadata files (and
> regenerates GUIDs for every asset comes in) the way it works (by randomly
> writing metadata everywhere within the same YML file) pretty much ensures
> t

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Siew Yi Liang]

Hi Angus:

Just came off a Unity project for my last job 
(http://neveralonegame.com/). My advice is exactly the opposite; if you 
value your time as an artist, don't even bother with Unity. It's nowhere 
near the level it needs to be to even think about competing with 
UE4/CE3, let alone other game engines.


I normally don't like to write negative things, but because I feel so 
strongly against how Unity is designed (and how they responded to our 
support requests for stuff that was clearly broken), here's my breakdown 
of why I disliked working with it.


*Shaders*: Even U5's new PBR shaders are a nightmare to work with. No 
node-based shader editor (other than Shaderforge, thank god for that) 
makes it very difficult for non-technically inclined artists to work up 
cool shaders. And I was working with U4, which was terrible in itself in 
terms of OOTB offerings for lighting. And as for the "one-click 
multi-platform deployment" stuff, yea...the last 3 months of Never Alone 
were our main engineer and a few of us frantically trying to figure out 
why our shaders were all compiling pink on PS4/fine on PC/geometry not 
rendering on XB1/other mad bugs, and Unity pretty much refusing to help 
fix their own bugs. At least with UE4 we'd have been able to fix the 
problems, whether ours or the engine's.


*Mechanim*: The entire animation system is a nightmare to me. The 
retargeting system really pissed me off as an animator, and as a rigger, 
I wouldn't ever want to work with it again. Essentially whatever rig you 
provide Unity will always be re-targeted to a internal rig that is 
pre-defined and unchangeable...and it provides 2 spine bones for 
deformation, along with also requiring you to setup RoMs for every 
single joint...for every single character that you make. The only 
benefit to this? Animation re-targeting. Which no other sensible 
re-targeting system (afaik) does in this manner. The alternative? None, 
other than using the legacy animation system which is unsupported and 
does not have IK solvers. I should also point out that it was in 
response to Unity's nonsense with Mechanim that I ended up writing a 
custom viewer for Maya just so our animators (and I) could look at our 
own animations and critique them objectively without worrying about if 
Unity was actually doing some weird stuff with the Avatar system that 
was causing them to look different in-engine.


*Shuriken *(particle system): Let me put it this way, having worked with 
UE4 and Unity (and a few other particle systems besides), there's no 
contest. Shuriken is in serious need of an overhaul; it's way too basic 
and buggy (esp. with animated textures and mesh particles), and 99% of 
the time effects I want I end up using a combination of 
scripting/shaderforge to get what I want, rather than struggling with 
the limitations of Shuriken.


*Pipeline*: Unity's YML files (way it stores metadata) is an absolute 
nightmare. Apart from the annoying way it generates metadata files (and 
regenerates GUIDs for every asset comes in) the way it works (by 
randomly writing metadata everywhere within the same YML file) pretty 
much ensures that if you have more than 2 people working on the same 
level at the same time, you're going to end up with merge conflicts all 
the time unless you have very, VERY well-trained artists/designers in 
terms of SVN lock/whatever VCS you choose to work with. We ended up with 
a gDoc that had people manually update what section of which level they 
were working on based on nothing more than an honour system, because 
people didn't know how to use SVN lock, and you can imagine how that 
went :)


As for animators, because blend state trees also use the same YML file 
storage format (and the same dumb ways of using GUID/UUIDs to refer to 
animation clips instead of filenames) also ensures that only ONE person 
can work on ONE file at a time, and must ensure that their file is 
checked in along with the metadata file that accompanies it, or Unity 
will start regenerating it on everyone's machines automatically, and 
then when they check those files in, enjoy resolving the resulting mess 
of conflicts!


I'm not here to plug UE4 really (I personally am a huge fan of CE3 cause 
I'm a graphics whore :P), but I will say that if you think it's easier 
to 'learn' Unity compared to UE4...perhaps the UI? But I would suggest 
that running into technical roadblocks that actively inhibit producing 
quality content is far more damaging than getting over a higher learning 
curve.


Hope that helps, (and it doesn't sound like I'm bashing Unity too much)! :P

Yours sincerely,
Siew Yi Liang

On 1/19/2015 7:58 PM, Eric Turman wrote:

@Nicolas Esposito
"In the end you could end up spending A LOT of money just to have 
some basica stuff which you could code ( if you have the knowledge... )
For me Unity is a good engine for a team project, not for a personal 
one."


I think that you might benefit from considering thinking from a 

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Eric Turman]

@Nicolas Esposito
"In the end you could end up spending A LOT of money just to have some
basica stuff which you could code ( if you have the knowledge... )
For me Unity is a good engine for a team project, not for a personal one."

I think that you might benefit from considering thinking from a different
point of view:
Purchasing the right asset from the asset store can save a lot more money
in the long run when you stop to consider how much time it would take you
to create that from scratch (even if you are a competent coder.) When
Considering assets from the asset store, the real questions are:
* Could I script/learn-to-script this in less time than I would have to pay
myself at $n/hour
* Does the asset give enough capability and flexibility out of the box,
and, if possible, what could it take to extend its capabilities
* Is this something that I would rather invest in my time to become
proficient at

Unity allows an individual or very small team to accomplish a wide variety
of projects on a wide variety of platforms that could otherwise be out of
their reach.

There are even node based setups in the asset store for programming.

As for examples in Unity, there are many as well.

Cheers,
-=Eric

-- 




-=T=-

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Nicolas Esposito]

I've worked with both of them in the past years, but I did the switch to
UE4 and before using UDK ( Unreal Development Kit ) for a couple of reason.

Consider that I'm talking from a 3D artist point of view, who as zero
knowledge about scripting, and this is one of the main reason why I find
myself at home with UE4, because the blueprint system has the same logic (
more or less ) as ICEit was really amazing to create something from
scratch in a couple of hours after installing it!

Unity has on its side its huge community, thousand of games for mobile and
pc, hundreds of usefull plugins and tons of tutorials from A to Z to
achieve basically what you want, from simple pong to more advanced
stuff...but for me the huge downside is that to achieve this you have to
learn scripting, which I find very very tedious, but thats my opinion...and
please do not forget that in order to achieve what you want usually you
rely on third party plugins...want a better GUI? buy the plugin...want FX
shaders? buy the plugin...want AI for your enemies? buy the plugin, and so
on...in the end you could end up spending A LOT of money just to have some
basica stuff which you could code ( if you have the knowledge... )
For me Unity is a good engine for a team project, not for a personal one.

UE4 documentation at the moment sucks, they keep addin features and many
people complain that they're going way too fast, but damn they're making
this engine very fun to work with.
Want photorealistic architectural visualization? tons of examples
Want CG level graphics for your cutscene and in game? almost there since
the shaders are really really well developed.
Want to code your own game using a visual node based system? blueprint is
for you ( or code your own stuff using C++ )

Honestly I will go towards UE4, because of the license for schools, because
of the blueprint system, because of the graphic capabilities, mobile
export, and so on...
You have a rigging toolkit called ART which comes free with the
engine...its similar to Species, but a bit expanded and it will go towards
non human character also, but you can use also Softimage for rigging and
import your rigged character ( I did a tutorial on Species into UE4 ) so
its quite open in terms of what you need to do...

Cheers

2015-01-19 23:08 GMT+01:00 Graham Bell :

> Thing is, there really isn’t much between Unreal and Unity now.
> Not so long ago, many would go Unreal for high end PC/Console, and Unity
> for everything else, especially iOS and Android. But now, they’re both
> cross platform on just about anything.
> I know some people, who have favoured Unreal because they like that it’s
> C++, and Unity leans a lot more towards C#, but others aren’t bothered.
>
> Both have huge communities, Unity has done a great job in getting to
> smaller and indie devs, and Unreal has had UDK and the whole Unreal
> Tournament thing for years.
> I see both engines being used a lot, though recently I have seen a lot
> more people adopting or even moving to UE4. I think the new pricing and
> license model from Unreal has really changed people’s minds and drawn them
> towards Unreal. And their new education policy has just made it so easy for
> people to adopt it, from Uni’s all the way down to primary schools.
>
> Could you offer both, and let students go with what they prefer?
>
> G
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal Infante
> Sent: 19 January 2015 21:11
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity
>
> Unity is probably easier to teach and learn right?
>
> Had a quick look at Unreal and it does seems like a more technical
> package..
>
> On 19 January 2015 at 21:07, Angus Davidson  <mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:
> Thats a very valid point. Its the major point behind us going Maya in our
> 3d animation courses ;(
>
> Kind regards
>
> Angus
>
>
> --
> Angus Davidson
> 074 580 3744
>
>
> On 19 January 2015 at 10:38:41 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez (
> jordiba...@gmail.com<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>) wrote:
> The thing is that Unity produces content for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows,
> Web… and you can manage the output optimisation as you go along and have
> one single development in C# but then produce the content for each
> device/platform, this is the reason is getting so much traction, its
> simpler and cost effective so they will get a job easier I would imagine.
>
> I would suggest you ask to the industry in your area and see.
>
> cheers
> jb
>
> On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:28, Angus Davidson  <mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:
>
> Hi Jordi
>
> Every little bit helps ;)
>
> We are currently only looking at PC/Mac  so being able to 

RE: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Graham Bell]

Thing is, there really isn’t much between Unreal and Unity now.
Not so long ago, many would go Unreal for high end PC/Console, and Unity for 
everything else, especially iOS and Android. But now, they’re both cross 
platform on just about anything.
I know some people, who have favoured Unreal because they like that it’s C++, 
and Unity leans a lot more towards C#, but others aren’t bothered.

Both have huge communities, Unity has done a great job in getting to smaller 
and indie devs, and Unreal has had UDK and the whole Unreal Tournament thing 
for years.
I see both engines being used a lot, though recently I have seen a lot more 
people adopting or even moving to UE4. I think the new pricing and license 
model from Unreal has really changed people’s minds and drawn them towards 
Unreal. And their new education policy has just made it so easy for people to 
adopt it, from Uni’s all the way down to primary schools.

Could you offer both, and let students go with what they prefer?

G

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal Infante
Sent: 19 January 2015 21:11
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

Unity is probably easier to teach and learn right?

Had a quick look at Unreal and it does seems like a more technical package..

On 19 January 2015 at 21:07, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:
Thats a very valid point. Its the major point behind us going Maya in our 3d 
animation courses ;(

Kind regards

Angus


--
Angus Davidson
074 580 3744


On 19 January 2015 at 10:38:41 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez 
(jordiba...@gmail.com<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>) wrote:
The thing is that Unity produces content for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows, Web… 
and you can manage the output optimisation as you go along and have one single 
development in C# but then produce the content for each device/platform, this 
is the reason is getting so much traction, its simpler and cost effective so 
they will get a job easier I would imagine.

I would suggest you ask to the industry in your area and see.

cheers
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:28, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi Jordi

Every little bit helps ;)

We are currently only looking at PC/Mac  so being able to compile for all 
devices / platforms is not a requirement.

Unity does seem to have far more content which is definitely useful when you 
need to point the student towards additional tutorials.

The games they make are fairly small. as the focus is more on the design of the 
game itself (they do of course go hand in hand to a large extent,) In first 
year they don’t use a computer at all, focusing purely on analogue games to 
allow them to get to grips with gameplay design and theory.


Kind regards

Angus

--
Angus Davidson
074 580 3744



On 19 January 2015 at 10:07:43 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez 
(jordiba...@gmail.com<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>) wrote:
I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the huge 
user base and market place make it extremely attractive.

If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to get 
your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity is 
pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 which 
looks very very good indeed.

hope it helps
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi All

Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
folks have played around with Unity and Unreal

We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
year)

This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened

1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 licences 
for 60 students
2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
total of 90
3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this time 
its been cut 40%
4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.

So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(

Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently giving 
me sleepless nights .

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand.
074 580 3744

This communication is intended

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Cristobal Infante]

Unity is probably easier to teach and learn right?

Had a quick look at Unreal and it does seems like a more technical package..

On 19 January 2015 at 21:07, Angus Davidson 
wrote:

>  Thats a very valid point. Its the major point behind us going Maya in
> our 3d animation courses ;(
>
>  Kind regards
>
>  Angus
>
>
>  --
> Angus Davidson
>  074 580 3744
>
> On 19 January 2015 at 10:38:41 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez (
> jordiba...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>   The thing is that Unity produces content for Android, iOS, Mac,
> Windows, Web… and you can manage the output optimisation as you go along
> and have one single development in C# but then produce the content for each
> device/platform, this is the reason is getting so much traction, its
> simpler and cost effective so they will get a job easier I would imagine.
>
>  I would suggest you ask to the industry in your area and see.
>
>  cheers
> jb
>
>  On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:28, Angus Davidson 
> wrote:
>
>  Hi Jordi
>
>  Every little bit helps ;)
>
>  We are currently only looking at PC/Mac  so being able to compile for
> all devices / platforms is not a requirement.
>
>  Unity does seem to have far more content which is definitely useful when
> you need to point the student towards additional tutorials.
>
>  The games they make are fairly small. as the focus is more on the design
> of the game itself (they do of course go hand in hand to a large extent,)
> In first year they don’t use a computer at all, focusing purely on analogue
> games to allow them to get to grips with gameplay design and theory.
>
>
>  Kind regards
>
>  Angus
>
>  --
> Angus Davidson
>  074 580 3744
>
>  On 19 January 2015 at 10:07:43 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez (
> jordiba...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>  I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and
> the huge user base and market place make it extremely attractive.
>
>  If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim
> to get your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then
> Unity is pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming
> Unity5 which looks very very good indeed.
>
>  hope it helps
> jb
>
>   On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson 
> wrote:
>
>   Hi All
>
>  Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite
> a few folks have played around with Unity and Unreal
>
>  We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which
> means our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a
> situation where we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in
> Unity3d (for the past year)
>
>  This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out
> of it. However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have
> happened
>
>  1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30
> licences for 60 students
>  2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure
> for a total of 90
>  3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however
> this time its been cut 40%
>  4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
>  5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.
>
>  So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and
> move to Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching
> purposes. its worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that
> they will have access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved
> Softimage :(
>
>  Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently
> giving me sleepless nights .
>
>  --
> Angus Davidson
>  ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
> University of the Witwatersrand.
> 074 580 3744
>
>  This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University.
> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on
> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content
> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may
> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not
> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand,
> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are
> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the
> contrary.
>
>
>This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University.
> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on
> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that 

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Angus Davidson]

Thats a very valid point. Its the major point behind us going Maya in our 3d 
animation courses ;(

Kind regards

Angus


--
Angus Davidson
074 580 3744


On 19 January 2015 at 10:38:41 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez 
(jordiba...@gmail.com) wrote:

The thing is that Unity produces content for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows, Web… 
and you can manage the output optimisation as you go along and have one single 
development in C# but then produce the content for each device/platform, this 
is the reason is getting so much traction, its simpler and cost effective so 
they will get a job easier I would imagine.

I would suggest you ask to the industry in your area and see.

cheers
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:28, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi Jordi

Every little bit helps ;)

We are currently only looking at PC/Mac  so being able to compile for all 
devices / platforms is not a requirement.

Unity does seem to have far more content which is definitely useful when you 
need to point the student towards additional tutorials.

The games they make are fairly small. as the focus is more on the design of the 
game itself (they do of course go hand in hand to a large extent,) In first 
year they don’t use a computer at all, focusing purely on analogue games to 
allow them to get to grips with gameplay design and theory.


Kind regards

Angus

--
Angus Davidson
074 580 3744


On 19 January 2015 at 10:07:43 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez 
(jordiba...@gmail.com) wrote:

I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the huge 
user base and market place make it extremely attractive.

If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to get 
your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity is 
pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 which 
looks very very good indeed.

hope it helps
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi All

Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
folks have played around with Unity and Unreal

We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
year)

This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened

1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 licences 
for 60 students
2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
total of 90
3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this time 
its been cut 40%
4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.

So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(

Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently giving 
me sleepless nights .

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand.
074 580 3744


This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and 
destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University 
and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be 
legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and 
opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The 
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the 
University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University 
agrees in writing to the contrary.



This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and 
destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University 
and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be 
legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and 
opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The 
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the 
University an

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Jordi Bares Dominguez]

The thing is that Unity produces content for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows, Web… 
and you can manage the output optimisation as you go along and have one single 
development in C# but then produce the content for each device/platform, this 
is the reason is getting so much traction, its simpler and cost effective so 
they will get a job easier I would imagine.

I would suggest you ask to the industry in your area and see.

cheers
jb

> On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:28, Angus Davidson  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jordi
> 
> Every little bit helps ;)
> 
> We are currently only looking at PC/Mac  so being able to compile for all 
> devices / platforms is not a requirement.
> 
> Unity does seem to have far more content which is definitely useful when you 
> need to point the student towards additional tutorials. 
> 
> The games they make are fairly small. as the focus is more on the design of 
> the game itself (they do of course go hand in hand to a large extent,) In 
> first year they don’t use a computer at all, focusing purely on analogue 
> games to allow them to get to grips with gameplay design and theory.
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Angus
> 
> -- 
> Angus Davidson
> 074 580 3744
> 
> On 19 January 2015 at 10:07:43 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez 
> (jordiba...@gmail.com ) wrote:
> 
>> I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the 
>> huge user base and market place make it extremely attractive.
>> 
>> If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to 
>> get your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity 
>> is pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 
>> which looks very very good indeed.
>> 
>> hope it helps
>> jb
>> 
>>> On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All
>>> 
>>> Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a 
>>> few folks have played around with Unity and Unreal
>>> 
>>> We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which 
>>> means our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a 
>>> situation where we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in 
>>> Unity3d (for the past year)
>>> 
>>> This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of 
>>> it. However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have 
>>> happened
>>> 
>>> 1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 
>>> licences for 60 students
>>> 2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for 
>>> a total of 90
>>> 3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this 
>>> time its been cut 40%
>>> 4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
>>> 5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.
>>> 
>>> So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move 
>>> to Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. 
>>> its worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will 
>>> have access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage 
>>> :(
>>> 
>>> Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently 
>>> giving me sleepless nights .
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Angus Davidson
>>> ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
>>> University of the Witwatersrand.
>>> 074 580 3744
>>> 
>>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. 
>>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify us 
>>> immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or 
>>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. 
>>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on 
>>> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content 
>>> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may 
>>> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not 
>>> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, 
>>> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are 
>>> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the 
>>> contrary. 
>> 
> 
> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
> you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately 
> and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
> communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
> signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the 
> University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message 
> may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal 
> views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and 
> opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements 
> b

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Angus Davidson]

Hi Jordi

Every little bit helps ;)

We are currently only looking at PC/Mac  so being able to compile for all 
devices / platforms is not a requirement.

Unity does seem to have far more content which is definitely useful when you 
need to point the student towards additional tutorials.

The games they make are fairly small. as the focus is more on the design of the 
game itself (they do of course go hand in hand to a large extent,) In first 
year they don’t use a computer at all, focusing purely on analogue games to 
allow them to get to grips with gameplay design and theory.


Kind regards

Angus

--
Angus Davidson
074 580 3744


On 19 January 2015 at 10:07:43 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez 
(jordiba...@gmail.com) wrote:

I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the huge 
user base and market place make it extremely attractive.

If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to get 
your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity is 
pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 which 
looks very very good indeed.

hope it helps
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi All

Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
folks have played around with Unity and Unreal

We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
year)

This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened

1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 licences 
for 60 students
2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
total of 90
3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this time 
its been cut 40%
4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.

So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(

Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently giving 
me sleepless nights .

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand.
074 580 3744


This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and 
destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University 
and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be 
legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and 
opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The 
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the 
University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University 
agrees in writing to the contrary.



 

This communication is 
intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original 
message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the 
permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to 
enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus 
advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the 
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which 
are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the 
Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and 
outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in 
writing to the contrary. 

RE: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Angus Davidson]

Hi Marc-Andre

Already have and no luck ;( Unfortunately I don’t know anyone higher up then 
the regional edu rep though. So anyone having the Ceo’s  email I will gladly 
follow up.

On that I have already contacted the Nuke guys (given Blackmagic’s recent 
Fusion announcement)  to at least extend their free Nuke studio to academic 
institutions as well. Still waiting on that one too ;)


--
Angus Davidson
074 580 3744


On 19 January 2015 at 10:11:33 PM, Marc-Andre Carbonneau 
(marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com<mailto:marc-andre.carbonn...@ubisoft.com>) 
wrote:
I’d contact UNITY directly… see if they match the competition.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares 
Dominguez
Sent: January-19-15 3:07 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the huge 
user base and market place make it extremely attractive.

If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to get 
your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity is 
pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 which 
looks very very good indeed.

hope it helps
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi All

Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
folks have played around with Unity and Unreal

We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
year)

This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened

1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 licences 
for 60 students
2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
total of 90
3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this time 
its been cut 40%
4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.

So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(

Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently giving 
me sleepless nights .

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand.
074 580 3744

This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and 
destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University 
and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be 
legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and 
opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The 
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the 
University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University 
agrees in writing to the contrary.




 

This communication is 
intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original 
message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the 
permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to 
enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus 
advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the 
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which 
are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the 
Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and 
outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in 
writing to the contrary. 

RE: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Marc-Andre Carbonneau]

I’d contact UNITY directly… see if they match the competition.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares 
Dominguez
Sent: January-19-15 3:07 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the huge 
user base and market place make it extremely attractive.

If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to get 
your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity is 
pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 which 
looks very very good indeed.

hope it helps
jb

On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson 
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:

Hi All

Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
folks have played around with Unity and Unreal

We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
year)

This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened

1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 licences 
for 60 students
2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
total of 90
3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this time 
its been cut 40%
4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.

So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(

Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently giving 
me sleepless nights .

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand.
074 580 3744

This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and 
destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University 
and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be 
legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and 
opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The 
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the 
University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University 
agrees in writing to the contrary.

Re: Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Jordi Bares Dominguez]

I like Unreal but Unity strength on multiple platform compilation and the huge 
user base and market place make it extremely attractive.

If you aim for pure games may be Unreal is more appropiate, if you aim to get 
your students to do games and web, and digital content and… then Unity is 
pretty much  the standard nowadays, specially with the upcoming Unity5 which 
looks very very good indeed.

hope it helps
jb

> On 19 Jan 2015, at 22:03, Angus Davidson  wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
> folks have played around with Unity and Unreal
> 
> We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
> our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
> we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
> year)
> 
> This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
> However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened
> 
> 1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 
> licences for 60 students
> 2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
> total of 90
> 3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this 
> time its been cut 40%
> 4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
> 5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.
> 
> So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
> Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
> worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
> access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(
> 
> Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently 
> giving me sleepless nights .
> 
> -- 
> Angus Davidson
> ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
> University of the Witwatersrand.
> 074 580 3744
> 
> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If 
> you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately 
> and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this 
> communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
> signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the 
> University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message 
> may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal 
> views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and 
> opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements 
> between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless 
> the University agrees in writing to the contrary. 

Teaching Unreal vs Unity

[Angus Davidson]

Hi All

Mostly out to educators , but very all opinions welcome as I know quite a few 
folks have played around with Unity and Unreal

We have a new Games design degree. We are now in the Fourth year which means 
our first set of student are in their final year. We are in a situation where 
we have started our 2nd and 3rd game design students in Unity3d (for the past 
year)

This went fairly well for a first year and we got some decent work out of it. 
However since paying for our first 30 EDU licences a few things have happened

1) Unlike last year the timetables make it impossible to only need 30 licences 
for 60 students
2) We now have a fourth year adding another 30 licences to that figure for a 
total of 90
3) As per the usual at a University our budget has been cut , however this time 
its been cut 40%
4) Our lovely currency has gone to crap vs the dollar
5) Unreal released a free edu version of their engine.

So the burning question is do we suck up the one year with Unity and move to 
Unreal or is Unity the better one to stick with for teaching purposes. its 
worth noting we are also stuck with Maya as the 3d App that they will have 
access to, as we are no longer allowed to teach our beloved Softimage :(

Apologies for the wide scope of the question but budgeting is currently giving 
me sleepless nights .

--
Angus Davidson
ICT Project Leader- Digital Arts
University of the Witwatersrand.
074 580 3744


 

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