Re: Die casting
Salty, I think it would work. The only problem would be having the wax "back-up" past the plunger into the linkage. Have you seen the heated, air pressure operated wax 'shooters'? It looks like a crock pot with a sealed lid. There is a pipe that the wax comes out, and a fitting where the air goes in. I think the air pressure forces the hot wax out the pipe. I've thought about building one... Terry
Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
How does one bend Stainless (or any other type) tubing without crimping it? I would pour/draw some woods metal into the pipe before bending. The woods metal will help to keep the diameter, and melts around 300 deg F, so it will come out easily with a propane torch. I've seen woods metal available from Micro-mark. Standard employment disclaimers apply. Terry Griner Columbus Ohio USA
Re: paper wheels
GROSS, Dowler, GROS. Even Lunkenheimer turned up his nose at that!
RE: Ruby Mods
I don't yet have a superheater, but I have modified my original safety valve as follows. Find a small washer, or combination of washers, that total 1.0 mm in thickness. Use this washer(s) to shim the safety valve spring. In other words, put the washer(s) between the spring and the little "e" clip that holds the assembly together. This mod will raise the lift off pressure to 40psi. This is an extremely beneficial mod to do. Royce B. -Original Message- From: Ferdinand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 10:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Ruby Mods I thought I would throw a couple of questions out to the group . I am in the middle of converting my Ruby and at present its dismantled right down to the frames and drivers. 1- How much of an improvement does adding a superheater make ? ( is it worth adding at this point ) 2- An easy mod raising the operating psi to 40lbs - has this been a worthwhile change ? Are there any more mods to the performance of the Ruby? Thanks in advance Ferdinand "The light at the end of the tunnel is a fast approaching small scale live steamer"
Silver soldering - Digest #397
At 12:00 AM 3/15/01 -0800, you wrote: Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:13:20 -0600 From: Chris wolcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Soldering Question heat the work (Copper-Brass) until it glowed. Is this normal? I'm concerned that I'm going to melt something besides the solder doing this. Chris, Peter and Art have covered this nicely, although depending upon the flow temp of the silver solder you use you may expect to have to bring the material to dull red, but certainly not bright by any means. Usually the behavior of the flux is the key to when it's time to apply the solder and for the solder I use (Harris Safety-Silv 45) this is just as the flux turns watery clear and just as some color (red) begins to appear in subdued light. I will take this opportunity however to mention that brass is not a recommended material for use as a structural part of a boiler, including bushings. Also, if I try to solder something to a piece that already has something soldered to it, will I not loosen the bond there trying to add the new piece? Most silver solders take considerably more temperature to re-melt than to melt initially (due to some metalurgical mumbo-jumbo having to do with change of state and chemical bonding with the base metals). But if silver soldering is carried out in the normal way, and you've done your homework and it behaves the way it's supposed to, you can solder very near to an existing silver soldered joint and not have to be concerned about it coming apart. I would go into this further but I have an article which deals with this subject in depth appearing in the 3rd issue of Small Scale Steam Magazine so under the circumstances I shouldn't trot all that out here. Also, in some quarters my threaded-rod bush-straigtening technique, as described by Art, might be greeted with a chorus of sniffs and harrumphs of self-righteous purism, :-) but it should be stataed that this technique shall only be used to make that last weensy little adjustment to get those boilertop fittings in dead-on alignment (if dead-on alignment means anything). This practice would be akin to denting the sides of the boiler barrel to clear drivers; not the way you'd like to have it, but it works just the same. One of the things I like about small scale live steam is how flexible and forgiving our little systems are in most areas. But then I guess some folks, like those with chronic burner problems, might disagree. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville, Tn
Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
I used to be forman in a pipe fabrication shop, and this same method was used for bending pipe in the 2" to 6" diameter range. We used a vibratory system to pack the sand in the pipe before heating and bending on a hydralic bending machine. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER? Hi, possible #5: If the diameter is large enough, fill the tube with dry fine sand. Plug both ends so the sand does not run out. Works like magic. I have used this to evenly bend 1"x2"x1/8" wall aluminum tube into a U shape just wide enough to be a tunnel portal frame. Walt
Routing Mikado Copper Water Pipes
Hi, For those with an axle pump fitted on their Mikado... Has anyone routed the copper pipes under the tender so that they channel through the gap for the alcohol sump and terminate in the space occupied by the 17-3 drawbar pin and 17-2 spring? This would seem most practical for the water connection on the end plate on the engine's lefthand side. For now, I have tucked the excess vacuum hose in that space so that it lines straight up with the connection... Any other ideas? -- Regards, Joe Betsko Pennsylvania USA Bala Cynwyd Railway: http://jsb.pennsy.home.att.net Primer for Novice Live Steamers: http://www.gardensteamers.com/tips.html Share Live Steaming Tips: http://www.gardensteamers.com/exchange.html iMac - Hey, I dont do windows!
Re: wheels
Harry Wade wrote: snip I would propose that the keeper of the patterns make rubber or RTV silicon molds of the patterns, cast them in wax and make permanent metal patterns. The "pattern" I offered to donate is already cast in silicon bronze. royce w
Re: wheels
At 07:37 AM 3/15/01 -0800, you wrote: Harry Wade wrote: I would propose that the keeper of the patterns make rubber or RTV silicon molds of the patterns, cast them in wax and make permanent metal patterns. royce w Nope, I did not make that statement. A costly, labor intensive process like that is not an option for the Pattern Pool. For better or worse, the patterns are going to be whatever people send us. Cheers, Harry
Re: wheels
At 07:37 AM 3/15/01 -0800, you wrote: The "pattern" I offered to donate is already cast in silicon bronze. royce w Royce, I'll assume for the moment that this pattern was made from an original master. Did the development of the master take into consideration double shrinkage? Just curious. It doesn't matter, the pattern is what it is. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville, Tn
Re: wheels
Clark Lord wrote: Harry Wade wrote: I could not begin to guess the number of people that are into scratch building Are you (list member) scratch building now? Yes. 1:20.3 Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge #18 Are you contemplating starting? Every day I think about working on it. Have even tried to cut back on time spent on computer (email, etc) as it COULD be spent on making chips. Do you own (or have access to) a lathe, mill or both? Have a Maximat V10 with milling head (which I have never used) because I also have a Clausing 8520 6x24" knee mill which I am about finished putting a Star Techno DRO on. Can't wait to use it. Haven't mounted the readout yet, but it seems to work fine. I did some horse trading (buying and selling) of lathes before getting my Maximat. In the end, it cost me about $800. I first had a Southbend 9". Turned a taper so I sold it for a slight profit. Then got a Rivet 503 from a retired toolmaker for Revell, the plastic model co. Didn't have a lead screw, so I sold it for a $800 profit (it was a beautiful machine with original tooling marks on the ways ! ) and dumped the money into the Maximat which I got from a friend who had no clue what to do with it. And, of course, I use all this stuff in my millwork business, so they are "business" assets ; ). Only problem is that I have to go back to work to use them. This is not politically correct according to my wife daughters. So I don't get as much done on my project as I would if my shop was at home. : ( I suspect that my project will take the rest of my life to complete. But it's the process that's the joy. (Although I did contemplate asking Trent if he wanted to part with one of his three Philidelphias just so I could run something at the steamups I am fortunate enough to attend). Scratchbuilding ! Yeah . royce w
Re: Scratchbuilders survey (was wheels)
Actually, I meant Kevin (not Trent) as having the Philidelphias. Kevin Strong wrote: Well, I've got three Argyle "Philadelphia" kits sitting in the basement waiting to be built royce w
Re: Ruby Mods
I was hoping to be able to compare superheated/non-superheated Rubys at DH, but most there were unsuperheated, and seemed to run quite nicely. I do get a great deal of condensate out of the stack, but I don't know if superheating would have much effect on that. It's only slightly less messy than my Roundhouse locos, both of which are superheated. I've pretty much decided that it's not really worth the effort. Cleaning the loco isn't that difficult, after all. (The oil gives the boiler jacket a nice sheen, anyway.) I did "stretch the spring" on the safety valve, which improved performance. I thought about replacing it with a 40psi valve, but since I added Norm Saley's retaining nut to hold the dome down, I didn't want to replace the valve and have an extra part which would then not work with the new valve. The quick fix is just as effective, really. I also changed the jet to a #3. I really don't know if that made a noticable difference in performance. I don't have any trouble maintianing steam. Later, K
Re: Silver soldering - Digest #397
From Harry's posting, first time I've heard about Small Scale Steam Hobbyist magazine. Just looked up their spot on Vance Bass' site. Alas it's not cheap. To Canada $45 for four issues ($24 in the US). Which is C$ 70, plus tax and maybe mailing costs (?). So about C$20+ an issue. A bit too rich for me !! Peter Trounce. I would go into this further but I have an article which deals with this subject in depth appearing in the 3rd issue of Small Scale Steam Magazine so under the circumstances I shouldn't trot all that out here. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville, Tn
RE: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
Try the Dubro tubing benders 1/8 and 5/32 just bought one and it works far
better than the spring benders I was using before. Makes perfect bends with
very little effort. Getting the spring benders off the tubing has always
been a frustrating operation. They can be found in the Airplane section of
the hobby shop.
Sincerely
Steve Ciambrone
Sr. Test Engineer
L-3 Ocean Systems
-Original Message-
From: M. Paterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 8:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
Subject:Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
A tool I found very helpful in bending copper tubing
is a spring device available through most hardware
stores. The device is sized for the od of the tubing
you want to bend. In operation you feed the tube
through the spring and then bend the spring with
tubing captured inside around a form. This prevents
kinking.
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wheel patterns
Harry Wade wrote: Did the development of the master take into consideration double shrinkage? Harry, Well, it was supposed to have. But I relied on "industry estimates" of shrinkage of about 4%, which is not entirely accurate. I actually built in 2 - 4% plus 2 - 1% factors for the RTV/Alumilite shrinkage (for a total of 10.6% compounded). But what happened is that the diameter dimensions shrunk about 3% per bronze casting, but the thickness shrunk as much as 7%. So my driver came out too thin (not so much for the tire width, but for the lug thickness which determines where the rods are that have to line up with the cylinder centerlines). Which is why the pattern is "available". It would be fine for any model where cylinder spacing is not critical, or not yet determined. regards, royce w PS. I know you didn't suggest the metal patterns. My "snipping" was not done accurately.
Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
In a message dated 01-03-15 07:37:52 EST, you write: How does one bend Stainless (or any other type) tubing without crimping it? I purchased some 1/8 od stainless from a local supplier (Portland OR) that I bent,cold, around a 1/2" dowel pin using a bender that I fabricated. I made a coil of six loops this way. I also did the same thing with a 3/8" dowel pin. The tubing maintained its shape with just a little flattening on the outside. I don't know what alloy KS stainless is but it should be able to be bent if you are careful. Salty
RE: Silver soldering - Digest #397
At 08:57 AM 3/15/01 -0800, you wrote: What are the concerns with using brass in a boiler? Steve Ciambrone Steve, Over time (sometimes not a very long time) the zinc will leach out of brass leaving it pourous. The basic underlying concern is safety and the soundness of the pressure vessel. But since in our scales we are probably talking more in terms of maladies like leaks and weeps rather than a complete failure, the practical problem is one of ending up with a chronically weepy boiler that will require a bothersome surgery, possibly fatal surgery, to correct. It's a situation of accepting that if you use brass there is the likelyhood of a weepy boiler at some point down the road. Although bronze is preferred, brass is not a big concern in a component made to be renewed or replaced, such as fittings, since fittings are intended to be removed from a boiler from time to time and if a problem occurs the fitting can be replaced without having to subject the boiler vessel to a surgery. Cheers, Harry
Re: wheel patterns
At 09:51 AM 3/15/01 -0800, you wrote: So my driver came out too thin. Which is why the pattern is "available". Royce If one knows this going in then accomodations for the diffferences can be made. Then again the pattern could be built up with wax or other material as needed to bring it back to form. Cheers, Harry
Ruby SUPERHEATER?
At 02:42 PM 3/15/01 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 01-03-15 07:37:52 EST, you write: I purchased some 1/8 od stainless from a local supplier that I bent cold, Coming from the large scale end of the hobby, where the size of steam supply passages are a consideration (not a worry, just a consideration) the feeling is that the steam supply path should be kept as large and unobstructed as is reasonably possible. I'm still bothered (but not to the point of losing sleep) seeing the small steam supply lines we use, but 1/8" seems to handle the traffic. Last year, when breaking down a 0-time Pannier which had refused to run due to a steam passage blockage, I took the opportunity to drill additional steam passages in the block, essentially doubling the area, and to mill relief into the cylinders and heads to provide a completely unobstructed steam path. Except for blocking off the rear burner nothing was changed. Its first runs last fall at Larry Herget's were in a word, astounding, for a new loco, for their length and smoothness. I ain't sayin it was the erection crew, I ain't sayin it was the engineer, and I ain't sayin it was the alterations, but SOMETHING sure was different than usual, as can be attested by those who the runs. Realistically I doubt whether this alone would have resulted in such an improved performance on a first outing, at least without treating everything else all along the steam path, but I'm going to start paying more attention to steam passages and see what difference, if any, that will make in other engines. Cheers, Harry
Re: Ruby SUPERHEATER?
How do you define 'Unobstructed'? Is a fairly tight (1") radius bend in an 1/8" tube an obstruction, or are you primarily referring to 90 angles and restrictions in diameter? I would think a large line leading to a smallish cylinder (Such as a RUBY) would 'overload' it, making it nearly impossible to let the expansion of the steam be a factor in powering the engine. I don't know a formula for relating cylinder size to supply volume/second/psi. Is there one? Harry Wade wrote: At 02:42 PM 3/15/01 EST, you wrote: Coming from the large scale end of the hobby, where the size of steam supply passages are a consideration (not a worry, just a consideration) the feeling is that the steam supply path should be kept as large and unobstructed as is reasonably possible. I'm still bothered (but not to the point of losing sleep) seeing the small steam supply lines we use, but 1/8" seems to handle the traffic.
Re: Die casting
In a message dated 3/15/2001 11:35:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The catalog does not say at what pressure that they operate but I would imagine it would be rather low I use an airbrush compressor for mine. About 25# pressure. Bob
Re: Routing Mikado Copper Water Pipes
Joe, I crossed mine over in an X shape to make things easier to work with, and alignment was much better. Walt
Re: wheels
Doing the hobby at work did not pan out for me. Everytime I had something set up in the milling machine or one of the lathes, a paying job would come in and I'd have to take down my hobby setup and do work for money. As a result I now have an Enco 9x42 variable speed mill with DRO. The three phase electric is courtesy of one of those inexpensive converters. It has worked fine for close to 15 years. The lathe is a wonderful old Seneca Falls 9" x 48" with factory risers to make it a 12". Don't need a thread dial, it has a big old forward/reverse arm that is geared so you never loose you starting point. It is believed to be vintage 1907 and could use a little work on the bushings, but it meets my needs fine. I have a real "thing" for old iron. With the hobby shop in the garage, I get much more done now in the train world. Keep your steam up! Walt Lunk
Cu + Zn = Brass
For those of you that have not seen it happen, the dezincification of brass is very common and can be a real pain the posterior. Brass is basically a mixture of copper and zinc. We are all familiar with the color of copper, and zinc is grey/white. As you mix the two colors together you get the yellow typical of brasses. One way to tell if a brass bucket in the antique store is really old is to look for pink spots. Zinc is much more reactive (dissolves) than copper, so an old bucket is likely to have places where some of the zinc has been dissolved out. That leaves a pink or copper colored spot there. That copper spot may have little tunnels thru the copper matrix that will cause a vessel to leak or weep. CAUTION - some of the less honest people in the antique business will import cheap new brass buckets from somewhere and use acids, etc to dissolve out some of the zinc to make the bucket look ancient and thus worth much more money in the shyster antique shops. Keep your steam up! Walt
Re: Routing Mikado Copper Water Pipes
Walt, I crossed mine, too. With the drawbar, there are two settings, close and not-as-close. I can't set it for close-couple without looping some of the hose into that space occupied by the drawbar pin and spring; otherwise, the hose kinks - at least it does for mine. The looping provides for perfect and level alignment with the fitting on the engine. With all the talk about bending copper pipe, I was curious about its application with the Mike. With the axle pump, I am getting run times of over an hour. I need to put together one of those water towers like you have - yours as described seems really neat. I think I fill the tender with distilled water about three times per run. It was well worth the effort. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe, I crossed mine over in an X shape to make things easier to work with, and alignment was much better. Walt -- Regards, Joe Betsko Pennsylvania USA Bala Cynwyd Railway: http://jsb.pennsy.home.att.net Primer for Novice Live Steamers: http://www.gardensteamers.com/tips.html Share Live Steaming Tips: http://www.gardensteamers.com/exchange.html iMac - Hey, I dont do windows!
Now antique machine tools
At 05:23 PM 3/15/01 -0500, you wrote: Was this the lathe also sold as a "Star" lathe? Keith I see or hear of these machines all over and I'm surprised at how many of them are still in almost daily use. I have a friend here who has one that was his grandfathers and who has built two 7-1/2" ga locomotives and who knows what else on it. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville, Tn
Re: wheels Now antique machine tools for hobby use.
From what I've been able to find out, the Star was a later version, but I'm not certain. Obviously this one was belt driven from a jack shaft. When I got it looked like it had been in the navy. It is mounted on a bench made of heavy angle and has drawers with gravity drop notches to prevent random opening. The motor is also located on the lower part of the bench with v-belt drive. It also has a taper attachment that works just fine. That forward/neutral/reverse belt drive is s smooth. To me there is much less chatter in a belt driven lathe than a gear head drive. Keep your steam up! Walt
Re: wheels Now antique machine tools for hobby use.
Keith, That PW Size O sounds like a real gem. A good friend of mine had a little Logan that he had set up to do everything a lathe could ever be asked to do. I would have dearly loved to have owned it when he passed away, but fortunately his son wanted it and I'm very glad he has it. His Dad had a good sized machine shop near Cleveland and had practically worn out and rebuilt the Logan in the 60 years he ran it. I'd stop at John's shop that he had here in Naples and he'd do show and tell about the things he had made for the Logan to do specific jobs. Without saying so, John was really tutoring me. He had me make a set of tool holders that he designed to use on my lathe, and showed me many other things. Not to cast any aspersions on Trent, and many other fine young guys who are masters of the CNC machines, I feel there is a lot of great knowledge and skills being lost as the old time manual machine guys pass on. Well, there's something about old iron and manual machinists that just doesn't seem to be around in a CNC environment. There almost seemed to be a symbiosis of man and machine that I do not think can ever exist again with a 0 or 1 environment. Wow, the nostalgia is as deep as the "fertilizer" on the floor of the box stalls after a long winter. Keep your steam up! Walt
Re: Routing Mikado Copper Water Pipes
I made my hoses do a little 'loop' that gives enough movement for negotiating curves and also allowing for close or distant coupling. Doesn't look so good up close, but when the Mike is out there on the track and I'm in the ergonomic, hydraulic controlled reclining device with a cup of amaretto coffee, or a cold product of mountain spring water at my side, it doesn't look all that bad! Keep your steam up! Walt
Re: Ruby SUPERHEATER?
At 02:50 PM 3/15/01 -0600, you wrote: How do you define 'Unobstructed'? Chris, I would define an obstruction as something like a steam tube was flattened (but not collapsed) in making a tight bend, or where steam maybe has to pass through a paper thin slit between the cylinder head and block to get from the valve passages to the cylinder ends, something along those lines. Of course it could also be an errant gob of solder, a wad of packing or sealant, or some such. I would think a large line leading to a smallish cylinder would (snip) making it nearly impossible to let expansion be a factor in powering the engine. I don't think that's a factor. Regardless of the size of the line you are only going to have as much steam in the line as you admit through the throttle. As soon as you pass the throttle the entire steam delivery path, drypipe, valve chest, and the cylinder ends in admission cycle become one continuous expansion chamber. Steam, being a fluid, will expand along the path of least resistance, in this case, the retreating pistons (and some though the glands). The amount of additional expansion allowed by the difference in volume between a 1/8" line and a 3/16" line would IMHO be imperceptible. What I'd think will affect the extent of expansion more than anything else will be the amount of cooling of steam taking place along that same path. Cheers, Harry
casting with wax
I found the link I was looking for regarding the sling shot effect. Spin casting, I know spin casting is used predominantly by the jewelry industry due to the inherent small size of the castings. It would probably work wonders for our scale too. Making a spin caster would be fairly easy. http://www.conquestind.com/spinpict.htm A possible solution to good wax castings. For larger stuff I have always rolled the rtv or silicon mold manually . I usually make the mothermold with metal nuts incorporated into it if its a large mold so it can be attached to a rig allowing me to rotate the mold ( non weight bearing). Even for smaller molds I by habit create a mothermold for the rtv. This keeps its integrity by using keys on the rtv into the mothermold. Silicast had a great fibreglass epoxy mothermold mix that sets fast and is light . I use and love they're silicon rubber mold material. http://www.smoothon.com/Products/liquidrubber.htm Cheers Ferdinand
Re: question re : milling
My ENCO only goes up to 3400 rpm. I very rarely ever go up there. Most is done between 500 and 1500 rpm. The CNC guys would say the machine was STOPPED at anything under three grand! Walt
List notes ...
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Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
Hi Geoff, I have also seen the flaired springs, but not in small gauge sizes. So I use small parrallel springs. They are ok for the small amount of bending I need to do. The Dubro tube bender from airplane or boat model shops looks good also. Am I the only other person who understood your comment on "Catherine Wheels"?. Bet no one knows who Guy Fawkes was either!!!. "Rule Britannia!". Tony D. At 12:11 PM 3/15/01 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: Yes Tony, I even have a set of springs designed for tube bending-The springs are flared at the end for easy insertion of the tubing. Unfortunately, I have had them a long time and don't recall where I got them. However they must be available somewhere! Geoff. Hi Vance, Reference tube bending without kinks. 1. For cold bending small bore copper brass or stainless tube, I pass the tube through a length of tightly wound coil spring. Then bend tube over a mandrel or by hand. The coils prevent the tube diameter distorting. To remove bent tube, simply "unscrew" the coil spring from the tube. My local hardware store carries coil springs down too .090" i/d. 2 For larger tubes I have used coil springs through the tube bore, with same results. 180 degree bends are easily achieved with this method. Need to ensure at least one end of coil spring is protruding in order to grip and unscrew. 9Or spring becomes a permanant fixture!. Alternatively you could leave spring in place, dependant on final usage. 3 I use same method for ensuring water feed pipes from tender to boiler do not get kinked in use, and looks prototypical if springs are visible on outside. 4 Dependant on individual design needs, cold bending is still risky, and copper or stainless tubes can easily crack. Therefore even a low heating temperature localised in prime bending area helps the bending process considerably. Tony D.
Plans
With all of this talk about the pattern pool and scratchbuilding and wheels I would like to raise the question of plans. Where did they come from and if you made them would you be willing to share them/sell them? A plan pool? Ian
Re: URL for Ruby SUPERHEATER?
You can get the spring type tubing benders from MicroMark. They're less than $10 for a set of four. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
