RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
People I have talked to who have posted jobs say they get 100's to 1000's of resumes, with about 1/3 locally. I know that 5 years ago I was able to get $50/hr from a contract agency (analysts international), but now the rate they are willing to pay is much less. Companies are putting a lot of pressure on contracting companies to lower their rates. I would suggest you look at Janet Ruhl's site (www.realrates.com) as there is usually some interesting information there about rates and what companies are trying to do to get them lowered. Mike -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM To: 'apachep2 '; ''Struts Users Mailing List' ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are more than enough jobs available in IT. It's qualifications what set the ones with a job apart from the ones without. There are still over 100,000 reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily postings of jobs. So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the developers we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs. Ilya -Original Message- From: apachep2 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry level job. -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -----Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
On a side note related to contracting/consulting, do ya'll generally attempt to get the "numbers" on the table when you deal with 3rd party recruiting companies? Are you usually aware of what the recruiting company is charging the firm you are working for? Do you feel (like I do) that you have a right to know? I've been on 5 contracts over the past 3+ years: Pay Rate / Bill Rate / Duration $55 hr / $77 hr / 13 months $155 hr / $220 hr / 6 weeks $83 hr / $100 hr / 13 months $55 hr / $90 hr / 9 months $155 hr / $165 hr / 1 week Only once did a recruiting company initially refuse to divulge to me what the client was going to be charged. That project ended up embroiled in some nasty infighting with the project manager fighting with the HR rep who was fighting with the recruiting firm that was doing everything it could to hide the ridiculous difference between pay rate/bill rate. Nothing exposes the darker side of human nature better than a bare knuckled brawl over large chunks of cash. ;) After that experience one thing I do (if at all possible) is get the recruiter face to face, chat them up some, ask very pointedly what they are planning on charging the client for me, then sit back and watch the show. Very rarely do they just come right out and say a number, but if they break into a cold sweat and act like they are hiding the secret location of Sadaam's private bunker, be forewarned, composing elegant Java code is most likely one of the easier challenges you have in front of you... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
That's really over-generalized. Those statistics cannot be so broadly applied to the market. 100,000 available jobs in IT can mean anything from network admins to programmers or perhaps help desk / customer-support people. I also think you'd need to compare the number of tangible programming positions and their technology demands (like Java or .NET, Cobol, HTML, etc.) to the available market of potential workers with the appropriate experience and interest. Not everyone is going to want to, or be able to, switch careers and go bang their head against Cobol for IBM Mainframes if their interest and expertise is J2EE; unless, they physically -must- do so for their own survival. In that case, it may be true, perhaps they are not qualified. The bottom line is that you can only talk about qualification within the context of a single given programming position (or a number of like programming positions), not the IT sector as a whole. It's irrelevant and even a bit gauche. Chris -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM To: 'apachep2 '; ''Struts Users Mailing List' ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are more than enough jobs available in IT. It's qualifications what set the ones with a job apart from the ones without. There are still over 100,000 reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily postings of jobs. So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the developers we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs. Ilya -Original Message- From: apachep2 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry level job. -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 14:07, Rick Reumann wrote: > On 28 Mar 2003 13:44:52 -0500 > James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Oh, well that must explain why I can't find a job in Atlanta. I'm not > > qualifiedI see. > > I wasn't qualified for this one either James, don't feel bad > > STRUTS DEVELOPER NEEDED > > REQUIRED SKILLS: > > Struts, Java, C++, XML, EJB, SQL, UML, Electrical Engineering, Expert > Horseback Rider, Must be able to shoot 85% from free throw line, > vegetarian, proficient in VCR repair, must be able to make a great pot > of coffee, must get along with Boss' wife and his pets. Oh ya, I saw that one too! They also wanted someone who could walk on water. > > PAY: 25-30/hr depending on experience > > > -- > Rick Reumann > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- James Mitchell Software Developer/Struts Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Let's all relocate to Ilya's country. I guess I have to pay for my relocation cost as you can find on most of the job board postings (local candidates only, no visa sponsorship, no relocation). -Original Message- From: Eva Sager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 1:49 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Atlanta's job market sucks... most of the jobs listed on Monster and other such boards have been there for ages, they aren't filled because the employer isn't filling them, not due to a lack of qualified developers. I know many extremely qualified developers who either aren't working or are working for far less than they are worth because they have to get a pay check. I am glad that your job market is so good Ilya, but I don't think you can speak for the economy in general. -Original Message- From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:45 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 13:34, Sterin, Ilya wrote: > Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are more > than enough jobs available in IT. It's qualifications what set the ones > with a job apart from the ones without. There are still over 100,000 > reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to > monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily postings > of jobs. So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the developers > we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs. Oh, well that must explain why I can't find a job in Atlanta. I'm not qualifiedI see. > > Ilya > > -Original Message----- > From: apachep2 > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' > Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job > for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid > whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of > developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry > level job. > > -Original Message----- > From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM > To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those > rates? > > Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is > $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, > dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average > expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, > then > there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed > after > the work is done. > > Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has > to > pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So > now > were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, > then > there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and > higher > and that's just the average. > > Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves > the > company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be > billed > for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is > done, > there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, > consultants > always find ways to bill:-) > > Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are > usually > for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the > subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also > past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team > developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most > of > those rates are for shorter term projects. > > I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag > McDonald's > employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper > was > smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) > > Ilya > > > -Original Message- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > Half right. :-) > > I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing > apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. > > Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they > really
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
On 28 Mar 2003 13:44:52 -0500 James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, well that must explain why I can't find a job in Atlanta. I'm not > qualifiedI see. I wasn't qualified for this one either James, don't feel bad STRUTS DEVELOPER NEEDED REQUIRED SKILLS: Struts, Java, C++, XML, EJB, SQL, UML, Electrical Engineering, Expert Horseback Rider, Must be able to shoot 85% from free throw line, vegetarian, proficient in VCR repair, must be able to make a great pot of coffee, must get along with Boss' wife and his pets. PAY: 25-30/hr depending on experience -- Rick Reumann - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
That's another great fact:-) Ilya -Original Message- From: Robert Leland To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/28/03 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? FYI: I have contracted twice once was for 4 months full time at $100/hr. The other was as a consultant at $110/hr, which was only for about 20 hours. This may be atypical, but a business will charge another company,goverment, for an regular employee that would be paid only 40%-50% of that, so $40/hr. -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Atlanta's job market sucks... most of the jobs listed on Monster and other such boards have been there for ages, they aren't filled because the employer isn't filling them, not due to a lack of qualified developers. I know many extremely qualified developers who either aren't working or are working for far less than they are worth because they have to get a pay check. I am glad that your job market is so good Ilya, but I don't think you can speak for the economy in general. -Original Message- From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:45 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 13:34, Sterin, Ilya wrote: > Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are more > than enough jobs available in IT. It's qualifications what set the ones > with a job apart from the ones without. There are still over 100,000 > reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to > monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily postings > of jobs. So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the developers > we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs. Oh, well that must explain why I can't find a job in Atlanta. I'm not qualifiedI see. > > Ilya > > -Original Message- > From: apachep2 > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' > Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job > for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid > whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of > developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry > level job. > > -Original Message- > From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM > To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those > rates? > > Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is > $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, > dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average > expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, > then > there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed > after > the work is done. > > Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has > to > pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So > now > were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, > then > there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and > higher > and that's just the average. > > Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves > the > company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be > billed > for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is > done, > there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, > consultants > always find ways to bill:-) > > Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are > usually > for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the > subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also > past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team > developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most > of > those rates are for shorter term projects. > > I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag > McDonald's > employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper > was > smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) > > Ilya > > > -Original Message- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > Half right. :-) > > I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing > apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. > > Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they > really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as > for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the > going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff > elsewhere who get even less. > > -Original Message- > From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 > To: Struts Use
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 13:34, Sterin, Ilya wrote: > Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are more > than enough jobs available in IT. It's qualifications what set the ones > with a job apart from the ones without. There are still over 100,000 > reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to > monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily postings > of jobs. So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the developers > we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs. Oh, well that must explain why I can't find a job in Atlanta. I'm not qualifiedI see. > > Ilya > > -Original Message- > From: apachep2 > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' > Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job > for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid > whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of > developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry > level job. > > -Original Message- > From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM > To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those > rates? > > Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is > $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, > dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average > expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, > then > there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed > after > the work is done. > > Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has > to > pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So > now > were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, > then > there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and > higher > and that's just the average. > > Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves > the > company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be > billed > for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is > done, > there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, > consultants > always find ways to bill:-) > > Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are > usually > for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the > subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also > past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team > developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most > of > those rates are for shorter term projects. > > I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag > McDonald's > employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper > was > smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) > > Ilya > > > -Original Message- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > Half right. :-) > > I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing > apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. > > Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they > really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as > for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the > going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff > elsewhere who get even less. > > -Original Message- > From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > > Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land > of low wages > > Scott > www.exergonic.com.au > > On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: > 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you > from? > India? Russia? > > In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a > charge > that most contractors will laugh at here. > > Ilya > > -Original Message- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Con
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are more than enough jobs available in IT. It's qualifications what set the ones with a job apart from the ones without. There are still over 100,000 reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily postings of jobs. So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the developers we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs. Ilya -Original Message- From: apachep2 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry level job. -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks hol
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
FYI: I have contracted twice once was for 4 months full time at $100/hr. The other was as a consultant at $110/hr, which was only for about 20 hours. This may be atypical, but a business will charge another company,goverment, for an regular employee that would be paid only 40%-50% of that, so $40/hr. -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Thats very much the case over here. People with several years experience elbowing out grads for the $2000 to $3000 a month (Thats 1100 - 1700 $USD approx (which is more than it was last week hehe)) positions (that used to be entry positions - but theres none of those now) and not just in IT... And one in two taxi drivers I meet seems to have been an engineer only a few months before... (The other one usually being some old codger whose been driving cabs since Model T's were all the rage) -Original Message- From: apachep2 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 22:51 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry level job. -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry level job. -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun).
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
An employer's FICA contribution is only 7.5% (the employee pays the other 7.5%). BAL From: "Sterin, Ilya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'Andrew Hill ' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 'Struts Users Mailing List ' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:03:58 -0700 I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -Original Message----- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of thes
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -Original Message- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Just to reiterate, there are many downsides, too many to list. The major one, at least that effected our decisions, is no legal juridistiction and no local support presence. The legal one, far outweighs the local support, but then add the bunch of other cons, and you'll see exactly why. Ilya -Original Message- From: Sterin, Ilya To: 'Alexandre Jaquet '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Sent: 3/27/03 6:50 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? But you are a student, there are many benefits to a company choosing a developer that comes with years of developing enterprise grade, scalable applications. For small web app projects, true, for enterprises, I doubt they'll want to save $40 an hour, to later have to redo the whole project, due to the fact that who ever developed it to begin with, had little experience with developing such apps. As you see, many US and other high wage countries, are in a way effected by people from India, Russia, China, etc... bidding on project, but not too many companies are willing to take the rist. Go to any bidding site, and see how it effects the bids. Elance is a great place to look at this bid process. Project A US Contractor bid: $45,000 USD UK Contractor bid: $40,000 USD Indian Contractor bid: $2,500 USD You'd think why wouldn't a corp go with the lower bid, well, there are many cons, that outweight the pros. Go to elance, and see which bids are being awarded the projects, and you'll see. Nothing against the folks in those countries or their bids, as they bid equivalent of what it's worth there. I myself, own a business, and had at some point thought about outsourcing stuff to India, in the process, I make the difference, and do no work, and do not have to pay my employees $40+ an hour, but on 95% of projects, the downsides of this, prevented us from outsourcing. Ilya -Original Message- From: Alexandre Jaquet To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? or maybe he will get more job's than the others ... less the rathing he's more client will came ... I'm a student but I take lots of contracts from clients who believe compagnies offer service so expensive for the same job. That's why I'm so busy lol. -- Alexandre Jaquet - Original Message - From: "Sterin, Ilya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Andrew Hill '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? > India? Russia? > > In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge > that most contractors will laugh at here. > > Ilya > > -Original Message- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > These are USD per HOUR? > > Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! > Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply > by > 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my > whole > working life (4+ years). A lot more... > > Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? > > Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? > > Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning > company, > for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not > included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays > OT > on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a > week > that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life > balance, > whatver than means :-) > > All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) > > Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ > Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ > Grade three (Designer) - 55$ > Grade four (Architect) - 90$ > Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ > > These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from > 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly > week-day/sat -- > 2*hourly sun). > > Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about > 22-40% > on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in > an > expensive part of town. > > NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal i
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
But you are a student, there are many benefits to a company choosing a developer that comes with years of developing enterprise grade, scalable applications. For small web app projects, true, for enterprises, I doubt they'll want to save $40 an hour, to later have to redo the whole project, due to the fact that who ever developed it to begin with, had little experience with developing such apps. As you see, many US and other high wage countries, are in a way effected by people from India, Russia, China, etc... bidding on project, but not too many companies are willing to take the rist. Go to any bidding site, and see how it effects the bids. Elance is a great place to look at this bid process. Project A US Contractor bid: $45,000 USD UK Contractor bid: $40,000 USD Indian Contractor bid: $2,500 USD You'd think why wouldn't a corp go with the lower bid, well, there are many cons, that outweight the pros. Go to elance, and see which bids are being awarded the projects, and you'll see. Nothing against the folks in those countries or their bids, as they bid equivalent of what it's worth there. I myself, own a business, and had at some point thought about outsourcing stuff to India, in the process, I make the difference, and do no work, and do not have to pay my employees $40+ an hour, but on 95% of projects, the downsides of this, prevented us from outsourcing. Ilya -Original Message- From: Alexandre Jaquet To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? or maybe he will get more job's than the others ... less the rathing he's more client will came ... I'm a student but I take lots of contracts from clients who believe compagnies offer service so expensive for the same job. That's why I'm so busy lol. -- Alexandre Jaquet - Original Message - From: "Sterin, Ilya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Andrew Hill '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? > India? Russia? > > In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge > that most contractors will laugh at here. > > Ilya > > -Original Message- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > These are USD per HOUR? > > Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! > Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply > by > 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my > whole > working life (4+ years). A lot more... > > Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? > > Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? > > Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning > company, > for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not > included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays > OT > on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a > week > that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life > balance, > whatver than means :-) > > All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) > > Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ > Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ > Grade three (Designer) - 55$ > Grade four (Architect) - 90$ > Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ > > These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from > 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly > week-day/sat -- > 2*hourly sun). > > Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about > 22-40% > on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in > an > expensive part of town. > > NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we > have > set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If > you've > been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about > anything!! > =]:0) > > Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! > > Cheers > > Simon > > > - Original Message - > From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
or maybe he will get more job's than the others ... less the rathing he's more client will came ... I'm a student but I take lots of contracts from clients who believe compagnies offer service so expensive for the same job. That's why I'm so busy lol. -- Alexandre Jaquet - Original Message - From: "Sterin, Ilya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Andrew Hill '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? > India? Russia? > > In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge > that most contractors will laugh at here. > > Ilya > > -Original Message----- > From: Andrew Hill > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > These are USD per HOUR? > > Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! > Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply > by > 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my > whole > working life (4+ years). A lot more... > > Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? > > Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? > > Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning > company, > for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not > included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays > OT > on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a > week > that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life > balance, > whatver than means :-) > > All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) > > Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ > Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ > Grade three (Designer) - 55$ > Grade four (Architect) - 90$ > Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ > > These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from > 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly > week-day/sat -- > 2*hourly sun). > > Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about > 22-40% > on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in > an > expensive part of town. > > NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we > have > set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If > you've > been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about > anything!! > =]:0) > > Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! > > Cheers > > Simon > > > - Original Message - > From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > "'Struts > Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired > was > > not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think it is > > really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate what we > are > > doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and better > > now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the lyrics. > > > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with > Linux, > > > > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable > request > > > > be? Thanks. > > > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the > courts, > > >which is illegal. > > > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a > starting
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired was > not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think it is > really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate what we are > doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and better > now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the lyrics. > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > > > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > > > be? Thanks. > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, > >which is illegal. > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting > >point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust > >that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. > > > >Tammy > > > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as > indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the > information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank > you > > > > -
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
And those are not that hot of rates either, excluding perhaps the senior arch. Tom Veldhouse - Original Message - From: "Mark Galbreath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:46 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Those are typical rates for the DC-Northern VA area -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:33 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired > was not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think > it is really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate > what we are doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and > better now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the > lyrics. > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with > > > Linux, scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a > > > reasonable request be? Thanks. > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the > >courts, which is illegal. > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a > >starting point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd > >need to adjust that for your local market, but that's not a bad > >starting point. > > > >Tammy > > > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents > contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential > and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use > of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission > was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, > any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Price fixing wouldn't apply to one person. Courts be damned. Tom Veldhouse - Original Message - From: "Tammy Cravit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > > be? Thanks. > > First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, > which is illegal. > > That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting > point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust > that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. > > Tammy > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Are you on your own or with a company (third party consulting)? Remember that you have to pay your own social security, insurance, travel costs and other administrative maintenance. $75 might be a good place to start. California expects a higher bill rate too, the cost of living in the Bay area, in particular, is simply outrageous. Tom Veldhouse - Original Message - From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 6:28 PM Subject: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > I have been offered a contract job and asked what I wanted per hour. I am > in Washington state and the client (a web development company) is in > California. I am an experienced Java (certified) programmer that knows the > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as > indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the > information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
The senior architect (There can be only one!! ;-) Try to tell our people that... :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Those are typical rates for the DC-Northern VA area -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:33 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired > was not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think > it is really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate > what we are doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and > better now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the > lyrics. > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with > > > Linux, scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a > > > reasonable request be? Thanks. > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the > >courts, which is illegal. > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a > >starting point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd > >need to adjust that for your local market, but that's not a bad > >starting point. > > > >Tammy > > > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents > contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential > and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use > of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission > was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, > any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on > the contents of the information contained in this transmission is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, > please delete the message. Thank > you > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [E
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
DAMN and blast my grade school math!!! I messed up a couple of the calculations, so from 1 to 5 it is in US dollars (Rounded up to the nearest dollar) 20, 28, 40, 80, 172. And the employee count (roughly); 20( grade 1 & 2), 4, 3, 1. And just as a rough guesstimate at the first quater of a liftimes earnings will be about 400,000 uk pounds in about 16 years for a standard worker (no uni education) working from 18 years old started work in 1987 (Based on uk average wage) which is about 14 uk pounds an hour. Senior executive, same time line (last quater of working life) would be looking at anything from 1.6M to 82.5M+ As you may have guessed, I have nothing to do at the moment (waiting on an "executive decission") =]:0) Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Simon Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > Not a word of a lie Andy. The senior architect (There can be only one!! ;-) > is on a little under 200K uk pounds, but note this is a *wage* not an hourly > rate he gets that a year plus bonuses, only the gardes 1 and 2 get the OT > and *only* if it is absolutely necessary and I think one of the grade 3s got > it once one mad weekend but that would have been a very special case. And > remember this is London, not Chiswick (Look it up in a map book, I can't > remeber where it is) and a one bedroom flat can set you back the best part > of 150K+ and that's not in the best bits. > > You could probably knock the best part of 40% off outside of London, > although Bristol pay is heading in that direction if you get in the right > company. > > Cheers > > Simon > > - Original Message - > From: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:32 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > > These are USD per HOUR? > > > > Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! > > Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply > by > > 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my > whole > > working life (4+ years). A lot more... > > > > Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? > > > > Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? > > > > Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > > > > These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning > company, > > for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not > > included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays > OT > > on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week > > that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life > balance, > > whatver than means :-) > > > > All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) > > > > Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ > > Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ > > Grade three (Designer) - 55$ > > Grade four (Architect) - 90$ > > Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ > > > > These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from > > 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly > week-day/sat -- > > 2*hourly sun). > > > > Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about > 22-40% > > on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an > > expensive part of town. > > > > NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we > have > > set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've > > been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! > > =]:0) > > > > Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! > > > > Cheers > > > > Simon > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts > > Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM > > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > &
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Not a word of a lie Andy. The senior architect (There can be only one!! ;-) is on a little under 200K uk pounds, but note this is a *wage* not an hourly rate he gets that a year plus bonuses, only the gardes 1 and 2 get the OT and *only* if it is absolutely necessary and I think one of the grade 3s got it once one mad weekend but that would have been a very special case. And remember this is London, not Chiswick (Look it up in a map book, I can't remeber where it is) and a one bedroom flat can set you back the best part of 150K+ and that's not in the best bits. You could probably knock the best part of 40% off outside of London, although Bristol pay is heading in that direction if you get in the right company. Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > These are USD per HOUR? > > Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! > Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by > 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole > working life (4+ years). A lot more... > > Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? > > Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? > > Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, > for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not > included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT > on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week > that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, > whatver than means :-) > > All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) > > Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ > Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ > Grade three (Designer) - 55$ > Grade four (Architect) - 90$ > Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ > > These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from > 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- > 2*hourly sun). > > Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% > on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an > expensive part of town. > > NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have > set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've > been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! > =]:0) > > Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! > > Cheers > > Simon > > > ----- Original Message - > From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts > Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM > Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > > > > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired was > > not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think it is > > really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate what we are > > doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and better > > now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the lyrics. > > > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > > > > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > > > > be? Thanks. > > > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, > > >which is illegal. > > > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting > > >point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust > > >that for your local market, but that's not a bad
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -Original Message- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired was > not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think it is > really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate what we are > doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and better > now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the lyrics. > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > > > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > > > be? Thanks. > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, > >which is illegal. > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting > >point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust > >that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. > > > >Tammy > > > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as > indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the > information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank > you > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon - Original Message - From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? > I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired was > not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think it is > really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate what we are > doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and better > now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the lyrics. > > At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > > > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > > > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > > > be? Thanks. > > > >First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a > >mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on > >another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion > >from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar > >amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, > >which is illegal. > > > >That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide > >your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting > >point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust > >that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. > > > >Tammy > > > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as > indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the > information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank > you > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
I hope you know that my prior response that the lawyer should be fired was not aimed at you, Tammy. I appreciate your assistance. I think it is really funny, however, that a lawyer would actually associate what we are doing with antitrust behavior. Heck, I feel bigger and better now. LOL! That lawyer needs to get the tune to match the lyrics. At 08:49 PM 3/26/03 -0800, Tammy Cravit wrote: > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, which is illegal. That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. Tammy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
This is funny. Price fixing! Fire that lawyer. I AM a lawyer. That is ridiculous. At 10:03 PM 3/26/03 -0700, you wrote: I never thought we'd have lawyers telling use what we can and can't discuss on *our* mailing list. David From: "Tammy Cravit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:49:31 -0800 > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, which is illegal. That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. Tammy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Well, all depends, experience, quality, references, etc... Also, a lot depends on the length of the project. For a short term, you can charge about twice as much, where long term, they usually expect regular employment rates It's hard to estimate, also depends on who the client is. Larger clients, can pay a lot more, smaller clients are cheap and look for best price. Short term contract $75/hour-$125/hour Long term $50/hour-$100/hour Also, look at competition. Do they have other prospects, etc... You really have to get a feeling for the project. You say contract work, but sounds more like regular employment on contract basis. To me, contract work means more on the basis of building a system and leaving. Since you are looking to relocate, I take it that this is a long term contract, so look at it as a regular employment type, then add what ever you'll need for benefits, if they are not paying them for you, like medical/dental insurance, vacation, etc... Ilya -Original Message- From: Micael To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3/26/03 7:28 PM Subject: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I have been offered a contract job and asked what I wanted per hour. I am in Washington state and the client (a web development company) is in California. I am an experienced Java (certified) programmer that knows the general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request be? Thanks. LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
I never thought we'd have lawyers telling use what we can and can't discuss on *our* mailing list. David From: "Tammy Cravit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:49:31 -0800 > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, which is illegal. That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. Tammy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
> general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. First of all, I would caution about asking questions like this on a mailing list, as the discussion of hourly rates and stuff came up on another list I belong to and the moderators there obtained an opinion from a lawyer that discussing pricing in terms of specific dollar amounts in a group like this could be deemed price-fixing by the courts, which is illegal. That having been said, one common rule of thumb seems to be to divide your annual salary as an employee by 1000, and using that as a starting point for figuring out your hourly rate. Obviously you'd need to adjust that for your local market, but that's not a bad starting point. Tammy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
Sorry, James, you the man, Jeff. LOL. Thanks to both of you for your input. At 09:12 PM 3/26/03 -0600, you wrote: That seems pretty low to me... On Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 09:02 PM, James Mitchell wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 21:28, Micael wrote: I have been offered a contract job and asked what I wanted per hour. I am in Washington state and the client (a web development company) is in California. I am an experienced Java (certified) programmer that knows the general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request be? Thanks. $50/hr LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- James Mitchell Software Developer/Struts Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
You the man, James. Thanks. At 10:02 PM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 21:28, Micael wrote: > I have been offered a contract job and asked what I wanted per hour. I am > in Washington state and the client (a web development company) is in > California. I am an experienced Java (certified) programmer that knows the > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. $50/hr > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as > indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the > information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- James Mitchell Software Developer/Struts Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
That seems pretty low to me... On Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 09:02 PM, James Mitchell wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 21:28, Micael wrote: I have been offered a contract job and asked what I wanted per hour. I am in Washington state and the client (a web development company) is in California. I am an experienced Java (certified) programmer that knows the general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request be? Thanks. $50/hr LEGAL NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- James Mitchell Software Developer/Struts Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?
On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 21:28, Micael wrote: > I have been offered a contract job and asked what I wanted per hour. I am > in Washington state and the client (a web development company) is in > California. I am an experienced Java (certified) programmer that knows the > general landscape well (Tomcat, Struts, Ant, etc., etc., with Linux, > scripting, various databases, etc.). What would a reasonable request > be? Thanks. $50/hr > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the > individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as > indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the > information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- James Mitchell Software Developer/Struts Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
