Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

[Thibaud Taudin Chabot]

You can create a 'projected' sundial by placing 
the sundial pattern inside the opening. The 
shadow of this pattern will move over the reading point on the floor.
See Nass compendium vol 1 nr 3 page 6. I designed 
this type as a vandal proof dial, it is 
transparant "projection type". No parts that can be broken or removed.
The pattern can be on a perspex pane placed 
inside the parapet but you can also keep the 
parapet open and create the pattern by placing 
wires in the parapet to get the reuired pattern.

Thibaud


At 17:34 21-4-2020, Alon Gan wrote:

Dear dialist,

I have a 0.8x3.8 meter opening in a wall on the 
roof (technically, a parapet, I believe) which 
is facing west (5.6 degrees north of West, 
actually). After much consideration I came to 
the conclusion that I would like to have a faux 
stained glass sundial (i.e., printed on a large 
pane of glass) with gnomons on both sides of the 
glass, one for showing morning times and the other for the afternoon.
(see attached image showing a very rough example 
of what I have in mind). If it helps, I live at 
32°22’40â″N 
34°52’8 ³E.Â


Please see if you can help me with any one of the following questions:
1. Do you know of any example of such a dial I can study?
2. Due to the elongated dimensions, I think I 
can include additional dials (e.g., direction of 
the sun, etc.) - do you have any ideas?Â
3. I'm trying to decide between a regular 
"linear" gnomon to a spherical gnomon/nodus on a 
perpendicular rod rising from the cornice below. Any ideas?
4. Any interesting ways of including EoT data 
(e.g., connecting to date using a nodus?)


And also for a technical question -
5. I use Shadows for the design (unless you have 
other recommendations), I want to convert the 
data to visio or any other free CAD editor and 
after I design all the dials together, convert 
it again to photoshop, for an artist to design 
it graphically. Any thoughts on easy ways to do all of those conversions?


Thanks a lot

(You can also contact me privately at alongan(at)gmail.com

Best, Alon Gan

.
example alon sundial.jpg


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--
Th. Taudin Chabot, . tcha...@dds.nl



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RE: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

[Jack Aubert]

I think it may be difficult to get a good visible shadow on glass viewed from 
outside.  Stained glass dials work nicely from a darkened room inside. There is 
also the question of finding an appropriate type of paint that will stand up to 
the UV light.  

It may be more difficult to handle the mechanical aspects of this project than 
the actual design of the dial.  Has John Carmichael been able to comment?  He 
is the stained glass expert.  

 

Jack Aubert  

  

 

 

From: sundial  On Behalf Of Michael Ossipoff
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:19 PM
To: Steve Lelievre 
Cc: Alon Gan ; sundial list 
Subject: Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

 

 

Steve--

 

Yes, undeniably the co-Italian hours have more practical use than Babylonian 
hours, as do the Temporary Hours that used to be standard before clocks came 
into use.  

 

For outdoor work like agriculture, or anything for which candle-light wasn't 
sufficient, of course it mattered very much how many hours were left before 
sunset(co-Italian), or  what percentage of the day remained (Temporary-Hours). 
If you've plowed 1/3 of the field that needs plowing today, then it's desirable 
that not more than 1/3 of the day has elapsed.

 

But I wouldn't choose Temporary Hours, because now the matter of how much of 
the day is gone seems like a negative thing to remind oneself of, and not the 
right way to regard the day or the time.  Maybe that's why you don't like 
Babylonian Hours.

 

What I like about Babylonian Hours is that it tells how young the day is, early 
in the morning. That's why I'd include it.

 

Of course, with both Babylonian and co-Italian Hours, one could determine 
Temporary hours by:

 

T = B/(B+CI)

 

...where T = Temporary

 B = Babylonian

 CI = co-Italian

 

Michael Ossipoff

 

Aprilis 23rd, 2020

Taurus 5th

18 Th

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:00 PM Steve Lelievre mailto:steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Michael,

For sure.

I simply ignored the possibility of Babylonian Hours because I 
personally don't think they have much practical use (to the extent that 
any sundial has practical use these days). For a dial showing hours to 
sunset, on the other hand, I do see some hint of practical use. It will 
tell me if I have time to mow the lawn or finish painting the fence 
before it gets dark, and so on. As well, for observers of some 
religions, a sunset dial could be used to know approximately how much 
time is left until, for example, the Sabbath starts or until a daytime 
fast can be broken.

Steve





On 2020-04-22 5:52 a.m., Michael Ossipoff wrote:
> Because the dial is a translucent-double one, with gnomons on both 
> sides of the dial-plate, it would tell time all day, and so it could 
> give Babylonian-hours in addition to co-Italian hours.
>
> On a single dial, with everything on the same dial-face, it would 
> avoid clutter to show Babylonian hours only in the morning, and 
> co-Italian hours only in the evening. But, with the very wide hole in 
> the wall, there's easily room for 3 dials, with one exclusively for 
> Babylonian and co-Italian, and so it wouldn't be cluttered to show 
> both for all day.

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Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

[Michael Ossipoff]

Steve--

Yes, undeniably the co-Italian hours have more practical use than
Babylonian hours, as do the Temporary Hours that used to be standard before
clocks came into use.

For outdoor work like agriculture, or anything for which candle-light
wasn't sufficient, of course it mattered very much how many hours were left
before sunset(co-Italian), or  what *percentage* of the day remained
(Temporary-Hours). If you've plowed 1/3 of the field that needs plowing
today, then it's desirable that not more than 1/3 of the day has elapsed.

But I wouldn't choose Temporary Hours, because now the matter of how much
of the day is gone seems like a negative thing to remind oneself of, and
not the right way to regard the day or the time.  Maybe that's why you
don't like Babylonian Hours.

What I like about Babylonian Hours is that it tells how young the day is,
early in the morning. That's why I'd include it.

Of course, with both Babylonian and co-Italian Hours, one could determine
Temporary hours by:

T = B/(B+CI)

...where T = Temporary
 B = Babylonian
 CI = co-Italian

Michael Ossipoff

Aprilis 23rd, 2020
Taurus 5th
18 Th


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:00 PM Steve Lelievre <
steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michael,
>
> For sure.
>
> I simply ignored the possibility of Babylonian Hours because I
> personally don't think they have much practical use (to the extent that
> any sundial has practical use these days). For a dial showing hours to
> sunset, on the other hand, I do see some hint of practical use. It will
> tell me if I have time to mow the lawn or finish painting the fence
> before it gets dark, and so on. As well, for observers of some
> religions, a sunset dial could be used to know approximately how much
> time is left until, for example, the Sabbath starts or until a daytime
> fast can be broken.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2020-04-22 5:52 a.m., Michael Ossipoff wrote:
> > Because the dial is a translucent-double one, with gnomons on both
> > sides of the dial-plate, it would tell time all day, and so it could
> > give Babylonian-hours in addition to co-Italian hours.
> >
> > On a single dial, with everything on the same dial-face, it would
> > avoid clutter to show Babylonian hours only in the morning, and
> > co-Italian hours only in the evening. But, with the very wide hole in
> > the wall, there's easily room for 3 dials, with one exclusively for
> > Babylonian and co-Italian, and so it wouldn't be cluttered to show
> > both for all day.
>
>
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Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

[Steve Lelievre]

Michael,

For sure.

I simply ignored the possibility of Babylonian Hours because I 
personally don't think they have much practical use (to the extent that 
any sundial has practical use these days). For a dial showing hours to 
sunset, on the other hand, I do see some hint of practical use. It will 
tell me if I have time to mow the lawn or finish painting the fence 
before it gets dark, and so on. As well, for observers of some 
religions, a sunset dial could be used to know approximately how much 
time is left until, for example, the Sabbath starts or until a daytime 
fast can be broken.


Steve





On 2020-04-22 5:52 a.m., Michael Ossipoff wrote:
Because the dial is a translucent-double one, with gnomons on both 
sides of the dial-plate, it would tell time all day, and so it could 
give Babylonian-hours in addition to co-Italian hours.


On a single dial, with everything on the same dial-face, it would 
avoid clutter to show Babylonian hours only in the morning, and 
co-Italian hours only in the evening. But, with the very wide hole in 
the wall, there's easily room for 3 dials, with one exclusively for 
Babylonian and co-Italian, and so it wouldn't be cluttered to show 
both for all day.


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Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

[Alon Gan]

Thanks for all of your responses! I'm still reading about the different
types of dials suggested and all of the additional material you provided!

In the meantime, I prepared a better diagram of the location of the
sundial, which is available here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18VldWIorcF2L4Xuy6Ge5PU-nmiJb_VGa/view?usp=sharing

Thanks everybody!

Alon

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 6:34 PM Alon Gan  wrote:

> Dear dialist,
>
> I have a 0.8x3.8 meter opening in a wall on the roof (technically, a
> parapet, I believe) which is facing west (5.6 degrees north of West,
> actually). After much consideration I came to the conclusion that I would
> like to have a faux stained glass sundial (i.e., printed on a large pane of
> glass) with gnomons on both sides of the glass, one for showing morning
> times and the other for the afternoon.
> (see attached image showing a very rough example of what I have in mind).
> If it helps, I live at 32°22′40″N 34°52′8″E
> 
> .
>
> Please see if you can help me with any one of the following questions:
> 1. Do you know of any example of such a dial I can study?
> 2. Due to the elongated dimensions, I think I can include additional dials
> (e.g., direction of the sun, etc.) - do you have any ideas?
> 3. I'm trying to decide between a regular "linear" gnomon to a spherical
> gnomon/nodus on a perpendicular rod rising from the cornice below. Any
> ideas?
> 4. Any interesting ways of including EoT data (e.g., connecting to date
> using a nodus?)
>
> And also for a technical question -
> 5. I use Shadows for the design (unless you have other recommendations), I
> want to convert the data to visio or any other free CAD editor and after I
> design all the dials together, convert it again to photoshop, for an artist
> to design it graphically. Any thoughts on easy ways to do all of those
> conversions?
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> (You can also contact me privately at alongan(at)gmail.com
>
> Best, Alon Gan
>
> .
> [image: example alon sundial.jpg]
>
>
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Advice sought re:transparent sundial design

[Alon Gan]

Dear dialist,

I have a 0.8x3.8 meter opening in a wall on the roof (technically, a
parapet, I believe) which is facing west (5.6 degrees north of West,
actually). After much consideration I came to the conclusion that I would
like to have a faux stained glass sundial (i.e., printed on a large pane of
glass) with gnomons on both sides of the glass, one for showing morning
times and the other for the afternoon.
(see attached image showing a very rough example of what I have in mind).
If it helps, I live at 32°22′40″N 34°52′8″E

.

Please see if you can help me with any one of the following questions:
1. Do you know of any example of such a dial I can study?
2. Due to the elongated dimensions, I think I can include additional dials
(e.g., direction of the sun, etc.) - do you have any ideas?
3. I'm trying to decide between a regular "linear" gnomon to a spherical
gnomon/nodus on a perpendicular rod rising from the cornice below. Any
ideas?
4. Any interesting ways of including EoT data (e.g., connecting to date
using a nodus?)

And also for a technical question -
5. I use Shadows for the design (unless you have other recommendations), I
want to convert the data to visio or any other free CAD editor and after I
design all the dials together, convert it again to photoshop, for an artist
to design it graphically. Any thoughts on easy ways to do all of those
conversions?

Thanks a lot

(You can also contact me privately at alongan(at)gmail.com

Best, Alon Gan

.
[image: example alon sundial.jpg]
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