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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Mike C]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:34:11 -0500, hawker wrote:

I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on 
Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but 
with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting 
Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so 


Hi!

Which extensions that you are personally concerned about that are broken
or not longer supporting SeaMonkey? We are currently planning an
outreach program targeting extension authors who used to support the old
Mozilla Suite or SeaMonkey 1.x, to encourage them to resume support for
the Suite. If you let us know about any specific extensions we can add
those authors to our email spam^Wmarketing campaign.

I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though that 
program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to the point 
of unusable with poor current standards support.  So perhaps I'm just an 
anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype BBSs again ;)


Have you tried the latest Eudora 8 betas?

Phil


I don't think RoboForm supports SM 2 yet.
http://www.roboform.com/browsers.html

Mike C
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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Rufus]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:33:15 -0800, Rufus wrote:
...which brings up a good point - the changes in Thunderbird were/are 
actually for the better...on all but on point I can think of.


This is surprising since we share the exact same mailnews backend code
as Thunderbird 3.0.

Phil



Yes, but the interface options/functionality between the two is 
different - most notably in that I can drag and drop Account/NG order in 
TB, and I can't in SM.  And I just discovered that in TB I can open a 
tab for each server/subscription if I want, and those tabs don't close 
at shutdown and the state is remembered at the next startup - I really 
like that.


The only thing I've seen in TB 3.0 that I don't like so far is that the 
Attachment icon in the message tray is displayed too small - but that 
could be sufficiently addressed by making it scale in accord with the 
user set height of the tray.


Function to the user makes all the difference - not so much what's under 
the hood.  I'm becoming more inclined to start using TB more.


--
 - Rufus
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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Philip Chee]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:33:15 -0800, Rufus wrote:
> ...which brings up a good point - the changes in Thunderbird were/are 
> actually for the better...on all but on point I can think of.

This is surprising since we share the exact same mailnews backend code
as Thunderbird 3.0.

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee , 
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oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Philip Chee]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:34:11 -0500, hawker wrote:

> I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on 
> Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but 
> with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting 
> Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so 

Hi!

Which extensions that you are personally concerned about that are broken
or not longer supporting SeaMonkey? We are currently planning an
outreach program targeting extension authors who used to support the old
Mozilla Suite or SeaMonkey 1.x, to encourage them to resume support for
the Suite. If you let us know about any specific extensions we can add
those authors to our email spam^Wmarketing campaign.

> I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though that 
> program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to the point 
> of unusable with poor current standards support.  So perhaps I'm just an 
> anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype BBSs again ;)

Have you tried the latest Eudora 8 betas?

Phil

-- 
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oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

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Re: Happy with 2.0.1 now (Almost)

[Philip Chee]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:02:21 +0100, Jens Hatlak wrote:
> BeeNeR wrote:
>> Only two things to complain about:
>> 1.  No quick start button.  I really miss that!
> 
> Gone for good, sorry.

Perhaps not. Firefox Mobile has reimplemented the quick launch
technology which they call "fastload". Not to mention a splash screen as
well o_O . We just need to port over their code. Having said that we
have very limited manpower so it's unlikely we will actually do this
unless some volunteer steps out of the blue to do this for us of course.

Phil

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oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]We come in peace.  Shoot to kill.
* TagZilla 0.066.6

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Re: Threading don't work for one mail address

[Steve Wendt]

On 12/15/09 02:47 am, Martin Freitag wrote:


As I don't have TB, so that's not possible for me to do. But that editor
could be useful also in SM.


Maybe time to file an enhancement bug if it doesn't already exist? ;-)


It's the same as about:config
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0.1 Security Update

[Leonidas Jones]

George Carden wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

As part of Mozilla's ongoing stability and security update process,
SeaMonkey 2.0.1 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a free
download from www.seamonkey-project.org.

We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to
this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive
an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can
also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the
Help menu.

For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey
2.0.1 Release Notes.

Note: All SeaMonkey 1.x and old Mozilla or Netscape suite users are
encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0.x by downloading it from
www.seamonkey-project.org.

Full news article:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2009-12-15

Downloads for all available platforms and languages:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

Release notes:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.1

System Requirements:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements

Robert Kaiser
SeaMonkey project coordinator


Robert,

Is it still recommended that we uninstall the previous SeaMonkey version
before installing the update?

Thanks for all the work!

-George


A point update like this should install from the updater, there should 
be no need to uninstall.


Lee
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0.1 Security Update

[Rufus]

Leonidas Jones wrote:

George Carden wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

As part of Mozilla's ongoing stability and security update process,
SeaMonkey 2.0.1 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a free
download from www.seamonkey-project.org.

We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to
this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive
an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can
also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the
Help menu.

For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey
2.0.1 Release Notes.

Note: All SeaMonkey 1.x and old Mozilla or Netscape suite users are
encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0.x by downloading it from
www.seamonkey-project.org.

Full news article:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2009-12-15

Downloads for all available platforms and languages:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

Release notes:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.1

System Requirements:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements

Robert Kaiser
SeaMonkey project coordinator


Robert,

Is it still recommended that we uninstall the previous SeaMonkey version
before installing the update?

Thanks for all the work!

-George


A point update like this should install from the updater, there should
be no need to uninstall.

Lee


Worked for me.

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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Rufus]

Leonidas Jones wrote:

Rufus wrote:


...which brings up a good point - the changes in Thunderbird were/are
actually for the better...on all but on point I can think of.



Well, take a good look at eh TB group, there wold seem to be a lot who
disagree.

Lee


I had zero issues with the TB 3.0 installation, and all of my SM Mail 
and News accounts and pref settings were migrated without any trouble or 
issue.


Mostly what I've noted with TB 3.0 is that it's default Mac interface is 
a lot more "Mac-like" than what was done for SM 2.0 - I'm inclined to go 
hunting another Theme like I was with SM's default.  I also like that I 
can drag and drop the order of my NG and Accounts in the Sidebar...which 
I can't do with SM.


Admittedly, I'm not a heavy TB user - I use SM primarily, and Apple 
Mail.app.  I pretty much use TB only as a newsreader.  But I'm liking it 
so far, with the exception that the Attachment icon is now far too small 
- same interface issue as I have with SM 2.0 Dialog boxes.


But in the TB case I could suggest that the Attachment icon size scale 
with the tray size - which it doesn't.  That would let the user set the 
size to something reasonable to the user.


--
 - Rufus
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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Martin Freitag]

hawker schrieb:

So I just got to wondering if most of us Seamonkey people are just
Netscape hold ons that are not comfortable with the FireFox/Thunderbird
interface for whatever reason?



Their GUI is crippled.



Anyone out there a Seamonkey user who was not a Netscape users?



Yes there are some (probably because some 
Oldschool-Netscape=>Samonkey-User got his hands on their PC ;-P)


I came from NS4 to Netscape6 and pretty soon to Mozilla Suite once I 
found ot NS6 was based on it and Mozilla updating much faster (NS6 
tended to crash for me quite often, was based on some 
milestone-"release" only afaik)




I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on
Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but
with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting
Seamonkey


Which ones? Most popular extensions which worked in SM1 do work (some 
need compatibility enforcement) or have an equivalent in my opinion.




Seamonkey just isn't getting the
support it did when it was still Mozilla Suite unfortunately (a fact I
don't want to accept).



Spread the word, spread Seamonkey ;-)
Many extension authors are willing and capable of adjusting their 
extensions, just drop them a line. :-)


regards
Martin
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0.1 Security Update

[George Carden]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

As part of Mozilla's ongoing stability and security update process,
SeaMonkey 2.0.1 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a free
download from www.seamonkey-project.org.

We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to
this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive
an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can
also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the
Help menu.

For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey
2.0.1 Release Notes.

Note: All SeaMonkey 1.x and old Mozilla or Netscape suite users are
encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0.x by downloading it from
www.seamonkey-project.org.

Full news article:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2009-12-15

Downloads for all available platforms and languages:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

Release notes:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.1

System Requirements:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements

Robert Kaiser
SeaMonkey project coordinator


Robert,

Is it still recommended that we uninstall the previous SeaMonkey version 
before installing the update?


Thanks for all the work!

-George
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[Robert Kaiser]

Phillip Jones wrote:

SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out
the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets.


FF 3.5.5 was a very short-cycle crash-fix-only release and we didn't 
have the resources to create an update at that time (mostly because our 
only build and release engineer, that is my humble self, was just about 
to go into a vacation), so we still went with the regularly scheduled 
security update as a base, which is today's FF 3.5.6 release.


And that's why SeaMonkey 2.0.1 has been in testing mode for about a week 
now and just was made public (it's pretty normal to have 1-2 weeks of 
testing phase before we make a release public, so that we can catch any 
unexpected problems that might still be in the release builds).


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Leonidas Jones]

Rufus wrote:


...which brings up a good point - the changes in Thunderbird were/are
actually for the better...on all but on point I can think of.



Well, take a good look at eh TB group, there wold seem to be a lot who 
disagree.


Lee
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[Leonidas Jones]

NoOp wrote:

On 12/15/2009 11:21 AM, Jens Hatlak wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

David Wilkinson wrote:

Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official
version is
(AFAICT) SM 2.0?


But believe I read either in this
forum or perhaps on the SM group, that SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out
the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets. well I've updated to
FF3.5.5 a couple of weeks ago, and still no update.


That's because they'll both be released *today*. ;-)


Apparently not yet as of 19:12 PDT



Missed by 4 minutes, see Robert's post.


Lee
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SeaMonkey 2.0.1 Security Update

[Robert Kaiser]

As part of Mozilla's ongoing stability and security update process, 
SeaMonkey 2.0.1 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a free 
download from www.seamonkey-project.org.


We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to 
this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive 
an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can 
also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the 
Help menu.


For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey
2.0.1 Release Notes.

Note: All SeaMonkey 1.x and old Mozilla or Netscape suite users are 
encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0.x by downloading it from 
www.seamonkey-project.org.


Full news article:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2009-12-15

Downloads for all available platforms and languages:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

Release notes:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.1

System Requirements:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements

Robert Kaiser
SeaMonkey project coordinator
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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Rufus]

...which brings up a good point - the changes in Thunderbird were/are 
actually for the better...on all but on point I can think of.


--
 - Rufus

rob wrote:
For all of the changes to Seamonkey they are dwarfed by the changes in 
Thunderbird.


On 12/15/2009 8:10 PM, Rufus wrote:

hawker wrote:

So I just got to wondering if most of us Seamonkey people are just
Netscape hold ons that are not comfortable with the
FireFox/Thunderbird interface for whatever reason?

Anyone out there a Seamonkey user who was not a Netscape users?
As for me I started on Netscape 1.x though 4.6x then skipped to
Netscape 7.x (6.x never worked well for me), on to Mozilla Suite and
then Seamonkey. Firefox/Thunderbird never felt comfortable to me since
I knew Netscape better and so I stay here with Seamonkey.

I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on
Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but
with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting
Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so
resistant to go over th Firefox. Seamonkey just isn't getting the
support it did when it was still Mozilla Suite unfortunately (a fact I
don't want to accept).

I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though
that program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to
the point of unusable with poor current standards support. So perhaps
I'm just an anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype
BBSs again ;)


Anyone want to wax philosophical about this?

Hawker


I stay with it mainly for it's user configurable security features, and
the fact that I like it for it's integrated browser/mail/usenet suite -
it's convenient.

But like yourself, I'm beginning to question my loyalty to it -
particularly in light of the random changes to the interface which
either deny me the utility I once praised, eliminate it entirely, or
confuse me as to it's current state after it's alleged "upgrade".

There are a number of enterprise customers I support which still hang
onto NS (in place of IE) in some situations because of some of that
aforementioned configurability and functionality that I have personally
been trying to get to look at Seamonkey (for it's comparable certificate
handling, strong 128 bit encryption, cookie management, etc.) as an
update/upgrade...but I'm not really sure I should continue to do that at
this point.

Some of those customers are now using Firefox in place of NS, but that
doesn't really get me what I desire - these customers generally use MS
Outlook, and so the suite concept doesn't sell with them. The lack of
status information in the dialog boxes regarding the aforementioned
attributes is certainly not reassuring to such customers...and then
there's those stupid tiny buttons...and that's just two starting points
of departure when it comes to addressing an enterprise user base...

I may start paying more attention the Firefox/Thunderbird solution
myself...I've been tinkering with TB 3.0 and so far I'm far more pleased
with it than I have been with SM 2.0. If Firefox offers the control I
like(d) in SM, I may just switch. If it's good enough for corporations,
it's probably good enough for me.




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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[rob]

For all of the changes to Seamonkey they are dwarfed by the changes in 
Thunderbird.


On 12/15/2009 8:10 PM, Rufus wrote:

hawker wrote:

So I just got to wondering if most of us Seamonkey people are just
Netscape hold ons that are not comfortable with the
FireFox/Thunderbird interface for whatever reason?

Anyone out there a Seamonkey user who was not a Netscape users?
As for me I started on Netscape 1.x though 4.6x then skipped to
Netscape 7.x (6.x never worked well for me), on to Mozilla Suite and
then Seamonkey. Firefox/Thunderbird never felt comfortable to me since
I knew Netscape better and so I stay here with Seamonkey.

I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on
Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but
with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting
Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so
resistant to go over th Firefox. Seamonkey just isn't getting the
support it did when it was still Mozilla Suite unfortunately (a fact I
don't want to accept).

I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though
that program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to
the point of unusable with poor current standards support. So perhaps
I'm just an anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype
BBSs again ;)


Anyone want to wax philosophical about this?

Hawker


I stay with it mainly for it's user configurable security features, and
the fact that I like it for it's integrated browser/mail/usenet suite -
it's convenient.

But like yourself, I'm beginning to question my loyalty to it -
particularly in light of the random changes to the interface which
either deny me the utility I once praised, eliminate it entirely, or
confuse me as to it's current state after it's alleged "upgrade".

There are a number of enterprise customers I support which still hang
onto NS (in place of IE) in some situations because of some of that
aforementioned configurability and functionality that I have personally
been trying to get to look at Seamonkey (for it's comparable certificate
handling, strong 128 bit encryption, cookie management, etc.) as an
update/upgrade...but I'm not really sure I should continue to do that at
this point.

Some of those customers are now using Firefox in place of NS, but that
doesn't really get me what I desire - these customers generally use MS
Outlook, and so the suite concept doesn't sell with them. The lack of
status information in the dialog boxes regarding the aforementioned
attributes is certainly not reassuring to such customers...and then
there's those stupid tiny buttons...and that's just two starting points
of departure when it comes to addressing an enterprise user base...

I may start paying more attention the Firefox/Thunderbird solution
myself...I've been tinkering with TB 3.0 and so far I'm far more pleased
with it than I have been with SM 2.0. If Firefox offers the control I
like(d) in SM, I may just switch. If it's good enough for corporations,
it's probably good enough for me.



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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[NoOp]

On 12/15/2009 11:21 AM, Jens Hatlak wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> David Wilkinson wrote:
>>> Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official
>>> version is
>>> (AFAICT) SM 2.0?
>>>
>> But believe I read either in this
>> forum or perhaps on the SM group, that SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out
>> the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets. well I've updated to
>> FF3.5.5 a couple of weeks ago, and still no update.
> 
> That's because they'll both be released *today*. ;-)

Apparently not yet as of 19:12 PDT

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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 15/12/2009 21:34, hawker told the world:
> So I just got to wondering if most of us Seamonkey people are just 
> Netscape hold ons that are not comfortable with the FireFox/Thunderbird 
> interface for whatever reason?
> 
> Anyone out there a Seamonkey user who was not a Netscape users?
> As for me I started on Netscape 1.x though 4.6x then skipped to Netscape 
> 7.x (6.x never worked well for me), on to Mozilla Suite and then 
> Seamonkey.  Firefox/Thunderbird never felt comfortable to me since I 
> knew Netscape better and so I stay here with Seamonkey.
> 
> I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on 
> Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but 
> with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting 
> Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so 
> resistant to go over th Firefox.  Seamonkey just isn't getting the 
> support it did when it was still Mozilla Suite unfortunately (a fact I 
> don't want to accept).
> 
> I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though that 
> program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to the point 
> of unusable with poor current standards support.  So perhaps I'm just an 
> anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype BBSs again ;)
> 
> 
> Anyone want to wax philosophical about this?

I'm also a longtime Netscape (from about 1.1, I guess) user, but not too
obsessive about it. I used Portable Firefox + Portable Thunderbird on my
flash drive (my "mobile office," so to speak -- I never liked laptops)
until recently, and I liked them, and some things they did better than
Seamonkey, but I missed the integration.

The main thing, I guess, is that I'm opening links from e-mail all the
time, and it just works better in Seamonkey -- particularly a few years
ago, when I used to leave IE as default browser (otherwise some
IE-dependent software behaved strangely). For instance, you can
Ctrl-click a link from a mail in SM, and it will open on a new tab. You
can't do it in a case-by-case with separate apps -- it's an
all-or-nothing choice.

Multizilla played a large role into holding me to Seamonkey, too. In the
early Firefox days, when Mozilla looked doomed, I tried to find
something that would give me the same sort of options in Firefox and
Thunderbird -- with no success. So I kept on, even though SM 1.x was
looking ever and ever more dated compared to FF. (It wasn't as bad as
the later Netscape 4.x times, when the browser was horribly obsolete and
buggy, and Mozilla was still too crude and buggy, but still, it made me
look at the options from time to time)

Now SM2 brings back the promise of feature parity with Firefox and
Thunderbird -- not quite there yet, but I would say that at least
three-fourths of the difference were recovered, probably more. I'm
Multizilla-less for the time being, but I'm making do with the trunk
improvements and a few extensions -- and there's also a promise of a new
version eventually.

So, it's not so much "why don't I move to Firefox?" but rather "why
would I do it NOW that things are rapidly improving?" I like the feature
set, I'm comfortable with the interface, it fits my workflow better than
separate apps, and most of the stuff I envied about FF and TB are now
available.

I may be a fossil, but I'm not a BLIND fossil. I looked at just about
all other browser at some time or another. I never liked IE, it always
rubbed me the wrong way. Opera has a good features set, but it never
quite gelled for me. Safari left me cold -- they messed with the user
interface in a way that didn't really add anything, just because...
well, because they are Apple. Chrome is interesting, I use it sometimes
(mostly when I'm just checking a quick thing in an older machine, and
don't want to wait for Firefox or Seamonkey to load), but the Mozilla
browsers are still more versatile.

-- 
MCBastos

This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized
use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.

-=-=-
... BOFH excuse #257:
That would be because the software doesn't work.
* TagZilla 0.0661 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org on Seamonkey 2.0
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Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[Rufus]

hawker wrote:
So I just got to wondering if most of us Seamonkey people are just 
Netscape hold ons that are not comfortable with the FireFox/Thunderbird 
interface for whatever reason?


Anyone out there a Seamonkey user who was not a Netscape users?
As for me I started on Netscape 1.x though 4.6x then skipped to Netscape 
7.x (6.x never worked well for me), on to Mozilla Suite and then 
Seamonkey.  Firefox/Thunderbird never felt comfortable to me since I 
knew Netscape better and so I stay here with Seamonkey.


I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on 
Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but 
with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting 
Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so 
resistant to go over th Firefox.  Seamonkey just isn't getting the 
support it did when it was still Mozilla Suite unfortunately (a fact I 
don't want to accept).


I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though that 
program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to the point 
of unusable with poor current standards support.  So perhaps I'm just an 
anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype BBSs again ;)



Anyone want to wax philosophical about this?

Hawker


I stay with it mainly for it's user configurable security features, and 
the fact that I like it for it's integrated browser/mail/usenet suite - 
it's convenient.


But like yourself, I'm beginning to question my loyalty to it - 
particularly in light of the random changes to the interface which 
either deny me the utility I once praised, eliminate it entirely, or 
confuse me as to it's current state after it's alleged "upgrade".


There are a number of enterprise customers I support which still hang 
onto NS (in place of IE) in some situations because of some of that 
aforementioned configurability and functionality that I have personally 
been trying to get to look at Seamonkey (for it's comparable certificate 
handling, strong 128 bit encryption, cookie management, etc.) as an 
update/upgrade...but I'm not really sure I should continue to do that at 
this point.


Some of those customers are now using Firefox in place of NS, but that 
doesn't really get me what I desire - these customers generally use MS 
Outlook, and so the suite concept doesn't sell with them.  The lack of 
status information in the dialog boxes regarding the aforementioned 
attributes is certainly not reassuring to such customers...and then 
there's those stupid tiny buttons...and that's just two starting points 
of departure when it comes to addressing an enterprise user base...


I may start paying more attention the Firefox/Thunderbird solution 
myself...I've been tinkering with TB 3.0 and so far I'm far more pleased 
with it than I have been with SM 2.0.  If Firefox offers the control I 
like(d) in SM, I may just switch.  If it's good enough for corporations, 
it's probably good enough for me.


--
 - Rufus
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[Phillip Jones]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

David Wilkinson wrote:

Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official
version is
(AFAICT) SM 2.0?


But believe I read either in this
forum or perhaps on the SM group, that SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out
the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets. well I've updated to
FF3.5.5 a couple of weeks ago, and still no update.


That's because they'll both be released *today*. ;-)

The people already using 2.0.1 are those who installed the latest 2.0.1
release candidate which now that no new release candidate will be
released, is exactly what will be released as 2.0.1 later today (well
most probably that is, only KaiRo knows for sure). Release candidates
cannot be distinguished from final versions because the last of the
former will always be released as the latter, unchanged.

HTH

Jens


I've had 3.5.5 FF for a week at least as an normal update.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
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Who are Seamonkey's core user base?

[hawker]

So I just got to wondering if most of us Seamonkey people are just 
Netscape hold ons that are not comfortable with the FireFox/Thunderbird 
interface for whatever reason?


Anyone out there a Seamonkey user who was not a Netscape users?
As for me I started on Netscape 1.x though 4.6x then skipped to Netscape 
7.x (6.x never worked well for me), on to Mozilla Suite and then 
Seamonkey.  Firefox/Thunderbird never felt comfortable to me since I 
knew Netscape better and so I stay here with Seamonkey.


I'm asking all this because I'm currently questing why I am staying on 
Seamonkey. I like a few things about it over Firefox/Thunderbird but 
with 2.0 out and many extensions broken or no longer supporting 
Seamonkey - all of which still work in Firefox I'm questing why I'm so 
resistant to go over th Firefox.  Seamonkey just isn't getting the 
support it did when it was still Mozilla Suite unfortunately (a fact I 
don't want to accept).


I'm also still, on some computers, still a Eudora user even though that 
program, with all that is great about it, is getting almost to the point 
of unusable with poor current standards support.  So perhaps I'm just an 
anachronism wishing still for the days of 110baud teletype BBSs again ;)



Anyone want to wax philosophical about this?

Hawker
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Re: setting up email account

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/15/2009 1:44 PM, Martin Freitag wrote:
> Carolyn schrieb:
>> I just downloaded the latest version of Seamonkey but I do not know
>> how to set up my email account.  When it asks for the server
>> information, I don't know where to find that information. Can anybody
>> help me? Carolyn
> 
> It should be listed in the help of your email-provider. Just consult 
> their webpage. If you still can't find it, maybe tell us what your 
> email-provier is.
> regards
> 
> Martin

Also, the OP may want to continue this in mozilla.support.seamonkey,
rather than mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey. Follow-up set.

Carolyn: mozilla.support.seamonkey is the support group. On the other
hand, mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey is used for technical discussions by
the developers.
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[David Wilkinson]

David Wilkinson wrote:
Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official 
version is (AFAICT) SM 2.0?


Thanks all. I got it now. It's the release candidate.

--
David Wilkinson
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Re: Happy with 2.0.1 now (Almost)

[BeeNeR]

On or about 12/15/2009 2:02 PM, Jens Hatlak typed the following:
> BeeNeR wrote:
>> Only two things to complain about:
>> 1.  No quick start button.  I really miss that!
> 
> Gone for good, sorry.
> 
>> 2.  No way to disable having to enter a password when initializing SM
>> without deleting ALL web, password, certificates, etc. information.
> 
> Quoting from the Release Notes:
> 
> "MailNews account password prompts are no longer serial at startup (Bug
> 338549)
> Workaround: If a Master Password is set and you saved your login
> credentials, only one prompt will appear at startup. You can disable
> this new behavior by setting signon.startup.prompt to false in
> about:config."
> 
>> I have nothing on my system that I would not be willing to share with my
>> minister or the FBI.  Unfortunately when I installed SM 2.0 I entered a
>> master password.  There should be a way, assuming the user HAS the
>> master password to deleted it without deleting anything else.
> 
> There is: Edit > Preferences > Privacy & Security > Master Passwords,
> click Change Password..., enter your master password in the Current
> password field, click OK.
> 
>> That said, since I installed SM2 into folders named Seamonkey2, can I
>> delete all folders named Seamonkey?
> 
> Depends on where you have folders named "Seamonkey" and what you put in
> them. ;-) If you mean the SM 1.1.x application directory: You might want
> to check the dictionaries/, plugins/ and searchplugins/ folders and
> initially only move instead of delete but other than that it can go.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Jens
> 

Thank Jens - I mis-understood the entering new password feature.  I
though a new master password *had* to be entered.  And the only other
option was a *reset* which would have wiped out all my stored info.

Did as you suggested and am no longer asked for password (twice)on
starting SM.  Too bad about the 'quick start' feature though.

-- 
Ed

"Amusement is the happiness of those who cannot think."
 -Alexander Pope
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[Leonidas Jones]

David Wilkinson wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

David Wilkinson wrote:

Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official
version is
(AFAICT) SM 2.0?

/snip/


So all these people talking about SM 2.0.1 are using the nightlies? I
think you must be right, but this is not generally apparent from the way
they talk.



Its a release candidate that we were asked to test, should be released 
today I think.


Lee
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[Jens Hatlak]

Phillip Jones wrote:
> David Wilkinson wrote:
>> Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official
>> version is
>> (AFAICT) SM 2.0?
>>
> But believe I read either in this
> forum or perhaps on the SM group, that SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out
> the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets. well I've updated to
> FF3.5.5 a couple of weeks ago, and still no update.

That's because they'll both be released *today*. ;-)

The people already using 2.0.1 are those who installed the latest 2.0.1
release candidate which now that no new release candidate will be
released, is exactly what will be released as 2.0.1 later today (well
most probably that is, only KaiRo knows for sure). Release candidates
cannot be distinguished from final versions because the last of the
former will always be released as the latter, unchanged.

HTH

Jens

-- 
Jens Hatlak 
SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[David Wilkinson]

Phillip Jones wrote:

David Wilkinson wrote:
Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official 
version is

(AFAICT) SM 2.0?

I know about using nighties I used to do that myself to test and 
comment. When the comments went in one ear and out the other I quit 
using nighties. I figured my comments didn't count for anything, so why 
risk damaging my computer for nothing. But believe I read either in this 
forum or perhaps on the SM group, that SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out 
the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets. well I've updated to 
FF3.5.5 a couple of weeks ago, and still no update.


So all these people talking about SM 2.0.1 are using the nightlies? I think you 
must be right, but this is not generally apparent from the way they talk.


--
David Wilkinson
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Re: Happy with 2.0.1 now (Almost)

[Jens Hatlak]

BeeNeR wrote:
> Only two things to complain about:
> 1.  No quick start button.  I really miss that!

Gone for good, sorry.

> 2.  No way to disable having to enter a password when initializing SM
> without deleting ALL web, password, certificates, etc. information.

Quoting from the Release Notes:

"MailNews account password prompts are no longer serial at startup (Bug
338549)
Workaround: If a Master Password is set and you saved your login
credentials, only one prompt will appear at startup. You can disable
this new behavior by setting signon.startup.prompt to false in
about:config."

> I have nothing on my system that I would not be willing to share with my
> minister or the FBI.  Unfortunately when I installed SM 2.0 I entered a
> master password.  There should be a way, assuming the user HAS the
> master password to deleted it without deleting anything else.

There is: Edit > Preferences > Privacy & Security > Master Passwords,
click Change Password..., enter your master password in the Current
password field, click OK.

> That said, since I installed SM2 into folders named Seamonkey2, can I
> delete all folders named Seamonkey?

Depends on where you have folders named "Seamonkey" and what you put in
them. ;-) If you mean the SM 1.1.x application directory: You might want
to check the dictionaries/, plugins/ and searchplugins/ folders and
initially only move instead of delete but other than that it can go.

HTH

Jens

-- 
Jens Hatlak 
SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
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Re: SM2.0 vs 1.1.18

[John]

John Doue wrote:

Paul wrote:

John wrote:
Just re installed 1.1.18 and all the problems I had with SM2.0 
vanished.  It was really annoying using SM2.0 it kept asking for a 
username & password for email accounts. ugly.


I used Netscape 4.08 until a year ago, then went
to SM 1117.  I am still with 1117.
I should be good now until about the year 2014.


I must say, I am surprised you did not at some point upgrade to Netscape 
7.2!


I have had very bad experiences with AOL of I would stay away from 
Netscape.  I did use it from its inception until it was sold.

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Re: Cookies

[chicagofan]

Cedar wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Martin Freitag wrote:

Cedar schrieb:

On a dialup connection, would it be normal to suffer extreme
slowdowns and pauses in the internet connection because of blocking cookies?


Nope.



Any chance this is just seasonal traffic increase due to Christmas
shoppers online? I remember when I was on dial up with AT&T, December
was always a miserable month for me. However, that was a long time ago,
so things may have improved since then.



Well, in general, I doubt if things have improved for us poor ol'
"dialupers", and of course, will not improve any further as its
basically a dead technology.  But, no, it can't be the Christmas
thingit's just way too extreme for that, and I've never noticed that
before on ours, actually.  Since FF seems to be working quite well, and
the, ugh..."other browser" just flies through it all, it's obviously
something with sm, unfortunately.  Oh well, I guess we can survive with
FF until/if SM's next version improves things.



Sorry...  I missed that the "anything goes" other browser is working 
fine and even FF is better.   :)


I don't know the technical explanation for pipelining, just that it is 
supposed to speed up connections, and that I used it.  I would try it as 
suggested by NoOp, and the other things... switching the settings.

bj

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Re: Intermittent incorrect favicon bug

[art]

On 12/14/09 12:23 PM, art wrote:


On 12/14/09 8:43 AM, MCBastos wrote:


 Interviewed by CNN on 14/12/2009 03:05, Rex told the world:

  I've often seen this happen:
  Let's say I have tabs A,B,C in order. Each one displays its own favicon.
  I either open a 3rd tab adjacent to B(I use 'Tabs open relative') but
  before C, or enter a new URL within B. Sometimes the favicon for C gets
  replaced with the one for B.


 I have noticed another, possibly related bug:
 Some bookmarks somehow get the wrong favicon.

 I didn't investigate the matter deeply, but I suspect it might have
 something to do with the "aggressively look for website icons" feature
 -- the one in which Seamonkey looks for a file named favicon.ico on the
 website's root.


For the second issue - this might be related to the fact that the
favicon may be already in the browser's cache. Try flushing the cache
(via preferences/advanced/cache or Manuel Reimer's PrefBar add-on),
reload the page(s) and see if that makes a difference.

It also may depend on whether SM is looking for the default
"favicon.ico" file at the server's root level or whether the web page is
explicitly specifying a favicon file via a  or  statement. Viewing the web page source
will confirm this.

I forgot to add that "browser.chrome.favicons" should be set to "true" 
as well. I've seen unpredictable favicon display if it's set to "false".


--
Art
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Re: SeaMonkey web page Composer

[Phillip Jones]

Phillip Jones wrote:

LDixon wrote:

I'm glad that SeaMonkey has maintained Netscape Composer.

But, I was surprised to find that it hasn't been improved at all, that
I can see.

Here are a few suggestions:
*  Put a scroll bar in the Format/Font menu, for speed.  (I use Ariel
and Verdana a lot!)

*  Put the font options (style, size, etc.) in the tool bar, as one
sees in Word.

*  When inserting images, don't make the the default "Alternate
text" (I *never, ever* use that) - or else don't force making a
choice.

I could come up with other suggestions, but those are a few simple
ones.
Thanks.


If you don't use alt Text  (for images) your website will never ever
pass W3C standards compliance. I use them all the time on my website for
any images. This is so if for whatever reason your image gets lost for
what ever reason the viewers of your site should know *that they* should have
seen and let you know so you can fix it.


making correction above. sorry.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
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Re: SM2 Bugs?

[Phillip Jones]

Phillip Jones wrote:

mcewr wrote:

I have noticed a couple of things since I upgraded to Seamonkey 2.0:
1. The mail in my POP accounts doesn't seem to automatically download at
startup.
2. I can't send large attachments anymore (window stops at 3%).

Does anyone know if these are 2.0 bugs?

Thanks,

Rod

item 1

Edit Menu>  Mail and news groups
go to email account in question
click on Server settings

the look in window for server settings click box next to check for mail
at start up. the also check for new messages every ___ minutes.

I have set 10 minutes but set for any time 10 minutes or more. less than
ten SM spends all its time looking for new messages and slows SM down
considerable.

Item #2 depends upon your ISP and type connection. just recently I I got
a warning about my mailbox was overloaded. Turns out I had huge amount
of hidden saved replies that I could only access through my ISP's Web
mail. I've been careful since to check. I had 18mb of hidden replies.
now its less than 1k of space used. You might be running out of room in
your *ISP's* email account for you.


 making correction above.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
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Re: SeaMonkey web page Composer

[Phillip Jones]

LDixon wrote:

I'm glad that SeaMonkey has maintained Netscape Composer.

But, I was surprised to find that it hasn't been improved at all, that
I can see.

Here are a few suggestions:
*  Put a scroll bar in the Format/Font menu, for speed.  (I use Ariel
and Verdana a lot!)

*  Put the font options (style, size, etc.) in the tool bar, as one
sees in Word.

*  When inserting images, don't make the the default "Alternate
text" (I *never, ever* use that) - or else don't force making a
choice.

I could come up with other suggestions, but those are a few simple
ones.
Thanks.


If you don't use alt Text  (for images) your website will never ever 
pass W3C standards compliance. I use them all the time on my website for 
any images. This is so if for whatever reason your image gets lost for 
what ever reason the viewers of your site should know thatey should have 
seen and let you know so you can fix it.


--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: SM2 Bugs?

[Phillip Jones]

mcewr wrote:

I have noticed a couple of things since I upgraded to Seamonkey 2.0:
1. The mail in my POP accounts doesn't seem to automatically download at
startup.
2. I can't send large attachments anymore (window stops at 3%).

Does anyone know if these are 2.0 bugs?

Thanks,

Rod

item 1

Edit Menu > Mail and news groups
go to email account in question
click on Server settings

the look in window for server settings click box next to check for mail 
at start up. the also check for new messages every ___ minutes.


I have set 10 minutes but set for any time 10 minutes or more. less than 
ten SM spends all its time looking for new messages and slows SM down 
considerable.


Item #2 depends upon your ISP and type connection. just recently I I got 
a warning about my mailbox was overloaded. Turns out I had huge amount 
of hidden saved replies that I could only access through my ISP's Web 
mail. I've been careful since to check. I had 18mb of hidden replies. 
now its less than 1k of space used. You might be running out of room in 
your Sips email account for you.


--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Bing as SM2 search engine preference

[Phillip Jones]

NoOp wrote:

On 12/14/2009 01:08 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:

NoOp wrote:

On 12/13/2009 08:53 PM, JAS wrote:

Is there a way to add Bing to the search engine preference so it can be
set as default?



You could modify one of the seamonkey/searchplugins .src files to use bing.


Note here is the message you receive in SM 2 when you attempt to load
Bing add on:

Sorry, you need a Mozilla-based browser (such as Firefox) to install a
search plugin. According to MS apparently SeaMonkey isn't a mozilla product.



I didn't say add a Bing add-on; I stated "You could modify one of the
seamonkey/searchplugins .src files to use bing". Look in the folder that
I mentioned&  you'll see the .src files for the search engine plugins.

Here's one:

# Mozilla/Google plug-in by amitp+mozi...@google.com

http://www.google.com/search";
update="http://www.google.com/mozilla/google.src";
updateCheckDays=1
queryEncoding="utf-8"
queryCharset="utf-8"
















Copy and modify that to adjust for Bing&  you're good to go.

Heck, you guys do more with chrome mods, user.js mods etc., for your
fancy themes than the few minutes it would take to do a bing.src file&
add a bing.gif. Then to change the default, all you really need to do is
change your browser search preferences to use Bing instead of whatever.




I've read they are supposed to be getting  away from src 's and strictly 
addons .


I've worked around the problem I've just gone to Bing site the dragged 
and dropped on to bookmarks bar I'll wait for the people to make the 
Bing add on work for SM 2 if not I can use it anyway.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Confused about SM 2.0.1

[Phillip Jones]

David Wilkinson wrote:

Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official version is
(AFAICT) SM 2.0?

I know about using nighties I used to do that myself to test and 
comment. When the comments went in one ear and out the other I quit 
using nighties. I figured my comments didn't count for anything, so why 
risk damaging my computer for nothing. But believe I read either in this 
forum or perhaps on the SM group, that SM2.0.1 was supposed to come out 
the same exact time FF3.5.5 was to hit the streets. well I've updated to 
FF3.5.5 a couple of weeks ago, and still no update.


--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T."If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
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Confused about SM 2.0.1

[David Wilkinson]

Why do I see all the references to SM 2.0.1 when the latest official version is 
(AFAICT) SM 2.0?


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David Wilkinson
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Happy with 2.0.1 now (Almost)

[BeeNeR]

Since my previous problems had disappeared, without any real solution,
I'm pretty happy with 2.0.1.

Only two things to complain about:
1.  No quick start button.  I really miss that!
2.  No way to disable having to enter a password when initializing SM
without deleting ALL web, password, certificates, etc. information.

I have nothing on my system that I would not be willing to share with my
minister or the FBI.  Unfortunately when I installed SM 2.0 I entered a
master password.  There should be a way, assuming the user HAS the
master password to deleted it without deleting anything else.

That said, since I installed SM2 into folders named Seamonkey2, can I
delete all folders named Seamonkey?

-- 
Ed

Everyone complains of his memory, no one of his judgment.
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Re: SM2.0 vs 1.1.18

[John Doue]

Paul wrote:

John wrote:
Just re installed 1.1.18 and all the problems I had with SM2.0 
vanished.  It was really annoying using SM2.0 it kept asking for a 
username & password for email accounts. ugly.


I used Netscape 4.08 until a year ago, then went
to SM 1117.  I am still with 1117.
I should be good now until about the year 2014.


I must say, I am surprised you did not at some point upgrade to Netscape 
7.2!


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Re: Threading don't work for one mail address

[Martin Freitag]

Arne schrieb:


As I don't have TB, so that's not possible for me to do. But that editor
could be useful also in SM.



Maybe time to file an enhancement bug if it doesn't already exist? ;-)
regards

Martin
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Re: Chatzilla & charset

[Martin Freitag]

Ray_Net schrieb:


Nobody can help me ?
Is it enough that i post this(as it is now) to bugzilla ?



Looks like you have run an acceptable amount of tests ;-)
regards

Martin
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