Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

NFN Smith wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>> Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-22 12:58 (UTC-0400):
>>
>>> I'm not writing for nerds but instead am trying to keep it brief for
>>> the Chase
>>> CTO. How about if I use the following from Wikipedia?
>>
>>> "SeaMonkey is a free and open-source Internet suite. It is the
>>> continuation of
>>> the former Mozilla Application Suite, based on the same source code,
>>> which
>>> itself grew out of Netscape Communicator and formed the base of
>>> Netscape 6 and
>>> Netscape 7."
>>
>> I'd consider it a glaring omission to not mention the guts of what makes
>> Firefox Firefox is the same Gecko rendering engine and the same Necko
>> networking apparatus from which SM is built, current considerations
>> rather than ancient history. Differences between FF and SM browsing
>> competence are entirely in their UIs, which have no relevance to any web
>> site.
> 
> I would agree with that one.
> 
> Start at the bottom with the Gecko rendering engine -- *that's* the standard.
> Mention of Netscape in this way is technically correct, but it's a 
> distraction,
> especially since Netscape (by name) is long gone.
> 
> The critical thing to communicate is that web page functionality is based on
> Gecko's rendering capacities, and that the difference between Firefox and
> Seamonkey (and other Gecko browsers, such as Waterfox) is in the UI; things 
> like
> where to find specific configuration settings, or support particular 
> extensions.
> 
> It's also noteworthy that both Chrome and IE t both do a measure of spoofing 
> of
> Gecko in their UA strings, where the strings begin with "Mozilla/5.0", and
> include "like Gecko".
> 
> 
> Arnie -- did you see the notes that I posted, following my experiments with
> browser spoofing? Although a follow-up poster indicated problems with 
> PaleMoon,
> the only place where I had problems was with the default Firefox UI. Much to 
> my
> surprise, when I showed a UA string with Camino (abandoned for several years,
> and where it show that it's based of FF 2.x), I had no problems. Despite the
> report of problems with Palemoon without spoofing, I'm still wondering if 
> Chase
> is searching specifically looking for Seamonkey by name (perhaps along with
> searching for the Netscape name).
> 
> In that context, the historical roots of Gecko are not only irrelevant for the
> question at hand, but mention of Netscape may be the trigger that causes
> whomever reads what you have to say to dismiss the remainder of the content,
> entirely.
> 
> That said, the one place where the difference between FF and other Gecko
> browsers is significant is in interaction with Chase's customer support 
> people.
> If a support person that the user is using Firefox, then if the tech suspects
> config problems, he/she knows exactly how to instruct the user to navigate to 
> a
> particular setting -- inspect, and change, if necessary. For Seamonkey, the 
> tech
> knows that the setting is there, but isn't conversant on the navigation to get
> there.
> 
> As a support tech myself, I have this problem in reverse. In Seamonkey, I know
> where to find nearly anything quickly.  I use Firefox only occasionally, and 
> not
> enough where I've really mastered all the navigation of the UI settings. I can
> offset that some with tools such as PrefBar, but if I'm working in a profile
> that's close to default (especially on somebody else's machine), I often end 
> up
> having to do a measure of trial-and-error to get through Firefox (or for that
> matter, Thunderbird)'s rendition of Tools -> Options, rather than Seamonkey's
> Edit -> Preferences.
> 
> Smith
> 
Yes, I did see that. Thanks for posting that information.
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[NFN Smith]

Felix Miata wrote:

Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-22 12:58 (UTC-0400):


I'm not writing for nerds but instead am trying to keep it brief for
the Chase
CTO. How about if I use the following from Wikipedia?



"SeaMonkey is a free and open-source Internet suite. It is the
continuation of
the former Mozilla Application Suite, based on the same source code,
which
itself grew out of Netscape Communicator and formed the base of
Netscape 6 and
Netscape 7."


I'd consider it a glaring omission to not mention the guts of what makes
Firefox Firefox is the same Gecko rendering engine and the same Necko
networking apparatus from which SM is built, current considerations
rather than ancient history. Differences between FF and SM browsing
competence are entirely in their UIs, which have no relevance to any web
site.


I would agree with that one.

Start at the bottom with the Gecko rendering engine -- *that's* the 
standard. Mention of Netscape in this way is technically correct, but 
it's a distraction, especially since Netscape (by name) is long gone.


The critical thing to communicate is that web page functionality is 
based on Gecko's rendering capacities, and that the difference between 
Firefox and Seamonkey (and other Gecko browsers, such as Waterfox) is in 
the UI; things like where to find specific configuration settings, or 
support particular extensions.


It's also noteworthy that both Chrome and IE t both do a measure of 
spoofing of Gecko in their UA strings, where the strings begin with 
"Mozilla/5.0", and include "like Gecko".



Arnie -- did you see the notes that I posted, following my experiments 
with browser spoofing? Although a follow-up poster indicated problems 
with PaleMoon, the only place where I had problems was with the default 
Firefox UI. Much to my surprise, when I showed a UA string with Camino 
(abandoned for several years, and where it show that it's based of FF 
2.x), I had no problems. Despite the report of problems with Palemoon 
without spoofing, I'm still wondering if Chase is searching specifically 
looking for Seamonkey by name (perhaps along with searching for the 
Netscape name).


In that context, the historical roots of Gecko are not only irrelevant 
for the question at hand, but mention of Netscape may be the trigger 
that causes whomever reads what you have to say to dismiss the remainder 
of the content, entirely.


That said, the one place where the difference between FF and other Gecko 
browsers is significant is in interaction with Chase's customer support 
people. If a support person that the user is using Firefox, then if the 
tech suspects config problems, he/she knows exactly how to instruct the 
user to navigate to a particular setting -- inspect, and change, if 
necessary. For Seamonkey, the tech knows that the setting is there, but 
isn't conversant on the navigation to get there.


As a support tech myself, I have this problem in reverse. In Seamonkey, 
I know where to find nearly anything quickly.  I use Firefox only 
occasionally, and not enough where I've really mastered all the 
navigation of the UI settings. I can offset that some with tools such as 
PrefBar, but if I'm working in a profile that's close to default 
(especially on somebody else's machine), I often end up having to do a 
measure of trial-and-error to get through Firefox (or for that matter, 
Thunderbird)'s rendition of Tools -> Options, rather than Seamonkey's 
Edit -> Preferences.


Smith

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Felix Miata]

Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-22 12:58 (UTC-0400):


I'm not writing for nerds but instead am trying to keep it brief for the Chase
CTO. How about if I use the following from Wikipedia?



"SeaMonkey is a free and open-source Internet suite. It is the continuation of
the former Mozilla Application Suite, based on the same source code, which
itself grew out of Netscape Communicator and formed the base of Netscape 6 and
Netscape 7."


I'd consider it a glaring omission to not mention the guts of what makes 
Firefox Firefox is the same Gecko rendering engine and the same Necko 
networking apparatus from which SM is built, current considerations rather 
than ancient history. Differences between FF and SM browsing competence are 
entirely in their UIs, which have no relevance to any web site.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

Desiree wrote:
> On 7/20/2016 5:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Desiree wrote:
>>> On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 Ray_Net wrote:
> Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:
>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>>> So the best default User agent string could be:
>>> : Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
>>> same as Firefox/41.0
>>>
>>> then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
>>> recognized as SM by everybody.
>>
>> You're thinking like a human being, silly!
>>
>> Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
>> also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
>> -- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
>> Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.
>>
> I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
> in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
> "word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"
>
> So could be better to have the default string this:
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
> as Firefox/41.0
> instead of this:
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
> SeaMonkey/2.38
>
> Is my idea a bad idea ?

 If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
 can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
 fine with SeaMonkey.

>>> For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I 
>>> have
>>> Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
>>> string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
>>> Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.
>>
>> I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their 
>> Secure
>> Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to 
>> me
>> in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
>> longer support Netscape" :-)
>>
>>Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?
>>
>> The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
>> Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to 
>> the
>> Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to
>> Netscape
>> Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
>> Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
>> browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
>> Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a 
>> direct
>> descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained 
>> by
>> Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.
>>
>> The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being 
>> used
>> as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
>> string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The 
>> only
>> difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
>> adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the
>> same.  User
>> Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
>> computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string,
>> “Gecko/20100101” is
>> always present no matter what operating system is being used.
>>
>> I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users 
>> of
>> the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the 
>> other
>> major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
>> Schwab, etc, etc
>>
>> User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey
>>
>> Firefox
>>
>>   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
>>
>> Seamonkey
>>
>>Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
>> SeaMonkey/2.40
>>
>>
> Did you send all that ERRONEOUS information about Netscape becoming SeaMonkey 
> to
> Chase?  I hope not although Chase might not know any better than you do the
> history of Netscape, Mozilla Browser, buttmonkey or "politically correct"
> SeaMonkey.   You need to educate yourself.  Start with my reply to
> mozilla.general newsgroup thread "Is the Mozilla Era Over?"

I'm not writing for nerds but instead am trying to keep it brief for the Chase
CTO. How about if I use the following from Wikipedia?

"SeaMonkey is a free and open-source Internet suite. It is the continuation of
the former Mozilla Application Suite, based on the same source code, which
itself grew out of Netscape Communicator and formed the base of Netscape 6 and
Netscape 7."
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Desiree]

On 7/21/2016 12:33 PM, NFN Smith wrote:

Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-21 08:10 (UTC-0400):


Daniel wrote:



And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it might also
be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently cannot get to the
Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing, could/would also work if Chase
sniffed for the Gecko process, rather than for a particular Browser Name.



Thanks for the ideas. Sniffing for Gecko is the key.


Absolutely. It doesn't do any good to demand explicit support for
Seamonkey, if that doesn't apply to other Gecko-based browsers.
However, I have more notes on that (see below)



Sniffing for Gecko would be merely a major improvement, still an arbitrary
denier of any browser name which to the site's authors is unfamiliar. Sniffing
for functionality is the idea approach. Sniffing out functionality is entirely
browser name agnostic.


Thanks. I would like to include a link in my correspondence which explains
"Sniffing out functionality". Would the following be a good example:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh273397%28v=vs.85%29.aspx



A good link.

Traditionally, I point people to http://geckoisgecko.org/.  The links
contained there (especially
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/dhtml-utopia-modern-web-design/4 and
http://archive.bclary.com/xbProjects-docs/geckoGetRv/) are good, but
GeckoIsGecko is aged enough that I think that page does more harm than
good.  All the projects there are listed with equal prominence, but the
only ones that I believe are active are Firefox, Seamonkey, and
K-Meleon.  As far as I'm aware, all the others are abandoned. And
several I've never heard of, except in the context of this page.

There's no mention of more current Gecko-based projects, such as
Waterfox, PaleMoon (now shifted to Goanna, a Gecko fork), or Lunascape
(which allows the user to select rendering by Gecko, Trident or WebKit).
   It really doesn't help to try to convince somebody like Chase that
Seamonkey is a viable (and used) product, when it's presented alongside
dead projects like Camino, Prism or Fennec.


In the meantime, I ran a some tests at https://chaseonline.chase.com,
using both spoofing from PrefBar, as well as installed browsers.  I found:

1) If I try a login with a standard Seamonkey Profile (and default user
agent strings), Chase complains about my browser.  UA string that I used
is: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40

2) Using PrefBar to spoof, I have no problem logging in, if the UA is
showing:

* default Firefox:

 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0

* Chrome:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/49.0.2623.87 Safari/537.36

* Opera

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/49.0.2623.75 Safari/537.36 OPR/36.0.2130.32



3) I also found that when I am spoofing, after I get past the login
dialog, I can change the UA back to the Seamonkey default, and there's
no apparent problems with further access.

4) I tried a login with PaleMoon 32,, and found no problems with login.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/49.0.2623.87 Safari/537.36


5) I downloaded and ran a portable version of Waterfox  on my main
working machine. When I logged in, Chase complained that it didn't
recognize my IP, and required emailing of an access code. Once I put
that in, everything else was fine.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:47.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/47.0.1 
Waterfox/47.0.1


6) I did a login with Lunascape, where I set the browser to render with
Gecko, and didn't have problems.  I don't know Lunascape well enough to
know where to see the raw UA (and I didn't try to access a web server I
have access to, to check logs), but Lunascape reports: "Gecko Plugin
Version 38.8.0.27543 / Gecko 38.8.0". I ran this one on a virtual
machine. Running from a virtual machine, a complaint by Chase about an
unrecognized IP, but no problems after I entered the access code.

7) I tried a login with Epic (a Chrome derivative) -- I don't have the
raw UA, but Epic reports that it's running version 48.0.2553.0. As with
Lunascape, I was working from my VM, and Chase complained about an
unrecognized IP. After entering the emailed access code, no problems
with interacting with the site.

I should note that with a successful login, in each case, I get a "My
Accounts" display at https://chaseonline.chase.com/MyAccounts.aspx.


This is interesting, that the only place where I'm seeing browser
compatibility issues is if the UA is explicitly showing "Seamonkey".  No
problems with other Seamonkey spoofing other browsers (both Gecko and
non-Gecko), or use of other Gecko-derived browsers. Or in the case of
Epic, a Chrome-derived browser.

Just for the heck of it, I decided to see wh

Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Desiree]

On 7/20/2016 5:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Desiree wrote:

On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?


If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.


For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I have
Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.


I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their Secure
Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to me
in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
longer support Netscape" :-)

   Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to the
Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to 
Netscape
Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a direct
descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained by
Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.

The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being used
as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The only
difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
adds “Seamonkey/2.40� at the end. Other than that, they are both the same.  
User
Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string, 
“Gecko/20100101� is
always present no matter what operating system is being used.

I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users of
the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the other
major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
Schwab, etc, etc

User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

Firefox

  Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0

Seamonkey

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
SeaMonkey/2.40


Did you send all that ERRONEOUS information about Netscape becoming 
SeaMonkey to Chase?  I hope not although Chase might not know any better 
than you do the history of Netscape, Mozilla Browser, buttmonkey or 
"politically correct" SeaMonkey.   You need to educate yourself.  Start 
with my reply to mozilla.general newsgroup thread "Is the Mozilla Era 
Over?"
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Daniel]

On 21/07/2016 10:10 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:



Thanks for the ideas. Sniffing for Gecko is the key. Since Dr Michael (Chase
CTO) received his PhD in Computer Science from Australian National University,
I'm sure he will have no trouble in understanding the concept.  :-)


Ah!! A.N.U. graduate  so he was part of "the Brain Drain", then!! :-(

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.40 Build identifier: 20160120202951

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.38 Build identifier: 20150903203501

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Felix Miata]

NFN Smith composed on 2016-07-21 15:33 (UTC-0700):
...

I don't know Lunascape well enough to know where to see the raw UA

...

7) I tried a login with Epic (a Chrome derivative) -- I don't have the
raw UA


http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html won't give you one that's raw 
enough?

--
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[NFN Smith]

Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-21 08:10 (UTC-0400):


Daniel wrote:



And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it might also
be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently cannot get to the
Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing, could/would also work if Chase
sniffed for the Gecko process, rather than for a particular Browser Name.



Thanks for the ideas. Sniffing for Gecko is the key.


Absolutely. It doesn't do any good to demand explicit support for 
Seamonkey, if that doesn't apply to other Gecko-based browsers. 
However, I have more notes on that (see below)




Sniffing for Gecko would be merely a major improvement, still an arbitrary
denier of any browser name which to the site's authors is unfamiliar. Sniffing
for functionality is the idea approach. Sniffing out functionality is entirely
browser name agnostic.


Thanks. I would like to include a link in my correspondence which explains
"Sniffing out functionality". Would the following be a good example:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh273397%28v=vs.85%29.aspx



A good link.

Traditionally, I point people to http://geckoisgecko.org/.  The links 
contained there (especially 
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/dhtml-utopia-modern-web-design/4 and 
http://archive.bclary.com/xbProjects-docs/geckoGetRv/) are good, but 
GeckoIsGecko is aged enough that I think that page does more harm than 
good.  All the projects there are listed with equal prominence, but the 
only ones that I believe are active are Firefox, Seamonkey, and 
K-Meleon.  As far as I'm aware, all the others are abandoned. And 
several I've never heard of, except in the context of this page.


There's no mention of more current Gecko-based projects, such as 
Waterfox, PaleMoon (now shifted to Goanna, a Gecko fork), or Lunascape 
(which allows the user to select rendering by Gecko, Trident or WebKit). 
 It really doesn't help to try to convince somebody like Chase that 
Seamonkey is a viable (and used) product, when it's presented alongside 
dead projects like Camino, Prism or Fennec.



In the meantime, I ran a some tests at https://chaseonline.chase.com, 
using both spoofing from PrefBar, as well as installed browsers.  I found:


1) If I try a login with a standard Seamonkey Profile (and default user 
agent strings), Chase complains about my browser.  UA string that I used 
is: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40


2) Using PrefBar to spoof, I have no problem logging in, if the UA is 
showing:


* default Firefox:

 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0

* Chrome:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/49.0.2623.87 Safari/537.36

* Opera

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/49.0.2623.75 Safari/537.36 OPR/36.0.2130.32



3) I also found that when I am spoofing, after I get past the login 
dialog, I can change the UA back to the Seamonkey default, and there's 
no apparent problems with further access.


4) I tried a login with PaleMoon 32,, and found no problems with login.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/49.0.2623.87 Safari/537.36


5) I downloaded and ran a portable version of Waterfox  on my main 
working machine. When I logged in, Chase complained that it didn't 
recognize my IP, and required emailing of an access code. Once I put 
that in, everything else was fine.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:47.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/47.0.1 
Waterfox/47.0.1


6) I did a login with Lunascape, where I set the browser to render with 
Gecko, and didn't have problems.  I don't know Lunascape well enough to 
know where to see the raw UA (and I didn't try to access a web server I 
have access to, to check logs), but Lunascape reports: "Gecko Plugin 
Version 38.8.0.27543 / Gecko 38.8.0". I ran this one on a virtual 
machine. Running from a virtual machine, a complaint by Chase about an 
unrecognized IP, but no problems after I entered the access code.


7) I tried a login with Epic (a Chrome derivative) -- I don't have the 
raw UA, but Epic reports that it's running version 48.0.2553.0. As with 
Lunascape, I was working from my VM, and Chase complained about an 
unrecognized IP. After entering the emailed access code, no problems 
with interacting with the site.


I should note that with a successful login, in each case, I get a "My 
Accounts" display at https://chaseonline.chase.com/MyAccounts.aspx.



This is interesting, that the only place where I'm seeing browser 
compatibility issues is if the UA is explicitly showing "Seamonkey".  No 
problems with other Seamonkey spoofing other browsers (both Gecko and 
non-Gecko), or use of other Gecko-derived browsers. Or in the case of 
Epic, a Chrome-derived browser.


Just for the heck of it, I decided t

Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/21/2016 at 2:16 AM, Daniel's prodigious digits fired off:

On 21/07/2016 3:15 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/20/2016 11:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Desiree wrote:

On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.

You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even
if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread
worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend
to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word"
which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the
last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?

If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase
customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My
bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.


For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at
all. I have
Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and
chose this
string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.

I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used
their Secure
Message center to send the following message. They say they will be
back to me
in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably
"We no
longer support Netscape" :-)

Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

The original and most popular internet web browser in the early
1990’s was
Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was
added to the
Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed
to Netscape
Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by
the Mozilla
Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla
produced a
browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that
time
Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey
is a direct
descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be
maintained by
Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as
FireFox.

The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser
being used
as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the
User Agent
string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from
Seamonkey. The only
difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from
Seamonkey
adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the
same.  User
Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used
by the
computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string,
“Gecko/20100101” is
always present no matter what operating system is being used.

I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept
the users of
the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as
do the other
major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo,
Charles
Schwab, etc, etc

User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

Firefox

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0

Seamonkey

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0
SeaMonkey/2.40




Actually it is SeaMonkey and not maintained by Mozilla, but the
SeaMonkey
Council, a small group of dedicated volunteers, that has lost some of
its long
time contributors, just like Thunderbird.

Nice letter though.


Thanks for the correction on SeaMonkey Council. If my communication
with their
message center doesn't work, I will send a copy of the above to Dr Gavin
Michael, Chief Technology Officer at Chase at their NY HQ.


And if I were to be picky picky, I would state that the correct User
Agent string for SeaMonkey 2.40 was ...

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.40

If you go to Edit->Prefs->Advanced->HTTP Networking, you can select to
"Advertise Firefox Capability" in the User Agent String, which adds the
Firefox/43.0 bit.

And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it
might also be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently
cannot get to the Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing,
could/would also work if Chase sniffed for the Gecko process, rather
than for a particular Browser Name.



And include these links as well:

Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Lee]

On 7/21/16, Arnie Goetchius  wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>> Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-21 08:10 (UTC-0400):
>>
>>> Daniel wrote:
>>
 And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it
 might also
 be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently cannot get
 to the
 Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing, could/would also work if
 Chase
 sniffed for the Gecko process, rather than for a particular Browser
 Name.
>>
>>> Thanks for the ideas. Sniffing for Gecko is the key.
>>
>> Sniffing for Gecko would be merely a major improvement, still an
>> arbitrary
>> denier of any browser name which to the site's authors is unfamiliar.
>> Sniffing
>> for functionality is the idea approach. Sniffing out functionality is
>> entirely
>> browser name agnostic.
>
> Thanks. I would like to include a link in my correspondence which explains
> "Sniffing out functionality". Would the following be a good example:
>
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh273397%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
>
> or would there be a better link?

"better" is a matter of opinion; I prefer
https://www.w3.org/community/webed/wiki/Optimizing_content_for_different_browsers:_the_RIGHT_way

which links to
https://modernizr.com/

Regards,
Lee
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

Felix Miata wrote:
> Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-21 08:10 (UTC-0400):
> 
>> Daniel wrote:
> 
>>> And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it might 
>>> also
>>> be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently cannot get to 
>>> the
>>> Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing, could/would also work if Chase
>>> sniffed for the Gecko process, rather than for a particular Browser Name.
> 
>> Thanks for the ideas. Sniffing for Gecko is the key.
> 
> Sniffing for Gecko would be merely a major improvement, still an arbitrary
> denier of any browser name which to the site's authors is unfamiliar. Sniffing
> for functionality is the idea approach. Sniffing out functionality is entirely
> browser name agnostic.

Thanks. I would like to include a link in my correspondence which explains
"Sniffing out functionality". Would the following be a good example:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh273397%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

or would there be a better link?
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Felix Miata]

Arnie Goetchius composed on 2016-07-21 08:10 (UTC-0400):


Daniel wrote:



And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it might also
be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently cannot get to the
Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing, could/would also work if Chase
sniffed for the Gecko process, rather than for a particular Browser Name.



Thanks for the ideas. Sniffing for Gecko is the key.


Sniffing for Gecko would be merely a major improvement, still an arbitrary 
denier of any browser name which to the site's authors is unfamiliar. 
Sniffing for functionality is the idea approach. Sniffing out functionality 
is entirely browser name agnostic.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

Daniel wrote:
> On 21/07/2016 3:15 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 07/20/2016 11:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
 Desiree wrote:
> On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>> Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:
 Ray_Net wrote:

> So the best default User agent string could be:
> : Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
> same as Firefox/41.0
>
> then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
> recognized as SM by everybody.
 You're thinking like a human being, silly!

 Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
 also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
 -- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
 Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.

>>> I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
>>> in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
>>> "word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"
>>>
>>> So could be better to have the default string this:
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
>>> as Firefox/41.0
>>> instead of this:
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
>>> SeaMonkey/2.38
>>>
>>> Is my idea a bad idea ?
>> If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
>> can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
>> fine with SeaMonkey.
>>
> For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I 
> have
> Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
> string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
> Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.
 I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their 
 Secure
 Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back 
 to me
 in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
 longer support Netscape" :-)

 Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

 The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
 Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added 
 to
 the
 Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to 
 Netscape
 Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the 
 Mozilla
 Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
 browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
 Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a 
 direct
 descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be 
 maintained by
 Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.

 The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being 
 used
 as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
 string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The 
 only
 difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from 
 Seamonkey
 adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the same. 
 User
 Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
 computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string,
 “Gecko/20100101” is
 always present no matter what operating system is being used.

 I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the 
 users of
 the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the 
 other
 major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
 Schwab, etc, etc

 User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

 Firefox

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
 Firefox/43.0

 Seamonkey

 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
 Firefox/43.0
 SeaMonkey/2.40


>>>
>>> Actually it is SeaMonkey and not maintained by Mozilla, but the SeaMonkey
>>> Council, a small group of dedicated volunteers, that has lost some of its 
>>> long
>>> time contributors, just like Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> Nice letter though.
>>>
>> Thanks for the correction on SeaMonkey Council. If my communication with 
>> their
>> message center doesn't work, I will send a copy of the above to Dr Gavin
>> Michael, Chief Technology Officer at Chase at their NY HQ.
>>
> And if I were to be picky picky, I would state that the correct User Agent
> string for SeaMonkey 2.40 was ...
>

Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Daniel]

On 21/07/2016 3:15 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/20/2016 11:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Desiree wrote:

On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.

You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?

If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.


For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I have
Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.

I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their Secure
Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to me
in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
longer support Netscape" :-)

Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to the
Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to Netscape
Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a direct
descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained by
Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.

The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being used
as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The only
difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the same.  User
Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string, “Gecko/20100101” is
always present no matter what operating system is being used.

I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users of
the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the other
major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
Schwab, etc, etc

User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

Firefox

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0

Seamonkey

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
SeaMonkey/2.40




Actually it is SeaMonkey and not maintained by Mozilla, but the SeaMonkey
Council, a small group of dedicated volunteers, that has lost some of its long
time contributors, just like Thunderbird.

Nice letter though.


Thanks for the correction on SeaMonkey Council. If my communication with their
message center doesn't work, I will send a copy of the above to Dr Gavin
Michael, Chief Technology Officer at Chase at their NY HQ.

And if I were to be picky picky, I would state that the correct User 
Agent string for SeaMonkey 2.40 was ...


Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.40

If you go to Edit->Prefs->Advanced->HTTP Networking, you can select to 
"Advertise Firefox Capability" in the User Agent String, which adds the 
Firefox/43.0 bit.


And Arnie, if you do actually send in a real "Pen and Ink" letter, it 
might also be worthwhile mentioning that other browsers, which currently 
cannot get to the Chase site because of the incorrect sniffing, 
could/would also work if Chase sniffed for the Gecko process, rather 
than for a particular Browser Name.


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.40 Build identifi

Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Ray_Net]

Arnie Goetchius wrote on 20/07/2016 19:15:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/20/2016 11:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Desiree wrote:

On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.

You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?

If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.


For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I have
Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.

I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their Secure
Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to me
in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
longer support Netscape" :-)

Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to the
Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to Netscape
Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a direct
descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained by
Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.

The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being used
as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The only
difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the same.  User
Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string, “Gecko/20100101” is
always present no matter what operating system is being used.

I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users of
the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the other
major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
Schwab, etc, etc

User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

Firefox

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0

Seamonkey

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
SeaMonkey/2.40



Actually it is SeaMonkey and not maintained by Mozilla, but the SeaMonkey
Council, a small group of dedicated volunteers, that has lost some of its long
time contributors, just like Thunderbird.

Nice letter though.


Thanks for the correction on SeaMonkey Council. If my communication with their
message center doesn't work, I will send a copy of the above to Dr Gavin
Michael, Chief Technology Officer at Chase at their NY HQ.

Let us know the final result 
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

WaltS48 wrote:
> On 07/20/2016 11:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Desiree wrote:
>>> On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 Ray_Net wrote:
> Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:
>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>>> So the best default User agent string could be:
>>> : Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
>>> same as Firefox/41.0
>>>
>>> then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
>>> recognized as SM by everybody.
>> You're thinking like a human being, silly!
>>
>> Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
>> also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
>> -- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
>> Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.
>>
> I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
> in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
> "word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"
>
> So could be better to have the default string this:
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
> as Firefox/41.0
> instead of this:
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
> SeaMonkey/2.38
>
> Is my idea a bad idea ?
 If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
 can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
 fine with SeaMonkey.

>>> For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I 
>>> have
>>> Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
>>> string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
>>> Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.
>> I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their 
>> Secure
>> Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to 
>> me
>> in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
>> longer support Netscape" :-)
>>
>>Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?
>>
>> The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
>> Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to 
>> the
>> Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to 
>> Netscape
>> Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
>> Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
>> browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
>> Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a 
>> direct
>> descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained 
>> by
>> Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.
>>
>> The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being 
>> used
>> as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
>> string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The 
>> only
>> difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
>> adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the same.  
>> User
>> Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
>> computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string, 
>> “Gecko/20100101” is
>> always present no matter what operating system is being used.
>>
>> I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users 
>> of
>> the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the 
>> other
>> major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
>> Schwab, etc, etc
>>
>> User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey
>>
>> Firefox
>>
>>   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
>>
>> Seamonkey
>>
>>Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
>> SeaMonkey/2.40
>>
>>
> 
> Actually it is SeaMonkey and not maintained by Mozilla, but the SeaMonkey
> Council, a small group of dedicated volunteers, that has lost some of its long
> time contributors, just like Thunderbird.
> 
> Nice letter though.
> 
Thanks for the correction on SeaMonkey Council. If my communication with their
message center doesn't work, I will send a copy of the above to Dr Gavin
Michael, Chief Technology Officer at Chase at their NY HQ.
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[NFN Smith]

Larry wrote:




How does one go about changing the user agent string in SM2.40?  Could
not easily find that information.


There's a couple of ways, as noted elsewhere in this thread.

1) You can do it permanently, via changes in prefs.js:

J. Weaver Jr. noted:


"about:config",

create string "general.useragent.override.chase.com"

set it to your current useragent string _without_ the "SeaMonkey".
(mine is "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0")


2) Use an extension, either PrefBar or UserAgentSwitcher. Personally, I 
prefer PrefBar, partially because it seems easier to use, and partly, 
because I like some of the other options offered, of getting to 
preferences quickly.


I do know that with PrefBar, the default strings offered are *very* old, 
and you generally have to go in and edit to match something reasonably 
current.  I'm currently using:


Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0

I also occasionally use a setting when I need to spoof that I'm running 
a Mac:


Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/45.0


Although I don't normally use them, I do have definitions for IE 11, 
Opera and Chrome, as well as Firefox and Seamonkey in Linux. At Chase, I 
wouldn't be surprised if spoofing a valid Chrome or IE string would get 
you through, as well.


You can find a rather vast array of valid UA settings at 
http://www.zytrax.com/tech/web/browser_ids.htm.  There's a separate page 
just for Firefox: http://www.zytrax.com/tech/web/firefox-history.html.


If you're using PrefBar, in the configs, you need to make sure that the 
User Agent item has been dragged into the Enabled Items pane.  Then 
double-click on User Agent.  There's enough examples there that it 
shouldn't be difficult to get a setup that you want.



I contacted Chase Tech Support today and was told this was the first
time they heard there was a problem and I was the first caller.  If we
want Chase to fix the problem we have to get their attention with enough
calls to tie up their web tech support phone lines.  Don't forget to
escalate to a supervisor.


Chase's support is likely a call center that has hundreds of people 
working for them (and entirely possible that they work from multiple 
locations).  Probably only a handful have even heard of Seamonkey, much 
less complaints about Seamonkey/Gecko support issues.  Until/unless the 
majority of service reps have seen at least one complaint, this is an 
issue that's pretty much under their radar.


And for the ones that have fielded this particular complaint, it 
wouldn't surprise me if a high-level supervisor informs them that the 
policy is "Firefox, Chrome, IE and Safari. Period." As has been 
discussed before, the problem is that some technical higher-up at Chase 
only knows brand name, and as far as they're concerned, they don't want 
to be spending time supporting anything else, even a browser that has 
all the capacities of Firefox, if it doesn't have the Firefox brand name 
on it.


Given that Chase has been a problem in this area for years, it's 
possible that the person who made the decision isn't even at Chase 
anymore, but that successor(s) have decided that they're unwilling to 
consider revisions.


My suspicion is that Chase was one of the longer holdouts in the era of 
"IE only", and their support of more than one browser is reluctant. With 
the growing share of Google Chrome (and decline of Firefox), I think the 
chances of Chase dropping support for Firefox are higher than convincing 
them to allow Seamonkey and other Gecko browsers that don't explicitly 
identify themselves as Firefox. To Chase, doing things any differently 
is merely an exercise in facilitating the cranks who insist on doing 
things their own way, and to them, it's perceived as considerable cost, 
and nearly zero corresponding benefit.


For those of us who choose to work outside the mainstream of "what 
everybody else is doing", whether it's running a different browser, 
using a different operating system, using different tools (think: 
LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office, or using a non-Adobe PDF 
reader, etc.) we are more likely to hit compatibility issues, when 
others aren't willing to affirm/celebrate the choices we've made.  Sure, 
it's possible to push back (as with Chase, making repeated pushes at 
customer support), but there comes a point where it's not really worth 
the effort.


With Chase, it seems that they're unwilling to change.  Thus, for us, 
the choice is either using a method that works (either spoofing or 
allowing them to dictate which browser we use for interaction with 
them), or finding another bank to do business with.


I really wish it was different, but when you're working in a 
profit-oriented system, there's a lot of players with a variety of 
agendas, and the altruism that comes from things like open source 
software and choosing the tools you want are pretty low on 

Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[WaltS48]

On 07/20/2016 11:54 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Desiree wrote:

On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.

You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?

If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.


For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I have
Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.

I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their Secure
Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to me
in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
longer support Netscape" :-)

   Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to the
Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to Netscape
Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a direct
descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained by
Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.

The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being used
as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The only
difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the same.  User
Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string, “Gecko/20100101” is
always present no matter what operating system is being used.

I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users of
the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the other
major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
Schwab, etc, etc

User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

Firefox

  Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0

Seamonkey

   Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
SeaMonkey/2.40




Actually it is SeaMonkey and not maintained by Mozilla, but the 
SeaMonkey Council, a small group of dedicated volunteers, that has lost 
some of its long time contributors, just like Thunderbird.


Nice letter though.

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Britsburgh 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

Desiree wrote:
> On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>> Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:
 Ray_Net wrote:

> So the best default User agent string could be:
> : Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
> same as Firefox/41.0
>
> then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
> recognized as SM by everybody.

 You're thinking like a human being, silly!

 Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
 also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
 -- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
 Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.

>>> I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
>>> in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
>>> "word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"
>>>
>>> So could be better to have the default string this:
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
>>> as Firefox/41.0
>>> instead of this:
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
>>> SeaMonkey/2.38
>>>
>>> Is my idea a bad idea ?
>>
>> If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
>> can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
>> fine with SeaMonkey.
>>
> For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. I have
> Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and chose this
> string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101
> Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.

I logged into my Chase account (with Firefox, of course) and used their Secure
Message center to send the following message. They say they will be back to me
in one business day. I am looking forward to what they say. Probably "We no
longer support Netscape" :-)

  Why Won’t Chase Accept Seamonkey as a Legitimate Browser?

The original and most popular internet web browser in the early 1990’s was
Netscape Navigator. When the ability to send and receive emails was added to the
Netscape Navigator’s capabilities, the browser’s  name was  changed to Netscape
Communicator.  Netscape Communicator was eventually taken over by the Mozilla
Foundation where in addition to Netscape Communicator,  Mozilla produced a
browser only without email capability and called it Firefox. At that time
Netscape Communicator was renamed Seamonkey.  In essence, Seamonkey is a direct
descendant of the original Netscape browser.  It continues to be maintained by
Mozilla and the browser portion of Seamonkey works the same way as FireFox.

The problem is that when the Chase web software looks at the browser being used
as defined by the User Agent  string shown below, it accepts the User Agent
string from Firefox but rejects the User Agent string from Seamonkey. The only
difference between the two User Agent strings is that the one from Seamonkey
adds “Seamonkey/2.40” at the end. Other than that, they are both the same.  User
Agent strings will also vary depending on the operating system used by the
computer. However, the common part of the User Agent string, “Gecko/20100101” is
always present no matter what operating system is being used.

I hope that the people who run your website will once again accept the users of
the descendant of the original web browser now called Seamonkey as do the other
major financial institutions such as American Express, Wells Fargo, Charles
Schwab, etc, etc

User Agent String Samples for Firefox and Seamonkey

Firefox

 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0

Seamonkey

  Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0
SeaMonkey/2.40


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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Daniel]

On 20/07/2016 11:07 AM, Larry wrote:

NFN Smith wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?


If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.



The idea is good, but it's essentially a twist on "advertise Firefox
compatibility". Depending on the sniffer, it _may_ work to change the
order, so that Firefox is last.  However, because Chase is committed to
brand name of browser, it looks like the presence of _anything_ in a UA
string that's not stock Firefox, that will cause them to complain about
an unsupported browser.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of complaining to Chase customer
service is likely to change how they handle things.

Smith


How does one go about changing the user agent string in SM2.40?  Could
not easily find that information.

I contacted Chase Tech Support today and was told this was the first
time they heard there was a problem and I was the first caller.  If we
want Chase to fix the problem we have to get their attention with enough
calls to tie up their web tech support phone lines.  Don't forget to
escalate to a supervisor.

Larry


Several posters in this thread have spoken to Chase Tech Support ... 
even higher levels. Could people be ringing different parts of Chase 
Tech Support, speaking to different bits of Chase Tech Support, so it 
always seems you are the first to be reporting any problems for SeaMonkey??


What number are people 'phoning to report the problem?? Can they obtain 
a case reference number when they do report to Higher Up Tech?? And post 
it here, maybe, so others can quote the same Reference.


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.40 Build identifier: 20160120202951

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.38 Build identifier: 20150903203501

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Larry]

NFN Smith wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?


If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.



The idea is good, but it's essentially a twist on "advertise Firefox
compatibility". Depending on the sniffer, it _may_ work to change the
order, so that Firefox is last.  However, because Chase is committed to
brand name of browser, it looks like the presence of _anything_ in a UA
string that's not stock Firefox, that will cause them to complain about
an unsupported browser.

Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of complaining to Chase customer
service is likely to change how they handle things.

Smith

How does one go about changing the user agent string in SM2.40?  Could 
not easily find that information.


I contacted Chase Tech Support today and was told this was the first 
time they heard there was a problem and I was the first caller.  If we 
want Chase to fix the problem we have to get their attention with enough 
calls to tie up their web tech support phone lines.  Don't forget to 
escalate to a supervisor.


Larry
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[NFN Smith]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?


If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.



The idea is good, but it's essentially a twist on "advertise Firefox 
compatibility". Depending on the sniffer, it _may_ work to change the 
order, so that Firefox is last.  However, because Chase is committed to 
brand name of browser, it looks like the presence of _anything_ in a UA 
string that's not stock Firefox, that will cause them to complain about 
an unsupported browser.


Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of complaining to Chase customer 
service is likely to change how they handle things.


Smith

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[myhrddin]

On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 3:36:06 PM UTC-5, Philip wrote:
> So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:
> 
> https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade
> 
> My choices are:
> 
> > Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)
> >
> > Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)
> >
> > Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)
> >
> > Safari >
> 
> I'll complain to, but what a bother

I have been complaining to them about this, on Twitter via their Support 
whatever, sent email to them and called Chase several times.  This is not 
acceptable.  SeaMonkey is the DeFacto Heir of the first browser and I think 
it's a little more secure than FireFox even.

I have also sent an in-depth email to Amazon, who through Chase, supplies their 
Amazon Rewards Visa card.  I'm unable to log in now to manage my credit card.  
BUT, I am able to log into my Chase checking account from the same page, now, 
why is that.?

You may think "Why Bother" but, if enough of us make waves then, something will 
be done.
I have been making plenty of waves but, too, almost felt like I was alone in 
the pool.
I'm en-heartened to know that others are going through this nonsense too.

Please make them hear you.  They have a Twitter account for customer support 
so, be sure to go there, follow 'em and let them know about your problems with 
their new "security" bits on their site.

This is too important I believe.  SeaMonkey is one of the most secure publicly 
available browsers out and I don't want things like this action by Chase to 
cause it to be lessened into obsolescence by coders ignorance of what it is.
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Desiree]

On 7/18/2016 10:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?


If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is
fine with SeaMonkey.

For me, as a Chase customer, SeaMonkey cannot be in the string at all. 
I have Windows 8.0 Pro and am using User Agent Switcher extension and 
chose this string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:40.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/40.0.  It works fine.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"

So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same
as Firefox/41.0
instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0
SeaMonkey/2.38

Is my idea a bad idea ?


If it works, it's good; if it doesn't, it's bad. Only a Chase customer 
can tell us. I can't log in because I don't bank with them. My bank is 
fine with SeaMonkey.


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Ray_Net]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 19/07/2016 00:59:

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it 
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked 
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be 
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


I just thinked that the sniffer will only use the last "word" which is 
in this case "Firefox/41.0" instead of in the normal UAstring the last 
"word" is "SeaMonkey/2.38"


So could be better to have the default string this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 same 
as Firefox/41.0

instead of this:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/41.0 
SeaMonkey/2.38


Is my idea a bad idea ?
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Ray_Net wrote:


So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38
same as Firefox/41.0

then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and
recognized as SM by everybody.


You're thinking like a human being, silly!

Some sniffers reject a UA string that contains "SeaMonkey" even if it 
also contains "Firefox." That's why the solution in this thread worked 
-- because Chase's sniffer is that stupid. You have to pretend to be 
Firefox AND pretend not to be SeaMonkey.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Ray_Net]

WaltS48 wrote on 17/07/2016 23:30:

On 07/17/2016 04:13 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote on 16/07/2016 17:37:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!

Why SM did not put this string as his identification by DEFAULT  


Without the need of an extension 


Because it is SeaMonkey, not Firefox.



So the best default User agent string could be:
: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.38 
same as Firefox/41.0


then it will be recognized as FF by the bad sniffing method and 
recognized as SM by everybody.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Daniel]

On 18/07/2016 10:05 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/18/2016 07:51 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 18/07/2016 7:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/17/2016 04:13 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote on 16/07/2016 17:37:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!


Why SM did not put this string as his identification by DEFAULT 

Without the need of an extension 


Because it is SeaMonkey, not Firefox.


... and if the Internet sniffed correctly, it would accept SeaMonkey
and PaleMoon, and , and , and  (or just accept Gecko!!)



If the Internet sniffed correctly, it would feature sniff, not browser
sniff.


I'll bow to your greater knowledge, Walt! But yes, that;s as I 
understand it!


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.40 Build identifier: 20160120202951

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.38 Build identifier: 20150903203501

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[WaltS48]

On 07/18/2016 07:51 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 18/07/2016 7:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/17/2016 04:13 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote on 16/07/2016 17:37:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!

Why SM did not put this string as his identification by DEFAULT  


Without the need of an extension 


Because it is SeaMonkey, not Firefox.

... and if the Internet sniffed correctly, it would accept SeaMonkey 
and PaleMoon, and , and , and  (or just accept Gecko!!)




If the Internet sniffed correctly, it would feature sniff, not browser 
sniff.



--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Three Rivers Regatta 
Little Italy Days 
Pittsburgh Renaissance Festival 
Britsburgh 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Daniel]

On 18/07/2016 7:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/17/2016 04:13 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote on 16/07/2016 17:37:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!


Why SM did not put this string as his identification by DEFAULT  
Without the need of an extension 


Because it is SeaMonkey, not Firefox.

... and if the Internet sniffed correctly, it would accept SeaMonkey and 
PaleMoon, and , and , and  (or just accept Gecko!!)


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.40 Build identifier: 20160120202951

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.38 Build identifier: 20150903203501

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[WaltS48]

On 07/17/2016 04:13 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote on 16/07/2016 17:37:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!


Why SM did not put this string as his identification by DEFAULT  
Without the need of an extension 


Because it is SeaMonkey, not Firefox.


--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Three Rivers Regatta 
Little Italy Days 
Pittsburgh Renaissance Festival 
Britsburgh 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Ray_Net]

Rick Merrill wrote on 16/07/2016 17:37:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!


Why SM did not put this string as his identification by DEFAULT  
Without the need of an extension 
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Arnie Goetchius]

NFN Smith wrote:\
===snipped===

> From my own PrefBar settings, I currently have:
> 
>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
> 
> It's a little old, but if spoofing will work at Chase this one should be 
> adequate.
> 

That works for me. Many thanks.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Rick Merrill]

On 7/16/2016 11:37 AM, Rick Merrill wrote:

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!



sO I got in and then they asked me to fill out a SURVEY ABOUT THE WEB 
SITE! This is easier than phone contact! Also, the sit had 4 w3c errors:


screen shots (avail for limited time):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u34mwyuqiy35s8e/CHASE1.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3bcqgtvsijq77u/CHASE2.png?dl=0
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Rick Merrill]

On 7/15/2016 2:22 PM, J. Weaver Jr. wrote:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0


Thank you!  It works!

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Desiree]

On 7/16/2016 3:31 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/16/2016 09:18 AM, Desiree wrote:

On 7/15/2016 4:09 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/15/2016 at 7:26 AM, Desiree's prodigious digits fired off:

On 7/11/2016 10:36 AM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I
get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother


I just got off the phone with Chase websupport.  I filed a formal
complaint but it was like pulling teeth to get the rep to do it.

I get the browser upgrade page on SeaMonkey 2.40 and Pale Moon 25.8.1
(x64).  On Fx 45.2 ESR, I have a cookie problem that doesn't get solved
even when Chase puts cookies on Fx.

I was told that FIREFOX 24 is the requirement and that has NOT been
changed.  I sharply questioned that as Pale Moon is based off Fx 24 and
it worked fine at Chase until now and SeaMonkey 2.40 is based on Fx 43
and it doesn't work now at Chase.  She said that she has been taking a
lot of calls from Fx users who even with CURRENT Fx version cannot
access Chase site.  She said that those users have no problems
accessing
Chase site using Chrome and, thus, that means the problem is a Mozilla
problem not a Chase problem. Chase is blameless and if if I didn't want
to use Chrome then well, I am not required by Chase to access their
website...ever!  So, I should just forget accessing it at all.  Sigh.


You ought to change banks.


I certainly would if Chase was the bank I had my checking account at
but it is not.  I have had a credit card with them since the
mid-90's.  It's actually my best card. FIXED low interest rate (my
other credit cards are variable rate and higher rates) and high credit
limit so I don't want to get rid of it.  I vividly recall when Chase
FINALLY first got on line as they were one of the very last large
banks to get online.  They had a mess from the beginning which, over
the years, improved a lot except for their insisting on only a very
few browsers.  I've had this problem before with them and SeaMonkey.



Snail mail still works for account announcements, bills and payments.

Yes, but mailing checks is very dangerous here as either homes have 
unlocked mail boxes at the curb and mail is frequently stolen or in 
apts/condos with locked mailboxes even in "nice" neighborhoods the boxes 
get broken into.  So, you have to mail the check in town and being in 
Hawaii there is too much uncertainty that it will arrive in time.  I 
keep an old fashioned corded landline to pay credit cards but still 
sometimes I need to access my account at a bank online. Chase has by far 
the best FICO 8 information I have seen from all my cards.  Theirs is 
outstanding.  It's not just your current FICO 8 score or a line or two 
about the score. Chases's analysis goes into a lot of depth...much more 
than other banks do with their cards.  So, I want to be able to access 
my account there monthly (or at least several times a year) for the 
excellent information.


I just got SeaMonkey to work fine there.  I told User Agent Switcher to 
fake as Fx 40 on Windows 10 and pppffft...off flew the problems.   SM 
was already faking as Fx  but I guess not "thoroughly enough" until I 
used UAS which I had sort of forgotten about until it was mentioned in 
one of the threads here on this subject.  I have UAS on Pale Moon also 
so I imagine it will work there too although part of the problem on PM 
and Fx is uMatrix which causes unique problems at Chase (since the new 
website) and only Chase that I was reading about last night.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[WaltS48]

On 07/16/2016 09:18 AM, Desiree wrote:

On 7/15/2016 4:09 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/15/2016 at 7:26 AM, Desiree's prodigious digits fired off:

On 7/11/2016 10:36 AM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I 
get:


https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother


I just got off the phone with Chase websupport.  I filed a formal
complaint but it was like pulling teeth to get the rep to do it.

I get the browser upgrade page on SeaMonkey 2.40 and Pale Moon 25.8.1
(x64).  On Fx 45.2 ESR, I have a cookie problem that doesn't get solved
even when Chase puts cookies on Fx.

I was told that FIREFOX 24 is the requirement and that has NOT been
changed.  I sharply questioned that as Pale Moon is based off Fx 24 and
it worked fine at Chase until now and SeaMonkey 2.40 is based on Fx 43
and it doesn't work now at Chase.  She said that she has been taking a
lot of calls from Fx users who even with CURRENT Fx version cannot
access Chase site.  She said that those users have no problems 
accessing

Chase site using Chrome and, thus, that means the problem is a Mozilla
problem not a Chase problem. Chase is blameless and if if I didn't want
to use Chrome then well, I am not required by Chase to access their
website...ever!  So, I should just forget accessing it at all.  Sigh.


You ought to change banks.

I certainly would if Chase was the bank I had my checking account at 
but it is not.  I have had a credit card with them since the 
mid-90's.  It's actually my best card. FIXED low interest rate (my 
other credit cards are variable rate and higher rates) and high credit 
limit so I don't want to get rid of it.  I vividly recall when Chase 
FINALLY first got on line as they were one of the very last large 
banks to get online.  They had a mess from the beginning which, over 
the years, improved a lot except for their insisting on only a very 
few browsers.  I've had this problem before with them and SeaMonkey.



Snail mail still works for account announcements, bills and payments.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Desiree]

On 7/15/2016 4:09 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/15/2016 at 7:26 AM, Desiree's prodigious digits fired off:

On 7/11/2016 10:36 AM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother


I just got off the phone with Chase websupport.  I filed a formal
complaint but it was like pulling teeth to get the rep to do it.

I get the browser upgrade page on SeaMonkey 2.40 and Pale Moon 25.8.1
(x64).  On Fx 45.2 ESR, I have a cookie problem that doesn't get solved
even when Chase puts cookies on Fx.

I was told that FIREFOX 24 is the requirement and that has NOT been
changed.  I sharply questioned that as Pale Moon is based off Fx 24 and
it worked fine at Chase until now and SeaMonkey 2.40 is based on Fx 43
and it doesn't work now at Chase.  She said that she has been taking a
lot of calls from Fx users who even with CURRENT Fx version cannot
access Chase site.  She said that those users have no problems accessing
Chase site using Chrome and, thus, that means the problem is a Mozilla
problem not a Chase problem. Chase is blameless and if if I didn't want
to use Chrome then well, I am not required by Chase to access their
website...ever!  So, I should just forget accessing it at all.  Sigh.


You ought to change banks.

I certainly would if Chase was the bank I had my checking account at but 
it is not.  I have had a credit card with them since the mid-90's.  It's 
actually my best card. FIXED low interest rate (my other credit cards 
are variable rate and higher rates) and high credit limit so I don't 
want to get rid of it.  I vividly recall when Chase FINALLY first got on 
line as they were one of the very last large banks to get online.  They 
had a mess from the beginning which, over the years, improved a lot 
except for their insisting on only a very few browsers.  I've had this 
problem before with them and SeaMonkey.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[chokito]

Test with User Agent from Microsoft Internet Explorer 11:

general.useragent.override.chase.com;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Trident/7.0; 
rv:11.0) like Gecko

general.useragent.site_specific_overrides;true
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Lemuel Johnson]

On 7/15/2016 11:55 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 7/11/2016 1:36 PM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother



Complain via a letter (US Postal Service, NOT E-mail) to:
Mr. James Dimon, CEO
JPMorgan Chase & Co.
270 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017

In your letter, try to avoid significant technical details.  Merely
assert that SeaMonkey has the same internal capabilities as Firefox,
including accessing the Internet, handling secure Web sites, and
displaying Web pages.  NO, DO NOT indicate how this is accomplished (too
much detail).

Also indicate that, if this problem is not resolved soon, you will be
forced to move your account to another bank that does accept access by
SeaMonkey.  If you know for sure what banks indeed accept SeaMonkey,
name them in your letter.  The larger the competitor of Chase, the better.

It is quite unlikely that Dimon will actually read your letter.
However, someone in authority to address the issue will be tasked to
respond.



On July 7 I visited the websites of the 10 largest American banks:

1. JP Morgan Chase
2. Bank of America
3. Wells Fargo
4. Citigroup
5. U. S. Bancorp
6. PNC Financial
7. Capital One
8. BB&T
9. SunTrust
10. Fifth Third Bancorp

Chase blocked entry to the site, Bank of America posted a warning but 
worked.  The other eight were unaffected by my use of SeaMonkey (latest 
release).


I'm astounded that a company as large as Chase employs web developers 
that would do something this ridiculous.


Lem Johnson
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Danny Kile]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 7/11/2016 1:36 PM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother



Complain via a letter (US Postal Service, NOT E-mail) to:
Mr. James Dimon, CEO
JPMorgan Chase & Co.
270 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017

In your letter, try to avoid significant technical details.  Merely
assert that SeaMonkey has the same internal capabilities as Firefox,
including accessing the Internet, handling secure Web sites, and
displaying Web pages.  NO, DO NOT indicate how this is accomplished (too
much detail).

Also indicate that, if this problem is not resolved soon, you will be
forced to move your account to another bank that does accept access by
SeaMonkey.  If you know for sure what banks indeed accept SeaMonkey,
name them in your letter.  The larger the competitor of Chase, the better.

It is quite unlikely that Dimon will actually read your letter.
However, someone in authority to address the issue will be tasked to
respond.



One bank that has NO problems with SeaMonkey is Wells Fargo, I have been 
banking with then since the beginning of time.


Just in case you need a reference or looking to switch banks.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[J. Weaver Jr.]

Again, the easiest solution:

"about:config",

create string "general.useragent.override.chase.com"

set it to your current useragent string _without_ the "SeaMonkey" (mine 
is "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0")


End of problem.

No, it's probably not as internally satisfying as angry snailmail 
letters or changing banks, but it's quick and easy and works.  -JW

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[David E. Ross]

On 7/11/2016 1:36 PM, Philip wrote:
> 
> So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:
> 
> https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade
> 
> My choices are:
> 
>> Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)
>>
>> Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)
>>
>> Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)
>>
>> Safari >
> 
> I'll complain to, but what a bother
> 

Complain via a letter (US Postal Service, NOT E-mail) to:
Mr. James Dimon, CEO
JPMorgan Chase & Co.
270 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017

In your letter, try to avoid significant technical details.  Merely
assert that SeaMonkey has the same internal capabilities as Firefox,
including accessing the Internet, handling secure Web sites, and
displaying Web pages.  NO, DO NOT indicate how this is accomplished (too
much detail).

Also indicate that, if this problem is not resolved soon, you will be
forced to move your account to another bank that does accept access by
SeaMonkey.  If you know for sure what banks indeed accept SeaMonkey,
name them in your letter.  The larger the competitor of Chase, the better.

It is quite unlikely that Dimon will actually read your letter.
However, someone in authority to address the issue will be tasked to
respond.

-- 
David E. Ross
.

Is it true that Donald Trump refuses to reveal his
income tax returns because he uses so many questionable
loopholes that he pays no taxes?  See
.
 Even if those
loopholes are legal, Trump might be too embarrassed to
admit he pays no taxes.
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[NFN Smith]

Desiree wrote:



I'll complain to, but what a bother


I just got off the phone with Chase websupport.  I filed a formal
complaint but it was like pulling teeth to get the rep to do it.

I get the browser upgrade page on SeaMonkey 2.40 and Pale Moon 25.8.1
(x64).  On Fx 45.2 ESR, I have a cookie problem that doesn't get solved
even when Chase puts cookies on Fx.

I was told that FIREFOX 24 is the requirement and that has NOT been
changed.  I sharply questioned that as Pale Moon is based off Fx 24 and
it worked fine at Chase until now and SeaMonkey 2.40 is based on Fx 43
and it doesn't work now at Chase.  She said that she has been taking a
lot of calls from Fx users who even with CURRENT Fx version cannot
access Chase site.  She said that those users have no problems accessing
Chase site using Chrome and, thus, that means the problem is a Mozilla
problem not a Chase problem. Chase is blameless and if if I didn't want
to use Chrome then well, I am not required by Chase to access their
website...ever!  So, I should just forget accessing it at all.  Sigh.



I feel your pain, but as noted in another thread, Chase doesn't care. 
For browser handling, they've chosen to be ignorant, and all they're 
focusing is on the brand name that users see.  Seamonkey isn't Firefox, 
and there's nothing you (or any of the rest of us) that's going to make 
them change their minds. You and I know that sniffing for "Gecko" is the 
solution, but in the eyes of Chase's management, that's too geeky for 
them to address.  And unfortunately, they've gone so far as to demand 
Firefox by name, where the Seamonkey approach of "advertise Firefox 
compatibility" gets ignored.


At this point you have three options:

1) Use PrefBar or UserAgentSwitcher to show a full Firefox UA string. In 
the past, I've done that with Chase, and not had problems, although it's 
been a couple of years since I've needed to interact with Chase. I 
prefer PrefBar, and I have it set where I can select the spoofing I 
need, when I need it. (For what it's worth, I also sometimes use 
spoofing if I'm downloading Mac software for my downloads collection -- 
some sites that have both Windows and Mac versions of tools will resort 
to sniffing and automatically download the version for the platform they 
detect.  Thus, if I'm wanting to get a Mac version for my downloads 
collection, I have to change the UA, so that it shows that I'm running 
from a Mac, rather than Windows).


Since I haven't tried Chase recently, I can't guarantee that spoofing 
will work, but it's worth a try.


From my own PrefBar settings, I currently have:


Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0


It's a little old, but if spoofing will work at Chase this one should be 
adequate.


2) Swallow your pride, and use a prescribed browser for your 
interactions with Chase.


On my Seamonkey installation, I have it tweaked radically enough between 
use of aggressive cookie handling, AdBlock Plus and NoScript, that there 
are some sites that I just can't get to. Sometimes, it's easier to 
simply concede that my setting aren't working, and launch a different 
browser for that, rather than trying to fight through a bunch of 
whitelisting.


3) Change banks. Chase is one of those mega-corporations that if you 
leave (even if you tell them you're leaving, and why), they really don't 
care. You don't generate enough revenue for them that you're worth the 
bother. They may not tell you directly, but if you leave, their attitude 
is going to be much closer to "don't let the door hit you on the way 
out", rather than falling at your feet, begging you to stay.


We live in a world where "what's hot", "what's trending, etc." governs a 
lot of what happens. For those of us that choose to use Seamonkey, we've 
chosen to swim against the current, by doing something different. And 
the corporate world is mostly unwilling to expend effort and resources 
to facilitate that.


Smith

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/15/2016 at 7:26 AM, Desiree's prodigious digits fired off:

On 7/11/2016 10:36 AM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother


I just got off the phone with Chase websupport.  I filed a formal
complaint but it was like pulling teeth to get the rep to do it.

I get the browser upgrade page on SeaMonkey 2.40 and Pale Moon 25.8.1
(x64).  On Fx 45.2 ESR, I have a cookie problem that doesn't get solved
even when Chase puts cookies on Fx.

I was told that FIREFOX 24 is the requirement and that has NOT been
changed.  I sharply questioned that as Pale Moon is based off Fx 24 and
it worked fine at Chase until now and SeaMonkey 2.40 is based on Fx 43
and it doesn't work now at Chase.  She said that she has been taking a
lot of calls from Fx users who even with CURRENT Fx version cannot
access Chase site.  She said that those users have no problems accessing
Chase site using Chrome and, thus, that means the problem is a Mozilla
problem not a Chase problem. Chase is blameless and if if I didn't want
to use Chrome then well, I am not required by Chase to access their
website...ever!  So, I should just forget accessing it at all.  Sigh.


You ought to change banks.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they 
still grow, only to be troubled and insecure?

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Desiree]

On 7/11/2016 10:36 AM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother


I just got off the phone with Chase websupport.  I filed a formal 
complaint but it was like pulling teeth to get the rep to do it.


I get the browser upgrade page on SeaMonkey 2.40 and Pale Moon 25.8.1 
(x64).  On Fx 45.2 ESR, I have a cookie problem that doesn't get solved 
even when Chase puts cookies on Fx.


I was told that FIREFOX 24 is the requirement and that has NOT been 
changed.  I sharply questioned that as Pale Moon is based off Fx 24 and 
it worked fine at Chase until now and SeaMonkey 2.40 is based on Fx 43 
and it doesn't work now at Chase.  She said that she has been taking a 
lot of calls from Fx users who even with CURRENT Fx version cannot 
access Chase site.  She said that those users have no problems accessing 
Chase site using Chrome and, thus, that means the problem is a Mozilla 
problem not a Chase problem. Chase is blameless and if if I didn't want 
to use Chrome then well, I am not required by Chase to access their 
website...ever!  So, I should just forget accessing it at all.  Sigh.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Felix Miata]

WaltS48 composed on 2016-07-13 08:26 (UTC-0400):


Felix Miata wrote:



JAS composed on 2016-07-12 20:26 (UTC-0600):



I use Win XP and SM 2.40 and have put
general.useragent.override.chase.com;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 into about:config but still can not
connect to my chase account, I can sign in but am directed to an upgrade
page. Is the user agent OK??



43.0 is 7 months old. Why not try the current one, 47.0?



Because there is no release SeaMonkey built on Gecko 47.0.


What does that have to do with anything? Gecko 47.0 exists in Firefox 47, 
while a release of SM >2.40 is long overdue. The site might be requiring a 
minimum Gecko or FF version >43.0. newer than SM 2.40. If seen Gecko/Firefox 
vesion reporting at 65.0 working.



If a user would like to try an experimental build there is a Windows
2.45b1 based on Gecko 48
,
but it probably won't work either.



It appears they are also skipping the 2.44 release??

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[WaltS48]

On 07/13/2016 12:00 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

JAS composed on 2016-07-12 20:26 (UTC-0600):


I use Win XP and SM 2.40 and have put
general.useragent.override.chase.com;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 into about:config but still can not
connect to my chase account, I can sign in but am directed to an upgrade
page. Is the user agent OK??


43.0 is 7 months old. Why not try the current one, 47.0?



Because there is no release SeaMonkey built on Gecko 47.0.

If a user would like to try an experimental build there is a Windows 
2.45b1 based on Gecko 48 
, 
but it probably won't work either.


It appears they are also skipping the 2.44 release???

--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix 

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Felix Miata]

JAS composed on 2016-07-12 20:26 (UTC-0600):


I use Win XP and SM 2.40 and have put
general.useragent.override.chase.com;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 into about:config but still can not
connect to my chase account, I can sign in but am directed to an upgrade
page. Is the user agent OK??


43.0 is 7 months old. Why not try the current one, 47.0?
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[JAS]

WaltS48 wrote:

On 07/11/2016 04:36 PM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother



Your not the first to have a problem



and





I use Win XP and SM 2.40 and have put
general.useragent.override.chase.com;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; 
rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 into about:config but still can not 
connect to my chase account, I can sign in but am directed to an upgrade 
page. Is the user agent OK??


JAS


--
   You either teach people to treat you with dignity and respect, or 
you don't. This means you are partly responsible for the mistreatment 
that you get at the hands of someone else.

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Re: Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[WaltS48]

On 07/11/2016 04:36 PM, Philip wrote:


So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother



Your not the first to have a problem 



and 




--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix 

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Chase bank site is excluding Seamonkey

[Philip]

So today, after using seamonkey for a years with Chase bank site I get:

https://www.chase.com/services/browser-upgrade

My choices are:


Internet Explorer > (download the latest version.) (Opens Overlay)

Firefox > (download the latest version) (Opens Overlay)

Chrome > (download the lastest version) (Opens Overlay)

Safari >


I'll complain to, but what a bother
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