Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
Bill Spikowski wrote: hawker wrote: As a side note: I hate to complain here. I find most of the complaining here to be unwarranted. To read this forum when SM went from 1.x to 2.0 the sky was falling. Most of the show stoppers I hear were issues I never saw, or felt were not a big deal. So most of the gloom and doom I read here I felt was just over reacting on peoples part. Example the changes to the forum manager were really not that big a deal. That seems to have changed for me in 2.2. I now see several odd behaviors It's amazing how differently users react to these changes. I'm glad the loss of the form manager didn't affect you, whereas it was a deal-killer for me. I skipped 2.0 and 2.1 for that single reason. Did you try the form filler extension? That dropped the pain level to annoying, although a few people keep 1.1.x versions just for forms, since they have to fill in the same form with any of a dozen or so data sets. Yet my recent switch from 1.1.19 to 2.2, while far from pain-free, has been a wonderful improvement for me, in ways too numerous to mention. Forms are still a problem, but I've had zero stability problems and truly appreciate most of the enhancements that I've tried so far. I take it your use of address book is modest. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We are not out of the woods yet, but we know the direction and have taken the first step. The steps are many, but finite in number, and if we persevere we will reach our destination. -me, 2010 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
WLS wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble, but I want SeaMonkey to do what all modern browsers are starting to do, such as HTML5, CSS3, 3D, Web video without Flash support and more. As Jens Hatlak so correctly observed, there may well be sound /technical/ reasons for wanting to make changes to Seamonkey : I think the point Robert was trying to make was not so much that we wanted to match other browsers there but to support an open standard for search engines (OpenSearch) that is widely used and has superseded the older one (Sherlock). This is also reflected on search engine selection sites such as addons.mozilla.org and mycroft.mozdev.org. Before version 2.1, SeaMonkey prevented users from using most of the alternatives listed there. I would certainly concur w.r.t. CSS3, 'though for reasons that are not relevant here, I am far less concerned about the other desiderata that you mention. This is rather different to simply slavishly emulating (or anticipating) what the competition are already doing or are about to do. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) schrieb: This is rather different to simply slavishly emulating (or anticipating) what the competition are already doing or are about to do. Well, before (with the old search plugin implementation) we slavishly emulated what Apple had done a long time ago, and now we have switched to an open standard that is in wide use. Unfortunately, that standard has no solution for a non-standard feature we have been using. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
hawker wrote: As a side note: I hate to complain here. I find most of the complaining here to be unwarranted. To read this forum when SM went from 1.x to 2.0 the sky was falling. Most of the show stoppers I hear were issues I never saw, or felt were not a big deal. So most of the gloom and doom I read here I felt was just over reacting on peoples part. Example the changes to the forum manager were really not that big a deal. That seems to have changed for me in 2.2. I now see several odd behaviors in the browser (most which go away with a close app and re-open). The mail client, which as always been pretty much bug free, now has a ton of bugs. That said 2.2 has had the most regression bugs, lost features and new bugs of any version I have seen since before 1.0. I hope this new rapid release is not causing SM quality to suffer and this is just a bad build that we will get past. What is the feeling of the development team on this build or is this just the build where the issues have finally gotten to areas that affect me? I echo these sentiments. Throughout the evolution of Seamonkey, right up to and including V2.0.14, I have felt that each new release has represented a significant improvement. With the advent of 2.2 (I bypassed 2.1; Seamonkey did not even tell me it was available), I no longer feel this -- I do not understand the rationale for the changes, do not understand why it is so buggy (compared to previous versions), do not understand the haste with which it was apparently released. It is almost as if Seamonkey is starting to follow the same route as recent Microsoft operating systems -- I see the analogies as follows : Seamonkey Microsoft O/S 2.0.14 Windows/XP;SP2 (needs SP3 to address security concerns) 2.2 Vista (rushed out, too much attention to cosmetics and too little to detail) 2.x Windows 7 : better than Vista, better in some ways than XP, but also poorer than XP in many others. It is probably worth pointing out that I have never previously felt the need to join this list and comment on / ask questions about, Seamonkey -- it has, until now, done everything I wanted. Now, with 2.2, I feel I have no option : if I want 2.x to be as good as 2.0.14, and even more secure, then I feel I have to make my voice heard. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
hawker schrieb: So in SM 2.0 and before the sidebar search displayed the search results in both the browser window and below the search input. Unfortunately that's not possible in this way with the new search mechanism we switched to in 2.1 and later. This is unfortunate, but OTOH the older mechanism couldn't support the OpenSearch standard all other browser support, and in addition could not be independently maintained any longer by the small all-volunteer team SeaMonkey has. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
Robert Kaiser wrote: hawker schrieb: So in SM 2.0 and before the sidebar search displayed the search results in both the browser window and below the search input. Unfortunately that's not possible in this way with the new search mechanism we switched to in 2.1 and later. This is unfortunate, but OTOH the older mechanism couldn't support the OpenSearch standard all other browser support, At the risk of sounding confrontational (which is not my intent) doing what all other browsers do is not, I suggest, why most of us use Seamonkey. We use Seamonkey because it does /not/ do what the other browsers do : if we wanted what the other browsers do, we would use the other browsers. My Eur 0,02 Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
hawker wrote: As a side note: I hate to complain here. I find most of the complaining here to be unwarranted. To read this forum when SM went from 1.x to 2.0 the sky was falling. Most of the show stoppers I hear were issues I never saw, or felt were not a big deal. So most of the gloom and doom I read here I felt was just over reacting on peoples part. Example the changes to the forum manager were really not that big a deal. That seems to have changed for me in 2.2. I now see several odd behaviors It's amazing how differently users react to these changes. I'm glad the loss of the form manager didn't affect you, whereas it was a deal-killer for me. I skipped 2.0 and 2.1 for that single reason. Yet my recent switch from 1.1.19 to 2.2, while far from pain-free, has been a wonderful improvement for me, in ways too numerous to mention. Forms are still a problem, but I've had zero stability problems and truly appreciate most of the enhancements that I've tried so far. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
On 7/28/2011 12:50 PM, Robert Kaiser wrote: hawker schrieb: So in SM 2.0 and before the sidebar search displayed the search results in both the browser window and below the search input. Unfortunately that's not possible in this way with the new search mechanism we switched to in 2.1 and later. This is unfortunate, but OTOH the older mechanism couldn't support the OpenSearch standard all other browser support, and in addition could not be independently maintained any longer by the small all-volunteer team SeaMonkey has. Robert Kaiser Thank you for the clarification. The best work around would come in a feature request I have wanted for a while. I wish I could split tabs to take less than a full window. Perhaps split a page or some such, with a movable bar to divide them. I often have to compare two things side by side, or reference one thing with another frame. With a dual page or slider I could do this and resolve the search issue. 2 floating windows or two tabs doesn't quite work. Even better would be the floating windows in an opening such as Eudora used to be back in the rev 7 and before days. I realize that would be a major feature request but I'm sure it would be well loved by many. Hawker ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
Philip TAYLOR wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: This is unfortunate, but OTOH the older mechanism couldn't support the OpenSearch standard all other browser support, At the risk of sounding confrontational (which is not my intent) doing what all other browsers do is not, I suggest, why most of us use Seamonkey. I think the point Robert was trying to make was not so much that we wanted to match other browsers there but to support an open standard for search engines (OpenSearch) that is widely used and has superseded the older one (Sherlock). This is also reflected on search engine selection sites such as addons.mozilla.org and mycroft.mozdev.org. Before version 2.1, SeaMonkey prevented users from using most of the alternatives listed there. HTH Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: hawker schrieb: So in SM 2.0 and before the sidebar search displayed the search results in both the browser window and below the search input. Unfortunately that's not possible in this way with the new search mechanism we switched to in 2.1 and later. This is unfortunate, but OTOH the older mechanism couldn't support the OpenSearch standard all other browser support, At the risk of sounding confrontational (which is not my intent) doing what all other browsers do is not, I suggest, why most of us use Seamonkey. We use Seamonkey because it does /not/ do what the other browsers do : if we wanted what the other browsers do, we would use the other browsers. My Eur 0,02 Philip Taylor Sorry to burst your bubble, but I want SeaMonkey to do what all modern browsers are starting to do, such as HTML5, CSS3, 3D, Web video without Flash support and more. YMMV -- Using SeaMonkey 2.4a2 on openSUSE 11.3 Linux ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Sidebar Search change in 2.2
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:00:39 +0100, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: hawker schrieb: So in SM 2.0 and before the sidebar search displayed the search results in both the browser window and below the search input. Unfortunately that's not possible in this way with the new search mechanism we switched to in 2.1 and later. This is unfortunate, but OTOH the older mechanism couldn't support the OpenSearch standard all other browser support, At the risk of sounding confrontational (which is not my intent) doing what all other browsers do is not, I suggest, why most of us use Seamonkey. We use Seamonkey because it does /not/ do what the other browsers do : if we wanted what the other browsers do, we would use the other browsers. The old Sherlock search engines are getting increasingly rare. Websites that offer search engines these days now only have them OpenSearch format. mycroft.mozdev.org which is probably the most comprehensive collection of search engines is in the process of deleting Sherlock plugins once the OpenSearch version is available. Eventually there won't be any more Sherlock plugins available. Also many Sherlock plugins did not have the optional metadata that supported the scraping mechanism used to populate the search results in the sidebar. This was optional and looking through Mycroft most Sherlock format plugins never bothered to include this data anyway. Phil -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
