Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > will > >>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. > >>> Perhaps > >>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but > anything > >>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > >>>>> > >>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ciao, > >>>>> > >>>>> Dave > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > >>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > >>> installations > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Richard - > >>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > >>> soundscape is > >>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a > >>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do > are > >>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > around > >>> the > >>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > might > >>> be > >>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the > way > >>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- next part -- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > >>>>> > >>>>> ___ > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Augustine Leudar > >>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>> -- next part -- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > >>>> ___ > >>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >>> -- next part -- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/> > >>> attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html> > >>> ___ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here, > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Augustine Leudar > >> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >> Company Number : NI635217 > >> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >> Belfast BT88LL > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html <https://mail.music.vt.edu/ > mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html>> > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html> > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, using a client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and the client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you type in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the speakers. So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels with movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ‘bed channels’) or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio style), where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded. Richard. > On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go into > an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). > > The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can link > together switches for larger port numbers. > > > > >> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Richard - >> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet out of >> the mac ? >> >> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za >> <mailto:r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: >> >>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: >>> >>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run >>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? >>> >>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So for >>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the >>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each >>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. >>> >>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus audio >>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to 120 >>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate passive >>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. >>> >>> Here is a bit more info: >>> >>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- >>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www >>> <http://www/>. >>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- >>> <http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> >>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> >>> >>> Richard. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to >>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for >>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them as well >>>> as audio. >>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : >>>> >>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p >>>> >>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain >>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet >>>> cable to each one ? >>>> >>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will >>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. >>> Perhaps >>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything >>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. >>>>> >>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. >>>>> >>>>> Ciao, >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT >>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent >>> installations >>>>>> >>>>>> >>&
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can link together switches for larger port numbers. > On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Richard - > So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet out of > the mac ? > > On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za > <mailto:r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: > >> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: >> >>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run >> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? >> >> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So for >> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the >> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each >> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. >> >> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus audio >> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to 120 >> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate passive >> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. >> >> Here is a bit more info: >> >> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- >> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www >> <http://www/>. >> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- >> <http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> >> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> >> >> Richard. >> >> >> >>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to >>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for >>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them as well >>> as audio. >>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : >>> >>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p >>> >>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain >>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet >>> cable to each one ? >>> >>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> >> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will >>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. >> Perhaps >>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything >>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. >>>> >>>> The available current may power the DAC though. >>>> >>>> Ciao, >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT >>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent >> installations >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Richard - >>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the >> soundscape is >>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a >>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are >>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around >> the >>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might >> be >>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way >>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- next part -- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme >>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Sursound mailing list >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>>> https://mail.music.vt.e
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
Hi Richard - So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet out of the mac ? On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: > > > can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run > a seperate ethernet cable to each one? > > You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So for > example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the > outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each > speaker would listen to one of the outputs. > > You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus audio > Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to 120 > speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate passive > speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. > > Here is a bit more info: > > http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www. > technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> > > Richard. > > > > > On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to > > passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for > > larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them as well > > as audio. > > These look like they might be OK for some stuff : > > > > https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p > > > > but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain > > them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet > > cable to each one ? > > > > On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> > wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will > >> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. > Perhaps > >> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything > >> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > >> > >> The available current may power the DAC though. > >> > >> Ciao, > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > >>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > installations > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Richard - > >>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > soundscape is > >>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a > >>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are > >>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around > the > >>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might > be > >>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way > >>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable. > >>> > >> > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > >> > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Augustine Leudar > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > Company Number : NI635217 > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > Belfast BT88LL > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attach
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
They look nice Dave - it would have to be a well funded project to afford them though. I also wonder whether they could survie the sauna test for years. humidity and heat being the main problems. On 29 June 2017 at 18:30, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote: > If you don't mind using analog audio, Meyer do some very nice, waterproof > powered speakers (MM-4XP). They use a specially designed cable which > carries balanced audio and DC power. The connector is a bit fiddly to wire > up and they are not cheap but we got very good results from them in the > Morning Line project ( > https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line- > sonic-temple-istanbul > ) > >Dave > > > On 29 June 2017 at 17:48, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote: > > > > > The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to: > > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_ > > par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet > > A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp. > > With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough > > for a small public installation. > > > > A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable > > for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other > > pairs to transmit power (as much as required). > > > > Running speaker wires is also a valid solution... > > > > -- > > Marc > > > > > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited > > > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much > > > amplification. > > > > > > Michael Graves > > > mgra...@mstvp.com > > > http://www.mgraves.org > > > o(713) 861-4005 > > > c(713) 201-1262 > > > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > > > skype mjgraves > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] > > > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt" > > > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am > > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > > > will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet > > > cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital > > > amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries) > > > to the speaker. > > > > > > The available current may power the DAC though. > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > > > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > > > installations > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Richard - > > > > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > > > soundscape is > > > > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just > > > > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > > > > do are > > > > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > > > around the > > > > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > > > > might be > > > > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > > > > the way > > > > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > > > > cable. > > > > > > -- next part -- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: > > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > > > ___ Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > > scrubbed... URL: > > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html> >
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
If you don't mind using analog audio, Meyer do some very nice, waterproof powered speakers (MM-4XP). They use a specially designed cable which carries balanced audio and DC power. The connector is a bit fiddly to wire up and they are not cheap but we got very good results from them in the Morning Line project ( https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line-sonic-temple-istanbul ) Dave On 29 June 2017 at 17:48, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote: > > The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to: > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_ > par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet > A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp. > With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough > for a small public installation. > > A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable > for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other > pairs to transmit power (as much as required). > > Running speaker wires is also a valid solution... > > -- > Marc > > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited > > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much > > amplification. > > > > Michael Graves > > mgra...@mstvp.com > > http://www.mgraves.org > > o(713) 861-4005 > > c(713) 201-1262 > > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > > skype mjgraves > > > > > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] > > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt" > > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > Hi, > > > > I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > > will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet > > cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital > > amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries) > > to the speaker. > > > > The available current may power the DAC though. > > > > Ciao, > > > > Dave > > > > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > > installations > > > > > > > > > Hi Richard - > > > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > > soundscape is > > > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just > > > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > > > do are > > > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > > around the > > > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > > > might be > > > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > > > the way > > > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > > > cable. > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > > ___ Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... URL: > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html> > > ___ Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/9313e37c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
Actually, 802.11at Type 2 supports up to 25w, but requires more effort to source power. That is, newer more costly, switches or insertors. The hack you describe isn't really so hack-ish, since there are a number of non-802.11 compliant approaches to POE. Including one that's capable of delivering up to 90 watts. Here's a unique approach called Digital Electricity. https://voltserver.com/ They provide high-power and data over a simple 2-conductor pair. They claim 20x the power and distance of 802.11af solutions. Cost is another matter. Michael Graves mgra...@mstvp.com http://www.mgraves.org o(713) 861-4005 c(713) 201-1262 sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com skype mjgraves - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Marc Lavalle" <m...@hacklava.net> Date: 6/29/17 11:48 am To: sursound@music.vt.edu The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp. With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough for a small public installation. A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other pairs to transmit power (as much as required). Running speaker wires is also a valid solution... -- Marc On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote: > Hi, > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much > amplification. > > Michael Graves > mgra...@mstvp.com > http://www.mgraves.org > o(713) 861-4005 > c(713) 201-1262 > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > skype mjgraves > > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt" > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > > Hi, > > I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet > cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital > amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries) > to the speaker. > > The available current may power the DAC though. > > Ciao, > > Dave > > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > installations > > > > > > Hi Richard - > > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > soundscape is > > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just > > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > > do are > > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > around the > > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > > might be > > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > > the way > > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > > cable. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > ___ Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html> > ___ Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0f09417f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp. With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough for a small public installation. A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other pairs to transmit power (as much as required). Running speaker wires is also a valid solution... -- Marc On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote: > Hi, > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much > amplification. > > Michael Graves > mgra...@mstvp.com > http://www.mgraves.org > o(713) 861-4005 > c(713) 201-1262 > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > skype mjgraves > > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt" > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > > Hi, > > I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet > cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital > amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries) > to the speaker. > > The available current may power the DAC though. > > Ciao, > > Dave > > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > installations > > > > > > Hi Richard - > > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > soundscape is > > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just > > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > > do are > > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > around the > > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > > might be > > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > > the way > > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > > cable. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > ___ Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html> > ___ Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them as well as audio. These look like they might be OK for some stuff : https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet cable to each one ? On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will > require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. Perhaps > for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything > decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > > The available current may power the DAC though. > > Ciao, > > Dave > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT >> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations >> >> >> Hi Richard - >> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the soundscape is >> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a >> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are >> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around the >> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might be >> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way >> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable. >> > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
VB is another option for multichannel audio over > > >>>>> ethernet. > > >>>>> It is now available as standard (and for free) in any Mac running a > > >>>>> recent os, and several options for avb enabled amplifiers are > > available: > > >>>>> biamp, crown, l-acoustics to list a few. > > >>>>> If converters are required, the Motu AVB series can help, and is > > >>>>> relatively inexpensive. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Guillaume > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On 28 Jun 2017, at 18:00, Jörn Nettingsmeier < > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On 06/27/2017 07:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> see my post before last for what went wrong. How much are the > > Joecos ? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/joeco_bbr64_dante_blackbox_ > recorder.htm > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> However, if you go the Dante route, you might as well use an old > > >>>>>> Minimac > > >>>>>> with a virtual soundcard (if 32 ch out is enough) and an > appropriate > > >>>>>> Dante > > >>>>>> converter. Should be cheaper, if you have the Mac lying around, > and > > no > > >>>>>> less > > >>>>>> robust if the hardware is otherwise ok. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier > > >>>>>> De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland > > >>>>>> Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT > > >>>>>> http://stackingdwarves.net > > >>>>>> ___ > > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > >>>>>> here, > > >>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ___ > > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>> Professor Richard Foss > > >>>> Computer Science Department > > >>>> Rhodes University > > >>>> Grahamstown 6140 > > >>>> South Africa > > >>>> > > >>>> Tel: +27 46 6038294 > > >>>> Cell: +27 83 288 9354 > > >>>> email: r.f...@ru.ac.za > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ___ > > >>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> -- > > >> Professor Richard Foss > > >> Computer Science Department > > >> Rhodes University > > >> Grahamstown 6140 > > >> South Africa > > >> > > >> Tel: +27 46 6038294 > > >> Cell: +27 83 288 9354 > > >> email: r.f...@ru.ac.za > > >> > > >> ___ > > >> Sursound mailing list > > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Augustine Leudar > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > -- next part -- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170628/b5df6b66/attachment.html> > > > ___ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170628/cf7945ee/attachment.html> > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/46db49b6/attachment.html> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/9ad2c53d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] anyone compared ossic vs 3dsoundlabs headphones?
http://www.3dsoundlabs.com/category/technology/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ossic-x-immersive-3d-audio-headphones-sound?gclid=COfcq-Ov49QCFYSNswodtpQGWg#/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/39ecb526/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
