Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Le 15/09/2018 à 14:17, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano a écrit : [*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order PCBs, assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering skills), connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), find a space for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ calibration measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and reference microphone), run the calibration software and check results for sanity, etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end result is pretty good. Imagine the Zoom H3, ready to use, but with complete specs and schematics, a calibration file and a documented calibration procedure, for $100 more. Ir would be a commercial success. Marc ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Rode - A/B Format trademark?
I’m not a lawyer, but my understanding is that under USA law, anyone can claim a trademark, but this particular claim wouldn’t be defensible because of its prior general usage. Garry -- Garry Margolis gar...@panix.com On Sep 15, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Paul Hodges wrote: > > --On 15 September 2018 18:25 +0100 Phi Shu wrote: > >> Surely not something that can be granted considering the terms have >> been widely used for decades? > > Trademark rules are far from obvious. Microsoft trademarked the word > "bookshelf" at one point. > > But I can't see what they think they gain by doing it anyway... > > Paul > > -- > Paul Hodges > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit > account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] Zoom limiters
Yes it does in the h2, h4, h4n, and the h6, but not the f4, f8, or f8n. They are hybrid... I have a h4n, h2n, and f8, but have used them all. It really does work like i said, and is effective at higher bit rates. There's quite a few tests online, and quite a few misplaced negatively from sound devices owners, that really didn't do their research. Obviously i would prefer a bank of 8 accurately linked analig limiters, but that really does bump up the price and size. (started a new thread so we don't go to off piste) Best Steve On Sat, 15 Sep 2018, 21:07 Ralf R Radermacher, wrote: > Am 15.09.18 um 21:11 schrieb Steven Boardman: > > Their limiter doesn't work like that Ralf. > > It does in the H2, H4 and H4n. Purely digital and behind the A/D > converter. They call it a digital 'effect'. > > Zoom have a rich history with such stunts. Shortly after the > introduction of the H4n, some particularly loud metal musicians > complained that even in the lowest level setting it would still be > distorting. > > A new firmware release brought the additional mic level settings 0.1 to > 0.9 with a downward extension of the control range by 24 dB. A quick > check on the test bench revealed that they just reduced the level in the > digital domain. The recorded signal was still flat-topping, with the > level meters at -24 dB, while the input select buttons were flashing > furiously to indicate the overload at the AD converter. > > > Having an all in one small unit, however non professional is great. > > I'll certainly agree with that, although cum grano salis, as usual with > Zoom. Having said this, I have a few hundred audio recordings I would > never have made if it weren't for the ease and simplicity of the Zooms. > > Ralf > > -- > Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany > Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com > Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf > Web : http://www.fotoralf.de > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/6a04597f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Am 15.09.18 um 21:11 schrieb Steven Boardman: Their limiter doesn't work like that Ralf. It does in the H2, H4 and H4n. Purely digital and behind the A/D converter. They call it a digital 'effect'. Zoom have a rich history with such stunts. Shortly after the introduction of the H4n, some particularly loud metal musicians complained that even in the lowest level setting it would still be distorting. A new firmware release brought the additional mic level settings 0.1 to 0.9 with a downward extension of the control range by 24 dB. A quick check on the test bench revealed that they just reduced the level in the digital domain. The recorded signal was still flat-topping, with the level meters at -24 dB, while the input select buttons were flashing furiously to indicate the overload at the AD converter. Having an all in one small unit, however non professional is great. I'll certainly agree with that, although cum grano salis, as usual with Zoom. Having said this, I have a few hundred audio recordings I would never have made if it weren't for the ease and simplicity of the Zooms. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Am 15.09.18 um 20:45 schrieb Bo-Erik Sandholm: My only github project OHTI, open headtracker will soon be updated due to information I have recently found out. Is there a link to this project? A quick Google search hasn't returned anything. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Their limiter doesn't work like that Ralf. It's a hybrid type. If its enabled the analog record attenuated by 12db, but compensated by a 12db gain digitally. When the signal hits the limiter, the digital gain compensation is removed. Leaving the adc un clipped. Its not as good as limiters solely in the analog domain, but a good compromise. If recording 24bit this isn't to much of a problem. Especially on the f8 as you can use the other 4 preamps to record at a different level. My take on all this, is the more the merrier. Having an all in one small unit, however non professional is great. I have a twirling720 lite, which works with my phone. I have it on me all the time. Not exactly professional standard, but some of the sounds i have recorded, would not of happened if it was pro gear. I just wouldn't risk losing it. Its cheap and Its small, and i always have my phone anyway... Best Steve On Sat, 15 Sep 2018, 19:53 Ralf R Radermacher, wrote: > Am 15.09.18 um 19:44 schrieb Fernando Lopez-Lezcano: > > > I'm looking forward to buying one and putting it through my measuring > > and calibration procedures. > > Also, it will be interesting to see if for once they really have > included a useful limiter, i.e. one working ahead of the A/D converter, > or if its again just a digital 'effect' reducing the level of the > squarewave from the overdriven converter in the digital domain. > > Ralf > > -- > Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany > Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com > Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf > Web : http://www.fotoralf.de > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/30edbe48/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Am 15.09.18 um 19:44 schrieb Fernando Lopez-Lezcano: I'm looking forward to buying one and putting it through my measuring and calibration procedures. Also, it will be interesting to see if for once they really have included a useful limiter, i.e. one working ahead of the A/D converter, or if its again just a digital 'effect' reducing the level of the squarewave from the overdriven converter in the digital domain. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Not to be a sour puss, but doing open source stuff and not updating the documention is something a lot of us are guilty off... This is a really a sad state off affairs, and many man hours can be saved of we guilty ones made the effort :-) In some cases the code is updated but you can only find information on how the first feature starved version worked. So take your time and make the effort to do the documentation... My only github project OHTI, open headtracker will soon be updated due to information I have recently found out. The fixes I have searched for have actually been implemented for quite a while, but info about that has been impossible to find using Google searches. So I had to get the info directly from the developer. Bo-Erik On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:17 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, wrote: > On 09/15/2018 05:59 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote: > > Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit : > > > >> David Pickett wrote: > >> > >>> This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money > >>> you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of > >>> capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of > >>> which determine its potential value as a professional tool. > >> > >> For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone > >> for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! > > > > What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics > > microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project: > > https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/ > > > > I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself, > > without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I > > want a modest gear and enough knowledge. > > Yup, what I wanted as well, and one of the reasons I started the > project. The current generation of microphones in the SpHEAR world (four > and eight capsule designs so far) is sort of "feature complete", > including a fairly decent calibration procedure (or so I think). > > The current status of the project is reflected in this recent paper > (AES, not public, sorry, contact me if you don't have access): > > The *SpHEAR Project Update: The TinySpHEAR and Octathingy Soundfield > Microphones > http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19682 > > (the actual SpHEAR project git repository web front page is very > outdated, sorry, and I have not had time to push the latest updates) > > >In the meanwhile, I could get > > an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the > > numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound; > > collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a > > decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, ... > > It is possible to do that now. But as I say in another post of this > thread, building one is not "cheap", if you count labor[*], and (not > enough time as always) the instructions are not complete. On the other > hand, the knowledge gained in building and understanding one is > something you cannot buy... > > -- Fernando > > [*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order PCBs, > assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering skills), > connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), find a space > for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ calibration > measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and reference > microphone), run the calibration software and check results for sanity, > etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end result is > pretty good. > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: mics_alone_s.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 281885 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/fa7b8e81/attachment.jpg > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/297d4c33/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
On 09/15/2018 05:59 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote: Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit : David Pickett wrote: This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which determine its potential value as a professional tool. For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project: https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/ I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself, without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I want a modest gear and enough knowledge. Yup, what I wanted as well, and one of the reasons I started the project. The current generation of microphones in the SpHEAR world (four and eight capsule designs so far) is sort of "feature complete", including a fairly decent calibration procedure (or so I think). The current status of the project is reflected in this recent paper (AES, not public, sorry, contact me if you don't have access): The *SpHEAR Project Update: The TinySpHEAR and Octathingy Soundfield Microphones http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19682 (the actual SpHEAR project git repository web front page is very outdated, sorry, and I have not had time to push the latest updates) In the meanwhile, I could get an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound; collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, ... It is possible to do that now. But as I say in another post of this thread, building one is not "cheap", if you count labor[*], and (not enough time as always) the instructions are not complete. On the other hand, the knowledge gained in building and understanding one is something you cannot buy... -- Fernando [*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order PCBs, assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering skills), connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), find a space for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ calibration measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and reference microphone), run the calibration software and check results for sanity, etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end result is pretty good. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mics_alone_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 281885 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/fa7b8e81/attachment.jpg> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
On 09/15/2018 08:12 AM, hacklava wrote: On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:52:03 +0100 Chris Woolf wrote: How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture and calibration is another (commercial) problem. Ah, yes, calibration. I imagine that the H3V is not individually calibrated (like the Ambeo). That means frequency response and polar patterns will not be "perfect", but I presume they will be good enough (they say the capsules are matched). Even if they are not "perfect", will those errors be perceptually relevant to recordings made with it? At least some secrecy is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse engineering too easy... Hmmm, for a first order microphone it does not look to me like you need any reverse engineering to see what is going on in it. Unless you mean the practical engineering choices made to create an affordable product with enough quality to satisfy the target market. I like what I see so far (but that could change when I get hold of one :-). and therefore losing the mass market that their product has to be based on. I read your "it's the economy, stupid" argument. Now there's a market. Hallelujah. Consumers of the world, praise secrecy. My point is that all the hardware is available to build an Ambisonics microphone, there's no fundamental research to be done (at least for a simple FOA microphone), and Ambisonics is patent free. That's exactly why Zoom was able to create a new consumer product. There's probably more plastic than anything else in this microphone. It will good enough, and a lot of fun to use, but still... The missing "soft" part is calibration... The new Zoom H3V can record A-format, that is, the signals coming directly from the capsules. That means that you can calibrate it[*], and use an external encoder to convert A format to B format. The B format performance will be determined by the quality of the calibration measurements and the algorithm (and tradeofs) of the calibration process. A custom calibration can compensate for gain mismatches between capsules, frequency response of the capsules, and to some degree mechanical inaccuracies, but not polar pattern mismatches of the capsules. You of course cannot improve the raw signal to noise ratio of the capsules and preamps themselves (and of course the raw frequency response), but judging from previous Zoom products (I have used the H2N) those numbers should be acceptable. I'm looking forward to buying one and putting it through my measuring and calibration procedures. I will be able to do "before" and "after" plots of all the parameters... :-) -- Fernando [*] the specs I read so far are a bit unclear regarding the USB audio interface behavior, apparently you can send to the computer all four signals (but which ones? can you send A-format?) but it is not clear if you can, at the same time, send from the computer to, say, the line outputs. If that is the case it would make calibration much simpler (otherwise the playback equipment and recording equipment are not sample rate locked and the mismatch has to be compensated for, something I was doing for calibrating my SpHEAR FrankenMic, an H2N with an external "correct" tetrahedral capsule array). ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Rode - A/B Format trademark?
--On 15 September 2018 18:25 +0100 Phi Shu wrote: > Surely not something that can be granted considering the terms have > been widely used for decades? Trademark rules are far from obvious. Microsoft trademarked the word "bookshelf" at one point. But I can't see what they think they gain by doing it anyway... Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] Rode - A/B Format trademark?
Noticed Rode are using a little 'TM' now as in A-Format™, B-Format™ see in the specs for the Soundfield plug-in: https://www.rode.com/soundfieldplugin#footer_download Surely not something that can be granted considering the terms have been widely used for decades? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/0c18c68d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
On 15/09/2018 16:12, hacklava wrote: On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:52:03 +0100 Chris Woolf wrote: How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture and calibration is another (commercial) problem. At least some secrecy is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse engineering too easy... and therefore losing the mass market that their product has to be based on. I read your "it's the economy, stupid" argument. Now there's a market. Hallelujah. Consumers of the world, praise secrecy. Put it this way; I understand how the audio market works, having been a designer for bits of it over the decades. Personally I love the artisan aspect, but I have to accept that patents and keeping some things hidden has been what has paid my for my bread crusts over the years. My point is that all the hardware is available to build an Ambisonics microphone, But selling you 4 matched capsules as an individual, and selling them as part of a finished ambisonics recorder, is a very different commercial matter. ... There's probably more plastic than anything else in this microphone. Oh, don't dismiss plastic! It can be a far better material than metal, used in the right place. Nor is it cheap to design and tool - it is just cheap as a part, when you make 100,000. I have countless arguments about the use of foam i n windshields, which people assume must be cheap because they see something like it in packaging. They never realise how hard it is to engineer on a 3-axis high speed CNC. Like sound, reality have directional components; we're in 2018, not in 1980, and there's alternatives. There are Chris Woolf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] OT: email client settings
I just want to apologize for my last post to the list: I used an improperly configured email client, so all email addresses are in clear in the message body. The one I'm using now is Thunderbird (because the Mozilla foundation care about such things). Le 21/08/2018 à 08:45, Marc Lavallée a écrit : Each email client is different. At least some email clients don't include the email address of a post in the body of a reply. Usually, public archives of email lists are partly obfuscating email addresses, so we will survive. Still, I will try, as much as possible (and when I think about it), to delete email adresses in the body of my replies (to email lists). Please excuse my quasi-useless and very OT intervention; I'm aware that fighting spam is a lost cause (like trying to avoid plastic or stop global warming). Marc ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:52:03 +0100 Chris Woolf wrote: > How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture > and calibration is another (commercial) problem. At least some secrecy > is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse > engineering too easy... and therefore losing the mass market that their > product has to be based on. I read your "it's the economy, stupid" argument. Now there's a market. Hallelujah. Consumers of the world, praise secrecy. My point is that all the hardware is available to build an Ambisonics microphone, there's no fondamental research to be done (at least for a simple FOA microphone), and Ambisonics is patent free. That's exactly why Zoom was able to create a new consumer product. There's probably more plastic than anything else in this microphone. It will good enough, and a lot of fun to use, but still... The missing "soft" part is calibration... Even if calibration becomes common knowledge, there would be people making money offering calibration services; the end of secrecy is not the end of economy. > None of this appeals to the artisan in most of us, but the reality of it > cannot be ignored either. Like sound, reality have directional components; we're in 2018, not in 1980, and there's alternatives. Marc ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Marc L said: What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project: https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/ I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself, without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I want a modest gear and enough knowledge Marc The great problem, of course, is that these things are only "affordable" if they can be mass-produced and sold in the tens of thousands. In DIY quantities for enthusiasts they may be excellent in quality, but they really cannot be inexpensive. For low cost the Zooms and the Rode's are the only plausible future, because they can amortise their enormous research, set-up and machining costs over sufficient numbers. The interesting point is that the sort of accuracy and tolerance feasible during their style of mass-production is beginning to equate to that of the specialists of bygone years. How open these sort of products can be in terms of internal architecture and calibration is another (commercial) problem. At least some secrecy is essential to their business model, to avoid making reverse engineering too easy... and therefore losing the mass market that their product has to be based on. None of this appeals to the artisan in most of us, but the reality of it cannot be ignored either. Chris Woolf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
At 12:19 15-09-18, Eero Aro wrote: David Pickett wrote: This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which determine its potential value as a professional tool. For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250. All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket money to buy one for my personal use. All other, later Ambisonic mic models have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom H3 is welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a reasonably priced Ambisonic microphone. I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the biggest problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated for Joe D to set up. I totally agree about the fundamental inadequacies of the Soundfield mics that Eero lists. But I dont see why there cannot today be better products that dont cost the earth. Technical quality should not be assumed to be suspect on grounds of price alone. Quality control is measurable and can be done automatically in this day and age. By using electret capsules and digital measurement techniques, modern microphones can be mass produced more cheaply than the designs of 50 years ago. That being the case, I do not understand why today we get no published specifications of FR, polar diagram, FR, with +/- n dB tolerances. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Ha - Ive used them for professional work as well as mor ehi end stuff like Nagras etc - and Ive even had a few pros asking me what mics I used - imagine the horror on their faces. On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 14:16, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: > Am 15.09.18 um 12:19 schrieb Eero Aro: > > > For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone > > for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! > > Same here. Can't wait to get one. > > Wondering if a 350 USD mic with built-in recorder will be useable as a > professional tool seems to me quite ... errr... unprofessional. Reminds > me of those articles in British photo rags of the 1980s with titles like > "How to become a press photographer with a Zenit and a megazoom". > > I've been playing with Zoom recorders for over ten years and I've been > having lots of fun with them. More so indeed than I've ever had with a > whole O/B van full of equipment in my days as a pro audio engineer. > They're great little toys but I wouldn't dream of using one for serious > work. > > Horses for courses. > > Ralf > > -- > Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany > Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com > Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf > Web : http://www.fotoralf.de > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Dr. Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL www.magikdoor.net +44(0)7555784775 ------ next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/3045438d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Am 15.09.18 um 12:19 schrieb Eero Aro: For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! Same here. Can't wait to get one. Wondering if a 350 USD mic with built-in recorder will be useable as a professional tool seems to me quite ... errr... unprofessional. Reminds me of those articles in British photo rags of the 1980s with titles like "How to become a press photographer with a Zenit and a megazoom". I've been playing with Zoom recorders for over ten years and I've been having lots of fun with them. More so indeed than I've ever had with a whole O/B van full of equipment in my days as a pro audio engineer. They're great little toys but I wouldn't dream of using one for serious work. Horses for courses. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit : David Pickett wrote: This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which determine its potential value as a professional tool. For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project: https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/ I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself, without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I want a modest gear and enough knowledge. In the meanwhile, I could get an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound; collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, but by then, how many new obscure and shiny "products" will hit the market? Marc ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
$349 pre-order according to this website...http://360rumors.com/2018/09/can-now-preorder-zoom-h3-vr-ambisonic-microphone-auto-alignment-advanced-features.html On Saturday, 15 September 2018, 11:35:26 GMT+1, Augustine Leudar wrote: Couldnt see the cost anywhere ? Anyone know the pricing ? On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 11:20, Eero Aro wrote: > David Pickett wrote: > > > This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you > > dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule > > matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which > > determine its potential value as a professional tool. > > For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone > for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! > > I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250. > All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket > money to buy one for my personal use. All other, later Ambisonic mic > models > have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom > H3 is > welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a > reasonably > priced Ambisonic microphone. > > I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise > at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the > biggest > problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't > been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as > the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated > for Joe D to set up. > > Eero > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Dr. Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL www.magikdoor.net +44(0)7555784775 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/b7da761c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/152f122c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
Couldnt see the cost anywhere ? Anyone know the pricing ? On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 11:20, Eero Aro wrote: > David Pickett wrote: > > > This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you > > dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule > > matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which > > determine its potential value as a professional tool. > > For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone > for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! > > I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250. > All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket > money to buy one for my personal use. All other, later Ambisonic mic > models > have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom > H3 is > welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a > reasonably > priced Ambisonic microphone. > > I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise > at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the > biggest > problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't > been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as > the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated > for Joe D to set up. > > Eero > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Dr. Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL www.magikdoor.net +44(0)7555784775 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/b7da761c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
David Pickett wrote: This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which determine its potential value as a professional tool. For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure! I have been using my employer's Soundfield Mk IV and V and the ST250. All of them have been noisy and expensive buggers not suited for my pocket money to buy one for my personal use. All other, later Ambisonic mic models have also been and are too expensive for me to buy. That's why the Zoom H3 is welcome and it will surely find buyers. There is a market gap for a reasonably priced Ambisonic microphone. I do understand that the H3 will not be technically and audio quality wise at as high level as products that cost ten on more times more, but the biggest problem with all Ambisonic gear during the years has been that there hasn't been equipment for the ordinary home user. Only some decoders, such as the Minims were targeted for the home, and even them were a bit complicated for Joe D to set up. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Soundfield plugin
As far as I can tell it does nothing in the frequency domain. But I was surprised when I gave it an A format file recorded with Brahma as if it was an SF 1 file. The processing was surprisingly effective (I mean it new front from back). umashankar Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Sursound on behalf of Gary Gallagher Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 1:04:02 PM To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] Soundfield plugin Rode officially released the nt-sf1 and it's proceesing software - anyone have the technical nouse to elaborate this passage? "Eschewing the matrices and correction filters of previous generations, it utilises state-of-the-art frequency-domain processing. https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rode.com%2Fsoundfieldplugin%23footer_download&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8f31b90ba384cd30ed208d61addabf3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636725936698235488&sdata=518%2BNsrBdwBpXKj0E5KiaBryoKpIlverlbuh5iKd%2F9Y%3D&reserved=0 Gary -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Fsursound%2Fattachments%2F20180915%2F06b6811c%2Fattachment.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8f31b90ba384cd30ed208d61addabf3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636725936698235488&sdata=iOgeIM1WIKHNQBO2jk3vf2H6xmk%2BTfRGRfKtUiiQHu4%3D&reserved=0> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8f31b90ba384cd30ed208d61addabf3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636725936698235488&sdata=CqXhYtQvK8QavFGDn0GyeJEw7dmECiafvDXYXfmIRYY%3D&reserved=0 - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/459e964b/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] Soundfield plugin
Rode officially released the nt-sf1 and it's proceesing software - anyone have the technical nouse to elaborate this passage? "Eschewing the matrices and correction filters of previous generations, it utilises state-of-the-art frequency-domain processing. https://www.rode.com/soundfieldplugin#footer_download Gary -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/06b6811c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR
At 10:10 14-09-18, Drew Kirkland wrote: > >https://www.harmonycentral.com/news/the-h3-vr-handy-recorder---vr-audi >o-youve-arrived > >On Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 09:05 Søren Bendixen, wrote: > >> Someone on Facebook mention around 350 USD This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of which determine its potential value as a professional tool. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
