Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
Just a quick one: It seems to me that a dome could be interesting used as a kind of wavefield synthesis device. Domes have the interesting property of focussing sound at a point that is opposite the source, as it were. So you can create a 'holosonic' point source right next to someone's ear Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Waterman Sent: 18 February 2013 16:47 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into... One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
You need LOTS of very closely aligned speakers and the software will take a while to install/learn, then rendering the channels also takes time if you do it that way. The holosonic point source next to the ear is my holy grail - I havent got it yet - but I am told IRcams system can do this. I have heard stories of weird phase effects next to the ear in other systems, and have got that working - but thats not quite the same. The truth is you could probably get something more spectacular going with quarter the amount of speakers and Vbap. On 19 February 2013 11:39, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Just a quick one: It seems to me that a dome could be interesting used as a kind of wavefield synthesis device. Domes have the interesting property of focussing sound at a point that is opposite the source, as it were. So you can create a 'holosonic' point source right next to someone's ear Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Waterman Sent: 18 February 2013 16:47 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into... One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130219/d21ed42b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
I was talking about a whole lot cruder approach - not actually rendering into WFS - let the dome physically do that. Position a sound at point A, get an image at point B. for more image-locations, use more speakers, to move the image, pan from one to t'other, and live with the slight imprecision during movement. Oh, the point was, especially at HF, - point the speaker at the dome, let the dome do the rest... ;) - cheap to try out Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar Sent: 19 February 2013 11:50 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? You need LOTS of very closely aligned speakers and the software will take a while to install/learn, then rendering the channels also takes time if you do it that way. The holosonic point source next to the ear is my holy grail - I havent got it yet - but I am told IRcams system can do this. I have heard stories of weird phase effects next to the ear in other systems, and have got that working - but thats not quite the same. The truth is you could probably get something more spectacular going with quarter the amount of speakers and Vbap. On 19 February 2013 11:39, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Just a quick one: It seems to me that a dome could be interesting used as a kind of wavefield synthesis device. Domes have the interesting property of focussing sound at a point that is opposite the source, as it were. So you can create a 'holosonic' point source right next to someone's ear Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Waterman Sent: 18 February 2013 16:47 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into... One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130219/d21ed42b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
i think it will work - have heard enough phantom sources in archaeological sites - but ideally your dome should be a hemisphere - that is when you will get precise reflected points. umashankar i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:50:04 + From: augustineleu...@gmail.com To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? You need LOTS of very closely aligned speakers and the software will take a while to install/learn, then rendering the channels also takes time if you do it that way. The holosonic point source next to the ear is my holy grail - I havent got it yet - but I am told IRcams system can do this. I have heard stories of weird phase effects next to the ear in other systems, and have got that working - but thats not quite the same. The truth is you could probably get something more spectacular going with quarter the amount of speakers and Vbap. On 19 February 2013 11:39, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Just a quick one: It seems to me that a dome could be interesting used as a kind of wavefield synthesis device. Domes have the interesting property of focussing sound at a point that is opposite the source, as it were. So you can create a 'holosonic' point source right next to someone's ear Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Waterman Sent: 18 February 2013 16:47 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into... One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130219/d21ed42b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130219/417987be/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
Yeah - I would definately agree with that. You will find the dome has some freakish totally unepected reflective properties pooling the sound in odd places which 100 years of research would struggle to emulate artificially. The trick is to find these weird spots and then take advantage of them - all the while pretending that you had it planned from the beginning ;) On 19 February 2013 12:06, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: I was talking about a whole lot cruder approach - not actually rendering into WFS - let the dome physically do that. Position a sound at point A, get an image at point B. for more image-locations, use more speakers, to move the image, pan from one to t'other, and live with the slight imprecision during movement. Oh, the point was, especially at HF, - point the speaker at the dome, let the dome do the rest... ;) - cheap to try out Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar Sent: 19 February 2013 11:50 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? You need LOTS of very closely aligned speakers and the software will take a while to install/learn, then rendering the channels also takes time if you do it that way. The holosonic point source next to the ear is my holy grail - I havent got it yet - but I am told IRcams system can do this. I have heard stories of weird phase effects next to the ear in other systems, and have got that working - but thats not quite the same. The truth is you could probably get something more spectacular going with quarter the amount of speakers and Vbap. On 19 February 2013 11:39, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Just a quick one: It seems to me that a dome could be interesting used as a kind of wavefield synthesis device. Domes have the interesting property of focussing sound at a point that is opposite the source, as it were. So you can create a 'holosonic' point source right next to someone's ear Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Waterman Sent: 18 February 2013 16:47 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics? Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into... One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130219/d21ed42b/attachment.html
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? I'd try looking at Graz* publications. It won't help me, but may help other responders: What is ear height ? I.e. are the listeners at ground level? Standing or sitting? Michael *Whilst they have done half spheres ... I think they avoided contending with reflections ... ;-( ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
We did the American Museum of Natural History planetarium. It's a perforated, painted 70ft aluminum dome with 24 Meyer boxes behind it and a cluster of CQ2's and subs at the top splayed out pointing in 360 degrees audience (sort of like a front fill). The reflections made it really difficult to have any kind of coherence and this was the best possible scenario, with the speakers outside the dome pointing in. What I noticed was the ambisonic material felt very high compared to other spaces. It would have been nice to have speakers below the dome, especially subs to pull the image downward a bit by having sources below the audience as well as above. There wasn't enough time to be particularly scientific about the whole thing, but those were my impressions. The audience seemed to like it quite a bit other than that. Ben On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Michael Chapman s...@mchapman.com wrote: Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? I'd try looking at Graz* publications. It won't help me, but may help other responders: What is ear height ? I.e. are the listeners at ground level? Standing or sitting? Michael *Whilst they have done half spheres ... I think they avoided contending with reflections ... ;-( ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130218/a9dd7916/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
Hi there - I did several large (about 4 acres) walk through sound installations in the dome shaped tropical biome at the Eden project in Cornwall . I guess my application would be very different from yours. I designed the sound installation in an adjacent dome first - there were the weirdest reflections ever - for example at certain frequencies the sound pooled and was louder in one tiny patch on the other side of the building than 3 m away from the speaker etc etc. When I got it in the main biome it sounded completely different of course. The only thing I can advise you is not to go in with a set idea of how your going to do it but to try different configurations and see what sounds best once your in there - I know its a pain in the neck but these things usually need to be tuned to acoustic peculiarities that are impossible to predict. Its why I always like to have at elast three days before an event to do this. You can read about some the installations herehttp://web.archive.org/web/20110719132826/http://www.edenproject.com/come-and-visit/whats-on/heart-of-darkness.php Hope this helps ! On 18 February 2013 16:47, Neil Waterman neil.water...@asti-usa.com wrote: Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into… One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130218/2c95516e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
The guys you need to talk to are Dave Worrall and Kimmo Vennonen who have one a lot of things in Geodesic domes down in Oz. Dave, at least, was a member of this group- he as a website at http://www.avatar.com.au/worrall/ Dave On 18 February 2013 17:35, Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there - I did several large (about 4 acres) walk through sound installations in the dome shaped tropical biome at the Eden project in Cornwall . I guess my application would be very different from yours. I designed the sound installation in an adjacent dome first - there were the weirdest reflections ever - for example at certain frequencies the sound pooled and was louder in one tiny patch on the other side of the building than 3 m away from the speaker etc etc. When I got it in the main biome it sounded completely different of course. The only thing I can advise you is not to go in with a set idea of how your going to do it but to try different configurations and see what sounds best once your in there - I know its a pain in the neck but these things usually need to be tuned to acoustic peculiarities that are impossible to predict. Its why I always like to have at elast three days before an event to do this. You can read about some the installations herehttp://web.archive.org/web/20110719132826/http://www.edenproject.com/come-and-visit/whats-on/heart-of-darkness.php Hope this helps ! On 18 February 2013 16:47, Neil Waterman neil.water...@asti-usa.com wrote: Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into… One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around the periphery - is it better to try to beam the sound directly at the listeners position, or perhaps use a more diffuse speaker, facing up into the dome face? There will be space to get at least one speaker overhead for all configurations. Regards, Neil ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130218/2c95516e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
Please let us know anything you find out On 18 February 2013 17:50, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote: The guys you need to talk to are Dave Worrall and Kimmo Vennonen who have one a lot of things in Geodesic domes down in Oz. Dave, at least, was a member of this group- he as a website at http://www.avatar.com.au/worrall/ Dave -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130218/f4cebb5b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Any experience with dome acoustics?
On 19/02/2013, at 4:50 AM, Dave Malham wrote: The guys you need to talk to are Dave Worrall and Kimmo Vennonen who have one a lot of things in Geodesic domes down in Oz. Dave, at least, was a member of this group- he as a website at http://www.avatar.com.au/worrall/ Dave Hi Dave (hope you're family is enjoying your retirement too :-) , All... I'm still a member of this group - not much time ATM so just mostly lurking these days :-( (*) To hone Dave's reference: http://www.avatar.com.au/worrall/index.php/polymedia-event-theatres + I'm in the design phase of a new one: http://www.avatar.com.au/worrall/index.php/polymedia-event-theatres/pet-3-dome-cluster 2 thoughts: 1. Comments by Ben and Augustine are excellent. The height 'cluister' that Ben mentions What I noticed was the ambisonic material felt very high compared to other spaces. It would have been nice to have speakers below the dome, especially subs to pull the image downward a bit by having sources below the audience as well as above. is a known phenomena/problem. I guess it is related to whether you're playing recorder or synthesised material. If the latter, which was mostly our case, when loudspeakers are evenly placed on the surface of the hemisphere, then the speakers overhead seem to be too close together i.e cluster. This together w. the known coherence-death-zone (the centre of the spheroid), was somewhat overcome by eliminating the loudspeaker at the very top of the dome. I concur that low-placed subs - even under the audience if possible, help to ground the sound. I couldn't work out from Ben's post whether his only subs were at the top splayed out pointing in 360 degrees. If so, that would seem to be counter to one's sense of most low sounds being 'near the ground' ( low frequencies are heard more through the feet that the top of the head). 2. The reflective nature of the surface-to-surface and surface-to-floor couplings are critical. We used large projection screens and mounted acoustically absorbent material on the back of them to reduce the dome-as-resonator effect. Hope this helps. Some photos might be useful, as they often reveal things we forget to mention. -David (*) Actually, I've been doing 24 hour recordings w. Len's TetraMic. Just finished the summer version. I was using his binaural set in parallel, but it mysteriously gave up the ghost. Been meaning to write to him The project is: http://www.avatar.com.au/worrall/index.php/current-projects/34-on-turner-sump (no sound online yet) On 18 February 2013 17:35, Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there - I did several large (about 4 acres) walk through sound installations in the dome shaped tropical biome at the Eden project in Cornwall . I guess my application would be very different from yours. I designed the sound installation in an adjacent dome first - there were the weirdest reflections ever - for example at certain frequencies the sound pooled and was louder in one tiny patch on the other side of the building than 3 m away from the speaker etc etc. When I got it in the main biome it sounded completely different of course. The only thing I can advise you is not to go in with a set idea of how your going to do it but to try different configurations and see what sounds best once your in there - I know its a pain in the neck but these things usually need to be tuned to acoustic peculiarities that are impossible to predict. Its why I always like to have at elast three days before an event to do this. You can read about some the installations herehttp://web.archive.org/web/20110719132826/http://www.edenproject.com/come-and-visit/whats-on/heart-of-darkness.php Hope this helps ! On 18 February 2013 16:47, Neil Waterman neil.water...@asti-usa.com wrote: Greetings, Does anyone on the list have prior experience installing ambi-based 3D sound into 'dome' shaped replay environments? Any tips, specifically on speaker placement, approaches, etc. The problems I am facing include a 12 foot 240 degree partial dome made of fabric, an 18 foot 240 degree partial dome using fiberglass and a much bigger 40 foot 360 degree full dome in fiberglass. All of the above will actually be 1/2 domes in the sense they are not full spheres, but 1/2 a sphere resting on the ground. My only prior experience was with a full sphere, fibre dome that was a nightmare to put sound into… One option for the 40 foot dome is to use a central cluster of directional speakers, hung in a chandelier that would use the dome surface as a virtual speaker through reflection, but I have never tried this. My concern with this is that the listeners (who will be roughly central in all these dome areas) will hear both the direct sound and reflected sound and end-up with a confused mess. For all of these domes there will be an 18 skirt area below the dome that could be used for loudspeakers around
