Re: [biofuel] glycerin
Hi David R. Thank you for taking the time, and I agree on the small plant scenario. I will try to get the first book you mention asap. There is some good info at www.britannica.com . I started out by just entering glycerol, and that is a short entry, three paragraphs, but at the bottom of the paragraphs it says * click here for more info * . That takes you to " soap and detergent " the third paragraph in that is very interesting as it tells how to separate the glycerin from the soap with a saltwater solution. If you have time check it out. The people at www.arserrc.gov filed for a patent ( 08/631,498 ) on 4-12-1996 for a process for "Biodiesel Production with Lipases" and they also were working on a process for " Soapstock for Biodiesel Production ". I tried to find the patent I mentioned at www.uspto.gov but couldn`t locate it . The website says that for a fee you can get a copy of the patents and get a license to use them. I was very aggravated in not being able to find any more info! The soapstock thing sounded terrific ! I also found that the NREL in Colorado also has this technology, the process with the lipase catalyst . I`m sure a lot of us would like to know the details on both these things, especially the soapstock process !! David Cruse - Original Message - From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin > > Hi David C, > Went to town this afternoon and dug out the books on > Glyceryn. Couldnt find one of the ones I wanted but found the other which is > excellent and I would recommend, Dug out 4 books, 2 on Glycerine, and 2 on > Fatty acids or Fatty Alcohols, which are related topics, especially when it > comes to Biod. > Titles: > 1) The Manufacture of Soaps, Other Detergents and Glycerine by Edgar > Woolatt. (formerly Development Manager of Lever Brothers). Published by > Ellis Horwood Ltd, and Halstead Press, div of John Wiley and Sons 1985, ISBN > 0-85312-567-8 (EHL) and ISBN 0-470-20234-3. An excellent and thoroughly > authoritive text. > 2)Glycerine by S.W. Koppe Translated from the German. Published by Scott, > Greenwood & Son, London 1915 > A really old book I normally would not have bothered with but has some > interesting chapters titled: Compounds and decomposition products of > Glycerine, The production of Glycerine, The Production of Pure Glycerine, > and Various applications of Glycerine. Had not seen it before as it was down > in the basement so will at least have a quick scan of it. > > 3) Industrial Fatty Acids and their Applications edited by E. Scott > Pattison, and published by Reinhold Publishing Corp 1959 > Some good photos and line drawings of commercial operations in the States > 4)Fatty Alcohols, Raw Materials, Methods, Uses. Published by Henkel, > Dusseldorf, Germany 1982 > Some good compositional data of various oils etc. > > The first one is the one I would look for and you should learn a lot from > it. > I believe the successful design and manufacture of a small mobile plant is > one of the answers to making biodiesel a feasible product worldwide and > making it viable from an economic point of view. There is a world wide > demand for high quality glycerine which fetches good prices. Prices for the > glycerine could be used to offset shifts in the base raw materials costs. If > a small mobile plant could be put out at realistic cost there would be a > fairly reasonable demand for it. The secret is a cheap energy source as to > distill glycerine you need temperatures in the range of 500 to 600 degrees > and you can imagine how consumptive and expensive this can quickly become at > this temperature range. > I have looked into this before and it is beyond me on a personal level as it > needs a reasonable amount of input and also a reasonable cash input. I > believe the answer is design input from half a dozen people or more and also > financial input from others. > Anyone out there interested in forming a design team and anyone interested > in becoming a financial backer?. > Hope this is of some help to you and others. The answers are out there, the > solution is digging them out and then combining with others to achieve your > goal. Keith, Steve, Aleks, Todd, Ed, and others who add their two cents > everyday and are getting the word out there have moved this industry forward > a long way already but it still has a long way to go. > B.r., David > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yo
[biofuel] Re:Volvo study
Don't normally get drawn into this BUT: Little bird told me that Volvo have invested loadsa money in road fuel gas (LPG) driven vehicles as enviro-freindly fuel. Is this why they chose to knock an even more enviro-freindly fuel Regards Dave Preskett Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodesiel/bioethanol
Hello, I have found this list very interesting - I have been looking at many resources on biofuels for a while now and I noticed that there is a lot of reference to biodesiel, but less to bioethanol. Is biodesiel more environmentally sound? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 'Hybrid' Cars Draw Waiting List of Buyers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35041-2001May2.html (washingtonpost.com) * 'Hybrid' Cars Draw Waiting List of Buyers There is a five-month waiting list for the Toyota Prius. (Todd Cross - The Washington Post) By Frank Swoboda Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, May 3, 2001; Page A01 Gasoline prices are soaring, but there's a small group of car owners who barely take notice. They drive hybrids -- cars that run on both gasoline and electricity and get more than double the mileage, pollute less and -- at about $21,000 -- cost less than the average car. Want one? Get in line. There's a five-month waiting list for the Toyota Prius, because Toyota Motor Corp. doesn't plan to manufacture many. The Prius, roughly the size of a Corolla, can go about 600 miles -- from the District to Boston and halfway back -- on an 11.9-gallon tank of gasoline. There is less demand for the Honda Insight, a two-seat hybrid about the size of a Civic. Unlike the pure electric cars, the hybrids don't need to be plugged in, because the batteries charge themselves every time you hit the brakes, and that has made them a huge hit in the niche they were designed for: the hip, the environmentalists and the technology enthusiasts. The Prius went on sale in the United States last July, the Insight in December 1999. But already these two cars have achieved a certain status, especially on the West Coast, where 25 percent of all hybrids are sold. Hollywood celebrities Donna Mills and Ed Begley Jr. each drive a Prius. Leonardo DiCaprio has two. The environmentally correct car also has a following among politicians, government bureaucrats and environmentalists. Maine Gov. Angus King and Kirk Watson, the mayor of Austin, own Insights. In Maryland, two Republican members of Congress, Reps. Constance A. Morella and Roscoe G. Bartlett, each own a Prius, as do the executive directors of Environmental Defense and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Singer James Taylor owns an Insight. Still, barring a further explosion in the price of gasoline to $3 or $4 a gallon, auto experts don't expect the Prius or Insight to turn into a mass-market star in America, where 17 million vehicles were sold last year. The hottest-selling vehicles in the United States these days are pickup trucks, minivans and sport-utility vehicles, not small cars. Americans love their cars to be powerful, muscular and sexy, and $1.65-a-gallon gas is not enough incentive to change those tastes, especially since, at that price, gasoline is still relatively inexpensive by historical measures when adjusted for inflation. Even Toyota and Honda Motor Co. have modest plans for this first generation of hybrid cars. The two Japanese automakers this year plan to build fewer than 20,000 of the cars between them for sale in the United States. Toyota's manufacturing facilities were set up to produce only 40,000 Priuses a year, because the company was unsure what kind of reception this technology would receive. Half of the Priuses produced are for sale in Japan; of the rest, 12,000 are for the United States. Despite the five-month wait in the United States, Toyota has no plans to ramp up production, because demand is still small compared with that for other cars it sells. General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG do not yet have any hybrid cars but are planning to bring hybrid SUVs vehicles to market in 2003. Hybrid cars combine gasoline engines and electric motors to provide maximum fuel efficiency while polluting less. The Insight has an Environmental Protection Agency rating of 61 and 68 miles per gallon in city and highway driving, respectively, and the Prius is rated at 52 miles per gallon in the city and 45 on the highway. Both cars can achieve speeds of more than 100 mph. The technology is not new. The 1917 Woods was a hybrid using the same basic concepts used in today's cars, including the ability to recharge the battery through the friction of the braking system. Toyota started building the Prius to sell in Japan nearly four years ago in response to growing demand for cars that polluted less and used less gasoline. The hybrid is an interim technology until the auto industry can perfect a workable and affordable storage battery for pure electric cars. The Insight and Prius are designed differently. The Honda Insight has a 67-horsepower, three-cylinder gasoline engine supplemented by an electric motor with a computer that switches power back and forth as conditions demand. In the Prius, the electric motor is the main power plant and it is supplemented by a small gasoline engine. It gets better gas mileage in city driving than it does on the highway, because the car uses the electric motor at slow speeds and switches to the gasoline engine at higher speeds. Electric motors pollute 95 percent less than conventional gasoline engines, according to Toyota. The first Insight sold in M
Re: [biofuel] glycerin
Hi David C, Went to town this afternoon and dug out the books on Glyceryn. Couldnt find one of the ones I wanted but found the other which is excellent and I would recommend, Dug out 4 books, 2 on Glycerine, and 2 on Fatty acids or Fatty Alcohols, which are related topics, especially when it comes to Biod. Titles: 1) The Manufacture of Soaps, Other Detergents and Glycerine by Edgar Woolatt. (formerly Development Manager of Lever Brothers). Published by Ellis Horwood Ltd, and Halstead Press, div of John Wiley and Sons 1985, ISBN 0-85312-567-8 (EHL) and ISBN 0-470-20234-3. An excellent and thoroughly authoritive text. 2)Glycerine by S.W. Koppe Translated from the German. Published by Scott, Greenwood & Son, London 1915 A really old book I normally would not have bothered with but has some interesting chapters titled: Compounds and decomposition products of Glycerine, The production of Glycerine, The Production of Pure Glycerine, and Various applications of Glycerine. Had not seen it before as it was down in the basement so will at least have a quick scan of it. 3) Industrial Fatty Acids and their Applications edited by E. Scott Pattison, and published by Reinhold Publishing Corp 1959 Some good photos and line drawings of commercial operations in the States 4)Fatty Alcohols, Raw Materials, Methods, Uses. Published by Henkel, Dusseldorf, Germany 1982 Some good compositional data of various oils etc. The first one is the one I would look for and you should learn a lot from it. I believe the successful design and manufacture of a small mobile plant is one of the answers to making biodiesel a feasible product worldwide and making it viable from an economic point of view. There is a world wide demand for high quality glycerine which fetches good prices. Prices for the glycerine could be used to offset shifts in the base raw materials costs. If a small mobile plant could be put out at realistic cost there would be a fairly reasonable demand for it. The secret is a cheap energy source as to distill glycerine you need temperatures in the range of 500 to 600 degrees and you can imagine how consumptive and expensive this can quickly become at this temperature range. I have looked into this before and it is beyond me on a personal level as it needs a reasonable amount of input and also a reasonable cash input. I believe the answer is design input from half a dozen people or more and also financial input from others. Anyone out there interested in forming a design team and anyone interested in becoming a financial backer?. Hope this is of some help to you and others. The answers are out there, the solution is digging them out and then combining with others to achieve your goal. Keith, Steve, Aleks, Todd, Ed, and others who add their two cents everyday and are getting the word out there have moved this industry forward a long way already but it still has a long way to go. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps
"NBT - E. Beggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What's say all 600+ members send personal emails to the next person who >can't read an unsubscribe instruction (AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY MESSAGE) >and tell them how to do it, eh? Hi Ed - I'll second that!! (and third and fourth it too!) It's also in the message header. Boy, am I getting sick of sending this same old message again and again: "You have to do that yourself..." These days I've got the whole message on a macro, but still I'm sick of it. As Richard said, "... You managed to subscribe yourself..." Some of them are angry and impatient, they shout, they're in a huff. Sometimes, indeed, Yahoo plays up and makes it difficult for people, but in those cases they mail me direct and tell me the problem, ask for help. So I don't think that's not the problem here. Sigh... Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report
>Volvo sent copies of retraction. >UK - Norman Thomas and Ray Cattley (UK Environmental Manager) >Sweden - Per Olof Ryd (Technical Manager) > >Well done Good, Terry - now let's see if they change their stance or not. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK:
Hello Tim >Well Keith, >I don't know...DO I want to fry rape oil in a pan? -- Until I found & >joined this forum, I had never heard of Rape. But from the little info I >have found it's in the same family (brassica) as Mustard and Canola-- both >of which are edible, and I find quite tasty (especially the German mustards >with the horseradish 'ZING' ;) :-) Rapeseed is the main European oilseed crop. Canola is the Canadian variety. There's lots about it in the archives. Anyway, I think he wasn't just frying it, he was burning it - you know, frying it to death and beyond. Not someone you'd want to have in your kitchen. >As for that feller(Jim Olessen) who likes non standard methods of >'scientific' experimentation, I'll pay for the Nitro if you have some >available to ship to him for the second half of your proposed experiment.(It >WOUILD be polite however to send along a short note declining his invitation >to participate in said experiment, due to unavoidable scheduling >conflicts...you know...the fact that you had planned to live a while longer >yet and just can't attend the experiment. ;) Terry's idea, not mine... but I'd be an interested bystander (at ba considerable difference). >Cheers! >-TZ > >PS: CAN you make Nitroglycerin from the residue of BioD production??(Feel >free to reply directly to my email address above if you'd rather not add >such info to the forum :) I guess you can, probably quite easy to make it - not quite so easy to make it without killing yourself though. Aleks provides some cautions in the acid-base 2-stage process: "DON'T use nitric acid!!" There's quite a lot of info on NitroG here - did you know it's a love potion? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >- Original Message - >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:50 AM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] From the UK: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > >Bio-diesel is 10 times more carcinogenic than low sulphur diesel, > > >exhaust fumes smell like oily chips and running costs are inflated, > > >says Volvo. > > >Responding to a report by the British Association of Bio Fuels, which > > >promoted the fuel as the 'fuel of the future' Volvo claims Bio-diesel > > >is dirtier, smellier and less fuel efficient than low sulphur diesel, > > >and engines are more costly to maintain. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: From the UK:
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > Do you have a source for this? It'd be useful to show what we're >rebutting. > > > > Best > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > >Yes, I failed to provide the link to start with, I could not link to >the article, only to the main site. It was an article from Mike Penny >online editor or www.autoexpress.co.uk Now checking the site, comes >up as MAC user, whatever. It looked as though a transportation related >site and had a NEWS box with a scrolling "biodiesel". I clicked on >biodiesel and retrieved the article as posted. > >Now, if it was a copyright infringement or otherwise illegal or >stupid, can you delete this response? Thanks k5, but what a crappy site - wouldn't let me out of MacUser, and I use a Mac! I couldn't access Autoexpress at all, it kept taking me back to MacUser. Flash, yeah. Flash isn't. I suppose it's called "Design" or something (what about the user? You know, the, er, user?). Grumble grumble... Anyway, this is all I need, thanks - Mike Penny, Online editor, Auto Express UK. And if he publishes a retraction we can have that too. Not a copyright infringement, don't worry about it. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report
Mike Penny, editor of Autoexpress, has been asked to publish a retraction. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] glycerol
where r u? - Original Message - From: Matt Schaid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerol > I run a small soap and toiletries business right now. The web site is > www.cssoap.com but its not up yet because I downed it for improvements. > Anyway, I am just researching biodesiel right now. I would be interested in > the glycerin, as I use it in making more enriched soap(melt and pour soap) > as well as lotion. If anyone ends up with a few lbs to spare, I would love > to get some, expecially to save it from being buried. I would like to > experiment with it more, but i have limited accessibility to it. > If anyone is willing to go to the effort of bottle it up, i would be very > thankful. > Matt > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fogger data collection
In a message dated 05/03/2001 9:24:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Was interested to hear of these air pumps used in late model emmision > control systems. I played with one today. It put out about 2 psi at a fairly lage volume. I have used 12 volt automotive fuel pumps to pump water in the past with good luck. Carberated honda electric pumps are fairly robust and a dime a dozen at the wrecking yards. HTH, Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Vapour Carburetion
In a message dated 05/03/2001 6:56:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > stories covered tests conducted by Ford Motor Company of Canada and others > in which a 1935 Ford V8 fitted with a Pogue Vaporizer got over 200 mpg. Sounds a bit like overunity.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: From the UK:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Bio-diesel is 10 times more carcinogenic than low sulphur diesel, > >exhaust fumes smell like oily chips and running costs are inflated, > >says Volvo. > >Responding to a report by the British Association of Bio Fuels, which > >promoted the fuel as the 'fuel of the future' Volvo claims Bio-diesel > >is dirtier, smellier and less fuel efficient than low sulphur diesel, > >and engines are more costly to maintain. > > > >Despite the move by the Government in the recent Budget to make the > >cost of Bio-diesel 20p per litre less than low sulphur diesel, Volvo > >believes that fleets should think carefully before encouraging its > >drivers to top up with Bio-diesel. > > > >"The most alarming statistic from recent Swedish research says Bio- > >diesel emissions are 10 times more carcinogenic than standard low > >sulphur diesel used in Sweden. Tailpipe emissions of 'smog forming' > >oxides of nitrogen can be up to 40 per cent higher than diesel > >engines. Combine that with a 10 per cent drop in performance and fuel > >consumption when running on pure rape seed oil, the fact your car > >exhaust will constantly smell like oily chips and the fuel's poor low > >temperature performance and the future of Bio-diesel looks grim," a > >Volvo spokesman said. > > Do you have a source for this? It'd be useful to show what we're rebutting. > > Best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ Yes, I failed to provide the link to start with, I could not link to the article, only to the main site. It was an article from Mike Penny online editor or www.autoexpress.co.uk Now checking the site, comes up as MAC user, whatever. It looked as though a transportation related site and had a NEWS box with a scrolling "biodiesel". I clicked on biodiesel and retrieved the article as posted. Now, if it was a copyright infringement or otherwise illegal or stupid, can you delete this response? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel
> Todd, can biodiesel be used unwashed with 50/50 mix of regular no.2 diesel > fuel ans can isoprophl alc. be used instead of boilin after final wash? Thanks .. I would not run an unwashed bio-diesel if you are using the standard methods of manufacture - lye or KOH, not at any blend level, ever. If you were running a solid catalyst that never dissolved into the solution, that would be another matter. But that technology is still being explored. As for isopropyl alcohol, I still don't understand why you would use it unless it is intended as a drying agent. We've never calculated such a process, much less attempted it. It would be interesting if it worked. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] question on biodiesel
I would think that it would depend on the PH level of the biodiesel, also if WVO is used I would definitely wash. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] question on biodiesel
Does anyone know if bio-diesel need to be washed when it is mixed 50/50 wirh regular no.2 diesel fuel? Can isoprophl alc. be used to finish drying after final wash Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] glycerol
I run a small soap and toiletries business right now. The web site is www.cssoap.com but its not up yet because I downed it for improvements. Anyway, I am just researching biodesiel right now. I would be interested in the glycerin, as I use it in making more enriched soap(melt and pour soap) as well as lotion. If anyone ends up with a few lbs to spare, I would love to get some, expecially to save it from being buried. I would like to experiment with it more, but i have limited accessibility to it. If anyone is willing to go to the effort of bottle it up, i would be very thankful. Matt _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel
Todd, can biodiesel be used unwashed with 50/50 mix of regular no.2 diesel fuel ans can isoprophl alc. be used instead of boilin after final wash? Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE hempRe: [biofuel] JIM Befuddling post
Hi Jim and All, --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > An explanation: > My post was a > response (included below) to > someone who, in my opinion, was using the US > gov'ment and the DEA in specific > as scapegoats in his discussion of hemp's reluctance > in becoming a new > biofuel. I was aided in this conclusion by the > post's lack of concrete > detail, sources, or even a cursory objective view. > Hell, my response may have > been unfounded or spurious (or not), but I was just > trying to get a response > as to why the information seemed a bit opinionated. It's hard to even start using something as biofuel when it's illegal, I'd think that would be an obvious point why. Over 10 states have made hemp growing for fuel, medicine and fiber legal despite the DEA. I was talking about the potential of hemp. Regretfully way too little of any kind of biofuels are used now. This is because of massive subidies to the oil co both in favorable tax breaks, I.E. corporate welfare and massive military spending to protect the mideast oil supply. It's been estimated in the Wall Street Journal that the real cost of oil is $100 a barrel. If the real cost was passed thru we could have a big tax break and many RE become feasible at $50 a barrel. Hemp is the best biomass per acre producing crop when pesticides, labor are taken into account. We could cut the coal pollution that I now suffer from the local power plants that are the dirtiest in the nation. As for medicine and recreational use the DEA has been lying about hemp forever. It's nowhere near as dangerous as alcohol, has little side effects as a medicine and they know it. They rather destroy lives than admit they are wrong despite overwhelming evidence that hemp is not dangerous because they would lose some of their jobs. It's time for the DEA to tell the truth about hemp instead of jailing and ruining the lives of many good people like they do. It's not the hemp that's bad, it's the hemp laws that destroy lives. It's amazing that the DEA can live with themselves. Were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson wrong? The revolutionary war was won with hemp rope, clothes, sails, tents, paper, ect and the Declaration of Independence was written on hemp paper. Get your head out of the sand and see reality instead of lying gov propoganda by bureaucrats defending their turf. Love, jerry dycus > > -JIM > > > > < Date: 4/29/2001 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jerry dycus) > Reply-to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Hi Ian and All, > --- ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes there are THC free strains, (but the others > are > > best ;) ) > > ian > I'll smoke to that;-)). > But beyound that hemp grows so fast it crowds > out > any weeds quickly and it's a very light feeder, > using > little or no pesticide or fertilizer. > The pounds of biomass /acre is hugh. Larger than > anything else. > Almost no labor either other than planting and > harvesting. 90 gals of biodiesel and 800/1000 gals > of > methanol per crop and in Fla 4 to 5 crops a year. > Hemp > is hard to beat. > It's a great fabric and rope that will not rot. > As to why it's illegal in 1934 a machine was > designed to seperate the fibers economicly but had > the > misfourtune to be at the same time as Dupont came > out > with rayon, nylon . Popular Machanics declared hemp > the next billion dollar crop. > He was worried the hemp would steal his markets > that he gave J Randolf Hearst a bunch of Dupont > stock > so Hearst would put out a bunch of stories in his > newspapers that hemp was a bad drug that only, > racial > slurs for blacks and Mexicans, do it and become > crazy, > ect. > Then in 1937 their cronies in congress passed the > law making it not a threat to Dupont anymore. > So here we are and one of the best , least side > effect medicines and the answer to our energy, > farmer > problems and we can't use it. It shows that > politicians care more about posturing than helping > our > country. > George Washington and Thomas Jefferson raised and > praised it , if it's good enough for them it's good > enough for me. > I'd like to sue the DEA for fraud, the lying > scum. > jerry dycus __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I misstated the price of corn
mee too--mee too!!! ;) -TZ - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] I misstated the price of corn > > How would one go about purchasing some of that $1.00 per gallon oil?? > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] glycerin
Hi David R. Thanks again. David Cruse - Original Message - From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin > David, > Normally go into the city once or twice a week anyway to get > supplies and other things so no problem. > B.r., David > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I misstated the price of corn
How would one go about purchasing some of that $1.00 per gallon oil?? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe yourself.
Dear Sarah, I am afraid you are barking up the wrong tree. Instead of bombarding the list with unsubscribe requests that the list members can not follow through on, please either goto www.yahoogroups.com and log into your accout and unsubscribe yourself or send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I am sure that as with most people who do what you are doing, you managed to subscribe yourself so unsubscribe yourself. Have a nice day, Richard Hoard > please unsubscribe me from this group > it is too many posts to keep up with thank you > sarah > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --- Runbox Mail Manager - www.runbox.com Free online email application Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Vapour Carburetion
Hi David and All, The only way to get better mileage is to convert more heat to mechanical energy, ie eff.. All a carb does is mix fuel. Fuel injection does this almost perfectly now. There's not a chance in h--- that a vapor/ prouge or other types of carbs will do better unless you have discovered new physics we don't know about. As homey would say, I don't think so. For better fuel mileage you need to change more of the heat into work. You can do this by running the engine at a higher temp, a smaller engine, lower friction bearings, slower piston speeds, use the exhaust to power the water pump and alt, syn engine oils, syn trans oils,turn it off when not needed like while braking or sitting, lightening the vehicle weight, cutting aero drag, ect. There are no secret ways to better gas mileage, in 120 years every thing has been explored that works. As a 200 mile carb would be worth more than a trillion dollars on todays market you couldn't keep it secret for long if true. At 200 mile per gal you would be 300 to 500% eff, not going to happen. jerry dycus --- David Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Put the message below on last night to see if anyone > would pick up on it but > as of yet no one. > Ray Covey inventor of the Covey Low Temp.Vaporizer > more or less said that > some of his inspiration and ideas came from Charles > Nelson Pogue inventor of > the Pogue Vaporizer in the mid 1930s who > mysteriously disappeared after > newspaper stories on his invention caused oil > company stocks to drop. These > stories covered tests conducted by Ford Motor > Company of Canada and others > in which a 1935 Ford V8 fitted with a Pogue > Vaporizer got over 200 mpg. The > same vaporizers are reported to have been used by US > Tank Corps in North > Africa on long range Sherman Tanks, jeeps, and other > vehicles. The Sherman > was definitely a short range tank. These reports are > supported by men who > served in the US Tank Corps who have stated that > some type of secret vapor > carburetor, marked property of a big US oil company, > was installed in their > tanks and greatly increased operational range. Field > Marshall Rommel is also > reported to have written in his writings "If it had > not been for America's > long range tanks, the outcome of the desert war > would have been different". > In the past Ford Canada have denied any knowledge of > these tests but there > seems to be enough documented evidence from others > who conducted the tests > as well to more or less prove that the test vehicle > did this sort of > mileage. Most of the tests conducted involved > running the vehicle out of gas > and then seeing how far they could drive it on a > pint, all of which exceeded > 25 miles, and 2 that involved a gallon and exceeded > 200mpg. > I believe this warrants further investigation. > The following Pogue Patent Nos. are probably worth > investigating: 1,750,354, > 3/11/30; 1,938,497, 12/5/33; 1,997,497 4/9/35; > 2,026,798, 1/7/36 > Wether all the details are there and anyone would > turn up all the > information after all this time is doubtful but it > is perhaps worth trying. > Some of the Covey results achieved in the mid 80s > were not too far below the > Pogue ones. something like 144mpg with a heavy 400 > CID Chrysler > B.r., David > > > Which brings me to another point. Has anyone out > there ever had anything > to > > do with Ray Covey's Vapour Carburetion Conversion > Systems? Do they know > much > > about them and did they ever really work properly? > Believe with the Mark > 5 > > system he managed to obtain something like 72 mpg > (US gal = 3.785Litres) > > with a V8. This equates to 19 miles per litre or > just over 30 km per > litre. > > Perhaps it is time for people to look at this > aspect again. I am sure with > > the rapid developments in modern computers a lot > of these old ideas might > > enjoy a new lease of life with vast improvements > easily obtainable in the > > right hands. > > B.r., David > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] glycerin
David, Normally go into the city once or twice a week anyway to get supplies and other things so no problem. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Stainless Steel Tank Sources
Thanks k5, David Cruse - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Stainless Steel Tank Sources > Another source of SS tanks is most dairy farms that no longer produce > milk(there are millions of them) most had a bulk tank from 500-5000 > gallon capacity, insulated and chillable. Not much of a cash market, > so the plate of cookies and ya know. > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "david e cruse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Todd, > > > > Thanks for the info on the tanks. > > > > David Cruse > > - Original Message - > > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 8:22 PM > > Subject: [biofuel] Stainless Steel Tank Sources > > > > > > > http://www.upe.com/GetSubCat.html/786 > > > > > > http://www.4tank.com/stainless_tanks1.htm > > > > > > http://www.winetanks.com/ > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK - natural gas reserves
Now, here's an interesting one! I have been asked to appear before the Energy Committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly as a sort of "expert* witness" to comment on the publication - Vision 2010 - Energy Action Plan. I found it full of bull about the benefits of natural gas, which rather got up my nose, so I decided to do some digging. I tried to find gas statistics on DTI website. Nothing. I e'd a contact address given, then went hunting on the web. On a American site I found UK statistics - UK proven gas reserves - 26.7 trillion cu ft Annual consumption (1999) - 3.259 trillion cu ft Divide one by the other and you get 8 years supply guaranteed. So I rang the DTI statistics guy the following day - Yes, those figures are right, he says, but there is more to be found - probables and possibles. Then I had a reply from DTI Oil and Gas Directorate to my e - Proven plus probable reserves - 1.195 billion cu metres Annual consumption (2000) - 97 BCM Divide etc gives 12 years supply I know from a DETR renewables report that UK has no plans to replace any nuclear capacity, other than with gas and highly clean coal burner generators. A successor to NFFO (renewables) has yet to be announced by MAFF. There is no follow-on to ARBRE biomass plant in the pipeline. What the friggin hell is going on? More to the point - does it apply in your country, too? *Definition of "expert" - X is the unknown quantity a spurt is a drip under pressure Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] glycerin
Hi David R., Hey if they are that far away, don`t worry about them. I`ll get around to the Mall, there is a Borders Book store there and it`s not a 40 k hike to the place. Thanks, David Cruse - Original Message - From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin > Nope sorry changed my mind. No seriously will try and remember. Books are > held by Auckland Public Library (40 km away) so will try to look next time I > go into the city if it is open. > B.r., David > > - Original Message - > From: david e cruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 12:21 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin > > > > Hi David R. > > > > Thank you , I will remind you later on. > > > > Thanks again, > > David Cruse > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Distillation
Craig ( Green Bay ) Yes those units will work for methanol/ethanol recovery when you`re making biodiesel. Cost would be your only consideration. I have seen the same kind of equipment on other websites. David Cruse - Original Message - From: "cpech" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 11:54 PM Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol Distillation > I have been looking at a product for distilling ethanol (a solvent recovery unit) and am not enough of an engineer to tell if it will work - the salesman assures me it will. See the unit at www.rescience.com. His name is Tome Graves ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). > > Can any of you people tell me more? If it does what they say it will, it is a HUGE leap forward. He says someone is using it to make ethanol for mixing biofuel. > > Craig > Green Bay, WI > > > -- -- > > We support environmentally friendly advertising. Green Bay (920) 434-4555 > Appleton (920) 731-9292 > 1-800-985-9000 > email > > Free shopping coupons from AmeriCoupons.com > > To be removed from future mailings simply reply to this message with "Remove" in the subject line. > > > -- -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps
- Original Message - From: NBT - E. Beggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps > What's say all 600+ members send personal emails to the next person who > can't read an unsubscribe instruction (AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY MESSAGE) > and tell them how to do it, eh? Hell I just thought Keith was trying to get rid of me. Cant be very bright can I? Am always amused by some of these unsubscribe messages and often wonder how much of an email some people read. Imagine getting 500 or 600 e-mails all telling you the same thing. Do you think some people would get the message after that? Always remember when I started with my current ISP who had a very helpful and extremely knowledgeable tech. They had a bulletin board up where people could go to solve their problems. You would be amazed at how many people would keep asking the most simple questions rather than exercising their mind or searching out the most basic info. Even this tech would get pissed off at times and put RTFI on the tail end of a message. Always tried to figure out what it meant for a little while until one day after he had been asked the same question half a dozen times I saw he had virtually written it out in full: Read the f---ing information. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report
Any listing or posting of the retraction? I emailed and phoned Volvo USA and the main website. - Original Message - From: "Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report > Volvo sent copies of retraction. > UK - Norman Thomas and Ray Cattley (UK Environmental Manager) > Sweden - Per Olof Ryd (Technical Manager) > > Well done > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report
Volvo sent copies of retraction. UK - Norman Thomas and Ray Cattley (UK Environmental Manager) Sweden - Per Olof Ryd (Technical Manager) Well done Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps
What's say all 600+ members send personal emails to the next person who can't read an unsubscribe instruction (AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY MESSAGE) and tell them how to do it, eh? - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps > remove me from mailing list > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: standards
Yes, good point. Need to get the standards out there, as well as handy, inexpensive test procedures for small producers. Ed B. - Original Message - From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] From the UK: Volvo/Chalmers/Study Misrepresented > Thanks Ed, > Yeah they are here in the most technologically advanced > countries alright but in a lot of countries they dont yet exist. In 5 years > they will probably exist almost everywhere but what worries me a little bit > is that in the meantime quite a bit of harm can be done to this developing > industry by bad manufacturing processes and adverse publicity as a result. > B.r., David > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK: Volvo/Chalmers/Study Misrepresented
Thanks Ed, Yeah they are here in the most technologically advanced countries alright but in a lot of countries they dont yet exist. In 5 years they will probably exist almost everywhere but what worries me a little bit is that in the meantime quite a bit of harm can be done to this developing industry by bad manufacturing processes and adverse publicity as a result. B.r., David > The fuel standards exist in Austria, Germany, the USA, other countires > likely have their versions as well. Also soon in Canada, I understand. > > Best, > > Ed B. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Moderation + topics
remove me from mailing list Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] alternate foggers
remove me from mailing list Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] glycerol
remove me from mailing list Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Nitrated glycerides
Yup Just call me stumpy! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps
remove me from mailing list Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK:
Well Keith, I don't know...DO I want to fry rape oil in a pan? -- Until I found & joined this forum, I had never heard of Rape. But from the little info I have found it's in the same family (brassica) as Mustard and Canola-- both of which are edible, and I find quite tasty (especially the German mustards with the horseradish 'ZING' ;) As for that feller(Jim Olessen) who likes non standard methods of 'scientific' experimentation, I'll pay for the Nitro if you have some available to ship to him for the second half of your proposed experiment.(It WOUILD be polite however to send along a short note declining his invitation to participate in said experiment, due to unavoidable scheduling conflicts...you know...the fact that you had planned to live a while longer yet and just can't attend the experiment. ;) Cheers! -TZ PS: CAN you make Nitroglycerin from the residue of BioD production??(Feel free to reply directly to my email address above if you'd rather not add such info to the forum :) - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] From the UK: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Bio-diesel is 10 times more carcinogenic than low sulphur diesel, > >exhaust fumes smell like oily chips and running costs are inflated, > >says Volvo. > >Responding to a report by the British Association of Bio Fuels, which > >promoted the fuel as the 'fuel of the future' Volvo claims Bio-diesel > >is dirtier, smellier and less fuel efficient than low sulphur diesel, > >and engines are more costly to maintain. > > > >Despite the move by the Government in the recent Budget to make the > >cost of Bio-diesel 20p per litre less than low sulphur diesel, Volvo > >believes that fleets should think carefully before encouraging its > >drivers to top up with Bio-diesel. > > > >"The most alarming statistic from recent Swedish research says Bio- > >diesel emissions are 10 times more carcinogenic than standard low > >sulphur diesel used in Sweden. Tailpipe emissions of 'smog forming' > >oxides of nitrogen can be up to 40 per cent higher than diesel > >engines. Combine that with a 10 per cent drop in performance and fuel > >consumption when running on pure rape seed oil, the fact your car > >exhaust will constantly smell like oily chips and the fuel's poor low > >temperature performance and the future of Bio-diesel looks grim," a > >Volvo spokesman said. > > Damn - this Jim Olssen BS again. Aren't we ever going to get rid of > this junk science? That's what happens when you burn the stuff in a > frying pan, not quite the same thing as under compression in a diesel > motor. But Jim just won't see it that way (maybe because it might fry > his career - well, so what, who'd cry?). > > It caused a big fuss at the time, when part of the report of Olssen's > "study" was reported by Reuters. He blamed Reuters, but they weren't > at fault, it was the study itself that was junk. > > Terry De Winne was involved in trying to get the guy to see some > reason. This is what he said later: > > "... point out that a basic > principle of common sense (a commodity also applied to science experiments) > dictates that you cannot compare like with unlike. > > "I drew Jim Olssen's attention to nitro-glycerine (what not to do with your > excess glycerol) and suggested that I should visit him, bringing with me two > flasks of the substance. We would carry out two experiments. > > "In the first, I would pour the NG on to his bench and set light to it. He > would see that it burnt, giving off a black, oil smoke. > > "In the second, I would drop the flask on to the floor. If we survived, we > would then compare the smoke emissions of the two experiments and see how > different they were. > > "The disturbing thing was, he took me seriously!" > > Sums it up, I think! > > And no, Tim, not corraborated, unless you too would like to burn some > rapeseed oil in a frying pan. > > I'll forward this to Jenna Higgins at the NBB, who'll take some > action (I've done this before...). > > Best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe me
please unsubscribe me from this group it is too many posts to keep up with thank you sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe me
please unsubscribe me from this group it is too many posts to keep up with thank you sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe me
please unsubscribe me from this group it is too many posts to keep up with thank you sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe me
please unsubscribe me from this group it is too many posts to keep up with thank you sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe me
please unsubscribe me from this group it is too many posts to keep up with thank you sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] please unsunscribe me
please unsubscribe me from this group it is too many posts to keep up with thank you sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Bio-diesel is 10 times more carcinogenic than low sulphur diesel, >exhaust fumes smell like oily chips and running costs are inflated, >says Volvo. >Responding to a report by the British Association of Bio Fuels, which >promoted the fuel as the 'fuel of the future' Volvo claims Bio-diesel >is dirtier, smellier and less fuel efficient than low sulphur diesel, >and engines are more costly to maintain. > >Despite the move by the Government in the recent Budget to make the >cost of Bio-diesel 20p per litre less than low sulphur diesel, Volvo >believes that fleets should think carefully before encouraging its >drivers to top up with Bio-diesel. > >"The most alarming statistic from recent Swedish research says Bio- >diesel emissions are 10 times more carcinogenic than standard low >sulphur diesel used in Sweden. Tailpipe emissions of 'smog forming' >oxides of nitrogen can be up to 40 per cent higher than diesel >engines. Combine that with a 10 per cent drop in performance and fuel >consumption when running on pure rape seed oil, the fact your car >exhaust will constantly smell like oily chips and the fuel's poor low >temperature performance and the future of Bio-diesel looks grim," a >Volvo spokesman said. Do you have a source for this? It'd be useful to show what we're rebutting. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Land Rover 2 1/4 Diesel
Hello Dave >Fellows BD'ers, >Anyone with experience of the Land Rover 2 1/4 litre diesel engine with >either straight veg oil and/or biodiesel? Failing that, Sherpa 2.5 diesel. >Any changes to seals and/or timing required. Any info appreciated. Same as >yours Keith, Lightweight 2.25 petrol in need of transplant (and the BD is >easier than ethanol - sure you'll understand). >mad Dave UK Yes, I understand! We ran our 109 diesel on biodiesel in Hong Kong, but not for very long (we left). It worked fine, but the mileage wasn't high enough for probs such as with rubber fuel system parts to emerge. That's what you'll have to check - check this table: "Durability of Various Plastics: Alcohols vs. Gasoline", see Methanol. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me2.html#table Also, check the fuel filter often at first - bd loosens up all the gunge dino-d leaves in the tank and elsewhere. Are you sure you want to go for a Land Rover 2286 diesel mill? Ours was okay, they're good, yes, but they could sure use more power. I'm toying with the idea of a 3.9 Isuzu diesel, like the Australian Mark 1 (?) Land Rovers of circa 1980. Guys who have them love them. Might be a bit big for a lightweight though. Also we want to have at least one petrol vehicle. >PS IMPORTANT VIRUS WARNING >Latest from another newsgroup I'm on: >e-mails with the sender "maurizio mencuccini" - delete it and don't open >it - there's a virus in the attatchment. Someone put this out as a seperate >message Thanks, but not a problem here - this list won't allow attachments. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report
>Thanks for the cutting - I will be taking this up with Volvo, as I suggest >anybody else in a position to do so does. >This is based on a Reuters report last year, which said that Jim Olsson had >obtained these results. Fair enough - he did - but by burning biodiesel in >air at 550 deg C - vastly different from burning in an internal combustion >engine. Jim was most adamant, during our exchange, that his results were >right - and so they were. But Reuters reported them wrongly, as a result of >a phone conversation with Jim, whose English is not perfect. >Do all you can to scotch this one, gentle readers. Hi Terry Sure will - now we have the ammunition at last. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK:
>Keith and all: Disseminate this, from Chalmers, to everyone you ever come >across. Cross post it, print it, put it on your web site, link, issue a >press release shout it from the rooftops. It'll do more good than ranting >about Olsson. Then maybe we can all put this behind us once and for all. >And somebody locate that Volvo guy and make him a crash test dummy for >Volvo's next ad campaign. > >http://www.chalmers.se/Nyheter/2001/vecka08/rapsolja.html > >Ed B. My word, Ed, you are doing well! Jenna Higgens at the NBB just sent me the same thing, but without the link. Here's her message: Keith, Thanks for the update. Chalmers U. made a statement about the study. Have you seen it? It is attached. Maybe someone in the U.K. should get it to Volvo. Jenna Higgins Director of Communications National Biodiesel Board 3337-A Emerald Lane P.O. Box 104898 Jefferson City, MO 65110-4898 (800) 841-5849 http://www.biodiesel.org I hope someone takes her up on that, and I think on your suggestion for a movie role for the Volvo guy too. :-) Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >--- >L > > > > Damn - this Jim Olssen BS again. Aren't we ever going to get rid of > > this junk science? That's what happens when you burn the stuff in a > > frying pan, not quite the same thing as under compression in a diesel > > motor. But Jim just won't see it that way (maybe because it might fry > > his career - well, so what, who'd cry?). > > > > It caused a big fuss at the time, when part of the report of Olssen's > > "study" was reported by Reuters. He blamed Reuters, but they weren't > > at fault, it was the study itself that was junk. > > > > > > > I'll forward this to Jenna Higgins at the NBB, who'll take some > > action (I've done this before...). > > > > Best > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK: Volvo/Chalmers/Study Misrepresented
Hello Ed >This link explains some of it. The scientist's work was fine, but was not >done in an engine, so the emissions results are not the same as from a >diesel engine. The trouble is that he insists they are the same. >Volvo provides some funding for projects at the centre where >the thesis originated (Chalmers Institute in Sweden). What their reasoning >is I do not know, perhaps they are heavily invested in other technology? >(natural gas, catalysts as an end-of-pipe solution, smog-eating radiators, >etc.). Reuters muddied the waters in the way the results were reported and >now it is a classic scare story distilled down in people's minds to >"biodiesel 10 times more carcinogenic than diesel", not correct. > >Or as Og says to Thag: "Biodiesel BAD, diesel GOOD!" (Where is Gary Larsen >when we need him?) > > One (or a few) substances, produced at low temperature combustion, that are >indeed carcinogenic, and produced at 10x level as compared to petrodiesel, >in a lab test, does not equate to a cancer risk. > >What OTHER substances, found in petrodieselexhaust, DO pose a known cancer >risk? Let's see comparisons on that basis. According to an EPA study completed at the University of California at Davis, the use of pure biodiesel instead of petroleum-based diesel fuel could offer a 93.6% reduction in cancer risks from emissions exposure. I've tried hard to find this study report. It's quoted by various industry people, and one of them promised to send it to me but never did. > Risk assessment based on exposure required to produce an effect (cancer) >and a determination of the severity of that effect if present would be in >order before any cancer risk could be pronounced - for workers standing >next to lab ovens or similar devices that were burning RME. Even that >determination if it were made would not be applicable to exhaust emissions >because of differing combustion characteristics inside a diesel engine. > >http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/pressr_rapeseed_18012001.htm That's a good ref, well done! Thanks! Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >The fuel standards exist in Austria, Germany, the USA, other countires >likely have their versions as well. Also soon in Canada, I understand. > >Best, > >Ed B. > > > From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 01:29:44 +1200 > > To: > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] From the UK: > > > > Shows what a bit of bad publicity can achieve. If people look back and > > remember this group discussed a very adverse report that was put >out by some > > so called Swedish scientist two or three months ago. Volvo have probably > > picked up on this and continued down the same path. > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Volvo/Swedish biodiesel report
Thanks for the cutting - I will be taking this up with Volvo, as I suggest anybody else in a position to do so does. This is based on a Reuters report last year, which said that Jim Olsson had obtained these results. Fair enough - he did - but by burning biodiesel in air at 550 deg C - vastly different from burning in an internal combustion engine. Jim was most adamant, during our exchange, that his results were right - and so they were. But Reuters reported them wrongly, as a result of a phone conversation with Jim, whose English is not perfect. Do all you can to scotch this one, gentle readers. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK:
Keith and all: Disseminate this, from Chalmers, to everyone you ever come across. Cross post it, print it, put it on your web site, link, issue a press release shout it from the rooftops. It'll do more good than ranting about Olsson. Then maybe we can all put this behind us once and for all. And somebody locate that Volvo guy and make him a crash test dummy for Volvo's next ad campaign. http://www.chalmers.se/Nyheter/2001/vecka08/rapsolja.html Ed B. --- L > > Damn - this Jim Olssen BS again. Aren't we ever going to get rid of > this junk science? That's what happens when you burn the stuff in a > frying pan, not quite the same thing as under compression in a diesel > motor. But Jim just won't see it that way (maybe because it might fry > his career - well, so what, who'd cry?). > > It caused a big fuss at the time, when part of the report of Olssen's > "study" was reported by Reuters. He blamed Reuters, but they weren't > at fault, it was the study itself that was junk. > > > I'll forward this to Jenna Higgins at the NBB, who'll take some > action (I've done this before...). > > Best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Stainless Steel Tank Sources
Another source of SS tanks is most dairy farms that no longer produce milk(there are millions of them) most had a bulk tank from 500-5000 gallon capacity, insulated and chillable. Not much of a cash market, so the plate of cookies and ya know. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "david e cruse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Todd, > > Thanks for the info on the tanks. > > David Cruse > - Original Message - > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 8:22 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Stainless Steel Tank Sources > > > > http://www.upe.com/GetSubCat.html/786 > > > > http://www.4tank.com/stainless_tanks1.htm > > > > http://www.winetanks.com/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK:
Thanks Keith :) - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] From the UK: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Bio-diesel is 10 times more carcinogenic than low sulphur diesel, > >exhaust fumes smell like oily chips and running costs are inflated, > >says Volvo. > >Responding to a report by the British Association of Bio Fuels, which > >promoted the fuel as the 'fuel of the future' Volvo claims Bio-diesel > >is dirtier, smellier and less fuel efficient than low sulphur diesel, > >and engines are more costly to maintain. > > > >Despite the move by the Government in the recent Budget to make the > >cost of Bio-diesel 20p per litre less than low sulphur diesel, Volvo > >believes that fleets should think carefully before encouraging its > >drivers to top up with Bio-diesel. > > > >"The most alarming statistic from recent Swedish research says Bio- > >diesel emissions are 10 times more carcinogenic than standard low > >sulphur diesel used in Sweden. Tailpipe emissions of 'smog forming' > >oxides of nitrogen can be up to 40 per cent higher than diesel > >engines. Combine that with a 10 per cent drop in performance and fuel > >consumption when running on pure rape seed oil, the fact your car > >exhaust will constantly smell like oily chips and the fuel's poor low > >temperature performance and the future of Bio-diesel looks grim," a > >Volvo spokesman said. > > Damn - this Jim Olssen BS again. Aren't we ever going to get rid of > this junk science? That's what happens when you burn the stuff in a > frying pan, not quite the same thing as under compression in a diesel > motor. But Jim just won't see it that way (maybe because it might fry > his career - well, so what, who'd cry?). > > It caused a big fuss at the time, when part of the report of Olssen's > "study" was reported by Reuters. He blamed Reuters, but they weren't > at fault, it was the study itself that was junk. > > Terry De Winne was involved in trying to get the guy to see some > reason. This is what he said later: > > "... point out that a basic > principle of common sense (a commodity also applied to science experiments) > dictates that you cannot compare like with unlike. > > "I drew Jim Olssen's attention to nitro-glycerine (what not to do with your > excess glycerol) and suggested that I should visit him, bringing with me two > flasks of the substance. We would carry out two experiments. > > "In the first, I would pour the NG on to his bench and set light to it. He > would see that it burnt, giving off a black, oil smoke. > > "In the second, I would drop the flask on to the floor. If we survived, we > would then compare the smoke emissions of the two experiments and see how > different they were. > > "The disturbing thing was, he took me seriously!" > > Sums it up, I think! > > And no, Tim, not corraborated, unless you too would like to burn some > rapeseed oil in a frying pan. > > I'll forward this to Jenna Higgins at the NBB, who'll take some > action (I've done this before...). > > Best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Automakers, environmentalists agree on clean vehicle tax credits
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2001/04/2 4/national1643EDT0692.DTL Automakers, environmentalists agree on clean vehicle tax credits NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer Tuesday, April 24, 2001 Breaking News Sections (04-24) 13:43 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- Several major automakers and environmental groups have joined forces for the first time to support tax credits to promote cleaner vehicles and reduce fuel consumption. Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., along with the Union of Concerned Scientists, Natural Resources Defense Council and other environmental groups, announced support Tuesday for legislation offering credits to people who buy cleaner motor vehicles. The credits range from $1,000 for hybrid passenger vehicles that use electricity to supplement a gas engine, to $40,000 for a heavy-duty truck that runs on electricity or fuel cells with no harmful emissions. The bill also provides credits for people to buy alternative fuels such as natural gas and hydrogen and for companies to install alternative fueling stations. The legislation ``leaves it up to the consumer to choose from among the lowest-emitting and most fuel-efficient vehicles available,'' said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, who was joined at a news conference by Sens. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., and Jim Jeffords, R-Vt. Supporters estimate the cost at $8 billion to $10 billion over 10 years. Ford President Jacques Nasser said the bill ``will help accelerate demand for cleaner, more fuel-efficient vehicles in the marketplace and put them on the road earlier and in higher volumes.'' Environmentalists signed onto the plan because a vehicle that gets more miles per gallon would get a bigger tax credit. Officials from General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG said they support tax incentives, but disagree with the way the bill calculates fuel improvements. For instance, DaimlerChrysler plans to begin selling a hybrid version of its Durango sport utility vehicle in 2003, which will use an electric motor tied to a battery pack to increase mileage 20 percent from 15.5 miles per gallon to about 18.6. The hybrid technology costs about $3,000 more than a regular engine. Under the plan announced Tuesday, the hybrid Durango would qualify for the $1,000 base tax credit, but none of the additional $3,000 performance-based credit. Only two hybrid passenger vehicles are sold in the United States -- Toyota's Prius, which gets 61 mpg in the city, and Honda's Insight, which gets 52 mpg. Ford plans to sell a hybrid version of its Escape in 2003. Not all environmental groups are supporting the Hatch bill. The Sierra Club supports higher requirements for gas mileage rather than tax credits. Sierra Club spokesman Dan Becker said the Hatch bill would not force automakers to improve the overall gas mileage of their fleets because sales of the high-mileage vehicles would allow them to continue making low-mileage vehicles such as SUVs. In the midst of the oil crisis of the 1970s, federal standards were set at 27.5 miles per gallon on new passenger cars and 20.7 mpg for light trucks, including pickups, minivans and sport utility vehicles. The automakers do not have to meet the standard for each vehicle but for their entire fleet. ``At the end of the day and several billion dollars of taxpayer investment, we'll have no more improvement to the environment and no less dependence on oil, but more hybrids on the road,'' he said. On the Net: Sen. Orrin Hatch: hatch.senate.gov Union of Concerned Scientists: www.ucsusa.org Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers: www.autoalliance.org ©2001 Associated Press Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] From the UK: Volvo/Chalmers/Study Misrepresented
This link explains some of it. The scientist's work was fine, but was not done in an engine, so the emissions results are not the same as from a diesel engine. Volvo provides some funding for projects at the centre where the thesis originated (Chalmers Institute in Sweden). What their reasoning is I do not know, perhaps they are heavily invested in other technology? (natural gas, catalysts as an end-of-pipe solution, smog-eating radiators, etc.). Reuters muddied the waters in the way the results were reported and now it is a classic scare story distilled down in people's minds to "biodiesel 10 times more carcinogenic than diesel", not correct. Or as Og says to Thag: "Biodiesel BAD, diesel GOOD!" (Where is Gary Larsen when we need him?) One (or a few) substances, produced at low temperature combustion, that are indeed carcinogenic, and produced at 10x level as compared to petrodiesel, in a lab test, does not equate to a cancer risk. What OTHER substances, found in petrodieselexhaust, DO pose a known cancer risk? Let's see comparisons on that basis. Risk assessment based on exposure required to produce an effect (cancer) and a determination of the severity of that effect if present would be in order before any cancer risk could be pronounced - for workers standing next to lab ovens or similar devices that were burning RME. Even that determination if it were made would not be applicable to exhaust emissions because of differing combustion characteristics inside a diesel engine. http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/pressr_rapeseed_18012001.htm The fuel standards exist in Austria, Germany, the USA, other countires likely have their versions as well. Also soon in Canada, I understand. Best, Ed B. > From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 01:29:44 +1200 > To: > Subject: Re: [biofuel] From the UK: > > Shows what a bit of bad publicity can achieve. If people look back and > remember this group discussed a very adverse report that was put out by some > so called Swedish scientist two or three months ago. Volvo have probably > picked up on this and continued down the same path. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
