Re: [biofuel] Alcohol from waste paper?

[Appal Energy]

Marc,

Could you give some clarification as to theoretical yields of ethanol,
methanol and other "value added" byproducts per metric ton of paper
feedstock in the scenario you mention below, as well as energy inputs?

One could use yield data from virgin pulpwood as "baseline" and venture
forward.

Also, I must ask why you wish to lash out at those who initiate mandatory
recycling, when the eventual unintended consequences occur. Had such
programs not been instituted, none of the benefits over the last 1/4 century
would have been realized either.

One of the predominant opportunities today created by legislative actions of
past decades is the conversion of these stockpiles to pellet type fuel
sources for industry and electrical steam boilers - just another form of
biomass, delayed until maximum pulp utility has been achieved. Even with the
sulfur and other additives included during paper manufacture and printing,
it's a cleaner fuel than coal, especially when considering coal's heavy
metals emissions.

The reason for price drops for retrieved waste paper is that the % of
recovery relative to pulp industry re-use is imbalanced, creating a glut.
The problem has never been with recovery, but gearing up and reconfiguring
the pulp and paper industry. They have been petulant and, for the most part,
fought the process virulently for 25 years, claiming that retrofits were too
expensive until maximum mechanical utility had been realized on existing
plants.

Even when the old plants "die," few serious industry attempts are made to
configure new plants to maximize on retrieved fiber sources. It's not that
the opportunities and technologies don't exist, rather the lack of
responsibility and vision.

It takes time to create and change infrastructure - lifetimes. The
foundations have and are being laid. It's time to start putting up the walls
and tiling the roof.

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> I refer of course to waste paper. Most waste paper is newsprint, which
> is short-fiber "mechanical" pulp made from ground wood. When repulped,
> it has to be mixed with a large proportion of new fiber to make decent
> paper because of the short fibers. It also contains a lot of lignin and
> other unstable compounds, so that paper made from it is unstable as well
> as weak. With mandatory recycling going into effect in many places, the
> "price" of recycled newsprint is going negative in some areas - that is,
> the pulp mills must be paid to take it. Other uses are being found for
> it - mulching, insulation - but basically it goes begging.
>
> Now imagine a paper-alcohol plant attached to a biodiesel plant. Not
> only can the ethanol be used for biodiesel production, but the residue
> still contains some lignin, which can give methanol on dry distillation.
> The unfermentable sugars give furfural and other compounds useful in
> organic synthesis.
>
> Everybody wins:
>
> - community recycling projects can start getting paid again (and the
> politicians who pushed through mandatory recycling without considering
> the consequences can start breathing again).
>
> - ethanol is produced without any impact on agricultural commodity
> prices.
>
>
> Best to all,
> Marc de Piolenc



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RE: [biofuel]gas to diesel conversion

[Dana Linscott]

There are usually so many differences in autos that
even if a model of your vehicle was offered by the
manufacturer with a diesel engine it is not worth
attempting to convert. If there was no diesel model of
your vehicle it will be even more time consuming and
experimental in nature. Unfortunately most auto
manufacturers don't make any provision for just
"plugging in" another engine/transmission. The wiring
harness will be engine specific as will be the
transmission and associated linkage. Since diesel
engines are generally heavier suspension changes will
have to be made as well. Exhaust systems and
drivetrains are also generally slightly different. It
is likely that after a whole lot of effort and money
invested in a conversion of your current auto to
diesel it will not be nearly as energy efficient as
one originally designed to run on diesel.

Have you considered selling your gas powered auto and
purchasing a good used diesel powered with the
proceeds. If your time is worth anything it should
more than make up for the difference in cost and if it
doesn't the increased efficiency of a well engineered
design should. You may wish to consider using your
mechanical talents to convert such a Purchased" diesel
auto to SVO...as it may simplefy your process of
fuelling it (as opposed to producing Biodiesel).

Good luck,
Dana Linscott


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Global Warming 101: was Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[gjkimlin]

Global warming is an interesting term. The greenhouse effect, 
relative to the way man's activities are altering the composition of 
the atmosphere, surely must alter the way heat is transfered from 
near the surface of the earth to the upper atmosphere. If the ground 
warms significantly more in summer, then the mixing effects, as heat 
is transfered to and from polar regions, would likely be more 
violent. Not that the storms of the Southern Ocean aren't violent now.
What is odd is that while we may expect more summer days above X 
degrees, we also expect more winter days below -X degrees. Here in 
spring the day temperature may reach 35 degrees celcius and still 
drop to 5 degrees by the next morning. Naturally you need to closely 
watch the opening of the glasshouse. My experience of the tropics is 
that this diurnal range doesn't occur and I gather that it would be 
unusual in temperate regions too. Our subtropical weather has been 
quite unpredictable for decades, particularly rainfall. Tropical 
weather, especially regards monsoons, is also fickle. Unpredictable 
cycles of drought and flood affect productivity and viability.
Places the consider a week without rain a drought may be in for a 
shock. There may be mitigating effects, like will the thawing of 
continental ice be balanced by more atmospheric water and more 
rainfall on land. Melting sea ice has no effect on volume and the 
idea that oceans can be effectively heated enough from above to 
expand significantly is incredible. There seem to be more conflicting 
processes than I can deal with, but even so the question on global 
warming is not whether it will, or is happening, rather what changes 
will we observe. I feel that it is more subtle than a measurable 
change in average daily temperatures and at the same time more 
worrying..
Regards Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This hotlink is for those who think that what I'm about to say is 
horse
> muffins. It's a simple compound interest table. Oddly enough, this 
has
> everything to do with biofuels.
> 
> http://www.cashflowzone.com/compound_interest.htm
> 
> Think about this for a minute. Assuming at worste that no 
one "knows" if
> global warming is a reality effected by human pursuit (a bit 
unrealistic,
> but none-the-less...), then the following analogy is perfectly 
accurate.
> 
> I figure that over the past 24 years, I have paid about $7,200 in 
auto
> insurance. I haven't made but two claims but once during that 
period - a
> broken windscreen and an emergency tow.
> 
> Funny, every time I get in a car, I don't really know for certain 
if I'll be
> driving it home intact or not. I have for 24 years. But I might not.
> 
> Still, just in case, I pay the premium. And should I crumple 
someone else's
> quarter panel or run over their prize winning gerbil (or worse), I 
needn't
> worry considerably about being on a bread and water diet for the 
rest of my
> days or forfeiting my remaining lifespan paying every future 
farthing to
> someone who can barely spell the word "lawsuit."
> 
> Insurance - hedging one's bets - it's all the same thing: a little 
cost in
> and a lifetime of misery prevented.
> 
> Acting as though global warming is a reality is no different than
> insurance - a "little" cost in and future lifetimes of misery 
prevented. One
> can start with conservative employment calculations that 2.5 jobs 
are
> created in efficiency industries compared to 1 in new power 
generation.
> 
> I'll let the financial wizards in the group begin to extrapolate 
other
> percs, like how tax revenues, subsidy payment decreases, cleanup 
costs not
> expended, medical costs preserved and thousands of other savings 
all add up
> and are compounded anually throughout the remainder of history - 
not a half
> bad insurance policy, and pretty low premiums compared to other
> inevitabilities and possibilities.
> 
> I've said it for a decade, energy efficiency and renewables will be 
the fuel
> for this country's next economy. The Pentium & .com craze usurped 
it for a
> bit and George Dubya will slow its arrival date a bit more. But
> none-the-less, it's inevitable.
> 
> Sadly, energy is an ever-in-demand consumable.
> 
> As for those $7,200 in premiums I've paid? At 10% compounded 
annually,
> they've netted someone about $30,000 to date - minus one windscreen 
and a
> tow. Not a bad gamble on the insurance company's part, whose 
profits will
> continue to grow, no matter if I drop dead tomorrow and never pay 
in another
> schilling (about $324,000 in profit 24 years from now).
> 
> Not that I believe it untrue for a minute, but from a capitalist's
> perspective, it doesn't matter if Global Warming is real or not. 
Investing
> as though it is will yield more profit and security than pretending 
it is
> not.
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> Appal Energy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[biofuels-biz] Polish manufacturer....

[Jan Sur—wka]

Hi Dave,

I have the contact data of the batch technology provider and several producers 
of the equipment.

The batch installation is for producing methyl esters from rapeseed oil.
The capacity (thruput) is 400 litres/day  (little more than 100 gallons/day).

I do not know their hourly capacity.

Dave where are you ?

jan sur—wka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[biofuels-biz] Re: free links

[david_design]

Used oil ester is always darker than new oil ester. But perhaps this 
explains why my acid-base batch gave poor miles per gallon. I used 
loads of methanol, but it was a dark colour. Maybe I did not use 
enough base catalyst.

Or maybe I over-did the acid stage. Does anybody have any timings for 
the acid stage based on feedstock titrations. Last time we discussed, 
Alex had not had any oils of various quality to test.

Dave

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >You could test for specific gravity (use a hydrometer)
> >, viscosity, gel points (temp at which it starts to
> >solidify),  or flash points.
> >
> >All of these need to be (about) right for an effective
> >fuel, and are easy to test for. I got a catalogue for
> >a schools chemistry supplier - they have all sorts of
> >cheap(ish) meters - tho we haven't tried em yet -
> >they're called Philip Harris and the phone no. is 0870
> >6000193 (UK only ). If you say your'e a school they'll
> >sell you chemicals (yuk yuk)
> >
> >john
> 
> Aleks lists a few useful tests, here, see "Quality":
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html
> 
> Also this, from Aleks:
> 
> There is a rule of thumb: the brighter yellow in color, the better
> the crack. As a standard you should take virgin sunflower oil yellow
> color in see through sunlight. (it's a sort of colourometry)Then 
take
> a glass jar of the stuff and place it in front of a white wall in 
the
> evening. When seen in reflected light of a tungsten bulb it should
> not change to orange (a very simple case of absorbtion 
spectrometry).
> 
> 1.Nicely cracked bio : very pale yellow (less than virgin sunflower
> oil) and no change in color with artificial lighting
> 2.Acceptable bio : yellow like virgin sunflower oil or straw, but 
will
> get orangy undertone in reflected tungsten light
> 3.Deeper color diesel has a lot of glyc in it in form of various
> glycerids. Not good for standard engines.
> 
> Remedy: If the diesel is too dark and you are sure that you used the
> correct quantitie(s) of catayst(s), add a pinch more of alcohol. Can
> be that you are loosing it due to evaporation. (it's getting quite
> hot in Slovenija)
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith Addison


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[biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...

[david_design]

Do you have contact details for the Polish equipment supplier and do 
you know what their output is per hour? 

Dave

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jan,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply.  Did not see your question at the bottom 
before.
> Since we produce biodiesel from different "oil" sources, these 
differences
> could give different properties.  Like coconut has better wintering
> properties.  Our vegetable oil here is mainly from coconut so thats 
it.  If
> we(all of us) produce biodiesel to an economical quantity(maybe 
more than
> what you can sell or use) then we can trade it like a commodity 
where it is
> needed.  Just a though.
> 
> Ken C.
> 
> At 07:32 PM 6/5/01 +0200, you wrote:
> >Hi to all,
> >
> >Question to Dick Carlstein:
> >
> >You deliver two plants for 800 litres of BD per day, do you ?
> >
> >1)   What are the initial costs per plant ?
> > I have here the offer from Polish producer (for rapeseed oil
> esterification) for the batch 
> > 400litres/day at say US $ 11,000 (eleven thousand dollars).
> >
> >2)   What are the running costs:
> > - sunflower oil  (Poland rapeseed oil is about US $ 
700/tonne - derived
> from the prices of
> > rapeseed)
> > - methanol ??? (or ethanol), Poland:  791 $/tonne (0,76 
kg/liter is the
> density of methanol,  
> > ethanol: 4cents/liter)
> > -  KOH ??? (Poland  19-to 21 $/25 kg )
> > - electricity ??? (Poland 5cents/kWhr)
> >
> >3.   What are the revenue sources and their prices?
> > - biodiesel   (Poland - nobody knows yet,  Petrol diesel cost 
US $
> 440/tonne is the wholesale
> > price),
> > - glycerine  (Poland - I do not know yet
> > - leftovers from rapeseed sold to farmers as fodder  ??? do 
not know yet
> >   (applies only when the BD producers gets rapeseed as the 
raw material)
> >
> >One very important remark:  One can buy rapeseed and other oils at 
the
> agrarian stock exchange 
> >in Rotterdam for example.
> >Prices are (more or less)
> >rapeseed oil 400 to 430 Euro/tonne  (three months delivery)
> >coconut oil  355 Euro/tonne
> >sunflower oil :  
> >
> >Other remark:
> >
> >>From my rough analysis  (I am doing it for my to-be installation) 
it goes
> that the most important 
> >factor for BD production to be profitable is  ( I want to sell it 
for
> profit) :
> >
> >the cost of getting oil  whatever it is  (sunflower, rapeseed or 
coconut
> etc.)
> >
> >In case of my country this price or cost of oil should not exceed 
US$
> 400/tonne.
> >
> >Any comments 
> >
> >Last question to Ken:
> >
> >What do you mean by economic quantity of biodiesel ???
> >
> >
> >jan sur—wka
> >to-be producer and seller of rapeseed derived biodiesel
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >Biofuel at WebConX
> >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >
> > 
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> > 
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[biofuel] Alcohol from waste paper?

[F. Marc de Piolenc]

In translating and collating what I have in my library about hydrolyzing
wood cellulose to get fermentable sugars, it occurred to me that there
is a much better source of cellulose than wood, and that using it would
allow two birds to be killed with one stone.

I refer of course to waste paper. Most waste paper is newsprint, which
is short-fiber "mechanical" pulp made from ground wood. When repulped,
it has to be mixed with a large proportion of new fiber to make decent
paper because of the short fibers. It also contains a lot of lignin and
other unstable compounds, so that paper made from it is unstable as well
as weak. With mandatory recycling going into effect in many places, the
"price" of recycled newsprint is going negative in some areas - that is,
the pulp mills must be paid to take it. Other uses are being found for
it - mulching, insulation - but basically it goes begging.

Now imagine a paper-alcohol plant attached to a biodiesel plant. Not
only can the ethanol be used for biodiesel production, but the residue
still contains some lignin, which can give methanol on dry distillation.
The unfermentable sugars give furfural and other compounds useful in
organic synthesis.

Everybody wins: 

- community recycling projects can start getting paid again (and the
politicians who pushed through mandatory recycling without considering
the consequences can start breathing again).

- ethanol is produced without any impact on agricultural commodity
prices.


Best to all,
Marc de Piolenc



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[biofuels-biz] Re: Materials Conversion Table

[david_design]

Oil is about 850g per litre (similar to ester), but assume the same 
as water and you'll not go far wrong. Overloading is asking for 
trouble. Most collectors swap poly barrels full for empty. 

Dave

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "doctor who" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I believe it was to this list I posted the question about how much 
does a 5 
> gallon container of WVO weigh. These figures I needed for 
calculating the 
> size of the truck I would need to purchase to collect WVO from 
restaurant 
> sites.  
> Cheers,
> Cordain Lucas
> Dulles, VA
> 
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: the data for hydrogen using biodiesel installation....

[monteoro]

Hi all,

I think when you hydrogenate the glycerine, it becomes a wax.  Can someone
check on this. Anyone know where to get some hydrogen to test this?  

Ken C.


At 12:40 PM 6/19/01 +, you wrote:
>You are sort of right with your assumptions about feedstock 
>requirements. 
>You need: 
>  #  Vegetable oils or animal fats these can be new or waste products 
>from the food industry. New oils are easiest to work with but are 
>expensive.
>  #  Methanol about 12.5% of finished methyl ester is methanol. (not 
>technically correct but about right for financial budgeting.
>  #  KOH for new oil you will use about 7g per litre for waste oil 
>you will use more according to tests to confirm the free fatty acid 
>content.
>  #  Water to wash the settled ester
>  #  Small amount of acid to neutralise the ester before washing 
>(there are various ways of doing this to avoid forming a nasty 
>emulsion)
>
>I don't know what they use the hydrogen for unless it is to somehow 
>treat a byproduct.
>
>The byproducts are:
>  #  Crude glycerol which can be sold for distilling into high grade 
>glycerine.
>  #  Free fatty acids, these are the unreactable fats created when 
>oils are cooked. There are ways to process these into low grade fuels
>  #  If you use KOH and H2SO4 you will get potassium suphate. There 
>are various processes to dewater this for sale as fertiliser.
>
>This is all very well but you need to make sure you have a market for 
>the biodiesel and if using waste oils the FFA. Obviously no market = 
>no business. 
>
>I think you have to aim to sell your biodiesel at below the cost 
>charged for mineral diesel. This is great where the country's excise 
>tax is applied to petroleum fuels. It's not so good if they apply it 
>to "hydrocarbon fuels". 
>
>Also remember that DIN standard biodiesel will give about 5% fewer 
>miles per litre than most petroleum diesel fuels. Your price also 
>needs to account for this.
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jan Sur—wka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi, Mauro,
>> 
>> Thank you very much for your very comprehensive data.
>> I was discussing with the big fertilizer company that has all 
>necessary utilities just on-site.
>> They together with the German investor plan to construct 
>installation between 30,00 and 100,000 
>> tons/yr of biodiesel.
>> 
>> The plant will be using:
>> mehanol and KOH, hydrogen, rapeseed oil, water, steam and 
>electricity.
>> 
>> Since the fertilizer factory is producing also the so-called OXO 
>alcohols for which the methanol is 
>> the raw material the buy it in bulk quantities.
>> 
>> Their price  for methanol is $791/tonne ( as I was told) and this 
>price would very good bargain for 
>> them.  I observed the methanol price discussion and noted that 
>everywhere the price of methanol 
>> is higher than that.
>> 
>> The same applies to to KOH - also the prices are lower than normal 
>market prices - I do not know 
>> exactly figures
>> 
>> Details of technology based on hydrogen:  to tell you the truth I 
>do not know.
>> The only thing I know that this technology is probably developed by 
>a very good chemical Polish 
>> engineer (he is now a professor of applied chemistry).
>> The technology is claimed to be unique, low cost and excellent in 
>performance.
>> I will try to reach these secrets and will let you know.
>> 
>> The above opinions are no mine - I heard them from people working 
>at this fertilizer factory.
>> They have already tries produce biodiesel 10 years ago with 
>technological success and market 
>> disaster (nobody was interested at that time in biodiesel).
>> 
>> What I know about this technology is that:
>> - it will be using KOH and methanol
>> - it will be using hydrogen (for what I do not know),
>> - it will be using water and steam and power to run the equipment
>> - it will be producing: biodiesel, glycerine of pharmaceutical 
>(farmakopea as you put it) quality
>>  and probably some wastewater.
>> 
>> That is all for now...
>> 
>> jan
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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[biofuels-biz] Materials Conversion Table

[doctor who]

I believe it was to this list I posted the question about how much does a 5 
gallon container of WVO weigh. These figures I needed for calculating the 
size of the truck I would need to purchase to collect WVO from restaurant 
sites. Well in my research browsing I was able to find the data I needed as 
well as information for folks who may be collecting sawdust or newsprint or 
various other recylables for re-use.

The table is not suitable for cut and pasting to the list so if you are 
interested in just how much sawdust you can put into the back of your pickup 
before you break something, follow this link.Sorry this table is only 
available in american weight. Their are hundreds of conversion calculators 
out there however.

http://www.opala.org/matconv.html

Cheers,
Cordain Lucas
Dulles, VA

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Global Warming 101: was Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[Appal Energy]

This hotlink is for those who think that what I'm about to say is horse
muffins. It's a simple compound interest table. Oddly enough, this has
everything to do with biofuels.

http://www.cashflowzone.com/compound_interest.htm

Think about this for a minute. Assuming at worste that no one "knows" if
global warming is a reality effected by human pursuit (a bit unrealistic,
but none-the-less...), then the following analogy is perfectly accurate.

I figure that over the past 24 years, I have paid about $7,200 in auto
insurance. I haven't made but two claims but once during that period - a
broken windscreen and an emergency tow.

Funny, every time I get in a car, I don't really know for certain if I'll be
driving it home intact or not. I have for 24 years. But I might not.

Still, just in case, I pay the premium. And should I crumple someone else's
quarter panel or run over their prize winning gerbil (or worse), I needn't
worry considerably about being on a bread and water diet for the rest of my
days or forfeiting my remaining lifespan paying every future farthing to
someone who can barely spell the word "lawsuit."

Insurance - hedging one's bets - it's all the same thing: a little cost in
and a lifetime of misery prevented.

Acting as though global warming is a reality is no different than
insurance - a "little" cost in and future lifetimes of misery prevented. One
can start with conservative employment calculations that 2.5 jobs are
created in efficiency industries compared to 1 in new power generation.

I'll let the financial wizards in the group begin to extrapolate other
percs, like how tax revenues, subsidy payment decreases, cleanup costs not
expended, medical costs preserved and thousands of other savings all add up
and are compounded anually throughout the remainder of history - not a half
bad insurance policy, and pretty low premiums compared to other
inevitabilities and possibilities.

I've said it for a decade, energy efficiency and renewables will be the fuel
for this country's next economy. The Pentium & .com craze usurped it for a
bit and George Dubya will slow its arrival date a bit more. But
none-the-less, it's inevitable.

Sadly, energy is an ever-in-demand consumable.

As for those $7,200 in premiums I've paid? At 10% compounded annually,
they've netted someone about $30,000 to date - minus one windscreen and a
tow. Not a bad gamble on the insurance company's part, whose profits will
continue to grow, no matter if I drop dead tomorrow and never pay in another
schilling (about $324,000 in profit 24 years from now).

Not that I believe it untrue for a minute, but from a capitalist's
perspective, it doesn't matter if Global Warming is real or not. Investing
as though it is will yield more profit and security than pretending it is
not.

Todd Swearingen
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[Ed Beggs]

RE: "Reducing cancer risk by use of biodiesel" (climate change)

..also you are eliminating sulphur; reducing particulates substantially;
using a waste as a resource and/or supporting agriculture and new crops or
uses of crops that we might not always think of when we think of biodiesel,
(eg. Jatropha, Honge, nuts, algae); supporting local and regional economic
development via job creation and the retention of money within local
economies and thereby capturing multiplier effects; contributing to energy
independence;  reducing the need to cut and haul firewood (if  biodiesel
used for heating and light); allowing the ongoing use of existing diesels
and the large amounts of embodied energy contained in their blocks and parts
instead of scrapping prematurely because of an association with the
petrodiesel fuel used; reducing reliance on the long distance transportation
of energy and attendant risk of spills and soil and water contamination;
reducing the cost of maintenance of water treatment works and systems by
making a market for used veg. oil; reducing the likelihood and cost of
regional military conflict and interventons by creating more possibilities
for energy self-supply...and so on...

 The same sort case can be made for other renewable energies (especially
those that can be accomplished without undue reliance on capital or
technology and cn be accomplished on a small scale, duplicated many times in
many places), and conservation efforts.

If the need to combat climate change turns out to have been unnecessary,
(which at this point is doubtful, IMHO, considering that  among those most
concerned are the insurance companies, who have seen their claims rise
substantially from weather events wholly unanticipated by their actuaries,
and are thus keenly interested in understanding what has caused this and
what might happen next) , the need to make improvements in these other
environmental, social and economic ways is obvious.

Ed B.
www.biofuels.ca

> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:59:31 +0900
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change
> 
>> Shsh, how times do change! A few months back I posted a few
>> 
> 
> 


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Re: [biofuels-biz] key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...

[monteoro]

Jan,

Sorry for the late reply.  Did not see your question at the bottom before.
Since we produce biodiesel from different "oil" sources, these differences
could give different properties.  Like coconut has better wintering
properties.  Our vegetable oil here is mainly from coconut so thats it.  If
we(all of us) produce biodiesel to an economical quantity(maybe more than
what you can sell or use) then we can trade it like a commodity where it is
needed.  Just a though.

Ken C.

At 07:32 PM 6/5/01 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi to all,
>
>Question to Dick Carlstein:
>
>You deliver two plants for 800 litres of BD per day, do you ?
>
>1) What are the initial costs per plant ?
>   I have here the offer from Polish producer (for rapeseed oil
esterification) for the batch   
>   400litres/day at say US $ 11,000 (eleven thousand dollars).
>
>2) What are the running costs:
>   - sunflower oil  (Poland rapeseed oil is about US $ 700/tonne - derived
from the prices of  
>   rapeseed)
>   - methanol ??? (or ethanol), Poland:  791 $/tonne (0,76 kg/liter is the
density of methanol,
>   ethanol: 4cents/liter)
>   -  KOH ??? (Poland  19-to 21 $/25 kg )
>   - electricity ??? (Poland 5cents/kWhr)
>
>3. What are the revenue sources and their prices?
>   - biodiesel   (Poland - nobody knows yet,  Petrol diesel cost US $
440/tonne is the wholesale  
>   price),
>   - glycerine  (Poland - I do not know yet
>   - leftovers from rapeseed sold to farmers as fodder  ??? do not know yet
> (applies only when the BD producers gets rapeseed as the raw material)
>
>One very important remark:  One can buy rapeseed and other oils at the
agrarian stock exchange 
>in Rotterdam for example.
>Prices are (more or less)
>rapeseed oil 400 to 430 Euro/tonne  (three months delivery)
>coconut oil  355 Euro/tonne
>sunflower oil :  
>
>Other remark:
>
>>From my rough analysis  (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes
that the most important 
>factor for BD production to be profitable is  ( I want to sell it for
profit) :
>
>the cost of getting oil  whatever it is  (sunflower, rapeseed or coconut
etc.)
>
>In case of my country this price or cost of oil should not exceed US$
400/tonne.
>
>Any comments 
>
>Last question to Ken:
>
>What do you mean by economic quantity of biodiesel ???
>
>
>jan sur—wka
>to-be producer and seller of rapeseed derived biodiesel
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Biofuels at Journey to Forever
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
-
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Government "protections"

[Edward Beggs]

No.


- Original Message -
From: "Noel Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Government "protections"


> Greetings folks.
> Can one convert spent motor oil into diesel?
> ND
>
>
>
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>
>


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RE: [biofuel] me and my big mouth

[Paul Cooksley]

Good on you Ian, we all have our days (daze) it takes a human and a big 
person to recognise he put his foot in it, I only wish the corporate 
animals and their vested interests would see things our way, it isn't about 
the money for any of us it is about reducing our footprint on the planet, I 
gave up driving a petrol engine car 2 years ago, and have been relying on 
pushbike and buses to commute ever since, I still do own a car and a big 
one at that after all this is Australia and you do need one from time to 
time, but my plan if for a better word right now is to replace the 3L 
petrol 6 with something diesel (Turbo) based, again why buy another car 
when all that is wrong with it is the type of engine in it so if anyone has 
gone along the same lines I am thinking about, I would be greatfull for any 
advise or pitfalls one might encounter, especially in gearing, I am 
mechanically minded just inexperienced with diesels, ashamidly I come from 
the petrol head mentallity.

cheers all and especially to Ian

-Original Message-
From:   Ian [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   Tuesday, 19 June 2001 10:51
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers

Hi all
Well, I certainly have some explaining to do.
I would like to apologise to all with my remarks in the 'smalltimer' thread
I fired up.
It was really stupid, for a start off, all of you who populate this list 
are
good law abiding citizens and I can honestly say the remarks I made were 
not
aimed towards any of you.
In a round about way I'm trying to protect anybody jumping on the biod
bandwagon and making a fast buck without looking much more carefully at the
legal and environmental issues of production, just making them think.
:)

Now, On my first initial batches, Ive skirted around giving proper answers
on this forum, for the very simple reason, I wasnt registered. I was 
running
scared.

I built my processor and started gleening knowledge before I got into the
legal side of things. BIG MISTAKE.
I shouldve sat down, gone through everything, done a few batches 
microscale.
Once happy with a microscale batch, get  registered  with customs & excise,
go on to produce a large scale usable batch.

I'm happy to say using both Aleks' 'Foolproof' method and his 2 stage
process which I prefer, I have produced some amazing fuel.
I can assure any of you readers who might be connected with C&E that no 
fuel
has seen the inners of any vehicle, heating aparatus , or diesel driven
machinery.
But I'm ready to.
In the meantime, whilst waiting for formalities to sort out, I'm finding
time to build some web pages with loads of info on my processor how to 
build
it, and other things that UK newcomers should be aware of.
I'm an honest bloke not out to rip anyone off, just want to do my bit for
the environment.
My apologies once again.
I will understand if you would all like me to leave the list, as I feel Ive
messed a lot of people around here.
Ian








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[biofuel] Alcohol from wood

[F. Marc de Piolenc]

Dear Listmates,

The recent discussion of wood hydrolysis reminded me that I had promised
to translate the relevant parts of Boullanger's treatise from French
into English; this I am finally doing.

I also found good information on saccharification in Haegglund's
treatise on wood chemistry. I will scan those pages, which are already
in English.

To whom should I send this stuff for archiving? I keep forgetting.

Best,
Marc de Piolenc
Iligan, Philippines



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RE: [biofuel] Re: Government "protections"

[Noel Davies]

Greetings folks.
Can one convert spent motor oil into diesel?
ND



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[biofuel] Fwd: Stirling Engines

[Warren Rekow]

>>>
Orgone Biophysical Research Lab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.orgonelab.org
Forwarded News Item

Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups

3)  Technology Development for Sustainable Energy Generation

 Stirling engines are external combustion engines that can use most any
fuel (including  biomass, solar, geothermal, fossil or anything that produces
heat), and can drive a generator for onsite electrical power. Stirling
engines are inherently efficient, since they use regenerators that recycle
heat back to the power stroke of its piston. The following article was
recently published on the developmental efforts of an early stage company
seeking to revolutionize the power industry with cost-effective onsite power
generation that could significantly reduce pollution entering our atmosphere.
Who needs nukes when you have innovative technologies dating back 200 years
waiting to be developed for today's energy and environmental standards.

=   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =

Athol company on cutting edge with 200-year-old engine concept
May 24, 2001 The Recorder, Greenfield, MA, page 1.

By RICHIE DAVIS
Recorder Staff

ATHOL -- Try to imagine an unlikely setting for a high-tech, energy-efficient
engine. You'd be hard-pressed to come up with anything that beats the old
vise factory here where Ricardo Conde and company are revving up their
Stirling engine prototype.

In fact, it's hard to imagine how the Stirling engine -- a nearly
200-year-old contraption that once powered tractors and fell into disuse when
the internal combustion engine came into vogue -- can be looked on as
innovative at all.

This is an EXTERNAL combustion engine, which Conde and other principals in
Stirling Advantage Inc. have rescued from the automotive uses that have
attracted most researchers over the years.

Instead, the 6-year-old company has been working on developing a Stirling
engine to generate 200-kilowatts of power for hospitals, hotels, factories
and similar uses. It produces both heat and electricity, can be fueled with
solar power, biomass, natural gas or other fuels and gives off low nitrous
emissions.

``We said, `Let's forget trying to make it fit under the hood of a car and
(instead) make it for what it's best suited,''' said Conde, who hopes to have
20 test model generators ready in about a year or two, if he can raise the
capital. So far, they've spent about $1 million researching and developing
the technology he sees as Stirling gold.

Conde is among the participants in this afternoon's renewable energy Tour de
Sol-related Green Futures workshops at Greenfield Community College. He is
the 40-year-old president and chief executive officer of Stirling Advantage.
With training at New York City Technical College, Brooklyn Polytechnic
Institute and Parsons School of Design, the New Salem resident has had a
lifelong interest in technology development and worked with Athol's
solar-power research octogenarian, Alvin Marks, before turning to optical
films and polarizers and ultimately the engine first invented in 1816 by
Scottish minister Robert Stirling.

Using a heat source external to the engine, his invention pushes a power
piston when hot air expands, not unlike the exploding gases inside a car
engine pushing a piston. The Stirling engine's 16 percent greater potential
efficiency -- allegedly the highest of any heat engine -- comes from using
heat exchangers to cool the hot expanded gas while retaining some of that
heat to power the next cycle. Those pushes of the piston are converted to
mechanical motion by rods and a flywheel, and eventually drive an electric
generator. The heat that is recovered in the cooling cycle then can be
recycled, to heat a building, for example. (In a car's internal combustion
engine much of that heat is simply wasted through hot exhaust and the
radiator.)

Stirling Advantage began focusing on the technology 3 years ago, after
consulting with a team of businesses trying to develop a 2-megawatt generator
for a building on New York's Times Square, Conde said.

The project proved too expensive, ``but we realized there were flaws in the
basic premise of using the technology,'' said Conde. By reworking a Swedish
military design, Conde was able to home in on a plan based on industrial
rather than automotive needs.

While other Stirling developers are busy working on solar-powered 25-kilowatt
generators that require a 35-foot dish to capture the sun's rays, the Athol
team is concentrating on a much larger generator that burns natural gas in
the United States and biomass in Third World countries. Biomass is fuel
derived from corn, wood or other crops, or from methane gases from landfills,
for example.

Using the power directly, along with heat, makes this technique much more
efficient, said Conde. Instead of driving up costs through transmission of
electricity from a central generating plant or storing the electricity
produced, Conde said, ``Our solution is just don't ge

Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[Warren Rekow]

Keith said:
>Looking at it another way, even if it turns out that human-caused CO2
>emissions have nothing or vanishingly little to do with climate and
>that there is no global warming, that it's all a
>myth/mistake/communist propaganda or whatever, moves to cut CO2
>emissions are generally beneficial. Replace dinodiesel with
>biodiesel, for instance, and you're cutting GG emissions, yes, but
>you're also reducing the cancer risk by more than 90%.

Keith, there is so much to like in your perspective. Action to 
improve energy efficiency and increase environmental awareness is all 
to the good. Yet, I still question the selling of global warming. In 
spite of what may appear to be good underlying intentions, promoting 
fear-based propaganda of any kind primarily serves to deceive, 
manipulate and blind others. Such is not the road to social, 
scientific or any other form of enlightenment, IMHO.

>Global warming
>or not, we - the industrialised countries and especially the US - are
>much too profligate with energy, especially fossil-fuel energy.
>Regardless of emissions, it's a non-renewable resource and we're
>wasting it. The climate change issue is doing more than anything else
>to counter that. Energy efficiency is a general good, and there's a
>hell of a lot of room for improvement.

I agree, but segregate energy efficiency from resource conservation 
or harmful emissions. It is largely off-topic for this list, but I 
look for the day when we make practical use of the zero-point energy. 
If this scenario becomes reality then it may be that energy 
efficiency becomes relatively moot due to this energy's massive, 
universal and non-polluting availability.

>But... But what exactly? What's the downside? What it'll cost the
>economy? Will it really? Will it cost as much as the Y2K bill? That
>didn't seem to wreck any economies that I noticed, everyone simply
>paid up for this gross bit of idiocy and we never heard any more
>about it. If it's a conspiracy it's a most strange one - where are
>the usual suspects? Not quite where you'd expect them to be. Who
>benefits, apart from everybody?

I don't know if global warming serves anyone's conspiracy. Potential 
grant recipients may seek to be paid from the public treasury, and 
organizations may seek additional revenue by promoting some aspect of 
the global warming concern, but being self-serving is not conspiracy 
unless there is a knowing attempt to defraud others. If extensive 
resources are being expended on a wrongly defined problem then those 
resources are likely being misdirected while genuine problems go 
wanting. A relative few may thus benefit, but certainly not everybody.
-- 
...Warren Rekow

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Re: [biofuel] Re: Government "protections"

[Bryan Fullerton]

OK while I believe there are certain truths in these "points of paranoia".
Dont miss the obvious that is happening in the western states right now. Why
do you think bush and his big oil politicians are pushing so hard for the
Electric rates to go up in California and other western states? Sure what
kind of money saveings will it be if you have to pay through the nose for
the electricity to recharge your electric vehicle?

-Bryan


- Original Message -
From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Government "protections"


> E.J. writes:
>
> >...Unfortunately, this gives the government a very powerful
> >argument for "protecting us from ourselves". They say it needs
> >doing because of the fools, therefore another reason for bigger,
> >and more inclusive government.  If this keeps up at the rate
> >it has been going, we will have NO personal freedoms left.
>
> Anyone care to lay odds that driving on (maybe even MAKING)
> homemade biodiesel will be made illegal by the U.S. gummint,
> in the name of protecting the environment.  Actually of course, it
> will be to protect their big oil buddies who might actually lose a
> coupla bucks   -K
>
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>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Fish oil

[Biofuels]

Fish oil stinks when it is fresh.
It stinks when it is not fresh.
It stinks when you burn it straight.
It stinks when you esterify it.
It stinks when you burn the resultant polymer.
Apart from that, it's not too bad.


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Re: [biofuel] Fish oil

[Biofuels]

Let me spell it out.
Transesterification can be carried out on fish oil, the same as vegetable
oil or animal fats.
However, because of enormous long molecular chains, the result is a
polymerised goo.
It is not a pretty sight.
It is not an easy mess to clear out, as it sets semi-hard.
It stinks to high heaven.
I do not recommend the process to anyone other than dedicated masochists and
people I take a dislike to!


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Government "protections"

[mbstartech]

Very good point-one I hadn't even considered.  Bush' oil buddies wouldn't
like conservation-oops, I meant competition...

E.J.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:50:51 -0700 Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
E.J. writes:

>...Unfortunately, this gives the government a very powerful
>argument for "protecting us from ourselves". They say it needs
>doing because of the fools, therefore another reason for bigger,
>and more inclusive government.  If this keeps up at the rate
>it has been going, we will have NO personal freedoms left.

Anyone care to lay odds that driving on (maybe even MAKING)
homemade biodiesel will be made illegal by the U.S. gummint,
in the name of protecting the environment.  Actually of course, it
will be to protect their big oil buddies who might actually lose a
coupla bucks   -K


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers

[wljohnson]

Ian, I think you brought up some interesting points. Although I have made
some small batches of Bio-d, I have often wondered what would I do with all
of the glycerin and wash water when I began making larger batches. When you
start making 100 gallons or more bio-d, it is no longer feasible to dump
the excess out back. So careful consideration will have to be made about
how to deal with the waste product.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil

[doctor who]

http://www.globefish.org/publications/commodityupdate/200010/200010.htm

enjoy,
cordain
dulles, va

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:15:12 -

Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil.
Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil.
Jonathan


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_
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Re: [biofuel] Tom who?

[steve spence]

http://www.woodgas.com/biodies.htm

Steve Spence
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message -
From: "Christopher S. Weller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:13 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Tom who?


>   Keith Addison wrote
>   "But there are good resources for them now, if they go to the right
>   places they won't go far wrong. When we first made biodiesel about
>   all we had to go on was one and a half pages by Tom Reed (which got
>   us there, us and many others). Things are rather different these days."
>
>   Okay still playing ketchup to the rest of ya'll
>   Who is Tom Reed and where can I find this page and a half
>
>
>   Big City Boy trying to get back to the basic with an 8 year looking over
my shoulder telling me what to do
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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RE: [biofuel] Fish oil

[doctor who]

Just out of curiosity does fish oil stink when it's burned? I could see 
sitting behind a truck in traffic the smells like french frys or donuts but 
fish yu...a trail of cats wherever you go. Maybe a market for the animal 
control vehicles.

cheers,
cordain
dulles, va.

From: Mike Brownstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Fish oil
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:49:24 +0200

Are you saying that there is no substantial difference in processing fish
oil versus the other types ( veggie and lard )?

My supply of oil is dark brown and liquid.  It comes from the sludge at the
bottom of fish oil container tanks(no water). There are no solids in it.  I
have not noticed any congealing.

My cats going crazy!!

Could you give me more detail?

Mike

 > -Original Message-
 > From: Biofuels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:08 PM
 > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
 > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fish oil
 >
 >
 > Been there, done it, got the polymerised t-shirt!
 > Advice - don't try too much at one time and pour the polymers out of the
 > mixing tank before they congeal.
 > Or have lots of hot water handy and somewhere remote from felines
 > to dispose
 > of.
 >
 >
 > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
 > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 >
 >


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RE: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil

[Mike Brownstone]

Sure!! $250.00/metric ton (RSA)

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:15 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil
>
>
> Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil.
> Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil.
> Jonathan
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil

[Harmon Seaver]

  With all the commercial fisheries (and fishermen) going tits up, I
don't know if you can really consider fish oil "renewable".  I'd be amazed
if it stayed cheap for long, since there are strong indications that
overfishing of the oil species are part of the problem for the other
fisheries, i.e., those which eat the oil fishes like menhaden and anchovy,
and so regulation will probably hit them quite hard next.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil.
> Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil.
> Jonathan

--
Harmon Seaver, MLIS
CyberShamanix
Work 920-203-9633   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[biofuel] Re: Fish oil

[ratchelali]

Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil.
Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil.
Jonathan


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Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...

[Dick Carlstein]

answer in your em :

Sent: Martes 19 de Junio de 2001 09:25
Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating
costs...


> So still looking stupid at this end :)...

i had to learn, just like you. i don't consider that makes me stupid !!!
just curious, what  ???

> We are talking about nine thousand, one hundred dollars (US) for an
> 800 litre processor.

yup. faf. that means delivered in buenos aires, argentina. tech transfer and
joint ventures are a possibility. it would help if you told me whereabouts
you are located. we're negotiating joint ventures in several locations.

>  #  What does this price include?

the plant, faf,  plus instalation and start-up. travel to final destination,
and per diem extra. client provides 220 vac - 15 hp / compressed air /
methanol-vegetable oil-glicerol-biodiesel storage. (optional 3 x 380 vac).

>  #  How many batches can it make per day?

two 400 liter batches is nominal capacity. each batch takes ~ 2 hrs.

> #  Could the output be increased by pumping the reacted contents
> into a separate settling tank(s)?

yes, roughly 50 % capacity increase for each 400 liter settling tank. we
don't recommend more than four settling tanks. each settling tank must have
it's own electrical, pressure and vacuum connections. settling tanks are u$s
3'900.00 each.

> Sorry it looks terse but it's easier to read like that!

i'd call it concise. cheers, dick.


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RE: [biofuel] Fish oil

[Mike Brownstone]

Are you saying that there is no substantial difference in processing fish
oil versus the other types ( veggie and lard )?

My supply of oil is dark brown and liquid.  It comes from the sludge at the
bottom of fish oil container tanks(no water). There are no solids in it.  I
have not noticed any congealing.

My cats going crazy!!

Could you give me more detail?

Mike

> -Original Message-
> From: Biofuels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:08 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fish oil
>
>
> Been there, done it, got the polymerised t-shirt!
> Advice - don't try too much at one time and pour the polymers out of the
> mixing tank before they congeal.
> Or have lots of hot water handy and somewhere remote from felines
> to dispose
> of.
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[Keith Addison]

>Shsh, how times do change! A few months back I posted a few
>questions on this list regarding the "selling" of global warming. The
>true believers on this list responded by giving me a beating,
>virtually speaking, for daring to question such 'Scientific Truth'.
>Now it appears that heretics are dominating this list. Most amusing,
>indeed.  ;-)
>--
>...Warren Rekow

You think they're dominating? I'd put it about even, currently, with 
a few voices yet to be heard.

Looking at it another way, even if it turns out that human-caused CO2 
emissions have nothing or vanishingly little to do with climate and 
that there is no global warming, that it's all a 
myth/mistake/communist propaganda or whatever, moves to cut CO2 
emissions are generally beneficial. Replace dinodiesel with 
biodiesel, for instance, and you're cutting GG emissions, yes, but 
you're also reducing the cancer risk by more than 90%. Global warming 
or not, we - the industrialised countries and especially the US - are 
much too profligate with energy, especially fossil-fuel energy. 
Regardless of emissions, it's a non-renewable resource and we're 
wasting it. The climate change issue is doing more than anything else 
to counter that. Energy efficiency is a general good, and there's a 
hell of a lot of room for improvement. There are spin-offs too. 
Someone who pays attention to energy efficiency and avoids fossil 
fuels where possible will almost certainly leave a generally smaller 
eco-footprint, and might get active in other areas as well, such as 
Kirk's concern for water quality. Same goes for all the scientific 
attention being focused on the climate, and thus on the biosphere and 
the environment and our role in it. About time, maybe.

But... But what exactly? What's the downside? What it'll cost the 
economy? Will it really? Will it cost as much as the Y2K bill? That 
didn't seem to wreck any economies that I noticed, everyone simply 
paid up for this gross bit of idiocy and we never heard any more 
about it. If it's a conspiracy it's a most strange one - where are 
the usual suspects? Not quite where you'd expect them to be. Who 
benefits, apart from everybody?

Anyone heard any views from Tuvalu or the Maldives recently? Hey, I 
haven't heard anything much from the Maldives for years, last I heard 
concerned the departure from a particular Maldive of an extremely 
pissed off German murderer. He'd killed someone there and they didn't 
quite know what to do about it, they're not used to murderers. So 
they "punished" him by putting him on this little island, I think 
just him and a guard or two. But the only little islands they have to 
spare are more like tropical paradises than Alcatraz. So there he sat 
on his tropical paradise, what everyone dreams of, not doing a lot of 
suffering. Then some do-gooder civil rights group back home in 
Germany got to hear of the barbaric plight the poor man was being 
subjected to and, for all his cries of "No! No! Let me suffer, I 
deserve it!" they managed to get him repatriated to Germany, to a 
German jail, where he probably still languishes. Well, maybe the 
island's sinking, maybe they saved his life. Or maybe not.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [biofuels-biz] Standards - was Re: [biofuel] The importance of proper filtering

[Keith Addison]

>I don't know... "Petrol", "gasoline" and ethanol make no mention of
>the engine type they are used in. Also the name "diesel" suggests we
>are connected with the dirty stuff provided by the petrochem
>industry.

Petrol and gasoline are not trying to establish themselves in a tough 
market, as is biodiesel. Adding the "bio" to diesel tends to 
dissociate it from the petrocorps and give it a quite different 
connotation, not dirty. Why be shy about the word diesel when you're 
going to have to explain it in the next breath anyway? And I don't 
think we should be shy of diesels, we should be proud of what we do 
with our diesels, we've got the best answer going.

>If we dump the name "diesel" perhaps we also dump all it's dirty
>associations.

I don't think "biodiesel" does have dirty associations. I don't think 
diesel does either, except in the US - everyone else is promoting 
diesels because they cut CO2, and they're clean enough these days 
anyway, very clean indeed once you dump the fuel. See, for instance:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/27/business/27DIES.html
It Gets 78 Miles a Gallon, but U.S. Snubs Diesel

Anyway, you're proposing that all the really hard work done by so 
many people to publicise biodiesel should be abandoned because of a 
few confused countries in SE Asia - nor would it necessarily solve 
the problem in SE Asia, quite possibly just add to the confusion.

>The Germans call it FAME or Diester. We can finds ways to knock those
>names but at least they don't try to associate with the dirty petro
>stuff.

No need to find ways to knock them, they're meaningless, nobody knows 
what they are, they're not names that associate with anything, won't 
stick easily in the public mind. All the other names are similarly 
meaningless, only biodiesel explains itself. Try it on a reporter. 
What's FAME? he'll say. Fatty Acid Methyl Esters. Uh-huh. You'll 
never get either of them in a headline, that's for sure. Why create 
extra problems which the existing term doesn't have?

Best

Keith Addison

>D
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >I think we need to reconsider the fuel's name. The term "biodiesel"
> > >means methyl ester (to us), but to almost anybody else it simply
> > >means a fuel with a biological content. We could start calling the
> > >stuff we make "methyl ester", but that's not the whole solution
> > >maybe "bioester" is better as it would also support ethyl ester.
> >
> > But it would take us away from "diesel", which would be a great
>loss.
> > Nobody knows what "ester" means - ethyl ester sounds like a 50s
>movie
> > star, and methyl ester like the old soak she became by the 90s.
> > Biodiesel is a good term. I think the best solution, if there is
>one,
> > is to promote real biodiesel, as opposed to SVO - straight veggie
>oil
> > - in the SE Asian region. There are people in Thailand making
> > biodiesel and planning to go commercial if they can. Here's a
>message
> > from one such:
> >
> > From: "kesara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thai king promotes home-grown green palm
>fuels
> > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:37:04 +0700
> >
> > Hi! Keith,
> > Thanks for your concern. We are trying to set our plant very soon if
> > possible. Many people are interested in our project. Seems like we
>are the
> > first group in our country to be able to transesterify  coconut oil
>in a
> > large batch. They came to us with some promises to help us set up
>the plant
> > however we haven't gone to that point yet. Any way we still plan to
>set it
> > up in our home first. We may face some problems from the law about
>BD
> > distribution.
> > Could you let us know how the biofuel-biz group can help to set up
>the
> > project?
> > Thanks.
> > Kesara
> >
> > All best
> >
> > Keith Addison


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Re: [biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers

[Keith Addison]

Hi Ian

Wow, that's quite a chunk of humble pie you just ate! Too much, IMHO 
- it's called a learning curve, eh? And we can all learn from that.

So, thanks Ian, please stick around, and looking forward to seeing 
your new web pages.

Best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>Hi all
>Well, I certainly have some explaining to do.
>I would like to apologise to all with my remarks in the 'smalltimer' thread
>I fired up.
>It was really stupid, for a start off, all of you who populate this list are
>good law abiding citizens and I can honestly say the remarks I made were not
>aimed towards any of you.
>In a round about way I'm trying to protect anybody jumping on the biod
>bandwagon and making a fast buck without looking much more carefully at the
>legal and environmental issues of production, just making them think.
>:)
>
>Now, On my first initial batches, Ive skirted around giving proper answers
>on this forum, for the very simple reason, I wasnt registered. I was running
>scared.
>
>I built my processor and started gleening knowledge before I got into the
>legal side of things. BIG MISTAKE.
>I shouldve sat down, gone through everything, done a few batches microscale.
>Once happy with a microscale batch, get  registered  with customs & excise,
>go on to produce a large scale usable batch.
>
>I'm happy to say using both Aleks' 'Foolproof' method and his 2 stage
>process which I prefer, I have produced some amazing fuel.
>I can assure any of you readers who might be connected with C&E that no fuel
>has seen the inners of any vehicle, heating aparatus , or diesel driven
>machinery.
>But I'm ready to.
>In the meantime, whilst waiting for formalities to sort out, I'm finding
>time to build some web pages with loads of info on my processor how to build
>it, and other things that UK newcomers should be aware of.
>I'm an honest bloke not out to rip anyone off, just want to do my bit for
>the environment.
>My apologies once again.
>I will understand if you would all like me to leave the list, as I feel Ive
>messed a lot of people around here.
>Ian


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[biofuel] Re: Government "protections"

[Ken Provost]

E.J. writes:

>...Unfortunately, this gives the government a very powerful
>argument for "protecting us from ourselves". They say it needs
>doing because of the fools, therefore another reason for bigger,
>and more inclusive government.  If this keeps up at the rate
>it has been going, we will have NO personal freedoms left.

Anyone care to lay odds that driving on (maybe even MAKING)
homemade biodiesel will be made illegal by the U.S. gummint,
in the name of protecting the environment.  Actually of course, it
will be to protect their big oil buddies who might actually lose a
coupla bucks   -K

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[biofuels-biz] cost of WVO

[john hornig]

The bog standard fee which is charged for picking up
WVO from a restaurant is £1 per 25 litre can. 
Get your local community recyclers involved - they've
got the transport / infrastructure / links with the
council. 

Having a new material they can recycle gives them
kudos, and gives them a better chance of collecting
all the other recyclables from a restaurant.

John (community recycler)

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Re: [biofuel] Fish oil

[Biofuels]

Been there, done it, got the polymerised t-shirt!
Advice - don't try too much at one time and pour the polymers out of the
mixing tank before they congeal.
Or have lots of hot water handy and somewhere remote from felines to dispose
of.


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Re: [biofuel] me and my big mouth re: smalltimers

[Biofuels]

Ian, nobody took you that seriously - keep us posted and contact me direst
if you have any problems (legal!) with C&E
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[biofuel] Caustic soda in the UK

[simon wells]

Hi

Sorry to be short, but you can't have looked far.  I've yet to find a DIY
sorry in the UK that doesn't stock it.  "Mangers" is the most common brand.

Simon


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[Warren Rekow]

Shsh, how times do change! A few months back I posted a few 
questions on this list regarding the "selling" of global warming. The 
true believers on this list responded by giving me a beating, 
virtually speaking, for daring to question such 'Scientific Truth'. 
Now it appears that heretics are dominating this list. Most amusing, 
indeed.  ;-)
-- 
...Warren Rekow

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RE: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource

[kirk]

Nice link. People using gensets made with auto alternators can benefit from
this one.

For windpower you need to engineer a "cut in" speed as well since rotation
is very variable.
Also starting torque is larger if energised. If you want power in light air
movement modulation of field is also necessary -- otherwise cut in speed is
40 watts steady state. That can be greatly reduced with the difference
available for battery charging instead of used by alternator excitation.
If building a system larger than 1/2 kilowatt use higher voltage than 12.
48v has some nice compromises although to avoid regulation and interference
from gvt. types you can't go that high.
I think regulatory agencies get involved above 24 volts. I'll have to look
it up unless someone has the number handy.

Kirk

-Original Message-
From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:42 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource


check out the aftermarket regulators at http://www.amplepower.com

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
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- Original Message -
From: "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:19 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource


> I think all the external regulator alternators were less than 60 amperes
> max.
> They are useable within that limitation.
> Kirk
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Christopher S. Weller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 8:11 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [biofuel] Automotive Alternator as a Windpower Resource
>
>
> Sorry I'm behind in my reading
> "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> "OK. Have to finish my paper "Automotive Alternator as a Windpower
Resource"
> first.Auto alternator will work well if you replace the regulator and
place
> diodes
> external to unit."
>
> If you are going to remove the voltage regulator why not just use a ford
> alternator (gen) and not add the volt regulator
>
> Chris
> PS i would like to read the paper if at all possible
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>
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>


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Re: [biofuels-biz] Ethanol from cellulose

[Keith Addison]

>Iogen press releases say they've just finished a 100 tonne (per day I
>think) "pilot" plant in Canada. They must be fairly confident.
>
>They say the cellulose enzyme process is econmic compared to the acid
>process developed by some US universities. Their planned feedstock is
>straw from the wheat praries, but it could be anything containing
>cellulose - waste timber, waste paper, etc.
>
>Dave

Yes, they all seem to say something like that, Iogen's been saying it 
awhile (at least a year now that I know of). The acid hydrolysis 
process is very old, I don't think it was developed by US 
universities. You should read the overview at the link I posted:

> > "Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review", Environment Canada 1999 
>--> good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer.
> > http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html

Keith Addison

>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> > >As for ethanol look at www.iogen.ca. They have a commercial enzyme
> > >process that converts cellulose from timber straw and waste
> > >paper/card into ethanol. I have no idea if it's cheaper after
>excise
> > >tax than dino fuel, but it's certainly clean and renewable.
> >
> > Iogen and others, but I'd say it's not there yet - and it's been a
> > long time coming. Here's a rundown on it from Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html
> >
> > Ethanol from cellulose
> >
> > "Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review", Environment Canada 1999 --
>
> > good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer.
> > http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html
> >
> > Fuel From Sawdust -- by Mike Brown (from Acres, USA, 19 June 1983):
> > Conversion of cellulose, such as sawdust, cornstalks, newspaper and
> > other substances, to alcohol -- "a fairly uncomplicated and
> > straightforward process". Biofuels Library.
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
> >
> > Arkenol Inc. is a pioneer in processing cellulose biomas into
> > ethanol: agricultural wastes, straw, leaves, grass clippings,
>sawdust
> > or old newspapers. The company uses proprietary concentrated acid
> > hydrolysis technology and is in the final development stages for a
>48
> > million litre per year biorefinery in Sacramento, California
> > processing rice straw.
> > http://www.arkenol.com
> >
> > The Iogen Corporation of Canada is "the leader in developing and
> > manufacturing ethanol-from-cellulose". The Iogen process is an
> > enzymatic hydrolysis process for converting lignocellulosics to
> > ethanol -- uses steam explosion pretreatment pioneered by the
>company
> > and Iogen's proprietary enzymes.
> > http://www.iogen.ca/fuels.htm
> >
> > BC International Corporation uses a genetically modified organism
>to
> > produce ethanol from biomass wastes such as agricultural residues,
> > municipal waste, and forest thinnings. Two-stage dilute acid
> > hydrolysis process for the preparation of the sugar streams and two
> > separate fermentations although both use the same organism.
> > http://www.bcintlcorp.com/
> >
> > "Ethanol Production in Hawaii", a "pre-feasibility" study who a
>focus
> > on ethanol from cellulose. Includes comparison of the different
> > processes: simultaneous saccharification and fermentation;
> > concentrated acid hydrolysis, neutralization and fermentation;
> > ammonia disruption, hydrolysis and fermentation; steam disruption,
> > hydrolysis and fermentation; acid disruption and transgenic
> > microorganism fermentation; concentrated acid hydrolysis, acid
> > recycle and fermentation; and acidified acetone extraction,
> > hydrolysis and fermentation.
> > http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/ethanol/ethano94.html
> > Good list of references:
> > http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/ethanol/refs.html
> >
> > Also:
> > Genencore & DOE Move Closer to Fuel Ethanol from Biomass Cellulose -
>
> > See: Biomass Conversion with Enzymes:
> > http://www.newuses.org/EG/EG-23/23genetic.html
> >
> >
> > Keith Addison
> >
> > >With dino at current prices, the fuel excise tax system has to
>favour
> > >non-petroleum fuels.
> > >
> > >Dave


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[biofuel] Fish oil

[Mike Brownstone]

Has anyone used fish oils for the production of biodiesel?

Would the standard procedures work or does fish oil present a problem?

Mike


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